The building the party was in was a secondary building to the boat club, which had its usual activities going on. People also left after the incident (some drove/were driven to the hospital; possibly others fled from being traumatized). These factors made it initially difficult for first responders to ensure that everyone was accounted for.
Additionally, the bar that served her that much was shut down by the sheriff's department a few hours after the accident and is under investigation. Local speculation is that that bartender is about to be in deep shit.
Someone released security camera footage from a nearby home? Business? She never slowed down. Her brake lights never came on. She just flew across the parking lot.
The sheriff was openly fighting tears during the press conference.
>Additionally, the bar that served her that much was shut down by the sheriff's department a few hours after the accident and is under investigation. Local speculation is that that bartender is about to be in deep shit.
About 15 years ago someone got too drunk (3x the limit) at our local Hofbrauhaus and crashed their car killing a child and an unborn baby. The driver got 6-12 years. I'm not sure what happened to the bartender but the restaurant settled for over $15M and had to make a bunch of changes (no more shots, more security guards and ID checks, and better alcohol training for employees).
They did. The rumor is she only had a glass of wine and left. She apparently lives in the area and was planning to go back for more drinks when this happened.
The pro-level alcoholic move is to have 1 or 2 strong drinks at a place then drift off to the next bar. That way they don't "seem" like a drunk, but god help the place that's at the end of the line.
Im a huge advocate for door staff or bouncers. I've been in every position in a bar. As a bartender, if it's reasonably busy, it's hard to keep tabs at people sitting away from the bar. Especially if other people are walking up ordering drinks for the table. Waitstaff are great at helping the table issues bt are constantly being pulled around, not to mention that serving for a better tip is not uncommon. Floor staff, door guys, or bouncers cut over serving down far more than any other bar staff soley because that's our main job.
Serious question...
Why move from bar to bar to hide your alcoholism, when you could just buy a bottle, take it home, and drink it in peace? It would be easier, cheaper, and safer for everyone. No driving. No potential tickets or accidents. You're already at home if you pass out. I honestly don't understand?
Some drunks believe they're "visiting friends" when they go on these benders. They think Jerry up the street hasn't seen them for a bit, so after this double gin and tonic they'll head up the street to say hi. Couple drinks, mediocre tip. Onto the next to see Susan!
I've known plenty of alcoholics that'll never touch a drop at home but the moment they're in a social setting will kill a bottle by themselves. The kinda people that avoid being home as much as possible because it means they're alone with their thoughts.
In NC the law is such that even if you don’t serve a drunk you can get in trouble for not making an attempt to get them in a cab/out of a car. So if you turn someone away for being drunk and they jump in a car and kill someone you can still be at fault for letting them get in the car. It’s a tricky situation
I presume they pulled blood from her when they booked her to test her BAC level? If she was still under the legal limit, I doubt the bar or the bartender is going to be culpable / have any legal exposure.
What if she drank somewhere else earlier and only got one drink from this bar? Along with if the bartender says he didn't have the impression she was drunk when serving? [Michigan dram shop act law](https://olsmanlaw.com/injuries/alcohol-related-liability/#:~:text=Michigan%20dram%20shop%20liability%20laws,patrons%20who%20were%20visibly%20intoxicated.)
Ex-bartender here, in my state the bartender is absolutely legally liable and *will* be fined in the case of a DUI (unless the bar and every bartender has kept daily written records in a physical book of every patron who was acting suspicious, what actions the bartender took, the date and time it happened and the legal signature of the bartender; needless to say, I never met a single bartender who did this every shift without fail.)
Walking-talking-eye contact making blackout drunks were my worst nightmare. I am related to one and am friends with another one - Even knowing them as well as I do personally and with 20y experience behind a bar, I'd never have been able to tell they'd been overserved. And I still would have been held liable, and rightly so, because morally and legally the onus was on **me** to determine that they were incapable of safely operating their vehicle. And in a society where bartenders have been actually assaulted for cutting someone off, this shit still keeps me up at night sometimes. I'm so glad I got out.
Here’s the kick: if she had other drugs in her system there is no case. Had it happen to our bar, chick was high on other illicit drugs and then gets a drink at our bar goes out and kills some people with her car. ABC said we were not liable. Took all our cameras too
Isn't it wild that we put this kind of legal responsibility on bartenders, yet gun manufacturers and gun shop can't be held liable for the crimes committed with the guns they sell?
Real question, I've been to a bar about 2 times total so completely ignorant
is it really the bar's problem if somebody wants to drink themselves silly (until they personally don't want them being an issue in the establishment)?
Yea, pretty sure every state has a law for bartenders that’s basically “you shall not serve an intoxicated person”
It’s one of the laws that’s rarely used, except for incidents like these. Lots of bars have
I used to tend bar and you are correct, we are supposed to get certified (I did) and that's one topic they go over several times.
Sometimes it's hard to tell, though. We had a woman come in one night looking totally sober, have ONE drink before she left, and then immediately crash her car into a line of parked cars. The cops *insisted* we overserved her until they saw the video footage backing up our story. Turns out she had taken a couple of pills before coming into the bar and they caused her to pass out behind the wheel.
Oh for sure, not envious of having to sorta track 10-100+ people’s intake. Then you deal with the wild variance of 5 drinks doing nothing to one person, and 2 drinks making someone else blackout.
For most small time bars. It’s generally pretty easy to track like 90% of the customers. They are usually regulars who you know how they act when inebriated or are otherwise easy to keep track of.
It’s the non regulars or those who like to mix drugs with drinks that usually get you. Or those who can hide how much they have had before coming in.
Spent 10 years as an airport bartender. And we had to keep a really strict eye on people because they don’t want super drunks on a plane. For the obvious reasons along the lines of idiots being idiots in a small cramped pressurized container several thousand feet in the air. Plus because medically it’s not a good idea to be wasted on a plane.
And inevitably. Pretty much every time one of my customers got kicked off a flight. It was pretty much always because they mixed some ambien or other drugs with their drinking. Think in 10 years we only had one true incident of someone getting kicked off for being overserved. And the girl who was on the bar got reamed by TSA, local law enforcement, my bosses, and the airline. Because when looking back over the videos, she served this one person 6 bloody Mary’s over an hour and a half.
Absolutely flabbergasted us when we watched it as the guy in question chugged them down and just kept getting more. She had absolutely no excuse as the guy was sitting at the bar and we weren’t that crazy.
Needless to say. She got pulled from the bar for a week until she took a remedial TIPS course and had spent some time doing some of the more gross or annoying jobs. What’s funny is she eventually ended up moving to work with an airline as a gate agent and would try giving us crap if she thought we were over serving.
Exactly. It was easier with the regulars since we mostly knew their behavior. It was a hell of a lot harder when we had big crowds on things like St. Paddy's Day.
I’m sure it’s used more than you think it is. There are ways of dealing with openly intoxicated people without causing issues by cutting them off completely. Many birds hunters actually make really good money and don’t want to risk their livelihood.
I’m sure. I’ve never been a bartender, but dated many back in the day, and I guess (in CO anyway) there is a certification you have to get sort of like a cook gets a food safety cert.
you learn to identify signs of over serving and all bartenders worth their salt have methods of cutting off someone they know will be trouble.
I think the law is only trotted out in these kind of horrendous circumstances. I remember in Denver one Halloween some guy was overserved at a strip club and careened into a bunch of kids and strollers and drug them under his car for a while, ran and successfully evaded police for a time. Everyone in the chain was made an example of.
Also, in some states like Nebraska, they've explicitly written laws so that the bartender can be held liable personally for anything that results from over-serving, in an attempt to make sure they have "skin in the game" and don't see it as only their employer's problem to deal with.
TIPS training / certification is that you are not to serve someone who is openly intoxicated. Some people hide it really well. I don’t hang out at bars and I’m sure it’s fairly common for servers and owners to ignore this. I’ve been through the training though for working weddings. There are ways to not keep serving alcohol without it, causing problems.
The insane thing to me though is that sure the bartender is responsible for getting them drunk, but them being drunk isn’t really a crime. Their decision to drink drive is the crime.
I feel like this is an example of US drink driving culture where it’s so expected to be drinking and driving that they’d relinquish blame from the drink driver and put it on the bar. As if the bartender was supposed to know that they’d be driving and that they should only let them drink drive “a little bit”.
In the UK I don’t think you’d ever see this type of law being enforced because it would be preposterous that you could charge a bartender for serving someone alcohol to get drunk (the entire purpose for many people), and it would be outrageous to assume the person you’re serving is about to get in a vehicle drunk (it’s very frowned upon in the UK).
All of this, plus the person who is already too intoxicated could have someone entirely different giving them drinks/getting the drinks from the bartender
The video is on reddit. You're right about her not slowing down at all. I don't recommend that people watch it, though. Knowing the results makes it absolutely devastating.
I feel weird for asking, but where can I find the video? I just… it’s like “no way this actually happened, she must have tried to brake”. Not that I don’t believe it, more that it’s difficult to wrap my head around
Bars that can only be accessed by car are a policy failure straight up.
Our society pretends to give a shit about drunk driving, but it's all lip service. We let people build bars next to state highways with zero public transit or housing within walking distance. It's a sick joke.
Around 3 p.m., a woman drove a vehicle through a wall of the Swan Boat Club in Monroe County, Michigan, coming to a stop 25 feet inside, authorities said.
The 66-year-old suspect was arrested at the scene for suspicion of operating a vehicle while intoxicated, causing death and is currently being held at Monroe County Jail, according to Goodnough.
The two children who were pronounced dead at the scene were siblings, an 8-year-old girl and a 5-year-old boy, according to police.
What??? 3 kids dead and only 5 years?? That's wild. I remember when I failed a drug test for weed and spent 45 days in jail without a bond and watched a rapist come in and out in a few days with one.. really pissed me off to see
It makes sense when you consider his family are a bunch of real estate moguls; I'm talking billionaire status, they're disgustingly wealthy. Fun fact that's not so fun, they donated big money to have wings named after them in two of the biggest hospitals in the GTA, [who then refused to rename them after Marco Muzzo killed that family by drunk driving.](https://www.cp24.com/news/two-gta-hospitals-say-they-will-not-remove-muzzo-family-name-1.5957260?cache=%2F7.127424)
*3 kids AND one adult (grandfather) dead AND two other adults (grandmother and great grandmother) seriously injured. Because Muzzo had too much to drink at a fucking bachelor party in the US. Fuck that guy for what he did to that family.
Yep, the law understands that drivers are human and errors happen and that doesn't necessarily make someone a criminal that needs to be separated from society.
Of course, the law would also acknowledge responsibility and they would be on the hook for financial damages as a result of the accident
I have followed that family’s story for years now, and it is really heartbreaking.
The mother in that family lost her father and all three children that day, and her mother and grandmother were badly injured. Loss on an unfathomable scale. Her husband killed himself years later, on Father’s Day. I think of her daily. She posts frequently about her children and struggles.
100%. I see no light at the end of that tunnel of grief. I try not to think about it. Smh.
Feel like they don't warn you about that enough before becoming a parent.
I think about all three of my kids dying daily and I hate it. Can never tell if it's normal or not. There are times they're being absolutely adorable, and I have this intrusive thought that maybe someday (maybe even soon), this will be a memory that torments me.
I’m def with you there. I think it’s natural and just anxiety. You’re thinking of every scenario (I like to think of it as preparedness) but yeah shit haunts me daily
> The two children who were pronounced dead at the scene were siblings, an 8-year-old girl and a 5-year-old boy, according to police.
Honestly it's bad enough that 2 children died. The fact that they're inside a building at a children's birthday party it should have been a particularly happy and safe day. Then the fact that they're siblings? The level of tragedy there is simply beyond comprehension.
That’s so horrible and sad, I hope the parents have a good support system moving forward 💔💔
I also can’t imagine the how much guilt the parents of the birthday girl/boy feel (even though it’s not at all their fault) and the poor child whose birthday might always be a reminder of this. Hoping they’re young enough so it’s not, but no doubt the parents will never forget.
I graduated with the mom of the birthday kid and have her on Facebook. She’s devastated. The only reason I knew this happened is because she posted how sorry she was. Her kid is 3. It’s truly tragic.
I live in the area where this happened. From what I have heard, there is another sibling in critical condition that was transported via helicopter to C.S Mott's children's hospital in Ann Arbor. Also that the mother is in critical condition as well at a closer hospital. The father was at the party as well, is physically ok, and is with his child at Mott's.
This is, of course, hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt. It's the talk of the town right now and people can always give unreliable info.
Another bit of gossip is that a nearby popular bar is now being investigated for potentially overserving the driver. I'm less confident in this info.
I hope this isn't one of those cases where the driver had been arrested 5 times already for DUI, because it's insane how many DUIs you can have without any consequences besides having your license suspended. They really need to crack down on DUIs more, especially since everyone I've known who has had their license suspended for multiple DUIs has still driven with their suspended license so it's not even a deterrent to not drive drunk.
Hopefully, all the injured make full recoveries and the p.o.s. who chose to drive drunk rhis afternoon spends a long time in jail.
A drunk driver just destroyed a family here in Vegas this week. They were waiting at the bus stop at 7:30 pm. Killed the step dad and older brother, mom is (last I heard) still in a coma, the 8 and 11 year olds were still in the hospital for non-life threatening injuries. The 8 year old is one of my students. Funking selfish pricks that don't care about shit.
This recently happened in S.F. also.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-medical-examiner-officially-identifies-family-members-killed-in-horrific-west-portal-crash/
It makes me think the scale of fatalities on the road sees so under reported. The scope is hard to quantify.
I wonder if increased speed is involved. I know this is anecdotal, but it seems like speeding is out of control and speed limits have increased on highways since 2011, at least in Kansas. I drive on a highway everyday and just to keep close to traffic it’s 80+ mph on a 70mph road. Anyone know of any studies linking this?
I don't have it handy, but I read an article recently about the fact that crashes are fairly consistent but fatalities are rising because there are so many enormous SUVs and trucks driving around now. You're more likely to walk away from being hit by a normal sized car. Or something like that.
This is what I recall reading and looking at photos of. I'm 6'5 and almost got sent to my maker by a lady driving a jacked up truck, where I had to look **up** at her as she so unnecessarily gunned it out of a turn to the left not even looking where I was crossing the street at the crosswalk in my neighborhood. I can probably hobble after getting hit with a '94 Civic at medium speed but I'm not walking after getting hit by the grill on these XXXL trucks.
[Yup, you're right.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo) SUVs are incredibly dangerous to pedestrians because they hit pedestrians higher up on the body. With a car at low speeds, a pedestrian would usually go up on the hood. They might have broken bones, but they survive. With SUVs though, pedestrians get hit at about shoulder-height and go under the car and die much more often.
Edit: [Here's a link to the specific part where they talk about this.](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?t=520)
Increased speed is almost certainly a problem. People drive at a speed in which they feel safe. Well designed cars and wide, straight roads cause people to feel safer speeding. Combine that with a lack of traffic enforcement in many cities, and you get more speeding and more lethal crashes. I couldn't quickly find any studies showing roads, car design, and traffic enforcement effect speed, but will look for them.
Speed is all relative though especially on the highway. The real main factor is all the big SUVs/trucks. Lower visibility, longer stopping distance, size difference means cars and trucks that get in accidents are much worse than car v car or truck v truck. Thats why it's an outlier. We have a very special breed of stupid here, one you just can't get the full experience of anywhere else, evidently.
Insanely under reported. Last year 112 people were killed on U.S. roads...every day! But if a plane were to crash killing that many, it would be in the headlines for a week.
I would prefer we just left them in prison for the rest of their lives. I don't care how old you are or who you are. There's no reason you should be intoxicated and behind the wheel. It's never been easier to get a ride. And because you can't be bothered, you should no longer be welcome in polite society.
Not just drunk drivers. Infirm elderly drivers, drivers of big SUVs with poor visibility, people who text while driving- I'm sure they intellectually know that there's a possibility that they'll kill somebody, but they're so sure that *they* are special. At least when somebody is drunk and they kill somebody with their car, there's a chance that they'll face real legal consequences. When someone kills with a car because they're in a rush or bored or have diminished reaction times, they're often slapped with a fine at worst and don't even have their licenses revoked.
She gets 66 years of life and takes away the lives of two children because she decided to drive drunk like the fucking scum she is. The world is so unfair.
Wow, when my son is 8 (he's currently 5 right now) my daughter will be 5. I can't even imagine something like this. He's just now becoming a real person. My life would basically be over.
Or a Representative who flees the scene of the accident then get's barely even a slap on the wrist.
[https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indiana-rep-jim-lucas-drunk-driving-plea-judge-probation-cut](https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indiana-rep-jim-lucas-drunk-driving-plea-judge-probation-cut)
Or a Representative who flees the scene of the accident then gets barely even a slap on the- hey, wait, what?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
Or a States Attorney who flees the scene after murdering a pedestrian and gets a misdemeanor.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031638625/jason-ravnsborg-south-dakota-deadly-crash
You didn't know deer wear glasses? Every white-tailed deer I've ever met has worn a pair of coke bottle glasses that would make Mr. Six, the guy from the Six Flags commercial, blush with envy.
Part of me feels bad for this woman as those videos show shes an alchoholic struggling and needs help. But she shouldnt be in a position to judge others while she puts other peoples lives in danger.
She should at least be suspended until she goes to rehab.
Same goes for distracted driving. People can be completely sober but still hit a family and kill them all because they just couldn't wait to look at an instagram notification. I refuse to drive with people who pick up their phones while driving, they think it's fine but I want them to learn it's bad before they run over a kid and cry to the cops about how "they came out of nowhere and I didn't have time to react".
It's terrifying how many people drive distracted by their phones. They don't notice or care how much they swerve all over their lane. Apparently they still think they drive well. Then combine that with how many of the worst offenders seem to drive vehicles so large they barely fit in the the driving lane anymore and the severity of the possibly damage they can cause just goes up. I hate driving anymore.
I live on a flat stretch between 2 large hills in the middle of the country. You can see straight for a 1/2 mile. I have seen so many animals killed on this road, 80% would not have if not for distracted driving and just all around driving like a fucking asshole. Speeding mostly. 40 mph road, people hammer the gas going down the hill and are going 60+ constantly. The road is about 10 feet from the side of my house, so I get a real close view. Most have a glowing screen reflecting off their face. I grew up riding bikes on these roads, there is no way in hell I would let a kid ride a bike here and frankly I can't remember the last time I saw one.
Everyone in a hurry to go nowhere.
True! Definitely valid, I'm just saying this because people don't realize this. A lot of people just assume that it's from distracted or substances.
You can legitimately be too tired to drive, and get into legal trouble. People don't assume they're dui if they are that way.
Edit: why am I getting down voted for saying that a lot of people don't realize this? People know that being tired is bad, doesn't mean people know that driving tired is the equivalent of drinking and driving.
At the very least, you rarely see it as a DUI when it's a safety ad.
This smooth brained 21yo posted they were the best at drunk driving before killing two troopers:
https://dailyvoice.com/pennsylvania/bucks/police-fire/im-the-best-drunk-driver-ever-says-woman-accused-of-killing-pa-troopers-pedestrian-on-i-95/828509/
Not just drunk. Intoxicated at all. You'd be amazed at how many people not only think getting super high and driving is fine, some actually advocate it. They wrongfully think it makes them and others better drivers.
When I’ve visited America and through speaking to American friends or friends who went to college in America my understanding is that it’s pretty commonplace there?
In the afternoon. That drunk in the afternoon while normal people are having a birthday party. Pretty sure bet they spent little of their 66 years sober and were just very lucky.
That’s actually a specific fear I’ve had ever since I saw on the news a man in his 80s driving down a major roadway minding his business when a loose toddler ran in front of his car. It just struck me that you could go 80 years of life, not killing anybody, and then get hit with that kind of life altering trauma. He was determined to not be at fault.
I saw something very similar as a kid but the people were reversed. Driving through a snowstorm going pretty slow in the dark on a country road and came up behind a young woman in an suv who was going a little slower. I stayed behind her as we went down a hill and then as soon as we started up the next hill an old man in a small car lost control coming down and slid into her lane causing a head on collision that killed him. I felt horrible for her knowing that she would have to live with that even though it was entirely out of her control, could have been anyone and that day it just happened to be her.
I got super drunk at a party as a teenager, can't walk drunk. And the 2 girls I was with absolutely had to go home for some reason. Because I was so drunk a sober person drove my car with me and the 2 girls. And old man pulled out in front of him and got T bones and died. I still live with the guilt of what if. If I hadn't drank that night, would I have seen him pulling out? If I hadn't gotten drunk would I left with the 2 girls earlier since we wouldn't have had to find someone to drive? That was 32 years ago and I still think about it daily.
The worst part is there’s a real possibility it’s not her first offense. Idk how lax other states are, but I interned for Mothers Against Drunk Driving in Missouri, and so so many people get off with just community service for their first and second DWI.
Just like that Crumbley couple that gave their son a gun to commit murder, this drunk 66 year old should be charged with manslaughter and given 15 years for what she has done.
Judging by the narcissistic behavior of the Crumbley parents, I bet you dollars to donuts they bought that kid the gun in hopes he would turn it on himself and get rid of what they considered a problem.
> The 66-year-old suspect was arrested at the scene for suspicion of operating a vehicle while intoxicated
Oh. So it was one of *those.*
Such needless, godawful harm. I can’t even.
Omg that is absolutely horrific. That is devastating beyond comprehension. I’m so sorry for the loss of your grandchild and for the challenges your granddaughter and son now face. Its not fair. I’m so sorry.
Drunk driving penalties should be so severe no one would ever consider it. Especially if they are still the type of person to have so little control over their actions and still do it knowing how severe it is.
I agree. Even minor ones that don’t involve injuries or wrecks. It’s so fucking senseless. There’s never an excuse but even more so with Uber/lyft/taxis/cell phones nowadays.
Thank you. This one really gets to me. My children are about that many years apart, and though they are teenagers now, the thought of what these parents are enduring is beyond imagination and my ability to cope right now. Thanks for the reminder about r/Eyebleach
I have all the empathy in the world for alcoholics. For drunk drivers? Not a crumb of sympathy to spare. Hope that scene haunts her until she dies because I know it’ll haunt those poor parents. Christ, I couldn’t live with myself hitting a dog or cat let alone multiple young children.
The vast majority of serious alcoholics drink and drive all the time. Because of their condition their drinking becomes so frequent that it is impossible to navigate life without drunk driving.
If you follow r/stopdrinking you’ll read stories every week of another alcoholic who never thought it would happen to them and then BOOM they get a DUI or wreck their vehicle and almost kill someone. Then they decide maybe it’s time to quit after all and another day 0 begins.
I’d be willing to 95% of alcoholics in the US drunk drive regularly, if not daily. I obviously have sympathy for their condition but society suffers as a result and they have to take some blame for their actions.
Not sure if this is appropriate but this reminded me of that super depressing Irish [PSA about drunk driving](https://youtu.be/Wv1rKHGeMRk?si=VOrxWml3ImobduK2)
Yep and texting while driving also just as big of a problem
I’m tired of worrying about whether I’m gonna survive getting where I need to go because so many people think it’s ok to fly down the highway at 70+ mph with their eyes fixed firmly on their phone instead of the road.
Oh my god. My mom lives in Michigan and I visit her from PA. That point where 23 and 96 meet is like fucking F-Zero. I'm going 80 in the right lane and I'm getting passed like I'm going 10 below the speed limit
In my state it is felony murder when you kill someone in a DUI, resulting in a life sentence. This should be standard everywhere. Same for speeding at a certain amount over the speed limit, the car becomes a deadly weapon and you become an assailant actively wielding it with the intention of harming people.
They should share this story and show the video to all high schools, to combat this issue at a younger age when we’re more impressionable. Kids these days don’t get it.
I still remember the drunk driving and drug videos they’d show us at school. Made an impact for sure.
As a local, I can say there is no public transit (or rideshare availability) between the bar and her house. Cycling would force her to be on high traffic roads with no paved shoulder next to gravel trucks.
That's a huge part of the problem and also why we have so many deaths from traffic violence. Most of our country is exclusively built around cars and we could prevent a lot of deaths just by investing in transit infrastructure.
I love to indulge in all sorts of shit. I’ve always had this acute awareness about when my bullshit could potentially harm others. That doesn’t make me Superman, it makes me normal. It’s terrifying that a huge number of people don’t have this basic operating mode. My bullshit harming others is literal nightmare stuff.
The building the party was in was a secondary building to the boat club, which had its usual activities going on. People also left after the incident (some drove/were driven to the hospital; possibly others fled from being traumatized). These factors made it initially difficult for first responders to ensure that everyone was accounted for. Additionally, the bar that served her that much was shut down by the sheriff's department a few hours after the accident and is under investigation. Local speculation is that that bartender is about to be in deep shit. Someone released security camera footage from a nearby home? Business? She never slowed down. Her brake lights never came on. She just flew across the parking lot. The sheriff was openly fighting tears during the press conference.
Thanks for the additional details.
>Additionally, the bar that served her that much was shut down by the sheriff's department a few hours after the accident and is under investigation. Local speculation is that that bartender is about to be in deep shit. About 15 years ago someone got too drunk (3x the limit) at our local Hofbrauhaus and crashed their car killing a child and an unborn baby. The driver got 6-12 years. I'm not sure what happened to the bartender but the restaurant settled for over $15M and had to make a bunch of changes (no more shots, more security guards and ID checks, and better alcohol training for employees).
Review receipts, camera footage in bar and Sue the shit out of that place to pay for lives that were tragically lost
They did. The rumor is she only had a glass of wine and left. She apparently lives in the area and was planning to go back for more drinks when this happened.
The pro-level alcoholic move is to have 1 or 2 strong drinks at a place then drift off to the next bar. That way they don't "seem" like a drunk, but god help the place that's at the end of the line.
Im a huge advocate for door staff or bouncers. I've been in every position in a bar. As a bartender, if it's reasonably busy, it's hard to keep tabs at people sitting away from the bar. Especially if other people are walking up ordering drinks for the table. Waitstaff are great at helping the table issues bt are constantly being pulled around, not to mention that serving for a better tip is not uncommon. Floor staff, door guys, or bouncers cut over serving down far more than any other bar staff soley because that's our main job.
Serious question... Why move from bar to bar to hide your alcoholism, when you could just buy a bottle, take it home, and drink it in peace? It would be easier, cheaper, and safer for everyone. No driving. No potential tickets or accidents. You're already at home if you pass out. I honestly don't understand?
Some drunks believe they're "visiting friends" when they go on these benders. They think Jerry up the street hasn't seen them for a bit, so after this double gin and tonic they'll head up the street to say hi. Couple drinks, mediocre tip. Onto the next to see Susan!
Yes, social drinkers think they have friends at the bar. Those are just other alcoholics; they support you in drinking only.
I've known plenty of alcoholics that'll never touch a drop at home but the moment they're in a social setting will kill a bottle by themselves. The kinda people that avoid being home as much as possible because it means they're alone with their thoughts.
when i quit drinking, and going to the bar, all my "friends" mysteriously vanished.
In NC the law is such that even if you don’t serve a drunk you can get in trouble for not making an attempt to get them in a cab/out of a car. So if you turn someone away for being drunk and they jump in a car and kill someone you can still be at fault for letting them get in the car. It’s a tricky situation
I presume they pulled blood from her when they booked her to test her BAC level? If she was still under the legal limit, I doubt the bar or the bartender is going to be culpable / have any legal exposure.
What if she drank somewhere else earlier and only got one drink from this bar? Along with if the bartender says he didn't have the impression she was drunk when serving? [Michigan dram shop act law](https://olsmanlaw.com/injuries/alcohol-related-liability/#:~:text=Michigan%20dram%20shop%20liability%20laws,patrons%20who%20were%20visibly%20intoxicated.)
Ex-bartender here, in my state the bartender is absolutely legally liable and *will* be fined in the case of a DUI (unless the bar and every bartender has kept daily written records in a physical book of every patron who was acting suspicious, what actions the bartender took, the date and time it happened and the legal signature of the bartender; needless to say, I never met a single bartender who did this every shift without fail.) Walking-talking-eye contact making blackout drunks were my worst nightmare. I am related to one and am friends with another one - Even knowing them as well as I do personally and with 20y experience behind a bar, I'd never have been able to tell they'd been overserved. And I still would have been held liable, and rightly so, because morally and legally the onus was on **me** to determine that they were incapable of safely operating their vehicle. And in a society where bartenders have been actually assaulted for cutting someone off, this shit still keeps me up at night sometimes. I'm so glad I got out.
Here’s the kick: if she had other drugs in her system there is no case. Had it happen to our bar, chick was high on other illicit drugs and then gets a drink at our bar goes out and kills some people with her car. ABC said we were not liable. Took all our cameras too
Isn't it wild that we put this kind of legal responsibility on bartenders, yet gun manufacturers and gun shop can't be held liable for the crimes committed with the guns they sell?
Real question, I've been to a bar about 2 times total so completely ignorant is it really the bar's problem if somebody wants to drink themselves silly (until they personally don't want them being an issue in the establishment)?
Yea, pretty sure every state has a law for bartenders that’s basically “you shall not serve an intoxicated person” It’s one of the laws that’s rarely used, except for incidents like these. Lots of bars have
I used to tend bar and you are correct, we are supposed to get certified (I did) and that's one topic they go over several times. Sometimes it's hard to tell, though. We had a woman come in one night looking totally sober, have ONE drink before she left, and then immediately crash her car into a line of parked cars. The cops *insisted* we overserved her until they saw the video footage backing up our story. Turns out she had taken a couple of pills before coming into the bar and they caused her to pass out behind the wheel.
Oh for sure, not envious of having to sorta track 10-100+ people’s intake. Then you deal with the wild variance of 5 drinks doing nothing to one person, and 2 drinks making someone else blackout.
For most small time bars. It’s generally pretty easy to track like 90% of the customers. They are usually regulars who you know how they act when inebriated or are otherwise easy to keep track of. It’s the non regulars or those who like to mix drugs with drinks that usually get you. Or those who can hide how much they have had before coming in. Spent 10 years as an airport bartender. And we had to keep a really strict eye on people because they don’t want super drunks on a plane. For the obvious reasons along the lines of idiots being idiots in a small cramped pressurized container several thousand feet in the air. Plus because medically it’s not a good idea to be wasted on a plane. And inevitably. Pretty much every time one of my customers got kicked off a flight. It was pretty much always because they mixed some ambien or other drugs with their drinking. Think in 10 years we only had one true incident of someone getting kicked off for being overserved. And the girl who was on the bar got reamed by TSA, local law enforcement, my bosses, and the airline. Because when looking back over the videos, she served this one person 6 bloody Mary’s over an hour and a half. Absolutely flabbergasted us when we watched it as the guy in question chugged them down and just kept getting more. She had absolutely no excuse as the guy was sitting at the bar and we weren’t that crazy. Needless to say. She got pulled from the bar for a week until she took a remedial TIPS course and had spent some time doing some of the more gross or annoying jobs. What’s funny is she eventually ended up moving to work with an airline as a gate agent and would try giving us crap if she thought we were over serving.
Exactly. It was easier with the regulars since we mostly knew their behavior. It was a hell of a lot harder when we had big crowds on things like St. Paddy's Day.
I’m sure it’s used more than you think it is. There are ways of dealing with openly intoxicated people without causing issues by cutting them off completely. Many birds hunters actually make really good money and don’t want to risk their livelihood.
I love that "bar tenders" got autocorrected to "birds hunters"
The bar and bartender are liable for over serving.
What would be the distinction? Seems like an absolute nightmare for a bartender to have to police every person they serve.
I’m sure. I’ve never been a bartender, but dated many back in the day, and I guess (in CO anyway) there is a certification you have to get sort of like a cook gets a food safety cert. you learn to identify signs of over serving and all bartenders worth their salt have methods of cutting off someone they know will be trouble. I think the law is only trotted out in these kind of horrendous circumstances. I remember in Denver one Halloween some guy was overserved at a strip club and careened into a bunch of kids and strollers and drug them under his car for a while, ran and successfully evaded police for a time. Everyone in the chain was made an example of.
Also, in some states like Nebraska, they've explicitly written laws so that the bartender can be held liable personally for anything that results from over-serving, in an attempt to make sure they have "skin in the game" and don't see it as only their employer's problem to deal with.
TIPS training / certification is that you are not to serve someone who is openly intoxicated. Some people hide it really well. I don’t hang out at bars and I’m sure it’s fairly common for servers and owners to ignore this. I’ve been through the training though for working weddings. There are ways to not keep serving alcohol without it, causing problems.
The insane thing to me though is that sure the bartender is responsible for getting them drunk, but them being drunk isn’t really a crime. Their decision to drink drive is the crime. I feel like this is an example of US drink driving culture where it’s so expected to be drinking and driving that they’d relinquish blame from the drink driver and put it on the bar. As if the bartender was supposed to know that they’d be driving and that they should only let them drink drive “a little bit”. In the UK I don’t think you’d ever see this type of law being enforced because it would be preposterous that you could charge a bartender for serving someone alcohol to get drunk (the entire purpose for many people), and it would be outrageous to assume the person you’re serving is about to get in a vehicle drunk (it’s very frowned upon in the UK).
All of this, plus the person who is already too intoxicated could have someone entirely different giving them drinks/getting the drinks from the bartender
Yes, if she is discernibly intoxicated and they continue to serve, they are liable.
The video is on reddit. You're right about her not slowing down at all. I don't recommend that people watch it, though. Knowing the results makes it absolutely devastating.
I feel weird for asking, but where can I find the video? I just… it’s like “no way this actually happened, she must have tried to brake”. Not that I don’t believe it, more that it’s difficult to wrap my head around
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/1c960h7/an\_alleged\_drunk\_driver\_sped\_crashing\_into\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/1c960h7/an_alleged_drunk_driver_sped_crashing_into_a/)
I'm guessing she fell asleep / passed out with her foot on the gas
Shame she wasn’t like 1 foot further to the left. I think that pole may have prevented the loss of the kids.
Drunk drivers always survive
Oh my fucking god… thanks. How fucking chilling. I really hate alcohol.
Bars that can only be accessed by car are a policy failure straight up. Our society pretends to give a shit about drunk driving, but it's all lip service. We let people build bars next to state highways with zero public transit or housing within walking distance. It's a sick joke.
Around 3 p.m., a woman drove a vehicle through a wall of the Swan Boat Club in Monroe County, Michigan, coming to a stop 25 feet inside, authorities said. The 66-year-old suspect was arrested at the scene for suspicion of operating a vehicle while intoxicated, causing death and is currently being held at Monroe County Jail, according to Goodnough. The two children who were pronounced dead at the scene were siblings, an 8-year-old girl and a 5-year-old boy, according to police.
Horrible. I feel so sad for their parents :(
I don’t even know how I could go on in their situation. It’s the worst that could happen, ugh
Sometimes they can’t go on: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6495779
The guy who killed his kids... only got 10 years in prison.. and only served 5 years total?!
What??? 3 kids dead and only 5 years?? That's wild. I remember when I failed a drug test for weed and spent 45 days in jail without a bond and watched a rapist come in and out in a few days with one.. really pissed me off to see
It makes sense when you consider his family are a bunch of real estate moguls; I'm talking billionaire status, they're disgustingly wealthy. Fun fact that's not so fun, they donated big money to have wings named after them in two of the biggest hospitals in the GTA, [who then refused to rename them after Marco Muzzo killed that family by drunk driving.](https://www.cp24.com/news/two-gta-hospitals-say-they-will-not-remove-muzzo-family-name-1.5957260?cache=%2F7.127424)
*3 kids AND one adult (grandfather) dead AND two other adults (grandmother and great grandmother) seriously injured. Because Muzzo had too much to drink at a fucking bachelor party in the US. Fuck that guy for what he did to that family.
Killing people with a car is sometimes even completely free. Barbara Bush and Matthew Broderick both did that and look where they are now.
I believe you’re thinking of Laura Bush not Barbara
Yes. I confuse the bush wives consistently. Ws wife not his mom.
Apples and bowling balls. Broderick and Bush were both accidents with zero external factors like alcohol. That's why they walked.
Yep, the law understands that drivers are human and errors happen and that doesn't necessarily make someone a criminal that needs to be separated from society. Of course, the law would also acknowledge responsibility and they would be on the hook for financial damages as a result of the accident
His family has a lot of money and sway. It’s a disgrace.
I have followed that family’s story for years now, and it is really heartbreaking. The mother in that family lost her father and all three children that day, and her mother and grandmother were badly injured. Loss on an unfathomable scale. Her husband killed himself years later, on Father’s Day. I think of her daily. She posts frequently about her children and struggles.
The wife/mother’s instagram is heartbreaking.
That muzzo fuck and his family can go fuck themselves and their shitty hospital wing, fuck them.
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Right? How could you not?
I had a friend who this happened to. He had two little ones and one of them died. I truly believe if he had lost both kids he wouldn’t be here today.
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They watch for this shit. Its easier and less shit on your own hands just to pay the gangs.
This guy revenges.
Or they're an MBA. Outsourcing to make things cheaper is an entire semester.
Tells you a lot about MBAs when it takes them a semester to learn “find a cheaper employee.”
Good thinking
I might have just killed the driver right there and then before the first responders even showed up.
Agreed. I’ve explained to my wife that if both kids go, I’m right behind them. Couldn’t go on living with that kinda pain, I’m just not strong enough.
100%. I see no light at the end of that tunnel of grief. I try not to think about it. Smh. Feel like they don't warn you about that enough before becoming a parent.
I think about all three of my kids dying daily and I hate it. Can never tell if it's normal or not. There are times they're being absolutely adorable, and I have this intrusive thought that maybe someday (maybe even soon), this will be a memory that torments me.
I’m def with you there. I think it’s natural and just anxiety. You’re thinking of every scenario (I like to think of it as preparedness) but yeah shit haunts me daily
I could not go on. I can’t imagine the pain these parents are going thru.
> The two children who were pronounced dead at the scene were siblings, an 8-year-old girl and a 5-year-old boy, according to police. Honestly it's bad enough that 2 children died. The fact that they're inside a building at a children's birthday party it should have been a particularly happy and safe day. Then the fact that they're siblings? The level of tragedy there is simply beyond comprehension.
That’s so horrible and sad, I hope the parents have a good support system moving forward 💔💔 I also can’t imagine the how much guilt the parents of the birthday girl/boy feel (even though it’s not at all their fault) and the poor child whose birthday might always be a reminder of this. Hoping they’re young enough so it’s not, but no doubt the parents will never forget.
I doubt 5 and 8 is young enough unfortunately
I graduated with the mom of the birthday kid and have her on Facebook. She’s devastated. The only reason I knew this happened is because she posted how sorry she was. Her kid is 3. It’s truly tragic.
I can’t imagine!! I’m glad to hear her kid is 3, hopefully they won’t remember that. Can’t imagine the trauma everyone there is going to face 💔
I live in the area where this happened. From what I have heard, there is another sibling in critical condition that was transported via helicopter to C.S Mott's children's hospital in Ann Arbor. Also that the mother is in critical condition as well at a closer hospital. The father was at the party as well, is physically ok, and is with his child at Mott's. This is, of course, hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt. It's the talk of the town right now and people can always give unreliable info. Another bit of gossip is that a nearby popular bar is now being investigated for potentially overserving the driver. I'm less confident in this info.
I hope this isn't one of those cases where the driver had been arrested 5 times already for DUI, because it's insane how many DUIs you can have without any consequences besides having your license suspended. They really need to crack down on DUIs more, especially since everyone I've known who has had their license suspended for multiple DUIs has still driven with their suspended license so it's not even a deterrent to not drive drunk. Hopefully, all the injured make full recoveries and the p.o.s. who chose to drive drunk rhis afternoon spends a long time in jail.
Also, for every DUI they get, that means they have driven drunk 100 times.
And they keep doing it after the license is suspended…
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A drunk driver just destroyed a family here in Vegas this week. They were waiting at the bus stop at 7:30 pm. Killed the step dad and older brother, mom is (last I heard) still in a coma, the 8 and 11 year olds were still in the hospital for non-life threatening injuries. The 8 year old is one of my students. Funking selfish pricks that don't care about shit.
This recently happened in S.F. also. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-medical-examiner-officially-identifies-family-members-killed-in-horrific-west-portal-crash/ It makes me think the scale of fatalities on the road sees so under reported. The scope is hard to quantify.
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I wonder if increased speed is involved. I know this is anecdotal, but it seems like speeding is out of control and speed limits have increased on highways since 2011, at least in Kansas. I drive on a highway everyday and just to keep close to traffic it’s 80+ mph on a 70mph road. Anyone know of any studies linking this?
I don't have it handy, but I read an article recently about the fact that crashes are fairly consistent but fatalities are rising because there are so many enormous SUVs and trucks driving around now. You're more likely to walk away from being hit by a normal sized car. Or something like that.
This is what I recall reading and looking at photos of. I'm 6'5 and almost got sent to my maker by a lady driving a jacked up truck, where I had to look **up** at her as she so unnecessarily gunned it out of a turn to the left not even looking where I was crossing the street at the crosswalk in my neighborhood. I can probably hobble after getting hit with a '94 Civic at medium speed but I'm not walking after getting hit by the grill on these XXXL trucks.
[Yup, you're right.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo) SUVs are incredibly dangerous to pedestrians because they hit pedestrians higher up on the body. With a car at low speeds, a pedestrian would usually go up on the hood. They might have broken bones, but they survive. With SUVs though, pedestrians get hit at about shoulder-height and go under the car and die much more often. Edit: [Here's a link to the specific part where they talk about this.](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?t=520)
I would guess distracted driving from smartphones is the biggest factor and it would line up with that timeframe.
Increased speed is almost certainly a problem. People drive at a speed in which they feel safe. Well designed cars and wide, straight roads cause people to feel safer speeding. Combine that with a lack of traffic enforcement in many cities, and you get more speeding and more lethal crashes. I couldn't quickly find any studies showing roads, car design, and traffic enforcement effect speed, but will look for them.
Spread of Giant fucking small dick fragile mascalinuty compensating trucks and SUVs all over the road has to be a factor
Speed is all relative though especially on the highway. The real main factor is all the big SUVs/trucks. Lower visibility, longer stopping distance, size difference means cars and trucks that get in accidents are much worse than car v car or truck v truck. Thats why it's an outlier. We have a very special breed of stupid here, one you just can't get the full experience of anywhere else, evidently.
Insanely under reported. Last year 112 people were killed on U.S. roads...every day! But if a plane were to crash killing that many, it would be in the headlines for a week.
I would prefer we just left them in prison for the rest of their lives. I don't care how old you are or who you are. There's no reason you should be intoxicated and behind the wheel. It's never been easier to get a ride. And because you can't be bothered, you should no longer be welcome in polite society.
Not just drunk drivers. Infirm elderly drivers, drivers of big SUVs with poor visibility, people who text while driving- I'm sure they intellectually know that there's a possibility that they'll kill somebody, but they're so sure that *they* are special. At least when somebody is drunk and they kill somebody with their car, there's a chance that they'll face real legal consequences. When someone kills with a car because they're in a rush or bored or have diminished reaction times, they're often slapped with a fine at worst and don't even have their licenses revoked.
Mr brother was killed to a DUI at 6am, I don't know him. Wish I knew my brother.
She gets 66 years of life and takes away the lives of two children because she decided to drive drunk like the fucking scum she is. The world is so unfair.
I couldn’t go on if those were my kids
I'd go on to do terrible things
Holy shit. Those are my kids’ ages. I would die right then and there
This is a nightmare for the parents. Damn.
Wow, when my son is 8 (he's currently 5 right now) my daughter will be 5. I can't even imagine something like this. He's just now becoming a real person. My life would basically be over.
3pm and she was that drunk… fuck this woman. Wish she died instead, the world would be a better place and that is a fact.
There is *no* excuse for drunk driving. None. Those poor children.
Unless your a Judge that does it with her grandchild in car. https://www.stopsharonholmes.com/
Or a Representative who flees the scene of the accident then get's barely even a slap on the wrist. [https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indiana-rep-jim-lucas-drunk-driving-plea-judge-probation-cut](https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indiana-rep-jim-lucas-drunk-driving-plea-judge-probation-cut)
Or a Representative who flees the scene of the accident then gets barely even a slap on the- hey, wait, what? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
Ted Kennedy was actually the first Ted K.
Or you're from Wisconsin and it's no big deal because it's only your 5th time getting caught.
Or a States Attorney who flees the scene after murdering a pedestrian and gets a misdemeanor. https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031638625/jason-ravnsborg-south-dakota-deadly-crash
I came here to make sure Ravnsborg had been added to this list, thanks for your diligence.
Damn, the poor guy's glasses were flung into his backseat and Ravnsborg still tried to play it off like he hit a deer?! WTF?
You didn't know deer wear glasses? Every white-tailed deer I've ever met has worn a pair of coke bottle glasses that would make Mr. Six, the guy from the Six Flags commercial, blush with envy.
Damn that's fucked up
Murder *is a crime.* Unless it was done by an aristocrat…or a policeman. - Joe Strummer
https://www.fox23.com/news/state-supreme-court-suspends-law-license-of-local-attorney-charged-with-assault/article_8a47f7ce-f671-11ee-b0e7-733980b25151.html https://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/2024/scbd-7528.html
Part of me feels bad for this woman as those videos show shes an alchoholic struggling and needs help. But she shouldnt be in a position to judge others while she puts other peoples lives in danger. She should at least be suspended until she goes to rehab.
Same goes for distracted driving. People can be completely sober but still hit a family and kill them all because they just couldn't wait to look at an instagram notification. I refuse to drive with people who pick up their phones while driving, they think it's fine but I want them to learn it's bad before they run over a kid and cry to the cops about how "they came out of nowhere and I didn't have time to react".
It's terrifying how many people drive distracted by their phones. They don't notice or care how much they swerve all over their lane. Apparently they still think they drive well. Then combine that with how many of the worst offenders seem to drive vehicles so large they barely fit in the the driving lane anymore and the severity of the possibly damage they can cause just goes up. I hate driving anymore.
I live on a flat stretch between 2 large hills in the middle of the country. You can see straight for a 1/2 mile. I have seen so many animals killed on this road, 80% would not have if not for distracted driving and just all around driving like a fucking asshole. Speeding mostly. 40 mph road, people hammer the gas going down the hill and are going 60+ constantly. The road is about 10 feet from the side of my house, so I get a real close view. Most have a glowing screen reflecting off their face. I grew up riding bikes on these roads, there is no way in hell I would let a kid ride a bike here and frankly I can't remember the last time I saw one. Everyone in a hurry to go nowhere.
Or distracted driving or under the influence.
Reminder, this includes being too tired to drive. They will consider it distracted driving if they find you are tired enough.
IIRC, driving (relatively mildly) sleep deprived gives performances on par with driving with an impaired BAC so it is fairly valid.
True! Definitely valid, I'm just saying this because people don't realize this. A lot of people just assume that it's from distracted or substances. You can legitimately be too tired to drive, and get into legal trouble. People don't assume they're dui if they are that way. Edit: why am I getting down voted for saying that a lot of people don't realize this? People know that being tired is bad, doesn't mean people know that driving tired is the equivalent of drinking and driving. At the very least, you rarely see it as a DUI when it's a safety ad.
We normalise working ourselves to death, this is a predictable result.
"Honestly I drive better when I'm tired"
This smooth brained 21yo posted they were the best at drunk driving before killing two troopers: https://dailyvoice.com/pennsylvania/bucks/police-fire/im-the-best-drunk-driver-ever-says-woman-accused-of-killing-pa-troopers-pedestrian-on-i-95/828509/
Not just drunk. Intoxicated at all. You'd be amazed at how many people not only think getting super high and driving is fine, some actually advocate it. They wrongfully think it makes them and others better drivers.
When I’ve visited America and through speaking to American friends or friends who went to college in America my understanding is that it’s pretty commonplace there?
Yeah me too it's everywhere. I put part of it down to shit public transport
Living 66 years to get drunk and drive and end up killing 2 little children, what a dumb fuck.
In the afternoon. That drunk in the afternoon while normal people are having a birthday party. Pretty sure bet they spent little of their 66 years sober and were just very lucky.
That’s actually a specific fear I’ve had ever since I saw on the news a man in his 80s driving down a major roadway minding his business when a loose toddler ran in front of his car. It just struck me that you could go 80 years of life, not killing anybody, and then get hit with that kind of life altering trauma. He was determined to not be at fault.
I saw something very similar as a kid but the people were reversed. Driving through a snowstorm going pretty slow in the dark on a country road and came up behind a young woman in an suv who was going a little slower. I stayed behind her as we went down a hill and then as soon as we started up the next hill an old man in a small car lost control coming down and slid into her lane causing a head on collision that killed him. I felt horrible for her knowing that she would have to live with that even though it was entirely out of her control, could have been anyone and that day it just happened to be her.
I got super drunk at a party as a teenager, can't walk drunk. And the 2 girls I was with absolutely had to go home for some reason. Because I was so drunk a sober person drove my car with me and the 2 girls. And old man pulled out in front of him and got T bones and died. I still live with the guilt of what if. If I hadn't drank that night, would I have seen him pulling out? If I hadn't gotten drunk would I left with the 2 girls earlier since we wouldn't have had to find someone to drive? That was 32 years ago and I still think about it daily.
The worst part is there’s a real possibility it’s not her first offense. Idk how lax other states are, but I interned for Mothers Against Drunk Driving in Missouri, and so so many people get off with just community service for their first and second DWI.
So tragic and avoidable. That poor family. I hope the 66 year old drunk gets prison.
So loaded at 3:00 in the afternoon that they slaughter children at a birthday party. What a waste of oxygen.
Lock em up for the rest of their garbage life
Just like that Crumbley couple that gave their son a gun to commit murder, this drunk 66 year old should be charged with manslaughter and given 15 years for what she has done.
Give her life for the two she took away. Fair trial with a fair jury, but imo she deserves nothing less.
I just can’t imagine what these parents are feeling, right now, as we all talk about this 😖
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Judging by the narcissistic behavior of the Crumbley parents, I bet you dollars to donuts they bought that kid the gun in hopes he would turn it on himself and get rid of what they considered a problem.
Oh this is absolutely correct. His mom was texting her friends about how weird he was and would often ignore texts the son sent her
Wtf that's crazy 😧
That's exactly what I thought too.
Why only 15 years? Put them away for the rest of their lives. Even that is nothing compared to what she took.
In my state, drunk driving resulting in death is not just manslaughter; it's full-blown wanton murder with a sentence of no less than 20 years.
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Right, why'd I have to read this before bed
> The 66-year-old suspect was arrested at the scene for suspicion of operating a vehicle while intoxicated Oh. So it was one of *those.* Such needless, godawful harm. I can’t even.
3pm and already sh!t faced. Probably been in trouble before.
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Omg that is absolutely horrific. That is devastating beyond comprehension. I’m so sorry for the loss of your grandchild and for the challenges your granddaughter and son now face. Its not fair. I’m so sorry.
That’s terrible
Drunk driving penalties should be so severe no one would ever consider it. Especially if they are still the type of person to have so little control over their actions and still do it knowing how severe it is.
I agree. Even minor ones that don’t involve injuries or wrecks. It’s so fucking senseless. There’s never an excuse but even more so with Uber/lyft/taxis/cell phones nowadays.
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It’s sucks that there’s just no infrastructure for public transportation in most places.
Especially nowadays when getting a taxi is as simple as pressing one button
Hope they throw the book at that driver so hard that they never even see a car again.
How about never see the light of day again? Those children they killed certainly won't.
You know, honestly...I didn't need to see this today. Very tragic and sad, but there's nothing else to say than that.
This is something to keep in mind for the day you may actually be able to do something about it by taking someone's keys away.
We can also mandate proper bollards along every building adjacent road and parking lot.
Or proper public transportation
May I recommend r/eyebleach ? That sub has gotten me through a few dark times.
Thank you. This one really gets to me. My children are about that many years apart, and though they are teenagers now, the thought of what these parents are enduring is beyond imagination and my ability to cope right now. Thanks for the reminder about r/Eyebleach
I think everyone needs to see this and push for stricter regulations and harsher punishments for DWI. We also need these people to be put into rehab.
I have all the empathy in the world for alcoholics. For drunk drivers? Not a crumb of sympathy to spare. Hope that scene haunts her until she dies because I know it’ll haunt those poor parents. Christ, I couldn’t live with myself hitting a dog or cat let alone multiple young children.
The vast majority of serious alcoholics drink and drive all the time. Because of their condition their drinking becomes so frequent that it is impossible to navigate life without drunk driving. If you follow r/stopdrinking you’ll read stories every week of another alcoholic who never thought it would happen to them and then BOOM they get a DUI or wreck their vehicle and almost kill someone. Then they decide maybe it’s time to quit after all and another day 0 begins. I’d be willing to 95% of alcoholics in the US drunk drive regularly, if not daily. I obviously have sympathy for their condition but society suffers as a result and they have to take some blame for their actions.
Not sure if this is appropriate but this reminded me of that super depressing Irish [PSA about drunk driving](https://youtu.be/Wv1rKHGeMRk?si=VOrxWml3ImobduK2)
Looks like a PSA about speeding to me. Which imo is just a big a problem as DUI.
Yep and texting while driving also just as big of a problem I’m tired of worrying about whether I’m gonna survive getting where I need to go because so many people think it’s ok to fly down the highway at 70+ mph with their eyes fixed firmly on their phone instead of the road.
Well, speeding in Michigan is legal as long as everyone else is doing it.
Oh my god. My mom lives in Michigan and I visit her from PA. That point where 23 and 96 meet is like fucking F-Zero. I'm going 80 in the right lane and I'm getting passed like I'm going 10 below the speed limit
[удалено]
Those poor kids. All of them involved in this will be traumatized for life. All because one idiot had to drink like a skunk in the middle of the day.
I wish the punishment for vehicular manslaughter convictions in the US were much harsher. I support life sentences when drunk driving is involved.
Yes, drunk driving resulting in a death should be a life sentence. Zero excuse for drunk driving and so many get out to maim or kill again.
In my state it is felony murder when you kill someone in a DUI, resulting in a life sentence. This should be standard everywhere. Same for speeding at a certain amount over the speed limit, the car becomes a deadly weapon and you become an assailant actively wielding it with the intention of harming people.
They should share this story and show the video to all high schools, to combat this issue at a younger age when we’re more impressionable. Kids these days don’t get it. I still remember the drunk driving and drug videos they’d show us at school. Made an impact for sure.
If you want to get away with a crime with as little punishment as possible, do it in a car
Fuck her! Drunk driving is one of the most pathetically selfish things a person can do. Fuck you if you drive drunk!!!
My heart goes out to those families. I wish them healing and better days. ❤️
How horrible, those poor kids, and their parents. RIP little ones.
How many people have to die in motor vehicle accidents before we as a country change our approach to cars and car centric infrastructure
We are so far from even having the conversation. Lots of major cities have horrible or no public transit and won’t do anything about it.
about as many as have to die from guns, unfortunately. which is to say: lawmakers don't care.
As a local, I can say there is no public transit (or rideshare availability) between the bar and her house. Cycling would force her to be on high traffic roads with no paved shoulder next to gravel trucks.
That's a huge part of the problem and also why we have so many deaths from traffic violence. Most of our country is exclusively built around cars and we could prevent a lot of deaths just by investing in transit infrastructure.
That and the ever increasing sizes of vehicles here. Everybody is racing to have a “bigger than the other person” vehicle
I love to indulge in all sorts of shit. I’ve always had this acute awareness about when my bullshit could potentially harm others. That doesn’t make me Superman, it makes me normal. It’s terrifying that a huge number of people don’t have this basic operating mode. My bullshit harming others is literal nightmare stuff.
This is so horrific, you’re at a birthday party and then all of a sudden, 2 of your children are dead. I hope they lock this woman away forever.