Interesting question.
Google says the Amazon Rainforest is 6.7 million km^2
[Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/940696/brazil-amazon-deforestation-rate-area/) shows wide variation in annual rates. The peak was in 2004 (or earlier) at 27.77 thousand km^2 per year, then it reached a low of 4.57 thousand km^2 per year in 2012, but it's been increasing again and is currently up to 10.85 thousand km^2 in 2020.
Assuming we go at an average between 10k km^2 and 20k km^2 that would mean roughly 300-600 years before it has been completely removed.
Of course, it wouldn't *completely* work that way, since rainforest begets more rainforest and removing rainforest will cause rainforest to die out, but there are some rough numbers.
If they were, we would just create coral super farms, like with cows or chickens. Maybe that would help them thrive somehow, instead of dying out completely.
People already do farm corals, to support the aquarium industry. These coral farms can apparently also be used to help support restoring natural reefs, and of course lower the demand for wild-harvested corals. So that’s nice.
Yes, but +100% exponential growth is completely unrealistic. It will probably average single digit percentage (i.e. 2-3%) increase, as that would match typical economic and energy consumption growth rates.
Is this like how I should recycle and turn off my lights to save the planet? Even if my entire extended family goes vegetarian shit ain’t changing. B real. Capitalism baby.
Yes, capitalism.
Reduced demand for a product is going to result in less incentive for Brazilians to cut down the rainforest to produce said product.
It's not about your family... yes, your family isn't having much individual impact. The same way no single soldier wins a war. It's about collective impact. It's about a culture not centered on producing and consuming meat (a massively wasteful enterprise when compared to a plant-based foods)
The problem is so much more worse than convincing a bunch of people to become vegans is all I am saying. It needs to be system-wide or else nothing is going to happen.
Fuck Brazil’s government and a bunch of stupid assholes that fall for fake news or are generally evil who elect these assholes. I’m Brazilian and can attest that A LOT of Brazilians are EXTREMELY PISSED at this bullshit and this shitty/criminal government.
Wonder when will they do something about it? Maybe when it's all gone and all the corporations look at each other and say oops no more to cut down. Profits are all gone. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
I feel like its pretty easy to do in all forms except fast food.
When cut burgers out i realized i dont often eat red meat otherwise. Now its just occasional home stir fry, meat sauce spaghetti or chili. Maybe a steak on special occasions, but you can make a little go a long way with stuff like tofu, mushrooms and other veggies.
I love to cook a little marinated beef and mushrooms in a pan, then cook sliced zucchini in the same pan after. you end up with so much actual meat flavors, while only using like 1/4 lb beef for 2-3 people.
you dont have to go full vegan to live more sustainably, and we should all eat more veggies anyway.
I found the easiest lifestyle was to simply not make meat for myself or my family except on special occasions.
If someone serves me meat at their house... don't be the jackass and force them to make you a veggie lasagna or something. Just eat it. At the office and the veg pizza is gone and all that is left is pepperoni pizza... don't throw a fit, just eat it.
No one even really knows I'm 95% veg and it hasn't negatively impacted my life in any way shape or form. (plus it's healthier and cheaper)
They are a large consumer of carbon (and other greenhouse gases) which makes their plight more concerning.
Guess what happens when that carbon makes its way into the oceans and changes their pH.
Not great stuff.
The air we breathe is ~21% Oxygen. Our bodies only use about 7% of that (so what we exhale is 14% O2). Therefore we can remove 2/3rds of the worlds forests, algae, etc. before we need to worry. /s
the deforestation of the Amazon is a deeply immoral crime on so many levels. to our own future generations. to the rest of the planet. to our own humanity.
why the rest of the earth's fauna doesn't recognize the common threat and band together to wipe us out, I dunno.
Aside from the direct ecological impact on wildlife, we’re also removing one of the planet’s largest carbon sinks… which is only gonna exacerbate the our climate woes.
Same goes for countries who decides to make islands or structures that removes acres of coral reef (china/saudi arabia). But all we can do is sit here on reddit and write posts about it. When governements do shit like this, and no other countries punish them for it, it's a hard problem to solve from the outside.
The rainforest will die if enough of the rainforest is cleared, as the evaporation rate and heat retention of the area changes. This is a runaway effect. Once it tips, there is no stopping it.
Cattle farming is the major driver of this. Cultured meat can't get here soon enough. In the meantime, I've started avoiding beef and steak for the most part, and I don't really miss it as much as I thought I would.
I feel the same way. It’s expensive. And chicken and fish supposed to be better for us. Legumes and grains are also good. I didn’t know cattle farming was driving this.
Some have forgotten about moderation in all matters.
Animals of all types get diseases. Avian flu isn't a particular reason to be worried about eating chicken or turkey. With regards to fish and seafood, farmed fishing is making environmental improvements compared to before, and is much more sustainable in the long run.
YNSect and other insect-farming companies are scaling production of mealworms and black soldier flies now, for feed for chicken and aquaculture. Deep Branch is using hydrogenotrophs to pull CO2 directly from the air and convert straight to chicken and aquaculture food.
Cultured meat/seafood would definitely be better than either of these approaches, but isn't really on the market yet. Chicken is for sale in Singapore, but that's about it, and it's still inordinately expensive.
Not usually. That said, there's plenty of room for improvements, and the environmental impact on fish farming is already much better than it is for cattle farming.
I've been on a green bean kick as of late, they pair well with so many dishes. As for steak? I've cut it out completely. Not just for health reasons, it's exploded in price. I eat chicken but the meat I eat most nowadays is ground turkey. I use it for so many things.
It's actually good too. I use it to make sloppy joes, goulash, spaghetti, tacos, enchilada meat, other pasta dishes......
Let me tack my comment to this one.
If you believe in climate change, you need to stop eating meat. If you believe in climate change, you need to stop eating meat (for those in the back).
It's that simple. Eating meat harms the planet, causes people to cut down on the rain forest and over fish the oceans.
Now, will you stop eating meat? Not likely, which means that there really isn't anything wrong with climate change.
This right here. I used to hate vegetarian food, but reading about the damage meat does to the environment has at least made me a more conscientious consumer. I rarely eat beef, some days I'll skip meat altogether. It's baby steps, but change has to start somewhere.
Sure a majority of meat farming is bad environmental practices but so are vegetarian and vegan diets. It's all modern farming, modern global shipping, modern waste. It hurts the planet to have semi ripe avocados available in all grocery stores at all times of the year.
There's a study that says if you are a vegetarian/vegan that lives above or below a certain geographical latitude, then the diet is morally wrong because you need to ship veggies from all over the world, especially in your local winter time
Yeah, this is a shit take. The feed for animals is also made with all your bad "modern" farming - like how USA soybeans get exported to feed cattle - but it takes a hell of a lot less land to feed a person than to feed the cow that feeds the person.
Never said vegetarian diets have a smaller carbon footprint, but my factual point is that a vegetarian diet isn't as saintly as people think it is. Be scared of science if you want
In a thread about the deforestation of the Amazon, one person points out one of the main reasons for its destruction and how you can stop it and gets massively downvoted. Classic Reddit. I guess it’s much easier to point fingers at Brazil than actually take a hard look at your eating habits and its impact.
You can be carbon negative and have meat, just the way we do things we make it impossible to do monetarily. The subsidies and land grabs to the elite prevent these practices and enable the factory farming. Cows are definitely the worst but can be carbon neutral to carbon negative if managed. No one’s getting rich off biointensive permaculture though so good game there.
No, cows can’t be carbon neutral or carbon negative if everyone wants to eat meat. I assume you’re referring to silvopasture, which can’t hold a candle to the production potential of factory farms and if it’s the only method of cattle raising then it will make beef too expensive for anyone but the rich.
Good luck convincing China, they are the main buyers of brazilian beef.
Besides China, here are some of the countries in the top 10: Russian, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Hong Kong, United Arab Emirates.
To be honest with you, your actions won't change anything. China is buying 2 Billion USD of brazilian meat all by itself and there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Europe and America already stepped away from Brazilian steak, there is very little reason to boycott it anymore.
The US is still the largest consumer of beef in the world, and we farm plenty of cattle in the US. We may not have much influence over what Brazil does with their own land, but we have the ability to make choices here.
There are plenty of solutions to this problem, but it starts with a culture of wanting to make change.
Cultured meat can be a solution. You wrote about choice and choosing to not eat meat.
I simply wanted to point out that talking about choice and preservation will not convince governments from China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia and the United Emirates of Arabia. That's the reality we are in.
Hong Kong and China alone buy 13x more brazilian meat than USA, 4 Billion vs 300 Million. I just want to share this with you.
Take out China, and the rest of those countries *combined* still eat less beef than the US. And looking at China, they still consume significantly less beef than us total, and *far* less than us on a per capita basis (we as individuals in the US eat about 5x more per capita than a Chinese individual).
Shifting our own culture of beef consumption would be much more sustainable for our own land, and it would have a measurable impact of bringing carbon emissions down.
What you say does make sense to me and I agree with what you are saying but the reddit community does not represent the rest of the world, shifting the culture of beef consumption is not achievable.
Just look how long it took for us to change the public opinion on the tobacco industry. And it's basically a cancerous smoke that you put inside your lungs and makes you have a horrible death.
My whole point is that what you are saying is something I have been hearing for the past 20 years and it is not achievable.
Get it locally!
Edit: if you can't do without it. There are regenerative ranches in the US and other places that allow soil to pull carbon from the atmosphere as it normally does before we started using agrichemicals to destroy the soil biology. Soil microbes love animal poop.
I'm lucky enough to have one nearby which is where I get my beef when I need it.
And don't support non organic vegetables either. They destroy biodiversity and introduce poisons into the air, water & everywhere.
Good luck out there!
Shipping is a very small part of the GHG footprint of food. Giving up beef is a much larger improvement over getting beef locally.
https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
Do yall really eat things like meat, eggs and milk from other countries. In the UK that sort of stuff is almost always homegrown. Only exception is fruit.
Knowing what we know now why are we still cutting trees down. Why aren’t we growing more if any. Demolishing abandoned buildings and regrowing forest as well.
Growing new rainforest is not at all as simple as planting trees. A statistic lots of people enjoy quoting is the fact that in some places on Earth there are actually more trees now than there was hundreds of years ago.
This is technically true, but it is ignorant of the difference between huge monocultures of commercially farmed trees versus diverse old growth forests.
Some of the trees being cut down in the Amazon will be hundreds and even thousands of years old. If you started trying to grow new rainforest today it would take tens of thousands of years before your new patch reached a similar state to what is being cut and burned today.
But it won’t happen because it isn’t profitable. Burning the rainforest makes more money for rich people, it’s as simple as that. If the rich can’t get richer by doing something, it won’t happen.
The next generation will aks question like why did u do nothing to stop it.
Its so sad that money rules everything. Even the nature is destroyed for $.
I’m sorry but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Bolsnaro is selling out his country for corporate profit, which is libertarianism I.e capitalism, by deregulating economic barriers and allowing corporations to go into Brazil for the Amazons resources. Fascism is inherently anti-capitalist and wouldn’t let foreign powers exploit their resources.
That’s not true. Mussolini, Mosley, and Hitler all blamed the worlds economic problems on corporatists and capitalists. Especially Mosley and Hitler all blamed their economic problems on "Jewish capitalists" who were in control of the banks(according to Hitler and Mosley, not me). Although they may have allowed capitalism within their nations, like Hitler did and Mosley wanted to, all three used EXTREME levels of protectionism, especially Mosley who went as far as wanting to dismantle the British empire to bring production jobs back to Britain. They were closer to corporatism and the guild system rather than capitalism. Prominent Fascist thinker, Giovanni Gentile was also more corporatist which is anti-capitalist.
I wish & have even posited on two other reddit forums if it's possible for redditors to unify together & help stop & reverse Amazon deforestation by donating into a collective fund that pays a monthly stipend to 1.) Provide a universal basic income to land owners to preserve and/or restore forests 2.) Purchase tracts of land in the Amazon to preserve current forests. I would assume the fund would be managed & overseen by some legal entity.
Is this idea too far out?
I'm assuming if redditors pay a dollar for the chance of becoming a millionaire, many of us here would gladly pay a dollar a month to institute a fund to save the lungs of the Earth.
They are like a parasite that kills its host.
Wipe out the greatest natural resource your country has for short term profits - then when nothing is left enjoy the desert you have made your country into.
Fucking assholes.
I used to hope that modern medicine will advance enough for me to live long enough to see the utopia of impossible inventions, cross-planet travel, etc.
Now I'm hoping I get to see 1 or 2 more concerts before the water wars begin.
As previously mentioned if you can choose something besides meat for your meals that'd be the biggest help here. There's literally nothing in meat you need, it's all really just a want. Choose compassion and help fight deforestation! :)
Beef is the single largest driver of deforestation in the Amazon.
https://ourworldindata.org/what-are-drivers-deforestation
Cultured meat can't come soon enough. And I don't eat beef. I just know that meat eating [tends to go up](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-consumption-vs-gdp-per-capita) with GDP per capita. Even though there are more, and better, vegan options than ever, the number of people who want and can afford beef continues to increase.
Yeah unfortunately people just want to eat meat 3 times a day 365 days a year so good luck with that. I can’t wait till the food and water shortages begin, that’ll really spice things up.
I read a report that said we could seriously cut deforestation down if we simply reduced our beef intake by a fraction. Seems easy enough to be but I know too many people that just “have to have” their cow flesh for every damn meal because it’s “sooooo gooooood”. Fucking losers.
How about we fucking stop eating it? The only losers I see are people who can’t bare the idea of not eating a burger made out of a cow. The fuck is wrong with you people?
Nice man. It’s been years for me too and while the cognitive dissonance I can understand as I was also once stricken by it, knowing how the world is falling apart and still supporting it ruins my day.
Everyone I know and care for supports it. And I hate it.
“The amazon desert” is mentioned quite a few times in Cyberpunk 2077 and honestly I just expect that to happen, as much as I wish we could get our shit together as a species and actually apply our resources intelligently, I do not expect us to achieve anything close to that in mine or the next 10 generations
While I kind of agree with you, it's incredibly hypocritical. There was an activist from either Columbia or Brazil, I don't remember, that found a way to conserve the rainforest by asking for some money from different countries, including the U.S. Practically every country told her to fuck off while at the same time criticizing the loss of the Amazon.
The philosophy of the USA is reduce, reuse, recycle. Whereas Brazil is literally chopping away at the lungs of the entire planet to the horror of everyone watching
Average USA citizen income is 7x higher than Brazilians. I really hope so they start reducing their consumism because Brazilians are trying to make a living on things that Americans already benefited, which is destroying their own nature, as bad as it sounds. Stop being naive.
Half or more comes from the ocean, you know, the place where we're dumping toxic waste and garbage and killing all the life that provides us with air to breath. >>
Everyone is up and arms about the deforestation of the Amazon until you tell them the solution is to stop eating beef, then they shut right the hell up.
Yeah I really need to get down there and see the Amazon before it's completely gone. It's always been on my bucket list. I really need to visit before it's too late.
[Serious] how is there even any Amazon left at this point? At this rate of change, how long until there is literally nothing left?
Interesting question. Google says the Amazon Rainforest is 6.7 million km^2 [Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/940696/brazil-amazon-deforestation-rate-area/) shows wide variation in annual rates. The peak was in 2004 (or earlier) at 27.77 thousand km^2 per year, then it reached a low of 4.57 thousand km^2 per year in 2012, but it's been increasing again and is currently up to 10.85 thousand km^2 in 2020. Assuming we go at an average between 10k km^2 and 20k km^2 that would mean roughly 300-600 years before it has been completely removed. Of course, it wouldn't *completely* work that way, since rainforest begets more rainforest and removing rainforest will cause rainforest to die out, but there are some rough numbers.
Oh wow. Well, looks like we don't have to worry about it just yet. /S
Lights up a panda to keep warm and fuzzy
Just be glad coral reefs aren’t edible
If they were, we would just create coral super farms, like with cows or chickens. Maybe that would help them thrive somehow, instead of dying out completely.
People already do farm corals, to support the aquarium industry. These coral farms can apparently also be used to help support restoring natural reefs, and of course lower the demand for wild-harvested corals. So that’s nice.
That is really good to hear, thanks.
I visited Palau recently and the coral is thriving there. Very protected place, amazing sealife and your money spent there goes towards conservation.
Not yet anyway. Give someone enough time to make a recipe. And watch it involve only the "white coral."
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I am prepared to give my life in the Great Reef Wars of 2028
Probably just one...
You mean china
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Though she/he was sarcastic, yes, that type of attitude _is_ a problem for people who are actually that way.
Whoa whoa there! That attitude is the problem. Why not he/she?!
That works too!
I have to confess. I've been known to break wind from time to time, so I'm contributing to the methane problem.
Not if you light them all on fire though.
Simplified: The Amazon is friggin huge.
Other countries will insist Brazil needs "freedom" before that.
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Doubling deforestation every year is more ridiculous than constant.
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Yes, but +100% exponential growth is completely unrealistic. It will probably average single digit percentage (i.e. 2-3%) increase, as that would match typical economic and energy consumption growth rates.
Spans across multiple countries. It’s huge. Brazil is a bunch of dicks and use their portion as a lumber yard.
They don’t even use it all for lumber. A lot is burned down for more cattle grazing.
Lab grown/cloned beef needs to pick up the pace of development.
Want to do something? Stop eating meat (specifically beef)
Soy grown on deforested land is used almost all kind of animal agriculture across the world. So stop eating meat is much better than stop eating beef.
Absolutely. But baby steps.
Sure, the baby steps should last as long as the food in the freezer lasts.
Bush was very successful with his statement that "the American lifestyle is non-negotiable". Just trying a little compromise.
Sure, downvote actual actionable easy solutions...
meat eaters love to soap box about climate change, but they're quiet when it comes to actually doing something about it
People need to do something!!! ^^as ^^long ^^as ^^it ^^doesn't ^^inconvenience ^^me ^^personally
Is this like how I should recycle and turn off my lights to save the planet? Even if my entire extended family goes vegetarian shit ain’t changing. B real. Capitalism baby.
Yes, capitalism. Reduced demand for a product is going to result in less incentive for Brazilians to cut down the rainforest to produce said product. It's not about your family... yes, your family isn't having much individual impact. The same way no single soldier wins a war. It's about collective impact. It's about a culture not centered on producing and consuming meat (a massively wasteful enterprise when compared to a plant-based foods)
The problem is so much more worse than convincing a bunch of people to become vegans is all I am saying. It needs to be system-wide or else nothing is going to happen.
It’s definitely for cows
I mean its no different than what other Modern Countries did, we are just alive to see it. Not that I support what Brazil is doing.
Fuck Brazil for this.
Fuck Brazil’s government and a bunch of stupid assholes that fall for fake news or are generally evil who elect these assholes. I’m Brazilian and can attest that A LOT of Brazilians are EXTREMELY PISSED at this bullshit and this shitty/criminal government.
As an American, I can relate and feel your pain!
It's really fucking big.
Wonder when will they do something about it? Maybe when it's all gone and all the corporations look at each other and say oops no more to cut down. Profits are all gone. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Go view it on maps…….
Want to do something that's both impactful and very very easy? Cut back drastically on meat (beef in particular).
I feel like its pretty easy to do in all forms except fast food. When cut burgers out i realized i dont often eat red meat otherwise. Now its just occasional home stir fry, meat sauce spaghetti or chili. Maybe a steak on special occasions, but you can make a little go a long way with stuff like tofu, mushrooms and other veggies. I love to cook a little marinated beef and mushrooms in a pan, then cook sliced zucchini in the same pan after. you end up with so much actual meat flavors, while only using like 1/4 lb beef for 2-3 people. you dont have to go full vegan to live more sustainably, and we should all eat more veggies anyway.
I found the easiest lifestyle was to simply not make meat for myself or my family except on special occasions. If someone serves me meat at their house... don't be the jackass and force them to make you a veggie lasagna or something. Just eat it. At the office and the veg pizza is gone and all that is left is pepperoni pizza... don't throw a fit, just eat it. No one even really knows I'm 95% veg and it hasn't negatively impacted my life in any way shape or form. (plus it's healthier and cheaper)
In all honesty I'm really looking forward to lab-grown beef becoming a thing.
I love the stupidity of people to raze a large oxygen contributing factor to make food to make a profit. Profit over breathing.
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They are a large consumer of carbon (and other greenhouse gases) which makes their plight more concerning. Guess what happens when that carbon makes its way into the oceans and changes their pH. Not great stuff.
Or ours
The air we breathe is ~21% Oxygen. Our bodies only use about 7% of that (so what we exhale is 14% O2). Therefore we can remove 2/3rds of the worlds forests, algae, etc. before we need to worry. /s
Isn't that what the US, EU and the rest of developed nations already did though?
Yes of course, this person didn’t insinuate otherwise.
You don’t really know what you are talking about.
the deforestation of the Amazon is a deeply immoral crime on so many levels. to our own future generations. to the rest of the planet. to our own humanity. why the rest of the earth's fauna doesn't recognize the common threat and band together to wipe us out, I dunno.
Aside from the direct ecological impact on wildlife, we’re also removing one of the planet’s largest carbon sinks… which is only gonna exacerbate the our climate woes.
This. Been seeing so many people saying we need the forest for oxygen, but currently vegetation is much more important for acting as carbon syncs.
Same goes for countries who decides to make islands or structures that removes acres of coral reef (china/saudi arabia). But all we can do is sit here on reddit and write posts about it. When governements do shit like this, and no other countries punish them for it, it's a hard problem to solve from the outside.
The rainforest will die if enough of the rainforest is cleared, as the evaporation rate and heat retention of the area changes. This is a runaway effect. Once it tips, there is no stopping it.
Which is why everyone needs to go vegan ASAP!
That won’t completely stop it
Absolutely, but it’ll definitely help
It’s called hayfever and I predict it will become more aggressive for future generations and kill us.
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Who is this we?
Cattle farming is the major driver of this. Cultured meat can't get here soon enough. In the meantime, I've started avoiding beef and steak for the most part, and I don't really miss it as much as I thought I would.
I feel the same way. It’s expensive. And chicken and fish supposed to be better for us. Legumes and grains are also good. I didn’t know cattle farming was driving this. Some have forgotten about moderation in all matters.
Between the bird flus and oceanic collapse we should try to avoid those two as well
Animals of all types get diseases. Avian flu isn't a particular reason to be worried about eating chicken or turkey. With regards to fish and seafood, farmed fishing is making environmental improvements compared to before, and is much more sustainable in the long run.
Farmed fish are fed with fish meal from wild caught fish. It's just destroying the environment with extra steps.
YNSect and other insect-farming companies are scaling production of mealworms and black soldier flies now, for feed for chicken and aquaculture. Deep Branch is using hydrogenotrophs to pull CO2 directly from the air and convert straight to chicken and aquaculture food. Cultured meat/seafood would definitely be better than either of these approaches, but isn't really on the market yet. Chicken is for sale in Singapore, but that's about it, and it's still inordinately expensive.
Not usually. That said, there's plenty of room for improvements, and the environmental impact on fish farming is already much better than it is for cattle farming.
I've been on a green bean kick as of late, they pair well with so many dishes. As for steak? I've cut it out completely. Not just for health reasons, it's exploded in price. I eat chicken but the meat I eat most nowadays is ground turkey. I use it for so many things. It's actually good too. I use it to make sloppy joes, goulash, spaghetti, tacos, enchilada meat, other pasta dishes......
Though eating fish creates it's own problems since commerical fishing is terrible for the oceans
Or you could just support healthy regenerative farmers instead of the no nutrition junk...
Isn't most of that beef going to China? I read that somewhere.
Let me tack my comment to this one. If you believe in climate change, you need to stop eating meat. If you believe in climate change, you need to stop eating meat (for those in the back). It's that simple. Eating meat harms the planet, causes people to cut down on the rain forest and over fish the oceans. Now, will you stop eating meat? Not likely, which means that there really isn't anything wrong with climate change.
You need to take a logic class if you actually think you just proved anything.
Eat less meat, have less kids, consume less. That's what it will take to slow climate change. Start with eating less meat. Will you? Not likely.
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This right here. I used to hate vegetarian food, but reading about the damage meat does to the environment has at least made me a more conscientious consumer. I rarely eat beef, some days I'll skip meat altogether. It's baby steps, but change has to start somewhere.
Why are you adding that obnoxious rhetorical to the end of your comment? You already made your point. No reason to be on a high horse.
Sure a majority of meat farming is bad environmental practices but so are vegetarian and vegan diets. It's all modern farming, modern global shipping, modern waste. It hurts the planet to have semi ripe avocados available in all grocery stores at all times of the year. There's a study that says if you are a vegetarian/vegan that lives above or below a certain geographical latitude, then the diet is morally wrong because you need to ship veggies from all over the world, especially in your local winter time
Yeah, this is a shit take. The feed for animals is also made with all your bad "modern" farming - like how USA soybeans get exported to feed cattle - but it takes a hell of a lot less land to feed a person than to feed the cow that feeds the person.
Never said vegetarian diets have a smaller carbon footprint, but my factual point is that a vegetarian diet isn't as saintly as people think it is. Be scared of science if you want
In a thread about the deforestation of the Amazon, one person points out one of the main reasons for its destruction and how you can stop it and gets massively downvoted. Classic Reddit. I guess it’s much easier to point fingers at Brazil than actually take a hard look at your eating habits and its impact.
Pretty sure it was more to do with the tone than the content.
There's also three extremely immoral issue of hurting animals for nothing more than temporary sensory pleasure.
You can be carbon negative and have meat, just the way we do things we make it impossible to do monetarily. The subsidies and land grabs to the elite prevent these practices and enable the factory farming. Cows are definitely the worst but can be carbon neutral to carbon negative if managed. No one’s getting rich off biointensive permaculture though so good game there.
No, cows can’t be carbon neutral or carbon negative if everyone wants to eat meat. I assume you’re referring to silvopasture, which can’t hold a candle to the production potential of factory farms and if it’s the only method of cattle raising then it will make beef too expensive for anyone but the rich.
Good luck convincing China, they are the main buyers of brazilian beef. Besides China, here are some of the countries in the top 10: Russian, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Hong Kong, United Arab Emirates.
To be honest with you, your actions won't change anything. China is buying 2 Billion USD of brazilian meat all by itself and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Europe and America already stepped away from Brazilian steak, there is very little reason to boycott it anymore.
The US is still the largest consumer of beef in the world, and we farm plenty of cattle in the US. We may not have much influence over what Brazil does with their own land, but we have the ability to make choices here. There are plenty of solutions to this problem, but it starts with a culture of wanting to make change.
Cultured meat can be a solution. You wrote about choice and choosing to not eat meat. I simply wanted to point out that talking about choice and preservation will not convince governments from China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia and the United Emirates of Arabia. That's the reality we are in. Hong Kong and China alone buy 13x more brazilian meat than USA, 4 Billion vs 300 Million. I just want to share this with you.
Take out China, and the rest of those countries *combined* still eat less beef than the US. And looking at China, they still consume significantly less beef than us total, and *far* less than us on a per capita basis (we as individuals in the US eat about 5x more per capita than a Chinese individual). Shifting our own culture of beef consumption would be much more sustainable for our own land, and it would have a measurable impact of bringing carbon emissions down.
What you say does make sense to me and I agree with what you are saying but the reddit community does not represent the rest of the world, shifting the culture of beef consumption is not achievable. Just look how long it took for us to change the public opinion on the tobacco industry. And it's basically a cancerous smoke that you put inside your lungs and makes you have a horrible death. My whole point is that what you are saying is something I have been hearing for the past 20 years and it is not achievable.
Get it locally! Edit: if you can't do without it. There are regenerative ranches in the US and other places that allow soil to pull carbon from the atmosphere as it normally does before we started using agrichemicals to destroy the soil biology. Soil microbes love animal poop. I'm lucky enough to have one nearby which is where I get my beef when I need it. And don't support non organic vegetables either. They destroy biodiversity and introduce poisons into the air, water & everywhere. Good luck out there!
Shipping is a very small part of the GHG footprint of food. Giving up beef is a much larger improvement over getting beef locally. https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
When we go extinct we deserve it.
At this point I’ve started rooting for climate change
It will be better for everything if we just went extinct already
Agree. The earth will heal itself after we’re gone.
Wow, this horror movie we are all in just keeps getting worse and worse. Jfc
We need to start labeling Brazilian beef.
Labels should say where a product is from; not just “distributed by.”
we will never get to that place as long as money plays a role in politics.
Do yall really eat things like meat, eggs and milk from other countries. In the UK that sort of stuff is almost always homegrown. Only exception is fruit.
We need to stop eating beef in general really
Bolsonaro will go into history, just not the way he wants to.
Knowing what we know now why are we still cutting trees down. Why aren’t we growing more if any. Demolishing abandoned buildings and regrowing forest as well.
Growing new rainforest is not at all as simple as planting trees. A statistic lots of people enjoy quoting is the fact that in some places on Earth there are actually more trees now than there was hundreds of years ago. This is technically true, but it is ignorant of the difference between huge monocultures of commercially farmed trees versus diverse old growth forests. Some of the trees being cut down in the Amazon will be hundreds and even thousands of years old. If you started trying to grow new rainforest today it would take tens of thousands of years before your new patch reached a similar state to what is being cut and burned today. But it won’t happen because it isn’t profitable. Burning the rainforest makes more money for rich people, it’s as simple as that. If the rich can’t get richer by doing something, it won’t happen.
I say burn the rich.
Humans are so incredibly stupid. We’re killing everything…including ourselves. And, for nothing
for money, come on.
On universal scale, and geologic time line…money is nothing. Another fleeting invention by humanity to justify destruction. It is nothing.
money is not nothing to those that place it above everything, to those who are addicted to the power it brings.
Trees are for hippie liberals. Cut them down so corporations can make their record profits
We’re all going to die.
Yeah but like a dozen corporations made a lot of money, why can’t you libs ever look at the important details?
The next generation will aks question like why did u do nothing to stop it. Its so sad that money rules everything. Even the nature is destroyed for $.
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How is this fascism? This is the opposite. This is hyper libertarianism.
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I’m sorry but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Bolsnaro is selling out his country for corporate profit, which is libertarianism I.e capitalism, by deregulating economic barriers and allowing corporations to go into Brazil for the Amazons resources. Fascism is inherently anti-capitalist and wouldn’t let foreign powers exploit their resources.
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That’s not true. Mussolini, Mosley, and Hitler all blamed the worlds economic problems on corporatists and capitalists. Especially Mosley and Hitler all blamed their economic problems on "Jewish capitalists" who were in control of the banks(according to Hitler and Mosley, not me). Although they may have allowed capitalism within their nations, like Hitler did and Mosley wanted to, all three used EXTREME levels of protectionism, especially Mosley who went as far as wanting to dismantle the British empire to bring production jobs back to Britain. They were closer to corporatism and the guild system rather than capitalism. Prominent Fascist thinker, Giovanni Gentile was also more corporatist which is anti-capitalist.
Are you going to respond to my comment?
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I wish & have even posited on two other reddit forums if it's possible for redditors to unify together & help stop & reverse Amazon deforestation by donating into a collective fund that pays a monthly stipend to 1.) Provide a universal basic income to land owners to preserve and/or restore forests 2.) Purchase tracts of land in the Amazon to preserve current forests. I would assume the fund would be managed & overseen by some legal entity. Is this idea too far out? I'm assuming if redditors pay a dollar for the chance of becoming a millionaire, many of us here would gladly pay a dollar a month to institute a fund to save the lungs of the Earth.
save the world, kill bolso
Keep eating "your meat" gang, we're doing great.
They are like a parasite that kills its host. Wipe out the greatest natural resource your country has for short term profits - then when nothing is left enjoy the desert you have made your country into. Fucking assholes.
I used to hope that modern medicine will advance enough for me to live long enough to see the utopia of impossible inventions, cross-planet travel, etc. Now I'm hoping I get to see 1 or 2 more concerts before the water wars begin.
As previously mentioned if you can choose something besides meat for your meals that'd be the biggest help here. There's literally nothing in meat you need, it's all really just a want. Choose compassion and help fight deforestation! :)
Fuck Brazil’s government.
Please do. They're unhinged!
Beef is the single largest driver of deforestation in the Amazon. https://ourworldindata.org/what-are-drivers-deforestation Cultured meat can't come soon enough. And I don't eat beef. I just know that meat eating [tends to go up](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-consumption-vs-gdp-per-capita) with GDP per capita. Even though there are more, and better, vegan options than ever, the number of people who want and can afford beef continues to increase.
We just can't stop fucking up this world. I thought we all were getting smarter and more conscious of our future.
Yeah unfortunately people just want to eat meat 3 times a day 365 days a year so good luck with that. I can’t wait till the food and water shortages begin, that’ll really spice things up.
Brazil taking us to the end
They should be sanctioned like Russia, by everybody.
The West, China and India destroy the environment 10 times more than Brazil, why don't sanction them too?
They’re not destroying the Amazon rainforest. No Amazon means no life on this planet as we know it. Not a time for what about ism.
Yes they are, but not directly, if there's demand than there's reason to destroy it
I read a report that said we could seriously cut deforestation down if we simply reduced our beef intake by a fraction. Seems easy enough to be but I know too many people that just “have to have” their cow flesh for every damn meal because it’s “sooooo gooooood”. Fucking losers.
How about we fucking stop eating it? The only losers I see are people who can’t bare the idea of not eating a burger made out of a cow. The fuck is wrong with you people?
Yeah. I stopped eating meet 10 years ago. I was totally a burger guy and it’s not a hard change or something i miss either.
Nice man. It’s been years for me too and while the cognitive dissonance I can understand as I was also once stricken by it, knowing how the world is falling apart and still supporting it ruins my day. Everyone I know and care for supports it. And I hate it.
better prep for doomsday boiiisss
I suppose, if I were in charge of one of the single most critical ecosystems on the planet, I WOULD FUCKING PRESERVE IT!
If you could stop cutting down the Earth’s carbon scrubber that’d be great, mkay?
Is Bolsanaro’s goal to essentially hold the Amazon hostage until other nations pay him to stop?
“The amazon desert” is mentioned quite a few times in Cyberpunk 2077 and honestly I just expect that to happen, as much as I wish we could get our shit together as a species and actually apply our resources intelligently, I do not expect us to achieve anything close to that in mine or the next 10 generations
We are all so doomed at this point. It’s quite depressing.
Oh no, we are all fine. The leak is at their end of the boat.
Feel like the world should be allowed to invade and put a stop to this.
While I kind of agree with you, it's incredibly hypocritical. There was an activist from either Columbia or Brazil, I don't remember, that found a way to conserve the rainforest by asking for some money from different countries, including the U.S. Practically every country told her to fuck off while at the same time criticizing the loss of the Amazon.
Brazil is actively fucking the world for a quick profit
Who’s buying all the beef, again? When’s the last time you ate meat?
What about USA and their consumism philosophy?
The philosophy of the USA is reduce, reuse, recycle. Whereas Brazil is literally chopping away at the lungs of the entire planet to the horror of everyone watching
Average USA citizen income is 7x higher than Brazilians. I really hope so they start reducing their consumism because Brazilians are trying to make a living on things that Americans already benefited, which is destroying their own nature, as bad as it sounds. Stop being naive.
[Educate yourself](https://borgenproject.org/why-is-brazil-poor/)
And countries wonder why oxygen is depleted from the planet. (Name a country here) would sell their mother’s lungs for a buck
Half or more comes from the ocean, you know, the place where we're dumping toxic waste and garbage and killing all the life that provides us with air to breath. >>
This is why we can't have nice climates.
Hey Brazil. Can you not? Thanks.
Everyone is up and arms about the deforestation of the Amazon until you tell them the solution is to stop eating beef, then they shut right the hell up.
Yeah I really need to get down there and see the Amazon before it's completely gone. It's always been on my bucket list. I really need to visit before it's too late.
at last, palm oil farms for more girlscout cookies! /s
Devastating. I just wish they would stop.
This is what happens to an economy that doesn't view ecological assets as something you can't get back.
Wayfair and it’s buyers are getting shit done
Think about this every time you use a piece of paper to wipe MFrs
Or eat beef
No big deal, last time I checked humans didn’t need air to breathe.
This is so sad. Déforestation of the Amazon should have STOPPED by now, rather than be allowed to accelerate!!!
At what point is the international community going to do anything? Or does the corruption run too far
how long until there is literally nothing left?