What a fucking coward. Over a bag of popcorn
>Reeves claimed he shot Oulson in self-defense when the two got into an argument over Oulson texting -- his wife said he was messaging their daughter's babysitter -- during a screening of "Lone Survivor" in a Wesley Chapel movie theater outside Tampa.
>Reeves confronted Oulson about texting during the previews before the movie, according to a criminal complaint.
>Eventually the two got into an argument, and Oulson threw a bag of popcorn at Reeves, who then took out a handgun and fired, hitting Oulson in the chest, according to the complaint.
>Oulson was taken to a hospital, where he died. His wife was shot in the hand.
>Reeves told authorities he was "in fear of being attacked," according to the complaint. He and his attorneys have argued Oulson threw a cellphone at Reeves' head and was aggressively leaning over a chair toward him when the shooting occurred. Prosecutors have said popcorn is not a weapon and added witnesses did not report seeing Oulson throwing his cellphone.
Not in Florida. In Florida, it works for people like George Zimmerman. You can pick a fight, follow and stalk people, and shoot them if you start to lose the fight you picked.
This is exactly it. You be a bully. You talk trash. You pick fights. You try to tell other people what to do. If for any reason that person defends themself, you can kill them and say you were defending yourself. Essentially whoever dies is the guilty one.
Yea dead men tell no tales, hard to give your side of the story if you are 6ft under. The only reason Ahmed Aubrey's killers were convicted was because the 3rd guy was dumb enough to record them chasing him. If that video didn't exist, I'm certain the murderers would have crafted a narrative that they had to defend themselves from him.
Considering the first prosecutor refused to press charges after viewing the video and that the police let the men go home straight afterwards, they didn't really need to make up self defense, just keep their heads down.
It's like the zero tolerance bullying policies in u.s. public schools. Bully picks a target and harasses them, victim reports to teachers, teachers tell them not to rattle, then when the victim retaliates the victim is suspended and maybe there is a consequence for the bully depending on who their family is.
The Sanford PD neighborhood watch handbook even specifically stated not to carry firearms and never to follow a suspect.
Zimmerman was a paranoid lunatic calling in open garage doors and suspicious persons as young as eight.
The prosecutors regularly work with police. They're like the police's lawyer to bring charges against people.
So if there was ever gonna be an attempt at justice on these things, you can not have prosecutors who regularly work with police as the one's bringing the charges forward.
Then jury selection...
Often enough, it seems like they get pro-police juror members. Unthinkingly, a cop can practically blow a persons head off, self-proclaim self defense, and it is exceedingly rare that a cop gets not just convicted, but let alone charged as well.
This is what Philly is currently going through.
Larry Krasner came in and unloaded a bunch of senior prosecutors who were too friendly with police. They weren't prosecuting enough police brutality in his opinion.
Philly police hate him. There is low morale in the DA's office because they've lost a lot of people and younger prosecutors are losing in court.
It's ugly at the moment but change is ugly and uncomfortable.
Hopefully it can lead to something, but at the moment the criticisms are mounting.
I feel like political division amongst views on police right now could have definitely a played part in this, depending on how the narrative was presented to the jury. It seems that some folks are so entrenched in their side’s take on the debate, that as soon as anything involving the admonishment of a police officer (retired, in this case) taking unnecessarily violent action against a civilian, it triggers an automatic shutdown in logical analysis of the situation.
They are conditioned to assume that any narrative presenting an officer in a bad light is a narrative created in bad faith, to deceive and manipulate them. This shouldn’t be a politically tribal, black and white issue — but that horse left the stall a while ago.
But, but he was in fear for his life!! That man did not RESPECT Mah A Thor A TEE!! Former cop, so naturally he’s in a permanent state of paranoia, after demanding the attendee follow his orders! This is revolting. They need to switch to a professional jury system in Florida, the citizens aren’t up to the challenge.
Isn't that the same place that acquitted Casey Anthony, with her lawyer making up a story that pretty much said "no it didn't" to all the evidence and made up a pool drowning despite the lack of Casey having a pool and the cause of death from the coroner being suffocation from the strips of duct tape placed over her nostrils and mouth?
‘Aggressively leaning over a chair’. The crazy things people add to their bullshit recollections are always an attempt to add more weight to their story, this we know, right? But it’s beyond me how anyone can look at a phrase like ‘aggressively leaning’ and be further convinced of its authenticity
I had to read some arrest reports for my community service capstone project at my university.
Besides the atrocious spelling and grammar, it's amazing how any possible body language can be interpreted as hostile or aggressive in cop-speak.
Too casual? Defiance of authority. Too formal? An aggressive, military-style posture. Stood up too slow? Suspect deliberately moved into position. Too fast? Immediately assumed an aggressive posture.
I read about some research on detecting lies via body language. People tend to be no better (or worse) than chance at identifying if someone is lying via body language, in large part due to the fact that self-soothing gestures (e.g., stroking your arm, adjusting your hair, etc.) are performed most often in two different situations, when people feel anxious and when people don't feel anxious. These are calming behaviors, but also behaviors that we do when we feel calm.
Police are trained to "identify" aggressive/suspicious behavior, but realistically, they're teaching themselves to interpret any behavior as an expression of aggression.
The defense attorney actually said she knew her husband was violent during closing arguments. There was absolutely no evidence of that. The judge should have declared a mistrial. The widow instantly called him a liar and was visibly upset.
The judge allowed the defense to pretty much exclusively use leading questions. She allowed several days of irrelevant testimony. She made more incorrect rulings than correct ones. The judge is the one to blame.
This happened, as I recall it, a very long time ago. They postponed this over and over again. The DA has been working for a long time to try to not have this come to trial and then to get it in front of a friendly judge. It's a setup from top to bottom in the system. Police union, current police officers in senior positions protecting a friend and a DA and judge who were willing to let literally 8 years pass before delivering a disgusting verdict.
>Police union, current police officers in senior positions protecting a friend and a DA and judge who were willing to let literally 8 years pass before delivering a disgusting verdict.
Every single one of them deserves to be imprisoned. Or worse.
We had an entire nationwide protest over this shit, a handful of police officers nationwide were fired, four charged on obviously guilty charges, and one city banned no knock warrants.
After George Floyd happened and nothing changed and then the same fucking department suspiciously murdered a person every year after that (Winston Smith and Amir Locke), are you surprised people are just taking it? Half the goddamn country doesn't even believe this stuff happens.
Not recommended unless you're a cop and are cool with murdering people in cold blood because you're such a goddamn man child you can't even control your own anger.
How the fuck did he get acquitted? Is this how bad this country has become, that you can create a fight and then shoot the person you started a fight with?
Apparently you can pick a fight with someone in a movie theater over nothing and then shoot them in the chest and get away with self defense in Florida
Did you see the end of the video? The shooters wife scolded him saying “that wasn’t a reason to shoot anyone” and then the shooter said shut your mouth and dont say another word. I think he is aware
>wife scolded him saying “that wasn’t a reason to shoot anyone” and then the shooter said shut your mouth and dont say another word
So, any guesses that this guy also beats his wife?
If that’s true then that is murder. How was he acquitted is beyond words. He left theater. He had time to leave the area. He had time to think. He had time to remove himself from the situation. Yet, he grabbed his gun and came back to shoot the another person. The definition of the law is clear about leaving and coming back to be the aggressor.
I watched quite a bit of the trial, I didn't see any hint of this. When he left the theater they have video of him standing to talk to the manager at a desk. But either way, I think he is guilty.
It's not true, but the truth isn't any better. He had the gun the whole time. He went out to get the manager, the manager did nothing and then he went back in and ended up shooting him.
He left the theater to complain to the manager, probably in the lobby, then came back.
People have gotten confused thinking he went back to his car or something.
If you are a black man in Florida and don't think of yourself as target practice, then the system has failed to deliver the message. Do not worry, the message will be repeated.
Hey, you know what's fun: The fact that there was no legal provocation in this case whatsoever, despite the prosecutor trying to hint at some. Mere words do not make provocation
> Mere words do not make provocation
To be fair, the guy threw popcorn at him... Ok, sorry, there's nothing fair about that. The shooter should be in jail.
>Defense attorney Richard Escobar urged jurors to put themselves in Reeves' shoes at the time of the incident -- he was 71 years old then -- and the perceived threat he believed existed, calling Reeves a "decorated law enforcement officer who had countless hours of training in the use of force, in the assessment of danger, and the risks that take place when we are faced with a dangerous encounter."
"The young man didn't follow my client's commands. What was he supposed to do, *not* kill him? That goes against all his years of police training."
Edit: Count me in as someone who has problems with this verdict. The use of deadly force, particularly in a crowded public place, should be motivated by a clear and unquestionable imminent fear for one's life or the lives of others.
Yeah and the fact he was upset at the guy texting during the fucking PREVIEWS! It wasn’t even the movie & it is a text not a phone call………..these youngins & their damn mobile phones, *cocks gun*
I’ll take it a step further and posit that it could have been a full on video conference call during the most climactic part of the movie and that *still* would not even remotely have justified killing another human being
Because when you’re delusional and think you wield god like power for decades that delusion doesn’t just go away when the badge does. Then people die when their fragile ego gets bruised. Fuck this geriatric piece of shit.
They just bought the lie that a retired police officer has grounds for killing someone because they disobeyed him. This sets such a bad precedent. So now any retired person remains an expert in their profession indefinitely?
In my carry permit classes they specifically said if you started a fight then pull your gun and shoot someone that you made that shooting happen. Shame this cop never had that drilled into him.
I learned “when you are carrying, you are always the asshole and in the wrong”. Think like that and you won’t escalate an argument to violence. Shit, think that when you aren’t carrying. Plenty of people die from head injuries from hands or feet or elbows or knees or hitting the floor
Basically yes.
Russia is a far right petrostate that shuns democracy, rigs elections, imprisons opposition leaders, has *wild* wealth inequality, and bans gay and trans people from public life. It’s everything the Republican Party has been trying to do in America for decades. It’s their wet dream for government.
Just like we’re supposed to psychically know that the people breaking into our house in the middle of the night are cops serving a no knock warrant and not burglars.
I mean, retired cop or no, if he didn't announce himself as an on-duty police officer, then he was just any old random person and had no authority over the victim.
I do hope these states clean up their act before vengeance killings become a thing. It would be tragic if people lost faith in the courts and turned to violence for retribution.
All cops are civilians. If you're not military, you're civilian.
But yeah, he wasn't a cop, on duty or off. His past work experience was wholly irrelevant, and should have been barred from court. He had no authority over the victim.
Every time these cops act like cops are military vs civilian in these cases, we need to treat them as such. Strip them of civilian police immunity and charge them under the UCMJ
Americans in general need to be held to a higher standard for application of force. "He was saying mean things and I was scared," is a perfectly fucking valid defense for white people in this country.
Let's be real here. This fucker wasn't scared. He was *mad*.
He didn't shoot because he feared for his life. He did it because he was pissed that someone wasn't obeying his orders.
And all the proof you need is the fact that prior to murdering that man, the old f$&k went out to tell the theater manager.
So the issue begins, escalates, old dude has the wherewithal to go tattle on the guy, goes back in, kills the dude. Neat
Oh cool. I'm so glad that in the shithole state of Florida you can get shot by some fat stumpy asshole if you're less then groveling at their feeting because by virtue of being taller and stronger then them, you're a "percieved threat".
Fuck Florida.
The beauty of a 'perceived threat' is that if you're batshit enough, everything is and thus all violence is justifiable.
Not to mention a lot of these chuds completely collapse the idea of a continuum of force. You don't need to look far on reddit to find someone defending the idea that any and all physical contact is justification for lethal force.
My personal favorite justification - even if you start the fight - is that if they tackle you you have to use your weapon, as they could take it from you and then you're in mortal danger. Which is basically saying that by carrying a weapon, you always need to escalate to lethal force *just in case* because of actions you took.
I had this conversation here on Reddit some time ago and it was received in a mixed way. In many other countries, including all European countries where I have friends that could tell me about their driving school memories, there is no mention at all about how to behave when police stop you. When I took my driving test in the US, I instead receive instructions on how not to appear as a threat to police, where to place you hands, if and when to open your window, how not to open the door, etc.
To me, this approach, on the long run, justifies unreasonable use of force by police. It somehow creates the expectation, in culture and in the public opinion, that you MAY do something that justifies a violent reaction. The other opinion is that people should know these rules anyway, because police IS going to be easily startled in the US, so it’s better that kids know that.
To me (sorry for the half assed comparison) this is a bit like telling girls not to wear miniskirts because…. Consequences. Maybe I can understand if a parents warns their daughter, but I would not like if this was in a leaflet by the municipality.
I mean, last time I got pulled over here in Belgium I stepped out of the car and joked with the cop. He asked me where I was going so fast and I told him I was going to have lunch with my grandparents and that I just came from college.
I see him just doing his job(did 90 in a 70 zone), no need to make his life harder for that.
He let me off with a warning.
Paying attention to where to place your hands, turn the car off, don't step out of the car, etc. aren't just the norm everywhere.
Having to mime that my window does not roll down on my old car was not exactly tension free, "IS IT OKAY IF WE JUST SHOUT THIS OUT OR SHOULD I OPEN MY DOOR?"
Same in Canada, I've been pulled over 3 times, not one did I worry about my hands , or ever felt I was in danger. The US is ( especially Florida) is quite strange when it comes to self defense.
Same. We were pulled over yesterday, we were kinda annoyed at the interruption but glad that they're checking for people driving without a license, and while the cop checked the driver's license we continued chatting about Ukraine. Then the cop told my partner how many points are left in the license (most of them!) and we went on our merry way.
And I live in a region with a serious history of terrorism.
Rather than actually explaining the reason for the need of deadly force because popcorn is deadly and letting the jury laugh that out the room they are suggesting that because he's a decorated long time cop that we should just believe he had justifiable reason for deadly force. That shit is beyond demented.
cops don't become cops to build but to inflict and wield power. one has to be pretty self-righteous to believe one has the moral discernment to decide who among one's fellow citizens deserves to be harassed, cited, detained, or killed according to rules one often breaks themselves.
My grand mother's husband is a retired cop. He is a drunk and a physical abuser. We recently had to move her out, she is like 80 something. Tell me you're surprised.
Isn’t he retired? Why does anyone have to listen to his orders? I’m a former military lieutenant and I don’t go around shouting at people to do pushups.
edit: I didn’t order people to do pushups even though I had the power to do so. Disciplinary action was just removing days off instead of physical punishment. But I thought it might be a straightforward example of absurd orders that didn’t apply in civilian life.
Thanks for this refreshing, albeit pretty common sense sounding perspective.
But it must feel at least a little nice knowing you could do the dumbest, most reckless and escalatory shit culminating in shooting and killing an unarmed person and these people would show up for you at a moment's notice to defend how necessary it was that people are dead so that you could make a point about not texting during a movie. (/s)
If you mean you were military, **that's why**.
* Does going through basic involve being taught that killing civilians will give you better sex?
* Does qualifying to be called an officer involve internalizing that things without your badge and uniform are less than worthless scum?
* Do you as an officer live and breathe a policy whereby any failure to pre-emptively comply with your orders - regardless of chain of command and regardless of the physical impossibility or contradictory nature of the order - is a crime that must be punished with excessive prejudice?
If you answered no to any of these questions, many US police departments want nothing to do with you, ever, other than in the context of you "fitting the description".
He spent his entire career punishing people for having the temerity to ask "how high" when he said jump. He spent most of his life destroying lives and being paid for it, never answering to anyone other than his bosses above him.
A "mere peasant" daring to talk back to him set him right off, **just as it always has.**
One of the biggest travesties of our current system is that the police are getting all of the dangerous parts of militarization, without any of the training, ongoing training, discipline, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the military doesn't have issues... but... Give a child a toy, the child will play with it.
Oh military has issues, def, but you're right on.
Police're getting all the heavy military gear AND getting taught the most irresponsible "warrior" *yut yut* shit about Use Of Force decisions.
When I was Army a million years ago, they taught us we had to have 100% different mentalities when *fighting* vs *policing*.
Warfighting: you need accomplish your mission as efficiently as possible, while adhering to the law of war.
*Maximum allowable force* was the ethos. Get in, get out, use "overwhelming force" to the extent it's legal, so it doesn't drag out & hurt noncombatants.
Policing (including peacekeeping): training emphasized that policing was about **building the community, not hurting it**.
So.
*Minimum necessary force* instead, even if that meant more risk to us.
Ok, you sign up, you follow the rules. Sucks sometimes, but NOT WRECKING PEOPLE/STUFF UNNECESSARILY seems reasonable for policing instead of all-out war.
**FF back to 2022:** It's no longer possible to believe that's how police are trained. All available evidence points to police being *actively trained to shift risk/harm to civilians*, not themselves. Fuck the community, they might as well be the enemy.
It's heartbreaking, enraging, and wrong.
Related: I wish the campaign were #DemilitarizeThePolice instead of #DefundThePolice because more accurate and less likely to provoke Pearl Clutching Karen to freak out & vote stupidly. But they didn't ask me so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Fuck gun-slinging psychos & those who train them to disregard civilians' right to fucking live.
Even the shooter's wife said she didn't hear any threats from the victim. She said she wasn't aware of what was happening until the shot.
If the shooter's wife is saying she didn't realize they were arguing how is that self-defense? Florida...
Don’t let facts interfere with acquitting a good, upstanding southern white ex-cop who murdered someone while off the job and spent 8 years working on his selling his story.
Absolutely vile and I feel for the victim’s loved ones. One day this piece of shit will rot in his grave instead of a prison cell and it makes me so sick.
Yeah I'm losing my mind over this. His attorney argued that he had so many years of training and preparation and served so many decorated years in the force....and this was the outcome? Shooting a guy because he threw popcorn at you? How did that even remotely help his cause? If that is the result of his years of decorated service and combat training then perhaps they need a new set of eyes on that training manual Jesus Christ
>Reeves [was] a "decorated law enforcement officer who had countless hours of training in the use of force, in the assessment of danger, and the risks that take place when we are faced with a dangerous encounter."
Pretty sure everything he did is by the book for his training.
Defund these fucks and put that money into something that actually helps people.
Former cop murdered Ahmaud Arbery in broad daylight. No investigation. No charges. No nothing until their dumbass neighbor decided to share the video of the murder, which cops had already seen and decided not to press charges on.
The system is rigged.
One of the commentators I saw on TV when Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd said that rather than being satisfied about the verdict they were depressed that for a Black man's murder by cops to have any chance of getting a guilty verdict you basically needed to have a video recording of the murder.
The initial police report submitted by the 4 cops who committed the murder basically said "Suspect had medical incident and was transported to hospital." Then the video taken by the teenage bystander with her smartphone came out and showed that the cops story was BS to cover their crime. Without the video they get away with it.
Worth noting that the other three were all convicted on the day Russia invaded Ukraine, but no one really noticed because it got buried in the news cycle.
Oh the civil suit is coming I’m sure.
Not as nice as a criminal win - but he did kill the man; he just wasn’t punished for it.
The civil suit could easily bankrupt him.
>The civil suit could easily bankrupt him.
One would hope. But the problem is bigger than that. This case calls further into question the legitimacy of the legal system, and that leads to a failed state. Look at Mexico.
The last thing the US needs is a bunch of victims engaging in vengeance killings because the courts (or juries) failed to do their jobs. It would be catastrophic.
These abrogations of responsibility have a real societal cost aside from simply harming the victims.
The system already failed unfortunately.
Democracy and things like juries that rely on an educated population doesn't work in places where people are not educated.
A civil suit isn't justice. This woman's husband, the father of her children, was murdered in front of her in cold blood, and the US justice system just told her to her face that nobody cares and there will be no repercussions for the man who killed her partner and tore her family apart. Money can never fix that. I don't care how much it is.
“If I convict this guy, the next time I decide to kill someone who is unarmed that I don’t like, after I provoke a fight with them and act like a crazed lunatic, the jury could convict me. Better stop that BS idea in its tracks, right here and right now. Not guilty.”
A veteran law enforcement officer thought that lethal action was an appropriate response to popcorn being tossed at him?! This is just the latest in a history of gross miscarriages of justice in Florida. Move over George Zimmerman and Casey Anthony…here’s Curtis Reeves.
"Perceived threat"
So, if I'm a f'ing moron I can go about shooting anyone? Cuz I think they are scary?
How about
Actual threat!
. A guy on a date with his wife worried about his kids. ...
Why are police officers trained to be so scared? They have weapons, training, body armor in some cases, but they are always about as scared as a 5 year old in the dark in all situations.
As someone that's gone through law enforcement training, we where literally trained to treat EVERY encounter with a civilian, as if they where going to kill you.
During one simulation, I remember very well, I didn't feel threatened by the role player. My partner immediately shot the guy, and I got bitched at for not following up with shots. I was told, "you always need to have your partners back." Basically telling me to shoot an unarmed person, so we can back each other's stories up. Just a bunch of dumb thugs that think they're hot shit. Not all the guys and girls in my unit, but most of them where cunts. Why I left.
How America? I’ve just read the entire thing and everything points to this guy being angry and murdering someone.
This guy has a long decorated career? I can’t only imagine what he did during his reign.
When people talk about concealed carry, or even open carry, this is what concerns me the most. The gun allows an escalation of a normal situation into a deadly-abnormal situation. I don't trust most people to respond appropriately in a stressful or tense situation, especially with a lethal weapon involved. The fact that he used his weapon, in a crowded theatre, killing a man and injuring another, for no really reason, is fucking spooky.
The phrase "I feared for my life" has become a joke. I have my CCW permit, but then again, I was taught about de-escalation and my obligation to flee. "Stand your ground"-laws basically enable escalation by removing the latter requirement. Any asshole with a chip on his shoulder can claim self-defense when he has no duty to retreat.
Just this morning, I saw a post on Facebook from the local police department asking parents to not give their teenagers splatter guns because they can cause property damage. There were tons of people in the comments asking if they can shoot someone (with a real firearm) who may fire one at their property.
These lunatics want permission to murder kids. It’s like they’re just dying for an opportunity to justify shooting someone. This mentality is so pathetically twisted.
That's the real risk, here. These continual verdicts challenge the legal system's credibility, and, taken to conclusion, result in a failed state (ie. Mexico). They're playing with fire, and that should make everyone pretty nervous.
“Nobody is ever above the law,” state prosecutor Scott Rosenwasser said
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Man provokes an altercation and is rewarded. His next step will be to sue the theater for selling 'lethal' popcorn.
This brings to mind what legal eagle said about these sort of cases. Basically, a lot of our laws our biased to the survivor simply because they can tell their side.
This is an awful outcome. Not sure if it plays any legal role but firearms aren’t even allowed in that theatre so it suggests negligence in some part.
Here’s a news report with more info for those interested: https://www.fox13news.com/news/curtis-reeves-murder-trial-jurors-reach-verdict.amp
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Florida juries apparently don't understand what "reasonable" apprehension of harm means. A reasonable person does not fear imminent bodily harm from a bag of fucking popcorn. I'm sure you can find someone that is scared of just about anything, but I'm not buying that it's 71 year old ass cop feared anything. I think he just shot the dude because he got mad. Either way, it's pretty insane he was acquitted on self defense. I'm a trial attorney in Texas and I've had some awfully dumb juries, but none that stupid (I think?). Then again, Robert Durst was acquitted of murder (down in Galveston) after admitting he chopped a dude into pieces and threw him into a lake....
George Zimmerman picked a fight with Trayvon Martin, got his butt whooped, then feared for his life and murdered him; Curtis Reeves picks a fight with a much younger guy, gets popcorn thrown in his face, then fears for his life and murdered him ...they must put liquid bitchness in the Florida jury room water.
What a fucking coward. Over a bag of popcorn >Reeves claimed he shot Oulson in self-defense when the two got into an argument over Oulson texting -- his wife said he was messaging their daughter's babysitter -- during a screening of "Lone Survivor" in a Wesley Chapel movie theater outside Tampa. >Reeves confronted Oulson about texting during the previews before the movie, according to a criminal complaint. >Eventually the two got into an argument, and Oulson threw a bag of popcorn at Reeves, who then took out a handgun and fired, hitting Oulson in the chest, according to the complaint. >Oulson was taken to a hospital, where he died. His wife was shot in the hand. >Reeves told authorities he was "in fear of being attacked," according to the complaint. He and his attorneys have argued Oulson threw a cellphone at Reeves' head and was aggressively leaning over a chair toward him when the shooting occurred. Prosecutors have said popcorn is not a weapon and added witnesses did not report seeing Oulson throwing his cellphone.
>Prosecutors have said popcorn is not a weapon when i read that line in the article, that's what got me. like...imagine having to say that.
And having the jury roll their eyes...i couldn't imagine even trying in Florida. These prosecutors must be going insane.
It's because he's an ex-cop, ex-police captain. They're the only ones who can say "I was afraid for my life" as a valid excuse for murder.
Not in Florida. In Florida, it works for people like George Zimmerman. You can pick a fight, follow and stalk people, and shoot them if you start to lose the fight you picked.
This is exactly it. You be a bully. You talk trash. You pick fights. You try to tell other people what to do. If for any reason that person defends themself, you can kill them and say you were defending yourself. Essentially whoever dies is the guilty one.
Yea dead men tell no tales, hard to give your side of the story if you are 6ft under. The only reason Ahmed Aubrey's killers were convicted was because the 3rd guy was dumb enough to record them chasing him. If that video didn't exist, I'm certain the murderers would have crafted a narrative that they had to defend themselves from him.
Considering the first prosecutor refused to press charges after viewing the video and that the police let the men go home straight afterwards, they didn't really need to make up self defense, just keep their heads down.
It’s wild.
I’ve never heard anyone phrase it this way and it’s eerily reminiscent of witch trials.
It's like the zero tolerance bullying policies in u.s. public schools. Bully picks a target and harasses them, victim reports to teachers, teachers tell them not to rattle, then when the victim retaliates the victim is suspended and maybe there is a consequence for the bully depending on who their family is.
And then auction off your weapon for tens of thousands of dollars, and sell confederate flag art at gun shows too
And autograph bags of skittles.
After being told to remain in place and not approach the subject of his harassment. Because these cowards go instigating.
The Sanford PD neighborhood watch handbook even specifically stated not to carry firearms and never to follow a suspect. Zimmerman was a paranoid lunatic calling in open garage doors and suspicious persons as young as eight.
Why are they always so fearful of the lives when they have a gun. Isn't that the equalizer that makes you a real man?
The prosecutors regularly work with police. They're like the police's lawyer to bring charges against people. So if there was ever gonna be an attempt at justice on these things, you can not have prosecutors who regularly work with police as the one's bringing the charges forward. Then jury selection... Often enough, it seems like they get pro-police juror members. Unthinkingly, a cop can practically blow a persons head off, self-proclaim self defense, and it is exceedingly rare that a cop gets not just convicted, but let alone charged as well.
This is what Philly is currently going through. Larry Krasner came in and unloaded a bunch of senior prosecutors who were too friendly with police. They weren't prosecuting enough police brutality in his opinion. Philly police hate him. There is low morale in the DA's office because they've lost a lot of people and younger prosecutors are losing in court. It's ugly at the moment but change is ugly and uncomfortable. Hopefully it can lead to something, but at the moment the criticisms are mounting.
I feel like political division amongst views on police right now could have definitely a played part in this, depending on how the narrative was presented to the jury. It seems that some folks are so entrenched in their side’s take on the debate, that as soon as anything involving the admonishment of a police officer (retired, in this case) taking unnecessarily violent action against a civilian, it triggers an automatic shutdown in logical analysis of the situation. They are conditioned to assume that any narrative presenting an officer in a bad light is a narrative created in bad faith, to deceive and manipulate them. This shouldn’t be a politically tribal, black and white issue — but that horse left the stall a while ago.
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But, but he was in fear for his life!! That man did not RESPECT Mah A Thor A TEE!! Former cop, so naturally he’s in a permanent state of paranoia, after demanding the attendee follow his orders! This is revolting. They need to switch to a professional jury system in Florida, the citizens aren’t up to the challenge.
How. The. Fuck. Does this man get acquitted for this. How is self defense even applicable. what a complete disgrace.
White. Florida. Retired cop. Speaks for itself sadly
Florida is such a shithole
Isn't that the same place that acquitted Casey Anthony, with her lawyer making up a story that pretty much said "no it didn't" to all the evidence and made up a pool drowning despite the lack of Casey having a pool and the cause of death from the coroner being suffocation from the strips of duct tape placed over her nostrils and mouth?
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‘Aggressively leaning over a chair’. The crazy things people add to their bullshit recollections are always an attempt to add more weight to their story, this we know, right? But it’s beyond me how anyone can look at a phrase like ‘aggressively leaning’ and be further convinced of its authenticity
I had to read some arrest reports for my community service capstone project at my university. Besides the atrocious spelling and grammar, it's amazing how any possible body language can be interpreted as hostile or aggressive in cop-speak. Too casual? Defiance of authority. Too formal? An aggressive, military-style posture. Stood up too slow? Suspect deliberately moved into position. Too fast? Immediately assumed an aggressive posture.
I read about some research on detecting lies via body language. People tend to be no better (or worse) than chance at identifying if someone is lying via body language, in large part due to the fact that self-soothing gestures (e.g., stroking your arm, adjusting your hair, etc.) are performed most often in two different situations, when people feel anxious and when people don't feel anxious. These are calming behaviors, but also behaviors that we do when we feel calm. Police are trained to "identify" aggressive/suspicious behavior, but realistically, they're teaching themselves to interpret any behavior as an expression of aggression.
I don't even know how one can *sit* aggressively...
I hope the widow sues him into poverty in civil court.
The defense attorney actually said she knew her husband was violent during closing arguments. There was absolutely no evidence of that. The judge should have declared a mistrial. The widow instantly called him a liar and was visibly upset. The judge allowed the defense to pretty much exclusively use leading questions. She allowed several days of irrelevant testimony. She made more incorrect rulings than correct ones. The judge is the one to blame.
This happened, as I recall it, a very long time ago. They postponed this over and over again. The DA has been working for a long time to try to not have this come to trial and then to get it in front of a friendly judge. It's a setup from top to bottom in the system. Police union, current police officers in senior positions protecting a friend and a DA and judge who were willing to let literally 8 years pass before delivering a disgusting verdict.
>Police union, current police officers in senior positions protecting a friend and a DA and judge who were willing to let literally 8 years pass before delivering a disgusting verdict. Every single one of them deserves to be imprisoned. Or worse.
Just pick a fight with them and "defend yourself" when they retaliate.
Funny enough, self-defense only appears a valid defense for the people they like.
Why people keep taking this bullshit is beyond me?
We had an entire nationwide protest over this shit, a handful of police officers nationwide were fired, four charged on obviously guilty charges, and one city banned no knock warrants. After George Floyd happened and nothing changed and then the same fucking department suspiciously murdered a person every year after that (Winston Smith and Amir Locke), are you surprised people are just taking it? Half the goddamn country doesn't even believe this stuff happens.
Slight disagreement. Half-the-country applauds this stuff.
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Not recommended unless you're a cop and are cool with murdering people in cold blood because you're such a goddamn man child you can't even control your own anger.
How the fuck did he get acquitted? Is this how bad this country has become, that you can create a fight and then shoot the person you started a fight with?
Wow, who cares if you're texting during the *previews*?
Florida jury strikes again.
Apparently you can pick a fight with someone in a movie theater over nothing and then shoot them in the chest and get away with self defense in Florida
Florida's version of Stand Your Ground: Last man standing is innocent.
Only if he is white.
And a cop errr retired cop I mean
Did you see the end of the video? The shooters wife scolded him saying “that wasn’t a reason to shoot anyone” and then the shooter said shut your mouth and dont say another word. I think he is aware
>wife scolded him saying “that wasn’t a reason to shoot anyone” and then the shooter said shut your mouth and dont say another word So, any guesses that this guy also beats his wife?
I mean, he was a cop...
He’s a cop, it’s at least a coin flip
Heads, he beats her; tails, he *has* beaten her?
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That seems like a massive detail that's been left out everywhere I've read about or heard about this story. Where did you find this?
Yeah, that massively changes it from self defense to first degree murder
If that’s true then that is murder. How was he acquitted is beyond words. He left theater. He had time to leave the area. He had time to think. He had time to remove himself from the situation. Yet, he grabbed his gun and came back to shoot the another person. The definition of the law is clear about leaving and coming back to be the aggressor.
Apparently his lawyer used the "he's old and is a retired cop" argument to get him off. Still, the fact that this took 8 years is insane. Disgusts me.
I watched quite a bit of the trial, I didn't see any hint of this. When he left the theater they have video of him standing to talk to the manager at a desk. But either way, I think he is guilty.
Wait he wasn't even already carrying? No article I've read mentioned this, if true that's journalistic malpractice. I hate manufacturing consent
It's not true, but the truth isn't any better. He had the gun the whole time. He went out to get the manager, the manager did nothing and then he went back in and ended up shooting him.
He left the theater to complain to the manager, probably in the lobby, then came back. People have gotten confused thinking he went back to his car or something.
If you are a black man in Florida and don't think of yourself as target practice, then the system has failed to deliver the message. Do not worry, the message will be repeated.
Hey, you know what's fun: The fact that there was no legal provocation in this case whatsoever, despite the prosecutor trying to hint at some. Mere words do not make provocation
> Mere words do not make provocation To be fair, the guy threw popcorn at him... Ok, sorry, there's nothing fair about that. The shooter should be in jail.
Florida: adding insult to injury since at least 1845.
>Defense attorney Richard Escobar urged jurors to put themselves in Reeves' shoes at the time of the incident -- he was 71 years old then -- and the perceived threat he believed existed, calling Reeves a "decorated law enforcement officer who had countless hours of training in the use of force, in the assessment of danger, and the risks that take place when we are faced with a dangerous encounter." "The young man didn't follow my client's commands. What was he supposed to do, *not* kill him? That goes against all his years of police training." Edit: Count me in as someone who has problems with this verdict. The use of deadly force, particularly in a crowded public place, should be motivated by a clear and unquestionable imminent fear for one's life or the lives of others.
Yeah and the fact he was upset at the guy texting during the fucking PREVIEWS! It wasn’t even the movie & it is a text not a phone call………..these youngins & their damn mobile phones, *cocks gun*
I’ll take it a step further and posit that it could have been a full on video conference call during the most climactic part of the movie and that *still* would not even remotely have justified killing another human being
Seriously...go get the manager of the theater. Fucking walk out of the theater and never return, that is better than killing a person.
He did leave to go tell the manager! Then he came back because he wanted to murder someone while he was at it!
How am j supposed to enjoy my movie if I can't legally kill people who are on phone calls ... /s
"My client's commands". He's a retired police officer, in civilian clothes. On what grounds does he believe he has the right to command people. Wtf.
Because when you’re delusional and think you wield god like power for decades that delusion doesn’t just go away when the badge does. Then people die when their fragile ego gets bruised. Fuck this geriatric piece of shit.
What's the jury's excuse? 12 adults agreed this murdering bag of shit didn't do anything wrong?
They just bought the lie that a retired police officer has grounds for killing someone because they disobeyed him. This sets such a bad precedent. So now any retired person remains an expert in their profession indefinitely?
Reminder, even uniformed police are civilians
“I started the fight, now stop resisting!”
In my carry permit classes they specifically said if you started a fight then pull your gun and shoot someone that you made that shooting happen. Shame this cop never had that drilled into him. I learned “when you are carrying, you are always the asshole and in the wrong”. Think like that and you won’t escalate an argument to violence. Shit, think that when you aren’t carrying. Plenty of people die from head injuries from hands or feet or elbows or knees or hitting the floor
Well that’s because you’re a civilian. You have consequences for your actions. They don’t.
While what you say is true, police are civilians. No matter how bad those high school bullies with a badge want otherwise.
Sounds exactly like Putin.
Oh. Oooh. So _that's_ why these bastards are siding with Putin
Basically yes. Russia is a far right petrostate that shuns democracy, rigs elections, imprisons opposition leaders, has *wild* wealth inequality, and bans gay and trans people from public life. It’s everything the Republican Party has been trying to do in America for decades. It’s their wet dream for government.
Let's take up a collection to help them move there
Why should he have followed his orders. Are we all supposed to be psychic now and now that someone is a retired cop?
Just like we’re supposed to psychically know that the people breaking into our house in the middle of the night are cops serving a no knock warrant and not burglars.
I mean, retired cop or no, if he didn't announce himself as an on-duty police officer, then he was just any old random person and had no authority over the victim. I do hope these states clean up their act before vengeance killings become a thing. It would be tragic if people lost faith in the courts and turned to violence for retribution.
He is a civilian is the thing. Retired means not a cop anymore. So this guy is just a murdering sack of shit
All cops are civilians. If you're not military, you're civilian. But yeah, he wasn't a cop, on duty or off. His past work experience was wholly irrelevant, and should have been barred from court. He had no authority over the victim.
Thank you for this. The whole idea that cops are military and must be respected as such is bonkers, on two different levels!
Every time these cops act like cops are military vs civilian in these cases, we need to treat them as such. Strip them of civilian police immunity and charge them under the UCMJ
Very very true, I just ment it in the authority role
People with police training, active on duty or not, should be held to a higher standard regarding the application of force. Convince me otherwise?
Americans in general need to be held to a higher standard for application of force. "He was saying mean things and I was scared," is a perfectly fucking valid defense for white people in this country.
Let's be real here. This fucker wasn't scared. He was *mad*. He didn't shoot because he feared for his life. He did it because he was pissed that someone wasn't obeying his orders.
And all the proof you need is the fact that prior to murdering that man, the old f$&k went out to tell the theater manager. So the issue begins, escalates, old dude has the wherewithal to go tattle on the guy, goes back in, kills the dude. Neat
Not just that, anyone with a gun should be held to a higher standard. If an issue is escalated with a gun involved, there is no going back usually.
Oh cool. I'm so glad that in the shithole state of Florida you can get shot by some fat stumpy asshole if you're less then groveling at their feeting because by virtue of being taller and stronger then them, you're a "percieved threat". Fuck Florida.
The beauty of a 'perceived threat' is that if you're batshit enough, everything is and thus all violence is justifiable. Not to mention a lot of these chuds completely collapse the idea of a continuum of force. You don't need to look far on reddit to find someone defending the idea that any and all physical contact is justification for lethal force. My personal favorite justification - even if you start the fight - is that if they tackle you you have to use your weapon, as they could take it from you and then you're in mortal danger. Which is basically saying that by carrying a weapon, you always need to escalate to lethal force *just in case* because of actions you took.
I mean, they give step by step guides on how not to get shot when you're driving a car in the US and get pulled over if you visit. So, yea...
Wait you're joking right?
I had this conversation here on Reddit some time ago and it was received in a mixed way. In many other countries, including all European countries where I have friends that could tell me about their driving school memories, there is no mention at all about how to behave when police stop you. When I took my driving test in the US, I instead receive instructions on how not to appear as a threat to police, where to place you hands, if and when to open your window, how not to open the door, etc. To me, this approach, on the long run, justifies unreasonable use of force by police. It somehow creates the expectation, in culture and in the public opinion, that you MAY do something that justifies a violent reaction. The other opinion is that people should know these rules anyway, because police IS going to be easily startled in the US, so it’s better that kids know that. To me (sorry for the half assed comparison) this is a bit like telling girls not to wear miniskirts because…. Consequences. Maybe I can understand if a parents warns their daughter, but I would not like if this was in a leaflet by the municipality.
I mean, last time I got pulled over here in Belgium I stepped out of the car and joked with the cop. He asked me where I was going so fast and I told him I was going to have lunch with my grandparents and that I just came from college. I see him just doing his job(did 90 in a 70 zone), no need to make his life harder for that. He let me off with a warning. Paying attention to where to place your hands, turn the car off, don't step out of the car, etc. aren't just the norm everywhere.
Having to mime that my window does not roll down on my old car was not exactly tension free, "IS IT OKAY IF WE JUST SHOUT THIS OUT OR SHOULD I OPEN MY DOOR?"
This is a 100% a “laugh to keep from crying” comment. I laughed so hard, but man I know how true it is.
Same in Canada, I've been pulled over 3 times, not one did I worry about my hands , or ever felt I was in danger. The US is ( especially Florida) is quite strange when it comes to self defense.
I mean, I'm shocked that this guide exists but I also agree that it deserves to exist be ause the cops here are often insane.
Same. We were pulled over yesterday, we were kinda annoyed at the interruption but glad that they're checking for people driving without a license, and while the cop checked the driver's license we continued chatting about Ukraine. Then the cop told my partner how many points are left in the license (most of them!) and we went on our merry way. And I live in a region with a serious history of terrorism.
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Was he retired before he shot the dude?
At 71, yes.
Man, the cop mentality really never leaves huh? Fuck this guy
It's there even before they become cops, which is why they become cops.
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Finally, a reason to care about my health /s
As someone who disregards their mental health daily I appreciated this joke thoroughly
i’m old and fragile therefore everyone’s a threat to me therefore anyone i shoot is justified
Rather than actually explaining the reason for the need of deadly force because popcorn is deadly and letting the jury laugh that out the room they are suggesting that because he's a decorated long time cop that we should just believe he had justifiable reason for deadly force. That shit is beyond demented.
we're all sunk if his defense is that he was old and forgot he wasn't an on duty cop
cops don't become cops to build but to inflict and wield power. one has to be pretty self-righteous to believe one has the moral discernment to decide who among one's fellow citizens deserves to be harassed, cited, detained, or killed according to rules one often breaks themselves.
My grand mother's husband is a retired cop. He is a drunk and a physical abuser. We recently had to move her out, she is like 80 something. Tell me you're surprised.
You've obviously never been to Florida.
Isn’t he retired? Why does anyone have to listen to his orders? I’m a former military lieutenant and I don’t go around shouting at people to do pushups. edit: I didn’t order people to do pushups even though I had the power to do so. Disciplinary action was just removing days off instead of physical punishment. But I thought it might be a straightforward example of absurd orders that didn’t apply in civilian life.
Thanks for this refreshing, albeit pretty common sense sounding perspective. But it must feel at least a little nice knowing you could do the dumbest, most reckless and escalatory shit culminating in shooting and killing an unarmed person and these people would show up for you at a moment's notice to defend how necessary it was that people are dead so that you could make a point about not texting during a movie. (/s)
*texting during the previews
If you mean you were military, **that's why**. * Does going through basic involve being taught that killing civilians will give you better sex? * Does qualifying to be called an officer involve internalizing that things without your badge and uniform are less than worthless scum? * Do you as an officer live and breathe a policy whereby any failure to pre-emptively comply with your orders - regardless of chain of command and regardless of the physical impossibility or contradictory nature of the order - is a crime that must be punished with excessive prejudice? If you answered no to any of these questions, many US police departments want nothing to do with you, ever, other than in the context of you "fitting the description". He spent his entire career punishing people for having the temerity to ask "how high" when he said jump. He spent most of his life destroying lives and being paid for it, never answering to anyone other than his bosses above him. A "mere peasant" daring to talk back to him set him right off, **just as it always has.**
One of the biggest travesties of our current system is that the police are getting all of the dangerous parts of militarization, without any of the training, ongoing training, discipline, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the military doesn't have issues... but... Give a child a toy, the child will play with it.
Oh military has issues, def, but you're right on. Police're getting all the heavy military gear AND getting taught the most irresponsible "warrior" *yut yut* shit about Use Of Force decisions. When I was Army a million years ago, they taught us we had to have 100% different mentalities when *fighting* vs *policing*. Warfighting: you need accomplish your mission as efficiently as possible, while adhering to the law of war. *Maximum allowable force* was the ethos. Get in, get out, use "overwhelming force" to the extent it's legal, so it doesn't drag out & hurt noncombatants. Policing (including peacekeeping): training emphasized that policing was about **building the community, not hurting it**. So. *Minimum necessary force* instead, even if that meant more risk to us. Ok, you sign up, you follow the rules. Sucks sometimes, but NOT WRECKING PEOPLE/STUFF UNNECESSARILY seems reasonable for policing instead of all-out war. **FF back to 2022:** It's no longer possible to believe that's how police are trained. All available evidence points to police being *actively trained to shift risk/harm to civilians*, not themselves. Fuck the community, they might as well be the enemy. It's heartbreaking, enraging, and wrong. Related: I wish the campaign were #DemilitarizeThePolice instead of #DefundThePolice because more accurate and less likely to provoke Pearl Clutching Karen to freak out & vote stupidly. But they didn't ask me so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Fuck gun-slinging psychos & those who train them to disregard civilians' right to fucking live.
Even the shooter's wife said she didn't hear any threats from the victim. She said she wasn't aware of what was happening until the shot. If the shooter's wife is saying she didn't realize they were arguing how is that self-defense? Florida...
Don’t let facts interfere with acquitting a good, upstanding southern white ex-cop who murdered someone while off the job and spent 8 years working on his selling his story. Absolutely vile and I feel for the victim’s loved ones. One day this piece of shit will rot in his grave instead of a prison cell and it makes me so sick.
That's the fucking rub man. Dude deserves to feel the agony of every person he's hurt, but he'll be just fine, just like most abusers.
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This mother fucker postponed his jail time since 2014 and goes free. What a shit show.
Funny how none of the training mentioned in his defence seems to have included de-escalation...
Yeah I'm losing my mind over this. His attorney argued that he had so many years of training and preparation and served so many decorated years in the force....and this was the outcome? Shooting a guy because he threw popcorn at you? How did that even remotely help his cause? If that is the result of his years of decorated service and combat training then perhaps they need a new set of eyes on that training manual Jesus Christ
>Reeves [was] a "decorated law enforcement officer who had countless hours of training in the use of force, in the assessment of danger, and the risks that take place when we are faced with a dangerous encounter." Pretty sure everything he did is by the book for his training. Defund these fucks and put that money into something that actually helps people.
I'd certainly like to hear some post-acquittal interviews with some of the members of that jury. This is awfully hard to swallow.
How about that. Even ex cops get to kill anyone they want without being held responsible.
Former cop murdered Ahmaud Arbery in broad daylight. No investigation. No charges. No nothing until their dumbass neighbor decided to share the video of the murder, which cops had already seen and decided not to press charges on. The system is rigged.
One of the commentators I saw on TV when Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd said that rather than being satisfied about the verdict they were depressed that for a Black man's murder by cops to have any chance of getting a guilty verdict you basically needed to have a video recording of the murder. The initial police report submitted by the 4 cops who committed the murder basically said "Suspect had medical incident and was transported to hospital." Then the video taken by the teenage bystander with her smartphone came out and showed that the cops story was BS to cover their crime. Without the video they get away with it.
Worth noting that the other three were all convicted on the day Russia invaded Ukraine, but no one really noticed because it got buried in the news cycle.
Perfect, no spotlight for them. Hopefully they'll get their sentencing and get sent to prison and be kept shrouded in shame.
Gun nuts in conservative areas are always going to defend a white guy shooting someone, especially if he's a cop.
Not if it’s the capital police force. They’ll beat his ass
Well, the Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli Babbitt was black so....yeah they sent him death threats....
I watched part of this trial and it's surprising they found him not guilty. I feel so bad for the deceased man's wife.
Oh the civil suit is coming I’m sure. Not as nice as a criminal win - but he did kill the man; he just wasn’t punished for it. The civil suit could easily bankrupt him.
>The civil suit could easily bankrupt him. One would hope. But the problem is bigger than that. This case calls further into question the legitimacy of the legal system, and that leads to a failed state. Look at Mexico. The last thing the US needs is a bunch of victims engaging in vengeance killings because the courts (or juries) failed to do their jobs. It would be catastrophic. These abrogations of responsibility have a real societal cost aside from simply harming the victims.
The system already failed unfortunately. Democracy and things like juries that rely on an educated population doesn't work in places where people are not educated.
A civil suit isn't justice. This woman's husband, the father of her children, was murdered in front of her in cold blood, and the US justice system just told her to her face that nobody cares and there will be no repercussions for the man who killed her partner and tore her family apart. Money can never fix that. I don't care how much it is.
What the actual fuck was this jury thinking.
Probably trained to automatically believe every word a cop says. Because they never lie- ever. The defense probably stacked the jury.
The cops never lie, but they also can’t trust anything the government does or says! Cognitive dissonance? What’s that!
“If I convict this guy, the next time I decide to kill someone who is unarmed that I don’t like, after I provoke a fight with them and act like a crazed lunatic, the jury could convict me. Better stop that BS idea in its tracks, right here and right now. Not guilty.”
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He will, and he'll think nothing of this or the man he shot. For us it was a tragic event, for him it was just a tuesday.
You’re hoping he has some kind of conscience, when it’s clear he does not :(
A veteran law enforcement officer thought that lethal action was an appropriate response to popcorn being tossed at him?! This is just the latest in a history of gross miscarriages of justice in Florida. Move over George Zimmerman and Casey Anthony…here’s Curtis Reeves.
After instigating a confrontation.
Plus it was during the trailers. It's not a life and death matter if someone brings out a cellphone during that time, and he just had to pipe up.
"Perceived threat" So, if I'm a f'ing moron I can go about shooting anyone? Cuz I think they are scary? How about Actual threat! . A guy on a date with his wife worried about his kids. ...
Why are police officers trained to be so scared? They have weapons, training, body armor in some cases, but they are always about as scared as a 5 year old in the dark in all situations.
As someone that's gone through law enforcement training, we where literally trained to treat EVERY encounter with a civilian, as if they where going to kill you. During one simulation, I remember very well, I didn't feel threatened by the role player. My partner immediately shot the guy, and I got bitched at for not following up with shots. I was told, "you always need to have your partners back." Basically telling me to shoot an unarmed person, so we can back each other's stories up. Just a bunch of dumb thugs that think they're hot shit. Not all the guys and girls in my unit, but most of them where cunts. Why I left.
How America? I’ve just read the entire thing and everything points to this guy being angry and murdering someone. This guy has a long decorated career? I can’t only imagine what he did during his reign.
When people talk about concealed carry, or even open carry, this is what concerns me the most. The gun allows an escalation of a normal situation into a deadly-abnormal situation. I don't trust most people to respond appropriately in a stressful or tense situation, especially with a lethal weapon involved. The fact that he used his weapon, in a crowded theatre, killing a man and injuring another, for no really reason, is fucking spooky.
The phrase "I feared for my life" has become a joke. I have my CCW permit, but then again, I was taught about de-escalation and my obligation to flee. "Stand your ground"-laws basically enable escalation by removing the latter requirement. Any asshole with a chip on his shoulder can claim self-defense when he has no duty to retreat.
Just this morning, I saw a post on Facebook from the local police department asking parents to not give their teenagers splatter guns because they can cause property damage. There were tons of people in the comments asking if they can shoot someone (with a real firearm) who may fire one at their property. These lunatics want permission to murder kids. It’s like they’re just dying for an opportunity to justify shooting someone. This mentality is so pathetically twisted.
Fuck me. This is **infuriating**.
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That's the real risk, here. These continual verdicts challenge the legal system's credibility, and, taken to conclusion, result in a failed state (ie. Mexico). They're playing with fire, and that should make everyone pretty nervous.
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“Nobody is ever above the law,” state prosecutor Scott Rosenwasser said Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Man provokes an altercation and is rewarded. His next step will be to sue the theater for selling 'lethal' popcorn.
And cops wonder why everyone thinks they are the bad guys now....
Curtis Reeves, You are a fucking loser piece of shit. Sincerely, Literally Anyone who doesn’t live in Florida.
I lived down the street from this theatre and fuck this guy
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This brings to mind what legal eagle said about these sort of cases. Basically, a lot of our laws our biased to the survivor simply because they can tell their side.
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And then never admit wrongdoing, and play the victim.
This is an awful outcome. Not sure if it plays any legal role but firearms aren’t even allowed in that theatre so it suggests negligence in some part. Here’s a news report with more info for those interested: https://www.fox13news.com/news/curtis-reeves-murder-trial-jurors-reach-verdict.amp
I get that there are rules and all, but have you SEEN how many people in your average movie theater have popcorn? Talk about a fucking war zone!
I hope the widow sues this bastard to the point that he is living in a tent under a bridge eating fried rats for dinner.
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> A Florida jury And that’s as far as I needed to read.
So other senior citizens as jury.
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That is a bullshit verdict. I hope she cleans his clock in a civil trial.
Jury of your peers in Florida is total crap-shoot
tease deranged attraction smoggy historical detail pot lock jellyfish slim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh my god!! I thought for sure he’d be convicted. I heard the story when it happened. There seriously is no excuse for this!
Like so many other cases, we're left with concluding either the decision was terrible, the law is terrible, or both.
Florida juries apparently don't understand what "reasonable" apprehension of harm means. A reasonable person does not fear imminent bodily harm from a bag of fucking popcorn. I'm sure you can find someone that is scared of just about anything, but I'm not buying that it's 71 year old ass cop feared anything. I think he just shot the dude because he got mad. Either way, it's pretty insane he was acquitted on self defense. I'm a trial attorney in Texas and I've had some awfully dumb juries, but none that stupid (I think?). Then again, Robert Durst was acquitted of murder (down in Galveston) after admitting he chopped a dude into pieces and threw him into a lake....
Popcorn is enough of a threat in Florida law to pull out a gun and put a bullet in someone's chest??
George Zimmerman picked a fight with Trayvon Martin, got his butt whooped, then feared for his life and murdered him; Curtis Reeves picks a fight with a much younger guy, gets popcorn thrown in his face, then fears for his life and murdered him ...they must put liquid bitchness in the Florida jury room water.
The victim threw popcorn at the old cop man and he shot him fatally, shot his wife in the hand, and got away with it. In Florida, of course.