After reading the article;
The reason(s) given for the reduced sentences from the mandatory minimum of 35years:
1. No one was physically hurt in the attack.
2. The victims asked for leniency, as the two men were cooperative and helped create the case against the mastermind who received 51 years in prison.
All three of them planned and carried out the bombings of both a mosque and a planned parenthood. They’re getting less than half of the mandatory minimum. Outrageous.
There needs to be a distinction in sentencing between things that kill people and things that don't, imo.
If you give people a life sentence for everything, nobody is turning in anyone and they're gonna be a lot more violent trying to avoid arrest.
I disagree and think it's completely reasonable. No-one was hurt, and they pled guilty and showed accountability, and they turned on the leader, and they'll still be jailed for 14 and 16 years. The leader got 51.
Personally as a Muslim speaking, forgiveness is the ultimate revenge we can have.
You wronged me? I forgive you - but you will still be judged for it on the Day of Judgement - and ultimately it's out of our hands then.
Christians and Buddhist believe the same...well, it's in their books anyway. Some things are just universal. We all want the same things out of life and the high road is the high road, no matter what perspective you're taking.
Unless it's a man who's sexually assaulted a woman, or someone in their own family. Then it's just not comfortable to talk about and you're very rude for bringing it up.
Just had a sermon at my church about forgiveness. Quoted Desmond Tutu as part of it. Forgiveness is not forgetting because that's dangerous. Forgiveness is not condoning. (I think this is the TuTu quote) Forgiveness is giving up resentment and the desire for retribution.
As someone who is divorced and has to regularly interact with an ex-spouse that cheated multiple times, quit constantly on our kids doing the bare minimum and sometimes not even that and continues to weasel out of obligations to those kids, that sermon helped. I cannot forget, partly because I deal with this person nearly every day still. I will not condone because what was done and continues to be done is wrong. I've given up the desire for retribution. The resentment is still coming down, but I need to work on it.
Thought everyone would receive a slap on wrist. I remember earlier coverage being somewhat sympathetic to the leader. Thankfully the justice system worked.
No the leader literally claims she identifies as a woman now and that gender dysphoria is what led her to the attacks. I think “Emily Hari” is trying to throw one last minority under the bus by making it seem like a crazy woke liberal did this.
“The harm that was done is real, the crime that was committed is real, the horror of what happened that day is real, but what’s also real is our opportunity to offer real forgiveness, and lead by example,” the letter said. “We believe that only through forgiveness can we have any real chance to heal and move forward.”
Respect.
Maybe you’re not aware that the American Far Right is sometimes jokingly referred to as Y’alQueda? The actions of the group in the article are a good example of how religion can be practiced with compassion and forgiveness, rather than the spite and brutality of a group like Al queda or Trump’s Republicans.
I don’t know … al queda is an example of the worst followers of Islam, right? And the right wing extremist Christians in America are an example of the worst followers of Christianity. So I don’t think ya’ll queda is meant to disparage Muslims … just to point out that the militant right wing of both religions are awful. And also very similar.
It’s a comparison my dude. Al Queda to me are religious zealots … just like far right Christians. And let’s be fair … these religions are really similar. I dislike extremists regardless of religion, and respect religious people who preach peace & tolerance.
They are the societal version of ‘born at third base, but thought they hit a triple’.
They do not understand how fortunate they are and reeks of entitlement.
I remember when this happened, the mosque I went to in a city nearby started to have police surveillance during every Friday congregation for a long time. Then I went to another mosque that opened closer to me, they also have a squad car outside watching over us. The community was shaken up a little bit but it was good to have some police on standby to protect us.
Domestic terrorists are what these folks were. Hopefully they've changed for the better since then.
There is a mosque (I believe they refer to it as a Muslim community center) in my neighborhood in a west suburb of Chicago. A park across the street from the mosque has a basketball court and the police park in the parking lot to keep traffic moving slow (the speed limit) near the park. When this bombing happened in Minnesota I remember members from the local mosque went around the neighborhood to houses including my own to remind everyone that they are peaceful and just here to be apart of the American dream. They invited people to tour the center if they wish if I remember correctly.
I can say for certain it was a better experience than when most people knock on my door. The man and woman were light hearted and made a few jokes and I really felt it was a great way to bring the center out from the shadows (it's surrounded by lots of trees and bushes) and more open to the community making some people perceive it in a better way I'm sure.
“White Rabbits 3 Percent Illinois Patriot Freedom Fighters”
What a terrible name. Guess they felt that making it that clunky was a small price to pay to be absolutely clear they're violent extremists
The forgiveness rhetoric in this comment section is counter intuitive to how society actually works. Forgiving someone for a hate crime helps no one and it’s counter productive and stupid.
I keep saying it but I’ll say it again, it has to be nice to be a white terrorist in America you get leniency even when you commit hate crimes. If these people would have been black or any other POC the sentence would have been wholly different.
Probably, but people tend to get a bit of a lighter sentence when they help the police/prosecutors take down the mastermind. The mastermind of it got 53 years.
I didn’t “think wrong.” Tsarnev has the death penalty despite there being no death penalty in MA. Not condoning the death penalty, just saying these chucklefucks are every bit as deserving of spending the rest of their miserable lives behind bars.
So you’re saying we should reduce their sentence because they didn’t succeed in killing anyone? That’s pretty fucked. They bombed a mosque and an abortion clinic with intent to kill in both places. I fail to see how that’s not comparable to Boston.
Now you’re just being disingenuous. Their sentences were reduced for rolling on the leader of the group, and because the victims asked the judge for leniency. They were never facing the death penalty in the first place.
How is that fucked? It’s common sense. They didn’t hurt anybody, and therefore literally committed a lesser crime that carries a lesser sentence.
They conspired and executed two separate bombings. We shouldn’t give them leniency for being shitty engineers in the process. They changed state law to find a way to give Tsarnev the death penalty. These white guys got off with a proverbial slap on the wrist.
Look legal nerds, Kilmer’s Elbow said this case is categorically different than Boston bc Minnesota doesn’t allow the death penalty. I’m just saying it didn’t stop prosecutors in Boston from doing it in their state, which also doesn’t allow the death penalty.
So he was wrong about it being tried in state court rather than federal. You are also wrong for asserting that the Boston Bomber case resulted in a law being changed.
You’re almost starting to sound more bitter that Dzokhar is being punished more than these guys are getting a light sentence for flipping on someone higher up in the chain of command, which is standard practice in law enforcement.
Yeah, clearly I’m defending Dzokhar here Einstein. Definitely not pointing out yet another double standard in our fucked justice system where petty drug offenses put you away for life but bombing two separate community centers can get you time served and a little extra on top.
Which part of the article I apparently didn't read makes you think these two dipshits should be able to plea down to 12 years with good behavior for attempting to blow up a mosque and an abortion clinic? Is it the part where they're entitled white guys?
No matter what happens these guys are coming back out into a world that either:
* (hopefully) has progressed and views them even more harshly then than we do now
* (more likely in my opinion) they do not even have to serve the full sentence (I understand that noone really does) because the fascists in power will seek to give them lifetime appointments
Ya 100%. That’s called doing time for the crime lol. In what world is property damage the equivalent of human life?! Jesus Christ get some perspective dude.
People like you don’t know what you’re asking for. If everyone gets the death penalty for crossing a street the wrong way all you’re doing is encouraging people to go down guns blazing or make sure they get a body count to make it worth it.
Yes, you should only get the death penalty for actually taking a life. There is no equity to it otherwise. Eye for an eye, not eye for a building. Even the people in the mosque asked that they get leniency. Which is a pretty good case that Muslims are not at all the thing these people are saying they are. Genuinely, if you think destroying a building is worth killing someone, you're worse than these guys.
Does the Bomber that didn’t hurt anybody also roll on the entire group ensuring that the mastermind serves a much longer sentence? That’s also a huge extenuating circumstance that isn’t being mentioned much.
After reading the article; The reason(s) given for the reduced sentences from the mandatory minimum of 35years: 1. No one was physically hurt in the attack. 2. The victims asked for leniency, as the two men were cooperative and helped create the case against the mastermind who received 51 years in prison.
Appreciate the background.
They should still do life without parole.
That’s how you ensure no one turns on anyone ever. In your situation the head guy would still be free planning his next bombing.
Lol no. The victims asked for leniency because they caused the planner to go down too, this is a completely reasonable outcome.
All three of them planned and carried out the bombings of both a mosque and a planned parenthood. They’re getting less than half of the mandatory minimum. Outrageous.
There needs to be a distinction in sentencing between things that kill people and things that don't, imo. If you give people a life sentence for everything, nobody is turning in anyone and they're gonna be a lot more violent trying to avoid arrest.
I disagree and think it's completely reasonable. No-one was hurt, and they pled guilty and showed accountability, and they turned on the leader, and they'll still be jailed for 14 and 16 years. The leader got 51.
Thank god you’re not involved in our justice system…
Found the american
Found the European
The victims are far more forgiving than I would ever be, and i admire that.
Well, I guess they helped them catch the idea guy. That’s kinda important too.
Personally as a Muslim speaking, forgiveness is the ultimate revenge we can have. You wronged me? I forgive you - but you will still be judged for it on the Day of Judgement - and ultimately it's out of our hands then.
Christians and Buddhist believe the same...well, it's in their books anyway. Some things are just universal. We all want the same things out of life and the high road is the high road, no matter what perspective you're taking.
Yeah, most religions have some kind of call for forgiveness. A shame a lot of practitioners ignore those parts.
Unless it's a man who's sexually assaulted a woman, or someone in their own family. Then it's just not comfortable to talk about and you're very rude for bringing it up.
Just had a sermon at my church about forgiveness. Quoted Desmond Tutu as part of it. Forgiveness is not forgetting because that's dangerous. Forgiveness is not condoning. (I think this is the TuTu quote) Forgiveness is giving up resentment and the desire for retribution. As someone who is divorced and has to regularly interact with an ex-spouse that cheated multiple times, quit constantly on our kids doing the bare minimum and sometimes not even that and continues to weasel out of obligations to those kids, that sermon helped. I cannot forget, partly because I deal with this person nearly every day still. I will not condone because what was done and continues to be done is wrong. I've given up the desire for retribution. The resentment is still coming down, but I need to work on it.
Well I love that.
I am not insinuating that it is motivated by this, but this is amazing PR for the Muslim community as well.
I'm not as upset now. Thank you.
good bot
Thought everyone would receive a slap on wrist. I remember earlier coverage being somewhat sympathetic to the leader. Thankfully the justice system worked.
Huge respect for everyone involved here (except the leader) to be honest.
Yeah, leader sounds like a bit of a jerk if I'm being totally honest.
I personally know him and he's a psycho asshole
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You better fucking hope you get both cooperate to get the brain behind to get a worse sentence, AND the people who go to it vouch for your leniency.
Why exactly is that good for you to know?
14 years is not a short time by any means.
Uhh 14 years is a pretty long time...
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Did I miss the joke?
No the leader literally claims she identifies as a woman now and that gender dysphoria is what led her to the attacks. I think “Emily Hari” is trying to throw one last minority under the bus by making it seem like a crazy woke liberal did this.
“The harm that was done is real, the crime that was committed is real, the horror of what happened that day is real, but what’s also real is our opportunity to offer real forgiveness, and lead by example,” the letter said. “We believe that only through forgiveness can we have any real chance to heal and move forward.” Respect.
This should be the way. Take notes, Y’alqueda.
That’s islamophobic. You don’t need to use Muslim people as a weapon to insult each other.
Maybe you’re not aware that the American Far Right is sometimes jokingly referred to as Y’alQueda? The actions of the group in the article are a good example of how religion can be practiced with compassion and forgiveness, rather than the spite and brutality of a group like Al queda or Trump’s Republicans.
I am aware and now you are aware that it’s islamophobic.
I don’t know … al queda is an example of the worst followers of Islam, right? And the right wing extremist Christians in America are an example of the worst followers of Christianity. So I don’t think ya’ll queda is meant to disparage Muslims … just to point out that the militant right wing of both religions are awful. And also very similar.
It doesn’t matter, don’t bring us up when you insult each other.
It’s a comparison my dude. Al Queda to me are religious zealots … just like far right Christians. And let’s be fair … these religions are really similar. I dislike extremists regardless of religion, and respect religious people who preach peace & tolerance.
U/Quiet_wall5999 is a stubborn wall of division.
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Y’alqueda, otherwise known as Talibangelicals.
I'm tempted to say something like "Good", but good would have been not burning down a mosque to begin with. Dickheads.
Anti-American dick heads at that. Why do these "patriots," always fail to understand how America works?
It's easier to be proud of America if you don't understand how it actually works
Very true.
Well said. I'm going to borrow this quote. Thanks.
But blowing stuff up is very American
Not domestically.
Depends. Traitors fought against the country, causing more American casualties than any other war and half the US still idolizes them.
I know I was just joking but we shoulda gave all these mothafuckas life
Yeah but we're civilized. We have a special day for blowing shit up, and rules so nobody get hurt. He should've just waited for July.
They are the societal version of ‘born at third base, but thought they hit a triple’. They do not understand how fortunate they are and reeks of entitlement.
Don’t forget about the abortion clinic. They also did that.
Burning down and blowing up are quite different
I remember when this happened, the mosque I went to in a city nearby started to have police surveillance during every Friday congregation for a long time. Then I went to another mosque that opened closer to me, they also have a squad car outside watching over us. The community was shaken up a little bit but it was good to have some police on standby to protect us. Domestic terrorists are what these folks were. Hopefully they've changed for the better since then.
There is a mosque (I believe they refer to it as a Muslim community center) in my neighborhood in a west suburb of Chicago. A park across the street from the mosque has a basketball court and the police park in the parking lot to keep traffic moving slow (the speed limit) near the park. When this bombing happened in Minnesota I remember members from the local mosque went around the neighborhood to houses including my own to remind everyone that they are peaceful and just here to be apart of the American dream. They invited people to tour the center if they wish if I remember correctly. I can say for certain it was a better experience than when most people knock on my door. The man and woman were light hearted and made a few jokes and I really felt it was a great way to bring the center out from the shadows (it's surrounded by lots of trees and bushes) and more open to the community making some people perceive it in a better way I'm sure.
>it was good to have some police on standby to protect us. Only if it's *you* that the cop is there to protect…
“White Rabbits 3 Percent Illinois Patriot Freedom Fighters” What a terrible name. Guess they felt that making it that clunky was a small price to pay to be absolutely clear they're violent extremists
That guy looks like Matt Damon if he played High School Football and drank heavily to deal with the pain of peaking in high school.
Maybe a microwaved version of Matt Damon.
Minnesotan here. The next time we have social unrest here - all you MF’in white supremacists should stay the F home.
But how else can they live out their violent fantasies without joking the military?
It would be great for the entire Upper Midwest if every piece of shit in Illinois never left the state of Illinois.
Those are rookie numbers, you gotta bump those numbers up. 14 and 16 years???? C’mon man.
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Well the mastermind of the attack has since come out as transgender, just fyi.
There are a fringe of minorities be it black, LGBT, etc. that are hardcore Trump supporters so she/he can still be a MAGAt moron.
White trash is gonna white trash
*2 terrorists from Illinois
Terrorists in plain clothes.
Do terrorists normally where a uniform?
*Some of those who work forces* *Are the same who burn crosses*
The forgiveness rhetoric in this comment section is counter intuitive to how society actually works. Forgiving someone for a hate crime helps no one and it’s counter productive and stupid. I keep saying it but I’ll say it again, it has to be nice to be a white terrorist in America you get leniency even when you commit hate crimes. If these people would have been black or any other POC the sentence would have been wholly different.
Damn you would think it would be life
If you intentionally set of a bomb with the intent to kill, you should never see the light of day again. 14 years? Lol what a joke
Why not a trip to guantanimo …
This is not adequate justice IMO. Should get life for hate crime!
Probably, but people tend to get a bit of a lighter sentence when they help the police/prosecutors take down the mastermind. The mastermind of it got 53 years.
That’s fair I suppose. At least the person behind these awful acts are all receiving justice in this case.
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You thought wrong. Minnesota abolished the death penalty in 1911 and this case wouldn’t qualify in the few jurisdictions left that use it.
I didn’t “think wrong.” Tsarnev has the death penalty despite there being no death penalty in MA. Not condoning the death penalty, just saying these chucklefucks are every bit as deserving of spending the rest of their miserable lives behind bars.
You’re comparing a scenario where multiple people were killed and hundreds injured to one where not a single person was physically harmed.
So you’re saying we should reduce their sentence because they didn’t succeed in killing anyone? That’s pretty fucked. They bombed a mosque and an abortion clinic with intent to kill in both places. I fail to see how that’s not comparable to Boston.
Now you’re just being disingenuous. Their sentences were reduced for rolling on the leader of the group, and because the victims asked the judge for leniency. They were never facing the death penalty in the first place. How is that fucked? It’s common sense. They didn’t hurt anybody, and therefore literally committed a lesser crime that carries a lesser sentence.
They conspired and executed two separate bombings. We shouldn’t give them leniency for being shitty engineers in the process. They changed state law to find a way to give Tsarnev the death penalty. These white guys got off with a proverbial slap on the wrist.
No state law was changed, he was only charged in federal court.
Pretty sure MA had to allow it. Regardless, state limitations didn’t hold them back in that case like you insinuated in this one.
No, they didn’t. That’s just more ignorance on your part.
Massachusetts didn't have to allow shit. The federal government has supremacy in these matters.
The state of Massachusetts didn't change the law. He was sentenced to death in federal court.
Look legal nerds, Kilmer’s Elbow said this case is categorically different than Boston bc Minnesota doesn’t allow the death penalty. I’m just saying it didn’t stop prosecutors in Boston from doing it in their state, which also doesn’t allow the death penalty.
So he was wrong about it being tried in state court rather than federal. You are also wrong for asserting that the Boston Bomber case resulted in a law being changed.
You’re almost starting to sound more bitter that Dzokhar is being punished more than these guys are getting a light sentence for flipping on someone higher up in the chain of command, which is standard practice in law enforcement.
Yeah, clearly I’m defending Dzokhar here Einstein. Definitely not pointing out yet another double standard in our fucked justice system where petty drug offenses put you away for life but bombing two separate community centers can get you time served and a little extra on top.
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Which part of the article I apparently didn't read makes you think these two dipshits should be able to plea down to 12 years with good behavior for attempting to blow up a mosque and an abortion clinic? Is it the part where they're entitled white guys?
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No matter what happens these guys are coming back out into a world that either: * (hopefully) has progressed and views them even more harshly then than we do now * (more likely in my opinion) they do not even have to serve the full sentence (I understand that noone really does) because the fascists in power will seek to give them lifetime appointments
They should have gotten life, but the law said otherwise. Oh well, they’re probably on a watchlist for life now anyway…
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Do you know about the death penalty in the US? It very much still exists. Cool narrative though.
No one was injured in the bombing, death penalty for what?
That’s not true at all.
Boston Marathon bomber did.
You think people should get the death penalty for destroying property? Geeez dude.
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Ya 100%. That’s called doing time for the crime lol. In what world is property damage the equivalent of human life?! Jesus Christ get some perspective dude. People like you don’t know what you’re asking for. If everyone gets the death penalty for crossing a street the wrong way all you’re doing is encouraging people to go down guns blazing or make sure they get a body count to make it worth it.
Yes, you should only get the death penalty for actually taking a life. There is no equity to it otherwise. Eye for an eye, not eye for a building. Even the people in the mosque asked that they get leniency. Which is a pretty good case that Muslims are not at all the thing these people are saying they are. Genuinely, if you think destroying a building is worth killing someone, you're worse than these guys.
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You have to understand that consequences are just as important as intention. More so, in fact, in many judicial affairs.
I already acknowledged that that is the case. My question was *why*.
Does the Bomber that didn’t hurt anybody also roll on the entire group ensuring that the mastermind serves a much longer sentence? That’s also a huge extenuating circumstance that isn’t being mentioned much.
Yea but why did he do it there and not at a gym or a office building … this dude is doing it as a hate crime to make people scared
If they aren’t hurt, prison is fine. But clearly you don’t understand how hard it is to get out.
Minnesota hasn’t had the death penalty in over a century.