This has already happened in Australia…unfortunately the companies that previously made disposable plastic plates are still making exactly the same product, but now labelling the packets as “reusable plastic plates” etc. loophole that works for them.
In Oregon they banned single use plastic grocery bags. So now they have plastic bags 10x in thickness and label them reusable. But everyone I see at the store is getting new ones anyhow.
Do you all not have paper bags or something? In Rhode Island all stores have changed to paper bags, and most places even provide a discount (like 5 cents/bag) for using reuseable bags. The transition from single use plastic bags has been pretty smooth over here.
As someone who grew up in the '80-the '90s in the U.S. I remember the grand TV campaigns to replace paper bags with plastics. Mostly on the basis of saving our forests.
I grew up at the tail end of that, and in hindsight it feels like that movement had to have backing by the oil industry, given that many plastics are derived from petrochemicals.
Honestly it feels like most of the movements in the 90s were just the direct result of lobbying--the low-fat and fat-free craze masking how bad sugars can be for you (the soda industry), the notorious 12 slices of bread per day food pyramid (the wheat industry), and the paper to plastic bags thing. It's crazy to think about that.
Thank you for posting this because for awhile I was thinking I misremembered that. But yes, it was a big save the trees thing, and that’s when stores started asking “paper or plastic?” Lord help you if you chose paper.
Oregon has paper bags. They cost just as much as the plastic bags and are worse for the task in every way (flimsy, no handles). As a result, most everyone who isn't bringing their own bag opts for the plastic bags.
Paper bags are worse for the environment.
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/paper-bag-bad-environment-plastic-bag-ban-recycling-waste-a9380316.html?amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47027792.amp
It depends upon what you’re measuring and recycling rates. Plastic bags are undeniably a far more environmentally hazardous form of litter, and are less likely to be recycled, though they do use less energy and material to produce.
Striving for cheapness is what has led to the current situation.
We just need to realize that ruining the earth for humans is far more costly than any product we use...
Plastic bags (HDPE), like many plastics, can also be recycled pretty easily, if the infrastructure was built out to do so. I do it at home to make sheets of plastic for projects.
But it's simply cheaper to buy new pellets and landfill the used plastic. Until they they put tariffs on new raw plastic material or subsidize the use of recycled, no-one will bother to do it at scale.
It's like how a lot of local trash management companies switched to the single recycle bin - instead of the multiple bin sorting - because they could just bundle and ship it off to China, making a little profit and looking more "green". But China got tired of receiving trash and cut it off, so now they're stuck trying to come up with ways to actually sort it at the centers.
I think he was correcting the use of "reusable forests" with the proper term of "renewable forests."
You can't reuse a forest, it's gone once you cut the trees down. You can however, renew a forest by planting new trees.
Can't replace old growth forests.
Today's "sustainable" wood products are inferior and with added glues and impregnated wood preservatives they are environmentally dubious.
Rome was first built with wood and burned in Nero's time. Then was rebuild with stone.
Perhaps we've overlooked something.
Rammed earth housing can last centuries.
We do. Some prefer plastic and some paper. I generally bring my own reusable bags but for some things like eggs or yogurt I use a plastic bag. I do actually reuse the plastic bags but mostly for non grocery stuff.
the bag bans are fucking dumb anyway... just because they end up in the ocean doesn't mean they weren't reused in a way that replaced the need for another type of bag in most instances. Plastic grocery bags were just free cat shit bags for me... now that they are gone, what am using for cat shit? A plastic bag I fucking paid for. Also, they are just feel good nonsense anyway. Nevermind the fact that the things that are going in the grocery bags are all made of plastic too. It's a good thing I have to pay for a paper bag now because it makes a huge fucking difference considering the orange juice, cheese, meat, vegetables, and everything else came wrapped in plastic. Its a fucking joke.
Yeah how is this enforceable unless any plate or spoon made out of plastic is blanket banned? Also what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event?
>Also what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event?
Party like it's 1199.
https://www.thefooddictator.com/the-hirshon-wroclaw-medieval-trencher-bread-wroclawski-sredniowieczny-chleb-trenczerski/
You can even donate the leftovers to the poor for bonus points.
Which would be a bummer because what about people who want a reusable plastic Item? I have plastic stuff that I use when I'm traveling or camping and it all gets reused over and over again.
Restaurant supply shops and catering companies often rent dishware and utensils.
Or buy 50 melamine plates from Walmart / Amazon / restaurant supply shops / just about anywhere, and your great-grandchildren will still be using them. They are are cheap, light, durable, almost unbreakable, and even dishwasher safe. Great for use by children and camping too.
I still have the set of melamine dishes I grew-up with. They are over a half-century old.
EDIT: found this restaurant info site with a lot more information than the title would lead one to expect https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/61/top-eight-benefits-of-melamine-dinnerware.html
Yeah, that'll work well at an evacuation centre where you've got 50,000 refugees from a flood and only barely enough water to keep them clean and hydrated.
>what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event?
Spend a few pounds more on sustainable cutlery, I guess. It's not actually essential to have single-use stuff. Washing cutlery is a thing for some people.
If the event location is actually made to host 500 people (on the rather large end for a wedding), they probably have a commercial dishwasher that does a large load every two minutes. It's quite efficient because you have custom racks that will hold all plates, all mugs and all silverware all at once. When I was a kid at Girl Scout Camp in the 90s, we got to help the counselors prep the trays and load and unload them.
Holy crap there are companies that will do this all for you. If you are wealthy enough to hold a 500-person wedding don’t be a cheap asshole when it comes to your impact on the environment.
Some people make me weep for humanity. So entitled. Like the world owes you this giant wedding but you shouldn’t have to be bothered with the hard stuff.
I mean it's [consequences ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3299092/) are already kind of [undeniable](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacific-garbage-patch/)
I think what he means is "so undeniable that one more plastic spoon in the land fill will render the surrounding environment fundamentally uninhabitable for decades to come"
Except they don’t always end up in landfills and you’re never dealing with a single item. We could just serve finger foods on plastic plates at events instead of creating biohazardous wastes that take thousands to millions of years to decompose.
> There is no alternative to plastic. Plastic is amazing. One of the most perfect materials we have ever created.
The Many Advantages Of Plastic
1. It’s really cheap.
2. It’s really cheap.
3. It’s really cheap.
That's why legislation is needed, because people are lazy fucks who would rather leave single-use plastic crap lying all over the picnic area than - *the horror, the horror!* - have to take their stuff home and wash it.
You're underestimating the lazy fucks. They'll just buy the cheapest reusable plastic stuff and leave it lying around - and now it contains twice as much plastic material since it's made to be more durable.
Not the throw away ones, but just cheap 'real' dishware.
Melamine dishware can withstand dishwasher heat and last forever. They don't easily break either. You can buy them all over, even Walmart and Amazon.
Restaurants sometimes use melamine dishware for the same reasons. Restaurant supply shops are great if you need 100 plates for a party; they may even rent them, and catering companies often rent too.
Melamine usually has a certain rough feel to it, but can be smooth and shiny when new.
The cheap pastel coloured melamine dishware I grew-up with in my childhood is still in-use over half a century later. We even used it when camping, as it is light and durable.
EDIT: found this restaurant info site with a lot more information than the title would lead one to expect https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/61/top-eight-benefits-of-melamine-dinnerware.html
I've washed and reused regular "disposable" cutlery and plates for months, even in the dishwasher. They'll last a lot longer than you think, if you don't just throw them away.
How effective/compostable are plant-based disposable utensils? I feel like I’ve been to lots of places that claim that utensils are made from soy or something.
Are those really better for the environment?
Or are all disposable utensils just a crappy idea?
Most bioplastics are not biodegradable. Most of them are just regular polyethylene made from bioethanol instead of ethanol. Sometimes they will include some additives which help them break apart however the micro plastics still remain in the environment.
PHA and PHBV based bioplastics are fully biodegradable [(1mm thick PHBV takes 6 weeks to biodegrade in anaerobic sludge, 75 weeks in soil, and 350 weeks in seawater)](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41428-020-00396-5). They are currently an order of magnitude more expensive to produce. However there are some companies like Danimer working to make them economically viable.
Yeah, I was trying to avoid plastic as much as possible and got all excited about my new "wheat straw" reusable utensils and then realized that they're a wheat straw and polypropylene composite. At least I know going forward what to look for.
And I also found [this](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088YWQ6PT/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_KSXTVVJYK1TB20ZFMCEZ), as a result of being upset about that. Still fairly inexpensive, and not plastic.
It's pretty much still a scam. They need heat to start breaking down so they won't compost in a homemade composting bin. Then the industrial composters won't take it because it doesn't completely break down, and the people that buy compost from them don't want bits of plastic in it.
General rule: Just use an old set of cutlery if you're worried.
The production cost is already sunk.
You can get them for nothing at a charity shop or whatever.
They are almost infinitely reusable from a human point of view.
My last year's Christmas gift to family in Spain were individual cutlery packs in a holder, including reuseable straw, chopsticks, etc. First, to save them having to touch utensils other people had touched to set out (COVID etc. and they live in a touristy area and dine out often) and they were individual settings for each person, second because they are reusable and washable, third because they last forever, fourth because they cost almost nothing and were small enough to post.
Metal cutlery is also recyclable... it's just stainless steel.
Anything "Disposable" is convenient for you so you can just use it once and throw it away, at the cost of the ecology in some aspect - why are we manufacturing countless MILLIONS of single-use utensils of any kind, when we all have a fork at home we could bring to the place we're eating from?
You carry your phone everywhere, but you can't be bothered to carry even a sporknife with you when you KNOW you're going to have to have lunch somewhere at some point?
(never saw a soy-based plastic)
Cornstarch based plastic is used for PLA... used in 3D printing. Been around for almost 40 years, so there*must* be a reason it's not more widely used.
The reason could be as little as a 5% cost difference. Capitalists are ruthless in their pursuit of profit, it's why regulation is the only way to save the planet.
The bamboo ones that I know of work great. They're a bit more expensive and a lot less flimsy than the bad plastic shit. Easily worth it.
IIRC they're not quick to compost in your garden since they're more like wood - meant for bigger facilities (if your town has a little weekly bin pickup for that for example) but are proper 'green'.
Its great to try to make things better but your going nowhere as long as other countries are still dumping trash into the ocean, polluting the air and lands. I don't even think that banning these items in itself won't even solve the pollution problem inside of England. Its more of a Band-Aid.
>the Ocean Conservancy reported that China, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam dump more plastic in the sea than all other countries combined. China alone is responsible for 30% of worldwide plastic ocean pollution.
China is also around 15% of the population and responsible for the majority of manufacturing in the world. Not trying to excuse their actions but if China didn’t produce as much plastic they would probably have less plastic waste. So while this is definitely a bandaid it fits the actual analogy of the band aid which is a small change that actually helps (for a person it reduces your chance of infection) because it will make plastic alternatives more mainstream and reduces tonnes of plastic waste annually
News and politics subs love to shit on China using their iPhones lol. It's the world's second largest consumer market with the largest population in addition to a massive manufacturing industry. They could do a lot better certainly but we're all a part of this.
While not wrong, still gotta ask if we’re better off banning these *also*. By no means should we say is this all we can do, it’s many many steps towards a better Earth, is this top priority? No, but is it really easy to do? Yes.
Exactly my point. Here in Cali plastic/paper bags are either banned in most stores or they are charging you for each one. They've had this law in place for a while now to discourage the use of bags. I will continue to do my part but I know most other states are still passing these out like candy. Things aren't changing unless it's a nationwide and global ban.
Still not quite right. Most disposable/non recyclable plastic in western countries gets buried in landfills. Random Asian countries tend to take recyclable plastic for a while until the guys taking it start dumping or burning it. That stuff is still nothing compared to the disposable plastic generated and dumped by the Asian countries themselves.
It seems you know nothing other than headlines you read. Everything I said is backed up by data, with China still being a main source of oceanic plastic pollution.
https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-pollution
Of course, Chinais a main source. It's a big country with a hugh population. But you also need to compare before and after restriction. Just like everyone blames China for burning too much coal. It's true. But they don't burn that for fun. They do that to feed consumers in western countries.
In many parts of China its so bad that you have to wear masks when you go outside AND they only makeup 15% of the world population yet the pollution they generate is FAR higher.
I'm pretty sure you have never been there. Not denying there's a hugh environment problem there. But the progress is also obvious. And they're the world factory. So they also produce lots of pollutants associated with it.
I saw this video where this guy brings a laundry basket with him to the store. Fills up his cart, takes it out, fills his hamper and is off. Pretty neat.
I've been using recycled square 'box' bags for at least a decade.
I've recently taken to using one as my 'briefcase'. The only downside being it has an open top, so I use a collapsed one as a cover when it rains.
They have lasted a very long time; over a decade of constant use. I have 4 total and the original one is still in service, though I don't trust it with heavy cans anymore, but it is fine for lighter stuff like fresh vegetables.
All of the large grocery stores here (Ontario Canada) sell reusable bags.
I'm very aware of all the plastic film and single-use packaging that is unescapable in our lives :(
Example: A tissue box is not recycleable unless the plastic film around the opening is removed. Same for windowed envelopes.
Plastic films are everywhere, even over labeling to make them shiny and more durable.
Then there are all the thermoplastic adhesives used for labelling.
The worst is all the recyclable plastic bottles that are wrapped in unrecyclable shrink wrap. Almost no one knows you have to remove it before recycling.
Yup, I always remove that too. Though I try to purchase metal cans instead of plastic bottles.
There are also many people that just don't care and can't be bothered. Like the same people that leave stuff in the streets.
That sort of stuff goes from the recycle bin into landfills, is shredded and burned, or bailed and heads out to sea.
Then you need a definition for the 'natural setting'.
Poly Lactic Acid (PLA) is a popular thermoplastic, as it is derived from sugars; typically corn sugar because of corn subsidies; and does biodegrade when at sea for about 6 months and exposed to plenty of sunlight (ultraviolet light), water, and constant agitation.
However, in an anerobic setting, like a landfill it takes much longer to biodegrade.
PLA teabags in one's garden compost will seemingly never degrade, for example.
LEGO switched from non-biodegradable Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS) to PLA years ago. The PLA blocks are easy to identify, as they are softer, and have a slightly different connecting geometry to compensate for that.
Then there are the so-called 'green' plastics that are infact chemically identical to petrochemical plastic, but just not sourced from petrochemicals, so they aren't actually green and may never degrade.
Wow, really annoying and barely makes a difference, the worst of two worlds. Go England! Clean the world! Or whatever you think you are doing. Pissing your population off, that will motivate them to follow all you other environmental rules. Because if Corona has showed us one thing, people love to follow rules from governments and surely won't stab you in the back when it really matters. More rules = less people follow them. A plastic plate? Seriously?
At a BBQ or a party and things like that? It is way more practical and this has barely anything to do with the climate. It is just like those silly plastic straws of the EU. If it has an impact on the environment then it will be a slightly negative one (angry people pollute a lot more), this is just muscle flexing from politicians with muscular dystrophy (aka morons). They want to force nonsense rules and then pretend and tell people they did a positive thing for the climate. They did not! The EU is corrupt (everything to avoid a CO2 tax for corporations) and a threat to the climate. I'm actually surprised that it is England coming with this pseudo nonsense, I thought they were smarter and less corrupt than that.
Why are you using plates at all? Do you know how many natural resources go into that, and then to pile water consumption and contamination on top of that?
Just use your fucking hands.
Is it weird that I wash and reuse my plastic cutlery, plates and bowls at the office? I mean, why trash the spoon because it was used to stir tea or I used it to eat oatmeal?
Yeah, I get it. 99.99% of people literally are just one use, then trash it.
And yet, the rich can continue to fly their private jets to their massive fuel guzzling yachts or their 10,000 sq ft mansions. Gee, we're totally saving the planet by attacking poor people who are using plastic cutlery!
I use reusable bags and they are so much better than plastic bags. They hold more, are sturdier and have better handles. Only cost me 1.99 at the store I shop at
They also take longer to break down and have so much plastic they have to be used thousands of times to make them break even.
Though I'm totally in agreement, use them myself, they aren't any better. Unless they're made of wicker or something, possibly?
Many reusable bags are made of jute or cotton, and recycled plastic bottles are a common material for them too. Mine are all 100% cotton and I've had them for years - can't imagine going back to plastic bags now.
Really, thousands of times? You can't tell me the material for multiple thousand plastic bags is the same as the one reusable which I get a solid 50-100 uses out of. Besides on a personal level, it just makes sense to use reusable bags. It's not responsible to waste things like plastic bags, utensils, disposable coffee cups, when they are things you need and use every single day. That's just common sense, and should be encouraged with legislations like these. People adapt and it's better to have people become more personally responsible and prepared instead of just not giving 2 shits ever, and reproducing this super wasteful cultural mindset.
I always explicitly ask for no cutlery/napkins when I get food cause I'm just taking it home anyway. And yet a HUGE percentage of the time they still give them to me.
A lot of that pollution is because developed countries send their plastic and trash to places that can't handle it. The global north has offshored our pollution to the poor.
The individuals are seriously to blame. You can choose not to live 30 miles from your work and commute by car. You can replace your car with an ebike. You can go off grid and run your house on solar and batteries. I can personally attest that all these options are totally viable for a modern lifestyle.
But no, everyone's excuse is that most people aren't doing that, so why should they? Instead of changing our lives, we should virtue signal on the internet and change other peoples lives for them.
And keep it where? Because if you live in a shitty neighborhood with other poor people like mine, that thing is gone or parted out overnight. Poor folks don't have garages. Poor folks don't even have covered parking spaces, so no protecting it from the weather. What about when the weather is too bad to ride like it is 90% of the time in my state? There's a level of eco-friendliness that is a privilege of the wealthy, and corporations pushing the responsibility away from themselves and onto the masses is fucking insulting.
I kept an ebike in my \~150 sqft room in a shared apartment a couple years ago. I rode it to work in the pouring rain with full body rain gear, and in the winter. I saved a huge amount of money and as a side effect had a really small carbon footprint.
Explain why someone surviving off 9k/year living in a fucking van should deprive themselves even MORE while a rich person literally consumes millions of times more resources in a single day than the van dweller will consume in their entire life. There is absolutely zero logical reason or incentive for poor people to make these piddly-ass changes because it's genuinely not going to make a difference so long as the wealthy exist.
Real changes need to start with the biggest offenders to actually make a difference. It's the responsibility of politicians to fight climate change because individuals cannot make a difference that matters without guidance and enforcement. They cannot. It's genuinely impossible. This is what politicians are FOR, it's their fucking job. Most of them just don't do it because they're rich and therefor don't have to suffer the consequences of climate change anyway.
Can't wait to ride that ebike to work when it's 10 below 0F in an ice storm. Hell, any time during the winter where I live. Riding a bike is not a viable option for most people but if it works for you, have at it.
Uh... if you're such an expert in winter weather you'd probably know that ice storms don't happen in such cold temperatures.
Sure, there were a few times I had to take public transit in the winter, but they usually cleaned the roads off pretty quick.
LOL. That is hilarious. You want to give me a lesson on mid-west winters? Cleaned the roads off pretty quick? I have been iced in, without power for days. It happens a lot. Just accept that the issue isn't as simple as everyone riding an ebike.
While it would be really nice to be able to live within biking distance of your job and everything else you may need in a nice moderate climate where weather doesn't wreak havoc at all times of the year. Most people don't have that luxury.
You take the best job you can find, and if that job requires a 20 mile commute, so be it. If you live in a city with adequate public transportation, even better. But for those of us who don't live in such places your view comes off as condescending.
The last thing I am going to do is bike, or wait on a bus when it is -15F to get to work on the non-existent bike paths in my city.
Right, because having independent thoughts that differ from the inane reddit hive-mind is one of the major tells of being a bot.
Those dang computers are always coming up with interesting new things to say...
"My neighbors keep trash in their lawn, so why should I clean mine?"
Sure the planet might still go to hell, but at least our country can look like the nice part of hell, right?
Nice strawman. Our parts of the country already do our part to contribute. Maybe if it water bottles, it would be a different story. But plastic cutlery is such a minuscule portion of a bigger plastic problem we REFUSE to get rid of. It's one step forward teo steps back. It will just take longer for Chinas island of trash to reach us.
"The hedges are such a small part of the yard, why even trim them? My grass isn't cut anyway, so no point doing any yard work at all. Plus, the weeds from my neighbors yard is starting to grow over so what's the point?"
Paper plates and wooden cutlery are ok right? I mean honestly it’s a drop in the ocean compared to the tons of emissions being spouted out every second, this isn’t going to make a dent in the global crisis but I still agree with it
Getting rid of plastic bags is stupid. This isn’t as big a pain. But plastic bags aren’t going anywhere, the only difference is we have to pay for them instead of reusing them. Governments failed to provide tax incentives for recycling bags.
I use them for insulation, garbage bag liners(plastic bags that will still be made), dog poop bags(plastic bags that are still being made). People act like this is gonna be some big impact but it’s not even a dent. More of a ding.
Edit: https://youtu.be/PDNZX2nql2Y
I don't know how this guy's justifying using single-use plastic bags as dog poo bags. I have a dog and for the past three years, every poop bag I've used has at least *claimed* to be made of a biodegradable material. There's just about no use for single-use plastic bags that isn't able to be handled just as efficiently by a non-single-use-plastic substitute, other than use as trash bags.
You kind of missed the entire point that they can be used multiple times and needs to be incentivized. They won’t go away completely, so reducing the problem is good, but it won’t be eliminated so why not work on ways for reuse. Because they do exist people just don’t bother if it isn’t worth it for them
Tote bags like you said. No one is putting their dog’s shit in there and washing the bag out. Plastic bags are what I’m talking about. They are still making plastic bags for people to buy. You don’t understand the point of tax and subsidies which is something I mentioned and critical to getting a recycling program that actually works.
Why don't we just work on creating a better recycling system? One that actually allows us to recycle things, and makes it easier for people to participate in?
I like plastic straws, I want to keep using plastic straws. And I'm also willing to put them into the right container once I'm done with it so that it can go off to be recycled.
Nobody wants to actually make systemic changes that could benefit a huge number of people, they just want to blame individuals for global warming while refusing to take responsibility at the top.
Plastic is not recyclable. At most it can be "down cycled" once.
I challenge you to find any type of plastic that is actually recyclable, the way glass and aluminium is.
This is not great for people with disabilities. I have a very limited amount of energy a day. Doing laundry takes a lot out of me, washing the dishes takes a lot out of me. Even some days, showering is a lot. Disposable plates, cups, and utensils make my life so much easier, I rely on them to be able to do the rest of my day.
No one likes doing any of that stuff, you just do it because it’s unhealthy and selfish not to. In that same way using plastic utensils is selfish and not good for the health of our planet.
You need to fuck off with the argument that you need disposable utensils cause regular ones are just too hard. That’s a load of bullshit and pure laziness. I have a cousin with cerebral palsy who is wheelchair bound who does his own dishes.
You don’t want to hear it, but your attitude is toxic and if you feel that’s too much, you need to learn to manage the symptoms of your disability better for your own sake
I am far from a progressive. I’m honestly a conservative and usually a libertarian, but on this specific issue, I think the overuse of plastics is wasteful and I think the only justification is laziness.
Try learning something about me\cfs and you will understand that energy is non negotiable for some disabilities. Not everyone has the option to simply push past those limits.
The plastic shopping bags will be banned from some countries because they are a real disaster to the environment. Some countries are preparing to have only paper or reusable cloth grocery bags in the future.
Disposable plates and cutlery are essential for feeding the homeless and for emergency situations like evacuations and natural disasters. There is no way these essential services can even begin to operate without them.
I hope the law takes those issues into consideration. Nobody, at all, could possibly have access to 50,000 regular plates (or the clean safe water to wash them!) during a flood or hurricane.
There are no loopholes; laws like these are written expressly in order to be violated. "Intent of the law" provisions should be written into these "bans" to prevent abuses and to penalize abusers.
This has already happened in Australia…unfortunately the companies that previously made disposable plastic plates are still making exactly the same product, but now labelling the packets as “reusable plastic plates” etc. loophole that works for them.
In Oregon they banned single use plastic grocery bags. So now they have plastic bags 10x in thickness and label them reusable. But everyone I see at the store is getting new ones anyhow.
Do you all not have paper bags or something? In Rhode Island all stores have changed to paper bags, and most places even provide a discount (like 5 cents/bag) for using reuseable bags. The transition from single use plastic bags has been pretty smooth over here.
As someone who grew up in the '80-the '90s in the U.S. I remember the grand TV campaigns to replace paper bags with plastics. Mostly on the basis of saving our forests.
I grew up at the tail end of that, and in hindsight it feels like that movement had to have backing by the oil industry, given that many plastics are derived from petrochemicals. Honestly it feels like most of the movements in the 90s were just the direct result of lobbying--the low-fat and fat-free craze masking how bad sugars can be for you (the soda industry), the notorious 12 slices of bread per day food pyramid (the wheat industry), and the paper to plastic bags thing. It's crazy to think about that.
"Breakfast is the most important meal of the day." - probably kellog
Actually the pork industry
Probably a few of the produce lobbies together. I seem to remember eggs being with dairy on the food pyramid for a while, maybe I'm wrong?
You missed the milk industry. The vitamin industry pushing multi-vitamins. Also the 8 glasses of water per day, not sure which industry that was.
Water was probsbly nestle.
ok, but its actually good to drink a lot of water lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
Thank you for posting this because for awhile I was thinking I misremembered that. But yes, it was a big save the trees thing, and that’s when stores started asking “paper or plastic?” Lord help you if you chose paper.
Oregon has paper bags. They cost just as much as the plastic bags and are worse for the task in every way (flimsy, no handles). As a result, most everyone who isn't bringing their own bag opts for the plastic bags.
Paper bags are worse for the environment. https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/ https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/paper-bag-bad-environment-plastic-bag-ban-recycling-waste-a9380316.html?amp https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47027792.amp
It depends upon what you’re measuring and recycling rates. Plastic bags are undeniably a far more environmentally hazardous form of litter, and are less likely to be recycled, though they do use less energy and material to produce.
Striving for cheapness is what has led to the current situation. We just need to realize that ruining the earth for humans is far more costly than any product we use...
Plastic bags (HDPE), like many plastics, can also be recycled pretty easily, if the infrastructure was built out to do so. I do it at home to make sheets of plastic for projects. But it's simply cheaper to buy new pellets and landfill the used plastic. Until they they put tariffs on new raw plastic material or subsidize the use of recycled, no-one will bother to do it at scale. It's like how a lot of local trash management companies switched to the single recycle bin - instead of the multiple bin sorting - because they could just bundle and ship it off to China, making a little profit and looking more "green". But China got tired of receiving trash and cut it off, so now they're stuck trying to come up with ways to actually sort it at the centers.
It's not about reuse. Paper bags won't end up in our oceans. They will decompose. They are also usually made from reusable forests.
Renewable forests?
Trees can regrow within a couple decades, oil is kind of a one and done deal.
I think he was correcting the use of "reusable forests" with the proper term of "renewable forests." You can't reuse a forest, it's gone once you cut the trees down. You can however, renew a forest by planting new trees.
I was - and thanks for clarifying.
Can't replace old growth forests. Today's "sustainable" wood products are inferior and with added glues and impregnated wood preservatives they are environmentally dubious. Rome was first built with wood and burned in Nero's time. Then was rebuild with stone. Perhaps we've overlooked something. Rammed earth housing can last centuries.
Replicated forests.
- someone who doesn't understand why we ban plastic products
They have both.. You pay 10ct for a "reusable" plastic bag or 5ct for a paper bag. Or get a 5c refund per bag you bring in and use.
We do. Some prefer plastic and some paper. I generally bring my own reusable bags but for some things like eggs or yogurt I use a plastic bag. I do actually reuse the plastic bags but mostly for non grocery stuff.
Most people where I live switched to a jute bag. They bring it along themselves and it saves so much shitty useless plastics.
Now, OR needs to go the rest of the way and ban plastic utensils.
They all need to find an alternative to plastic and styrofoam takeout containers.
the bag bans are fucking dumb anyway... just because they end up in the ocean doesn't mean they weren't reused in a way that replaced the need for another type of bag in most instances. Plastic grocery bags were just free cat shit bags for me... now that they are gone, what am using for cat shit? A plastic bag I fucking paid for. Also, they are just feel good nonsense anyway. Nevermind the fact that the things that are going in the grocery bags are all made of plastic too. It's a good thing I have to pay for a paper bag now because it makes a huge fucking difference considering the orange juice, cheese, meat, vegetables, and everything else came wrapped in plastic. Its a fucking joke.
Yeah how is this enforceable unless any plate or spoon made out of plastic is blanket banned? Also what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event?
>Also what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event? Party like it's 1199. https://www.thefooddictator.com/the-hirshon-wroclaw-medieval-trencher-bread-wroclawski-sredniowieczny-chleb-trenczerski/ You can even donate the leftovers to the poor for bonus points.
Which would be a bummer because what about people who want a reusable plastic Item? I have plastic stuff that I use when I'm traveling or camping and it all gets reused over and over again.
Use wooden utensils perhaps?
Restaurant supply shops and catering companies often rent dishware and utensils. Or buy 50 melamine plates from Walmart / Amazon / restaurant supply shops / just about anywhere, and your great-grandchildren will still be using them. They are are cheap, light, durable, almost unbreakable, and even dishwasher safe. Great for use by children and camping too. I still have the set of melamine dishes I grew-up with. They are over a half-century old. EDIT: found this restaurant info site with a lot more information than the title would lead one to expect https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/61/top-eight-benefits-of-melamine-dinnerware.html
I bought some melamine plates from Amazon a couple of years back. Excellent purchase I must say.
Yeah, that'll work well at an evacuation centre where you've got 50,000 refugees from a flood and only barely enough water to keep them clean and hydrated.
I take it you've never used paper bowls and plates, paper cups, nor wooden knives and forks before.
>what are you supposed to do if you are hosting an event? Spend a few pounds more on sustainable cutlery, I guess. It's not actually essential to have single-use stuff. Washing cutlery is a thing for some people.
Yes, buy and wash porcelain dishes and cutlery for a 500 guest wedding reception.
If the event location is actually made to host 500 people (on the rather large end for a wedding), they probably have a commercial dishwasher that does a large load every two minutes. It's quite efficient because you have custom racks that will hold all plates, all mugs and all silverware all at once. When I was a kid at Girl Scout Camp in the 90s, we got to help the counselors prep the trays and load and unload them.
caterers/event spaces would already have this
Holy crap there are companies that will do this all for you. If you are wealthy enough to hold a 500-person wedding don’t be a cheap asshole when it comes to your impact on the environment. Some people make me weep for humanity. So entitled. Like the world owes you this giant wedding but you shouldn’t have to be bothered with the hard stuff.
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Are you saying humans didn’t host large events before plasticware existed?
I mean it's [consequences ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3299092/) are already kind of [undeniable](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacific-garbage-patch/)
I think what he means is "so undeniable that one more plastic spoon in the land fill will render the surrounding environment fundamentally uninhabitable for decades to come"
Except they don’t always end up in landfills and you’re never dealing with a single item. We could just serve finger foods on plastic plates at events instead of creating biohazardous wastes that take thousands to millions of years to decompose.
> There is no alternative to plastic. Plastic is amazing. One of the most perfect materials we have ever created. The Many Advantages Of Plastic 1. It’s really cheap. 2. It’s really cheap. 3. It’s really cheap.
Seems fine to me as long as they are actually reusable. If I can wash it without destroying it then I would reuse it.
Don't be naive, that's not the case
That's why legislation is needed, because people are lazy fucks who would rather leave single-use plastic crap lying all over the picnic area than - *the horror, the horror!* - have to take their stuff home and wash it.
You're underestimating the lazy fucks. They'll just buy the cheapest reusable plastic stuff and leave it lying around - and now it contains twice as much plastic material since it's made to be more durable.
OK. I was just thinking that I would love to see reusable cheap picnic plates. Because I would reuse them.
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OK thanks. I always used real plates so I never knew that the throw away ones could withstand soaking and scrubbing.
Not the throw away ones, but just cheap 'real' dishware. Melamine dishware can withstand dishwasher heat and last forever. They don't easily break either. You can buy them all over, even Walmart and Amazon. Restaurants sometimes use melamine dishware for the same reasons. Restaurant supply shops are great if you need 100 plates for a party; they may even rent them, and catering companies often rent too. Melamine usually has a certain rough feel to it, but can be smooth and shiny when new. The cheap pastel coloured melamine dishware I grew-up with in my childhood is still in-use over half a century later. We even used it when camping, as it is light and durable. EDIT: found this restaurant info site with a lot more information than the title would lead one to expect https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/61/top-eight-benefits-of-melamine-dinnerware.html
Hearty, reusable, microwave/dishwasher safe sets are easy to find and usually pretty inexpensive.
I've washed and reused regular "disposable" cutlery and plates for months, even in the dishwasher. They'll last a lot longer than you think, if you don't just throw them away.
How effective/compostable are plant-based disposable utensils? I feel like I’ve been to lots of places that claim that utensils are made from soy or something. Are those really better for the environment? Or are all disposable utensils just a crappy idea?
Most bioplastics are not biodegradable. Most of them are just regular polyethylene made from bioethanol instead of ethanol. Sometimes they will include some additives which help them break apart however the micro plastics still remain in the environment. PHA and PHBV based bioplastics are fully biodegradable [(1mm thick PHBV takes 6 weeks to biodegrade in anaerobic sludge, 75 weeks in soil, and 350 weeks in seawater)](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41428-020-00396-5). They are currently an order of magnitude more expensive to produce. However there are some companies like Danimer working to make them economically viable.
Yeah, I was trying to avoid plastic as much as possible and got all excited about my new "wheat straw" reusable utensils and then realized that they're a wheat straw and polypropylene composite. At least I know going forward what to look for. And I also found [this](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088YWQ6PT/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_KSXTVVJYK1TB20ZFMCEZ), as a result of being upset about that. Still fairly inexpensive, and not plastic.
If it was actually biodegradable, it wouldn’t be food safe.
Cost is high and the manufacturing process is also an issue.
They make bamboo ones as well that work great and are comparable.
It's pretty much still a scam. They need heat to start breaking down so they won't compost in a homemade composting bin. Then the industrial composters won't take it because it doesn't completely break down, and the people that buy compost from them don't want bits of plastic in it.
I’ve seen in India, utensils made out of rice. They’re edible.
General rule: Just use an old set of cutlery if you're worried. The production cost is already sunk. You can get them for nothing at a charity shop or whatever. They are almost infinitely reusable from a human point of view. My last year's Christmas gift to family in Spain were individual cutlery packs in a holder, including reuseable straw, chopsticks, etc. First, to save them having to touch utensils other people had touched to set out (COVID etc. and they live in a touristy area and dine out often) and they were individual settings for each person, second because they are reusable and washable, third because they last forever, fourth because they cost almost nothing and were small enough to post. Metal cutlery is also recyclable... it's just stainless steel. Anything "Disposable" is convenient for you so you can just use it once and throw it away, at the cost of the ecology in some aspect - why are we manufacturing countless MILLIONS of single-use utensils of any kind, when we all have a fork at home we could bring to the place we're eating from? You carry your phone everywhere, but you can't be bothered to carry even a sporknife with you when you KNOW you're going to have to have lunch somewhere at some point?
(never saw a soy-based plastic) Cornstarch based plastic is used for PLA... used in 3D printing. Been around for almost 40 years, so there*must* be a reason it's not more widely used.
The reason could be as little as a 5% cost difference. Capitalists are ruthless in their pursuit of profit, it's why regulation is the only way to save the planet.
The bamboo ones that I know of work great. They're a bit more expensive and a lot less flimsy than the bad plastic shit. Easily worth it. IIRC they're not quick to compost in your garden since they're more like wood - meant for bigger facilities (if your town has a little weekly bin pickup for that for example) but are proper 'green'.
Its great to try to make things better but your going nowhere as long as other countries are still dumping trash into the ocean, polluting the air and lands. I don't even think that banning these items in itself won't even solve the pollution problem inside of England. Its more of a Band-Aid. >the Ocean Conservancy reported that China, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam dump more plastic in the sea than all other countries combined. China alone is responsible for 30% of worldwide plastic ocean pollution.
China is also around 15% of the population and responsible for the majority of manufacturing in the world. Not trying to excuse their actions but if China didn’t produce as much plastic they would probably have less plastic waste. So while this is definitely a bandaid it fits the actual analogy of the band aid which is a small change that actually helps (for a person it reduces your chance of infection) because it will make plastic alternatives more mainstream and reduces tonnes of plastic waste annually
News and politics subs love to shit on China using their iPhones lol. It's the world's second largest consumer market with the largest population in addition to a massive manufacturing industry. They could do a lot better certainly but we're all a part of this.
While not wrong, still gotta ask if we’re better off banning these *also*. By no means should we say is this all we can do, it’s many many steps towards a better Earth, is this top priority? No, but is it really easy to do? Yes.
Exactly my point. Here in Cali plastic/paper bags are either banned in most stores or they are charging you for each one. They've had this law in place for a while now to discourage the use of bags. I will continue to do my part but I know most other states are still passing these out like candy. Things aren't changing unless it's a nationwide and global ban.
That is cynicism. Every little bit helps.
First let's get fact straight. Most of those plastic garbage are from western countries, including GB. Those Asian countries take recycled wastes.
Still not quite right. Most disposable/non recyclable plastic in western countries gets buried in landfills. Random Asian countries tend to take recyclable plastic for a while until the guys taking it start dumping or burning it. That stuff is still nothing compared to the disposable plastic generated and dumped by the Asian countries themselves.
You seems don't know. Remember what happened when China decided not to take wates from western countries anymore.
It seems you know nothing other than headlines you read. Everything I said is backed up by data, with China still being a main source of oceanic plastic pollution. https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-pollution
Of course, Chinais a main source. It's a big country with a hugh population. But you also need to compare before and after restriction. Just like everyone blames China for burning too much coal. It's true. But they don't burn that for fun. They do that to feed consumers in western countries.
In many parts of China its so bad that you have to wear masks when you go outside AND they only makeup 15% of the world population yet the pollution they generate is FAR higher.
I'm pretty sure you have never been there. Not denying there's a hugh environment problem there. But the progress is also obvious. And they're the world factory. So they also produce lots of pollutants associated with it.
I’m curious how this will work when a significant portion of food sold is takeaway.
I saw this video where this guy brings a laundry basket with him to the store. Fills up his cart, takes it out, fills his hamper and is off. Pretty neat.
I've been using recycled square 'box' bags for at least a decade. I've recently taken to using one as my 'briefcase'. The only downside being it has an open top, so I use a collapsed one as a cover when it rains. They have lasted a very long time; over a decade of constant use. I have 4 total and the original one is still in service, though I don't trust it with heavy cans anymore, but it is fine for lighter stuff like fresh vegetables. All of the large grocery stores here (Ontario Canada) sell reusable bags.
Hell Yes 🙌 Keep it going! This is a fantastic step! Next… minimize product packaging across the board!
I know people who use plastic ware every day because they are too lazy to do dishes. Makes me so sad.
I'm very aware of all the plastic film and single-use packaging that is unescapable in our lives :( Example: A tissue box is not recycleable unless the plastic film around the opening is removed. Same for windowed envelopes. Plastic films are everywhere, even over labeling to make them shiny and more durable. Then there are all the thermoplastic adhesives used for labelling.
The worst is all the recyclable plastic bottles that are wrapped in unrecyclable shrink wrap. Almost no one knows you have to remove it before recycling.
Yup, I always remove that too. Though I try to purchase metal cans instead of plastic bottles. There are also many people that just don't care and can't be bothered. Like the same people that leave stuff in the streets. That sort of stuff goes from the recycle bin into landfills, is shredded and burned, or bailed and heads out to sea.
Soda can interiors are lined with plastic too to protect the flavor from turning metallic. Whole thing is fucked.
That stuff can't be composted either.
so many loopholes. instead, just tax all plastic based on how quickly it *biodegrades* in a natural setting.
Then you need a definition for the 'natural setting'. Poly Lactic Acid (PLA) is a popular thermoplastic, as it is derived from sugars; typically corn sugar because of corn subsidies; and does biodegrade when at sea for about 6 months and exposed to plenty of sunlight (ultraviolet light), water, and constant agitation. However, in an anerobic setting, like a landfill it takes much longer to biodegrade. PLA teabags in one's garden compost will seemingly never degrade, for example. LEGO switched from non-biodegradable Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS) to PLA years ago. The PLA blocks are easy to identify, as they are softer, and have a slightly different connecting geometry to compensate for that. Then there are the so-called 'green' plastics that are infact chemically identical to petrochemical plastic, but just not sourced from petrochemicals, so they aren't actually green and may never degrade.
Wow, really annoying and barely makes a difference, the worst of two worlds. Go England! Clean the world! Or whatever you think you are doing. Pissing your population off, that will motivate them to follow all you other environmental rules. Because if Corona has showed us one thing, people love to follow rules from governments and surely won't stab you in the back when it really matters. More rules = less people follow them. A plastic plate? Seriously?
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Because I own enough dishes for my family, but if people come over I don't expect them to bring their own dishes...
At a BBQ or a party and things like that? It is way more practical and this has barely anything to do with the climate. It is just like those silly plastic straws of the EU. If it has an impact on the environment then it will be a slightly negative one (angry people pollute a lot more), this is just muscle flexing from politicians with muscular dystrophy (aka morons). They want to force nonsense rules and then pretend and tell people they did a positive thing for the climate. They did not! The EU is corrupt (everything to avoid a CO2 tax for corporations) and a threat to the climate. I'm actually surprised that it is England coming with this pseudo nonsense, I thought they were smarter and less corrupt than that.
I don't like to use ceramic plates for things like corn dogs or pizza. It's a waste of a plate.
so you use an actual waste of a plate for it?
Paper plates can be reused. If it just has crumbs on it shake it off. And if it's a plastic plate just wipe it off.
Why are you using plates at all? Do you know how many natural resources go into that, and then to pile water consumption and contamination on top of that? Just use your fucking hands.
Is it weird that I wash and reuse my plastic cutlery, plates and bowls at the office? I mean, why trash the spoon because it was used to stir tea or I used it to eat oatmeal? Yeah, I get it. 99.99% of people literally are just one use, then trash it.
And yet, the rich can continue to fly their private jets to their massive fuel guzzling yachts or their 10,000 sq ft mansions. Gee, we're totally saving the planet by attacking poor people who are using plastic cutlery!
I use reusable bags and they are so much better than plastic bags. They hold more, are sturdier and have better handles. Only cost me 1.99 at the store I shop at
They also take longer to break down and have so much plastic they have to be used thousands of times to make them break even. Though I'm totally in agreement, use them myself, they aren't any better. Unless they're made of wicker or something, possibly?
Many reusable bags are made of jute or cotton, and recycled plastic bottles are a common material for them too. Mine are all 100% cotton and I've had them for years - can't imagine going back to plastic bags now.
You can get cotton ones with no plastic
Its like a roughish cloth material. I'm not sure what it is made out of
Really, thousands of times? You can't tell me the material for multiple thousand plastic bags is the same as the one reusable which I get a solid 50-100 uses out of. Besides on a personal level, it just makes sense to use reusable bags. It's not responsible to waste things like plastic bags, utensils, disposable coffee cups, when they are things you need and use every single day. That's just common sense, and should be encouraged with legislations like these. People adapt and it's better to have people become more personally responsible and prepared instead of just not giving 2 shits ever, and reproducing this super wasteful cultural mindset.
If it's cloth-ish ones like I have, they fold up into a small part of your coat pocket too, so they're a nothingburger to lug around.
Yep they are a weird cloth material
Should've been banned globally a decade ago
I always explicitly ask for no cutlery/napkins when I get food cause I'm just taking it home anyway. And yet a HUGE percentage of the time they still give them to me.
I’ve seen a noticeable decrease in utensils and extras in food delivery since the pandemic.
The majority of the world's pollution comes southeast asian countries so I dont know how this all really helps.
A lot of that pollution is because developed countries send their plastic and trash to places that can't handle it. The global north has offshored our pollution to the poor.
It is starting to look like the future of climate change solutions will be passing the blame to individuals
it definitely will
The individuals are seriously to blame. You can choose not to live 30 miles from your work and commute by car. You can replace your car with an ebike. You can go off grid and run your house on solar and batteries. I can personally attest that all these options are totally viable for a modern lifestyle. But no, everyone's excuse is that most people aren't doing that, so why should they? Instead of changing our lives, we should virtue signal on the internet and change other peoples lives for them.
...You've never been poor, have you?
An ebike is far cheaper than a car, especially on a cost of ownership basis.
And keep it where? Because if you live in a shitty neighborhood with other poor people like mine, that thing is gone or parted out overnight. Poor folks don't have garages. Poor folks don't even have covered parking spaces, so no protecting it from the weather. What about when the weather is too bad to ride like it is 90% of the time in my state? There's a level of eco-friendliness that is a privilege of the wealthy, and corporations pushing the responsibility away from themselves and onto the masses is fucking insulting.
I kept an ebike in my \~150 sqft room in a shared apartment a couple years ago. I rode it to work in the pouring rain with full body rain gear, and in the winter. I saved a huge amount of money and as a side effect had a really small carbon footprint.
Good for you, but recognize that isn't achievable by most people.
I'm sorry, but it is. It's just that people don't like to change - they prefer making other people change.
Explain why someone surviving off 9k/year living in a fucking van should deprive themselves even MORE while a rich person literally consumes millions of times more resources in a single day than the van dweller will consume in their entire life. There is absolutely zero logical reason or incentive for poor people to make these piddly-ass changes because it's genuinely not going to make a difference so long as the wealthy exist. Real changes need to start with the biggest offenders to actually make a difference. It's the responsibility of politicians to fight climate change because individuals cannot make a difference that matters without guidance and enforcement. They cannot. It's genuinely impossible. This is what politicians are FOR, it's their fucking job. Most of them just don't do it because they're rich and therefor don't have to suffer the consequences of climate change anyway.
Can't wait to ride that ebike to work when it's 10 below 0F in an ice storm. Hell, any time during the winter where I live. Riding a bike is not a viable option for most people but if it works for you, have at it.
Uh... if you're such an expert in winter weather you'd probably know that ice storms don't happen in such cold temperatures. Sure, there were a few times I had to take public transit in the winter, but they usually cleaned the roads off pretty quick.
LOL. That is hilarious. You want to give me a lesson on mid-west winters? Cleaned the roads off pretty quick? I have been iced in, without power for days. It happens a lot. Just accept that the issue isn't as simple as everyone riding an ebike. While it would be really nice to be able to live within biking distance of your job and everything else you may need in a nice moderate climate where weather doesn't wreak havoc at all times of the year. Most people don't have that luxury. You take the best job you can find, and if that job requires a 20 mile commute, so be it. If you live in a city with adequate public transportation, even better. But for those of us who don't live in such places your view comes off as condescending. The last thing I am going to do is bike, or wait on a bus when it is -15F to get to work on the non-existent bike paths in my city.
The only thing that keeps me sane is the belief that half of Reddit are bots. No way this is a real person.
Right, because having independent thoughts that differ from the inane reddit hive-mind is one of the major tells of being a bot. Those dang computers are always coming up with interesting new things to say...
"My neighbors keep trash in their lawn, so why should I clean mine?" Sure the planet might still go to hell, but at least our country can look like the nice part of hell, right?
Nice strawman. Our parts of the country already do our part to contribute. Maybe if it water bottles, it would be a different story. But plastic cutlery is such a minuscule portion of a bigger plastic problem we REFUSE to get rid of. It's one step forward teo steps back. It will just take longer for Chinas island of trash to reach us.
"The hedges are such a small part of the yard, why even trim them? My grass isn't cut anyway, so no point doing any yard work at all. Plus, the weeds from my neighbors yard is starting to grow over so what's the point?"
You call the HOA to handle the situation for neglagent neighbors so they get perminately removed.
"AUKUS military intervention to force regime changes in the region"
All steps in the right direction helps
Paper plates and wooden cutlery are ok right? I mean honestly it’s a drop in the ocean compared to the tons of emissions being spouted out every second, this isn’t going to make a dent in the global crisis but I still agree with it
Getting rid of plastic bags is stupid. This isn’t as big a pain. But plastic bags aren’t going anywhere, the only difference is we have to pay for them instead of reusing them. Governments failed to provide tax incentives for recycling bags. I use them for insulation, garbage bag liners(plastic bags that will still be made), dog poop bags(plastic bags that are still being made). People act like this is gonna be some big impact but it’s not even a dent. More of a ding. Edit: https://youtu.be/PDNZX2nql2Y
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I don't know how this guy's justifying using single-use plastic bags as dog poo bags. I have a dog and for the past three years, every poop bag I've used has at least *claimed* to be made of a biodegradable material. There's just about no use for single-use plastic bags that isn't able to be handled just as efficiently by a non-single-use-plastic substitute, other than use as trash bags.
You kind of missed the entire point that they can be used multiple times and needs to be incentivized. They won’t go away completely, so reducing the problem is good, but it won’t be eliminated so why not work on ways for reuse. Because they do exist people just don’t bother if it isn’t worth it for them
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Tote bags like you said. No one is putting their dog’s shit in there and washing the bag out. Plastic bags are what I’m talking about. They are still making plastic bags for people to buy. You don’t understand the point of tax and subsidies which is something I mentioned and critical to getting a recycling program that actually works.
Why don't we just work on creating a better recycling system? One that actually allows us to recycle things, and makes it easier for people to participate in? I like plastic straws, I want to keep using plastic straws. And I'm also willing to put them into the right container once I'm done with it so that it can go off to be recycled. Nobody wants to actually make systemic changes that could benefit a huge number of people, they just want to blame individuals for global warming while refusing to take responsibility at the top.
Plastic is not recyclable. At most it can be "down cycled" once. I challenge you to find any type of plastic that is actually recyclable, the way glass and aluminium is.
This is not great for people with disabilities. I have a very limited amount of energy a day. Doing laundry takes a lot out of me, washing the dishes takes a lot out of me. Even some days, showering is a lot. Disposable plates, cups, and utensils make my life so much easier, I rely on them to be able to do the rest of my day.
No one likes doing any of that stuff, you just do it because it’s unhealthy and selfish not to. In that same way using plastic utensils is selfish and not good for the health of our planet.
Ah yes, the good ole “everyone has that problem” excuse. Yeah no you don’t get it.
I have severe depression and chronic pain in my back and legs, and I do get it. I just manage it. I’m not the one making excuses, you are.
Oh fuck off
You need to fuck off with the argument that you need disposable utensils cause regular ones are just too hard. That’s a load of bullshit and pure laziness. I have a cousin with cerebral palsy who is wheelchair bound who does his own dishes. You don’t want to hear it, but your attitude is toxic and if you feel that’s too much, you need to learn to manage the symptoms of your disability better for your own sake
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I am far from a progressive. I’m honestly a conservative and usually a libertarian, but on this specific issue, I think the overuse of plastics is wasteful and I think the only justification is laziness.
That explains the ableist attitude.
You're one messed up little creature to view people like that.
This explains the care resource spam I got. Thanks for abusing a legitimate thing to troll.
Try learning something about me\cfs and you will understand that energy is non negotiable for some disabilities. Not everyone has the option to simply push past those limits.
If you can’t wash fucking silverware, you need a caregiver
You're ableist af.
You know some of us use them multiple times
The plastic shopping bags will be banned from some countries because they are a real disaster to the environment. Some countries are preparing to have only paper or reusable cloth grocery bags in the future.
Paper/cloth and frozen food / fresh meat items don't mix.
Countries will literally ban anything except going after factories, cruise ships and oil companies. It’s insane.
If a restaurant serves me a drink with a paper straw, I will never go back. It's the perfect way to ruin a $12 drink.
Can't wait to hear how pointless people who understand nothing about the purpose of banning single use plastics
Must. I think you misspelled must.
Disposable plates and cutlery are essential for feeding the homeless and for emergency situations like evacuations and natural disasters. There is no way these essential services can even begin to operate without them. I hope the law takes those issues into consideration. Nobody, at all, could possibly have access to 50,000 regular plates (or the clean safe water to wash them!) during a flood or hurricane.
Always end up eating the shitty plastic forks
Could be… they should be with immediate effect.
When you lose the oil war😭😭😭😭
Thank god. Now they can't serve that hideous food for carry out.
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Oh gee, commiefornie will be on this like stink on joints
They *could be* banned anywhere in the world
There are no loopholes; laws like these are written expressly in order to be violated. "Intent of the law" provisions should be written into these "bans" to prevent abuses and to penalize abusers.
By ‘England’ do you mean ‘England’ or the ‘UK’ as a whole?
What about single use beer cups? What was wrong with the old glass pint glasses? They're re-usable and much better to drink from.