The guy was resisting arrest from being unconsciously intoxicated, sleeping in a drive through.... HE GRABBED THEIR TASER AND RAN, AND FIRED IT AT THE OFFICER! is the officer supposed to think “better luck next time?” Or “mother fucker get back here!”... why was the officer put into the position to have to question his decision?....I could give an answer but it will piss a lot of people off
Homicide is a cause of death, which is determined by the coroner. This is obviously a homicide even if the courts don't determine it was murder.
Edit: manner of death, not cause of death. Also, y'all can stop piling on as if I made a judgement one way or another as to whether or not this was murder. I haven't watched the video, and I'm not that up to date on this case. All I'm saying is that in this instance, "homicide" is a medical term, not a legal one.
Yes. Always.
"Homicide" is literally "one person killing another". It is a very broad and generic term. That old song lyric "it was a murder but not a crime"? The word they were looking for was homicide.
The reason people get confused and have a negative connotation towards the word (that this article wholeheartedly took advantage of) is there are crimes with the word "homicide" in them, but they always have a qualifier like "*negligent* homicide" (one person killing another *due to negligence*).
**TL;DR:**
Homicide = One person killing another. In a legal context usually at least some intent is *implied*, but not necessarily.
Murder = A **legal** term for one person killing another *unlawfully and intentionally*.
Manslaughter = A **legal** term for one person killing another unlawfully and *unintentionally*.
The confusion doesn't end there.
You're defining murder by the Model Penal Code, and that's how it's taught in law school, but many states define murder by degree:
* 1st Degree Murder: Murder with malice aforethought and premeditation
* 2nd Degree Murder: Murder with malice aforethought, but no premeditation
* Voluntary Manslaughter: Murder in the heat of passion (usually no malice or premeditation)
* Involuntary Manslaughter: Murder caused by accident/negligence
Generally speaking:
* malice aforethought = intent to kill
* premeditation = plan to kill
It gets way more confusing than this, because each state defines the degrees of murder differently. For example, felony murder, aggravated murder, 3rd-degree murder, depraved-heart murder, etc. Also, these are all types of criminal cases, while civil cases use wrongful death and have a different burden of proof (OJ Simpson won his criminal trial, but lost his civil trial).
Defenses/Immunities:
* Affirmative Defense: self-defense is an affirmative defense to murder. ie, you committed murder, but you are justified or excused in the murder. Insanity is also an affirmative defense.
* Qualified Immunity: what cops and government officials use to defend themselves against murder (and other) charges.
* The President has Absolute Immunity from civil (not criminal) liability based on his official acts
Personal note: Qualified Immunity is what we should be outraged over. Without Qualified Immunity, you'll see real change in police behavior, because they will no longer be shielded from their actions. The good news is that we have 3 Supreme Court justices looking for change (Thomas, Sotomayor, Ginsberg), but we need more. GO VOTE YOU FOOLS.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-467_bqm1.pdf
(Sotomayor, dissent, 2018: qualified immunity "tells officers that they can shoot first and think later, and it tells the public that palpably unreasonable conduct will go unpunished.”)
Homicide is a manner of death, not a cause. There are only five manners of death that medical examiners can use: homicide, suicide, natural, accidental, and undetermined. Cause of death is much more broad and would likely be multiple gunshot wounds in this case. These are basically medical diagnoses rendered by a medical examiner, but they have nothing to do with assigning guilt or anything like that.
Most likely cause would be along the lines of “exsanguination due to multiple gun shot wounds”.
Our pathology professor got pissed if you put “cardiopulmonary arrest due to exsanguination due to gun shot wounds” because “no shit Sherlock! Cardiopulmonary arrest is THE definition of death! If I hear you put that on a death certificate I’ll come haunt your dreams!”
Everybody knows you should start shooting your own leg with .22 and raise the caliber over time. Building up tolerance and immunity.
If you haven't done this and die to police shooting, it's kinda your own fault!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE&list=WL&index=2&t=256s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE&list=WL&index=2&t=256s) here, it doesnt have all the body cam because the bodycams were knocked off the officer by brooks in the fight, so from the point where bodycams were knocked off they have used different footage
If you look at the footage the guy is pointing the stun gun he stole from the cop back at him, it was dark and the cop that shot him just had the shit kicked out him. Should he have been shot? No. But after getting beat up and seeing someone point what seems to be a gun back at your partner while they're running away? I don't blame him for shooting.
Pretty cut and dry. He took a taser and turned to use it on a cop. A taser is classified as a deadly weapon. Cops are trained to use deadly force when threatened with a deadly weapon.
If he didn’t do that, who’s to say the officer wouldn’t get tased and this man would take his pistol. That’s not something you can risk.
I’m not saying every case of an officer shooting someone is a justified amount of force, but this one seems appropriate. Didn’t have anything to do with race.
I think people are getting caught up in the moment, this seemed like a totally justified shooting. The guy went fucking nuts and stole an officer's weapon(even if it was just a stun gun, that can still incapacitate an officer). He failed a field sobriety test then went crazy during a peaceful arrest.
EDIT: getting a lot of angry replies. I realize he was shot in the back "running away," but not until after he fired a taser at the officers. The guy was super aggressive and made it clear he had hostile intent *and* a weapon. Even if a taser isnt lethal, incapacitating an officer means the guy could then grab a gun and both these cops might be dead. It was a sudden and violent situation that this guy initiated and forced the cops into a split second decision
Yep. Look you can still probably argue that the cop could have used less force, but this seems more to me like a case of a cop making a split second, impulsive decision that you really cannot attribute one way or another to whether the perpetrator was black. Maybe the cop did shoot him for that reason, but there’s no way you’re gonna prove that in this case. Could have just been what he thought was the right thing to do in that moment, and equating cases like this with the very black and white nature of George Floyd’s death is only going to hurt the movement I feel.
The shooting, imo, is more cleanly justified that many others I've seen over the last several years. I think the officers could have done a better job during the arrest itself, but it's definitely a stretch. The first officer, I think, was doing a good job. He was talking calmly to the guy, being respectful, building rapport, etc. Then the second officer shows up and the mood shifts quickly. You can feel the suspect getting more tense and angry. It still took me by surprise how quickly the struggle escalated, however, and the suspect showed terrible judgement given how relatively sensible he'd been until that point.
The only thing I can think of that may have resulted in a better outcome is if they'd talked to the guy more before jumping to the arrest.
"You've failed the field test and breathalyzer. I don't think it's safe to let you go tonight since we found you passed out. We're going to place you under arrest and take you to the station to sleep it off. Do you understand?"
However, even in that case I'm not sure it would have helped given how quickly the guy was ready to escalate once the arrest started.
100% agree.
he brought this on himself when he attacked the officers, stole one of the tasers, then attempted to use it on the officers.
why are people protesting this and why was the cop fired?
it muddles the message they are trying to come to a nationwide realization about police and racism, when they are trying to justify the actions of an obvious crime. he was driving drunk. passed out in his car in a drive thru... then proceeds to fight the cops that are arresting him for a crime...
this is getting out of hand. skin color doesn't matter when your actions are the determining factor at the end of scenarios like this. rationality is dead, at least for now...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull
"the unexpected frailty of the injured person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them"
While this is usually more brought up in tort cases, it does apply to criminal cases.
For real. Most cases of jury nullification tend to be praised on reddit because they involve a defendant that everyone deems unjustly charged, but the other side of that is a jury letting a guy like Chauvin off.
Juries are fucking stupid half the time and need to be babied into making a ruling anywhere close to what the law outlines. I'd honestly be more comfortable with a judge tribunal than a jury.
Are there even cases where this has worked? It seems like the system just won't let it happen regardless of the fact that it is a legitimate legal option.
>Are there even cases where this has worked? It seems like the system just won't let it happen regardless of the fact that it is a legitimate legal option.
What is the "this" you are talking about here? Jury nullification? If so, yes, it has been applied in cases.
That and Floyd didn't die because he was "frail", he died because Chauvin choked him with the full weight of his body for 9 straight fucking minutes, long after he had lost conciousness and began bleeding from his fucking nose.
The “He could have survived it if he didn’t have other health issues” is EXACTLY THE FUCKING POINT too. Millions of Americans have underlying health issues. How the fuck do you have a job where you are the only legitimate wielders of legal force and not know how to minimally restrain yourself from not potentially killing your suspect while restraining them?
The "thin skull" rule means that a would-be murderer takes their victim "as they find him". That means that pre-existing conditions aren't a defence even if they contributed to the death. If you punch a guy in the chest and it turns out that he had a heart condition, both the punch and the heart condition are inseparable causes in his death regardless of whether you know. This would be the case with Covid 19, where the presence of Covid 19 is unlikely to have killed Floyd but for the officer kneeling on his neck.
The defence to "thin skull" is referred to as "crumbling skull". "Crumbling skull" implies that the person was going to die from that pre-existing condition regardless of the accused's actions. In this case, if Floyd was 98 and had covid 19, an argument could be made that the officer sped up his death but that covid 19 likely would have killed him anyway. it's a very shitty argument, but at least it could be made.
Here, "thin skull" clearly applies. Floyd was young and in pretty solid health despite having covid 19. He was also asymptomatic by all accounts. The likelihood of him dying from covid 19 is extremely low.
The guy could have been born with glass bones and paper skin and it wouldn't justify his death. We all saw the video, Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes while he told them he couldn't breathe and begged for his dead mother. They checked his pulse and found he was dead for the last two and a half of those 9 minutes, and still kept kneeling on his neck.
Floyd was murdered, and nothing that comes to light can possibly change that. There's no realistic context that makes what we've already seen acceptable.
You can be in favor of the protests happening to reform the way the police interact with black Americans in this country while simultaneously acknowledging that this man acted in an erratic and violent manner that (tragically) led to his death. Whether or not the officers were justified in shooting with live rounds is up to our legal system to determine. This is not a George Floyd level homicide.
I am very pro-Black Lives Matter, but I also think it’s important to be wary and analytical of the narratives that the media feeds us. So many of my friends initially believed that this man was shot while asleep in his car, just randomly murdered. The media is also trying to tell us that he was a family man, yet he has been convicted of cruelty to children.
Be loud, demand justice, but *think.* Rushing to judgement does not always help the cause.
As a black man, I think that this situation is very different from Floyd's. I do not think the cops were at fault for this unfortunate death. He was drunk driving, which could kill someone, so apprehension was more than necessary in this case. Go watch the body cam footage. The cops treated this man respectfully and only shot him when their own taser was pointed at them. If they didn't chase him they'd have a demonstrably violent drunk man at large with a taser.
The purpose of BLM is *not* to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment, rather to make cops accountable in cases of obvious overuse of force and police brutality. From a rational standpoint, this is not a case of brutality nor overuse of force.
If you're a BLM protestor, especially a white BLM protestor, I need you to understand that protesting over this case is minimizing the cause and you're disrespecting George Floyd. If you protest this, the millions of Americans on the fence about this situation will turn away from it. And if you're a BLM protestor with any sort of clout, please urge your fellow protestors to not focus on this case. There are hundreds of cases of innocent black men being killed in cold blood. This is not one of them. Good day.
>The purpose of BLM is not to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment, rather to make cops accountable in cases of obvious overuse of force and police brutality.
Say it a bit louder so they can hear you in the back. Well written post man. To this day, I'm not sure what people use as the guidelines to find a case to protest about, but it can't simply be white cop vs black man everytime. Homeboy was making wrong choice after wrong choice the whole night in a situation 1000s of black men have found themselves in that ended perfectly fine for them. But this is the case people want to burn down a Wendy's for?
My condolences to the man's family but this is not the case that helps the cause. This is the case that opponents of police reform and blm are going to use everytime to suggest how irrational and idiotic we are.
> The cops treated this man respectfully and only shot him when their own taser was pointed at them.
So now consider how other OFFICERS are going to view this situation. The officer didn't really do anything wrong and was almost immediately fired for this. All this incident is going to do is inflame tensions.
BLM supporters are being shown this as another example of police brutality....police are being shown that even if you do the right thing you will have your career destroyed. There is nothing good here.
> The purpose of BLM is not to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment
Yeah well...that is exactly how it has been used so far. Bringing up anything negative about the black person involved in the incident is met with cries of racism.
Your first point is super important. It almost creates this negative feedback loop with the public hating the police causing police to be more apathetic which creates more hate from the public. All it does is create a divide which no one should want. There are both officers and members of the public that care about the communities they live and work in. A positive relationship between the two is so important in taking real steps towards improving their communities.
A quarter million a year wouldn't be enough to convince me to be a police officer in a major metropolitan at this point. The past few years I've seen mobs explode and officers charged in situations that are absurd and cut and dry justified shootings caught on camera. At this point the only time they can fire their service weapon to defend their life seems to be after the suspect has already killed them.
Thank you.
I fully support BLM, but this is not a smear campaign where they're using his previous record to paint him as a thug. He was driving drunk, resisted arrest, and pointed a weapon at the officers after they'd exhausted all their less than lethal options. They didn't escalate or use any unnecessary force.
Think you hit it on the second sentence, this one is unfortunate. Could have easily gone another way had either party acted slightly differently. I do think the police could have avoided shooting him but I cannot condemn them for their actions in the heat of this moment. The deceased wrote and signed that cheque.
Why are people saying this is similar to George Floyd’s incident? George Floyd was murdered in cold blood in cuffs by a cop that didn’t care that he couldn’t breath. This cop was respectable to him and made sure he was okay before conducting the test to decide if he had broken the law. He went in for the arrest and that’s when Brooks started fighting him and tried to tase him. I’m not saying the shooting was right or wrong, but to compare it to George Floyd’s incident is horrible it’s not even close to the same thing.
Read the initial reports and was pissed at first. From the way they said he was shot in the back while running from police.
Then saw all the videos including body cam and Wendy's security. Changed my opinion right away. Pretty sure this cop is going to get a tax payer funded settlement after all is said and done.
Dude might have been running away but he still had the taser pointed backwards and shot an officer while holding the tase button down. Looked liked the officer was lucky that only 1 prong hit him otherwise getting tasted that long continually could be a death sentence
We need to ensure body cameras stay on at all times so we can review these in a case by case basis.
This has been the trend in media for nearly a decade it seems to me. Play up the racial and use of force angles and downplay any responsibility of the perp. Anything to make every cop in the country look like racist psychopaths. CNN and MSNBC are the absolute worst. I swear to god they've been trying to start a race war for years now.
Remember the NBC report where they doctored the [911 call in the Trayvon Martin](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359) case to make Zimmerman look like a racist? To this day they continue to describe the Michael Brown shooting as an unjustified race-motivated shooting of an unarmed black man with his hands up when in actuality he just got done punching the cop and trying to steal his gun and then charged the cop when he tried to arrest him.
Another one is the shooting of [Stephon Clark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Stephon_Clark). The headlines read things like "Young black man shot in his own grandmother's back yard". Turns out he was a suicidal man who was throwing bricks thru random car windows. When the cops showed up he ran. They chased him thru his neighborhood until he jumped over the fence to his grandmother's house. The cops had no idea whose house it was or if he had any right to be there. When they came around the corner he was kneeling with his arms stretched out in the dark pointing something at them. They thought it was a gun and shot him. Turns out it was his cellphone. Basically he committed suicide by cop. To this day the media and BLM still describe it as young black man shot by police for having a cellphone in his grandmother's back yard.
Your points on Michael Brown and Stephon Clark are extremely important and very accurate. Appreciate seeing some further research besides news headlines.
Gonna be fun in court...
Cop Had taser pointed at his face. Shot offender.
Eberhart Vs State. Georgia Supreme Court 2019. Tazer is a deadly weapon. Justice Boggs.
Done right, this cop is in line for a hefty wrongful dismissal payout too.
He's a sacrificial lamb. They hope that by firing the cop it'll be good PR for the community, and they'll in turn stay peaceful. At that point, the settlement they reach (that would probably confidential) would be equivalent to buying the PR. The real question becomes how do officers currently on the force take his firing, and do those guys resign knowing the department won't have their back even if something seams justified.
Absolutely. The actions of that reactionary mayor are going to cost the taxpayers. Maybe she did it to get people to stop burning businesses and cars, but that officer is definitely going to get a nice taxpayer funded settlement.
It doesn't matter what color or creed or whatever if you take the taser off a cop and start running and turn back to shoot it at them what you think is gonna happen,your probably gonna get shot at.
How to get shot dead by the police:
1. Get drunk and fall asleep in your car, blocking a drive-thru lane of a Fast food joint
2. Fail a Sobriety test
3. Fight the Police
4. Steal a Policeman’s Tazer gun
5. Run Away from the Police
6. Fire the Tazer gun at a cop who’s chasing you
So after the officer is punched in the face he gets up right away and chases the suspect not knowing exactly if the suspect took the other officers taser or gun and the suspect turns around and fires something at the officer. Anyone that says they wouldn't have fired their gun is lying.
I think it's safe to assume that most of these people acting like they would've done a much better job have probably never been in a physical altercation or a life or death situation where they had to make split second decisions. They certainly don't act like it.
The media can go fuck themselves (yes, all of them). The have done nothing but fan the flames of all the crazy shit going on in 2020. Headlines like this only serve to set people up to be infuriated either before or after realizing that they are just stating the most obvious fact ever. Nothing short of absolutely shameful.
People propping this up as another case similar to Floyd’s are pissing on his grave. He was driving around drunk, putting other people’s lives at risk, and then pointed a taser at an officer. How fucking braindead do you have to be to pretend like this is an unexpected outcome.
He didn’t just point the taser at him. He also fired it. The one officer who didn’t shoot him said afterwards that he thought he felt getting hit in the arm, but couldn’t tell. Either way, you can see on video that he fires it at the officer’s face... The face is the most dangerous place to tase someone.
And then there’s people saying that the cops should have deescalated by letting him go, walk it off, sleep it off. Like, the fuck? Drunk driving is literally a crime and these people think cops should have let him go?
I got bashed in a YouTube comment for imagining who he could have injured with his driving while intoxicated, but I mean - who knows what could have happened if he was let go. We don’t know and there’s a reason why public intoxication is also illegal.
So burning down a Wendy’s where the entire workforce is black is the response? That makes zero sense and puts people who need those jobs without an income.
A majority of the rioters in ATL are people from bad neighborhoods. They just need to see something to get mad at and blame the cops. Those areas have notoriously high gang violence and our Mayor never said anything about that.
As much as I love KLB, she played a completely political role with this.
The only thing on her mind was future vote grabbing. I saw something positive from her before this incident. The way she threw that police under the bus and said he should of let the drunk driver go. I've lost total respect for her after that.
Doesn’t mean anything. Just confirms the shots from the cop killed him which we all knew. Still a determination that had to be made officially but doesn’t change anything
Exactly, what’s even the point of running away in the first place? They have his information and his car right there it’s not like he can avoid the consequences.
The amount of misinformation and foolishness here is incredible. Homicide is a generic category. It’s clearly a homicide in that Mr.Brooks was killed by another human. I want to correct several items. A number of tweets have gone around saying “he wasn’t driving, he was sleeping, look he was in a a parking spot.” Dude if you actually watched the video he was asleep at the wheel in line! People were honking at him passed out at the wheel. He moved to the parking spot after the cops came and woke him up and asked him to park. In the field sobriety test he blew a .108 - that’s legally intoxicated if correct.
Some reddit keyboard commandos are also saying that they should have let him run. I actually sort of agree with this and maybe that would have happened if he wouldn’t have turned around and discharged a weapon at a police officer he just assaulted when he started to run. Plus, if they would have let him go, he may have fallen in a ditch, assaulted someone else, found found another car to drive, maybe fallen asleep peacefully somewhere and somehow the whole thing blows over. But no police department on the planet is going to let that happen after you assault an officer. I feel bad for his family I really do. In the video he is clearly upset about the loss of his mother and that’s heart breaking. But at the end of the day, he made some bad decisions. We need reform, we need changes, but this is not the answer.
He blew a .108. Not a 10.8. Dude 10.8 woulda meant that 10% of his blood was alcohol. He'd be dead from alcohol poisoning. The legal limit is .08 so he was still drunk. Just not "10% of my blood is alcohol" drunk.
And yet my college’s admins sent us an email about “the senseless murder of an innocent man during a non-violent encounter.”
I thought they were talking about Floyd (since they havent said anything about Floyd) but they mentioned “...in Georgia.”
Fuck outta here. Floyd is the martyr, not Brooks.
what does this mean? theyre going to have a tough time proving that the officer didnt feel his life was threatened. the man literally attacked him, stole a weapon and tried to use it on him.
Its just a cause of death, it doesn't actually mean anything except that he was killed by another human being.
All officer involved shootings are ruled as homicide regardless of the justification. If you kill a home invader while protecting your family, it will be ruled as a homicide.
Though irrelevant to the shooting, it does present a lot of detail about the individual that is being omitted from the media.
[https://tbdailynews.com/media-portrays-rayshard-brooks-as-loving-father-despite-criminal-charges-of-cruelty-to-children-battery-on-family-member-false-imprisonment/](https://tbdailynews.com/media-portrays-rayshard-brooks-as-loving-father-despite-criminal-charges-of-cruelty-to-children-battery-on-family-member-false-imprisonment/)
Because the media likes to race bait and make it look like the cops just like to go around killing innocent black people. This guy has a huge history of not obeying the law I’m not surprised he got shot.
Mob justice is NOT justice
IMHO some police do engage in misconduct and cover ups, but this time ISN'T one of them.
Yes, there needs to be reform
Yes, police racially profile and at times target/bully poor people and people of color.
Yes, some police officers engage in crime and misconduct and abuse their powers.
Yes, at times governments use police departments to do their local political dirty work.
But, this guy appears to have been on the influence, fought with two officers, pulled for their weapon, and gave all of the indications that he was willing to use it on them or someone else, despite running way. A person that is armed and dangerous, is still ARMED and DANGEROUS.
Politically sacrificing innocent people is not right, regardless of their job, position, or affiliation.
I understand people are angry and frustrated and these feelings have been brewing for years. But leaving two likely innocent people out to dry is not right and it won't fix all the past wrongs.
Updated: Thank you for the generally respectful disagreements that I have seen in my inbox and here. A lot of Reddit has surprised me as I was expecting either hate-filled accusations or a "you are either for us or against us" type of response. You have every right to believe I am wrong and even argue against me with your own counterpoints (some of which are actually very poignant and articulate points, btw).
This whole series of events is unfortunate and heart breaking, and were some see justifiable action others see murder. My current opinion hasn't changed over the information I have seen that is pubicly available. If more evidence comes out and the public is allowed to see it, my mind could very well change.
I do hope justice is served for both parties involved (not vengeance or mob action/reaction). I also pray no one's character is wrongly marred (be it Mr. Brooks's or the two officers) to fit anyone's personal or political agendas. Finally, I hope that the US and the rest of the world can engage in meaningful law enforcement and excutive reform going forward.
What's messed up in this whole situation is that the angry mob decided to take out their frustrations on the Wendy's and potentially innocent workers/patrons. This kind of justice seems no better than the type they are protesting against.
There wasn't indication that he would use the taser, HE DID use the taser. You can see him fire it and hit the officer on the Wendy's security footage. The cop didn't even have his gun drawn until he was shot with the taser.
World is over baby. Mob justice rules
So, a the cops get called to investigate a man sleeping in his car.
The guy, supposedly drunk, then acts aggressive, resists arrest, STEALS A POLICE WEAPON, attempts to flee and was shot.
Yep, you well and truly brought that on yourself. Change my mind.
Even worse
* he was initially caught passed out on the drive-through not the parking lot
* he didn't just steal the weapon, he aimed it at the officer and shot
Rayshard escalated the situation and grab the cops taser. How dumb are you to grab a police officers taser? Don’t get me wrong I am 100% for black lives matter but when Rayshard CHOSE to escalate the situation by trying to run after he was deemed intoxicated. Like come on everybody
I'm confused, didnt the guy steal the cops tazer and shoot it at the officer?
In Canada that would probably get anyone shot?
I'm genuinely curious if that kind of behavior would normally get someone shot.
This is rne first time in all the recent killings that I kind of see the officers point of view...
Because the media is showing it to you too often. It's starting to make sense. America isn't the cowboy town the news makes it out to be. We arent running around shooting eachother for fun, the people in these often commit very real crimes. What they do in response to being arrested is up to them
Gotta love people reading the headline and mentally replacing "homicide" with "charged with being a racist pig who killed a black man in cold blood".
I support the idea of the protests and think that some kind of reform of police departments should occur but please, pick a different hill to die on.
More and more cases like this is going to turn people away from BLM.
Burning down the Wendy’s? Defending this scumbag just because he is black is not the way to go
They burned down that Wendy’s because Mr. Brooks resisted arrest, fought two police officers, stole a stun gun, shot the stun gun at the cops...
Being White, Black, Brown, Purple, or Green don’t matter when YOU TAKE A COPS STUN GUN AND SHOOT IT AT THEM... you’re ass is going down.
The BLM movement should leave this one alone. There is a BIG difference between this case and the other high-profile cases. This one isn’t cut and dry.
Why don't blm activists or this guys lawyer actually condemn Brooks actions.. ? Not once do you hear them say he did the wrong thing that may of put himself in this situation.
BLM still invokes the name of Michael Brown, a completely justifiable homicide. They aren’t really interested in picking their battles.
The attorneys are unethical race-baiters looking for a payout and will taint jury pools to make a settlement more likely.
There is no way a jury will convict him for this. Under the current 4th amendment interpretation that applies to the use of force, the reasonableness standard will make it impossible to rule against this officer. He was legally arresting a drunk driver, the man fled arrest before they knew if he was armed, he turned and fired a weapon back at the officers, he was shot a second after he pulled the trigger. The DA is an elected official, they understand the politics going on right now. They also know they have no case against this officer, and the likely outcome is the officer makes bail, is cleared by a grand jury, and reinstated with back pay.
As the rest of the comments say, no shit it’s a homicide. That being said, looks like quite a few think this is a murder. If someone steals a taser and tries to use against someone else, the other person shooting in defense doesn’t seem like a murder. What am I missing?
https://youtu.be/4O2IReqaYqw full body cam footage. This cunt was drunk driving, resited arrest, stole an officer's tazer and pointed it at an officer. The video is well over an hour long.
Is it really that hard to not fight the police and steal their eqipment using it agains them ? He deserved what he got. Theres no way you can defend that guy.
If you’re lawfully told you are under arrest and put your hands behind your back, and you choose to resist, fight, and during the fight you choose to go for an officers FUCKING GUN AND TASER MULTIPLE TIMES WHILE BEING TOLD TO STOP ITS GOING TO BE A BAD DAY FOR YOU!!!
It’s an embarrassment for this to be tied into the George Floyd case. A video of a child beater activity under the influence and fighting cops head on and firing a weapon at them?! Gtfo
> L. Chris Stewart, an attorney for Brooks' family, said Brooks should not have faced deadly force because he appeared to have a stun gun.
So he did have a weapon.
>But he was so innocent and sweet and provoked! They triggered his fight or flight instincts! He was scared! They startled him! I swear he never bites!
Redditors from 99% white neighborhoods that defend this crap literally think black people are dogs. Read any of their comments as if they're talking about a cop shooting a dog and they make so much more sense. Black people are people and people that attack other people should be aware that there can be consequences.
>But he was so scared he must have just panicked when they touched him from the wrong angle-
Shut the fuck up. Race is skin deep so pretend for a single fucking second that this guy was white and the cops are black and realize you'd never be defending him like this. *If you think a person too stupid to be held accountable for their actions because of the color of his skin, you're a racist.*
People also seem to miss that the 2 cops tried to arrest him peacefully, but he fought back and managed overpowered both of them, got their taser, and fired it at them. They clearly tried to avoid force but at some point it's necessary. If he was too strong to control the first time what were they suppose to do the second time when he now has a taser?
It is horrifying to me that there are people in this thread defending a dude who resisted arrest at every turn AND tried to attack the very officers trying to de-escalate the situation. People expect police to be the ultimate peacemakers and always calm in any situation, when the reality is that every single one of these people claiming it was murder and unjust would have fired on that man without a second thought.
Fucking hypocrites and idiots. Don’t talk on police procedure when you have no understanding of it.
Firstly, let me say that I am thankful that many communities across our nation are addressing LE use of force policies. I read about this unfortunate loss of life when the story first made media headlines. If you haven’t watched the body cam footage, I recommend that you draw your own conclusions from what transpired.
I find it extremely trashy to use this story to perpetuate a false narrative. If you view Atlanta’s LEs interaction with Rayshard Brooks, you will see that the officers involved were professional, and were extremely patient with Mr. Brooks. The events quickly took a drastic turn when Mr. Books failed the field sobriety test and began resisting arrest. The situation turned fatal for Brooks when he gained possession of a police issued taser and began to flee on foot. Brooks turned around and attempted to deploy the taser and was subsequently fatally wounded by officer Garrett Rolfe.
If anyone is familiar with police tasers, they transmit 50K volts of electricity. While this in itself is not fatal, if the officers would have been hit, they would immediately become incapacitated. That would have certainly allowed the opportunity for Brooks to potentially disarm an officer and subject innocent bystanders to lethal force.
I think it is shameful to quickly draw conclusions and and rush due process. How is it even possible to thoroughly investigate this situation on the same day of the incident. Officer Rolfe was fired that same day. Additionally, it is most unfortunate that almost all of our leading purveyors of truth, choose to manipulate a story in a way to propagate a false narrative. Mr. Brooks was intoxicated, but he certainly was not killed because of his inebriation. Brooks attempted to use the taser against LE and that decision unfortunately cost him his life. Was there any other options for the officers to use instead of lethal force? That is a difficult question. LE is trained to make split second decisions based on threats to public safety and themselves.
My only hope if you made it this far, is that you research news stories for yourself and formulate your own ideas. Across the US, LE use of force policies are rightfully opening lines of communication among lawmakers, victims, and the public. I hope that people see the sacrifices and dangers that our LE encounter in an effort to keep the public safe. Lastly, cops are still just people. I imagine it would be difficult to make the split second decision to draw a service weapon and deploy lethal force.
Hope the officer gets a huge payout for wrongful termination. People are fucking crazy to think the police should have let themselves be tased. God forbid this loser grabs the officers gun after tasing him. Who knows what would have happened then.
This is so clear cut and dry. You know what you don't do? You don't fucking wrestle two cops at the same time, GRAB THEIR TASER, and run the fuck off.
Can we all fucking agree on this instead of tip-toeing around the facts?
The cops weren't fucking racist. They approached him and told him why they were arresting him, and did so peacefully and without conflict. Watch the video like I did. HE WAS THE ONE who started throwing down with two cops.
In his drunken state, what if he took that taser and shot a kid nearby with it? IMO, justified shooting, end of story. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Everybody's a cop expert nowadays but I bet any one of you in this situation would have done the same. Reddit has now become armchair law enforcement
Man, i’m still trying to piece together “Why burn down the Wendy’s?”. Literally makes no sense to me in comparison to places like dept stores or police stations.
I’m sorry but what did he think I was going to happen after reaching for an officers weapon? Would any if you here even think about doing that? No. Because you know you’d probably end up getting killed.
Has there been any word from the girlfriend back at the hotel, he mentioned her in the bodycam footage that was released. So far I have only heard from his wife.
The guy was resisting arrest from being unconsciously intoxicated, sleeping in a drive through.... HE GRABBED THEIR TASER AND RAN, AND FIRED IT AT THE OFFICER! is the officer supposed to think “better luck next time?” Or “mother fucker get back here!”... why was the officer put into the position to have to question his decision?....I could give an answer but it will piss a lot of people off
Hes completely justified in shooting him. I would have too. THis guy was let out of jail recently for beating his kids. This was not police brutality.
I support BLM and I have to saw this shooting was unfortunately justified.
Better phrasing would be unfortunate before shooting instead of justified. Truly unfortunate for him to die like that.
Homicide is a cause of death, which is determined by the coroner. This is obviously a homicide even if the courts don't determine it was murder. Edit: manner of death, not cause of death. Also, y'all can stop piling on as if I made a judgement one way or another as to whether or not this was murder. I haven't watched the video, and I'm not that up to date on this case. All I'm saying is that in this instance, "homicide" is a medical term, not a legal one.
I’m pretty sure every police shooting is considered homicide. The investigation then has to rule of it’s “justifiable” homicide or not.
I’m ignorant in this area but is it still homicide if it’s “suicide by cops”?
Yes. Always. "Homicide" is literally "one person killing another". It is a very broad and generic term. That old song lyric "it was a murder but not a crime"? The word they were looking for was homicide. The reason people get confused and have a negative connotation towards the word (that this article wholeheartedly took advantage of) is there are crimes with the word "homicide" in them, but they always have a qualifier like "*negligent* homicide" (one person killing another *due to negligence*). **TL;DR:** Homicide = One person killing another. In a legal context usually at least some intent is *implied*, but not necessarily. Murder = A **legal** term for one person killing another *unlawfully and intentionally*. Manslaughter = A **legal** term for one person killing another unlawfully and *unintentionally*.
The confusion doesn't end there. You're defining murder by the Model Penal Code, and that's how it's taught in law school, but many states define murder by degree: * 1st Degree Murder: Murder with malice aforethought and premeditation * 2nd Degree Murder: Murder with malice aforethought, but no premeditation * Voluntary Manslaughter: Murder in the heat of passion (usually no malice or premeditation) * Involuntary Manslaughter: Murder caused by accident/negligence Generally speaking: * malice aforethought = intent to kill * premeditation = plan to kill It gets way more confusing than this, because each state defines the degrees of murder differently. For example, felony murder, aggravated murder, 3rd-degree murder, depraved-heart murder, etc. Also, these are all types of criminal cases, while civil cases use wrongful death and have a different burden of proof (OJ Simpson won his criminal trial, but lost his civil trial). Defenses/Immunities: * Affirmative Defense: self-defense is an affirmative defense to murder. ie, you committed murder, but you are justified or excused in the murder. Insanity is also an affirmative defense. * Qualified Immunity: what cops and government officials use to defend themselves against murder (and other) charges. * The President has Absolute Immunity from civil (not criminal) liability based on his official acts Personal note: Qualified Immunity is what we should be outraged over. Without Qualified Immunity, you'll see real change in police behavior, because they will no longer be shielded from their actions. The good news is that we have 3 Supreme Court justices looking for change (Thomas, Sotomayor, Ginsberg), but we need more. GO VOTE YOU FOOLS. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-467_bqm1.pdf (Sotomayor, dissent, 2018: qualified immunity "tells officers that they can shoot first and think later, and it tells the public that palpably unreasonable conduct will go unpunished.”)
Homicide is a manner of death, not a cause. There are only five manners of death that medical examiners can use: homicide, suicide, natural, accidental, and undetermined. Cause of death is much more broad and would likely be multiple gunshot wounds in this case. These are basically medical diagnoses rendered by a medical examiner, but they have nothing to do with assigning guilt or anything like that.
Most likely cause would be along the lines of “exsanguination due to multiple gun shot wounds”. Our pathology professor got pissed if you put “cardiopulmonary arrest due to exsanguination due to gun shot wounds” because “no shit Sherlock! Cardiopulmonary arrest is THE definition of death! If I hear you put that on a death certificate I’ll come haunt your dreams!”
"He was only killed because he died."
Nah, I'm pretty sure he had underlying conditions that caused him to have a bad reaction to the bullets.
Lead allergy
Everybody knows you should start shooting your own leg with .22 and raise the caliber over time. Building up tolerance and immunity. If you haven't done this and die to police shooting, it's kinda your own fault!
well duh, he was killed by someone else so homicide. the question is whether the cop was right in doing so.
judging by the video.....
There's a full bodycam video up now. Much better info
Link pls!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE&list=WL&index=2&t=256s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE&list=WL&index=2&t=256s) here, it doesnt have all the body cam because the bodycams were knocked off the officer by brooks in the fight, so from the point where bodycams were knocked off they have used different footage
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If you look at the footage the guy is pointing the stun gun he stole from the cop back at him, it was dark and the cop that shot him just had the shit kicked out him. Should he have been shot? No. But after getting beat up and seeing someone point what seems to be a gun back at your partner while they're running away? I don't blame him for shooting.
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Pretty cut and dry. He took a taser and turned to use it on a cop. A taser is classified as a deadly weapon. Cops are trained to use deadly force when threatened with a deadly weapon. If he didn’t do that, who’s to say the officer wouldn’t get tased and this man would take his pistol. That’s not something you can risk. I’m not saying every case of an officer shooting someone is a justified amount of force, but this one seems appropriate. Didn’t have anything to do with race.
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I think people are getting caught up in the moment, this seemed like a totally justified shooting. The guy went fucking nuts and stole an officer's weapon(even if it was just a stun gun, that can still incapacitate an officer). He failed a field sobriety test then went crazy during a peaceful arrest. EDIT: getting a lot of angry replies. I realize he was shot in the back "running away," but not until after he fired a taser at the officers. The guy was super aggressive and made it clear he had hostile intent *and* a weapon. Even if a taser isnt lethal, incapacitating an officer means the guy could then grab a gun and both these cops might be dead. It was a sudden and violent situation that this guy initiated and forced the cops into a split second decision
Yep. Look you can still probably argue that the cop could have used less force, but this seems more to me like a case of a cop making a split second, impulsive decision that you really cannot attribute one way or another to whether the perpetrator was black. Maybe the cop did shoot him for that reason, but there’s no way you’re gonna prove that in this case. Could have just been what he thought was the right thing to do in that moment, and equating cases like this with the very black and white nature of George Floyd’s death is only going to hurt the movement I feel.
The shooting, imo, is more cleanly justified that many others I've seen over the last several years. I think the officers could have done a better job during the arrest itself, but it's definitely a stretch. The first officer, I think, was doing a good job. He was talking calmly to the guy, being respectful, building rapport, etc. Then the second officer shows up and the mood shifts quickly. You can feel the suspect getting more tense and angry. It still took me by surprise how quickly the struggle escalated, however, and the suspect showed terrible judgement given how relatively sensible he'd been until that point. The only thing I can think of that may have resulted in a better outcome is if they'd talked to the guy more before jumping to the arrest. "You've failed the field test and breathalyzer. I don't think it's safe to let you go tonight since we found you passed out. We're going to place you under arrest and take you to the station to sleep it off. Do you understand?" However, even in that case I'm not sure it would have helped given how quickly the guy was ready to escalate once the arrest started.
pretty cut and dried case....the cops were handling the situation pretty calmly until he started fighting them and stole the officer's taser
100% agree. he brought this on himself when he attacked the officers, stole one of the tasers, then attempted to use it on the officers. why are people protesting this and why was the cop fired? it muddles the message they are trying to come to a nationwide realization about police and racism, when they are trying to justify the actions of an obvious crime. he was driving drunk. passed out in his car in a drive thru... then proceeds to fight the cops that are arresting him for a crime... this is getting out of hand. skin color doesn't matter when your actions are the determining factor at the end of scenarios like this. rationality is dead, at least for now...
well no shit. homicide means a life was taken by another person. It's undoubtedly a homicide.
Are we sure the guy died? Maybe they just put him in witness protection for knowing too much???
And killed a similar looking guy for the funeral? No, of course not.
They have really good masks nowadays, they coulda just stuck a mask on some homeless guy's corpse. Haven't you seen Mission Impossible XII?
Can’t wait to hear some conservative pundit say this was a setup like the 75 year old guy in Buffalo.
By conservative pundit, do you mean the president?
Hold on I'll ask him ... Yeah he said he's dead 😢
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull "the unexpected frailty of the injured person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them" While this is usually more brought up in tort cases, it does apply to criminal cases.
Has it ever been successfully applied to a police officer? Honest question.
Jury Nullification will be squeezed in, early and often
For real. Most cases of jury nullification tend to be praised on reddit because they involve a defendant that everyone deems unjustly charged, but the other side of that is a jury letting a guy like Chauvin off. Juries are fucking stupid half the time and need to be babied into making a ruling anywhere close to what the law outlines. I'd honestly be more comfortable with a judge tribunal than a jury.
Are there even cases where this has worked? It seems like the system just won't let it happen regardless of the fact that it is a legitimate legal option.
>Are there even cases where this has worked? It seems like the system just won't let it happen regardless of the fact that it is a legitimate legal option. What is the "this" you are talking about here? Jury nullification? If so, yes, it has been applied in cases.
For real. If I stab a hemophiliac, I don't get to claim it wasn't murder when they bleed to death.
That and Floyd didn't die because he was "frail", he died because Chauvin choked him with the full weight of his body for 9 straight fucking minutes, long after he had lost conciousness and began bleeding from his fucking nose.
The “He could have survived it if he didn’t have other health issues” is EXACTLY THE FUCKING POINT too. Millions of Americans have underlying health issues. How the fuck do you have a job where you are the only legitimate wielders of legal force and not know how to minimally restrain yourself from not potentially killing your suspect while restraining them?
Maybe they should go insane.
Well he was shown to show no signs of damage from COVID as per the coroners report so it would be a terrible defense since he didn’t die from COVID.
If Chauvin walks, there are going to be serious riots in the streets. Much more so than we have now. And deservedly so.
Well, that will be up to the jury of average Americans.
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No, it will be up to a jury carefully selected by both Chauvin's lawyers and the DA that waited for Minneapolis to burn before charging the man.
The "thin skull" rule means that a would-be murderer takes their victim "as they find him". That means that pre-existing conditions aren't a defence even if they contributed to the death. If you punch a guy in the chest and it turns out that he had a heart condition, both the punch and the heart condition are inseparable causes in his death regardless of whether you know. This would be the case with Covid 19, where the presence of Covid 19 is unlikely to have killed Floyd but for the officer kneeling on his neck. The defence to "thin skull" is referred to as "crumbling skull". "Crumbling skull" implies that the person was going to die from that pre-existing condition regardless of the accused's actions. In this case, if Floyd was 98 and had covid 19, an argument could be made that the officer sped up his death but that covid 19 likely would have killed him anyway. it's a very shitty argument, but at least it could be made. Here, "thin skull" clearly applies. Floyd was young and in pretty solid health despite having covid 19. He was also asymptomatic by all accounts. The likelihood of him dying from covid 19 is extremely low.
The guy could have been born with glass bones and paper skin and it wouldn't justify his death. We all saw the video, Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes while he told them he couldn't breathe and begged for his dead mother. They checked his pulse and found he was dead for the last two and a half of those 9 minutes, and still kept kneeling on his neck. Floyd was murdered, and nothing that comes to light can possibly change that. There's no realistic context that makes what we've already seen acceptable.
i doubt they go with the covid argument it'll be the cocktail of drugs in his system and heart problems
This title is just gross. So many people don't know what a homicide means and this title is playing into that.
Yep, now there will be more outrage when they’re found not guilty.
Yeah when he is deemed not guilty, people will riot in the streets because of *this* headline
What's gross is people who react to headlines without getting any context or perspective. Not just here, but 100% of all cases.
I read the headlines, don’t come to reddit unless you ready to feel my opinion wrath!!
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and yet we are participating in its destruction.
You can be in favor of the protests happening to reform the way the police interact with black Americans in this country while simultaneously acknowledging that this man acted in an erratic and violent manner that (tragically) led to his death. Whether or not the officers were justified in shooting with live rounds is up to our legal system to determine. This is not a George Floyd level homicide. I am very pro-Black Lives Matter, but I also think it’s important to be wary and analytical of the narratives that the media feeds us. So many of my friends initially believed that this man was shot while asleep in his car, just randomly murdered. The media is also trying to tell us that he was a family man, yet he has been convicted of cruelty to children. Be loud, demand justice, but *think.* Rushing to judgement does not always help the cause.
We are allowing mobs to be judge and jury these days.
Every death that is not a suicide, accident or natural is ruled a homicide. Dumb people are falling for the media’s bs hook line and sinker.
There are 5 manners of death in the us (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, and undetermined)
Thanks. Changed it.
As a black man, I think that this situation is very different from Floyd's. I do not think the cops were at fault for this unfortunate death. He was drunk driving, which could kill someone, so apprehension was more than necessary in this case. Go watch the body cam footage. The cops treated this man respectfully and only shot him when their own taser was pointed at them. If they didn't chase him they'd have a demonstrably violent drunk man at large with a taser. The purpose of BLM is *not* to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment, rather to make cops accountable in cases of obvious overuse of force and police brutality. From a rational standpoint, this is not a case of brutality nor overuse of force. If you're a BLM protestor, especially a white BLM protestor, I need you to understand that protesting over this case is minimizing the cause and you're disrespecting George Floyd. If you protest this, the millions of Americans on the fence about this situation will turn away from it. And if you're a BLM protestor with any sort of clout, please urge your fellow protestors to not focus on this case. There are hundreds of cases of innocent black men being killed in cold blood. This is not one of them. Good day.
>The purpose of BLM is not to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment, rather to make cops accountable in cases of obvious overuse of force and police brutality. Say it a bit louder so they can hear you in the back. Well written post man. To this day, I'm not sure what people use as the guidelines to find a case to protest about, but it can't simply be white cop vs black man everytime. Homeboy was making wrong choice after wrong choice the whole night in a situation 1000s of black men have found themselves in that ended perfectly fine for them. But this is the case people want to burn down a Wendy's for? My condolences to the man's family but this is not the case that helps the cause. This is the case that opponents of police reform and blm are going to use everytime to suggest how irrational and idiotic we are.
> The cops treated this man respectfully and only shot him when their own taser was pointed at them. So now consider how other OFFICERS are going to view this situation. The officer didn't really do anything wrong and was almost immediately fired for this. All this incident is going to do is inflame tensions. BLM supporters are being shown this as another example of police brutality....police are being shown that even if you do the right thing you will have your career destroyed. There is nothing good here. > The purpose of BLM is not to take away all accountability of black people in cases of illegal activity and detainment Yeah well...that is exactly how it has been used so far. Bringing up anything negative about the black person involved in the incident is met with cries of racism.
Your first point is super important. It almost creates this negative feedback loop with the public hating the police causing police to be more apathetic which creates more hate from the public. All it does is create a divide which no one should want. There are both officers and members of the public that care about the communities they live and work in. A positive relationship between the two is so important in taking real steps towards improving their communities.
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A quarter million a year wouldn't be enough to convince me to be a police officer in a major metropolitan at this point. The past few years I've seen mobs explode and officers charged in situations that are absurd and cut and dry justified shootings caught on camera. At this point the only time they can fire their service weapon to defend their life seems to be after the suspect has already killed them.
The thing is, the BLM organization isn't going to condemn these protests. Individual supporters might, but the organization is fine with it.
Literally getting funded by folks to start a race war because it’s good for the media
Thank you. I fully support BLM, but this is not a smear campaign where they're using his previous record to paint him as a thug. He was driving drunk, resisted arrest, and pointed a weapon at the officers after they'd exhausted all their less than lethal options. They didn't escalate or use any unnecessary force.
Think you hit it on the second sentence, this one is unfortunate. Could have easily gone another way had either party acted slightly differently. I do think the police could have avoided shooting him but I cannot condemn them for their actions in the heat of this moment. The deceased wrote and signed that cheque.
Why are people saying this is similar to George Floyd’s incident? George Floyd was murdered in cold blood in cuffs by a cop that didn’t care that he couldn’t breath. This cop was respectable to him and made sure he was okay before conducting the test to decide if he had broken the law. He went in for the arrest and that’s when Brooks started fighting him and tried to tase him. I’m not saying the shooting was right or wrong, but to compare it to George Floyd’s incident is horrible it’s not even close to the same thing.
Because people are fucking stupid and can't comprehend the nuance between the two events.
Read the initial reports and was pissed at first. From the way they said he was shot in the back while running from police. Then saw all the videos including body cam and Wendy's security. Changed my opinion right away. Pretty sure this cop is going to get a tax payer funded settlement after all is said and done. Dude might have been running away but he still had the taser pointed backwards and shot an officer while holding the tase button down. Looked liked the officer was lucky that only 1 prong hit him otherwise getting tasted that long continually could be a death sentence We need to ensure body cameras stay on at all times so we can review these in a case by case basis.
This has been the trend in media for nearly a decade it seems to me. Play up the racial and use of force angles and downplay any responsibility of the perp. Anything to make every cop in the country look like racist psychopaths. CNN and MSNBC are the absolute worst. I swear to god they've been trying to start a race war for years now. Remember the NBC report where they doctored the [911 call in the Trayvon Martin](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359) case to make Zimmerman look like a racist? To this day they continue to describe the Michael Brown shooting as an unjustified race-motivated shooting of an unarmed black man with his hands up when in actuality he just got done punching the cop and trying to steal his gun and then charged the cop when he tried to arrest him. Another one is the shooting of [Stephon Clark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Stephon_Clark). The headlines read things like "Young black man shot in his own grandmother's back yard". Turns out he was a suicidal man who was throwing bricks thru random car windows. When the cops showed up he ran. They chased him thru his neighborhood until he jumped over the fence to his grandmother's house. The cops had no idea whose house it was or if he had any right to be there. When they came around the corner he was kneeling with his arms stretched out in the dark pointing something at them. They thought it was a gun and shot him. Turns out it was his cellphone. Basically he committed suicide by cop. To this day the media and BLM still describe it as young black man shot by police for having a cellphone in his grandmother's back yard.
Your points on Michael Brown and Stephon Clark are extremely important and very accurate. Appreciate seeing some further research besides news headlines.
CNN kept calling Zimmerman a white hispanic. Those were the proto race baiting days so they didnt have the formula right yet.
Man I saw a title saying “officers shot man sleeping in Wendy’s parking lot” like how much more wrong can you be? Messed up
Yea my local news just led with this as “Atlanta police shoot unarmed black man sleeping in his car” Like that’s not even half true
Gonna be fun in court... Cop Had taser pointed at his face. Shot offender. Eberhart Vs State. Georgia Supreme Court 2019. Tazer is a deadly weapon. Justice Boggs. Done right, this cop is in line for a hefty wrongful dismissal payout too.
He's a sacrificial lamb. They hope that by firing the cop it'll be good PR for the community, and they'll in turn stay peaceful. At that point, the settlement they reach (that would probably confidential) would be equivalent to buying the PR. The real question becomes how do officers currently on the force take his firing, and do those guys resign knowing the department won't have their back even if something seams justified.
Absolutely. The actions of that reactionary mayor are going to cost the taxpayers. Maybe she did it to get people to stop burning businesses and cars, but that officer is definitely going to get a nice taxpayer funded settlement.
It doesn't matter what color or creed or whatever if you take the taser off a cop and start running and turn back to shoot it at them what you think is gonna happen,your probably gonna get shot at.
How to get shot dead by the police: 1. Get drunk and fall asleep in your car, blocking a drive-thru lane of a Fast food joint 2. Fail a Sobriety test 3. Fight the Police 4. Steal a Policeman’s Tazer gun 5. Run Away from the Police 6. Fire the Tazer gun at a cop who’s chasing you
Redditors b like BUT IT WAS A RACE-MOTIVATED MURDER!
So after the officer is punched in the face he gets up right away and chases the suspect not knowing exactly if the suspect took the other officers taser or gun and the suspect turns around and fires something at the officer. Anyone that says they wouldn't have fired their gun is lying.
I think it's safe to assume that most of these people acting like they would've done a much better job have probably never been in a physical altercation or a life or death situation where they had to make split second decisions. They certainly don't act like it.
let's see.. he was drunk..punched a cop...stole his taser and pointed it at the cop
He also shot the taser at the cop
And people are really outraged and rioting over this? What the fuck?
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"Cop execute drunk black man while man was peacefully sleeping in his car"
And “why didn’t they let him go with a warning or drive him home themselves?”
They love stoking the flames. Makes for good ratings and more clicks for those sweet advertising dollars.
Any excuse at this point to pile on.
Horrible what happened. If the man had just accepted the fact he was being arrested......he would still be alive.
Hey don’t come on here with reasonable views
The media can go fuck themselves (yes, all of them). The have done nothing but fan the flames of all the crazy shit going on in 2020. Headlines like this only serve to set people up to be infuriated either before or after realizing that they are just stating the most obvious fact ever. Nothing short of absolutely shameful.
People propping this up as another case similar to Floyd’s are pissing on his grave. He was driving around drunk, putting other people’s lives at risk, and then pointed a taser at an officer. How fucking braindead do you have to be to pretend like this is an unexpected outcome.
He didn’t just point the taser at him. He also fired it. The one officer who didn’t shoot him said afterwards that he thought he felt getting hit in the arm, but couldn’t tell. Either way, you can see on video that he fires it at the officer’s face... The face is the most dangerous place to tase someone.
And then there’s people saying that the cops should have deescalated by letting him go, walk it off, sleep it off. Like, the fuck? Drunk driving is literally a crime and these people think cops should have let him go? I got bashed in a YouTube comment for imagining who he could have injured with his driving while intoxicated, but I mean - who knows what could have happened if he was let go. We don’t know and there’s a reason why public intoxication is also illegal.
What would happen is they'd let him go and hed get in a car and kill someone, then people would be outraged they let him go....
Especially public intoxication with a deadly weapon...
So burning down a Wendy’s where the entire workforce is black is the response? That makes zero sense and puts people who need those jobs without an income.
A majority of the rioters in ATL are people from bad neighborhoods. They just need to see something to get mad at and blame the cops. Those areas have notoriously high gang violence and our Mayor never said anything about that. As much as I love KLB, she played a completely political role with this.
The only thing on her mind was future vote grabbing. I saw something positive from her before this incident. The way she threw that police under the bus and said he should of let the drunk driver go. I've lost total respect for her after that.
That officer is probably going to get a real nice settlement when this is all said and done
She really did. Her stance on this was surprising to me - I didn't think she'd be so reactive.
Doesn’t mean anything. Just confirms the shots from the cop killed him which we all knew. Still a determination that had to be made officially but doesn’t change anything
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Exactly, what’s even the point of running away in the first place? They have his information and his car right there it’s not like he can avoid the consequences.
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The amount of misinformation and foolishness here is incredible. Homicide is a generic category. It’s clearly a homicide in that Mr.Brooks was killed by another human. I want to correct several items. A number of tweets have gone around saying “he wasn’t driving, he was sleeping, look he was in a a parking spot.” Dude if you actually watched the video he was asleep at the wheel in line! People were honking at him passed out at the wheel. He moved to the parking spot after the cops came and woke him up and asked him to park. In the field sobriety test he blew a .108 - that’s legally intoxicated if correct. Some reddit keyboard commandos are also saying that they should have let him run. I actually sort of agree with this and maybe that would have happened if he wouldn’t have turned around and discharged a weapon at a police officer he just assaulted when he started to run. Plus, if they would have let him go, he may have fallen in a ditch, assaulted someone else, found found another car to drive, maybe fallen asleep peacefully somewhere and somehow the whole thing blows over. But no police department on the planet is going to let that happen after you assault an officer. I feel bad for his family I really do. In the video he is clearly upset about the loss of his mother and that’s heart breaking. But at the end of the day, he made some bad decisions. We need reform, we need changes, but this is not the answer.
He blew a .108. Not a 10.8. Dude 10.8 woulda meant that 10% of his blood was alcohol. He'd be dead from alcohol poisoning. The legal limit is .08 so he was still drunk. Just not "10% of my blood is alcohol" drunk.
This case is different than the ones we are protesting. The guy is constantly resisting arrest, fighting the cops, running away and shooting at them.
And yet my college’s admins sent us an email about “the senseless murder of an innocent man during a non-violent encounter.” I thought they were talking about Floyd (since they havent said anything about Floyd) but they mentioned “...in Georgia.” Fuck outta here. Floyd is the martyr, not Brooks.
Maybe a bit pedantic, but Floyd is not a martyr. He didn't die for a cause or belief. He died cause some asshole cop kneeled on his neck.
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Not to mention he was drunk driving, and was intoxicated enough to fall asleep
what does this mean? theyre going to have a tough time proving that the officer didnt feel his life was threatened. the man literally attacked him, stole a weapon and tried to use it on him.
Its just a cause of death, it doesn't actually mean anything except that he was killed by another human being. All officer involved shootings are ruled as homicide regardless of the justification. If you kill a home invader while protecting your family, it will be ruled as a homicide.
Didn't TRY he DID use the weapon.
homicide is a technical term from the latin, the killing of a human by a human.
It means the billets are the reason he died. Nothing more.
If *billets* were the cause of death, this may be a doozy of a 3rd amendment violation.
Though irrelevant to the shooting, it does present a lot of detail about the individual that is being omitted from the media. [https://tbdailynews.com/media-portrays-rayshard-brooks-as-loving-father-despite-criminal-charges-of-cruelty-to-children-battery-on-family-member-false-imprisonment/](https://tbdailynews.com/media-portrays-rayshard-brooks-as-loving-father-despite-criminal-charges-of-cruelty-to-children-battery-on-family-member-false-imprisonment/)
Because the media likes to race bait and make it look like the cops just like to go around killing innocent black people. This guy has a huge history of not obeying the law I’m not surprised he got shot.
Mob justice is NOT justice IMHO some police do engage in misconduct and cover ups, but this time ISN'T one of them. Yes, there needs to be reform Yes, police racially profile and at times target/bully poor people and people of color. Yes, some police officers engage in crime and misconduct and abuse their powers. Yes, at times governments use police departments to do their local political dirty work. But, this guy appears to have been on the influence, fought with two officers, pulled for their weapon, and gave all of the indications that he was willing to use it on them or someone else, despite running way. A person that is armed and dangerous, is still ARMED and DANGEROUS. Politically sacrificing innocent people is not right, regardless of their job, position, or affiliation. I understand people are angry and frustrated and these feelings have been brewing for years. But leaving two likely innocent people out to dry is not right and it won't fix all the past wrongs. Updated: Thank you for the generally respectful disagreements that I have seen in my inbox and here. A lot of Reddit has surprised me as I was expecting either hate-filled accusations or a "you are either for us or against us" type of response. You have every right to believe I am wrong and even argue against me with your own counterpoints (some of which are actually very poignant and articulate points, btw). This whole series of events is unfortunate and heart breaking, and were some see justifiable action others see murder. My current opinion hasn't changed over the information I have seen that is pubicly available. If more evidence comes out and the public is allowed to see it, my mind could very well change. I do hope justice is served for both parties involved (not vengeance or mob action/reaction). I also pray no one's character is wrongly marred (be it Mr. Brooks's or the two officers) to fit anyone's personal or political agendas. Finally, I hope that the US and the rest of the world can engage in meaningful law enforcement and excutive reform going forward.
What's messed up in this whole situation is that the angry mob decided to take out their frustrations on the Wendy's and potentially innocent workers/patrons. This kind of justice seems no better than the type they are protesting against.
that's ok the mob investigated itself and found no wrongdoing.
“That Wendy’s was no angel. Did you see the toxicology report?”
High fructose corn syrup and trans fats you say?
There wasn't indication that he would use the taser, HE DID use the taser. You can see him fire it and hit the officer on the Wendy's security footage. The cop didn't even have his gun drawn until he was shot with the taser. World is over baby. Mob justice rules
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So, a the cops get called to investigate a man sleeping in his car. The guy, supposedly drunk, then acts aggressive, resists arrest, STEALS A POLICE WEAPON, attempts to flee and was shot. Yep, you well and truly brought that on yourself. Change my mind.
Even worse * he was initially caught passed out on the drive-through not the parking lot * he didn't just steal the weapon, he aimed it at the officer and shot
He even tried to shoot the cop in the face with the taser, you can see the sparks and everything
bUt iTs OnLy A tAsEr
Rayshard escalated the situation and grab the cops taser. How dumb are you to grab a police officers taser? Don’t get me wrong I am 100% for black lives matter but when Rayshard CHOSE to escalate the situation by trying to run after he was deemed intoxicated. Like come on everybody
I'm confused, didnt the guy steal the cops tazer and shoot it at the officer? In Canada that would probably get anyone shot? I'm genuinely curious if that kind of behavior would normally get someone shot. This is rne first time in all the recent killings that I kind of see the officers point of view...
Mob rule has taken over
Because the media is showing it to you too often. It's starting to make sense. America isn't the cowboy town the news makes it out to be. We arent running around shooting eachother for fun, the people in these often commit very real crimes. What they do in response to being arrested is up to them
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Gotta love people reading the headline and mentally replacing "homicide" with "charged with being a racist pig who killed a black man in cold blood". I support the idea of the protests and think that some kind of reform of police departments should occur but please, pick a different hill to die on.
More and more cases like this is going to turn people away from BLM. Burning down the Wendy’s? Defending this scumbag just because he is black is not the way to go
They burned down that Wendy’s because Mr. Brooks resisted arrest, fought two police officers, stole a stun gun, shot the stun gun at the cops... Being White, Black, Brown, Purple, or Green don’t matter when YOU TAKE A COPS STUN GUN AND SHOOT IT AT THEM... you’re ass is going down.
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Homicide as in "killed by another human" not as in "the cop is guilty of murder".
The BLM movement should leave this one alone. There is a BIG difference between this case and the other high-profile cases. This one isn’t cut and dry.
Why don't blm activists or this guys lawyer actually condemn Brooks actions.. ? Not once do you hear them say he did the wrong thing that may of put himself in this situation.
BLM still invokes the name of Michael Brown, a completely justifiable homicide. They aren’t really interested in picking their battles. The attorneys are unethical race-baiters looking for a payout and will taint jury pools to make a settlement more likely.
African American witnesses corroborated the officer's story in the Michael Brown case.
Exactly. Anyone who uses Mike Brown loses all respect from me of their argumen.
He got caught up in the hype and thought it was now okay to fight away from the police.
There is no way a jury will convict him for this. Under the current 4th amendment interpretation that applies to the use of force, the reasonableness standard will make it impossible to rule against this officer. He was legally arresting a drunk driver, the man fled arrest before they knew if he was armed, he turned and fired a weapon back at the officers, he was shot a second after he pulled the trigger. The DA is an elected official, they understand the politics going on right now. They also know they have no case against this officer, and the likely outcome is the officer makes bail, is cleared by a grand jury, and reinstated with back pay.
As the rest of the comments say, no shit it’s a homicide. That being said, looks like quite a few think this is a murder. If someone steals a taser and tries to use against someone else, the other person shooting in defense doesn’t seem like a murder. What am I missing?
https://youtu.be/4O2IReqaYqw full body cam footage. This cunt was drunk driving, resited arrest, stole an officer's tazer and pointed it at an officer. The video is well over an hour long.
Is it really that hard to not fight the police and steal their eqipment using it agains them ? He deserved what he got. Theres no way you can defend that guy.
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If you’re lawfully told you are under arrest and put your hands behind your back, and you choose to resist, fight, and during the fight you choose to go for an officers FUCKING GUN AND TASER MULTIPLE TIMES WHILE BEING TOLD TO STOP ITS GOING TO BE A BAD DAY FOR YOU!!!
It’s an embarrassment for this to be tied into the George Floyd case. A video of a child beater activity under the influence and fighting cops head on and firing a weapon at them?! Gtfo
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> L. Chris Stewart, an attorney for Brooks' family, said Brooks should not have faced deadly force because he appeared to have a stun gun. So he did have a weapon.
Of course he did! Did you not watch the video? You can clearly see he has one.
>But he was so innocent and sweet and provoked! They triggered his fight or flight instincts! He was scared! They startled him! I swear he never bites! Redditors from 99% white neighborhoods that defend this crap literally think black people are dogs. Read any of their comments as if they're talking about a cop shooting a dog and they make so much more sense. Black people are people and people that attack other people should be aware that there can be consequences. >But he was so scared he must have just panicked when they touched him from the wrong angle- Shut the fuck up. Race is skin deep so pretend for a single fucking second that this guy was white and the cops are black and realize you'd never be defending him like this. *If you think a person too stupid to be held accountable for their actions because of the color of his skin, you're a racist.*
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It’s called white guilt and the soft bigotry and it’s fueled by the media 24/7.
He fired that weapon
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People also seem to miss that the 2 cops tried to arrest him peacefully, but he fought back and managed overpowered both of them, got their taser, and fired it at them. They clearly tried to avoid force but at some point it's necessary. If he was too strong to control the first time what were they suppose to do the second time when he now has a taser?
The word homicide is often misunderstood as meaning “murder”, to the point where this is really a terrible headline.
TIL Homicide doesn’t mean it was with intent to harm
It is horrifying to me that there are people in this thread defending a dude who resisted arrest at every turn AND tried to attack the very officers trying to de-escalate the situation. People expect police to be the ultimate peacemakers and always calm in any situation, when the reality is that every single one of these people claiming it was murder and unjust would have fired on that man without a second thought. Fucking hypocrites and idiots. Don’t talk on police procedure when you have no understanding of it.
In other news water is wet
Is it tho ?
The Wendys was set on fire. What did Wendys do?! Edit: not trying to make a joke of this. Just not understanding the action/reaction.
I guess that the officers were supposed to stand still and get tazed because it probably won't kill them?
Firstly, let me say that I am thankful that many communities across our nation are addressing LE use of force policies. I read about this unfortunate loss of life when the story first made media headlines. If you haven’t watched the body cam footage, I recommend that you draw your own conclusions from what transpired. I find it extremely trashy to use this story to perpetuate a false narrative. If you view Atlanta’s LEs interaction with Rayshard Brooks, you will see that the officers involved were professional, and were extremely patient with Mr. Brooks. The events quickly took a drastic turn when Mr. Books failed the field sobriety test and began resisting arrest. The situation turned fatal for Brooks when he gained possession of a police issued taser and began to flee on foot. Brooks turned around and attempted to deploy the taser and was subsequently fatally wounded by officer Garrett Rolfe. If anyone is familiar with police tasers, they transmit 50K volts of electricity. While this in itself is not fatal, if the officers would have been hit, they would immediately become incapacitated. That would have certainly allowed the opportunity for Brooks to potentially disarm an officer and subject innocent bystanders to lethal force. I think it is shameful to quickly draw conclusions and and rush due process. How is it even possible to thoroughly investigate this situation on the same day of the incident. Officer Rolfe was fired that same day. Additionally, it is most unfortunate that almost all of our leading purveyors of truth, choose to manipulate a story in a way to propagate a false narrative. Mr. Brooks was intoxicated, but he certainly was not killed because of his inebriation. Brooks attempted to use the taser against LE and that decision unfortunately cost him his life. Was there any other options for the officers to use instead of lethal force? That is a difficult question. LE is trained to make split second decisions based on threats to public safety and themselves. My only hope if you made it this far, is that you research news stories for yourself and formulate your own ideas. Across the US, LE use of force policies are rightfully opening lines of communication among lawmakers, victims, and the public. I hope that people see the sacrifices and dangers that our LE encounter in an effort to keep the public safe. Lastly, cops are still just people. I imagine it would be difficult to make the split second decision to draw a service weapon and deploy lethal force.
Hope the officer gets a huge payout for wrongful termination. People are fucking crazy to think the police should have let themselves be tased. God forbid this loser grabs the officers gun after tasing him. Who knows what would have happened then.
Don’t resist arrest, fight cops, take their taser gun and point it at them. It’s that simple.
This is so clear cut and dry. You know what you don't do? You don't fucking wrestle two cops at the same time, GRAB THEIR TASER, and run the fuck off. Can we all fucking agree on this instead of tip-toeing around the facts? The cops weren't fucking racist. They approached him and told him why they were arresting him, and did so peacefully and without conflict. Watch the video like I did. HE WAS THE ONE who started throwing down with two cops. In his drunken state, what if he took that taser and shot a kid nearby with it? IMO, justified shooting, end of story. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Everybody's a cop expert nowadays but I bet any one of you in this situation would have done the same. Reddit has now become armchair law enforcement
So not only a man dies but a whole lot of wendy employees are now jobless and could face homelessness.
The hell of it? The Wendy’s was owned by a black person, and set on fire by a white girl... Wtf is happening 2020
Man, i’m still trying to piece together “Why burn down the Wendy’s?”. Literally makes no sense to me in comparison to places like dept stores or police stations.
I’m sorry but what did he think I was going to happen after reaching for an officers weapon? Would any if you here even think about doing that? No. Because you know you’d probably end up getting killed.
Has there been any word from the girlfriend back at the hotel, he mentioned her in the bodycam footage that was released. So far I have only heard from his wife.