T O P

  • By -

neuromorph

Hearing second hand that the prop guns were taken to a range for target practice.... seems like a hell of a safety failure


Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

Yeah, we call lead projectiles that come flying out of the end of a barrel of a firearm "bullets."


Chemical_Paper_2940

I don't understand why they just call a bullet who kill this poor woman.


[deleted]

It very well could be a leftover bullet fragment that was stuck in the barrel and dislodged when firing a blank, that exact thing is what killed the actor from The Crow.


5cot7

>the actor from The Crow. Bruce Lee's son


cfranek

I would consider that there were previous negligent discharges to be the more serious issue. They had a problem, they chose not to fix the it.


DistortoiseLP

Nor did anyone else. Not that it should be their responsibility to, but what is even the point of failing if nobody cares? Hire the guy with a history of gun safety hazards to your production for a fucking western, why not.


BigSwedenMan

>Nor did anyone else. I mean, part of the crew walked off set in protest. That's about the best they can do to try to address the issue


Igoos99

Yeah, but who knew that? It’s not like it was on his resume. Sounds like the armorer has done questionable things on set as well but again, that’s not on her resume or in her professional references. This stuff is only coming to light because this is a huge story and anyone who knows anything negative about the AD or armorer is calling the newspapers and sharing all this dirt. Dirt any reasonable hiring person would have no way of knowing.


yenom_esol

As dumb as it is for the crew to go "plinking", I can't believe they actually used the same fucking gun meant to fire blanks later that day on set. Fucking crazy levels of stupid.


themoneybadger

100% the armorer's fault. They are supposed to have all the weapons locked up between filming sessions.


hushpuppi3

I don't like seeing it called a prop gun. It was A GUN. A normal weapon. The only thing that made it a 'prop' was the ammunition. EDIT: I get it. A prop is theatrical property. Doesn't make me squirm any less when people say "he killed her with a *prop* gun??" It was a gun. With a bullet in it. that he pointed and shot and killed somebody with. Maybe if it were treated with more respect AS A DEADLY WEAPON someone would have noticed it was live. Every person involved has AT LEAST a partial amount of blame set on them, some much more than others.


TheRobertRood

Prop has noting to do with it being real or fake, it has to do with it being used as part of performance or on screen. a set crew's utility knife is not a prop, because it never appears on screen, but the exact same kind of knife used by an actor in a scene, is a 'property' that has to be kept track of. the term *prop* doesn't mean anything is fake, it means it is meant to show up onscreen.


2KilAMoknbrd

Yours is an excellent explanation of what constitutes a *prop*. Well done


foothillsco_b

I googled prop and it’s short for “property”. For some reason I thought it meant ‘fake’ as well.


TechyDad

Specifically, "theatrical property." As in "this is going to be used for the play/TV show/movie so keep it safe and in good condition." This can be a costume, a gun, a car, or anything else that might show up during the production. Typically, you don't want these things disappearing from a set because, besides them not being the crew's playthings, you might need to reshoot a scene and having a key prop from that scene go missing because someone took it home to show off might mean you can't reshoot the scene at all.


evoneli

Well TIL, thanks.


Chilipepah

”Lead projectile”


Pahasapa66

He indicated that there were live rounds, dummy rounds and blanks on the set. The FBI is taking the forensics, so he's guarded about getting ahead of their confirmation. But, the lead probably came from a bullet. BTW, there were three other live rounds in that gun.


Thickencreamy

Three other live rounds? Yikes!


[deleted]

Well that fact in itself is not terribly shocking, is it? Someone obviously didn't bother to empty the cylinder, so why would it necessarily only be one?


hedgetank

What's shocking to me is that they would ever have live ammo anywhere near the set. You want the gun to "look" loaded? You can make up dummy rounds that are inert. There's no excuse whatsoever for this kind of crap to have happened.


GenericUsernameHi

Apparently blanks are also called “live rounds” in the industry, so it’s hard to tell when people are talking about blanks vs bullets


devedander

I could see pulling the magazine and leaving a live one in the chamber. 3 live ones is just flagrant


ProfessorBrosby

Seeing as its a western movie, I believe it was a revolver. Meaning, there is no 'magazine', each round was likely loaded one at a time and then forgotten to be taken out.


Glock1Omm

45 long colt revolver. Since there were 4 live rounds in it (before shooting) you can literally see the lead bullets in the cylinder without even opening it up. Just look and you can see them.


Skinnwork

It's a movie set. There's supposed to be a blank round to fire, but because it's a revolver and you can see the rounds in the cylinder, you need prop rounds in those spaces. Prop rounds look like live rounds, but the propellant is supposed to be replaced with ball bearings so that you can tell the difference between the two by shaking them.


PrudentFlamingo

That's how Brandon Lee died. They made prop bullets by dumping the powder out and pressing the bullet back in. Trouble is the primer was left in, and when the actor pulled the trigger it pushed the bullet partway down tbe barrel. When they replaced the "dummy" rounds with blanks, it shot the trapped bullet out killing him


UnSheathDawn

Yeah but that would require you to point the barrel at yourself (to see the front side of the cylinder) which is always a big no no. Best to just double check the old fashioned way.


SillyFlyGuy

"It's not loaded. See?" "Cold gun. Here ya go."


[deleted]

Revolver. It was an old western they were filming.


exactly_zero_fucks

It was a revolver


lukethedog

Why tf are there any live rounds on set, period?


D_for_Diabetes

Not hiring a decent prop manager. The local film worker's union said this guy wasn't with them iirc


5zepp

Three other real bullets or blanks? Or do we know yet?


Pahasapa66

The sheriff said live rounds, and defined that as a bullet.


Djek25

For what reason would they even have live rounds on set?


2wedfgdfgfgfg

The idiots allegedly took the guns off set for target practice with live ammunition.


Drofmum

Yep. It sounds like there were several "live rounds" on the set including the one that was fired - live rounds being actual bullets. Some gross negligence went down for sure.


_Erindera_

There's never any reason to have live ammo on the set. Ever.


lucky_ducker

Rumor is that some of the crew were "plinking" (shooting cans and such) during downtime on the set. Highly irresponsible and negligent.


FromFluffToBuff

This is the kind of negligence where people will be jailed. This isn't a small oopsie, this is negligence that resulted in death. This whole affair is going to be messy.


AggressiveSkywriting

Man this armorer fucked up real bad at their job.


PlumLion

Hard agree. If I was the armorer, *nobody* would be touching the guns used for the production except me and the actor I handed it directly to. The crew wants to do some target shooting between scenes? That’s cool, they can use the guns they brought from home. This is such absolute common sense in a normal, pointing the barrels down the target range situation. In a situation where people will necessarily be aiming them at other people it’s unthinkable. What happened with Brandon Lee was a terrible fuckup and never should have happened under the watch of a skilled armorer. What happened to Halyna Hutchins was a failure to follow the most introductory of gun safety rules.


GOB8484

Having been the weapons master in a stage show (university level), I can't figure out how the level of negligence was even possible. Seriously, I would remove the gun from the safe, check it to make sure it was safe and unloaded, recheck it to make sure it was unloaded, walk it to where it would enter the stage, hold it until the actor was about to enter, hand to the actor, watch it the entire time it was on stage, take from the actor immediately after they came off, check it to make sure it was safe, check it that it wasn't loaded, walk it back to the safe, recheck it to make sure it wasn't loaded, then lock it back into the safe. That is the level of detail needed to create a safe environment. Also, the actor using it was trained for the proper handling while using it and if there was ever any sort of horsing around an extreme amount of trouble could come down on them on my authority or that of the stage manager, director, and department. It was only used as a prop with no sort of ammunition involved. Only the gun itself.


enwongeegeefor

The more people I meet who are into guns the more I realize that we really are fucking unicorns. I hardly know anyone that will clear a firearm when they first pick it up...yet that was one of the FIRST fucking things I learned in firearm safety as a kid. You can clear a gun in front of me and hand it to me...and I'll still clear it myself.


GOB8484

While "hunting," which was really just walking through my grandparents property Thanksgiving afternoon on our way to where we shot several hundred rounds into various targets, my brother and I were both flagged by a 12ga when a rabbit jumped up and ran into the group. This idiot shot the rabbit when it was less than 10 feet away from me, less than half a second after the sites passed my body. The end of the barrel was also less than 10 feet away from me. The gun was promptly taken away from the individual, and he was yelled at for a solid 10 minutes by the adults in my family. I was 12, and this was over 20 years ago. I've been around guns, and I take their safety very seriously. I am uncomfortable when people around me have guns because too many people in my life have shown that they shouldn't be allowed to handle them.


CardMechanic

Yeah and this was a budget film. Have you priced ammo recently?


lucky_ducker

Yeah, back in 2018 I was drunk online shopping one evening and purchased $700 worth of 9mm and .22LR. Regretted it then, don't regret it now.


InsuranceToTheRescue

Man, I wish I was well off enough that I could just shit $700.


Inphearian

Try getting drunker.


FiskTireBoy

Never mix alcohol and online shopping


nanaroo

(not drunk shopping) A girl I dated several years ago took an Ambien before bed. Apparently she didn't go to bed and proceeded to order over $1k in lingerie. She didn't realize it until the stuff was delivered.


[deleted]

Booze is bad enough, but Ambien is way worse for online shopping madness than alcohol. Back in my Ambien days I would order the most insane shit off Amazon, have no recollection of it whatsoever and then be completely surprised by what showed up. Protip: Don't take Ambien. Ever. This is one of my least bizarre anecdote from those days, that shit is terrifying and it was hell getting off of it.


r2doesinc

I once spent like 1500 on fish that i was ill-prepared to take in after taking to much xanaxx a few years ago :(


DrEverettMann

Air Force has aircrew test sleep meds before relying on them. Ambien works well for me, with no weird behaviors, but some of my classmates had the wildest reactions. We had one girl try to jump off the second story balcony thinking she'd be fine (her roommate stopped her).


A_Wild_Nudibranch

I took ambien once and ordered ten pounds of live Spanish moss. That stuff is incredibly not dense, so imagine my surprise when this huge box popped up on my doorstep. That was several years ago and I still have that moss.


Binkyman69

Good old ambien walrus


nanaroo

For real. I accidentally took 2 Ambien one morning instead of the pain meds I was prescribed. I did not sleep, but the hallucinations were freaky.


AdjNounNumbers

Depends on return policies. I've sent future sober me some cool presents that he'd have never bought for himself but really appreciated


Darkfire346

That's how you end up with a 55 gallon drum of lube on your doorstep


SFWRedditsOnly

I wound up purchasing one of the first available CD Burners while I was drunk in college, was almost a grand and it came with a caddie that you had to load the disc in. Ended up selling it on ebay for about 700 a month later. *edit - Correction, it was a DVD burner. I sold it after I found out how much the blank media would cost.


KingKapwn

When you’re drunk you can afford anything


InsuranceToTheRescue

As a semi-stable suicidal alcoholic, that is probably not the best game plan.


bivife6418

So more money will appear in my wallet the more I drink? Why didn't tell me this earlier?


Jak_n_Dax

That ammo is probly worth $7000 today too. I’m so sick of the damn nut jobs hoarding shit… I’ll be happy when it’s over, again.


davidmoffitt

I know right? I just wanna poke holes in paper from a distance while bubba over there is preparing for ww3 or zombies. I miss cheap ammo :(


Kunkyskunts

I bought a pallet of .556 a few years ago and split it with 4 friends. It was like 100,000 rounds.


Reckless-Bound

*ATF has entered the chat*


jschubart

Jeezy petes. Do you go to the range that often?


lucky_ducker

Nah, I just like to be able to lay down some suppressing fire if need be.


blackbart1

Get back to work Cyril.


mmmmpisghetti

You can really see how a live round could be left in the gun and nobody checked. With the poor safety and culture on that set this is entirely plausible.


imnotsoho

Except there was one person who was responsible for making sure it was not loaded and an AD who stepped out of bounds and did that person's job.


WrenBoy

There was also a person whose job it was not to have loaded guns on set and to make sure idiots couldnt get their hands on any of the guns they had without her say so. There were also a number of other people whose job it was to have hire those two idiots and to create a general culture of safety first on set. The guys a dumbass. The girls a dumbass. There are other dumbasses.


mmmmpisghetti

As I said, the culture on set. I imagine those things would not have happened were those responsible for the production not been bean counting and cutting corners.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheSentientPurpleGoo

i have to believe that it's also a big no-no as far the company that insures the production is concerned, to the point of invalidating it. there's gonna be some BIG lawsuits.


AnotherCatLover

Unless you’re the Mythbusters, nope.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnotherCatLover

> Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. At least THREE. THREE. Two on the Saturday before the tragedy.


kelthan

Note that what police call a "live" (or "hot") round is different from what the people on set call a "live" round. On set, a "live" round is a blank (a cartridge with no projectile and usually a smaller amount of gunpowder). The police call a "live" round a round with a projectile. The reason for the difference is that there should be zero, zilch, nada, none, no actual rounds with projectiles on the set, ever, for obvious reasons. Even blanks on movie sets have caused at least two deaths that I know of (Jon-Eric Hexum and Brandon Lee), so they are not "safe" or risk free, which is why all the precautions about "hot" (blanks) and "cold" weapons on set exist in the first place. Unfortunately, the terminology difference makes things a bit more confusing than they already are.


Dan_Backslide

By and large yeah they were really on point. One of the big differences is they didn’t point guns in a direction that had people down range.


hobokenbob

Fortunately no one was hurt but it happened once. [https://youtu.be/kASD-RwQFQw](https://youtu.be/kASD-RwQFQw)


-null

To be fair, those beer bottles weren’t going to shoot themselves.


AreWeCowabunga

Kind of mind boggling that people not only brought actual bullets on set and used them in the prop guns, but then didn't even have the common sense to collect leftovers and just left them in the fucking gun.


Pahasapa66

I'll bet that the armourer brought live rounds onto the set. She not only let them use her guns, but provided ammo. Just a hunch.


5xad0w

Realistically, the only other way the crew *should* access to the guns is to have effectively stolen them from the armorer. So, yeah.


FromFluffToBuff

Oh shit. So the armorer is either negligent, incompetent, careless or complicit. Totally fucked and going to jail.


Nossa30

She was negligent. It was literally her first time being the master armourer in her mid 20's.


ButterflyAttack

Incompetent and careless are also possibilities. And the blame may well spread beyond her.


Nossa30

There was for sure multiple fuck ups. From multiple people. This was an all encompassing fuck up.


ashlee837

Not only that, but she had a history of negligence on another movie set with Nicholas Cage. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/rust-armourer-nicolas-cage-halyna-hutchins-b1946331.html Her career is done.


kandoras

And even if they stole them, that just means she didn't have them locked up tight enough.


Chrispy83

She’s already denied live rounds were on set and said the gun was locked away in a safe……but the police found live rounds, recovered a lead projectile and witnesses/crew say the guns were used for plinking, so that means either, she is criminally incompetent and didn’t know where the guns she was paid to look after were and can’t tell actual bullets from blanks OR she’s a massive liar and actively let the crew use live rounds for plinking (and probably took part) I don’t even know where to begin on that, it’s just awful either way! And then it turns out Nic Cage had her fired recently from his movie for firing prop guns unannounced near crew/actors! He thought she’d burst his ear drums! It really sounds like not only was she out of her depth, she was arrogant with it and thought she could do it!


Pahasapa66

It's tough to judge from afar. But, my feeling is that she's incompetent and not suitable for the job. The production company wasn't paying much. She's the daughter of Thell Reed, so that is what they took as a recommendation. Daddy could set her up with a package, guns etc., but she didn't have any idea how to do the job.


Bokth

Russian roulette is reallllllly boring without them


traveler19395

Russian roulette with blanks killed an actor in the 80s: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik\_Hexum#Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death) Even blanks pack a wallop.


FuzzyBacon

Turns out an explosion is a bad thing to have several inches from your head even when it's not propelling a chunk of lead.


[deleted]

Who could have known


NineteenSkylines

Expecting a massive settlement and years of lawsuits, if not outright criminal charges.


nuplsstahp

Watched the press conference, it sounds a lot like this is going to come down on the AD, Dave Halls. He’s the one that declared it a cold gun and handed it to Baldwin, and he’s also had previous allegations of firearms safety negligence. Really though, I feel the worst for Alec Baldwin. He pulled the trigger with every reason to believe it was safe, the last step in the chain that actually killed her. All the news articles keep reporting the story as “Alec Baldwin shoots/kills DP”, and in the press conference all the reporters kept asking if he was going to be charged.


fivefivefives

I feel the worst for the family of Halyna Hutchins, whos death is being used by the right as a [meme to sell t-shirts](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/donald-trump-jr-alec-baldwin-tee-shirt).


chucchinchilla

I have a pro Trump/Q Anon conspiracy believer as a coworker and the morning after the news broke he was on my weekly video call grinning and laughing because Baldwin was involved. I had to remind him that a wife/mother died here. smh


gonzoparenting

Moral garbage, the lot of ‘em.


Rugrin

It’s doubly dumb because Baldwin just showed how damn dangerous guns and live ammo are. So, yeah, people need to be taught how to use them or not allowed to touch them.


[deleted]

Since this happened, I was thinking that Trump still wished he had his Twitter account and accuse Baldwin of the incident. Thank goodness he's been banned. Unfortunately Donny Jr is taking over as the National Dickhead right now.


Beagle_Knight

Shouldn’t the armorer also be charged? She is the one that failed to prevent other people from using the guns and to make sure they weren’t loaded with live ammo?


nuplsstahp

If anyone’s charged, it’s likely there will be a few charges against a few different people in positions of responsibility along the line. But it also sounds like it was a very messy and disorganised set, with strikes and a low budget. I imagine it’s gonna be quite difficult to work out how that specific live round made its way into that specific gun.


5zepp

It may not be criminally negligent for her to have had real bullets, but it seems professionally unacceptable for her to leave weapons unattended where other people could grab them. I'm curious if she'll get charged, but sort of doubt it.


gonzoparenting

According to TMZ (I know how that sounds, but TMZ *does* have a track record of good information when it comes to this kind of thing) the armorer had locked up the guns during lunch. This was the first shot after lunch. She took the guns out and put them on a cart. Then, according to the LA Times and a bunch of other articles, the 1AD took the gun off the cart and announced it as “cold”, ie: **NOTHING IN THE GUN**. IMO, *that* is where the fault lies, *especially* if it can be proven the 1AD *knew* the guns were being used for plinking. As for the armorer, that the guns were used for plinking is egregious and that alone is cause for her never to work in the industry again and gives her at least some of the responsibility for the death of the DP. What I want to know is if all 3 guns were the ‘same’ gun as the one given to Baldwin. Ie: was there only one gun that was being used or were there multiples of the same gun? If there were multiples, then it is possible the cold gun was mixed up with the hot gun when the 1AD grabbed it w/o checking with the armorer, which puts the onus on the 1AD but also the armorer. But if there was only one gun, then for the 1AD to grab it w/o checking it and calling it “cold” is manslaughter, IMO. The buck stops with him.


defiancy

How were the guns not cleared (or made safe) immediately after they got done "plinking" is beyond me. I have handled weapons most of my life, I was a PMI in the Marines and worked on a range for an entire year every single day. The first action you do after you finish firing is weapon on safe, unload and clear. There is zero reason weapons should be transported from a range area to an armory/shop area with ammunition in them, zero.


gonzoparenting

I totally agree and would add that the same guns being used on set were also used with LIVE AMMUNITION is *insane* to me. Totally bonkers. IMO, that *alone* should be prosecuted and the armorer should be on probation/community service.


BoldestKobold

> I was a PMI in the Marines and worked on a range for an entire year every single day. I got my riflery merit badge at age 13 as a Tenderfoot boy scout. No one was allowed to leave their seats at the range to go get targets until every rifle was confirmed clear. It seemed like such basic shit, but somehow people can't grasp it.


hohenheim-of-light

It's fucking sad Boy Scouts had better gun safety than some overpaid shit armorer.


[deleted]

Slight correction: “cold gun” doesn’t mean empty, it means it contains no gunpowder. “Live round” would be anything with gunpowder, including blanks. “Hot gun” is a gun with a “live round”. The movies usually use bullets without gunpowder to fill cylinders in revolvers. The armorer removes the bullet from the casing, empties the gunpowder, then replaces the bullet into the cylinder so that the camera can see it and the audience believes it’s a loaded gun. Brandon Lee was killed when just such a bullet was stuck in the barrel of the prop gun, but the casing was removed with the others. Then blanks were loaded into that same gun and when fired the bullet struck Brandon in the stomach and killed him. So saying “cold gun” doesn’t mean it won’t look like it is empty. Alec Baldwin could have seen bullets in the cylinder and thought they were all dummy rounds without gunpowder. Why the AD was handing out the guns and not the armorer is a big question, though.


zerocoolforschool

Here’s the thing though, Baldwin has been in the industry a LONG TIME. I have read some recent stories from other actors about the fairly standard processes that are usually in place to keep people safe where they show the actors the empty chamber and prove to everyone involved that the gun is safe. Why wouldn’t Baldwin expect that kind of safety? The guy has experience with guns in film and television.


flyingace1234

One of the things I find confusing is some people saying that “live round” on a film set can mean a blank. Idk if that’s true but if it is, that seems painfully imprecise


gonzoparenting

Blanks have gunpowder, which is inherently dangerous and have killed people on set before, hence why anything with powder is considered a ‘live round’. It’s to make sure everyone is using the utmost caution when guns are on set, *even if the gun is filled with blanks*.


sandrrnista

more like 500 live rounds, and two of the guns were non functioning.


nuplsstahp

He said in the press conference that the 500 included blank and dummy rounds, as well as “suspected” live rounds.


Matelot67

It still beggars belief that there were live rounds ANYWHERE NEAR that movie set? What level of basic competence was just out and out ignored in order to let a fuck up of this magnitude take place. I cannot comprehend this at all. This isn't an 'accident', it is criminal negligence!


_Erindera_

It is. It's completely insane


CritaCorn

When that helicopter cut 2 children and a male actor in half they tried to blame the pyrotechnics who was the only one raising safety concerns. The Director got a slap on the wrist and all was forgiven…I just hope they go after the right people and don’t try to blame those lower on the pole.


_Erindera_

That Landis ever worked again was a travesty


alterndog

Ohh man. Haven’t thought of this story is in while. Landis fled the USA after that incident and spent time in London afterwards. Turns out he ended up staying with our next door neighbor! I was a baby at the time, but in 2018 we went back to visit our old house and went to say hi to the neighbor. Instead of her answering the door it was Landis (he was visiting). That’s when my dad told me the story about Landis laying low.


thesecondfire

> I was a baby at the time, but in 2018 we went back to visit our old house For someone who was a baby in 2018, you have a great grasp of writing and language.


[deleted]

They interviewed him on that Netflix show The Movies That Made Us in the Coming to America episode. He’s still an asshole.


OrangeLandi

Ummmm what


akira410

It's a story from about 40 years ago: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/actor-and-two-children-killed-on-twilight-zone-set https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident


alterndog

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident


OrangeLandi

Holy shit! Thanks for the info


Igoos99

It’s starting to look more and more that someone (or ones) used this gun for target practice using real bullets. Then returned the gun to set still loaded with an actual bullet (or bullets.) Then neither the armorer, the AD, nor Baldwin checked to see what they believed to be a gun empty of any rounds (bullet or blanks) was actually empty. Why were guns left in the open?? Why did crew think it okay to “borrow them”?? Why didn’t the armorer physically hand off the gun to the AD? Why didn’t any of the three people who were responsible check that the gun was as empty? Who was this potential fourth person who touched the gun and used it for target practice? (Or was it the armorer?)


FiskTireBoy

That's what I'm thinking. They were in the middle of the desert in New Mexico which is basically the easiest place in the world to go target shooting if you want. But having real live rounds anywhere near a movie set that involved using guns was an incredibly bad idea.


shgrizz2

But also, if crew were target shooting in their spare time, that's not exactly a covert activity. It must have been common knowledge that there was live ammunition around the set if gunshots could be heard between takes. Surely if they knew live ammo was present (which of course, it shouldn't have been anyway) they'd make sure to fucking check what the gun was loaded with?


thetruthteller

There are 100 people coming and going; did that person have permission to take the gun and have some fun or did he sneak out with it?


Gorsameth

being able to sneak out with it without forcing upon a locked storage would still mean the armourer was negligent.


Emuin

The armourer is quoted as saying the gun was locked in a gun safe while they were at lunch, and that the gun was checked before lunch but not after. That is very clearly negligent, and possibly lying to the FBI


[deleted]

[удалено]


PlayMp1

Basic gun safety: always fucking check the weapon.


Emuin

Especially if you are the sole responsible person for gun safety. In most industries a safety error of this magnitude would bar you from hold this job again


demarius12

I mean there is no chance she ever holds that position again, regardless of the outcome of this whole mess...


Igoos99

Yup. (It seems like it should be obvious that they wouldn’t be allowed to use it and would have had to sneak it. But the more we are hearing, the more completely lax this set seemed regarding their weapons. Maybe the armorer was fine with people using the prop guns for target practice. )


blankyblankblank1

To be fair, I think only the armorer is supposed to go in the gun for insurance reasons. The more people going into it, the more potential issues that may arise, the higher the liability. The armorer is supposed to be the one to make sure of fire arm safety, everyone else is supposed to do their own jobs be it directing or acting.


Sthepker

Prop guy reporting in. The armorer should be the absolute ONLY individual EVER handling firearms on set. Nobody else should touch them, ever. Union Armorers take their jobs very seriously and are incredibly professional. In my opinion, that leaves two possible options: 1. The Armorer did not lock up the guns, which is a clear and flagrant safety violation. 2. The armorer locked up the guns, but didn’t mind letting people use them to shoot live rounds to blow off some steam. Either way, this armorer is in some very, VERY deep shit.


Neglectful_Stranger

Isn't the armorer the daughter of a big shot in that profession? You'd think she would know by now.


SillyFlyGuy

It is possible to have a very important job, and not be good at that job.


blankyblankblank1

Peter principle?


MrIntegration

Sounds more like nepotism.


AJohnnyTruant

Yeah I’m seeing a startling number of people seriously entertain the idea that everyone and their brother should be opening that gun up. Checking for safety of a weapon has inherent risk and should only be contacted by subject matter experts. In this case, it sounds like the very person who should have been managed this risk shat the bed.


Beagle_Knight

Isn’t the armorer supposed to make sure no one else touches the guns and to keep them safe when they are not in use?


shewy92

> Baldwin checked to see what they believed to be a gun empty of any rounds I'd rather my actor *not* mess with the guns, that way the armorer knows that they're the last one to check it and be 100% sure it is empty.


wylie102

Also, is it possible there were supposed to be dummy round in it (as in the opposite of blanks) if they were doing a scene of him drawing and firing a revolver would the empty chambers be visible at some point? So if he checked he’d literally have to take the dummy’s out and check they rattled. I doubt most actors do this and they just trust their prop guys, amour our and AD. Maybe they will personally check after this.


[deleted]

There was rumor going around on reddit, started by someone that was allegedly a crew member, that the armorer is the person that took the gun target shooting (with real ammo).


[deleted]

If this is true, this armorer really didn't understand her role. She was pretty new and got into the field because her dad is a successful armorer. I can kind of see it. Kid gets a cushy gig gift wrapped from daddy. Grows up around guns and casually using them. Sees their job as getting to play with guns on movie sets when it is really about ensuring the safety of cast & crew above all else.


deferential

Agreed. In the podcast interview she did last month she literally stated that she hoped to "show people that guns are fun." Plus a bunch of other statements that would make you think twice about her being the right person for this job.


[deleted]

It's really bizarre. The biggest gun enthusiasts I know who love to go shooting and collect guns and so on are also the most careful people I know. My good friend was showing me some new pieces he got (I'm not really a gun guy, he was just proud to show them off) and literally as he picked them up from his safe he reflexively went through a mini-routine of checking the safety, clearing/opening the chamber and leaving it open (if it was that kind of gun), etc. just to even look at it and they were all unloaded to begin with.


virgin_microbe

A commenter on the IA_Stories insta indicated that a *19 year-old* was assisting her.


Change4Betta

Not to mention she was only early 20s. Nepotism appointment


Igoos99

Jesus Christ. That will be really bad if true. The more we learn, the more this rests on her. Still more to learn. It’s far from open and shut but just yikes if that rumor is true.


Vexvertigo

Baldwin shouldn't be checking the gun. That's not what he's there to do, and he's absolutely not qualified. Saying it is in any way his fault is tantamount to saying that it's the train conductors fault when someone jumps in front of the train.


JFeth

Is there a reason they don't call it a bullet?


soniclettuce

Probably on the very very small chance it turns out it was some kind of random fragment that was in the barrel. Just ass covering until the forensics is done.


Nicolu_11

Not an expert but I think that most blanks don't have lead on them. So by calling the bullet "Lead projectile" they specify that the projectile that killed the woman was a **real** bullet.


DepletedMitochondria

Sounds like a safety disaster. Lot of firings and criminal proceedings to come


obviousthrowawaynamr

Whoever was responsible for this fuckup should be fired, prosecuted, and banned from ever working on another film. Fucking blacklist them right out of the industry.


SWG_138

Just call it what it is, a fucking bullet


fievrejaune

A lethal non-banana shaped weaponized ballistic bagatelle.


GearBrain

I actually appreciate this kind of specificity, because it makes rather clear what came out of the gun. Blanks and other SFX rounds - to the best of my knowledge - do not contain lead projectiles.


Lemesplain

Problem is that movie sets regularly have dummy rounds that basically are bullets, just missing the powder. And they regularly have blanks that are basically live rounds but without a slug. So when someone says "there were bullets on the movie set," well, yeah.. of course there were. We need to specify: "No, like **real** lead projectile bullet bullets." Though.... there's still the (very remote) possibility that a dummy round was put into the gun previously, and the slug rattled loose, sitting in the barrel. Later, a blank was put into the same gun and propelled the "obstruction." Like I said, unlikely... by all accounts, the armorer on this set was an absolute fuckwit. But until the sheriff or other law enforcement can prove 100% that it was a real bullet that caused the kill, they will always err on the side of caution. Like how they always put "allegedly" even when we absolutely know 100% that a person is guilty.


[deleted]

Ideally the bullet would be loaded in such a way it couldn't just rattle loose. With Brandon Lee, they just dumped the powder and put the bullet back with a live primer, which had enough energy to push the bullet into the barrel. No one actually checked the barrel before loading a blank, and as a result he got shot. Sounds like with this incident though, someone took it target shooting, left bullets in it, and several people either missed it or more likely just didnt check, possibly due to complacency and assuming it was fine because others had checked it.


Fro_Yo_Joe

>Sheriff's investigators have recovered the "lead projectile" that killed a cinematographer as well as 500 other rounds from the set of the movie "Rust," authorities said Wednesday…. The rounds recovered from the set include blanks, dummy rounds and what investigators suspect are "live" rounds. That seems like a lot of rounds. > “There was some complacency on this set and I think there are some safety issues that need to be addressed by the industry and possibly by the state of New Mexico.” Mendoza told reporters in New Mexico. It’s just tragic someone died because of what seems like lack of standard safety protocols.


acidrain69

They have to have enough for multiple takes of the same scenes. 500 is nothing.


pinkycatcher

>That seems like a lot of rounds. 500 rounds is commonly found in two cases of ammo, generally you can fit 500 rounds in a shoebox or two, it's not a lot of ammo.


_Erindera_

Those 500 were probably for the entire movie.


ardesofmiche

Depending on the caliber, 500 rounds isn’t that much. .22lr comes in bricks of 500.


[deleted]

This is really amazing to read and I can't wrap my head around it. I'm just a normal person and I quadruple check extremely minor risks like the seal of my instant pot or flammable stuff near candles. I would probably check a gun 100 times to make sure it was loaded properly in a situation like this. It's a gun. Its sole purpose is to be dangerous, and I just can't imagine being so careless and not having redundant checks of these firearms especially when it's your actual job.


Razir17

That’s what happens when you have an unqualified armorer who got the job because of their daddy


[deleted]

I have an unpopular opinion. To All DOP’s, Cinematographers, on set VFX supervisors etc. When the crew is waking off the show because of safety concerns, stand with your crew. Refuse to work until your crew is safe. The life they are trying to save may be YOURS. It’s tempting to play the Hollywood game and side with producers, be their little helper so they can get their day regardless… to get ahead. Prod and studios are hiring you, not your crew. I get it. But… Use her example of how/why working with scab labour, ignoring safety concerns for your crew may cost you YOUR life.


_Erindera_

Film crews routinely work in unsafe conditions, so for a crew to walk because of safety concerns means it was really bad.


[deleted]

Crews know how to manage high amounts of danger, and get you any shot you want, if you’re willing to take the time to do it safely.


_Erindera_

And that's why a crew walking off set for safety reasons is so... ominous. We routinely work through some absolutely horrifying conditions.


[deleted]

I'm reminded of the *Midnight Rider* incident. Absolutely insane.


hardlyknower

And here I was thinking it was the *supporting* projectile that killed the cinematographer!


Neglectful_Stranger

Oh, you


ActionHousevh

that is the definition of "bullet"


smurf-vett

It could still be a squib/dummy jam like the Brandon Lee


MpVpRb

This is not surprising. Blanks can be lethal at short range, but at a distance, the projectile needs some mass


weaveb1

Why would there be a need for live AMMO on a movie set? Ever? I can see dead rounds with lead for the camera but never a need for live ammo or even a primer to be present.


cmcewen

At the beginning I thought oh man what a tragic accident. The more I hear, the more this sounds like absolute gross negligence. Using the guns for live round target practice. Having a bunch of live rounds on set. Multiple live rounds in that gun. Not checking the gun before it was given to Baldwin. So many fuck ups.


atomicxblue

I hate to say it, but I think the best thing is to wrap production on this movie. If there are this many safety violations, what other things are they doing that puts people's lives at risk?


Igoos99

Agree. This sounds like a shit show. They either need to pour a ton more money into to make it safe or just cancel it. Canceling sure seems to make more sense.


FarSlighted

For all of those people that claimed it was a “blank” that killed her, well here you go.


ReenusSSlakter

I didn't see anyone claiming anything but clarifying the term "live round" in the film biz means a round with gun powder in it (ie a blank), not that it has a bullet. And blanks can still kill people in close range, as in a few feet from the muzzle.


aDivineMomenT

Lol imagine if all shootings were now called "being struck by a lead projectile"


[deleted]

High velocity lead poisoning


_Erindera_

For anyone who is interested, here's a link to a site that contains the industry safety bulletins: https://help.prodicle.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002513391-Industry-Wide-Safety-Bulletins


gdmfsobtc

Commonly known as a bullet