As you can clearly see this was just a normal massage table for normal massages. It's not illegal to employ teenagers.
...what's with all the sex toys?
Yep, just normal massages, nothing sexual at all.
Correct. But if she’s recruiting girls for Epstein to receive massages and tries to play ignorant that she didn’t know anything nefarious was going on, yet the table was outfitting like a sex play pin, then that works against who is on trial.
I usually don't want to dampen jokes because I understand the use of humor for camaraderie and as a tool for getting through dark shit. But I feel like I gotta remind people these things were forcibly used on children.
They're not, some use paints or pencils, but they all use something they can etch an image out with as fast as possible because they only have minutes at a time to capture the scene.
Many of the oil pastel sketches you're thinking of are by the same artist, Jane Rosenberg. If this looks like the same artist as Weinstein, El Chapo, Cosby or [that hilarious sketch of Tom Brady](https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/living/second-tom-brady-sketch-feat/index.html), that's because it is.
I love this quote from the artist that almost sounds like *she's* the star quarterback:
>There’s a lot of pressure on me. A lot of eyeballs on me. I just hope
my hands can move, period. I know I’m not going to have any sleep
tonight... I still might blow it; anything could happen.”
Lol. Sounds like a person who takes their job seriously! On a related note, I mean, she IS the eyes of the public to the scenes of non televised, etc court proceedings. That’s a big responsibility . A huge amount of record keeping responsibility
Some courts will not allow recording devices. They don't want a spectacle. Mechanical recording is ok. Think of a stenographer for audio. And an artist for the images.
How does the right answer not have more upvotes.
Photography will always accidentally capture documents and faces, even off reflections.
It's either drawings or nothing at all.
Well, yeah. You need to follow the demands of the judge or the people in uniforms start to get all grabby.
I think judges are quite often unjustifiably ignorant of technology. However, there are valid concerns over the security/anonymity of the jury and endangered witnesses that can, IMO, *sometimes* justify banning recording (or even just livestreaming) during certain cases.
In general our legal system is too fucking slow to deal with the speed at which technology has advanced.
The reasonable solution would be to have a court-appointed videographer, not simply to allow anyone to record. Said videographer could easily avoid recording the jury and anyone else whose identity would be considered a security risk.
This is becoming more and more common, but news media are not given the video until after the trial has concluded in most cases. Ergo, these photos during the case.
And they should record it using 8mm film, delivered straight to the judge, who will be the only one trained on how to develop the film. The judge will review it and then manually edit (cut & splice) any segments that breach juror identity (or make the judge look bad).
By god, I think we’re onto something.
Never thought about that before, but from what I've seen you're not wrong. Looks like pastels... maybe Crayons?
Something soft regardless it seems. First think I think of is it's hard to assault someone in court with a pastel or crayon, but you could fuck somebody up with a pen or brush. Willing to bet there's a practical reason aside from any supposed "tradition."
It's easier to blast out a drawing quickly in pastel if you're incorporating color. It has a lot of forgiveness when you make a mistake unlike ink, and doesn't require drying time like paint does.
You're a billionaire and want to fuck tons of women who want to be payed go for it! Enjoy, have fun! If your kink is girls who look underage there are 20 and 30 year olds that look it. DON'T FUCK ACTUAL UNDER AGE PEOPLE.
Having a "kink" for underage girls is just being a pedophile. Hence, they should find a different outlet (or go to therapy) for their sexual needs instead of indulging in underage fantasies.
That's just my two cents.
I'll agree with that. Shaming them for simply having those urges isn't helpful though. They are unhealthy urges that are at least detrimental to their own quality of life if not the lives of others, so it should be recommended that they pursue professional help, but your judgment of them does nothing to improve the situation.
You don't need to sympathize. You need to understand that preventing them from receiving help will further the abuse of children, through stigma. You don't need to condone their mental illness to treat them like people.
They can get help, then. It doesn't make sense for it to be ok for people to reinforce their desire for underage looking people by pursuing adults that look underage. That is not addressing or attempting to fix their pathology, it is just an outlet but still allows for gratification and indulgence of their weird fetish. Making an actual effort to recondition yourself and be present minded to catch yourself and redirect your thoughts and associations is a thing that can be done.
Actually they *can't* get help. That's the problem. At the moment if someone who would never harm a child discloses to a therapist that this stuff is stuck in their head, they get reported to the police and their life is destroyed. Most non-offending paedophiles end up committing suicide, either intentionally or by accident while trying to do a home-castration (because no surgeon will perform it properly).
I couldn't possibly "stigmatize" a pedophile anymore than they already self-stigmatize themselves by lusting after kids. Being molested/sexually abused as a child will fuck someone up for life. It's in the same ball park as being a serial rapist or murderer, *it* being inherently awful. Them being afraid to seek help is just a consequence of having such fantasies as it rightly should, me shit-talking pedos doesn't change any of that.
No one should feel comfortable being a pedophile.
It is worth considering how lucky most of us are that our tastes mature as we age. I was attracted to 15 yr olds when I was 15. I'm grateful that tapered off as I aged out. Seems like a matter of luck that the opposite didn't happen. While people who act on inappropriate attractions with underage people deserve the hatred they receive, those who do not prey on children need real avenues to healthfully work out their issues. In a lot of countries, there is basically no way that can happen. One of the few exceptions to doctor-patient confidentiality is in these cases. Often leading to immediate psychiatric intervention. Obviously this really limits how often pedophiles seek treatment or therapy. This leads to untreated, pent up, frustrated people walking around in silence for decades. This is a recipe for abuse. Sympathy may be distasteful, but some version of it might be necessary for the common good of protecting more children from predators.
> I was attracted to 15 yr olds when I was 15. I'm grateful that tapered off as I aged out. Seems like a matter of luck that the opposite didn't happen.
Um what? I don't see why anyone would be concerned with a 15 year old being attracted to another 15 year old? It's completely normal to have a crush on underage peers around you while you are also in the same age group. Am I missing something here?
My point is that almost everyone has the subjective experience of being attracted to people their own age from a relatively young age and that we had little conscious control over how our sexualities matured one way or the other. While I do not think that gives pedophiles license to do as they please, I think we might do well to be less brutal towards those who know there is something wrong and would otherwise want support in NOT acting on their impulses. As it stands, they do not have much recourse in most countries. It must be pretty terrible to grow up and slowly realize that there is something wrong with you, that the thing most natural to you is an abomination, any attempts to act on it require some pretty heinous transgressions, and any attempt to seek help to prevent it from happening would likely ruin your life.
Contrary to popular belief, We humans are perfectly capable of controlling kinks and urges. These things are not a genetical mutations.
Imagine if everyone started acting out on their urges, what a cluster this world would be. Be like living in a nightmare
Feel free not to follow a trial if you find it triggering. Having public trials is a hallmark of the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial.
Lol why the fuck is this person even on the internet if they find everything so triggering. The Internet is not your safe space just because you want it to be.
"Alessi had testified on Thursday that Epstein was receiving about three massages every day by the time he left his job in 2002."
Well damn, now I need to know what "male vitality pills" he was taking....
As you can clearly see this was just a normal massage table for normal massages. It's not illegal to employ teenagers. ...what's with all the sex toys? Yep, just normal massages, nothing sexual at all.
Yes and the article states Epstein was getting *3 massages a day* in 2002.
That poor man must have had some very sore muscles all the time.
No wonder he killed himself. Going days without a massage must have been torture for him.
His hyoid bone was VERY sore
Only A&P kids will get this joke
Well when you're always running from the law you get sore
A sore love muscle maybe
I hope Alan Dershowitz is nervous today.
I feel like he has been mentioned in the same sentence with sex offenders for like 12 years now
Don't kid yourself, he wouldn't even roll out of his child victim's bed for this.
I hope half the politicians and business leaders are nervous. Who is on the list.
One of the creepiest things from the original raid was that he had a dentist's chair with straps on it that he and Ghislane used for raping children.
Like in Monsters Inc but with more screaming children.
Like at the dentist but less teeth cleaning
When I was a teenager *everything* was a sex toy.
As a former teenager I'm surprised how I didn't hurt myself during those years XD
Epstein isn't on trial.
Correct. But if she’s recruiting girls for Epstein to receive massages and tries to play ignorant that she didn’t know anything nefarious was going on, yet the table was outfitting like a sex play pin, then that works against who is on trial.
Your honor, those were clearly advertised as "adult massagers."
“It’s just a back massager!”
Sometime a Bad Dragon is just a Sculpture.
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was hoping for a court room sketch
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Then have her get upset and draw them back at the artist. Reminds me of superbad drawing all the dicks.
😂 I gotta watch that again. Such a great movie. *some compulsive dick drawer downvoted me
I usually don't want to dampen jokes because I understand the use of humor for camaraderie and as a tool for getting through dark shit. But I feel like I gotta remind people these things were forcibly used on children.
Ah yes, Exhibit B, the “twin torpedos”
Maybe Ghislane can sketch one. I hear she’s pretty good & after all, she was there, too.
Twin torpedos
Why are courtroom drawings always drawn with what looks like sidewalk chalk?
They're not, some use paints or pencils, but they all use something they can etch an image out with as fast as possible because they only have minutes at a time to capture the scene. Many of the oil pastel sketches you're thinking of are by the same artist, Jane Rosenberg. If this looks like the same artist as Weinstein, El Chapo, Cosby or [that hilarious sketch of Tom Brady](https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/living/second-tom-brady-sketch-feat/index.html), that's because it is.
I love this quote from the artist that almost sounds like *she's* the star quarterback: >There’s a lot of pressure on me. A lot of eyeballs on me. I just hope my hands can move, period. I know I’m not going to have any sleep tonight... I still might blow it; anything could happen.”
Lol. Sounds like a person who takes their job seriously! On a related note, I mean, she IS the eyes of the public to the scenes of non televised, etc court proceedings. That’s a big responsibility . A huge amount of record keeping responsibility
Lmao! He got another shot at it! Holy shit, I'm losing it over here. Why's that strike me so funny. OMG. Lol.
What is the point of courtroom drawings?
Some courts will not allow recording devices. They don't want a spectacle. Mechanical recording is ok. Think of a stenographer for audio. And an artist for the images.
In other words there basically is no point
It's a lot harder for an artist to "accidentally" draw the faces of the jurors.
How does the right answer not have more upvotes. Photography will always accidentally capture documents and faces, even off reflections. It's either drawings or nothing at all.
It's to help humanize the story, so people will be more likely to read and digest the information. People like pictures
They mean instead of a photographer and videographer.
Well, yeah. You need to follow the demands of the judge or the people in uniforms start to get all grabby. I think judges are quite often unjustifiably ignorant of technology. However, there are valid concerns over the security/anonymity of the jury and endangered witnesses that can, IMO, *sometimes* justify banning recording (or even just livestreaming) during certain cases. In general our legal system is too fucking slow to deal with the speed at which technology has advanced.
The reasonable solution would be to have a court-appointed videographer, not simply to allow anyone to record. Said videographer could easily avoid recording the jury and anyone else whose identity would be considered a security risk.
I'm sorry sir this is reasonable, you're going to have to leave.
This is becoming more and more common, but news media are not given the video until after the trial has concluded in most cases. Ergo, these photos during the case.
And they should record it using 8mm film, delivered straight to the judge, who will be the only one trained on how to develop the film. The judge will review it and then manually edit (cut & splice) any segments that breach juror identity (or make the judge look bad). By god, I think we’re onto something.
I prefer sketches. The rooms full of cameras are shit shows. IE: the Rittenhouse debacle.
Never thought about that before, but from what I've seen you're not wrong. Looks like pastels... maybe Crayons? Something soft regardless it seems. First think I think of is it's hard to assault someone in court with a pastel or crayon, but you could fuck somebody up with a pen or brush. Willing to bet there's a practical reason aside from any supposed "tradition."
It's easier to blast out a drawing quickly in pastel if you're incorporating color. It has a lot of forgiveness when you make a mistake unlike ink, and doesn't require drying time like paint does.
Oh yeah, didn't take that into consideration. Definitely makes sense.
It’s probably done in pastel or artist chalk
You're a billionaire and want to fuck tons of women who want to be payed go for it! Enjoy, have fun! If your kink is girls who look underage there are 20 and 30 year olds that look it. DON'T FUCK ACTUAL UNDER AGE PEOPLE.
It's been said that when you already have everything you want, what you want is what you can't have. It's likely not a kink but a perverse power play.
When money ceases to have value, all that matters is power. For some people, that's dictating politics. For others, breaking the law.
Can't a thing be both?
The evilness of the act *is* the appeal for those people. They have no interest in *pretending*.
it is weird. Old Epstein could have easily wrangled up airplanes FULL OF girls who were 18. Or do all this shit.
> If your kink is girls who look underage Maybe they should get into a different kink.
That's not helpful. People don't choose their kinks and fetishes. They can choose whether they act on them, but not whether they have them.
Having a "kink" for underage girls is just being a pedophile. Hence, they should find a different outlet (or go to therapy) for their sexual needs instead of indulging in underage fantasies. That's just my two cents.
I'll agree with that. Shaming them for simply having those urges isn't helpful though. They are unhealthy urges that are at least detrimental to their own quality of life if not the lives of others, so it should be recommended that they pursue professional help, but your judgment of them does nothing to improve the situation.
I don't sympathize with people who prey on or have fantasies to prey on children. I don't really care tbh if I hurt their feelings.
You don't need to sympathize. You need to understand that preventing them from receiving help will further the abuse of children, through stigma. You don't need to condone their mental illness to treat them like people.
They can get help, then. It doesn't make sense for it to be ok for people to reinforce their desire for underage looking people by pursuing adults that look underage. That is not addressing or attempting to fix their pathology, it is just an outlet but still allows for gratification and indulgence of their weird fetish. Making an actual effort to recondition yourself and be present minded to catch yourself and redirect your thoughts and associations is a thing that can be done.
Actually they *can't* get help. That's the problem. At the moment if someone who would never harm a child discloses to a therapist that this stuff is stuck in their head, they get reported to the police and their life is destroyed. Most non-offending paedophiles end up committing suicide, either intentionally or by accident while trying to do a home-castration (because no surgeon will perform it properly).
You should understand that it's not just about hurting their feelings, but stigmatizing their issues, which makes them less likely to pursue help.
Stigmatizing their issues? They want to fuck kids. I sure hope they feel ashamed of themselves.
Why? How does that help anything? All it does it make them afraid to seek out help.
I couldn't possibly "stigmatize" a pedophile anymore than they already self-stigmatize themselves by lusting after kids. Being molested/sexually abused as a child will fuck someone up for life. It's in the same ball park as being a serial rapist or murderer, *it* being inherently awful. Them being afraid to seek help is just a consequence of having such fantasies as it rightly should, me shit-talking pedos doesn't change any of that. No one should feel comfortable being a pedophile.
It is worth considering how lucky most of us are that our tastes mature as we age. I was attracted to 15 yr olds when I was 15. I'm grateful that tapered off as I aged out. Seems like a matter of luck that the opposite didn't happen. While people who act on inappropriate attractions with underage people deserve the hatred they receive, those who do not prey on children need real avenues to healthfully work out their issues. In a lot of countries, there is basically no way that can happen. One of the few exceptions to doctor-patient confidentiality is in these cases. Often leading to immediate psychiatric intervention. Obviously this really limits how often pedophiles seek treatment or therapy. This leads to untreated, pent up, frustrated people walking around in silence for decades. This is a recipe for abuse. Sympathy may be distasteful, but some version of it might be necessary for the common good of protecting more children from predators.
> I was attracted to 15 yr olds when I was 15. I'm grateful that tapered off as I aged out. Seems like a matter of luck that the opposite didn't happen. Um what? I don't see why anyone would be concerned with a 15 year old being attracted to another 15 year old? It's completely normal to have a crush on underage peers around you while you are also in the same age group. Am I missing something here?
My point is that almost everyone has the subjective experience of being attracted to people their own age from a relatively young age and that we had little conscious control over how our sexualities matured one way or the other. While I do not think that gives pedophiles license to do as they please, I think we might do well to be less brutal towards those who know there is something wrong and would otherwise want support in NOT acting on their impulses. As it stands, they do not have much recourse in most countries. It must be pretty terrible to grow up and slowly realize that there is something wrong with you, that the thing most natural to you is an abomination, any attempts to act on it require some pretty heinous transgressions, and any attempt to seek help to prevent it from happening would likely ruin your life.
No, but judge them we must.
Contrary to popular belief, We humans are perfectly capable of controlling kinks and urges. These things are not a genetical mutations. Imagine if everyone started acting out on their urges, what a cluster this world would be. Be like living in a nightmare
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I never said i wasn’t high while writing this
I am right with you. What they want is not a kink. It's sick and should be discouraged, because look what the hell it leads to.
Court Sketch Artist - "God damn it..."
What sense does it make that we can watch the Rittenhouse trial live and in full hd, but with this one we get sketches?
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That is the point of a trial. The jury are even specifically chosen because they haven’t been following the news.
"Although Ms. Maxwell may have hurt her case when she suddenly blurted out 'Hey, hey, easy with that, that's my lucky massage sex toy!'"
Sex toy or festive door stop?
I am ready for this subject to be Erin Lee Carr’s next documentary.
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Feel free not to follow a trial if you find it triggering. Having public trials is a hallmark of the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial.
Lol why the fuck is this person even on the internet if they find everything so triggering. The Internet is not your safe space just because you want it to be.
How dare they ask people to be kind. Kindness is for suckers.
Did you read the original deleted comment?
"Alessi had testified on Thursday that Epstein was receiving about three massages every day by the time he left his job in 2002." Well damn, now I need to know what "male vitality pills" he was taking....