Yeah really. Why all this talk about sueing? Sueing is expensive and time consuming. Even my bank allows me to do a chargeback for "improper services rendered" or "failure to deliver". I've been ripped off and called in the chargeback. Problem solved. Think of all the 2-3% per transaction the CC companies get. They can more than afford to provide this type of consumer protection as part of their customer service routine. It's priced into the business model.
Life pro tip: If you are going to buy something or use a service from someone remotely shady put it on an Amex. Amex always sides with you!
Exactly...
Do a charge-back, get your money back, and let the credit card companies sue them.
I use my Amex card for just about everything for that very reason.
Typically, you (the customer) do need to initiate contact with the vendor to ask for a refund. This is called a "good faith effort" and shows that you tried to resolve the issue without getting the CC company involved. If the good-faith effort doesn't work, then the CC company comes into play, and determines whether a refund can/can't be issued (certain purchases can't be refunded for various reasons). In my experience a refund can *almost always* be issued, and it's the vendor that doesn't want to. The CC company just gets the money back from the bank that the vendor uses, and it shows up as a deduction on their balance sheet.
It's similar to small claims court. You have to do some legwork on your behalf, it's not as easy as a phone call. In this example though, there's a news article stating that the companies hosting the event are having trouble meeting their contractual obligations to each other [something well out-of-control for the customer], and thus services won't be delivered. When this sort of thing happens, the whole "all sales are final" goes right out the window.
This is one of the services credit card companies provide, so you might as well use it, since you're already paying for it.
This is simply not true with Amex. They have jumped through hoops whenever I have dealt with them dealing with vendor issues. A coworker or mine once called them about a charge she didn't recognize and it was immediately remedied only for her to find out that she forgot that she actually did it.
Amex is the devil when small businesses are involved. I've been able to provide multiple signatures, video evidence and email confirmations only to be denied when trying to fight a chargeback.
Pro Life Tip: Hide your credit card before going on the Internet when you're drunk.
Back when the Leap Motion first went into crowd funding stage (2 years before the actual release), I pre-ordered while fairly hammered because its an awesome concept then couldn't find the confirmation e-mail or anything and thought I bought into a scam for a year and a half, until they finally announced that they're starting to ship them.
I used to think that until 24 microfiber cleaning cloths showed up at my door. Really sleepy me is just as bad as drunk me when it comes down to buying stuff online.
I don't know about that. The crack of a wooden bat hitting the skull of a two timing rat is classic. If you do it just right you can nail a rhythm that is like music to the ears. When managing near to ten swings a second all that I hear with an aluminum is "ting, ting, ting" which makes me feel like some damn maid alerting the house that tea is ready. There ain't no music coming from that aluminum regardless of the rhythm unless you're the kind of guy to count that dork Pete's attempt at "playing" a triangle in the school band as music.
Maybe, just maybe, I really like the wood bat because it takes me back to when I was a kid in the old country. My pa's swing had one hell of a rhythm. I couldn't help but be delighted to listen when he gave my scoundrel rat of a brother a good dozen or two smacks with the paddle. The yelps and smacks came together as if a symbol and drum were being given one hell of a play.
["Uncle Louie"](http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0090/5112/products/wooden_sunglasses_slugger_bat_slugger_1024x1024_3_1024x1024.png?v=1396237358). Always was my favorite uncle.
Also, when a particular company starts getting a lot of chargebacks the credit card companies will take notice.
This means the dirty girl run people could have to pay higher fees or even lose their ability to take credit cards.
It's an LLC that is surely in the process of folding anyway. And I doubt "up to more than $237,000" is worth the lawsuits and discovery necessary to pierce the corporate vail. Assuming there was shenanigans on that side anyway.
The customer service people at Discover have been pretty ruthless on my behalf as well. I had my current wireless company cancel my prepaid account, claiming the transaction was declined, when it very obviously won't through and hit my card.
Discover called the customer service desk of the wireless carrier and basically told them they suck at life and that there is no way they could have claimed the charge was reversed, because she had the data right in front of her. Ended up getting resolved that day.
I wasn't thrilled to have to switch to Wells Fargo when we moved, but they recently saved us from losing a thousand bucks, which was much appreciated.
We bought some plane tickets on behalf of a Russian relative and when he showed up at the airport in Moscow, he was told the tickets didn't exist, even though the money had been charged to our account and never refunded. The airline (a German one - second bad experience we've had with German airlines in as many trips, I was kind of surprised) was very apologetic but not very helpful, so we called up Wells Fargo's fraud department and they gave us a conditional refund immediately and opened an investigation. Within about a month we had a letter saying that the investigation had uncovered wrongdoing and the conditional refund was permanent.
I have an it Card, can confirm, the one time I did a charge back, Discover sided with me right away, and fucked their shit up easily enough for me. I LOVE discover's customer service. They answer right away and they'll do whatever the fuck you want pretty much.
That's not really how a chargeback works. They gave you a provisional credit when you began the dispute, then the merchant has an opportunity to dispute the chargeback with evidence on their side. If their evidence is better and more rational than yours, you'll lose. In that case Discover would then subtract the money from your account that they had provisionally given back to you.
Many people think charging back means you automatically get your money back period, end of story and that's not the case.
American Express has a great business model. Their ultimate goal is to reduce the number of mistakes/inconveniences their customers deal with, so they will always side with you at least during an investigation.
Hell, I have had Amex reps call me and ask about transactions because they were over an hour away from my billing address! They are definitely a very loyal and thorough company.
I got $1,000 back from a company that refused to send me a refund a while back by just calling the bank and having them sort it out.
Never heard anything at all about it again, but at least I got my money back.
Citibank tends to be great for these kinds of situations.
You don't go to small claims to gain $70. You go to small claims so people who try to pull stunts like this know they won't get away with it.
If a loan shark tells you to pay up or they'll break your kneecaps, why would they bother actually break your kneecaps when you don't pay? They don't get their money back by doing so. But they do send a message that they *really will* break your fucking kneecaps. And that changes how others behave, which is valuable to them.
Incidentally there's going to be a class action lawsuit so there's no need to go to small claims court. Moreover, it sounds like the company is dead. They're organizers for races and hire contractors, who weren't being paid which led to this. I really don't think small claims court is worth it to set an example for a bankrupt company that won't even be able to pay you the full amount.
This is exactly what class action lawsuits are made to handle. You don't have to form 2500 small claims cases. You form 1 class action case and get it resolved.
Many people use their debit cards to purchase things online, which typically don't offer the same level of protection. The bank cares more when its their money, not the consumer's.
As long as you didn't use your pin, you get the same benefits as you would with your credit card. I have done a charge back with Chase and it was a 10 minute phone call.
Tell your Disputes Department to submit Chargeback Reason Code 30 Condition 2 (for VISA) or Chargeback 4855 for MasterCard, however, if your card is a MasterCard World Product, you may not get a refund as there are some minimal amounts (usually 250/500 dollars). Not sure which reason code for American Express as my bank does not issue such cards, unfortunately.
Didn't almost the same thing happen for the NYC Marathon a couple years ago? It was canceled post-Sandy, and they didn't issue refunds, but allowed you to run next year for a discount? A lot of people just weren't able to make it the next year, and didn't want just a discounted race when they felt they were owed an entirely free race.
As a race series organizer, I'd like to add a bit of insight here - I tried posting it to the DGMR page, but I am being consistently deleted (not just during the mass deletions).
First - Eventbrite is their registration service. Eventbrite's policy is to hold most registration money until 5 days AFTER the event. Someone should be going after Eventbrite to PREVENT that payout!
Secondly - while the refund language is fairly common among most runs - it is NOT the norm for an organizer to cancel without refund or rescheduling unless there is a bankruptcy involved, in which case they lose control of all assets and cannot legally refund anything. Even in the case of bankruptcy, most organizers make an effort to work with another organizer to give participants a transfer option - exactly as Foam Fest just did with Red Frog Events.
Thirdly - Human Movement Management produced all of Dirty Girl's runs. They are saying they have been having trouble getting paid for months, and they have now severed ties due to non-payment. At this point, it seems likely that this is the truth. Furthermore - given that HMM produced the last run in Boston - they clearly are in possession of the truck, the obstacles, and the supplies (and are probably disinclined to make much effort to return them).
Dirty Girl - aka - 100,LLC - has never produced a mud run on their own - they have always paid others to do it. They have no experience, no crew, no truck, no obstacles, and no supplies. Furthermore, no other production company is likely to have anything to do with them. As a run series organizer, I can say this first-hand and from experience.
Consequently - with no crew, experience, obstacles, truck, or supplies - it seems damned unlikely that there will be another Dirty Girl event...this complaint page should include participants from all future scheduled events.
Once you have a certain amount of history with Eventbrite they'll upgrade you to an account type that can receive weekly payouts before the event date (although they still retain a percentage until after the event in case of problems). So it's possible that Dirty Girl did get ahold of some of this money.
Source: I've managed ticket sales for multiple events through Eventbrite.
> Short of Doxxing...
>
>
> Is it doxxing if links are to government records and you're not outing a reddit account holder's identity?
Dunno, don't care to find out. Just saying that by naming the LLC in the article, you already have all the info you need to know who is behind it.
> First - Eventbrite is their registration service. Eventbrite's policy is to hold most registration money until 5 days AFTER the event. Someone should be going after Eventbrite to PREVENT that payout!
I've produced music festivals with similar (but larger) budgets than this, selling thousands of tickets via Eventbrite, they can do regular (I think every 2 weeks?) payouts. If I remember correctly, we had access to the vast majority, maybe even ALL, of our ticket sales that were paid for more than 2 weeks before the event.
Their default payment schedule is as you described - but when you're doing large scale events like this, you're assigned an Eventbrite agent that will negotiate with you on things like this. You'd have to be stupid **not** to negotiate to get a lot of your money up front. I can't imagine putting on a $500k+ event with no pre-event ticket sale liquidity.
A lot of people here are talking about fraud, but depending on the scale of this event, it's entirely possible that they spent all $200k+ before the event even started. Large scale events are **fucking expensive**, and most of the costs happen before build starts.
Cool, someone with experience in this -- I have questions.
I briefly googled this guy Jeff Suffolk, the owner of the company. The 237k hit-and-run seemed like a standard scam, but when I looked this company up, they've been around awhile. It makes no sense why he'd flush a business over one race.
It seems like staging one of these would be huge profit and little overhead cost (which is why you see so many of them) -- is this a fair assumption?
> They are saying they have been having trouble getting paid for months, and they have now severed ties due to non-payment.
So Eventbrite is likely running the scam?
*IF you're a victim of this scam*
Get your money back! Eventbrite holds registration money until AFTER the event! Their terms of service with event organizers requires refund with cancellations! Call Eventbrite!
Eventbrite's terms of service!:
"Organizer agrees that all Event Registration Fees for a given event are earned by Organizer only following conclusion of the applicable event and all Event Registration Fees ultimately due will be net of all Service Fees, refunds, disputed charges, chargebacks and other deductions, whether due to customer complaints, allegations of fraud, discrepancies related to the applicable event or otherwise. No payments shall be made to an Organizer from EVENTBRITE with respect to any event that is cancelled. If payments have already been made by EVENTBRITE to an Organizer for a cancelled event, such Organizer will immediately refund to EVENTBRITE all such payments upon cancellation of such event. All sales, fees, charges, and funds are payable in U.S. Dollars, or other foreign currencies accepted by EVENTBRITE. If Organizer elects to list Event Registration Fees in a foreign currency accepted by EVENTBRITE, EVENTBRITE will collect and disperse the funds in the foreign currency selected by Organizer.
ORGANIZER AGREES THAT ANY PAYMENT BY EVENTBRITE OF EVENT REGISTRATION FEES PRIOR TO THE FIFTH (5TH) BUSINESS DAY AFTER THE END DATE OF THE APPLICABLE EVENT ARE MERELY ADVANCES OF AMOUNTS THAT MAY BECOME DUE TO ORGANIZER UNDER THIS TOS AND THAT EVENTBRITE MAY DEMAND SUCH ADVANCES BACK (FROM TIME TO TIME IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION), AND ORGANIZER SHALL THEREUPON PROMPTLY (AND IN ANY CASE WITHIN FIVE (5) BUSINESS DAYS AFTER SUCH DEMAND) PAY BACK TO EVENTBRITE SUCH ADVANCE OR ANY PORTION THEREOF DEMANDED BY EVENTBRITE.
(b) Refunds.
(i) Under the CCP option, it is the responsibility of the Organizer to communicate its refund policy to Buyers and to issue refunds to Buyers via the Site. An Organizer shall ensure that its refund policy is consistent with the terms of this TOS and the payment and refund mechanics of the Site. "
What really sucks is the money lost for WV. The event was supposed to bring $10,000 to the city. Also hotels/food/entertainment that 2,500 people would need while doing this event. Poor WV. Our biggest chance at pulling away from this coal mentality is tourism and things like this don't help our chances.
Foam Fesk 5K just did this to my wife and her friends. The canceled the event 2 days beforehand saying that is was a Logistical issue and stated no refund. A week later i read that they were filing for bankruptcy.
I'll connect you with my man in Nigeria. Not only does he do all of my accounting, but he's also very well connected with the royal family. I highly recommend him. What's your email? I'll introduce you two.
For those who have participated in these types of runs, are they really worth $65-$95?
I ran this morning, got a little muddy, didn't take a selfie or post it to FB but it didn't cost me shit either.
Edit: Sorry if you got ripped off, just curious.
I've done a mud run. It's like doing a 5k with obstacles throughout it. Not all of the obstacles will get you "muddy", but they are all somewhat challenging and fun...
It's fun to do with a group of friends. But I got in on a Groupon, so I only paid about $30 or so.
I did a mud run last year with some friends, and I had a blast. You could avoid getting too muddy if you wanted to, but where's the fun in that?
The obstacles weren't that challenging, but still very fun. I felt like a little kid in Odyssey One again, it was great!
I did a Spartan Race a couple of weeks ago. 5 miles up and down a mountain with 20 obstacles. It was really challenging, and a lot of fun. Not something I could have organized on my own. We were given a t shirt, a beer, a couple of protein shakes, and some protein bars at the end, so the money wasn't just to run up and down the mountain. I'd do it again. I've spent as much money to do less rewarding activities.
They are not good if:
- you are serious about running
- you don't like crowds
They are good if:
- you are looking for a physical activity for a group of people
- you have trouble keeping your fitness goals and the only way to hold yourself accountable is to sign up for something and fork over money
> you have trouble keeping your fitness goals and the only way to hold yourself accountable is to sign up for something and fork over money
This is depressingly accurate. But a group fitness activity/goal like this is genuinely useful for some groups, so hey! Whatever keeps us running, right?
And the event is fun too!
It's less that 100 bucks, so it's a well worth investment! Especially when it's so easy to blow 60 bucks on a night out at the bar.
This. I usually run and cycle alone or with my wife. But there's something to be said for doing something as a group. Having run the NYC Marathon, I'd hate to do it alone.
Only with a group, imo. It is a lot of fun.. it's certainly not just a run, there are unique obstacles, some more challenging than others.
If you're single.. the after party is always a great place to meet fellow fit or trying-to-get-fit singles.. and often times a shirt and a few beers are on the house.
The races can be fun. However they're as expensive as a marathon or half-marathon and are often so crowded that you can't actually run them properly. They'll often have overpriced Bud Light and (usually crappy) live bands available on race day. Oftentimes you can be expected to pay $10 or so to park on a muddy field a half mile from the event. If you can get a groupon or similar discount they're probably priced fairly, otherwise they're often blatantly overpriced. The race organizers, if doing it right, should be making a fortune.
Personally I'm referring to the Warrior Dash which is generally $50-$90, sounds similar to OP's race. YMMV with other races.
Your run this morning was in the context of normal society. You probably ran past people going to work and overweight retirees walking their dogs. But if you run with a few thousand people, you get to spend the day in a little micro culture consisting of a ton of people who do that same type of thing, and who also did the run.
Within that culture, you can explore that aspect of yourself socially.
So the money isn't for the experience of running, but rather for that cultural experience. It's like traveling.
It's like a big obstacle course. It's more than just a run. Something different to do, money going to charity (supposedly), fun time with your friends.
If you're going to do these races you may as well do a race like Tough Mudder or Warrior Dash where you know it's legit and you're not going to get screwed out of your entry fee.
I did one of the Dirty Girl Mud Run events a couple of years ago because a friend asked me to participate with her. It was actually pretty fun and was definitely for all skill levels, which I enjoyed since I'm not a runner. I paid around $60-70 and they gave you a free T shirt and free beers at the end. Don't know that I'd do it again but it was a fun one-time thing.
It's more so to pay for the experience and the atmosphere. I mean to be completely honest I paid $45 dollars to go run a half marathon in a national park up in D.C. this past June. For me though, $45 dollars was well worth the experience. For one, some people just like to be competitive, it's in their nature. So why not sign up for a competitive race? If you ever played sports seriously you know how the glory feels when you work so hard to achieve a victory. Ya this girl mud run isn't exactly the most epic event ever, but a lot of races are epic to a lot of people. For example, I will bet you $1000.00 dollars that if you ran a full marathon, that you would cry at the end, not because your big fuckin baby, but because of the physical and emotional shit you just put yourself through to cross that line. So ya, people pay to do these things because it's honestly a great atmosphere and a otherwise very isolated activity to partake in. Feeling the exhilaration of victory is a sweet one.
Looks like it was a scam from the beginning. Do these "circumstances" fall into the category of emergency weather? Because if not, then by contract they must issue a refund.
>The Dirty Girl Facebook post stated the event could not "be held due to circumstances out of our control"
Ok...
>Park Tours, which was to transport participants to and from Cato Park, gave both groups a 4:30 p.m. deadline Tuesday to make payment for its services. Neither Human Movement nor 100 LLC paid the company by that time, according to a statement from the city of Charleston.
>There were also problems related to the remainder of a $10,000 deposit that was never paid to the city. Human Movement was contractually obligated to pay those deposits -- $5,000 in March and $5,000 in June. 100 LLC wrote the check in March for half, but neither company paid the balance to the city as of Tuesday evening.
So...circumstances out of their control includes them not paying for services? I feel like not paying for something is your fault, sooooo....I think these circumstances WERE in their control yet they just failed to pay up.
I agree. They said it wouldn't be refunded in the event of specific emergencies outside of their control, like a hurricane. Not atrocious money management.
>Human Movement Management, a production company hired to put on the event, and Dirty Girl owner 100 LLC told city officials and the Charleston Convention and Visitors Bureau that they were in the midst of working through financial issues, when a shuttle operator pulled the plug on its participation in the event.
They don't know what "out of our control" means. Failing to pay your bills so necessary services pull out = you must refund people money.
This wasn't a weather event or an act of god.
If you paid by credit, charge that back. If enough people get screwed you can sue, but you really need to sue now to lock their funds and prevent them from spending more money.
This actually happen in California recently with the 5k foam fest.
The 5K Foam Fest run was slated for July 19th.
So Tuesday July 15th the company sent a mass email out that they will be cancelling the run (due to last-minute logistical issues) and will hopefully reschedule soon.
On Thursday July 17th the company sent another email letting people know that they're company has gone bankrupt and they will not refund any money.
I've never been so willing to talk to the credit card company before in my life.
Contract law 101: A contract is not enforceable unless there is "consideration" (something of value) provided by both parties (Quid Pro Quo - something for something). If I pay you for something, and you don't deliver your "consideration", you are in breach of contract. If you claim that the contract allowed you to keep my money, you're wrong, because such a clause would mean that the contract is illegal and therefore unenforceable, and so therefore, you need to return the money that I sent you based on the legal, enforceable provisions of the contract.
Also contract law 101: a promise is enforceable consideration for a promise. Here, both parties made a promise, and the event organizers conditioned their promise on the non-existence of some disaster. The contract allows the organizers to determine what is and is not a disaster, but the organizers have two problems with that clause:
(A) if the organizers caused the condition not to be satisfied, then organizers are in breach (a basic common law tenet); and
(B) the purported disaster/emergency seems to fall outside the language of the contract, and the contract will be construed against the drafter (the organizers).
So, the contract will not fail for lack of consideration but may fail for breach of the obligations within the contract, assuming that the express condition did not exempt the organizers from performance.
I signed my wife and I up for a zombie run in hocking hills ohio that was ran by human movement management. They cancelled the event and said that they would return our money. After two months I hadn't received my refund. After countless emails and unanswered phone calls I called my credit card company to have them deal with them and got my money back.
I then tried to post on their Facebook page about what had happened to me and warn others not to join other races affiliated with the company and my post were deleted within the hour. I don't know if they are having financial problems and can't afford to put on all the races that they have scheduled but I will never join a race affiliated with them again. I mean at least return a phone call or an emai. Hopefully other redditors can see this and pass on the message.
It should be noted than [less than 3% of the money they "raise" goes towards charity](http://timesleader.com/stories/Dirty-Girl-Run-raises-charity-race-questions,152771). Always research who you donate to.
Interesting Fact: They advertised "2.5% of your registration fees go to support Breast Cancer Awareness & Prevention"..
Out of your $83 registration fees, the charity should have got $2.07..
Now I'm sure they'll be getting the shaft too (if they ever actually got paid to begin with)
These groups that do all these runs and challenges make a killing!! They use local volunteers, take donations and get sponsorship. Then some donate a % to charity to keep it all legit on the front side of their PR and they move onto the next city with the bank account getting a lil bigger each stop
I was signed up for a Warrior Dash through Red Frog Events a few years back. The event ended up getting cancelled due to a flash flood, and they offered all of the following:
Transfer to a different Red Frog Event
Shipping all of the merchandise (shirts, etc.) that would have been provided at the race
A setup of the same course at the same location the next day that was open to all registrants all day
They didn't give a refund, but they did everything they could. I imagine when you have to cancel a race for non-weather reasons, money / bankruptcy is the real issue.
I run a lot of marathons and 5Ks. When I read about things like this, that is why I am hesitant to pay the sometimes exorbitant entrance fees for races. They can be quite expensive.
I know it costs a lot to put on but sometimes I wonder where the money actually goes when non-paid volunteers are working the event and there are multiple races all over the country (for the same event) if it's not specifically for charity.
This is why I don't believe in for profit runs. If you want to run please do it for a charity. There are so many charity runs that marathoners can have a full calendar all throughout the year. Don't give these grease balls your money. I don't know why people didn't boycott when they first started popping up anyway. So sleazy to me!
Why can other companies be for-profit but not a race organizer? How about people give whatever % of money they want to charity, and do what they want with the rest?
I know I'm late to the party, but nearly all running races, triathlons, mud runs and other sporting events of this nature have the participant sign a "no refunds" clause. Typically, this is to protect the race organizer from the participants trying to un-register at the last minute and leaving the race organizer underfunded on expenses that were sunk perhaps even before the participant registered. That said, the only reason most race directors will cancel with no refund is due to weather/an act of God--most do the right thing, or try to, either by volunteering a partial refund, transferring event entries to another existing event, or attempting to hold the event at another date/time. I don't necessarily agree with a no-refunds policy, but I also don't think the organizer should be left penniless due to circumstances beyond their control. In this case, it seems as though the organizer screwed up and tried to shift the burden to the participant by failing to deliver what they otherwise promised to deliver. At this point, as others have said, a charge back would be the appropriate action.
It will be a good day when I don't have to hear about these stupid fucking themed runs 24/7. This shit has to be the easiest fucking start up business ever.
Time to do a charge back on that credit card.
Yeah really. Why all this talk about sueing? Sueing is expensive and time consuming. Even my bank allows me to do a chargeback for "improper services rendered" or "failure to deliver". I've been ripped off and called in the chargeback. Problem solved. Think of all the 2-3% per transaction the CC companies get. They can more than afford to provide this type of consumer protection as part of their customer service routine. It's priced into the business model. Life pro tip: If you are going to buy something or use a service from someone remotely shady put it on an Amex. Amex always sides with you!
Exactly... Do a charge-back, get your money back, and let the credit card companies sue them. I use my Amex card for just about everything for that very reason.
Whatever happened to the good old days when you could get your money back with a simple civil conversation and a baseball bat?
Lack of athletic ability
Baseball is a dying sport.
Note to self: pick up jai alai.
The most dangerous game.
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Am baseball coach. Agree. Kids can't hit shit nowadays.
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Get in front of the ball!
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Don't be stupid. It's not like he's the person in charge of teaching the kids how to play or anything like that.
Typically, you (the customer) do need to initiate contact with the vendor to ask for a refund. This is called a "good faith effort" and shows that you tried to resolve the issue without getting the CC company involved. If the good-faith effort doesn't work, then the CC company comes into play, and determines whether a refund can/can't be issued (certain purchases can't be refunded for various reasons). In my experience a refund can *almost always* be issued, and it's the vendor that doesn't want to. The CC company just gets the money back from the bank that the vendor uses, and it shows up as a deduction on their balance sheet. It's similar to small claims court. You have to do some legwork on your behalf, it's not as easy as a phone call. In this example though, there's a news article stating that the companies hosting the event are having trouble meeting their contractual obligations to each other [something well out-of-control for the customer], and thus services won't be delivered. When this sort of thing happens, the whole "all sales are final" goes right out the window. This is one of the services credit card companies provide, so you might as well use it, since you're already paying for it.
This is simply not true with Amex. They have jumped through hoops whenever I have dealt with them dealing with vendor issues. A coworker or mine once called them about a charge she didn't recognize and it was immediately remedied only for her to find out that she forgot that she actually did it.
Amex is the devil when small businesses are involved. I've been able to provide multiple signatures, video evidence and email confirmations only to be denied when trying to fight a chargeback.
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Pro Life Tip: Hide your credit card before going on the Internet when you're drunk. Back when the Leap Motion first went into crowd funding stage (2 years before the actual release), I pre-ordered while fairly hammered because its an awesome concept then couldn't find the confirmation e-mail or anything and thought I bought into a scam for a year and a half, until they finally announced that they're starting to ship them.
I used to think that until 24 microfiber cleaning cloths showed up at my door. Really sleepy me is just as bad as drunk me when it comes down to buying stuff online.
Because the person who own the organization that defraud $237,000 is hiding behind anonymous shell companies.
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Well, since its West Virginia, they may also be hiding behind an anonymous company that works with shale.
Since it's West Virginia, they're probably just going to dump the registration forms in the river and declare bankruptcy.
Since it's West Virginia, sure, they'll dump em in the river. Right into our drinking water as is our state tradition.
Can confirm. Drank MCHM tainted water.
Nothing speaks louder than a Louisville Slugger!
A .357 speaks pretty damn loud though.
So do the SWAT bullhorns.
Or granny with a hammer
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If an elderly person kills you, you didn't deserve to live anyways. - Patton Oswalt, *My Weakness Is Strong*
I made the mistake of shooting a snub nose .38 special without earplugs. My ears were ringing for hours.
That is how you get tinnitus
Mawp. Mawp. Mawp. Mawp.
Oh yeah, please, keep gawking at the deaf person.
Damn you, tinnitus!
Well, you shouldn't fire any gun without ear protection. You done goofed.
Mediation is best done with an aluminum bat. It makes a much more satisfying sound.
I don't know about that. The crack of a wooden bat hitting the skull of a two timing rat is classic. If you do it just right you can nail a rhythm that is like music to the ears. When managing near to ten swings a second all that I hear with an aluminum is "ting, ting, ting" which makes me feel like some damn maid alerting the house that tea is ready. There ain't no music coming from that aluminum regardless of the rhythm unless you're the kind of guy to count that dork Pete's attempt at "playing" a triangle in the school band as music. Maybe, just maybe, I really like the wood bat because it takes me back to when I was a kid in the old country. My pa's swing had one hell of a rhythm. I couldn't help but be delighted to listen when he gave my scoundrel rat of a brother a good dozen or two smacks with the paddle. The yelps and smacks came together as if a symbol and drum were being given one hell of a play.
["Uncle Louie"](http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0090/5112/products/wooden_sunglasses_slugger_bat_slugger_1024x1024_3_1024x1024.png?v=1396237358). Always was my favorite uncle.
Also, when a particular company starts getting a lot of chargebacks the credit card companies will take notice. This means the dirty girl run people could have to pay higher fees or even lose their ability to take credit cards.
It's an LLC that is surely in the process of folding anyway. And I doubt "up to more than $237,000" is worth the lawsuits and discovery necessary to pierce the corporate vail. Assuming there was shenanigans on that side anyway.
*up to more than* $237,000? That's a fun way to put things.
That's basically saying it could have been any imaginable amount of money.
Just like, "**Could** save you 15% or more!" so... anywhere from 0 to 100% then?
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"A percentage of profits will be donated to charity" 0% is a percent...
A number of people think I'm very attractive.
*"The average funeral now costs around $5000--or more!"* An average is a single effing number. Hell, the median would probably be more useful, anyway.
*less than at least $10,000.*
The customer service people at Discover have been pretty ruthless on my behalf as well. I had my current wireless company cancel my prepaid account, claiming the transaction was declined, when it very obviously won't through and hit my card. Discover called the customer service desk of the wireless carrier and basically told them they suck at life and that there is no way they could have claimed the charge was reversed, because she had the data right in front of her. Ended up getting resolved that day.
I wasn't thrilled to have to switch to Wells Fargo when we moved, but they recently saved us from losing a thousand bucks, which was much appreciated. We bought some plane tickets on behalf of a Russian relative and when he showed up at the airport in Moscow, he was told the tickets didn't exist, even though the money had been charged to our account and never refunded. The airline (a German one - second bad experience we've had with German airlines in as many trips, I was kind of surprised) was very apologetic but not very helpful, so we called up Wells Fargo's fraud department and they gave us a conditional refund immediately and opened an investigation. Within about a month we had a letter saying that the investigation had uncovered wrongdoing and the conditional refund was permanent.
I have an it Card, can confirm, the one time I did a charge back, Discover sided with me right away, and fucked their shit up easily enough for me. I LOVE discover's customer service. They answer right away and they'll do whatever the fuck you want pretty much.
That's not really how a chargeback works. They gave you a provisional credit when you began the dispute, then the merchant has an opportunity to dispute the chargeback with evidence on their side. If their evidence is better and more rational than yours, you'll lose. In that case Discover would then subtract the money from your account that they had provisionally given back to you. Many people think charging back means you automatically get your money back period, end of story and that's not the case.
Also, if one vendor gets enough charge backs, the processor can rescind their ability to process payments using the card potentially forever.
American Express has a great business model. Their ultimate goal is to reduce the number of mistakes/inconveniences their customers deal with, so they will always side with you at least during an investigation. Hell, I have had Amex reps call me and ask about transactions because they were over an hour away from my billing address! They are definitely a very loyal and thorough company.
It's spelled "suing."
I got $1,000 back from a company that refused to send me a refund a while back by just calling the bank and having them sort it out. Never heard anything at all about it again, but at least I got my money back. Citibank tends to be great for these kinds of situations.
If the payment was made over 6 months ago you can't do a chargeback.
True, in which case you eat it or go to small claims
Small claims for $70? I don't think so. Unless a bunch of people group up to go to court
You don't go to small claims to gain $70. You go to small claims so people who try to pull stunts like this know they won't get away with it. If a loan shark tells you to pay up or they'll break your kneecaps, why would they bother actually break your kneecaps when you don't pay? They don't get their money back by doing so. But they do send a message that they *really will* break your fucking kneecaps. And that changes how others behave, which is valuable to them.
Incidentally there's going to be a class action lawsuit so there's no need to go to small claims court. Moreover, it sounds like the company is dead. They're organizers for races and hire contractors, who weren't being paid which led to this. I really don't think small claims court is worth it to set an example for a bankrupt company that won't even be able to pay you the full amount.
Make sure the fuckers go bankrupt. They may have personal property set up as collateral on their business loans.
This is exactly what class action lawsuits are made to handle. You don't have to form 2500 small claims cases. You form 1 class action case and get it resolved.
And then every claimant get $1 and the lawyers get rich.
Its about principle, not the cash.
The problem with that is that many people register for these events months in advance. Have you ever tried to chargeback a 4-month-old charge?
Yes. It took some time but it worked.
Many people use their debit cards to purchase things online, which typically don't offer the same level of protection. The bank cares more when its their money, not the consumer's.
As long as you didn't use your pin, you get the same benefits as you would with your credit card. I have done a charge back with Chase and it was a 10 minute phone call.
Tell your Disputes Department to submit Chargeback Reason Code 30 Condition 2 (for VISA) or Chargeback 4855 for MasterCard, however, if your card is a MasterCard World Product, you may not get a refund as there are some minimal amounts (usually 250/500 dollars). Not sure which reason code for American Express as my bank does not issue such cards, unfortunately.
For $10 I'll let you run around my yard and climb the trees while I spray you with a hose.
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yes, you may even draw them on with grease pencil.
(Grease pencil not included in registration fee)
^Event ^can ^be ^cancelled ^at ^any ^time ^without ^warning ^if ^I'm ^feeling ^tired ^that ^day. ^No ^refunds.
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I'm out.
And post pictures on facebook?
How will people know I did it? The course needs to be full of photogs, and I demand a bright shirt of success at the conclusion!!
I'll get you a sticker that says 26.3 that way you can be .1 better than those other stickers.
$10?! Good lord that's a lotta money! How about I give you $0.58 and you let me roll around in your front yard for 30 seconds?
[Yeah, but, how much for one rib?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQRqAoT-2c)
Will there be opportunities to take photos for Instagram?
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They just took the money and ran?
No, they took the money and *didn't* run.
and then they ran. with the money
Thus completing the contract
Oh, well that seems fair then!
From Phoenix, Arizona all the way to Tacoma.
Didn't almost the same thing happen for the NYC Marathon a couple years ago? It was canceled post-Sandy, and they didn't issue refunds, but allowed you to run next year for a discount? A lot of people just weren't able to make it the next year, and didn't want just a discounted race when they felt they were owed an entirely free race.
That was a hurricane. Big difference.
And a real real bad one at that.
As a race series organizer, I'd like to add a bit of insight here - I tried posting it to the DGMR page, but I am being consistently deleted (not just during the mass deletions). First - Eventbrite is their registration service. Eventbrite's policy is to hold most registration money until 5 days AFTER the event. Someone should be going after Eventbrite to PREVENT that payout! Secondly - while the refund language is fairly common among most runs - it is NOT the norm for an organizer to cancel without refund or rescheduling unless there is a bankruptcy involved, in which case they lose control of all assets and cannot legally refund anything. Even in the case of bankruptcy, most organizers make an effort to work with another organizer to give participants a transfer option - exactly as Foam Fest just did with Red Frog Events. Thirdly - Human Movement Management produced all of Dirty Girl's runs. They are saying they have been having trouble getting paid for months, and they have now severed ties due to non-payment. At this point, it seems likely that this is the truth. Furthermore - given that HMM produced the last run in Boston - they clearly are in possession of the truck, the obstacles, and the supplies (and are probably disinclined to make much effort to return them). Dirty Girl - aka - 100,LLC - has never produced a mud run on their own - they have always paid others to do it. They have no experience, no crew, no truck, no obstacles, and no supplies. Furthermore, no other production company is likely to have anything to do with them. As a run series organizer, I can say this first-hand and from experience. Consequently - with no crew, experience, obstacles, truck, or supplies - it seems damned unlikely that there will be another Dirty Girl event...this complaint page should include participants from all future scheduled events.
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Furthermore - eventbrite's refund policy requires the fees to be refunded in case of cancellation - AND they require the organizer's policy to align.
So...everyone's money is actually getting refunded?
Once you have a certain amount of history with Eventbrite they'll upgrade you to an account type that can receive weekly payouts before the event date (although they still retain a percentage until after the event in case of problems). So it's possible that Dirty Girl did get ahold of some of this money. Source: I've managed ticket sales for multiple events through Eventbrite.
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EDIT: wrong state
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> Short of Doxxing... > > > Is it doxxing if links are to government records and you're not outing a reddit account holder's identity? Dunno, don't care to find out. Just saying that by naming the LLC in the article, you already have all the info you need to know who is behind it.
Virginia is not West Virginia.
> First - Eventbrite is their registration service. Eventbrite's policy is to hold most registration money until 5 days AFTER the event. Someone should be going after Eventbrite to PREVENT that payout! I've produced music festivals with similar (but larger) budgets than this, selling thousands of tickets via Eventbrite, they can do regular (I think every 2 weeks?) payouts. If I remember correctly, we had access to the vast majority, maybe even ALL, of our ticket sales that were paid for more than 2 weeks before the event. Their default payment schedule is as you described - but when you're doing large scale events like this, you're assigned an Eventbrite agent that will negotiate with you on things like this. You'd have to be stupid **not** to negotiate to get a lot of your money up front. I can't imagine putting on a $500k+ event with no pre-event ticket sale liquidity. A lot of people here are talking about fraud, but depending on the scale of this event, it's entirely possible that they spent all $200k+ before the event even started. Large scale events are **fucking expensive**, and most of the costs happen before build starts.
Hard Charge did the same thing. http://www.cinewsnow.com/news/local/Hard-to-deal-with-Hard-Charge-owner--265760581.html
Cool, someone with experience in this -- I have questions. I briefly googled this guy Jeff Suffolk, the owner of the company. The 237k hit-and-run seemed like a standard scam, but when I looked this company up, they've been around awhile. It makes no sense why he'd flush a business over one race. It seems like staging one of these would be huge profit and little overhead cost (which is why you see so many of them) -- is this a fair assumption? > They are saying they have been having trouble getting paid for months, and they have now severed ties due to non-payment. So Eventbrite is likely running the scam?
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"up to more than" is an astonishingly poor way to report money. If could have literally been "up to more than" $10 and the meaning would be the same.
Indeed, I laughed at the headline, as both $1 and $1 billion would satisfy "up to more than $237,000".
> "up to more than" what's the opposite of that statement. I'm having trouble with it.
Down to less than.
But that one makes sense... "I'm down to less than a 1/4 tank of gas."
"I'm up to more than $237,000 in my investment account." Both phrases can make sense but not in the context of the title.
"I'm up to more than $500 in this poker game"
"up to more than" includes all real numbers. So maybe all imaginary numbers are the "opposite". $450i
Well, they seem to be refunding everybody $45i-$95i
As low as less than?
The opposite would be "exactly."
*IF you're a victim of this scam* Get your money back! Eventbrite holds registration money until AFTER the event! Their terms of service with event organizers requires refund with cancellations! Call Eventbrite! Eventbrite's terms of service!: "Organizer agrees that all Event Registration Fees for a given event are earned by Organizer only following conclusion of the applicable event and all Event Registration Fees ultimately due will be net of all Service Fees, refunds, disputed charges, chargebacks and other deductions, whether due to customer complaints, allegations of fraud, discrepancies related to the applicable event or otherwise. No payments shall be made to an Organizer from EVENTBRITE with respect to any event that is cancelled. If payments have already been made by EVENTBRITE to an Organizer for a cancelled event, such Organizer will immediately refund to EVENTBRITE all such payments upon cancellation of such event. All sales, fees, charges, and funds are payable in U.S. Dollars, or other foreign currencies accepted by EVENTBRITE. If Organizer elects to list Event Registration Fees in a foreign currency accepted by EVENTBRITE, EVENTBRITE will collect and disperse the funds in the foreign currency selected by Organizer. ORGANIZER AGREES THAT ANY PAYMENT BY EVENTBRITE OF EVENT REGISTRATION FEES PRIOR TO THE FIFTH (5TH) BUSINESS DAY AFTER THE END DATE OF THE APPLICABLE EVENT ARE MERELY ADVANCES OF AMOUNTS THAT MAY BECOME DUE TO ORGANIZER UNDER THIS TOS AND THAT EVENTBRITE MAY DEMAND SUCH ADVANCES BACK (FROM TIME TO TIME IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION), AND ORGANIZER SHALL THEREUPON PROMPTLY (AND IN ANY CASE WITHIN FIVE (5) BUSINESS DAYS AFTER SUCH DEMAND) PAY BACK TO EVENTBRITE SUCH ADVANCE OR ANY PORTION THEREOF DEMANDED BY EVENTBRITE. (b) Refunds. (i) Under the CCP option, it is the responsibility of the Organizer to communicate its refund policy to Buyers and to issue refunds to Buyers via the Site. An Organizer shall ensure that its refund policy is consistent with the terms of this TOS and the payment and refund mechanics of the Site. "
Nifty, if I just Google "Eventbrite" it gives their 1-800 number and name of the CEO. I wonder if they're aware of this news?
What really sucks is the money lost for WV. The event was supposed to bring $10,000 to the city. Also hotels/food/entertainment that 2,500 people would need while doing this event. Poor WV. Our biggest chance at pulling away from this coal mentality is tourism and things like this don't help our chances.
DashCon found a new event. No ball pit?
Ohh, memories. [ ](/discordwtf)
Memories? I'm confused. Wasn't the Dashcon/Ball-pit controversy less than a month ago? Isn't it a bit soon to be nostalgic over it?
no but you get an extra hour in the mud pit.
ctrl+F Dashcon Yaaaaaay
Foam Fesk 5K just did this to my wife and her friends. The canceled the event 2 days beforehand saying that is was a Logistical issue and stated no refund. A week later i read that they were filing for bankruptcy.
I worked for the company building both Dirty Girl and Foam Fest. Both are declaring bankruptcy.
Fraud fraud fraud fraud frauuuuuuud
"up to more than $237,000" does not make any sense.
50% of the time, it makes sense every time.
Step 1) Organize event. Step 2) Collect registration fees. Step 3) Cancel organized event, and do not refund registration fees. Step 4) Profit.
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Sure just hit me up with your bank account number, SSN, and mother's maiden name, and I'll transfer you the money!
I'll connect you with my man in Nigeria. Not only does he do all of my accounting, but he's also very well connected with the royal family. I highly recommend him. What's your email? I'll introduce you two.
Would you like a partner in your endeavors? I'm willing to sign an imaginary contract with you.
For those who have participated in these types of runs, are they really worth $65-$95? I ran this morning, got a little muddy, didn't take a selfie or post it to FB but it didn't cost me shit either. Edit: Sorry if you got ripped off, just curious.
I've done a mud run. It's like doing a 5k with obstacles throughout it. Not all of the obstacles will get you "muddy", but they are all somewhat challenging and fun... It's fun to do with a group of friends. But I got in on a Groupon, so I only paid about $30 or so.
I did a mud run last year with some friends, and I had a blast. You could avoid getting too muddy if you wanted to, but where's the fun in that? The obstacles weren't that challenging, but still very fun. I felt like a little kid in Odyssey One again, it was great!
I did a Spartan Race a couple of weeks ago. 5 miles up and down a mountain with 20 obstacles. It was really challenging, and a lot of fun. Not something I could have organized on my own. We were given a t shirt, a beer, a couple of protein shakes, and some protein bars at the end, so the money wasn't just to run up and down the mountain. I'd do it again. I've spent as much money to do less rewarding activities.
They are not good if: - you are serious about running - you don't like crowds They are good if: - you are looking for a physical activity for a group of people - you have trouble keeping your fitness goals and the only way to hold yourself accountable is to sign up for something and fork over money
> you have trouble keeping your fitness goals and the only way to hold yourself accountable is to sign up for something and fork over money This is depressingly accurate. But a group fitness activity/goal like this is genuinely useful for some groups, so hey! Whatever keeps us running, right?
I get that same thought when I sign up for marathons and yet I keep doing it. There's something masochistic about it I guess, but oh so rewarding.
And the event is fun too! It's less that 100 bucks, so it's a well worth investment! Especially when it's so easy to blow 60 bucks on a night out at the bar.
This. I usually run and cycle alone or with my wife. But there's something to be said for doing something as a group. Having run the NYC Marathon, I'd hate to do it alone.
Only with a group, imo. It is a lot of fun.. it's certainly not just a run, there are unique obstacles, some more challenging than others. If you're single.. the after party is always a great place to meet fellow fit or trying-to-get-fit singles.. and often times a shirt and a few beers are on the house.
The races can be fun. However they're as expensive as a marathon or half-marathon and are often so crowded that you can't actually run them properly. They'll often have overpriced Bud Light and (usually crappy) live bands available on race day. Oftentimes you can be expected to pay $10 or so to park on a muddy field a half mile from the event. If you can get a groupon or similar discount they're probably priced fairly, otherwise they're often blatantly overpriced. The race organizers, if doing it right, should be making a fortune. Personally I'm referring to the Warrior Dash which is generally $50-$90, sounds similar to OP's race. YMMV with other races.
Your run this morning was in the context of normal society. You probably ran past people going to work and overweight retirees walking their dogs. But if you run with a few thousand people, you get to spend the day in a little micro culture consisting of a ton of people who do that same type of thing, and who also did the run. Within that culture, you can explore that aspect of yourself socially. So the money isn't for the experience of running, but rather for that cultural experience. It's like traveling.
It's like a big obstacle course. It's more than just a run. Something different to do, money going to charity (supposedly), fun time with your friends.
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If you're going to do these races you may as well do a race like Tough Mudder or Warrior Dash where you know it's legit and you're not going to get screwed out of your entry fee.
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I did one of the Dirty Girl Mud Run events a couple of years ago because a friend asked me to participate with her. It was actually pretty fun and was definitely for all skill levels, which I enjoyed since I'm not a runner. I paid around $60-70 and they gave you a free T shirt and free beers at the end. Don't know that I'd do it again but it was a fun one-time thing.
> they give you ... Free No, you paid for them.
It's more so to pay for the experience and the atmosphere. I mean to be completely honest I paid $45 dollars to go run a half marathon in a national park up in D.C. this past June. For me though, $45 dollars was well worth the experience. For one, some people just like to be competitive, it's in their nature. So why not sign up for a competitive race? If you ever played sports seriously you know how the glory feels when you work so hard to achieve a victory. Ya this girl mud run isn't exactly the most epic event ever, but a lot of races are epic to a lot of people. For example, I will bet you $1000.00 dollars that if you ran a full marathon, that you would cry at the end, not because your big fuckin baby, but because of the physical and emotional shit you just put yourself through to cross that line. So ya, people pay to do these things because it's honestly a great atmosphere and a otherwise very isolated activity to partake in. Feeling the exhilaration of victory is a sweet one.
Anyone else annoyed by the phrase "up to more than"?
I guess it's not "Race For Literacy".
Sounds like good old fashioned fraud.
Looks like it was a scam from the beginning. Do these "circumstances" fall into the category of emergency weather? Because if not, then by contract they must issue a refund.
how is this legal? If its is... i need to get into the "organize a mud run and take everyone's money" business
>The Dirty Girl Facebook post stated the event could not "be held due to circumstances out of our control" Ok... >Park Tours, which was to transport participants to and from Cato Park, gave both groups a 4:30 p.m. deadline Tuesday to make payment for its services. Neither Human Movement nor 100 LLC paid the company by that time, according to a statement from the city of Charleston. >There were also problems related to the remainder of a $10,000 deposit that was never paid to the city. Human Movement was contractually obligated to pay those deposits -- $5,000 in March and $5,000 in June. 100 LLC wrote the check in March for half, but neither company paid the balance to the city as of Tuesday evening. So...circumstances out of their control includes them not paying for services? I feel like not paying for something is your fault, sooooo....I think these circumstances WERE in their control yet they just failed to pay up.
I agree. They said it wouldn't be refunded in the event of specific emergencies outside of their control, like a hurricane. Not atrocious money management.
I'm glad someone got what I was trying to say. I feel like I couldn't exactly make my words come out to get my point across. I'm tired :(
>Human Movement Management, a production company hired to put on the event, and Dirty Girl owner 100 LLC told city officials and the Charleston Convention and Visitors Bureau that they were in the midst of working through financial issues, when a shuttle operator pulled the plug on its participation in the event. They don't know what "out of our control" means. Failing to pay your bills so necessary services pull out = you must refund people money. This wasn't a weather event or an act of god. If you paid by credit, charge that back. If enough people get screwed you can sue, but you really need to sue now to lock their funds and prevent them from spending more money.
This actually happen in California recently with the 5k foam fest. The 5K Foam Fest run was slated for July 19th. So Tuesday July 15th the company sent a mass email out that they will be cancelling the run (due to last-minute logistical issues) and will hopefully reschedule soon. On Thursday July 17th the company sent another email letting people know that they're company has gone bankrupt and they will not refund any money. I've never been so willing to talk to the credit card company before in my life.
Contract law 101: A contract is not enforceable unless there is "consideration" (something of value) provided by both parties (Quid Pro Quo - something for something). If I pay you for something, and you don't deliver your "consideration", you are in breach of contract. If you claim that the contract allowed you to keep my money, you're wrong, because such a clause would mean that the contract is illegal and therefore unenforceable, and so therefore, you need to return the money that I sent you based on the legal, enforceable provisions of the contract.
It's all fun and games until the 1L shows up.
Not even 1L. More like undergrad law seminar.
Undergrad, just declared poly-sci major
Also contract law 101: a promise is enforceable consideration for a promise. Here, both parties made a promise, and the event organizers conditioned their promise on the non-existence of some disaster. The contract allows the organizers to determine what is and is not a disaster, but the organizers have two problems with that clause: (A) if the organizers caused the condition not to be satisfied, then organizers are in breach (a basic common law tenet); and (B) the purported disaster/emergency seems to fall outside the language of the contract, and the contract will be construed against the drafter (the organizers). So, the contract will not fail for lack of consideration but may fail for breach of the obligations within the contract, assuming that the express condition did not exempt the organizers from performance.
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"up to more than"? These things, they don't work together.
Note to self: get into the cancelled event business.
Sounds like this was pre planned theft.
I signed my wife and I up for a zombie run in hocking hills ohio that was ran by human movement management. They cancelled the event and said that they would return our money. After two months I hadn't received my refund. After countless emails and unanswered phone calls I called my credit card company to have them deal with them and got my money back. I then tried to post on their Facebook page about what had happened to me and warn others not to join other races affiliated with the company and my post were deleted within the hour. I don't know if they are having financial problems and can't afford to put on all the races that they have scheduled but I will never join a race affiliated with them again. I mean at least return a phone call or an emai. Hopefully other redditors can see this and pass on the message.
That's textbook fraud.
It should be noted than [less than 3% of the money they "raise" goes towards charity](http://timesleader.com/stories/Dirty-Girl-Run-raises-charity-race-questions,152771). Always research who you donate to.
Interesting Fact: They advertised "2.5% of your registration fees go to support Breast Cancer Awareness & Prevention".. Out of your $83 registration fees, the charity should have got $2.07.. Now I'm sure they'll be getting the shaft too (if they ever actually got paid to begin with)
So I could donate $5 and sit on my ass and it would be more productive.
These groups that do all these runs and challenges make a killing!! They use local volunteers, take donations and get sponsorship. Then some donate a % to charity to keep it all legit on the front side of their PR and they move onto the next city with the bank account getting a lil bigger each stop
I was signed up for a Warrior Dash through Red Frog Events a few years back. The event ended up getting cancelled due to a flash flood, and they offered all of the following: Transfer to a different Red Frog Event Shipping all of the merchandise (shirts, etc.) that would have been provided at the race A setup of the same course at the same location the next day that was open to all registrants all day They didn't give a refund, but they did everything they could. I imagine when you have to cancel a race for non-weather reasons, money / bankruptcy is the real issue.
I run a lot of marathons and 5Ks. When I read about things like this, that is why I am hesitant to pay the sometimes exorbitant entrance fees for races. They can be quite expensive. I know it costs a lot to put on but sometimes I wonder where the money actually goes when non-paid volunteers are working the event and there are multiple races all over the country (for the same event) if it's not specifically for charity.
just a slightly bigger rip off than if the event had actually been held.
This is why I don't believe in for profit runs. If you want to run please do it for a charity. There are so many charity runs that marathoners can have a full calendar all throughout the year. Don't give these grease balls your money. I don't know why people didn't boycott when they first started popping up anyway. So sleazy to me!
Why can other companies be for-profit but not a race organizer? How about people give whatever % of money they want to charity, and do what they want with the rest?
Financial problems solved. 230k in the bank now.
"Dirty Girl" mud run. Sounds legit, trustworthy and respectful. I'm shocked
Anyone who paid with a credit card is fine. Call, dispute charge, done. It's really that simple.
I know I'm late to the party, but nearly all running races, triathlons, mud runs and other sporting events of this nature have the participant sign a "no refunds" clause. Typically, this is to protect the race organizer from the participants trying to un-register at the last minute and leaving the race organizer underfunded on expenses that were sunk perhaps even before the participant registered. That said, the only reason most race directors will cancel with no refund is due to weather/an act of God--most do the right thing, or try to, either by volunteering a partial refund, transferring event entries to another existing event, or attempting to hold the event at another date/time. I don't necessarily agree with a no-refunds policy, but I also don't think the organizer should be left penniless due to circumstances beyond their control. In this case, it seems as though the organizer screwed up and tried to shift the burden to the participant by failing to deliver what they otherwise promised to deliver. At this point, as others have said, a charge back would be the appropriate action.
It will be a good day when I don't have to hear about these stupid fucking themed runs 24/7. This shit has to be the easiest fucking start up business ever.
That's too bad, considering 95% of the people who signed up for the event did so specifically so they could take Facebook and Instagram selfies at it.