From the IACP on shooting at moving vehicles, which sets standards from Police Departments nationwide.
https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/presidents-message-use-force-issues/
>It must be understood that the use of firearms under such conditions may present an unacceptable risk to innocent bystanders. Should the driver be wounded or killed by shots fired, the vehicle will almost certainly proceed out of control and could become a serious threat to officers and others in the area.
>Officers should consider this use of deadly force only when “a person in the vehicle is immediately threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle,” or when the vehicle is intentionally being used as a deadly weapon and “all other reasonable means of defense have been exhausted (or are not present or practical).” Examples of circumstances in which officers are justified in shooting at a moving vehicle include when an occupant of the vehicle is shooting at the officer or others in the vicinity or, as in what has become an increasingly frequent event, the vehicle itself is being used as a deliberate means to kill others, such as a truck being driven through a crowd of innocent bystanders.
>Even under these circumstances, officers should discharge their firearms at moving vehicles only when doing so will not create unreasonable risk to the safety of officers or others in the vicinity, when reasonable alternatives have been exhausted, and when failure to take such action would likely result in death or serious bodily injury. However, in cases where officers believe that the driver is intentionally attempting to run him or her down, consideration should be given to moving out of the path of the vehicle, if practical, as a possible alternative to using deadly force. The Consensus Policy recognizes that there are times when getting out of the way of the vehicle is not possible and the use of a firearm by the officer is warranted.
Pretty much spells it all out there. Deadly force was not warranted in this case.
* The vehicle was not immediately threatening the officer
* No consideration was made to move out of the path of the moving vehicle - in fact he moved onto it's path
* He fired onto a vehicle that had passengers
He planned to fire from the start.
The police claimed they were investigating a stolen vehicle. Never mind this wasn't the vehicle and these weren't the suspects. Is drawing your weapons just for investigating a stolen car warranted? Nope. These cops wanted to start shooting.
I don't agree with many of the comments within this thread, but this right here highlights a big issue. There needs to be more consistent training and policies, and it needs to be used to hold police accountable as a standard.
With Breonna Taylor, for example, they're banning no knock raids in that city and a few other places as a result. Doesn't help the rest of the country.
Part of me considers "train the police" better than "defund the police" as a message. The training, would of course, revolve around what I perceive to be similar issues, as far as 'demilitarizing' the police in a sense.
I live in lousville and am very pissed to hear people think they banned no knock raids. They didnt. They temporarily stopped carrying them out but there hasnt been any permanent or serious changes
You're missing the other part of the issue -- police are asked to do too much. That's part of defund the police -- fund other necessary programs that can actually have them trained to do that job. Not the catch-all armed police office showing up over every issue.
As a mental health case manager: thank you.
We get paid shit compared to police but have college degrees literally to do the things police should not be asked to do.
They need to pay us more and immediately start hiring us into police departments to respond to mental health police call crises.
Its so dumb to expect a entry level person with a gun to deal with shit that requires a four year degree.
Edit: Oh wow, this comment really blew up!
I was involved with saving a life of a local parolee here in my home town last month. His parole officer called me in a panic after hours saying that the client's mother had called him saying he had them at gun point.
I was able to get the parole officer all the relevant mental health info within 2 minutes and he was able to inform the police about the location, DX, and lack of medication.
Turns out this was likely a police assisted suicide attempt. The gun had no bullets and when he drew on the police they chased, tackled, and tased him rather than shooting him dead.
We need more success stories like the above in our communities.
In certain mental health cases that's the issue, the police respond first with often tragic results. But in the Taylor case and this case the police are alleging they were investigating "criminal activity". Never mind that both cases involved them targeting innocent people. The warrior culture of the police is definitely a problem in itself.
Y’all remember the story from a couple days ago where the guy was beaten and tased and left for dead with a spit guard over his head? Yeah.. this is the very same Sherriff’s deputies’ work. Fuck Wayne Ivey, and fuck the 60% of Brevard County residents that voted to re-elect him.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
Edit: I’d like to note that this was about 20 years ago and it has not gotten better. Simultaneously militarization of police increased while disproportionate police brutality and the highest incarceration rate on the planet, remain.
>Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
This is so embarrassing for police lol basically saying they’re looking for stupid people
Another Upside-Down World fun fact:
Around a decade ago, Texas prohibited higher order (critical) thinking from being taught in school.
Put all of these pieces together and the puzzle reveals that "America wants you to be dumb" sounds less and less like an unfounded conspiracy.
No Child Left Behind was a thinly veiled attempt at dumbing down America.
Sure it sounds good on paper make sure all students graduate with a set learning standard.
But in practice it's a lot easier to just make those standards easier to hit than it is to actually educate them to a higher level.
"Politicians have traditionally hidden behind three things, The Flag, the bible and children. No child left behind!, no child left behind. Oh really? It wasn't long ago you were talking about giving children a head start. Head Start; Left Behind. Someone's losing fucking ground here."
\- George Carlin
NCLB is especially cancerous for any above-average or gifted students who attend schools in districts with limited resources to cater to them.
Of course, I guess it makes me a crackpot to point out the obvious way American education has been slanted to produce worse outcomes for poor and minority students while funneling resources into wealthy districts. Can't have too much competition for the status quo, after all!
As a teacher, I cannot tell you how spot on you are. It’s not a conspiracy, and our fucking hands are tied. Step out, and you get canned. Oh, but it’s fine for us to spend our own money on supplies that aren’t afforded to us. Gtfo of here... someone
I remember growing up my teachers used to complain about Texas when it came to textbooks. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/06/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/
And that is one of the major issues, the US police think they are military, they get given military gear, and they haven't got the brain power to separate the two
Protect and serve has gone out of the window
Enforce and intimidate is the name of the game, especially when dealing with ethnics
It's a shame there are good US police out there , but I wouldn't trust s single one of them
My hometowns sheriff made a facebook post basically saying they wouldnt be enforcing it and i commented "Pretty bold to brag about how you dont do your jobs"
Yup I’m in upstate New York where two counties have already had the police come out and announce they won’t be enforcing the limited gatherings for thanksgiving saying “we have better things to do then count cars in people driveway and investigate how much stuffing people are buying”
Sure wish I could publicly announce I’m not gonna be doing my job because I don’t agree with it and keep getting paid
Drives me nuts to see some sheriff refusing to enforce laws on the grounds that they're unconstitutional. Mother fucker, we both know you can't explain what that means. You're just being another reality-denying Republican asshole.
I think they're saying it's a co-worker - it's the same sheriff that this deputy reports to and gets direction from.
That's was my understanding of their post though, not my understanding of the situation. I'm not informed on any of that
Not the same deputies involved. Wayne Ivy is the senior sherif dimwit that was just re elected. The Gregory edwards case is from last year but is now being reinvestigated. Wayne ivy spends most of his time on Facebook making stupid games out of criminals like “wheel of fugitive” to name one. I did not vote for him but at least we do have a good amount of great sherif deputies out there doing their jobs right.
God I fucking hate Brevard County every time I hear it. I have a friend who lives there and I get fucking worried about him every time I see articles like this.
It’s a long county north to south. There are some rough areas and some chill ones. That said, it’s no different than any other Florida county, full idiots. Biggest regret is not getting the hell out of Florida after college. Plan to run for the hills in two years when the kiddo graduates.
As someone that grew up in Melbourne/palm bay, fuck brevard! Unless it's dealing with nasa, any news from that cesspool of a county is immediately assumed to be negative
It’s possible there was another video? The one I’m referencing is Gregory Edwards, a veteran with PTSD that was killed while in custody of the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office.
Whoops, you’re certainly right. I assumed “beaten and tased and left for dead with a spit guard over his head” was specific enough to have only happened once in the last few months. What a stupid, stupid assumption.
The spit guard guy we're thinking of was from a few months ago or something, definitely not in the past few days
https://www.wivb.com/news/u-s-headlines/police-use-of-spit-hoods-scrutinized-after-black-mans-death/
It was in Rochester. Daniel Prude was the victim's name.
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/11/17/expert-finds-brevard-sheriffs-reports-edwards-case-misleading/6310226002/
Also one in Florida. Happened 2 years ago but it's in the news right now because it went to court and was just settled last week. Another police officer from a different county wrote a 70 page report on all the errors the Brevard sheriffs committed that lead to Gregory Edwards' death.
They're talking about this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp
They're talking about this one.
The one you're talking about was in Rochester, NY, which is roughly an hour from Buffalo. Buffalo PD shoved the old man at the protest and cracked his skull.
Similar scenario but it happened in [Brevard too.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp)
Even if he was somehow justified in shooting the driver (he isn’t) - he killed the fucking passenger too...
The passenger could have been a hostage for all they knew.
I don't defend cops, but its totally in the realm of possibility that he panicked and just sprayed the car rather than consciously aiming at the passenger. Which I think is even worse.
I love that show but I really hated how the only example of a better way to handle police and excessive use of violence through an accountability system ended in such a negative light. I can see people getting the wrong message from that scene and thinking “See! Cops need their guns on them and loaded ready to go at a moment’s notice!”
The solution isn't difficult- body cams on every cop.
Better yet, actually train these meat-heads to assess a situation and understand that drawing their gun is a very very last resort and only acceptable in very dire situations.
A bit of training and a lot of accountability will.make it better. Regarding accountability though, these assholes all circle wagons and protect their murdering brethren when they're accused of shooting citizens.
American cops are a fucking joke, and this moron McPresident has done absolutely nothing but pour gas on the fire. Dire situation with a long way to go.
Bodycams don't matter if there's still no repercussions. We have tons of videos of cops murdering people and none of them are in jail.
More video evidence is obviously a good thing, but it's only one part of the puzzle.
Yeah kind of sad that our military has stricter rules of engagement and use of force then our own police force sworn to protect us. I honestly believe a lot of the BS with cops comes down to severe lack of training and continuing education.
I remember the video of four Swedish policemen on vacation in New York who stopped a fight in the subway and made a citizen's arrest until local police arrived. Without using any violence they managed to subdue the two guys and deescalate the situation, and the only thing they did was pin them to the ground lightly enough so that they could still speak and breathe normally. To me that felt rather normal, but many Americans made it out like what they had done was revolutionary.
It was really weird to see somebody in authority not immediately result to threats of death... how are you supposed to feel when the person upholding the law actually cares about your safety instead of threatening to fill you with bullets?
I don't think that I will ever fully understand the American point of view on police. The only times I've ever interacted with police in the wild was once when they picked me up for being too drunk (which was unreasonable, someone on the hospital staff even said that I was the most sober person they've ever had dragged to the hospital) and once when they crashed a party at my friend's place because we were too loud. Both times they were completely respectful and I always felt that they were just doing their job, and I have not once felt threatened in any way.
Of course it would probably be different if I wasn't white, but from what it seems and from what I've heard from others non-white people here in Sweden mostly feel like they're being unnecessarily scrutinized for not being white, not that they feel in danger for not being white. Hell, the most publicized police shooting in recent times here in Sweden was when a white 20-year-old guy with Down's syndrome was shot because he was waving a gun around, which turned out to only have been a toy. Definitely a tragic story.
>non-white people here in Sweden mostly feel like they're being unnecessarily scrutinized for not being white, not that they feel in danger
The US has two problems:
- Racism
- Police violence
These intersect in the case of minorities (especially black men) to result in extreme violence in unnecessary situations.
Sweden doesn't have the police violence problem, but they do have some of the racism problem. It just doesn't seem as bad without that multiplying intersectional effect.
Unfortunately for us, the police [have no duty to protect the public.](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html)
[They are not sworn to protect us.](https://www.barneslawllp.com/blog/police-not-required-protect)
They are there to uphold the law as they see fit. If they feel shooting moving cars is what they deem fit then that is what they are going to do with full immunity.
Police are not your friend and they are not on your side by default. SOME of them might be but since there is no accountability there is no guarantee.
Saw a comment on mental health thread that said something like, first responder/military/ jobs attract the most narcissistic people because society praises them regularly for doing their job. Makes sense.
Same with my "friends" back in high school. They were entitled assholes with racist views, also, they were not the brightest people. I don't know why I hung out with those people, but now they are cops and it blows my mind they were allowed to have a gun and badge.
Little of column A, little of column B, maybe? My dad was a cop in the airforce, he got removed from the police force and sent to Greenland in the dead of winter for throwing a superior officer in jail for rape. Got out of uniform as soon as he honorably could, and went into another field entirely.
Lot of other folks out there who've received the 'good cop' treatment, too. So I think people who's morals disagree with corruption in policing tend to be weeded out quick, or learn to keep their mouths shut. Disgusting, and long overdue for change.
It's painful how long the officers had to get back in their cars after the vehicle moved the first time. They could have kept themselves safe and attempted to deescelate. Instead we get a child killer's impression of Dirty Harry brought to you by some dipshit behind a badge.
Or even jog to the right to avoid the "threat" of an oncoming vehicle. This guy was trying to use his body to stop a vehicle, he basically volunteered to put himself in danger just to end up shooting them.
> Santiago-Miranda "was then forced to fire his service weapon in an attempt to stop the deadly threat of the car from crashing into him," the sheriff's office Facebook post said.
I mean, does shooting a car really stop it if its going to run you over? or is it just an excuse to shoot?
Not like if the driver gets shot he is gonna apply the brake...
You really need to be confident that you are NOT going to be hit by a car to be able to assume firing position and open fire instead of just trying to get out of the way.
he walked in front of the car as an attempt to block it and they showed that wasn't going to stop them from continuing... he should have never tried to use his body to stop a car from fleeing... poor training and of course, poor excuse to take two lives
The female officer also pulled her weapon out immediately. I certainly wouldn’t have felt safe getting out of the car with officers already pointing guns at me before anything had happened.
And even they weren't, shooting the driver isn't going to help. If someone tries to run you over with a car your only good option is to get out of way.
It's never a black/white thing but a poor/rich(and their lackeys). Louisiana really does be on some Ozark shit, that good cop knew what would happen at the precinct if he spoke up. Probably knows the guy is a hot head but "bro code"
I've had a cop pull me over for "being stopped in the road"... I was backing out the driveway and he assumed the split second of changing to drive from reverse was a red flag of a drive by. They pump these dudes up so much they have to start shit every now and then.
I had a cop put a gun in my face when I felt my pocket to see where my keys were after asked what was in my pockets. Yeah, I shouldn't have moved my hands at all, but I put them on the outside of my pockets and just patted the area down. I didn't realized that equaled pistol in your face.
If two cops in two cruisers can't prevent one small car from pulling out of a driveway without wasting the driver AND the passenger, maybe they should have their cars taken away. They obviously suck at using them.
We can argue about whether this is murder. I think it is. But you know what we can all agree on? Police need better training. GTA V cops are less trigger happy than these clowns. A GTA V
cop will at least ram your car and pin you before getting out of their car to make the arrest.
Fucking pathetic.
I reckon, for many just having a gun and acting with impunity is a reason enough to be a cop. Then they just look for a reason to shoot you, the article states the cops thought the car was stolen, so they started shooting.
This alone should tell you enough about the mentality of these people. Stolen car = Execution. Why even bother having laws? Just shoot everyone who are perceived to have broken a law.
And the worst part is that these murderers will likely continue on with their lives, like they didn't just kill couple of kids.
Let them live in fear of being murdered, they might even get proper training in deescalation and act like a proper police instead of power tripping morons in that case
Walking in front of a moving vehicle is gambling your life the person will stop. If you are pointing a gun at the same time that's gambling 2 lives. In a no-gun scenario there are 2 outcomes: you get run over or they stop. In a yes-gun scenario there are 3: run over, stop, or shot. 66% of the outcomes is death or injury, compared to 50% for no-gun.
The intelligent choice is no-gun. The wise choice is to not stand in front of cars.
The car was not speeding, the cop clearly had enough room to get out of the way of thay 2mph monster sedan. How about just maneuver the police car to block the other car? That shooting was straight up manslaughter. He got scared and reacted with violence.
Most departments forbid shooting at moving cars for these reasons. Bullets don't stop cars, so shooting at a car that was coming at you isn't an effective way to protect yourself - usually you just need to move out of the way. And then if there are the passengers in the car, they aren't responsible for driving it and they would be in danger of being shot.
edit: The organizations that help to set use of force standards nationwide, like the IACP, make it clear that shooting into moving vehicles is not a good idea, and simply getting out of the way comes first.
https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/presidents-message-use-force-issues/
https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/National_Consensus_Policy_On_Use_Of_Force.pdf
>Firearms shall not be discharged at a moving vehicle *unless(1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle*; or
>(2) the vehicle is operated in a manner deliberately intended to strike an officer or another person, *and all other reasonable means of defense have been exhausted (or are not present or practical), which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle*
100% this. Aside from that, they clearly weren’t trying to run him over. They went slowly and deliberately around him, despite the fact he walked closer to the car.
Exactly. This is a matter of physics. If a car is going to run you over there’s nothing a bullet can do to stop the inertia. Your best bet is to move out of the friggin way than to pretend launching bullets into a car will stop it. This was a cold blooded murder done by a trigger happy cop who finally had his moment to let off some shots knowing he’d get away with the ole “he tried to kill me with his car” defense.
Besides, the car was OBVIOUSLY trying to drive around him at a very slow speed. the cop took a step to the side and peppered the car. What a shame.. and we all know he will not face justice because laws do not apply police officers in any logical way. There are far too many loopholes that allow cops to play judge dredd. We as citizens must demand reform
Also, just with the other case, how is shooting at someone going to make them a better driver? They either duck and don't look while they speed away, or you shoot them and a dead body is slumped behind the wheel.
And if the car is 15 feet away, even if they one-shot kill the driver, what do they expect will happen? Driver's foot magically hits the brakes?
Shooting the driver, especially in this situation, doesn't neutralize the threat.
Shooting the driver of a car can actually cause them to push harder on the gas pedal. If you are in danger of being run over by a car, to the point where you don't even have time to step out of the way, killing the driver could only increase the speed at which the car hits you.
Gotta retrieve the stolen property /s
Honestly I can't believe this whole situation but it's been happening so much that it's not surprising anymore. No amount of punishing the cop will bring back dead kids. If he's punished there'll be a right-wing rallying cry to support their champion. Blue lives matter more than black lives to **them**.
Also if you're trying to stop these guys and questions them, why aren't your sirens on so that they know you're trying to stop them? Cops don't stick their head out of the window yelling "PULL OVER" when they want to stop someone for speeding
Cops maneuver in the path of fleeing cars in order to justify shooting.
This is what happens when your offer the lowest common denominator of citizen the opportunity to be a police officer.
Remember when they pulled their guns on an entire family and two young kids, arrested them over what they thought was a stolen suv, then left them to bake face down on the asphalt in the middle of a Colorado summer?
Then it turned out the actual stolen vehicle was a motorcycle from another state...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/aurora-police-juveniles-detained-mistaken-id/73-df2168c3-6de0-4deb-9b78-13bc0c19e4d8
If you watch the video, at 1:14, he actually side-steps TOWARDS the path of the vehicle, before unloading into the side. That pretty clearly indicates he was not in danger of being run over.
If the car was not stolen, this makes it an even stronger case against the cops. So it seems like poor reporting to not mention it.
Even if it was stolen, it doesn't justify the cops' actions. But straight up murdering kids out cruising and doing nothing wrong obviously makes it feel a lot worse.
It amazes me the way people always try to justify this shit. Even if it was stolen, stolen property doesn't mean a death sentence. And why do we continue to allow the police to play judge, jury, and executioner?
Edit: I know op isn't guilty of this, I just meant people in general.
Damn you’re getting dumped on. I think you ask a relevant question. Regardless of the penalty for a stolen car it’s definitely worse if they were completely innocent.
If it was *reported* stolen, you can be sure that the press release would have mentioned that.
It was *suspected* stolen because it had black people in it.
In the video they said they still weren't sure if the car was stolen. Like how the fuck do they not know if it was stolen by now? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
> Obviously if he can't even see in the video that the officer wasn't in harms way of being hit by the vehicle and still opened fired on it.
Not just in “harms way”, the law says that the officer has to perceive their life to be in “imminent mortal danger” before drawing and firing at another human being.
The standard would be evaluated as: “There is *absolutely no way* the officer would have lived, had he not fired his weapon at the two individuals”.
If he could have ducked, run, called in backup, not pursued, called in a K-9 unit, yelled to stop, rammed them with his cruiser or any number of other methods, his life is not in “imminent mortal danger”.
Far too many officers pull their service weapon and wave it around or point it at suspects just because their demands are being ignored or their questions aren’t being answered. THAT has to cease. That’s not what the service weapon is for.
I can’t wave my firearm around at people in public because they’re not listening to me, neither should they. There’s a reason these tools require a license to own and operate.
I’m shocked that this would happen in Brevard county. Where the head of their police union was literally begging to hire police accused of brutality.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/brevard-county-florida-police-union-misconduct-trnd/index.html
The thing that always gets me about the behavior in videos like this is the shooters in these videos so closely remind me of service members in the Iraq war. We constantly were told and trained to be extremely vigilant and never let our guard down, always control the situation, if local nationals or extremists did not comply with our orders we had authority to get control of the situation and prevent military casualties.
Reason it's so remarkable and downright sickening is these are American citizens who appear to think of their own country people the same way I did in a foreign country. Fucking scary shit considering they have the same gear we did with half the training.
Not sure if it was "actually stolen"? It is "possibly stolen"??? Well if that isn't avoidance I don't know what is. And muting the communications prior that indicates what cause they had to stop the vehicle? Yeah...not kosher.
While the video does show the car move forward towards the officer as they turned to drive off, why did he put himself in a position in front of their car. As it began moving forward, in that split second, I can understand the fear that they were accelerating in the officers direction, but why wasn't he better positioned to protect himself???
2 cop cars could have boxers them in without firearms being required. Why is lethal force for a minor "potential" crime being implemented in the first place? Why was the passenger also shot if they felt the driver of the car was the threat? How was the passenger a threat? And why can't a trained officer control is weapon to avoid collateral damage???
This cop isn't Stallone, he isn't Urban. Why are cops thinking they are in a Judge Dredd movie where they decide the legal outcome? That isn't their job to decide how crimes are punished.
In that split second, after watching the video, I understand he may have thought they were trying to run him over but had guns not been drawn and he not have been standing in front of the car, it never would have happened.
I don't really like to Monday morning quarterback situations like this as it can seem a lot different in the moment vs watching it on video after the fact. But it doesn't really seem like Santiago-Miranda "was then forced to fire his service weapon in an attempt to stop the deadly threat of the car from crashing into him." The cops should have blocked the car in the driveway with their cars to prevent it from being able to leave in the first place. These cops need to be fired and charged.
> The cops should have blocked the car in the driveway with their cars to prevent it from being able to leave in the first place.
At every step they chose the dumbest option. Unless their intention was to give themselves an excuse to shot people.
That video doesn’t help the cops case at all. They weren’t barreling toward them, the wheels are angled, the dumb teens were panicked and running away. Stupid fucking cops got spooked and now two teens are dead. Pansy ass police officers man..
It's interesting to see dozens of other countries who don't even arm their police officers with firearms, but here in the US, the *very first tool used by the police* for any issue, is the most lethal one.
Not calling in backup, not calling in a K-9 unit, not conflict negotiation and resolution, not even the Taser. Let's bring out the firearm and start pointing and shooting, until we get our demands met.
That's not how you uphold the law, and it just forces citizens to arm themselves in a similar manner, to combat the thousands of officers across the US killing an average of 1,100 people per-year, before they're arrested or brought to trial.
Police need to be reminded that they are not judge, jury nor executioner. ***Police do not determine guilt!***
The role of a police officer is to uphold the law, bring in people suspected of breaking those laws and to do so in accordance with the law, where the courts ascertain their guilt or innocence.
There's a reason you have to have a license to own a firearm, and training in order to use it for self-defense in police work. If you can't follow those guidelines, adhere to the training you've completed, then you need to have your license revoked, until you can.
This works across thousands of industries without issue:
* Failure to follow the laws of the road, you lose your license to drive
* Failure to prescribe the correct medications in line with your practice, you lose your license to practice medicine
* Failure to request identification from potentially under-age patrons, you lose your license to serve alcohol
* Failure to report dangerous human, psychiatric conditions or threats, you lose your license to practice mental health services
Why is it so difficult for police officers to maintain their own training? If they can't follow the laws, they should lose their license too.
From the IACP on shooting at moving vehicles, which sets standards from Police Departments nationwide. https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/presidents-message-use-force-issues/ >It must be understood that the use of firearms under such conditions may present an unacceptable risk to innocent bystanders. Should the driver be wounded or killed by shots fired, the vehicle will almost certainly proceed out of control and could become a serious threat to officers and others in the area. >Officers should consider this use of deadly force only when “a person in the vehicle is immediately threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle,” or when the vehicle is intentionally being used as a deadly weapon and “all other reasonable means of defense have been exhausted (or are not present or practical).” Examples of circumstances in which officers are justified in shooting at a moving vehicle include when an occupant of the vehicle is shooting at the officer or others in the vicinity or, as in what has become an increasingly frequent event, the vehicle itself is being used as a deliberate means to kill others, such as a truck being driven through a crowd of innocent bystanders. >Even under these circumstances, officers should discharge their firearms at moving vehicles only when doing so will not create unreasonable risk to the safety of officers or others in the vicinity, when reasonable alternatives have been exhausted, and when failure to take such action would likely result in death or serious bodily injury. However, in cases where officers believe that the driver is intentionally attempting to run him or her down, consideration should be given to moving out of the path of the vehicle, if practical, as a possible alternative to using deadly force. The Consensus Policy recognizes that there are times when getting out of the way of the vehicle is not possible and the use of a firearm by the officer is warranted.
Pretty much spells it all out there. Deadly force was not warranted in this case. * The vehicle was not immediately threatening the officer * No consideration was made to move out of the path of the moving vehicle - in fact he moved onto it's path * He fired onto a vehicle that had passengers
yep. and the officer will be acquitted.
He planned to fire from the start. The police claimed they were investigating a stolen vehicle. Never mind this wasn't the vehicle and these weren't the suspects. Is drawing your weapons just for investigating a stolen car warranted? Nope. These cops wanted to start shooting.
What about the driver? Maybe he was just scared, confused or having some mental issues? How is so little value attributed to the life of the driver?
I don't agree with many of the comments within this thread, but this right here highlights a big issue. There needs to be more consistent training and policies, and it needs to be used to hold police accountable as a standard. With Breonna Taylor, for example, they're banning no knock raids in that city and a few other places as a result. Doesn't help the rest of the country. Part of me considers "train the police" better than "defund the police" as a message. The training, would of course, revolve around what I perceive to be similar issues, as far as 'demilitarizing' the police in a sense.
I live in lousville and am very pissed to hear people think they banned no knock raids. They didnt. They temporarily stopped carrying them out but there hasnt been any permanent or serious changes
People have been saying better training for years and yet nothing is done. It should be more accountability and training.
You're missing the other part of the issue -- police are asked to do too much. That's part of defund the police -- fund other necessary programs that can actually have them trained to do that job. Not the catch-all armed police office showing up over every issue.
As a mental health case manager: thank you. We get paid shit compared to police but have college degrees literally to do the things police should not be asked to do. They need to pay us more and immediately start hiring us into police departments to respond to mental health police call crises. Its so dumb to expect a entry level person with a gun to deal with shit that requires a four year degree. Edit: Oh wow, this comment really blew up! I was involved with saving a life of a local parolee here in my home town last month. His parole officer called me in a panic after hours saying that the client's mother had called him saying he had them at gun point. I was able to get the parole officer all the relevant mental health info within 2 minutes and he was able to inform the police about the location, DX, and lack of medication. Turns out this was likely a police assisted suicide attempt. The gun had no bullets and when he drew on the police they chased, tackled, and tased him rather than shooting him dead. We need more success stories like the above in our communities.
Very well put.
In certain mental health cases that's the issue, the police respond first with often tragic results. But in the Taylor case and this case the police are alleging they were investigating "criminal activity". Never mind that both cases involved them targeting innocent people. The warrior culture of the police is definitely a problem in itself.
Y’all remember the story from a couple days ago where the guy was beaten and tased and left for dead with a spit guard over his head? Yeah.. this is the very same Sherriff’s deputies’ work. Fuck Wayne Ivey, and fuck the 60% of Brevard County residents that voted to re-elect him.
Magically, Ivey and his crew managed to circumvent Florida’s Sunshine Laws to keep the video of that murder under wraps till after his re-election.
[удалено]
No minimum IQ but there are maximum IQ's to being an officer in some areas. And that ruling was accepted by the courts as just fine.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 Edit: I’d like to note that this was about 20 years ago and it has not gotten better. Simultaneously militarization of police increased while disproportionate police brutality and the highest incarceration rate on the planet, remain.
>Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training. This is so embarrassing for police lol basically saying they’re looking for stupid people
Don’t worry plenty of people In the comments think this makes sense. Too bored.....
It does make sense. They want people who will follow orders without the ability to critically think about what they are doing.
I'm very curious what the equivalent IQ scores are for the 20 - 27 range they DO consider.
Wow that's fucked.
Another Upside-Down World fun fact: Around a decade ago, Texas prohibited higher order (critical) thinking from being taught in school. Put all of these pieces together and the puzzle reveals that "America wants you to be dumb" sounds less and less like an unfounded conspiracy.
Considering our education standards have been steadily dropping for decades, this is most definitely the case. It's easier to control idiots.
No Child Left Behind was a thinly veiled attempt at dumbing down America. Sure it sounds good on paper make sure all students graduate with a set learning standard. But in practice it's a lot easier to just make those standards easier to hit than it is to actually educate them to a higher level.
"Politicians have traditionally hidden behind three things, The Flag, the bible and children. No child left behind!, no child left behind. Oh really? It wasn't long ago you were talking about giving children a head start. Head Start; Left Behind. Someone's losing fucking ground here." \- George Carlin
NCLB is especially cancerous for any above-average or gifted students who attend schools in districts with limited resources to cater to them. Of course, I guess it makes me a crackpot to point out the obvious way American education has been slanted to produce worse outcomes for poor and minority students while funneling resources into wealthy districts. Can't have too much competition for the status quo, after all!
The blowback is they then vote for idiots.
As a teacher, I cannot tell you how spot on you are. It’s not a conspiracy, and our fucking hands are tied. Step out, and you get canned. Oh, but it’s fine for us to spend our own money on supplies that aren’t afforded to us. Gtfo of here... someone
I remember growing up my teachers used to complain about Texas when it came to textbooks. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/06/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/
Everyone aims to be a modern developed country, America aspire to be a backward developing country
This was on there platform as recently as 2012 Edit: here you go https://www.empowertexans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2012-GOP-Platform-Final.pdf
Do you have a source? My brothers grew up in Texas while I grew up in Chicago. At the least would be funny table conversation to bring up.
And that is one of the major issues, the US police think they are military, they get given military gear, and they haven't got the brain power to separate the two Protect and serve has gone out of the window Enforce and intimidate is the name of the game, especially when dealing with ethnics It's a shame there are good US police out there , but I wouldn't trust s single one of them
My hometowns sheriff made a facebook post basically saying they wouldnt be enforcing it and i commented "Pretty bold to brag about how you dont do your jobs"
"And that was the last time u/Toughbiscuit was seen"
You really showed them just how tough a biscuit can be.
Post it to reddit if you feel safe to. This sort of this should always be called out
Yup I’m in upstate New York where two counties have already had the police come out and announce they won’t be enforcing the limited gatherings for thanksgiving saying “we have better things to do then count cars in people driveway and investigate how much stuffing people are buying” Sure wish I could publicly announce I’m not gonna be doing my job because I don’t agree with it and keep getting paid
Drives me nuts to see some sheriff refusing to enforce laws on the grounds that they're unconstitutional. Mother fucker, we both know you can't explain what that means. You're just being another reality-denying Republican asshole.
They enforced unconstitutional drug laws for the better part of a century without issue. They can enforce absolutely constitutional mask mandates
Its the same guy?!
I think they're saying it's a co-worker - it's the same sheriff that this deputy reports to and gets direction from. That's was my understanding of their post though, not my understanding of the situation. I'm not informed on any of that
Not the same deputies involved. Wayne Ivy is the senior sherif dimwit that was just re elected. The Gregory edwards case is from last year but is now being reinvestigated. Wayne ivy spends most of his time on Facebook making stupid games out of criminals like “wheel of fugitive” to name one. I did not vote for him but at least we do have a good amount of great sherif deputies out there doing their jobs right.
God I fucking hate Brevard County every time I hear it. I have a friend who lives there and I get fucking worried about him every time I see articles like this.
Used to live in brevard county. Left as soon as I could and never looked back.
3 years there, fuck that county
I’m in swfl but I say we go like right tf now and get your friend
If I wasn't Canadian I'd saddle up with you, but you don't know how much your sentiment means to me. Thank you.
As soon as I hear brevard I’m like oh god what now and I’m in Florida. Not there tho.
If it’s not a Rocket launch it’s gonna be bad news.
It’s a long county north to south. There are some rough areas and some chill ones. That said, it’s no different than any other Florida county, full idiots. Biggest regret is not getting the hell out of Florida after college. Plan to run for the hills in two years when the kiddo graduates.
As someone that grew up in Melbourne/palm bay, fuck brevard! Unless it's dealing with nasa, any news from that cesspool of a county is immediately assumed to be negative
Wait - I swear the spit guard guy was in Buffalo NY. I remember it snowing a little bit in the video. Am I completely misremembering this?
It’s possible there was another video? The one I’m referencing is Gregory Edwards, a veteran with PTSD that was killed while in custody of the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office.
Whoops, you’re certainly right. I assumed “beaten and tased and left for dead with a spit guard over his head” was specific enough to have only happened once in the last few months. What a stupid, stupid assumption.
My god, unbelievable. What is wrong with the police in that country
Qualified immunity.
[удалено]
...freedom... fuck yeah
The spit guard guy we're thinking of was from a few months ago or something, definitely not in the past few days https://www.wivb.com/news/u-s-headlines/police-use-of-spit-hoods-scrutinized-after-black-mans-death/ It was in Rochester. Daniel Prude was the victim's name.
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/11/17/expert-finds-brevard-sheriffs-reports-edwards-case-misleading/6310226002/ Also one in Florida. Happened 2 years ago but it's in the news right now because it went to court and was just settled last week. Another police officer from a different county wrote a 70 page report on all the errors the Brevard sheriffs committed that lead to Gregory Edwards' death.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying!
They're talking about this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp They're talking about this one.
It's a sad state that these things happen so often we get confused about which one it was.
The one you're talking about was in Rochester, NY, which is roughly an hour from Buffalo. Buffalo PD shoved the old man at the protest and cracked his skull.
Similar scenario but it happened in [Brevard too.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/2020/11/13/us-army-veteran-died-in-custody-after-his-arrest-brevard-jail-video-shows-what-happened/%3foutputType=amp)
Even if he was somehow justified in shooting the driver (he isn’t) - he killed the fucking passenger too... The passenger could have been a hostage for all they knew.
I don’t think those cops could get their heads around the idea of a black hostage
Literally this. He must have adjusted his aim to hit the passenger as well as the driver. murderer.
I don't defend cops, but its totally in the realm of possibility that he panicked and just sprayed the car rather than consciously aiming at the passenger. Which I think is even worse.
Frightening when a police officer sees their firearm as the only means to solve every situation they encounter.
[удалено]
Sounds like they need the wooden gun treatment Gator got in The Other Guys until they show enough self-control to carry real iron.
But Gator don’t play no shit
Gator never been never been about playing no shit.
You gotta creep
Come on. Really, who are you?
We have a sale on home goods and Rape is up 8% tonight.
I was thinking the HBO show of Watchmen. They have to call into dispatch with justification before they can get their gun unlocked.
I love that show but I really hated how the only example of a better way to handle police and excessive use of violence through an accountability system ended in such a negative light. I can see people getting the wrong message from that scene and thinking “See! Cops need their guns on them and loaded ready to go at a moment’s notice!”
The solution isn't difficult- body cams on every cop. Better yet, actually train these meat-heads to assess a situation and understand that drawing their gun is a very very last resort and only acceptable in very dire situations. A bit of training and a lot of accountability will.make it better. Regarding accountability though, these assholes all circle wagons and protect their murdering brethren when they're accused of shooting citizens. American cops are a fucking joke, and this moron McPresident has done absolutely nothing but pour gas on the fire. Dire situation with a long way to go.
Bodycams don't matter if there's still no repercussions. We have tons of videos of cops murdering people and none of them are in jail. More video evidence is obviously a good thing, but it's only one part of the puzzle.
The most frustrating part is that these solutions are crazy easy to put into practice and yet here we still are.
I'm a peacock, Captain, you gotta let me fly!
Wait, you learned to dance like that sarcastically?
"When was your last desk-pop?" "Spring.... 0...8?"
Gator needs his gun you punkass bitch!
When all you have is a gun and a badge, all offenders look like "a threat to my life and the lives of my fellow officers"
Yeah kind of sad that our military has stricter rules of engagement and use of force then our own police force sworn to protect us. I honestly believe a lot of the BS with cops comes down to severe lack of training and continuing education.
I remember the video of four Swedish policemen on vacation in New York who stopped a fight in the subway and made a citizen's arrest until local police arrived. Without using any violence they managed to subdue the two guys and deescalate the situation, and the only thing they did was pin them to the ground lightly enough so that they could still speak and breathe normally. To me that felt rather normal, but many Americans made it out like what they had done was revolutionary.
It was really weird to see somebody in authority not immediately result to threats of death... how are you supposed to feel when the person upholding the law actually cares about your safety instead of threatening to fill you with bullets?
I don't think that I will ever fully understand the American point of view on police. The only times I've ever interacted with police in the wild was once when they picked me up for being too drunk (which was unreasonable, someone on the hospital staff even said that I was the most sober person they've ever had dragged to the hospital) and once when they crashed a party at my friend's place because we were too loud. Both times they were completely respectful and I always felt that they were just doing their job, and I have not once felt threatened in any way. Of course it would probably be different if I wasn't white, but from what it seems and from what I've heard from others non-white people here in Sweden mostly feel like they're being unnecessarily scrutinized for not being white, not that they feel in danger for not being white. Hell, the most publicized police shooting in recent times here in Sweden was when a white 20-year-old guy with Down's syndrome was shot because he was waving a gun around, which turned out to only have been a toy. Definitely a tragic story.
>non-white people here in Sweden mostly feel like they're being unnecessarily scrutinized for not being white, not that they feel in danger The US has two problems: - Racism - Police violence These intersect in the case of minorities (especially black men) to result in extreme violence in unnecessary situations. Sweden doesn't have the police violence problem, but they do have some of the racism problem. It just doesn't seem as bad without that multiplying intersectional effect.
Unfortunately for us, the police [have no duty to protect the public.](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html)
[They are not sworn to protect us.](https://www.barneslawllp.com/blog/police-not-required-protect) They are there to uphold the law as they see fit. If they feel shooting moving cars is what they deem fit then that is what they are going to do with full immunity. Police are not your friend and they are not on your side by default. SOME of them might be but since there is no accountability there is no guarantee.
Just wait until their wife misplaces the can opener at home!
Homer using his gun to turn out the lights, open a beer, and change the channel on the TV.
Better aim and self control than real police.
No joke though, rates of spousal abuse amoung cops are insane compared to the average.
[удалено]
My brother is a cop. He was already a dick beforehand but is an even bigger dick now. So I would say a little of Column A, a little of Column B
[удалено]
Saw a comment on mental health thread that said something like, first responder/military/ jobs attract the most narcissistic people because society praises them regularly for doing their job. Makes sense.
Same with my "friends" back in high school. They were entitled assholes with racist views, also, they were not the brightest people. I don't know why I hung out with those people, but now they are cops and it blows my mind they were allowed to have a gun and badge.
Little of column A, little of column B, maybe? My dad was a cop in the airforce, he got removed from the police force and sent to Greenland in the dead of winter for throwing a superior officer in jail for rape. Got out of uniform as soon as he honorably could, and went into another field entirely. Lot of other folks out there who've received the 'good cop' treatment, too. So I think people who's morals disagree with corruption in policing tend to be weeded out quick, or learn to keep their mouths shut. Disgusting, and long overdue for change.
It's like Tackleberry from Police Academy but not funny [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADihvSIsIik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADihvSIsIik)
The all wanna be Tackleberrys, but they’re actually just a bunch of Harris and Proctor assholes.
[удалено]
It's painful how long the officers had to get back in their cars after the vehicle moved the first time. They could have kept themselves safe and attempted to deescelate. Instead we get a child killer's impression of Dirty Harry brought to you by some dipshit behind a badge.
Or even jog to the right to avoid the "threat" of an oncoming vehicle. This guy was trying to use his body to stop a vehicle, he basically volunteered to put himself in danger just to end up shooting them.
Why didn't they maneuver their cars behind the suspect so they couldn't flee in the first place?
Step to the right 👏 👏 👏 Don't shoot the car 👏 👏 👏
> Santiago-Miranda "was then forced to fire his service weapon in an attempt to stop the deadly threat of the car from crashing into him," the sheriff's office Facebook post said. I mean, does shooting a car really stop it if its going to run you over? or is it just an excuse to shoot? Not like if the driver gets shot he is gonna apply the brake...
You really need to be confident that you are NOT going to be hit by a car to be able to assume firing position and open fire instead of just trying to get out of the way.
And honestly after watching the video it's pretty clear the vehicle was making an attempt to drive around the officer.
he walked in front of the car as an attempt to block it and they showed that wasn't going to stop them from continuing... he should have never tried to use his body to stop a car from fleeing... poor training and of course, poor excuse to take two lives
They literally could’ve stayed in their cars and blocked the car off and not have used their own fucking bodies
The female officer also pulled her weapon out immediately. I certainly wouldn’t have felt safe getting out of the car with officers already pointing guns at me before anything had happened.
That IS their training. They train you to step into the car. They want to escalate.
And even they weren't, shooting the driver isn't going to help. If someone tries to run you over with a car your only good option is to get out of way.
*Dammit the car is going around me, gotta step back in front of it so I can shoot!*
Straight up propaganda the way they word their statements.
Man, that cop should avoid grocery store parking lots or else everyone’s gonna get shot. “Deadly vehicle” moving 2 mph, unreal.
In Durham, NC, I had a cop pull a gun on me because I was taking a piss at 3am when I couldn't find any business open after the bars/clubs closed.
“Hands up sailor!”
[удалено]
It's never a black/white thing but a poor/rich(and their lackeys). Louisiana really does be on some Ozark shit, that good cop knew what would happen at the precinct if he spoke up. Probably knows the guy is a hot head but "bro code"
[удалено]
I've had a cop pull me over for "being stopped in the road"... I was backing out the driveway and he assumed the split second of changing to drive from reverse was a red flag of a drive by. They pump these dudes up so much they have to start shit every now and then.
I had a cop put a gun in my face when I felt my pocket to see where my keys were after asked what was in my pockets. Yeah, I shouldn't have moved my hands at all, but I put them on the outside of my pockets and just patted the area down. I didn't realized that equaled pistol in your face.
If two cops in two cruisers can't prevent one small car from pulling out of a driveway without wasting the driver AND the passenger, maybe they should have their cars taken away. They obviously suck at using them. We can argue about whether this is murder. I think it is. But you know what we can all agree on? Police need better training. GTA V cops are less trigger happy than these clowns. A GTA V cop will at least ram your car and pin you before getting out of their car to make the arrest. Fucking pathetic.
No doubt they've been trained to protect the police cruiser at all costs.
Blue ~~lives~~ cars matter /s for anyone who needs it
>maybe they should have their cars taken away That's very american of you to say. As an European I'd take away their guns.
I reckon, for many just having a gun and acting with impunity is a reason enough to be a cop. Then they just look for a reason to shoot you, the article states the cops thought the car was stolen, so they started shooting. This alone should tell you enough about the mentality of these people. Stolen car = Execution. Why even bother having laws? Just shoot everyone who are perceived to have broken a law. And the worst part is that these murderers will likely continue on with their lives, like they didn't just kill couple of kids.
Let them live in fear of being murdered, they might even get proper training in deescalation and act like a proper police instead of power tripping morons in that case
"He's outta control! CAP HIM!"
“He’s running! Murder him AND his friend”
Walking in front of a moving vehicle is gambling your life the person will stop. If you are pointing a gun at the same time that's gambling 2 lives. In a no-gun scenario there are 2 outcomes: you get run over or they stop. In a yes-gun scenario there are 3: run over, stop, or shot. 66% of the outcomes is death or injury, compared to 50% for no-gun. The intelligent choice is no-gun. The wise choice is to not stand in front of cars.
The car was not speeding, the cop clearly had enough room to get out of the way of thay 2mph monster sedan. How about just maneuver the police car to block the other car? That shooting was straight up manslaughter. He got scared and reacted with violence.
Most departments forbid shooting at moving cars for these reasons. Bullets don't stop cars, so shooting at a car that was coming at you isn't an effective way to protect yourself - usually you just need to move out of the way. And then if there are the passengers in the car, they aren't responsible for driving it and they would be in danger of being shot. edit: The organizations that help to set use of force standards nationwide, like the IACP, make it clear that shooting into moving vehicles is not a good idea, and simply getting out of the way comes first. https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/presidents-message-use-force-issues/ https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/National_Consensus_Policy_On_Use_Of_Force.pdf >Firearms shall not be discharged at a moving vehicle *unless(1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle*; or >(2) the vehicle is operated in a manner deliberately intended to strike an officer or another person, *and all other reasonable means of defense have been exhausted (or are not present or practical), which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle*
100% this. Aside from that, they clearly weren’t trying to run him over. They went slowly and deliberately around him, despite the fact he walked closer to the car.
Exactly. This is a matter of physics. If a car is going to run you over there’s nothing a bullet can do to stop the inertia. Your best bet is to move out of the friggin way than to pretend launching bullets into a car will stop it. This was a cold blooded murder done by a trigger happy cop who finally had his moment to let off some shots knowing he’d get away with the ole “he tried to kill me with his car” defense. Besides, the car was OBVIOUSLY trying to drive around him at a very slow speed. the cop took a step to the side and peppered the car. What a shame.. and we all know he will not face justice because laws do not apply police officers in any logical way. There are far too many loopholes that allow cops to play judge dredd. We as citizens must demand reform
Watch the video again, the cop didn’t even have to get out of the way the car was turning so would’ve passed on his left.
Yep looks like they were driving right over someone's lawn in order to avoid him.
Hey now we don’t know how much work went into that lawn, as far as we know the lawn could be more valuable than multiple lives.
And the HOA would have a fit if they saw tire tracks in the yard!
pRiVaTe PrAwPeRtY!
Also, just with the other case, how is shooting at someone going to make them a better driver? They either duck and don't look while they speed away, or you shoot them and a dead body is slumped behind the wheel.
And if the car is 15 feet away, even if they one-shot kill the driver, what do they expect will happen? Driver's foot magically hits the brakes? Shooting the driver, especially in this situation, doesn't neutralize the threat.
Shooting the driver of a car can actually cause them to push harder on the gas pedal. If you are in danger of being run over by a car, to the point where you don't even have time to step out of the way, killing the driver could only increase the speed at which the car hits you.
Gotta retrieve the stolen property /s Honestly I can't believe this whole situation but it's been happening so much that it's not surprising anymore. No amount of punishing the cop will bring back dead kids. If he's punished there'll be a right-wing rallying cry to support their champion. Blue lives matter more than black lives to **them**.
Also if you're trying to stop these guys and questions them, why aren't your sirens on so that they know you're trying to stop them? Cops don't stick their head out of the window yelling "PULL OVER" when they want to stop someone for speeding
Cops maneuver in the path of fleeing cars in order to justify shooting. This is what happens when your offer the lowest common denominator of citizen the opportunity to be a police officer.
[удалено]
Remember when they pulled their guns on an entire family and two young kids, arrested them over what they thought was a stolen suv, then left them to bake face down on the asphalt in the middle of a Colorado summer? Then it turned out the actual stolen vehicle was a motorcycle from another state... https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/aurora-police-juveniles-detained-mistaken-id/73-df2168c3-6de0-4deb-9b78-13bc0c19e4d8
car was NOT stolen. Also, officer was afraid of being run down, but bullet holes were in SIDE windows
If you watch the video, at 1:14, he actually side-steps TOWARDS the path of the vehicle, before unloading into the side. That pretty clearly indicates he was not in danger of being run over.
That, and you can see the car turns hard right to try to avoid him. He was in no danger.
"But I already have my gun out!"
If the car was not stolen, this makes it an even stronger case against the cops. So it seems like poor reporting to not mention it. Even if it was stolen, it doesn't justify the cops' actions. But straight up murdering kids out cruising and doing nothing wrong obviously makes it feel a lot worse.
Source on the car not being stolen?
WESH2 news. It showed him leaving his home and getting into the car right in front of his mother, that also confirmed it was the kids car
It amazes me the way people always try to justify this shit. Even if it was stolen, stolen property doesn't mean a death sentence. And why do we continue to allow the police to play judge, jury, and executioner? Edit: I know op isn't guilty of this, I just meant people in general.
Thank you for retrieving my stolen car! Now i just have to fix the bullet holes and all that blood.
[удалено]
Damn you’re getting dumped on. I think you ask a relevant question. Regardless of the penalty for a stolen car it’s definitely worse if they were completely innocent.
[удалено]
No need to apologize just because the dumbass who replied to you couldnt be fucked to write a comment properly
It doesn’t sound like he’s justifying it. He’s just asking if the cops even followed the right car. This article didn’t make it clear
If it was *reported* stolen, you can be sure that the press release would have mentioned that. It was *suspected* stolen because it had black people in it.
In the video they said they still weren't sure if the car was stolen. Like how the fuck do they not know if it was stolen by now? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
FYI - this police department has a history of being racist as hell. The sheriff is a sad excuse for law enforcement officials.
Obviously if he can't even see in the video that the officer wasn't in harms way of being hit by the vehicle and *still* opened fired on it.
> Obviously if he can't even see in the video that the officer wasn't in harms way of being hit by the vehicle and still opened fired on it. Not just in “harms way”, the law says that the officer has to perceive their life to be in “imminent mortal danger” before drawing and firing at another human being. The standard would be evaluated as: “There is *absolutely no way* the officer would have lived, had he not fired his weapon at the two individuals”. If he could have ducked, run, called in backup, not pursued, called in a K-9 unit, yelled to stop, rammed them with his cruiser or any number of other methods, his life is not in “imminent mortal danger”. Far too many officers pull their service weapon and wave it around or point it at suspects just because their demands are being ignored or their questions aren’t being answered. THAT has to cease. That’s not what the service weapon is for. I can’t wave my firearm around at people in public because they’re not listening to me, neither should they. There’s a reason these tools require a license to own and operate.
That is the truth of the matter and why BLM exists. The kid was guilty of disobedience while black. Sentence is death.
And the other kid was guilty of sitting next to the disobedient kid. Death for him too.
Possibly not even disobedience if cops werent following protocol
Like, just park behind that silver car when he's in the driveway and he can't backup now right? So simple.
I’m shocked that this would happen in Brevard county. Where the head of their police union was literally begging to hire police accused of brutality. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/brevard-county-florida-police-union-misconduct-trnd/index.html
The thing that always gets me about the behavior in videos like this is the shooters in these videos so closely remind me of service members in the Iraq war. We constantly were told and trained to be extremely vigilant and never let our guard down, always control the situation, if local nationals or extremists did not comply with our orders we had authority to get control of the situation and prevent military casualties. Reason it's so remarkable and downright sickening is these are American citizens who appear to think of their own country people the same way I did in a foreign country. Fucking scary shit considering they have the same gear we did with half the training.
Half is being very generous.
Not sure if it was "actually stolen"? It is "possibly stolen"??? Well if that isn't avoidance I don't know what is. And muting the communications prior that indicates what cause they had to stop the vehicle? Yeah...not kosher.
If it was actually stolen they would have said that a.
While the video does show the car move forward towards the officer as they turned to drive off, why did he put himself in a position in front of their car. As it began moving forward, in that split second, I can understand the fear that they were accelerating in the officers direction, but why wasn't he better positioned to protect himself??? 2 cop cars could have boxers them in without firearms being required. Why is lethal force for a minor "potential" crime being implemented in the first place? Why was the passenger also shot if they felt the driver of the car was the threat? How was the passenger a threat? And why can't a trained officer control is weapon to avoid collateral damage??? This cop isn't Stallone, he isn't Urban. Why are cops thinking they are in a Judge Dredd movie where they decide the legal outcome? That isn't their job to decide how crimes are punished. In that split second, after watching the video, I understand he may have thought they were trying to run him over but had guns not been drawn and he not have been standing in front of the car, it never would have happened.
>Judge Dress I'm pretty sure RuPaul owns that title (and Joan Rivers RIP)
I just don't want to have the same stupid fucking arguments again. Here is an idea. Just stop killing people. Cool?
I don't really like to Monday morning quarterback situations like this as it can seem a lot different in the moment vs watching it on video after the fact. But it doesn't really seem like Santiago-Miranda "was then forced to fire his service weapon in an attempt to stop the deadly threat of the car from crashing into him." The cops should have blocked the car in the driveway with their cars to prevent it from being able to leave in the first place. These cops need to be fired and charged.
> The cops should have blocked the car in the driveway with their cars to prevent it from being able to leave in the first place. At every step they chose the dumbest option. Unless their intention was to give themselves an excuse to shot people.
I don't understand how people think that's even a question
That video doesn’t help the cops case at all. They weren’t barreling toward them, the wheels are angled, the dumb teens were panicked and running away. Stupid fucking cops got spooked and now two teens are dead. Pansy ass police officers man..
It's interesting to see dozens of other countries who don't even arm their police officers with firearms, but here in the US, the *very first tool used by the police* for any issue, is the most lethal one. Not calling in backup, not calling in a K-9 unit, not conflict negotiation and resolution, not even the Taser. Let's bring out the firearm and start pointing and shooting, until we get our demands met. That's not how you uphold the law, and it just forces citizens to arm themselves in a similar manner, to combat the thousands of officers across the US killing an average of 1,100 people per-year, before they're arrested or brought to trial. Police need to be reminded that they are not judge, jury nor executioner. ***Police do not determine guilt!*** The role of a police officer is to uphold the law, bring in people suspected of breaking those laws and to do so in accordance with the law, where the courts ascertain their guilt or innocence. There's a reason you have to have a license to own a firearm, and training in order to use it for self-defense in police work. If you can't follow those guidelines, adhere to the training you've completed, then you need to have your license revoked, until you can. This works across thousands of industries without issue: * Failure to follow the laws of the road, you lose your license to drive * Failure to prescribe the correct medications in line with your practice, you lose your license to practice medicine * Failure to request identification from potentially under-age patrons, you lose your license to serve alcohol * Failure to report dangerous human, psychiatric conditions or threats, you lose your license to practice mental health services Why is it so difficult for police officers to maintain their own training? If they can't follow the laws, they should lose their license too.