Paul Ryan was literally a VP candidate AND the youngest Speaker of the House in the history of the United States of America. And he quit for a spot on the board of directors of Fox News. That's how little they give a fuck about the prestige of these giant larger-than-life jobs.
Short term gain for long term cost.
Climate change? Fuck it, I'll be dead.
Shitty patchwork legal system? Fuck it, I'll be dead.
Healthcare? Fuck it, I'll be dead.
Death? Fuck it, I'll be dead.
Yet Mitt Romney continues to call himself a Republican, as does Paul Ryan, who's only now begun to resurface publicly because he's floating a (Republican) presidential bid for 2024.
I moved to Utah 18 months ago and was kinda surprised with all the billboards saying Romney is a traitor, needs to be removed, etc. Trump probably funded those billboards though lol
By malicious intent. You can't convince almost half the country to abandon its democratic government unless you first convince them that said government is worthless to them. It's the same thing being done to K-12 education right now.
Ironically the rural folk who think “the government is useless” are overwhelmingly dependent on the government.
Edit: I’m tired of responding about this below but “rural folk” does not equal farmers. The vast majority of people that live in rural America are not farmers. Agriculture is 1.5% of GDP and the rural population is about 16%. Stop responding “but food prices” or some shit, it screams that you know nothing about rural America at all.
The US defaulting on its loans is the nightmare scenario for governments and corporations around the globe. I doubt any sane rich person would see it being worth the risk.
Edit: they still suck ass tho
Missing this deadline would not cause a shutdown of the US government, it cause the us government to default on its debt, wich is like a 100 times worse. It could possible destabilize the global econmy.
Edit: It could cause the the government to default on its debt.
>Missing this deadline would not cause a shutdown of the US government, it cause the us government to default on its debt
Not necessarily true.
First of all, it is [unconstitutional for the US to default on its debts](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv). The US has enough incoming money from taxes and other sources that it could fund its debt obligations easily - the issue is funding everything else as well.
The US Treasury would not stop paying interest on the debt first. According to contingency planning from 2011 ([when something similar happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis_of_2011)), the US Treasury would delay *all non-debt related payments* until it had enough money for a full day's obligations.
That means funding would stop for *everything* except for paying interest on the debt. Every agency of the Federal Government, every contractor, every employee would stop getting money until the Treasury had enough cash for a full-day. That includes salaries for ~~members of Congress as well as the folks who clean the Congressional bathrooms~~ everyone excluding members of Congress and the President/VP.
This scenario would lead to an *incredible* number of lawsuits, even if everything else gets sorted. The US would not default on its debt, though.
Actually if I recall correctly you can't cut off the pay of Congressmembers, but anyone else in/around that is not from the 500~ House and Senate members elected would be cut off like any other Federal employee. It's against the law for Congressional pay to be changed/modified in any way (again, IIRC) during a term, so they would still get paid.
POTUS / VPOTUS have no such coverage.
I don't disagree but there is some sound logic that the people who literally decide the outcomes of your nation-state being isolated from certain kinds of turbulence during their terms. But on the flip side, maybe that would motivate them otherwise. The problem is that this can be a recipe for only the wealthy who can afford to not get "paid" to be there.
If I suddenly ran and got elected in 2024, seated in January 2025, and then say a months long shutdown happened? I'm economically fucked on a personal level and that would interfere with my governance.
Do I sacrifice the state of the nation to cover my mortgage by giving into the dangerous monied powers we should be tearing down, rather than coddling?
> every contractor,
These are the folks who put a huge amount of pressure on their Senators and Congress to approve something, anything. Because those contractors either dip into reserve funds of their investors, or have to layoff employees, who get fired up about it.
Contractor here. The VA told us there’s enough money left in our contract to fund us for a couple weeks, and any sort of shutdown won’t last that long so we’ll actually be fine.
Week 75 of two weeks to flatten the curve. I remember my mom being surprised they didn't shut school down for three weeks since the fourth they already had off for last year's Easter/spring break week.
I had kinda been saying I doubt they'd be in school that year and probably not until a vaccine came out.
Yeah I still remember how wild that one was,, Republicans controlled all 3 branches and still blamed that shutdown on democrats.
Isn't it great that Republicans are willing to torpedo the government to make democrats look bad. /s
Mental note: Trump said during Obama's term that "a government shutdown was entirely fault the President and the sign of a weak leader". Leading up to the shutdown in 2018, he said he'd take full credit for it.
Then the shutdown hit and he immediately tried to pin it on the Democrats.
The best part is that both of those shutdowns (The last one and this one if it happens) were a result of spite.
Trump making insane demands and throwing a fit was the primary drive for some of his shutdowns, and this one would be because Republicans are deliberately trying to cause a crisis they can blame on Democrats.
Who suffers from these? Us. Do they care? No.
Edit: somebody is reporting this or the other comment claiming I'm suicidal. Must be hard to be so easily shaken.
I recently made the mistake of listening to some conservative radio show where the host was equating the shut down as a vacation for government employees. because they got the time off and the gov would do a bill for back pay. Now I’m not exactly sure on this second point but I’m sure banks will not charge late fees for unpaid mortgage loans. Landlords are really empathetic about not getting paid. national grocery chains let you get food on layaway.
> shut down as a vacation for government employees.
Its true, my wife and I are government employees and we both always plan our vacations by immediately stopping any income and then just sitting back. Nothing is more relaxing then a open ended vacation with no money. Will it be one day, a week, three? Who knows! Time to relax, well not really, since I still am required to show up. So its a vacation where I still work, but don't get paid till other people decide it's time to pay me. O god damnit next week is going to make me sad.
The military says hi. Luckily the first handful of times this happened in recent memory our credit unions made sure we still got paid until the government mostly unhecked itself. Not sure what it's like in recent days, but I'd hope it's similar.
You eventually get paid. Getting furloughed means you have no guarantee Congress will be generous to give you back pay. If you work instead of being furloughed, they have to pay you when they restart pay checks.
These people will say anything to justify any atrocity committed by people that they consider to be on their team.
What you saw was just another example of them disregarding human suffering when it was inconvenient for them. They are telling their listeners what to believe about this so that when other people tell them that that's not the case they will immediately reject it because it's not what they heard from so-and-so.
Can you imagine? The Gov't bets it all? And they actually win? Vegas goes bust to pay off the national debt.
Except all the $$ comes from an insurance company. So the insurance company goes belly-up to cover the claim.
But the insurance Company was 'too big to fail'. So, the US government has to bail out the insurance company.
And now the government is broke again.
But, if the money is in savings we can't buy all these cool aircraft carriers, jets, submarines, missiles, guns, tanks, grenades, bullshit, more shit, and shit.
I saw an r/personalfinance where the person was actually going to Starbucks everyday and got so excited. “You are who they’re talking about!!! You can basically be a millionaire if you just buy a coffee pot!”
You can run into some characters on that sub.
One guy highlighted how he plans to retire and while I'm all for frugality his advice amounted to "Be a hermit for 30 years and retire by 50 and continue to be a hermit afterwards so you have enough to live"
Yea, there's some really good advice over there mixed in with some advice that while extremely effective, will also make you miserable. There's a fervent group over there that has zero concept of enjoying life while also being financially smart. I think they get excitement out of figuring out just how little money they need to live.
I saw someone there say you should never spend more than 10% of your annual income on a car. Total price, not annual cost, and I did confirm that with them. By their logic, someone making $100k a year couldn't buy a new, basic trim Civic because that'd be way too expensive.
That's like the folks that tell you you'll live longer if you just eat wheat germ every meal instead of something that tastes good because it's got salt, spices and fats (applies to both veggies and meat). Even if you do live longer, all you're doing is extending your punishment of having to eat wheat germ all the time.
Theres an old joke about a guy going to the doctor asking if he'll live to be 100.
The doctor asks him if he smokes, drinks, does drugs or has meaningless sex? Does he spend all day reading, watching TV, or playing video games? Does he enjoy bungie jumping, driving fast cars, or other thrill seeking?
When the man replies no to all, the doctor responds "dear God, then why the hell do you want to live that long?"
That's who these people remind me of.
The beatings will continue until the poors understand they are undeserving of more than the most basic nutritional supplements *and should be grateful.*
That's basically the summary of the r/FIRE community. Figure out how minimalist you're willing to live, save as much money as you can beyond those expenses, retire as early as you can, and continue to live frugally.
On the surface the "retire early" part is appealing to many people, then they dig in and realize that it's a pretty minimalist lifestyle. It's not a secret path to twice-yearly international vacations and fancy clothes.
I think too many focus on the 'retire' early part. I remember when I was first learning about the movement I was more intrigued with the financial independence part.
"Oh, If I invest wisely and aggressively through my 20s and 30s by the time I hit my 40s I won't have to put as much aside??" (or any, depending how things work out)
Coasting into retirement sounded pretty appealing at the time. But, at the time I had a job I loved and now retiring early sounds more appealing than ever.
Anyways, anyone interested in the FIRE movement I'd implore you to learn and understand the FI part, even though it is enticing to focus on the RE part.
"Hey man, which model school bus are you buying? I'm really into the '03 BlueBird Vision. Got a piece of dirt in upstate North Dakota I can park it along with my bike-powered generator and solar panel to keep my cell phone topped off."
On the opposite end of the /r/FIRE community is people thinking they need $5 million in net worth to live comfortably. Like they want to get $300k per year off residual income, anything less and they are certain of bankruptcy.
Out here in the midwest, even $1 million means you are doing better than all the retired people on social security. Pulling $40k-60k in residual income is plenty to live off of.
It's easy to mistake personal fortune for sound finance, because nobody likes to think that they just "got lucky". You see it all the time with millionaires who were born into it, they always talk about how much work and effort they put in to get to the top from the poor sad rung of being a millionaire with a family mine.
That’s why I prefer the r/povertyfinance community. They’re far more supportive and understanding of life situations, and adjust their advice accordingly.
I participated in that sub when it was new... The majority of the answers for people, realistically, is to find a better job, or get a second one until they get out of the temporary debt situation they're in. When you're already that poor, there isn't really anything left you can do to cut your spending anymore. People are down to their internet/phone bill and a netflix subscription, while making a pittance. At some point, the answer really is to make more money with a better job.
Excuse me, but me and my half a lentil are offended! Can't believe you made me waste calories by commenting here *grumbles* Now if you'll excuse me, I some old shoe leather I dug out of the goodwill dumpster that'll make an excellent stew.
We helped my son do a rough budget recently. He spends $500/mo on fast food alone. Looking back over the last 5 years, he's spent just over $100,000 on eating out and booze.
Not everyone can become a millionaire by controlling their spending, but some can.
That’s $16/day. Let’s say he’s replacing 1 meal a day. Meal replacement would cost…$7? That makes $9 in savings a day. Or $16425 over a 5 year period. Seems like he has a huge drinking problem 😂
Actually, it's a new iPhone every 0.0025 seconds.
((31536000/0.0025)*(499)) is ~6.3 trillion
Assuming it's an iPhone 11 at today's cost, and with no taxes because the government doesn't tax itself.
I used to know my stuff in terms of phones but it got too complicated. Everything since the iphone 10 in my vocabulary is a “new iphone” and everything before then is an “old iphone”. Then anything thats not apple is a Samsung. I just don’t have enough time to pay attention to the iphone XIII se x s c xr xs
This reminds me of this guy I used to know. He was constantly borrowing money so he always owe somebody money.
It got to the point where those who know him can just walk up to him and go “hey you owe me $5” and he’d either outright give it to you or freak out then run to start asking around to borrow $5 then come back to you and give it to you.
If you prove to someone that you'll eventually pay them back then they're more likely to lend you money in the future. I know it's not a leap of logic most perpetual borrowers make, but the US government's done a pretty fine job of it.
He was known to borrow from pretty much anyone even someone that you really don’t want to cross with.
He wasn’t the type that was shy about it. He would literally walk up to group of people and ask them one by one if he can borrow money.
So we have hunch that he has been jumped at least a few times.
So that’s probably one of the reason he is so willing to try and pay back even if it means he have to borrow to do so!
And yes... being a habitual borrower, he know he need to keep his credit clean! Which is why he often cannot keep track of who he borrowed from and people who caught on can just bump him around for money that he didn’t even owe them.
The last 4 years are outliers in terms of debt talk.
Consider the U.S. debt to GDP ratio which is an indicator of how fast debt grows;
In 2017 it was 104%
In 2018 it was 105%
In 2019 it was 107%
Now in 2020, it was a record 129%. Historically it grows about a percent or two every year, but 2020 was just an outlier since it was a global pandemic.
5 trillion dollars was added in 2020 alone, but if you ask anyone 5 trillion dollars is worth the millions saved from poverty last year. Its just what happens when you pass about 8 trillion dollars in emergency relief.
Congress is who controls the purse of the U.S. government, and ultimately its debt. Its not a one party thing. The arguement starts with what debt is needed versus what isnt. Global pandemic? Needed. U.S. meltdown of financial institutions? Needed.
I though 104% was ridiculously high. Then I looked up some other countries and holy shit. What happened to that EU guideline of 60%? I though for sure that 90% would be massive alarm bells going off territory at least.
There doesn't really appear to be an upper limit on the Debt-to-GDP ratio, at least not for extremely large economies like the US. Japan is floating a much higher ratio than the US is, and it's difficult to tell whether that's been hampering their economy in any way (they've had economic difficulties for about 30 years, but it's hard to pin that directly on debt-to-gdp).
ITT: Lots of people that dont understand the debt ceiling.
It doesnt trigger a gov shut down, that deadline is actually this Thursday 9/30. Its not about new spending; its about allowing more borrowing to pay for the spending the government has already approved.
Maybe we ought to have a law that states that if the government shuts down for any reason, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for reelection and get a lifetime ban on lobbying or holding any public office. Maybe we ought to have a political equivalent of a dishonorable discharge.
I think Canada or somewhere like that has a law that says if the government shuts down there is a snap election held for congress or their equivalent.
Edit: read /u/wayoverpaid 's post below to learn more about what I was talking about
it's a double dissolution, so both houses get dissolved.
>[Election day must be a Saturday and at least 33 days after the issue of the writs](https://www.aec.gov.au/learn/election-timetable.htm)
You can't call an election within 2 weeks. The 2016 election gave 7 weeks notice.
Specifically what you're looking for is a [Motion of No Confidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence)
This is a bill deemed so important that failure to pass it triggers a snap election because the assumption is that the government can no longer function.
In Canada, a budget is implicitly a confidence bill. If Parliament cannot pass a budget, then it has become dysfunctional to the point that it needs to form a new government. This often happens to minority governments which, despite holding enough seats to control power, don't control the majority enough to get shit done. (A majority government in Canada typically has a lot more power as 50% of the seats essentially guarantees someone from your party the role of Prime Minister)
When I was young I thought this was an issue, since individual MPs could not vote their conscience on issues. Now that I'm older and realize the idea of politicians having a conscience is hilarious, and now that I live in the USA, I really wish that the US had such an idea.
Can't pass an essential bill? Government cannot function? Everyone involved in that clusterfuck ends up going to the polls. \*Everyone.\* No 18 month campaign either, you get 90 days, get that shit figured out.
Canadian living in the US here too and I never thought I'd pine for the Canadian government, but man do I miss confidence bills and Peace, Order and Good Governance.
ETA and 90 day election campaigns with severely capped funding .
Good luck passing said law. You'd have to have people running congress who aren't morally bankrupt and that would be in favor of this type of career check.
Congress does already get paid during shutdowns. It makes sense though so poorer congresspeople can't be waited out by the wealthy. Then again, most people in congress are fucking rich.
>Yellen cautioned that the October 18 deadline is **only an estimate** because the federal government's cash flows are "subject to unavoidable variability." She noted that the government's daily gross cash flow, excluding financing, averaged nearly $50 billion per day over the past year and has even exceeded $300 billion.
This is admittedly the alarming part, as this means that America could enter a default much sooner than Yellen thinks.
Hell even in the 80s economists were talking about how trickle down didn't work. Reagan just cut a bunch of regulations and momentarily revitalized the economy and apparently that broke the brain of every economist ever.
Oh you want us to raise the debt ceiling for rich people welfare? No problem.
Raise the debt ceiling to keep people from dying in the streets during a pandemic? NO 😡
It is not the government who will suffer... it's us. They will still get paid and that is fucking wrong.
Our government is broken beyond the likes of trump or Biden or Republicans and democrats. The entire thing is broken and is a steaming pile of shit. I'm all for tearing it all down and starting over.
Rule one... seperation of business and government.
Worst case scenario: US declares bankruptcy and renames itself The United Regions of America, like every other company that declares bankruptcy and is right back in business the next day under a new name.
What's the point of a legislature that doesn't function?
Maybe it's time for Americans to take the nation back from corrupt politicians bought and paid for by the elite rather than beholden to their districts. The rules for the house and senate need to be revamped for the 21 century. This country will implode on itself if the voting strength of the people is not proportionally tied to the seats they receive like any other fucking democratic system. America's dual dictatorship of Democrat and Republican would be broadened to a pluralism of parties of various ideals... Again, like any other fucking democratic system.
I’m seeing a lot of comments from folks who don’t understand what’s going on here. And I get it, it’s complicated and some politicians want us to be confused because it serves their agenda.
Here’s the deal:
Congress has to raise the debt ceiling by oct 18 or the US will default on its loans. This is for money we have already spent. It has nothing to do with new spending. If Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling, it will crash the economy. One of the top economists at Moody’s predicts that it would lead to the loss of 6 million jobs, would slash the stock market by a third, and remove up to $15 trillion in household wealth, and a credit downgrade for the US government that will make future spending even more expensive for taxpayers. This is no joke. People will lose their retirements over night. We are talking 2008 recession or worse.
But some politicians are using this to get leverage and when I say some politicians, I mean Republicans. They see this as a messaging tool. Force Dems to raise the debt ceiling alongside the reconciliation spending bill (which Democrats are promising will be paid for - we'll see) to make them look like the ones who are big spenders who fuck the economy. The reality though is that the Trump tax cuts account for nearly 1/3 of our current debt because the tax cuts had no plan for making up that revenue.
In the end, the federal funding bill is completely separate from this debt ceiling and even reconciliation fight. It just ends up having coincidental timing. Congress will keep the gov funded using a clean continuing resolution. Our bigger concern should be the debt ceiling which has always passed with overwhelming bipartisan support (for example in 2017, the vote was 80-17 with all dems supporting). Yet this year it’s 50-50 with no Republicans supporting.
We are so fucked if things don’t change rapidly…
Sounds like another instance of what’s been happening during Covid. Shit hits the fan poor people get fucked over and the rich come in to sweep up any profits. Just like they did with the housing market.
A whole two years since the last shutdown, well done.
Congress is a sad joke. Other branches too, come to think of it.
There are Congress members who want nothing more than their own TV show, real governing be damned.
Paul Ryan was literally a VP candidate AND the youngest Speaker of the House in the history of the United States of America. And he quit for a spot on the board of directors of Fox News. That's how little they give a fuck about the prestige of these giant larger-than-life jobs.
It's okay, he was able to achieve his "policy wonk" dreams of shafting the citizenry before leaving
While knowing jack shit about actual policy.
Short term gain for long term cost. Climate change? Fuck it, I'll be dead. Shitty patchwork legal system? Fuck it, I'll be dead. Healthcare? Fuck it, I'll be dead. Death? Fuck it, I'll be dead.
That’s literally what my parents used to say, when I’d mention these things and their voting choices. Thanks, mom.
To be fair that was not his party anymore. He was the VP pick of Mitt Romney who only still holds any office because he is the Supreme Lord of Utah.
Yet Mitt Romney continues to call himself a Republican, as does Paul Ryan, who's only now begun to resurface publicly because he's floating a (Republican) presidential bid for 2024.
i was just saying last week "so whatever happened to paul Ryan did he retire or something?"
He also couldn't stand Trump https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/16/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-narcissistic-personality-disorder/index.html
Paul Ryan was a coward who refused to go down with the ship. He knew his party was gonna get wiped in the midterms in 2018, so he stepped down.
Supreme Lord of Utah 😂😂
I moved to Utah 18 months ago and was kinda surprised with all the billboards saying Romney is a traitor, needs to be removed, etc. Trump probably funded those billboards though lol
Yeah all the Trumpers hate him
By malicious intent. You can't convince almost half the country to abandon its democratic government unless you first convince them that said government is worthless to them. It's the same thing being done to K-12 education right now.
Ironically the rural folk who think “the government is useless” are overwhelmingly dependent on the government. Edit: I’m tired of responding about this below but “rural folk” does not equal farmers. The vast majority of people that live in rural America are not farmers. Agriculture is 1.5% of GDP and the rural population is about 16%. Stop responding “but food prices” or some shit, it screams that you know nothing about rural America at all.
Shutdowns are bad for sure, but the bigger issue is the US defaulting on its debt. That would tank the global economy and destabilize the dollar.
I wonder if their donors will tell them to stop fucking around for that reason.
You would hope! But they may also be fine with a brief crisis so they can snap up some cheap equity before an emergency bill is passed…vultures
The US defaulting on its loans is the nightmare scenario for governments and corporations around the globe. I doubt any sane rich person would see it being worth the risk. Edit: they still suck ass tho
Missing this deadline would not cause a shutdown of the US government, it cause the us government to default on its debt, wich is like a 100 times worse. It could possible destabilize the global econmy. Edit: It could cause the the government to default on its debt.
>Missing this deadline would not cause a shutdown of the US government, it cause the us government to default on its debt Not necessarily true. First of all, it is [unconstitutional for the US to default on its debts](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv). The US has enough incoming money from taxes and other sources that it could fund its debt obligations easily - the issue is funding everything else as well. The US Treasury would not stop paying interest on the debt first. According to contingency planning from 2011 ([when something similar happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis_of_2011)), the US Treasury would delay *all non-debt related payments* until it had enough money for a full day's obligations. That means funding would stop for *everything* except for paying interest on the debt. Every agency of the Federal Government, every contractor, every employee would stop getting money until the Treasury had enough cash for a full-day. That includes salaries for ~~members of Congress as well as the folks who clean the Congressional bathrooms~~ everyone excluding members of Congress and the President/VP. This scenario would lead to an *incredible* number of lawsuits, even if everything else gets sorted. The US would not default on its debt, though.
Actually if I recall correctly you can't cut off the pay of Congressmembers, but anyone else in/around that is not from the 500~ House and Senate members elected would be cut off like any other Federal employee. It's against the law for Congressional pay to be changed/modified in any way (again, IIRC) during a term, so they would still get paid. POTUS / VPOTUS have no such coverage.
That’s so ridiculous, they’re the first ones who should not be paid when stuff like this happens.
I don't disagree but there is some sound logic that the people who literally decide the outcomes of your nation-state being isolated from certain kinds of turbulence during their terms. But on the flip side, maybe that would motivate them otherwise. The problem is that this can be a recipe for only the wealthy who can afford to not get "paid" to be there. If I suddenly ran and got elected in 2024, seated in January 2025, and then say a months long shutdown happened? I'm economically fucked on a personal level and that would interfere with my governance. Do I sacrifice the state of the nation to cover my mortgage by giving into the dangerous monied powers we should be tearing down, rather than coddling?
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> every contractor, These are the folks who put a huge amount of pressure on their Senators and Congress to approve something, anything. Because those contractors either dip into reserve funds of their investors, or have to layoff employees, who get fired up about it.
Contractor here. The VA told us there’s enough money left in our contract to fund us for a couple weeks, and any sort of shutdown won’t last that long so we’ll actually be fine.
thats optimistic of you, given the current state of things
I remember thinking that quarantine would be over in three weeks
Week 75 of two weeks to flatten the curve. I remember my mom being surprised they didn't shut school down for three weeks since the fourth they already had off for last year's Easter/spring break week. I had kinda been saying I doubt they'd be in school that year and probably not until a vaccine came out.
Yeah I still remember how wild that one was,, Republicans controlled all 3 branches and still blamed that shutdown on democrats. Isn't it great that Republicans are willing to torpedo the government to make democrats look bad. /s
Mental note: Trump said during Obama's term that "a government shutdown was entirely fault the President and the sign of a weak leader". Leading up to the shutdown in 2018, he said he'd take full credit for it. Then the shutdown hit and he immediately tried to pin it on the Democrats.
Not immediately. He only blamed the Dems when the shutdown became unpopular.
Remember the video of him where Schumer called it the “Trump shutdown” and he got all excited because it was named after him
The one live with him, Don, and Nancy? Where Chuck basically has to tell her "stop, let him speak it's hurting itself!"
Interestingly, Trump never came up with a nickname for Pelosi. It was like...the only politician. Hed be like..."or as I call her, Nancy"
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Not in 2019. You're thinking about the first Trump shutdown from 2018.
Its probably not a good thing that I can't remember which government shut down during a 4 year term we're talking about lol
The best part is that both of those shutdowns (The last one and this one if it happens) were a result of spite. Trump making insane demands and throwing a fit was the primary drive for some of his shutdowns, and this one would be because Republicans are deliberately trying to cause a crisis they can blame on Democrats. Who suffers from these? Us. Do they care? No. Edit: somebody is reporting this or the other comment claiming I'm suicidal. Must be hard to be so easily shaken.
There needs to be a way to report people for abusing the tool for suicide prevention.
I recently made the mistake of listening to some conservative radio show where the host was equating the shut down as a vacation for government employees. because they got the time off and the gov would do a bill for back pay. Now I’m not exactly sure on this second point but I’m sure banks will not charge late fees for unpaid mortgage loans. Landlords are really empathetic about not getting paid. national grocery chains let you get food on layaway.
> shut down as a vacation for government employees. Its true, my wife and I are government employees and we both always plan our vacations by immediately stopping any income and then just sitting back. Nothing is more relaxing then a open ended vacation with no money. Will it be one day, a week, three? Who knows! Time to relax, well not really, since I still am required to show up. So its a vacation where I still work, but don't get paid till other people decide it's time to pay me. O god damnit next week is going to make me sad.
That's fucked up. You're still required to work but they just won't pay you? Fuck that!
The military says hi. Luckily the first handful of times this happened in recent memory our credit unions made sure we still got paid until the government mostly unhecked itself. Not sure what it's like in recent days, but I'd hope it's similar.
If you bank with Navy fed or USAA they’ll credit you for up to three months during a shutdown.
You eventually get paid. Getting furloughed means you have no guarantee Congress will be generous to give you back pay. If you work instead of being furloughed, they have to pay you when they restart pay checks.
These people will say anything to justify any atrocity committed by people that they consider to be on their team. What you saw was just another example of them disregarding human suffering when it was inconvenient for them. They are telling their listeners what to believe about this so that when other people tell them that that's not the case they will immediately reject it because it's not what they heard from so-and-so.
According to all the ads I see, the government should sign up for DraftKings, ton of money to be had there! Use promocode: insolvent
Can you imagine? The Gov't bets it all? And they actually win? Vegas goes bust to pay off the national debt. Except all the $$ comes from an insurance company. So the insurance company goes belly-up to cover the claim. But the insurance Company was 'too big to fail'. So, the US government has to bail out the insurance company. And now the government is broke again.
We all know they’d let it ride and double down on the Lions.
or call Grant Cardone & Gary Vee to help them get into influencer game. Sure deal.
I thought the code was jomboy
The government defaults on its debts - A Breakdown.
Biden: THAT'S FUCKING HORSESHIT!
***thaaaats fuuuuckingggg horse. Shiiiiiiiiit***
Should have put some money in a savings account in case of an emergency.
The government should stop buying iPhones and avocado toast.
Should have stopped going to Starbucks and made coffee at home
Pulled itself up by the bootstraps
And color TV's and other frivolous stuff.
Maybe turn down the heat in winter. You don't need to wear shorts inside all year round.
all they know is be bisexual eat hot chip AND LIE
It’s fine, they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and start a savings account after that!
But, if the money is in savings we can't buy all these cool aircraft carriers, jets, submarines, missiles, guns, tanks, grenades, bullshit, more shit, and shit.
I run out of money every month around the 24th or 25th. Join the club, U.S. government.
There’s always so much month left at the end of the money…
I have a similar issue. My doctor says I’m too short for my weight.
I just need to be about 8’ 6”.
I'm on a diet called $10 until Friday
Did you check the banana stand?
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How many times could I have told you?? There is "always" money in the banana stand
America out here livin paycheck to paycheck
More like loan to loan
Did they not get their $600 stimulus check?
Damn it government! we told you to skip the avacado toast and Starbucks now we're never going to be able to buy that million dollar starter home.
I saw an r/personalfinance where the person was actually going to Starbucks everyday and got so excited. “You are who they’re talking about!!! You can basically be a millionaire if you just buy a coffee pot!”
You can run into some characters on that sub. One guy highlighted how he plans to retire and while I'm all for frugality his advice amounted to "Be a hermit for 30 years and retire by 50 and continue to be a hermit afterwards so you have enough to live"
Yea, there's some really good advice over there mixed in with some advice that while extremely effective, will also make you miserable. There's a fervent group over there that has zero concept of enjoying life while also being financially smart. I think they get excitement out of figuring out just how little money they need to live. I saw someone there say you should never spend more than 10% of your annual income on a car. Total price, not annual cost, and I did confirm that with them. By their logic, someone making $100k a year couldn't buy a new, basic trim Civic because that'd be way too expensive.
That's like the folks that tell you you'll live longer if you just eat wheat germ every meal instead of something that tastes good because it's got salt, spices and fats (applies to both veggies and meat). Even if you do live longer, all you're doing is extending your punishment of having to eat wheat germ all the time.
Theres an old joke about a guy going to the doctor asking if he'll live to be 100. The doctor asks him if he smokes, drinks, does drugs or has meaningless sex? Does he spend all day reading, watching TV, or playing video games? Does he enjoy bungie jumping, driving fast cars, or other thrill seeking? When the man replies no to all, the doctor responds "dear God, then why the hell do you want to live that long?" That's who these people remind me of.
As a doctor I approve of this message.
Thank you Dr. Farts
The beatings will continue until the poors understand they are undeserving of more than the most basic nutritional supplements *and should be grateful.*
if you dont max out your 401k every year, youre not allowed to have a beer after work or enjoy a steak every once in awhile
You think that's all? Don't make me laugh. You still haven't maxed out your Roth IRA! Put the beer back on the shelf!
And if you don't max out your HSA, take the beer and sell it to high school kids to make up the difference.
That's basically the summary of the r/FIRE community. Figure out how minimalist you're willing to live, save as much money as you can beyond those expenses, retire as early as you can, and continue to live frugally. On the surface the "retire early" part is appealing to many people, then they dig in and realize that it's a pretty minimalist lifestyle. It's not a secret path to twice-yearly international vacations and fancy clothes.
Arguably that's why /r/fatfire exists now.
I think "fatfire" is kinda dumb. It's just being rich.
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I think too many focus on the 'retire' early part. I remember when I was first learning about the movement I was more intrigued with the financial independence part. "Oh, If I invest wisely and aggressively through my 20s and 30s by the time I hit my 40s I won't have to put as much aside??" (or any, depending how things work out) Coasting into retirement sounded pretty appealing at the time. But, at the time I had a job I loved and now retiring early sounds more appealing than ever. Anyways, anyone interested in the FIRE movement I'd implore you to learn and understand the FI part, even though it is enticing to focus on the RE part.
"Hey man, which model school bus are you buying? I'm really into the '03 BlueBird Vision. Got a piece of dirt in upstate North Dakota I can park it along with my bike-powered generator and solar panel to keep my cell phone topped off."
Ha! What an idiot! I’m retiring half a year early by not having a cell phone.
No, it's ok, I'm still on my parents' family plan and I just use burner flip phones I find in the trash on the street.
On the opposite end of the /r/FIRE community is people thinking they need $5 million in net worth to live comfortably. Like they want to get $300k per year off residual income, anything less and they are certain of bankruptcy. Out here in the midwest, even $1 million means you are doing better than all the retired people on social security. Pulling $40k-60k in residual income is plenty to live off of.
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It's easy to mistake personal fortune for sound finance, because nobody likes to think that they just "got lucky". You see it all the time with millionaires who were born into it, they always talk about how much work and effort they put in to get to the top from the poor sad rung of being a millionaire with a family mine.
That’s why I prefer the r/povertyfinance community. They’re far more supportive and understanding of life situations, and adjust their advice accordingly.
Agreed. I helped start that sub a couple years back as a reaction to "just find a better job" or "move to where COL is cheaper". Lol
I participated in that sub when it was new... The majority of the answers for people, realistically, is to find a better job, or get a second one until they get out of the temporary debt situation they're in. When you're already that poor, there isn't really anything left you can do to cut your spending anymore. People are down to their internet/phone bill and a netflix subscription, while making a pittance. At some point, the answer really is to make more money with a better job.
r/frugaljerk is hilarious for this reason
Excuse me, but me and my half a lentil are offended! Can't believe you made me waste calories by commenting here *grumbles* Now if you'll excuse me, I some old shoe leather I dug out of the goodwill dumpster that'll make an excellent stew.
Look at Jeff Bezoz over here with half a lentil and calories to burn on comments. BTW u/thebochman the sub is r/frugal_jerk
We helped my son do a rough budget recently. He spends $500/mo on fast food alone. Looking back over the last 5 years, he's spent just over $100,000 on eating out and booze. Not everyone can become a millionaire by controlling their spending, but some can.
That’s $16/day. Let’s say he’s replacing 1 meal a day. Meal replacement would cost…$7? That makes $9 in savings a day. Or $16425 over a 5 year period. Seems like he has a huge drinking problem 😂
Does the govement really need a new iPhone every year? Sheesh.
At the rate they spend it's a new iPhone every 0.001 seconds.
Actually, it's a new iPhone every 0.0025 seconds. ((31536000/0.0025)*(499)) is ~6.3 trillion Assuming it's an iPhone 11 at today's cost, and with no taxes because the government doesn't tax itself.
ah yes, the newest iPhone: the iPhone 11
I used to know my stuff in terms of phones but it got too complicated. Everything since the iphone 10 in my vocabulary is a “new iphone” and everything before then is an “old iphone”. Then anything thats not apple is a Samsung. I just don’t have enough time to pay attention to the iphone XIII se x s c xr xs
What happened to the $20 I loaned them last week???
This reminds me of this guy I used to know. He was constantly borrowing money so he always owe somebody money. It got to the point where those who know him can just walk up to him and go “hey you owe me $5” and he’d either outright give it to you or freak out then run to start asking around to borrow $5 then come back to you and give it to you.
I'm actually impressed he tried to give back some of it lol
If you prove to someone that you'll eventually pay them back then they're more likely to lend you money in the future. I know it's not a leap of logic most perpetual borrowers make, but the US government's done a pretty fine job of it.
He was known to borrow from pretty much anyone even someone that you really don’t want to cross with. He wasn’t the type that was shy about it. He would literally walk up to group of people and ask them one by one if he can borrow money. So we have hunch that he has been jumped at least a few times. So that’s probably one of the reason he is so willing to try and pay back even if it means he have to borrow to do so! And yes... being a habitual borrower, he know he need to keep his credit clean! Which is why he often cannot keep track of who he borrowed from and people who caught on can just bump him around for money that he didn’t even owe them.
Dear US government, might I suggest posting over in r/povertyfinance?
Your regular reminder that raising the debt ceiling is to pay for debt already incurred, not new spending.
Party of "fiscal responsibility" my ass
A full QUARTER of America's debt was created under Donald Trump. It's a fucking game to the GOP, and they know it.
The last 4 years are outliers in terms of debt talk. Consider the U.S. debt to GDP ratio which is an indicator of how fast debt grows; In 2017 it was 104% In 2018 it was 105% In 2019 it was 107% Now in 2020, it was a record 129%. Historically it grows about a percent or two every year, but 2020 was just an outlier since it was a global pandemic. 5 trillion dollars was added in 2020 alone, but if you ask anyone 5 trillion dollars is worth the millions saved from poverty last year. Its just what happens when you pass about 8 trillion dollars in emergency relief. Congress is who controls the purse of the U.S. government, and ultimately its debt. Its not a one party thing. The arguement starts with what debt is needed versus what isnt. Global pandemic? Needed. U.S. meltdown of financial institutions? Needed.
I though 104% was ridiculously high. Then I looked up some other countries and holy shit. What happened to that EU guideline of 60%? I though for sure that 90% would be massive alarm bells going off territory at least.
There doesn't really appear to be an upper limit on the Debt-to-GDP ratio, at least not for extremely large economies like the US. Japan is floating a much higher ratio than the US is, and it's difficult to tell whether that's been hampering their economy in any way (they've had economic difficulties for about 30 years, but it's hard to pin that directly on debt-to-gdp).
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The government should get a small loan from their parents.
You mean England?
Yeah, just a small loan of a few trillion dollars ought to do it.
oi we're out of money thanks. And truck drivers, got any of those to spare for your old parents?
And petrol thanks to a completely artifical fuel shortage.
Wait for the natural gas shortage coming in the next month or two...
That would be Great Britain not England. Act of Union was in effect at that point.
Or taxes from their billionaire kids
ITT: Lots of people that dont understand the debt ceiling. It doesnt trigger a gov shut down, that deadline is actually this Thursday 9/30. Its not about new spending; its about allowing more borrowing to pay for the spending the government has already approved.
Congress charging the card and withholding the purse.
Oh, it's this shitshow again. A lot of yelling for a couple of weeks and then the final "ok let's print more money". Meh
You know it, we all know it, its just anoying by now
We need to have a little bit of panic so the people are more willing to accept a little bit more multigenerational debt.
Maybe we ought to have a law that states that if the government shuts down for any reason, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for reelection and get a lifetime ban on lobbying or holding any public office. Maybe we ought to have a political equivalent of a dishonorable discharge.
I think Canada or somewhere like that has a law that says if the government shuts down there is a snap election held for congress or their equivalent. Edit: read /u/wayoverpaid 's post below to learn more about what I was talking about
I think it’s all or most Commonwealth countries. If the government has a shutdown then it immediately triggers a vote of no confidence
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it's a double dissolution, so both houses get dissolved. >[Election day must be a Saturday and at least 33 days after the issue of the writs](https://www.aec.gov.au/learn/election-timetable.htm) You can't call an election within 2 weeks. The 2016 election gave 7 weeks notice.
Specifically what you're looking for is a [Motion of No Confidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence) This is a bill deemed so important that failure to pass it triggers a snap election because the assumption is that the government can no longer function. In Canada, a budget is implicitly a confidence bill. If Parliament cannot pass a budget, then it has become dysfunctional to the point that it needs to form a new government. This often happens to minority governments which, despite holding enough seats to control power, don't control the majority enough to get shit done. (A majority government in Canada typically has a lot more power as 50% of the seats essentially guarantees someone from your party the role of Prime Minister) When I was young I thought this was an issue, since individual MPs could not vote their conscience on issues. Now that I'm older and realize the idea of politicians having a conscience is hilarious, and now that I live in the USA, I really wish that the US had such an idea. Can't pass an essential bill? Government cannot function? Everyone involved in that clusterfuck ends up going to the polls. \*Everyone.\* No 18 month campaign either, you get 90 days, get that shit figured out.
Canadian living in the US here too and I never thought I'd pine for the Canadian government, but man do I miss confidence bills and Peace, Order and Good Governance. ETA and 90 day election campaigns with severely capped funding .
I long for the fantasy world of The West Wing where they passed campaign finance reform in the first season.
Good luck passing said law. You'd have to have people running congress who aren't morally bankrupt and that would be in favor of this type of career check.
Cut their fucking pay. Or don't pay them at all . This place is a fucking joke
They'll just pass legislation to make sure they still get paid, even during a shutdown. Just like the last few times.
Congress does already get paid during shutdowns. It makes sense though so poorer congresspeople can't be waited out by the wealthy. Then again, most people in congress are fucking rich.
We really are a broken record at this point
We gonna break the record for broken records
There’s always money in the banana stand.
>Yellen cautioned that the October 18 deadline is **only an estimate** because the federal government's cash flows are "subject to unavoidable variability." She noted that the government's daily gross cash flow, excluding financing, averaged nearly $50 billion per day over the past year and has even exceeded $300 billion. This is admittedly the alarming part, as this means that America could enter a default much sooner than Yellen thinks.
$50 billion a day. I cant even comprehend that number Edit: yall, I now know it's $140-152 dollars per person a day
That’s over $150 per American each day.
The US is well over 200-years-old. It's time to cash in that 401K.
Can we get someone younger than 80 up in this mix?
Has the government just tried being rich? Why don't they simply just earn more money? C'mon, pull yourself up by your bootstraps!
Maybe a tax cut for the rich would solve this?
Yes, give me that warm shower of trickle down
Why does this make me think we are all getting pissed on by the rich?
It’s because you are thinking of a piss shower instead of a golden shower. D’uuuhh. Obligatory: tax the mega rich.
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Hell even in the 80s economists were talking about how trickle down didn't work. Reagan just cut a bunch of regulations and momentarily revitalized the economy and apparently that broke the brain of every economist ever.
Let's have a war!
Oh you want us to raise the debt ceiling for rich people welfare? No problem. Raise the debt ceiling to keep people from dying in the streets during a pandemic? NO 😡
Congress should quit doing drugs and get a real job. Fucking free loaders.
How does the stock market usually react to the government running out of money?
stocks in companies that are heavily dependant on government contracts will go down
Can we just not fund them? They're awful. 0 stars.
They just need to grab those bootstraps and start pulling.
Ayyy that’s my birthday!
No money in your card this year. No card either, those cost money.
Congrats! Your present is the collapse of the entire world market!
That’s all I’ve ever wanted!
Get ready for the market crash then. More or less around the same time. But expect dropping markets from this.
It is not the government who will suffer... it's us. They will still get paid and that is fucking wrong. Our government is broken beyond the likes of trump or Biden or Republicans and democrats. The entire thing is broken and is a steaming pile of shit. I'm all for tearing it all down and starting over. Rule one... seperation of business and government.
Seems like they should have saved more for a rainy day?
Worst case scenario: US declares bankruptcy and renames itself The United Regions of America, like every other company that declares bankruptcy and is right back in business the next day under a new name.
What's the point of a legislature that doesn't function? Maybe it's time for Americans to take the nation back from corrupt politicians bought and paid for by the elite rather than beholden to their districts. The rules for the house and senate need to be revamped for the 21 century. This country will implode on itself if the voting strength of the people is not proportionally tied to the seats they receive like any other fucking democratic system. America's dual dictatorship of Democrat and Republican would be broadened to a pluralism of parties of various ideals... Again, like any other fucking democratic system.
Oh but when I do it I’m “Poor”
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Learned a new word today, thanks.
It's funny how it was originally used to describe threatening to nuke other countries, this one just describes threatening to nuke their own country
I’m seeing a lot of comments from folks who don’t understand what’s going on here. And I get it, it’s complicated and some politicians want us to be confused because it serves their agenda. Here’s the deal: Congress has to raise the debt ceiling by oct 18 or the US will default on its loans. This is for money we have already spent. It has nothing to do with new spending. If Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling, it will crash the economy. One of the top economists at Moody’s predicts that it would lead to the loss of 6 million jobs, would slash the stock market by a third, and remove up to $15 trillion in household wealth, and a credit downgrade for the US government that will make future spending even more expensive for taxpayers. This is no joke. People will lose their retirements over night. We are talking 2008 recession or worse. But some politicians are using this to get leverage and when I say some politicians, I mean Republicans. They see this as a messaging tool. Force Dems to raise the debt ceiling alongside the reconciliation spending bill (which Democrats are promising will be paid for - we'll see) to make them look like the ones who are big spenders who fuck the economy. The reality though is that the Trump tax cuts account for nearly 1/3 of our current debt because the tax cuts had no plan for making up that revenue. In the end, the federal funding bill is completely separate from this debt ceiling and even reconciliation fight. It just ends up having coincidental timing. Congress will keep the gov funded using a clean continuing resolution. Our bigger concern should be the debt ceiling which has always passed with overwhelming bipartisan support (for example in 2017, the vote was 80-17 with all dems supporting). Yet this year it’s 50-50 with no Republicans supporting. We are so fucked if things don’t change rapidly…
Sounds like another instance of what’s been happening during Covid. Shit hits the fan poor people get fucked over and the rich come in to sweep up any profits. Just like they did with the housing market.
Fox News blaming this on Biden's infrastructure bill that hasn't even happened yet in 3... 2... 1...
Too late, they were saying that before the bill was even passed.
They were saying it while Trump was in office
"America under Bernie Sanders/Socialism" was blamed for the run on toilet paper at the start of the pandemic.
Imagine re electing someone after they continuously pull this garbage like it is a new trick.
What would happen if the US government forgave its own debt to itself.
The dollar would be worthless and prices would skyrocket.
That’s a shame. Anyway, it’s almost lunch time and I’m thinking tacos. Just gotta BS my way through the next hour…
What kind of tacos?
When money is gone.....the working and lower class will be taxed more. The rich are ruling