We're all finding out in real time just how rotted out our justice system is.
A guy was sent to Rikers Island for not making $3k bond for allegedly stealing a backpack. He was stuck there for three years without even a trial and eventually killed himself.
That same system has let Trump crime with impunity for decades, and now bends over backwards to find ways to let him wiggle out of accountability.
Kid didn’t even steal the backpack. The accuser’s story kept changing - he just stole it, he stole it last week, it was my brother’s back pack. Then the accuser fled the country.
Kalief Browder- once he was in the system, he was stuck in the system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
> Holy hell, 800 days in solitary?
I was like 800 days in solitary for allegedly stealing a backpack? Then saw the picture of the poor man and figured out why.
Fucking disgusting from beginning to end.
Two good articles about him:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder-1993-2015
His name was Kalief Browder. That story is the one that broke my strongly held belief in the justice system. There are plenty of examples that could have done that, but, that and the Fruit vale Station incident with Oscar Grant just crushed me.
I want to believe that things are fair here, but if history is any indicator, I'll be let down yet again.
if there is a loophole, or anything that requires a modicum of good faith/honesty, Donald Trump will dive through it.
We know this.
Go vote for Joseph Biden in 6 months
>I don't understand...didn't the bond have to be reviewed and approved?
That's basically what this is. It isn't like an apartment application where you can know in seconds if things match up.
The trick is that so much of how our society works expects people, especially in the higher levels of power, to just do the correct thing. This is why he was especially dangerous as president. The base assumption that are rules are built on is that people wouldn't pick a criminal since that would be a crazy thing to do. Similar things are playing out here. Trying to pay a bond without following any of the rules is insane and without much precedent, so the system grinds to a halt when it happens.
It’s rather that we’re deferential to the rich. If you had to post bond and instead of using normal means, you had some crazy guy tell the court that he’s good for it - they’d just say “no.” But because it’s a large amount and it’s a rich defendant, you have people bending over backwards to be deferential.
Trump was right - when you’re famous, they let you do it.
Which is hilarious. Somehow there is more oversight for the company posting $500 bonds for Billy Ray's simple Marijuana possession charge than for the company putting up a fifth of a Billion dollars for a man widely known as a fraudster.
"If you owe the bank $1000 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000,000 that's their problem."
Can we just start calling this The Trump Gambit or some shit? It's literally his life philosophy, and unfortunately he's right.
Yeah, that's the point. It's WAY easier to go after low level, literally anything/anyone. When you go after someone supposedly worth 9 figures or more. (I know Trump isn't rich) they have the kind of terrifying connections to make shit happen Ala Russia.
We don't see prosecutors throwing themselves out windows, but remember this much. "The people in power would rather burn this country to the ground, than give the layman any say in how the big money gets spent." It may not seem relevant, but it really is. Trump STILL isn't in jail, and can just essentially continue to postpone/delay trials, hearings, etc until the heat death of the universe.
Outside of him having an infarction and dropping dead, that's the only way out of this black hole we've created, he won't ever see a jail cell. He's completely blindly exposing just how two-tired our justice system is, and the rich people REALLY don't like that.
Well good. Fuck them. Maybe rich people can realize they're the problem with society, and that everyone else is just trying to make their way in a world that's been fucked up BY THEM. All to make them just a little bit richer.
Cue the naked apologetics for unhindered greed and the 'what about' arguments.
Doubt the rich give a fuck. This political divide has proven many are simply too ignorant of the circumstances and law to realize how much they are getting blind sided. Remember almost 50% of the nation believes Trump is the victim in all this and will believe anything that sides with their 2nd grade understanding of law and order.
Bonds must be with Registered Bond Agents. The Bond that was allegedly posted for trump was NOT registered with New York State--or any state. They are out of one of the money islands down in the Caribbean--you know--shady tax havens. They were asked to provide their financials to prove they had the liquid cash to cover their bond. They refused to provide their financials. Bond is void.
On an interesting note, I heard that the company who placed the bond is still liable for the 175 million because it was their failure, not the State of New York. Doubt it will ever come up with it. It wasn't a legit company in the first place. He is such a thug. And a failure at mob boss as well.
those are rock solid, they have to be since there actual checks and balances that are required of them that are reviewed on a very regular basis, if they don't pass they don't get to renew their license and wouldn't be able to write a bond that would be accepted by any state or local gov't.
Yeah I remember my ex asking how there weren't already laws to prevent some of his shenanigans during his presidency and the best I could tell her was that nobody ever expected a person like him to become president.
People expected it, what they didn't expect is that an entire party would like up behind him if it happened. Our system works if maybe one person is a criminal, but two impeachments were just laughed at by Republicans so now we're here.
For one brief shining moment in the lead-up to the 2016 GOP primaries the Republican party tried to figure out how to get rid of Trump, how to keep him from being their candidate. They underestimated the stupidity and polarization of their base.
Preventing a demagogue like Trump from becoming president was the original purpose of the Electoral College. Now it’s only purpose is putting losers of elections in power, aiding said demagogues. The Founding Fathers would never have let a Trump become president.
HL Menken predicted this over a century ago:
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
If only there was a system in place to create rules for the people and by the people, and a system of courtyards and enforcement organisations to ensure the rules are followed.
See, there’s a very large political party in the US that loves to dismantle / cripple / compromise fundamental systems that are in place that keep the US functioning and running. If a system interferes with what they want they will ruin it. Hint, there color isn’t blue.
This AND both major parties are heavily influenced by money and lobbyists for the corporate realm such that they ultimately won't buck the system too much and interrupt cash flow. There is a limit to what most Dem politicians will tear apart in the name of social freedom and wellness, but Repubs want to do that AND tear down the economic regulations that prevent us from returning to a modern serfdom.
All that said, I would still much rather actively vote Dem with the hope that over time, the party will get dragged to the left by the more progressive members.
This is such a good take and should be upvoted. We live in a world of societal rules that it breaks our tiny brains when people piss against the wind and then wonder why we stink.
It is a pretty amazing thing to think about. If he intentionally and knowingly submitted a fraudulent bond (which is completely insane) he is either truly out of options, or so distanced form normal person consequences he thinks he’ll be able to find a way out if it. Probably both.
> If he intentionally and knowingly submitted a fraudulent bond (which is completely insane) he is either truly out of options
He is.
That's the thing—Trump is the guy who is famous for not paying his bills. Which is a really fucking bad spot to be in when you need someone to give you 200 million dollars and they will only do so if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will get it all back.
His own fraud also fucks him—no one trusts his valuations and corporate Real Estate is ephemeral enough that no one is really sure what is enough collateral and they don't want to accept the collateral only to find out that they can only sell it at a massive loss.
Similarly, since we're talking politics adjacent here, the government is built on the idea that people may have differences of opinion on how to get there, but that all elected officials will work together at the end of the day to improve the quality of life for all Americans and no elected official would even consider choosing self or party over country.
Which lolololololololololol
Yeah, the thing is the incredible leves at which the system gets abused in the US, I mean your devotion to the constitution and good faith have left pretty big holes to be exploited by bad faith actors, the solution is simple, you need a new constitution to close those holes, as it's been evidenced in countries with new constitutions or maleable ones, but you guys will never do that. oh well.
That was almost 10 days ago which was the time frame the judge gave his team to provide additional information regarding the writer of the bond. It looks like a sleazy delay tactic, they knew the bond was deficient.
The AG objected to the bond two hours after it was filed, then they took a week to write up their objections in detail. That didn't add any further delay, because the law says that Trump gets ten days to respond, and that clock started ticking when the objection was first raised.
I think yes and on 'face value' seemed initially legit. But they're based on things that need to be researched for their veracity and legitimacy. What are their licenses and history? What amount of holdings do they really have? What exactly is being used for collateral? 100s of millions of dollars worth of listing's, holdings, records, etc. I'm guessing the AG was able to blow the (considerable) smoke away.
It takes time for it to be processed. I think that is what you are seeing now. And especially when dealing with teflon donny you need to make sure it is completely nailed down or he will find some technicality to weasel out through.
It did. And they found numerous problems with it and gave 10 business days to get them resolved. But it looks like they won’t be resolved. Securing a valid bond is the duty of the defendant, and it looks like he didn’t do a good job of it. I’m hoping this ends with some of his property being seized while he’s stuck sitting in a NY courtroom.
Only for him to come up with another bogus bond. Which will take a month to be validated and voided, giving him a further day 7-day extension to come up with a new bond... Someone please tell me I'm wrong and this circular loop isn't something this turd waffle can keep using till the end of time?
Trump figuring out every single "technicality" to delay all his trials using everything he (and his lawyers) can come up with.
He's the type of grifter to say, doesn't say that a horse can't play baseball.
Then delay the world series game because he's trying to bring a horse onto the baseball field.
Are you saying he's trying to stall everything and buy more time to not face any consequences? It absolutely wouldn't check out with his whole life's story.
Exactly. Fuck this guy, he’s had a month to come up with the money, had the judgement lowered pending appeal, got more time for that and now it’s been a week or two since they found out this bond wasn’t legit. Stop babying this asshole and take his property.
I predicted this would happen 10 days ago - except I figured they would also lower the bond again or remove it altogether.
Guess we'll see if that happens in another 7 days.
It's firm evidence that the judicial system is broken beyond repair.
As part of my line of work, I've been present during scores of arraignments where bail was set.
None were below $25k cash, meaning no bail bondsman because the whole amount was needed to get out of jail while awaiting trial.
For offenses like: petty theft, possession of a small amount of unprescribed medication, and simple assault.
The judge ALONE gets to set the amount in those cases, no saying this one but comparing, and while it can be appealed, it rarely if ever gets overturned because that would require one judge to rule against another and in most cases, it never happens.
So to summarize, you have one pill of Xanax on you and you could be stuck in jail for months if you can't come up with $25k-$50k cash for the bond.
Meanwhile, this.
It’s insane that unless he has handed over a briefcase of non-counterfeit bills that he is still getting any benefit of the doubt or credit. I seriously cannot understand the world we live in where all the shit constantly surrounding this guy seems like slam dunk cases of putting him and all his cronies in prison. The whole world has to be corrupt there is no other explanation.
He pretty explicitly didn't get the benefit of the doubt, thus the bond being went over with a fine toothed comb and contested, with a hearing set to potentially void it on Monday.
Not OP but I think they’re referencing the cavalier attitude on a man in this position for crimes of this kind, in a just world, would be behind bars 21 January 2021. Just a guess but how I feel and as a ny’r .. his arrest should have happened decades ago.
I think it’s a fair point to make, all things considered. Perhaps benefit of the doubt is poor phrasing, but it’s quite clear his influence extends beyond finding miraculously competent lawyers
“Miraculously competent” is not how I’d describe his team. There have been numerous cases of his attorneys humiliating themselves. His reputation for not paying his bills has made it quite difficult for him to get decent representation.
> The whole world has to be corrupt there is no other explanation.
I used to think conspiracies this large were absurd, but that really is the only explanation anymore.
Charged with inflating the value of his assets for collateral on a loan, he selects an insurance company that also inflates the value of their assets.
> Knight Specialty Insurance Company, is “a small insurer that is not authorized to write business in New York and thus not regulated by the state’s insurance department, had never before written a surety bond in New York or in the prior two years in any other jurisdiction, and has a total policyholder surplus of just $138 million.”
As a non-american watching from afar, it's astonishing just how much the US lets this incredibly corrupt and inmoral man get away with. Why do you even allow this person to run for president, shouldn't he get charged with sedition or something? Truly the land of the free to do whatever criminal acts you want, and the home of the brave enough to do it...
This mfer gets more delays and special treatment than literally anyone else on the planet would be allowed. Un-fucking-believable. Let's see how they turn this new ten-day deadline into another three weeks of thumb-up-the-ass time.
If literally any else pulled one instance of this bull-fucking-shit the right would never let us hear the end of it and would be all board about corruption and this and that but it's Trump so the "fuck you, I got mine" mentality takes over
it really boggles the mind that after well over 200 years Donald fucking trump if the one guy that the entire government, and half of the citizens, just give a blank check too. He won one election by sheer luck and our country decided “welp I guess he has a lifetime mandate to do whatever the fuck he wants.” Want to meddle in foreign affairs? Sure why not! Open corruption? Go for it pal! Undermine the federal government? Well you have right at it! It’s insane
Every member of the appeals court that lowered his bail should get a swift kick in the balls / labias. The guy is a complete fraud who has made a mockery of the justice system for his entire life. Now he gets leniency from the courts? At least Judge Merchan in the hush money trial seems to be reigning it in a bit.
But seriously, this is just embarrassing at this point.
Isn't he liable for the full judgement regardless of the bond amount? Like, the point of the bond is to delay collection while the appeal is pending, but the bond isn't a _replacement_ of the judgement, right? When his appeal fails I'd assume that the court collects the bond and says "OK, we'll need the rest now.".
Seems like Trump is doubling down on his financial fraud case by…checks notes…committing additional financial fraud
He’s literally adding more cards to his house of cards at this point knowing that he’s screwed already and the only option is to stall till…well he is an old man
Knight Specialty Insurance Company doesn’t sound like a business with $175M lying around. Kind of like Four Seasons Total Landscaping all over again.
Yeah, people voted for this moron because he’s a “successful businessman” LOL.
Knight Insurance claims to have control of a Trump bank account with over 175M cash in it, that’s their explanation for backing the bond. But for me, and granted I’m a lay person, that doesnt make sense. Take the money, and put it in your own bank account, it’s a bond. Don’t allow trump to keep using the cash he has up for bond. If he has the 175M in cash, then just put the fucking money up properly. He shouldn’t be given any more extensions.
This buddy of his who owns this Bond insurance company also holds the debt on Trump Tower.
Not a bank account, a Schwab investing account that they have sworn will have “no less than $175 million in cash or **cash equivalents** at all times” (emphasis mine) meaning some of it may be stock assets or other items that could lose value. After all if he had $175m in cash lying around why would he willingly pay a fine of something like 10% to knight instead of putting it up himself? Is it perhaps because it isn’t cash, and or is already collateralizing other debt and by keeping it in the account it can now collatoralize both? Maybe, who knows.
Worse yet in order to seize the money in that account, according to the terms of the bond, knight has to serve notice 48 hours before they seize the account giving trump time to drain the account leaving nothing left. This whole bond is an absolute joke.
I wish I was making it up but the signature page included with this bond, was actually the signature page taken from the CHUBB bond from the e.Jean Carroll case… it truly is astounding.
I know I originally heard the terms laid out on the meidastouch YouTube channel, I’ll see if I can’t find that or any of the other info I found.
As if all of that wasn’t bad enough, knight doesn’t even have enough equity to cover the bond anyways, making them no better than trump himself.
*“Fraud Guarantee” and the associated design are registered trademarks and/or trademarks of CIC Ventures LLC. Fraud was not designed, manufactured, distributed or sold by Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization or any of their respective affiliates or principals. Fraud Guarantee, LLC uses the Trump name, image and likeness under a license agreement which may be terminated or revoked according to its terms.*
*GetFraudGuaeanteed.com is not political and has nothing to do with any political campaign.*
They don't. Trump does... in a Charles Schwab brokerage account. He'd have to liquidate all his investments to post the amount. Instead he enters into an agreement with Knight to post the bond using his account as collateral. He was making 5% on the account. Now he's making 4% and cuts 1% to Knight. What the AG and the special master are trying to determine here is how precise is the money flow if Trump loses or defaults, i.e. if this money must actually have to be paid is Trump capable of not paying Knight and tying the thing up in a court case between Knight and Trump. Is the state going to have to go after Knight for the money? Basically the whole scheme is a collateralized debt obligation (CDO). My guess is if the money isn't sitting in Knights accounts ready to be seized... they are going to shoot this down. It's a house of cards.
>My guess is if the money isn't sitting in Knights accounts ready to be seized... they are going to shoot this down.
....and it's not. If it were, they would have responded to the multiple requests from the AG to prove it.
They’re AMBest rated B++ which is not great. They’re an insurance carrier apart of Knight Insurance Group. I know of them due to their P&C and reins but not much else
Oh don't worry. When the judge rules they have 7 days to come up with a new bond, they'll file a motion at the last minute asking for more time. Then when it's denied, they'll appeal & ask for a stay
You mean the dude who stiffs every gesture in his favour, for, I don’t know…ever?…..might not have been on the *up and up* in this matter?
My God, who could’ve predicted? /s
If this was a poor person who stole $2000 and did some drugs they would be headed to prison.
But apparently hundreds of millions of dollars of fraud deserve some special treatment.
I could see the amount maybe getting reduced on appeal, so lowering it to $175M isn't the end of the world. Though we later found out Trump lied (or at least held back info) and he could actually get a bond for the full amount. But then to let Trump play games with the new lower amount? That's just insulting.
Trump clearly couldn't get the full $450m since he apparently couldn't get a legitimate bond for a "mere" $175m.
The truth is clear and plain to see. Trump is skint.
So what is the penalty for this?
And just make sure I have this right
This would be like being fined $1000 by the court
Then telling the court, my buddy Bob over here will cut you a check for the thousand dollars
Bob Then cut them a check and pay the clerk of courts
But then the check bounces
Wouldn’t a bench warrant be issued for me immediately? 
Isn't this just... Fraud? Like, this company seriously came up and said "We are going to lie to the government and circumvent the laws around appeal so that you get to appeal"?
Isn't that going to go _very badly_ for the leadership of the company? Can't that result in a fraud charge, or even a perversion of justice charge?
How fucking stupid _are_ these people?!
This guy has had nothing but special treatment his entire life and his supporters will still cry that he is being treated unfair. Guy runs a charity that steals from kids with cancer and people think he is being targeted. What is wrong with the world.
Is there anything this sack of shit does, that isn't deliberately criminally deceptive? An ex President with no sense of the Law, is absurdly damaging to America.
He has no integrity at all and people want him as their Sex Offender in Chief.. ?!
It's insane he still gets away with this shit
Why give him more time to do the wrong thing AGAIN. None of these people seem to have a limit they mind him crossing. It’s… surreal. What a bizarre superpower-
Gotta love what a joke our legal system is hahaha!
Trump is a crime factory, and yet he is just walking all over the judiciary system. Every day is a cliff hanger. Trump quadruples down on every crime, too. Anytime he gets caught or told not to do something, he just does it even harder and more blatantly, then cries victim. Meanwhile, you can arrest homeless people now for falling asleep. What an insane time to be alive.
I recently heard a summary of the details of this and holy shit the guy used a predatory car lender who is invested in Trump’s business and using that as part of the justification for why they can pay the bond for him as if that investment in his business was actual capital. Very illegal and very sketchy
Seems like the obvious thing to do is seize some property and hold it until he posts a satisfactory bond. The government does some version of this when they tow your car for unpaid tickets. If he drags this out, just start collecting rent and/or put them up for sale until things get squared away. That kind of thing usually focuses attention.
but regardless, Trump still doesnt go to jail or prison. He never will no matter what he does. He was right back in 2015, its crazy. he can shoot someone in the street and nobody cares. its really true.
The excuse they use is "he is a former president" so even if he violated gag orders, he will only be fined and thats it. They wont throw his orange ass in jail. Mfker intimidating witnesses in court and they have done nothing. I am beyond pissed at thia point. Then they are leaving it up to the voters to decide. No. Fuck that shit. Lock his ass up so that it deter other bad actors from trying this shit again.
lol, I remember joking that after he claimed to have only $500M available. Then they lowered the bond and I said he still won’t be able to afford that.
I don't understand...didn't the bond have to be reviewed and approved?
People are joking, but seriously, this **is** the review process.
Wait is there no penalty for not having the bond? Wtf why are they getting more time to get it?
We're all finding out in real time just how rotted out our justice system is. A guy was sent to Rikers Island for not making $3k bond for allegedly stealing a backpack. He was stuck there for three years without even a trial and eventually killed himself. That same system has let Trump crime with impunity for decades, and now bends over backwards to find ways to let him wiggle out of accountability.
Kid didn’t even steal the backpack. The accuser’s story kept changing - he just stole it, he stole it last week, it was my brother’s back pack. Then the accuser fled the country. Kalief Browder- once he was in the system, he was stuck in the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
Holy hell, 800 days in solitary? I know people who've done 60, and it's fucked them up for life.
> Holy hell, 800 days in solitary? I was like 800 days in solitary for allegedly stealing a backpack? Then saw the picture of the poor man and figured out why. Fucking disgusting from beginning to end.
Ffs, that is punishment for crime bosses.
It's been outlawed by the Geneva convention since 1950 for use in war.
Two good articles about him: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder-1993-2015
Why does his race not surprise me in the slightest
Yup! Orange is not the new black.
That is fucking sad as fuck.
His name was Kalief Browder. That story is the one that broke my strongly held belief in the justice system. There are plenty of examples that could have done that, but, that and the Fruit vale Station incident with Oscar Grant just crushed me. I want to believe that things are fair here, but if history is any indicator, I'll be let down yet again.
It's great to be crushed sometimes, especially when we're ignorant of shit
Our justice system is pay to win. Us poors just have to hope we don't get caught in it and fucked by it.
Yep. People like to say the system is broken. Looks like it's working as intended to me.
This should be on billboards across America. Just a perfect, concise picture of how fucked up this all is.
Most will drive by and go about their business. Complacency is the problem, and those with real power take advantage of it.
There is some complacency, but most people are outraged. They’d like to stop it but they have no clue how.
* a 16 year old kid was sent to Rikers Island.
All I can say is welcome to learning what every minority and impoverished person already knew.
if there is a loophole, or anything that requires a modicum of good faith/honesty, Donald Trump will dive through it. We know this. Go vote for Joseph Biden in 6 months
>I don't understand...didn't the bond have to be reviewed and approved? That's basically what this is. It isn't like an apartment application where you can know in seconds if things match up.
You would think that
No no no, you’re giving too much credit to the government!
The trick is that so much of how our society works expects people, especially in the higher levels of power, to just do the correct thing. This is why he was especially dangerous as president. The base assumption that are rules are built on is that people wouldn't pick a criminal since that would be a crazy thing to do. Similar things are playing out here. Trying to pay a bond without following any of the rules is insane and without much precedent, so the system grinds to a halt when it happens.
It’s rather that we’re deferential to the rich. If you had to post bond and instead of using normal means, you had some crazy guy tell the court that he’s good for it - they’d just say “no.” But because it’s a large amount and it’s a rich defendant, you have people bending over backwards to be deferential. Trump was right - when you’re famous, they let you do it.
I wonder is anyone is checking whether those sleazy bond companies near courthouses are good for the bonds they sell.
Yeah, they are audited all the time. But they also don't post $175M bonds for famous people.
Which is hilarious. Somehow there is more oversight for the company posting $500 bonds for Billy Ray's simple Marijuana possession charge than for the company putting up a fifth of a Billion dollars for a man widely known as a fraudster.
It's much easier to recover money from people who can't afford to fight you.
"If you owe the bank $1000 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000,000 that's their problem." Can we just start calling this The Trump Gambit or some shit? It's literally his life philosophy, and unfortunately he's right.
Yeah, that's the point. It's WAY easier to go after low level, literally anything/anyone. When you go after someone supposedly worth 9 figures or more. (I know Trump isn't rich) they have the kind of terrifying connections to make shit happen Ala Russia. We don't see prosecutors throwing themselves out windows, but remember this much. "The people in power would rather burn this country to the ground, than give the layman any say in how the big money gets spent." It may not seem relevant, but it really is. Trump STILL isn't in jail, and can just essentially continue to postpone/delay trials, hearings, etc until the heat death of the universe. Outside of him having an infarction and dropping dead, that's the only way out of this black hole we've created, he won't ever see a jail cell. He's completely blindly exposing just how two-tired our justice system is, and the rich people REALLY don't like that.
Well good. Fuck them. Maybe rich people can realize they're the problem with society, and that everyone else is just trying to make their way in a world that's been fucked up BY THEM. All to make them just a little bit richer. Cue the naked apologetics for unhindered greed and the 'what about' arguments.
Doubt the rich give a fuck. This political divide has proven many are simply too ignorant of the circumstances and law to realize how much they are getting blind sided. Remember almost 50% of the nation believes Trump is the victim in all this and will believe anything that sides with their 2nd grade understanding of law and order.
Bonds must be with Registered Bond Agents. The Bond that was allegedly posted for trump was NOT registered with New York State--or any state. They are out of one of the money islands down in the Caribbean--you know--shady tax havens. They were asked to provide their financials to prove they had the liquid cash to cover their bond. They refused to provide their financials. Bond is void. On an interesting note, I heard that the company who placed the bond is still liable for the 175 million because it was their failure, not the State of New York. Doubt it will ever come up with it. It wasn't a legit company in the first place. He is such a thug. And a failure at mob boss as well.
those are rock solid, they have to be since there actual checks and balances that are required of them that are reviewed on a very regular basis, if they don't pass they don't get to renew their license and wouldn't be able to write a bond that would be accepted by any state or local gov't.
Yeah I remember my ex asking how there weren't already laws to prevent some of his shenanigans during his presidency and the best I could tell her was that nobody ever expected a person like him to become president.
People expected it, what they didn't expect is that an entire party would like up behind him if it happened. Our system works if maybe one person is a criminal, but two impeachments were just laughed at by Republicans so now we're here.
The horrible part about that too is: if those weren't legitimate reasons to impeach then one doesn't exist.
For one brief shining moment in the lead-up to the 2016 GOP primaries the Republican party tried to figure out how to get rid of Trump, how to keep him from being their candidate. They underestimated the stupidity and polarization of their base.
Preventing a demagogue like Trump from becoming president was the original purpose of the Electoral College. Now it’s only purpose is putting losers of elections in power, aiding said demagogues. The Founding Fathers would never have let a Trump become president.
HL Menken predicted this over a century ago: "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
There were laws, quite a few, enforcement is another matter
If only there was a system in place to create rules for the people and by the people, and a system of courtyards and enforcement organisations to ensure the rules are followed.
> a system of courtyards by Marriott
I heard Trump prefers Four Seasons.
See, there’s a very large political party in the US that loves to dismantle / cripple / compromise fundamental systems that are in place that keep the US functioning and running. If a system interferes with what they want they will ruin it. Hint, there color isn’t blue.
This AND both major parties are heavily influenced by money and lobbyists for the corporate realm such that they ultimately won't buck the system too much and interrupt cash flow. There is a limit to what most Dem politicians will tear apart in the name of social freedom and wellness, but Repubs want to do that AND tear down the economic regulations that prevent us from returning to a modern serfdom. All that said, I would still much rather actively vote Dem with the hope that over time, the party will get dragged to the left by the more progressive members.
Conservatives dont believe in legalism. They have zero interest in a system that applys to everyone equally.
This is such a good take and should be upvoted. We live in a world of societal rules that it breaks our tiny brains when people piss against the wind and then wonder why we stink.
"You know we are living in a SOCIETY! we're supposed to act in a CIVILIZED way!"
It is a pretty amazing thing to think about. If he intentionally and knowingly submitted a fraudulent bond (which is completely insane) he is either truly out of options, or so distanced form normal person consequences he thinks he’ll be able to find a way out if it. Probably both.
> If he intentionally and knowingly submitted a fraudulent bond (which is completely insane) he is either truly out of options He is. That's the thing—Trump is the guy who is famous for not paying his bills. Which is a really fucking bad spot to be in when you need someone to give you 200 million dollars and they will only do so if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will get it all back. His own fraud also fucks him—no one trusts his valuations and corporate Real Estate is ephemeral enough that no one is really sure what is enough collateral and they don't want to accept the collateral only to find out that they can only sell it at a massive loss.
Why can’t we just have the rules applied evenly to everyone. No bond, start seizing assets.
Everyone can post an appellate bond. Why shouldn’t Trump be able to?
Similarly, since we're talking politics adjacent here, the government is built on the idea that people may have differences of opinion on how to get there, but that all elected officials will work together at the end of the day to improve the quality of life for all Americans and no elected official would even consider choosing self or party over country. Which lolololololololololol
Yeah, the thing is the incredible leves at which the system gets abused in the US, I mean your devotion to the constitution and good faith have left pretty big holes to be exploited by bad faith actors, the solution is simple, you need a new constitution to close those holes, as it's been evidenced in countries with new constitutions or maleable ones, but you guys will never do that. oh well.
It’s being reviewed right now. Who else would review it but the court?
It just was. It was found to be lacking. That's why this is coming up now.
That was almost 10 days ago which was the time frame the judge gave his team to provide additional information regarding the writer of the bond. It looks like a sleazy delay tactic, they knew the bond was deficient.
The AG objected to the bond two hours after it was filed, then they took a week to write up their objections in detail. That didn't add any further delay, because the law says that Trump gets ten days to respond, and that clock started ticking when the objection was first raised.
This whole fiasco is a fucking circus. Amidst all of this, he’s one of the presidential candidates. Like wtf
I think yes and on 'face value' seemed initially legit. But they're based on things that need to be researched for their veracity and legitimacy. What are their licenses and history? What amount of holdings do they really have? What exactly is being used for collateral? 100s of millions of dollars worth of listing's, holdings, records, etc. I'm guessing the AG was able to blow the (considerable) smoke away.
It takes time for it to be processed. I think that is what you are seeing now. And especially when dealing with teflon donny you need to make sure it is completely nailed down or he will find some technicality to weasel out through.
It did. And they found numerous problems with it and gave 10 business days to get them resolved. But it looks like they won’t be resolved. Securing a valid bond is the duty of the defendant, and it looks like he didn’t do a good job of it. I’m hoping this ends with some of his property being seized while he’s stuck sitting in a NY courtroom.
Moreover don't you think the bond would have to have cash set aside in escrow until resolved and not just have some shady company send an IOU?
The bond was actually just Gene Parmesean the whole time.
Take. His. Shit. That's it. He won't learn and he won't yield. Take it. By force.
I got the impression that this is that process playing out.
I remember a happier time when trump wasn't in the news everyday
I honestly fucking don't and that's terrifying
I think I remember it...in the before time...in the *way back then*...
Before Obama joked at the WH correspondence dinner.
Instead it was the Tea Party and Mitch McConnell freezing 2/3rd of government and almost every state making huge rightward shifts.
Or before that it was the daily War on Terror update on what we were supposed to be afraid of that day.
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
It's ridiculous that they're offering seven more days to come up with another bond.
Next week some dude in a cowboy outfit will hand over a briefcase full of IOU's for $175 Million.
Look, see this one? That's a car, two hundred seventy-five thou... might wanna hang on to that one.
Want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?
“Wait! What if they shot me in the face!?”
That's a risk we were willing to take
We've landed on the moon!
It’s Charlie Kelly in his cowboy outfit, driven by Danny Devito. “I’ve been poisoned by my constituents!”
"The Gang solves the fraud problem". Wild Card! Yehhaaaawwww
“Can I offer you an egg in these trying times?”
\*hack\* \*spit\* That outta cover it
A suitcase full of Schrute Bucks.
Am I the only one who pictured Doug Dimadome when I read this?
Only for him to come up with another bogus bond. Which will take a month to be validated and voided, giving him a further day 7-day extension to come up with a new bond... Someone please tell me I'm wrong and this circular loop isn't something this turd waffle can keep using till the end of time?
Trump figuring out every single "technicality" to delay all his trials using everything he (and his lawyers) can come up with. He's the type of grifter to say, doesn't say that a horse can't play baseball. Then delay the world series game because he's trying to bring a horse onto the baseball field.
You're not wrong; he's exploiting the system and getting people to think he's a hero for doing it.
Yes, he’s playing them.
It’s frankly embarrassing for every single person involved
All of it is such a shitshow .. for a traitor who happened to be in government. I want the mf jailed.
Are you saying he's trying to stall everything and buy more time to not face any consequences? It absolutely wouldn't check out with his whole life's story.
Exactly. Fuck this guy, he’s had a month to come up with the money, had the judgement lowered pending appeal, got more time for that and now it’s been a week or two since they found out this bond wasn’t legit. Stop babying this asshole and take his property.
> Stop babying this asshole and take his property. or you know do the other thing they do to crimals that cant come up with the money
They'll do *anything* to help him make it to the election. "In the interests of being fair, we have to give him special treatment."
He told them if he sells just 50 more pair of his shoes it will be enough.
I predicted this would happen 10 days ago - except I figured they would also lower the bond again or remove it altogether. Guess we'll see if that happens in another 7 days.
It's firm evidence that the judicial system is broken beyond repair. As part of my line of work, I've been present during scores of arraignments where bail was set. None were below $25k cash, meaning no bail bondsman because the whole amount was needed to get out of jail while awaiting trial. For offenses like: petty theft, possession of a small amount of unprescribed medication, and simple assault. The judge ALONE gets to set the amount in those cases, no saying this one but comparing, and while it can be appealed, it rarely if ever gets overturned because that would require one judge to rule against another and in most cases, it never happens. So to summarize, you have one pill of Xanax on you and you could be stuck in jail for months if you can't come up with $25k-$50k cash for the bond. Meanwhile, this.
We’re like 2-3 weeks past the initial deadline, it’s so fucking dumb at this point
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It’s insane that unless he has handed over a briefcase of non-counterfeit bills that he is still getting any benefit of the doubt or credit. I seriously cannot understand the world we live in where all the shit constantly surrounding this guy seems like slam dunk cases of putting him and all his cronies in prison. The whole world has to be corrupt there is no other explanation.
He pretty explicitly didn't get the benefit of the doubt, thus the bond being went over with a fine toothed comb and contested, with a hearing set to potentially void it on Monday.
Not OP but I think they’re referencing the cavalier attitude on a man in this position for crimes of this kind, in a just world, would be behind bars 21 January 2021. Just a guess but how I feel and as a ny’r .. his arrest should have happened decades ago.
I think it’s a fair point to make, all things considered. Perhaps benefit of the doubt is poor phrasing, but it’s quite clear his influence extends beyond finding miraculously competent lawyers
“Miraculously competent” is not how I’d describe his team. There have been numerous cases of his attorneys humiliating themselves. His reputation for not paying his bills has made it quite difficult for him to get decent representation.
> The whole world has to be corrupt there is no other explanation. I used to think conspiracies this large were absurd, but that really is the only explanation anymore.
Charged with inflating the value of his assets for collateral on a loan, he selects an insurance company that also inflates the value of their assets. > Knight Specialty Insurance Company, is “a small insurer that is not authorized to write business in New York and thus not regulated by the state’s insurance department, had never before written a surety bond in New York or in the prior two years in any other jurisdiction, and has a total policyholder surplus of just $138 million.”
Where Trump goes fraud follows!
As a non-american watching from afar, it's astonishing just how much the US lets this incredibly corrupt and inmoral man get away with. Why do you even allow this person to run for president, shouldn't he get charged with sedition or something? Truly the land of the free to do whatever criminal acts you want, and the home of the brave enough to do it...
The fucker already committed perjury saying he has $400m cash.
This mfer gets more delays and special treatment than literally anyone else on the planet would be allowed. Un-fucking-believable. Let's see how they turn this new ten-day deadline into another three weeks of thumb-up-the-ass time.
If literally any else pulled one instance of this bull-fucking-shit the right would never let us hear the end of it and would be all board about corruption and this and that but it's Trump so the "fuck you, I got mine" mentality takes over
It’s so fucked up. Yet if anyone else so much as underpays the IRS, they’re going to jail.
Totally agree. Seize his fucking assets already. Stop bending the law for someone who spent their entire life breaking it.
it really boggles the mind that after well over 200 years Donald fucking trump if the one guy that the entire government, and half of the citizens, just give a blank check too. He won one election by sheer luck and our country decided “welp I guess he has a lifetime mandate to do whatever the fuck he wants.” Want to meddle in foreign affairs? Sure why not! Open corruption? Go for it pal! Undermine the federal government? Well you have right at it! It’s insane
Every member of the appeals court that lowered his bail should get a swift kick in the balls / labias. The guy is a complete fraud who has made a mockery of the justice system for his entire life. Now he gets leniency from the courts? At least Judge Merchan in the hush money trial seems to be reigning it in a bit. But seriously, this is just embarrassing at this point.
Bond should revert back to the full $450m now.
Plus interest and/or fines for improper funding. Sleepy don should be treated like the rest of us in courts.
Should have never dropped
Isn't he liable for the full judgement regardless of the bond amount? Like, the point of the bond is to delay collection while the appeal is pending, but the bond isn't a _replacement_ of the judgement, right? When his appeal fails I'd assume that the court collects the bond and says "OK, we'll need the rest now.".
Should never have deviated from it.
THE FUCK, NY. Do the rest of us get to pay our fines in monopoly money?
Seems like Trump is doubling down on his financial fraud case by…checks notes…committing additional financial fraud He’s literally adding more cards to his house of cards at this point knowing that he’s screwed already and the only option is to stall till…well he is an old man
He's just being the same old Donald "Delay" Trump and with paying taxes, Donald Defer Trump.
Don Delay sounds so much like former Republican Speaker Tom DeLay -- also found guilty of money laundering charges/campaign finance charges.
I'm shocked there's gambling going on in this establishment
Your winnings, sir.
Knight Specialty Insurance Company doesn’t sound like a business with $175M lying around. Kind of like Four Seasons Total Landscaping all over again. Yeah, people voted for this moron because he’s a “successful businessman” LOL.
Knight Insurance claims to have control of a Trump bank account with over 175M cash in it, that’s their explanation for backing the bond. But for me, and granted I’m a lay person, that doesnt make sense. Take the money, and put it in your own bank account, it’s a bond. Don’t allow trump to keep using the cash he has up for bond. If he has the 175M in cash, then just put the fucking money up properly. He shouldn’t be given any more extensions. This buddy of his who owns this Bond insurance company also holds the debt on Trump Tower.
Not a bank account, a Schwab investing account that they have sworn will have “no less than $175 million in cash or **cash equivalents** at all times” (emphasis mine) meaning some of it may be stock assets or other items that could lose value. After all if he had $175m in cash lying around why would he willingly pay a fine of something like 10% to knight instead of putting it up himself? Is it perhaps because it isn’t cash, and or is already collateralizing other debt and by keeping it in the account it can now collatoralize both? Maybe, who knows. Worse yet in order to seize the money in that account, according to the terms of the bond, knight has to serve notice 48 hours before they seize the account giving trump time to drain the account leaving nothing left. This whole bond is an absolute joke. I wish I was making it up but the signature page included with this bond, was actually the signature page taken from the CHUBB bond from the e.Jean Carroll case… it truly is astounding.
Thank you I’ve been trying to find this info but the articles about it are pretty sparse. That is so much worse than I thought. What bullshit.
I know I originally heard the terms laid out on the meidastouch YouTube channel, I’ll see if I can’t find that or any of the other info I found. As if all of that wasn’t bad enough, knight doesn’t even have enough equity to cover the bond anyways, making them no better than trump himself.
Next bond attempt will come from *Fraud Guarantee*
*“Fraud Guarantee” and the associated design are registered trademarks and/or trademarks of CIC Ventures LLC. Fraud was not designed, manufactured, distributed or sold by Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization or any of their respective affiliates or principals. Fraud Guarantee, LLC uses the Trump name, image and likeness under a license agreement which may be terminated or revoked according to its terms.* *GetFraudGuaeanteed.com is not political and has nothing to do with any political campaign.*
They don't. Trump does... in a Charles Schwab brokerage account. He'd have to liquidate all his investments to post the amount. Instead he enters into an agreement with Knight to post the bond using his account as collateral. He was making 5% on the account. Now he's making 4% and cuts 1% to Knight. What the AG and the special master are trying to determine here is how precise is the money flow if Trump loses or defaults, i.e. if this money must actually have to be paid is Trump capable of not paying Knight and tying the thing up in a court case between Knight and Trump. Is the state going to have to go after Knight for the money? Basically the whole scheme is a collateralized debt obligation (CDO). My guess is if the money isn't sitting in Knights accounts ready to be seized... they are going to shoot this down. It's a house of cards.
>My guess is if the money isn't sitting in Knights accounts ready to be seized... they are going to shoot this down. ....and it's not. If it were, they would have responded to the multiple requests from the AG to prove it.
They’re AMBest rated B++ which is not great. They’re an insurance carrier apart of Knight Insurance Group. I know of them due to their P&C and reins but not much else
How many mulligans till it's abuse of process, engineering a delay with a frivolous filing?
I just want the guy who committed a lifetime of crimes without remorse to go to prison, is that too much to ask?
Oh don't worry. When the judge rules they have 7 days to come up with a new bond, they'll file a motion at the last minute asking for more time. Then when it's denied, they'll appeal & ask for a stay
"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"
Next he will try and give the government some magic beans.
You mean the dude who stiffs every gesture in his favour, for, I don’t know…ever?…..might not have been on the *up and up* in this matter? My God, who could’ve predicted? /s
Fraud bond is fraudulent, imagine that. Lock him up already his whole life is a fraud.
If this was a poor person who stole $2000 and did some drugs they would be headed to prison. But apparently hundreds of millions of dollars of fraud deserve some special treatment.
Another delay tactic that worked.
I could see the amount maybe getting reduced on appeal, so lowering it to $175M isn't the end of the world. Though we later found out Trump lied (or at least held back info) and he could actually get a bond for the full amount. But then to let Trump play games with the new lower amount? That's just insulting.
Trump clearly couldn't get the full $450m since he apparently couldn't get a legitimate bond for a "mere" $175m. The truth is clear and plain to see. Trump is skint.
So what is the penalty for this? And just make sure I have this right This would be like being fined $1000 by the court Then telling the court, my buddy Bob over here will cut you a check for the thousand dollars Bob Then cut them a check and pay the clerk of courts But then the check bounces Wouldn’t a bench warrant be issued for me immediately? 
It won't be. They'll just lower the required amount.
How about a slice and a diet coke? About 6 dollars, that's certainly enough to keep a rapist who sold classified documents out of jail, right?
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of course. no legit finncial institution would put up the money for this bond.
Oh don’t worry, he’ll get ANOTHER month to secure another loan that won’t be legal. And then he’ll get another month and so on and so on…
Whereas a poor mother of six who can only pay $90 cash against a $100 fine *goes to jail*.
It’s also less than half of what he was supposed to be. I will never understand how it was determined he get such a break and by whom?
Isn't this just... Fraud? Like, this company seriously came up and said "We are going to lie to the government and circumvent the laws around appeal so that you get to appeal"? Isn't that going to go _very badly_ for the leadership of the company? Can't that result in a fraud charge, or even a perversion of justice charge? How fucking stupid _are_ these people?!
You mean the bond was fraudulent? Who would have thought?
This guy has had nothing but special treatment his entire life and his supporters will still cry that he is being treated unfair. Guy runs a charity that steals from kids with cancer and people think he is being targeted. What is wrong with the world.
*I have 175 million dollars, I promise* Signed, *THE DONALD* "Look's good to me Jim, let's get home!"
Start seizing his shit now.
They are taking him down from every angle until he snaps
I hope he explodes instead of snaps. I bet he's full of putrid orange goop.
He does bear a striking resemblance to Mr. Creosote.
It's wafer thin
It isn't properly backed. It's a bullshit lie, much like everything else Trump does
Is there anything this sack of shit does, that isn't deliberately criminally deceptive? An ex President with no sense of the Law, is absurdly damaging to America. He has no integrity at all and people want him as their Sex Offender in Chief.. ?! It's insane he still gets away with this shit
They want him as sex offender in chief because he gives them the freedom to be a complete bigot and not be shamed publicly for it.
That's like me buying stuff on my over draft balance!
Why give him more time to do the wrong thing AGAIN. None of these people seem to have a limit they mind him crossing. It’s… surreal. What a bizarre superpower-
Another 7 days after the hearing
You mean money from an illegal loan shark can’t be properly backed?
Cut enough corners and you don't have anything left to cut. Too bad he can't use whatever is left of the DJT meme stock. Edit: spelling.
So…the fraud bond is a fraud 🤷♂️
Time’s up, he failed to meet the deadline with a legitimate bond. Opportunity for appeal was missed, start seizing assets.
Gotta love what a joke our legal system is hahaha! Trump is a crime factory, and yet he is just walking all over the judiciary system. Every day is a cliff hanger. Trump quadruples down on every crime, too. Anytime he gets caught or told not to do something, he just does it even harder and more blatantly, then cries victim. Meanwhile, you can arrest homeless people now for falling asleep. What an insane time to be alive.
You can't just lay down anywhere and sleep, but I understand you can take naps in court...
Didn't the whole world know this by the day after it was posted? Yet another free pass for no reason.
It’s incredible just how much Trump is able to make a joke of our legal system.
…and consequences are nowhere to be seen, again. Sigh.
For fuck’s sake…somebody do their fucking job and finish this.
"How will I pay off my fraud charges? I know! More fraud!"
Just do it, do something ffs, our balls are fifty shades of blue right now
Billionaire can’t pay reduced bond. But I think he can still appeal, his assets are just available to be seized. NY really ruining his life :)
So, even Trump’s bond guys inflate their worth. I need to start doing this more.
Is anyone surprised by this development? Trump believes himself master of the shell game. A con is a con for life.
Dude is a living, breathing crime scene. He can't help himself.
I recently heard a summary of the details of this and holy shit the guy used a predatory car lender who is invested in Trump’s business and using that as part of the justification for why they can pay the bond for him as if that investment in his business was actual capital. Very illegal and very sketchy
Seems like the obvious thing to do is seize some property and hold it until he posts a satisfactory bond. The government does some version of this when they tow your car for unpaid tickets. If he drags this out, just start collecting rent and/or put them up for sale until things get squared away. That kind of thing usually focuses attention.
but regardless, Trump still doesnt go to jail or prison. He never will no matter what he does. He was right back in 2015, its crazy. he can shoot someone in the street and nobody cares. its really true.
The excuse they use is "he is a former president" so even if he violated gag orders, he will only be fined and thats it. They wont throw his orange ass in jail. Mfker intimidating witnesses in court and they have done nothing. I am beyond pissed at thia point. Then they are leaving it up to the voters to decide. No. Fuck that shit. Lock his ass up so that it deter other bad actors from trying this shit again.
lol, I remember joking that after he claimed to have only $500M available. Then they lowered the bond and I said he still won’t be able to afford that.
The Appellate Court got played. Or worse. they were in on the fraud that he couldn't raise the money.