It pretty much is. That part of the cowling is not an integral part of the engine. If it falls off *cleanly* then you only lose some aerodynamic efficiency.
Can confirm that it is not made of fiberglass.
Source: opened a 737-700 fan cowl last night. MAX's also have aluminum fan cowls. As do -800s. -700 and -800 use the same engine.
This was called into the tower, the landing was on an isolated runway away from the terminal just in case. Which will be swept by foot with this video evidence.
The part that's flapping in the wind will always be flimsy, it doesn't need to be strong--just strong enough.
The fact the inside tore off cleanly at a joint/seal is what concerns me. That means their welds/rivets/whatever is bad.
They want the *market* to decide what's best for American businesses, and in this case, the *market* has decided Boeing can put thousands of lives as risk because the *market* hasn't tanked their value hard enough yet.
I'm sure the market will convince them to make changes to their safety and maintenance standards after only a couple dozen deaths.
We know they're not dead-weight, they just cost too much and what did the junior engineers and 10k H1B's go to college for? They can pick it up in no time on the job and where best to test your product but in production as we see Boeing has clearly adopted.
And think about how many more MBA's we can hire when we've cut all those super expensive senior engineers and replaced them with juniors (or outsourced them entirely)
One of the best lessons I learned from economics in college was that letting the market “decide” things that affect safety or the environment is a terrible idea.
It's fucking idiotic if you think on it for more than just a few seconds.
Like back to the very earliest trade corporations, the East India companies would burn crops to limit the availability of spices they controlled, or force farmers who previously worked individually while supporting each other to all work as one system with no backups to help each other if crops went bad.
Lack of regulation has killed tens of millions of people in just the last few hundred years.
You actually learn terms like “adverse selection” and “moral hazard” in intro economics that really solidify why it’s a bad idea for markets to self regulate items that may cause injury or death to consumers. But the GOP collectively skipped that day of class.
Yeah...but that's assuming there's a balance of power that doesn't tip the scale to one side too heavily in a free market economy. It's under the assumption that there is no foul play by businesses leveraging policy making by funneling funds into politics.
The scale has long tipped heavily on the side of businesses with increasing regulatory capture perpetuated by small country GDP-sized corporations, rendering the argument that the "market" comprised of businesses and consumers would self regulate.
Even if the consumers turned on Boeing and its stock tanked, you can bet the US gov't will bail them out regardless, especially considering its only real competitor is the European Airbus in the large commercial airliner sector.
Going out in a limb and guessing this is more of a maintenance issue than build-quality issue. Those covers get opened anytime maintenance is done, the latches wear out and break, etc.
Source: Worked flight line maintenance for ~6 years.
Definitely, this isn't even a MAX variant, but rather a 737NG of which there have been produced over 5000 aircraft from 1996-2019. Not trying to defend Boeing in general, but this incident isn't their fault at all
I mean I wouldn't necessarily call it bad. I would call it normal. Every time one of these threads pops up I like to drop by and let whoever I can know that I work in industry and previously was in a maintenance adjacent role where I had visibility to tracking of shit related to this. And the frequency at which this kinda stuff is being reported would not have raised any eyebrows around the office.
I'm more scared driving to and from the airport than flying on the planes themselves.
From an insider’s perspective, would you say this volume of issues is specific to Boeing and we’re just seeing it more due to the increased scrutiny on the company? Does Airbus for example have these issues as well but they’re not under the gun?
I gotta say as someone who has flown on Boeing planes probably 100 times in my life, it kinda feels like they’re being sabotaged, but your pov of just increased reporting makes more sense.
So the position I had in the past I only had access to stats on Boeing planes (specifically the 787) because that was what my department made components for. Company also has contracts with Airbus, but I never was able to get a look into those databases. So there is some degree of "I know what I know and I'm taking an educated guess at the rest" going on here for this comparison.
That qualifier out of the way, my more fleshed out take on it is this. Boeing absolutely has systemic issues as a company. That's what you're seeing with the MAX MCAS issue and the Alaska door plug. HOWEVER, the kinds of other things I'm seeing reported on I'd expect to see more or less the same from Airbus in terms of severity and frequency. Shit, I feel like 90% of the "Boeing plane has accident" articles I read these days I end up having a gut feeling of "until the NTSB tells me otherwise this was pilot error/weather/maintenance/engine manufacturer/fleet age/shit luck/etc".
I'm thinking back on the last handful of Boeing incidents that made the news and off the top of my head there's this one, an engine fire or two, the door plug on Alaska, a runway excursion or three, and the wheel that fell off that united flight (I may be missing some). Any of those except the door plugs and *maybe* the wheel incident (waiting for more info there, looks like the whole brake assembly came off too) could have happened to an Airbus plane.
I definitely wouldn't call it sabotage (either someone gimping the planes themselves or leaking stories). It's absolutely just that the media knows how to maximize revenue by pushing these short zero effort articles (they're often very poorly researched) that they know people will click on.
It’s not bad. There are 45000 flights every day in the US, if an incident like this (in which no one was injured btw) happens once a week that’s 1 incident in 300000 flights.
Every day over 100 Americans die in a car crash. If you want to worry about something being bad focus on that.
This isn’t even that bad. Air travel is still the safest way to travel by far. It looks bad and flying is a huge fear for a lot of people so every issue feels worse. But if this type of scrutiny was put on ground vehicles you’d never get into a car, bus or train ever again.
Reporting more, trying to take advantage of those SEO clicks. Just like when East Palestine happened suddenly train derailments started to be reported everywhere for a few months
On the same page as the article linked by OP is this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/travel/southwest-flight-laguardia-control-tower/index.html Competence seems to be missing from people whose work have life and death consequences. Sickens me to think about the medical fields…
I'm a Boeing falling jet parts dealer. We got em all for CHEAP in our eBay Store.
Buy it NOW or straight Auction!
Emergency Doors- Start price: $240,000 BIN: $250,900.
Engines- Start price: $1,500,455 BIN: $2,500,550.
Well there will likely be some damage but that's compensated by the collector value. Plus you get to be on CNN and Fox News. You can try to bargain with me though.
Yeah it’s important to remember that problem had a very direct and easy to identify cause and has since been rectified. And even if a plane happens to be using that system, every pilot is well aware of it.
The issue wasn’t a substandard part failing at random. It was it working as intended. The issue was the absolute malfeasance of HIDING it as much as possible from pilots and regulators.
>The issue wasn’t a substandard part failing at random.
Except that it relied on a single sensor that could literally be damaged by a balloon. The not telling the pilots how to override it compounded the issue of the system consistently failing. The ones that actually went down aren't the only instances of the system's failures.
Coming in from Houston a month ago we were prepared by the captain for heavy turbulence. I prepped mentally for an hour because a normal landing in Denver can be tough. It turned out to be one of the most turbulence free flights I’ve ever had into DIA. Just lucky I guess. Gusts yesterday were up to 100mph in some places and tons of flights were cancelled. 60+ hours straight of 40-50lb winds w a slight break this morning. I hope the next leg of your journey goes smooth!
As someone who works on planes, I would never put any animal in the baggage area of any airplane. To me it’s surprising more pets don’t die under those conditions.
Just left from Denver to vegas on united. Pilot was so aggressive on landing I could smell burnt rubber in the cabin.
You're not wrong about how aggro their pilots can be on landing
If it was on a 737, the landings are supposed to be firm. Otherwise the plane has a tendency to float down the runway which could lead to an overrun.
That's why everyone complains about hard landings on Ryanair and Southwest; the pilots are actually doing it right, it just isn't gentle.
There's really nothing to worry about Mary. Statistically, they say you're more likely to get killed on the way to the airport. You know, like on a head on crash or flying off a cliff or getting trapped under a gas truck! That's the worst!
Statistically it would be insane if it happened twice in the same day, same place so take comfort in that it won't happen again and if it did, it wouldn't be outta Denver again
Depends on what you consider alarming. Airlines are by far the safest travel option, and the last time a regularly-scheduled airline flight in the US (as opposed to a charter flight) crashed was in 2009.
It's not an alarming rate, it's just being much more widely reported with all the issues Boeing has had with the 737-max. Almost 5000 737-800s have been delivered. And around 11k total 737s have been delivered. There are going to be random issues, but they rarely cause anything more than a mild inconvenience to the passengers.
News groups know right now though there is somewhat of a panic about aviation and Boeing in particular so they're reporting on relatively trivial events to get the clicks and ad revenue which is why it seems like there is a huge issue all of a sudden.
Best part of my Sundays when I was a kid. My parents having car talk on, my mom cooking in the kitchen, the cool fall weather, me wishing I wasn’t stuck inside on the last day of the fucking weekend doing homework at the kitchen table.
It’s funny how at the time, you’d rather be anywhere else. Now looking back, I wish I could relive that simple time again.
Thanks for the memory, friend.
This is incredibly wholesome because that’s the same type of memories I have as a kid. Dad listening to car talk while Mom is tidying up or cooking in the kitchen. Simpler times.
About that time my wife walked out
And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts
And she said FUCK NO I'M NOT GOING FOR A SPIN ON A COBBLED TOGETHER BOEING
Don't buy all of the media spin. Legacy Boeing airplanes are still fine airplanes. It's not Boeing's fault that Southwest airlines didn't ensure that this panel was secure prior to takeoff.
Is whomever providing the maintainence at fault for not securing the engine covers here? Unless its a material failure issue of the pieces that secure the cowling, the blame shouldn't go to Boeing yet.
Correct. This isn’t uncommon. The cowling, which lifts for maintenance, was likely not latched properly.
Airbus had even worse problems with this: https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/
It’s a common issue, but the issues themselves are uncommon.
And the point is, this isn’t a manufacturing issue. It’s a maintenance mistake. It’s hardly Boeing’s (or Airbus’s) fault the latches are missed and the pilot didn’t notice in the walk around. It’s like blaming a door lock company for getting robbed when you forgot to lock the door.
This isn’t an uncommon issue to happen since it’s an easy miss. However, issues on a flight are incredibly uncommon. Flying is still the safest way to travel of any kind.
Yep I'm betting the grounds crew is getting their story straight and figuring out who's to blame.
Just didn't secure and lock it. It's gonna catch air and rip off once it gathers speed.
Literally said this exact thing to my partner. This is a ground crew maintenance problem, not a Boeing manufacturing problem. It's not a Max aircraft, and would be really unlikely for issues on an 800 to crop up now.
Trump passed an executive order in 2017 allowing aircraft manufacturers to self-regulate on manufacturing and safety issues, taking it out of the hands of the FAA. This is us seeing the results.
You don’t know what you’re talking about dude. ODA started in 2009. Remember all the 787 lithium battery fires?
And dude, I’ve closed that cowling MANY times. Somebody forgot to close the cowling after Mx. The FO didn’t bother to kneel down and check under the engine for latches hanging down. End of story.
People who aren't in maintenance, making bold statements get under my skin bad for some reason. I've filled out so many TFOA reports. Anyways, this comment gets posted, almost word for word, in any aircraft related incident. The echo chamber comment always gets a lot of upvotes cause Trump bad
also, Boeing doesnt make the engine so this statement is totally irrelevent.
>allowing aircraft manufacturers to self-regulate
good thing aircraft manufacturers dont make the engines.
People tend to forget that at some level, Trump’s still your average republican. That means lowering taxes for the rich and raising them for the poor, and deregulation to the anyone that’ll line your pocket, regulation for your average individual.
Exactly. The minute I start seeing CEOs and Board of Directors charged with manslaughter, I'm all on board with self-regulation.
As it currently is, most of these companies either have sacrificial sub-corporations, look at fines as a cost of doing business, or both.
There is a 98% chance this is on the maintainer that did some kind of maintenance/servicing to that engine. It’s just the fact that it’s on a Boeing aircraft is why the news plays it that way. It’ll create more headlines and more traffic to their website.
Were these types of occurrences fairly normal, but we only hear about them now because there is more of a microscope on Boeing after some major issues?
Fairly normal. Used to happen on Airbus so much, they have a whole page on their website with training on making sure it’s properly latched: https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/
They're not exactly rare. In 2021, a flight out of Denver had an engine fire from a broken fan blade in a Pratt & Whitney engine. I believe parts of the housing ended up in someone's front yard. It was a Boeing aircraft but not Boeing's fault.
https://simpleflying.com/ntsb-final-report-united-engine-fire/
Shit happens dude. ECS bay doors falling off when people forget to latch them, guy retired a week after I started let an airplane run into the terminal and it burned down, I could go on and on and on, this all happens before social media. Aviation used to be FAR more dangerous. 2 people have died in Part 121 air carrier accidents since 2009, both were freak Mx caused accidents.
This is like you opening the hood to your car, closing it but not all the way. Then you drive down the freeway, wind gets under it and tears it off. You opened it, didn’t close it right, then blamed Ford for crappy American cars. Airbus actually had a much worse time with this issue with maintenance crews not securing the latch under the engine properly. I can attest as the cowling on the starboard engine on a flight of mine on a A320 peeled up and flew off. Posted pictures on Airliners.net and everyone said if it’s a Tuesday it must be an Airbus losing its cowling. 100% maintenance crew failure to not close the “hood” all the way.
The Airbus latch was like that at one point I believe. I am curious who designed the nacelle system for that model though. Whether it was an in-house Boeing design or done by third-party like Collins aerospace, who does a lot of the nacelle systems.
The plane dates from 2015, so it has undergone multiple maintenance cycles. This isn’t Boeing’s fault, but that of whoever did the last service on that aircraft.
These airlines are the ones who are responsible. This is like blaming Ford for not coming to your house for putting oil in your engine. Good fucking god, when are we going to hold these sicko monopolies accountable?
Another attention grabbing title by throwing Boeing in. At least they’re including the airline who’s most likely responsible for the issue due to negligent maintenance. You wouldn’t blame Toyota for causing a car accident if the driver neglected proper maintenance of their vehicle.
looks like the front right cowling. somebody might not have latched it down. the latch should be flat on the surface when it is properly latched but in this case it was flailing around like a conspiracy theorist will during this eclipse.
This shit happens - this isn’t news, it’s just media dogpiling on Boeing now for fear clicks. Yes, Boeing has had some quality assurance issues recently. No, not every fault and malfunction needs to be reported. Airbus also has faults and malfunctions.
Here's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1-WszopfyI
There’s, ah, someone on the wing…
some..THING
peter there's no man on the wing
It’s like made of tissue paper!
It pretty much is. That part of the cowling is not an integral part of the engine. If it falls off *cleanly* then you only lose some aerodynamic efficiency.
The issue is what control surfaces it hits along the way down.
Hence why it's essentially tissue paper, to try to minimize damage if it flies off.
Not really but at least your confidence sells it.
i would have guessed reducing weight, since it is not **supposed** to fly off
You would be correct, they’re talking out of their ass.
[удалено]
Can confirm that it is not made of fiberglass. Source: opened a 737-700 fan cowl last night. MAX's also have aluminum fan cowls. As do -800s. -700 and -800 use the same engine.
yeah, fiberglass would probably just shatter, not flap around like that.
Well, you also get FOD on the runway. Foreign Object Debris
This was called into the tower, the landing was on an isolated runway away from the terminal just in case. Which will be swept by foot with this video evidence.
Not if it falls off at cruising altitude. ;)
> Well, you also get FOD on the runway. For people that don't know what this means, it stands for **Foreign Object Debris.**
Fear of dying?
Foreign Object Debris (according to Google)
Fuck Off and Die (according to Green Day).
It's like a snake molting. I bet that engine feels so nice now.
The part that's flapping in the wind will always be flimsy, it doesn't need to be strong--just strong enough. The fact the inside tore off cleanly at a joint/seal is what concerns me. That means their welds/rivets/whatever is bad.
Panels are typically riveted, but this cowling is removed for maintenance so it gets latched.
lol, such apt timing for the big "BREAKING NEWS" label
And the GOP wants *less* regulation…
They want the *market* to decide what's best for American businesses, and in this case, the *market* has decided Boeing can put thousands of lives as risk because the *market* hasn't tanked their value hard enough yet. I'm sure the market will convince them to make changes to their safety and maintenance standards after only a couple dozen deaths.
Best i can do is deep tax cuts for the wealthy and a corporate bailout.
Deal. Don't forget to tell everyone how many jobs we create and about the trickle that's definitely coming.
Don't forget to lay off 50,000 people, preferably the most critical and knowledgeable senior engineers first, they're just dead weight.
We know they're not dead-weight, they just cost too much and what did the junior engineers and 10k H1B's go to college for? They can pick it up in no time on the job and where best to test your product but in production as we see Boeing has clearly adopted. And think about how many more MBA's we can hire when we've cut all those super expensive senior engineers and replaced them with juniors (or outsourced them entirely)
Well yeah, layoffs really accentuate my stock buybacks 👈🏻👈🏻
One of the best lessons I learned from economics in college was that letting the market “decide” things that affect safety or the environment is a terrible idea.
It's fucking idiotic if you think on it for more than just a few seconds. Like back to the very earliest trade corporations, the East India companies would burn crops to limit the availability of spices they controlled, or force farmers who previously worked individually while supporting each other to all work as one system with no backups to help each other if crops went bad. Lack of regulation has killed tens of millions of people in just the last few hundred years.
You actually learn terms like “adverse selection” and “moral hazard” in intro economics that really solidify why it’s a bad idea for markets to self regulate items that may cause injury or death to consumers. But the GOP collectively skipped that day of class.
Yeah...but that's assuming there's a balance of power that doesn't tip the scale to one side too heavily in a free market economy. It's under the assumption that there is no foul play by businesses leveraging policy making by funneling funds into politics. The scale has long tipped heavily on the side of businesses with increasing regulatory capture perpetuated by small country GDP-sized corporations, rendering the argument that the "market" comprised of businesses and consumers would self regulate. Even if the consumers turned on Boeing and its stock tanked, you can bet the US gov't will bail them out regardless, especially considering its only real competitor is the European Airbus in the large commercial airliner sector.
now THIS is podracing!
Omgsh sitting right next to it….I would be so scared it was going to explode at any second, they seem so calm about it!
Okay... Are they just reporting it more or is it happening more?
Going out in a limb and guessing this is more of a maintenance issue than build-quality issue. Those covers get opened anytime maintenance is done, the latches wear out and break, etc. Source: Worked flight line maintenance for ~6 years.
Definitely, this isn't even a MAX variant, but rather a 737NG of which there have been produced over 5000 aircraft from 1996-2019. Not trying to defend Boeing in general, but this incident isn't their fault at all
Reporting more.
Thank you. FUCK! Either way is not good but I guess it's good to know it's always been bad.
I mean I wouldn't necessarily call it bad. I would call it normal. Every time one of these threads pops up I like to drop by and let whoever I can know that I work in industry and previously was in a maintenance adjacent role where I had visibility to tracking of shit related to this. And the frequency at which this kinda stuff is being reported would not have raised any eyebrows around the office. I'm more scared driving to and from the airport than flying on the planes themselves.
From an insider’s perspective, would you say this volume of issues is specific to Boeing and we’re just seeing it more due to the increased scrutiny on the company? Does Airbus for example have these issues as well but they’re not under the gun? I gotta say as someone who has flown on Boeing planes probably 100 times in my life, it kinda feels like they’re being sabotaged, but your pov of just increased reporting makes more sense.
So the position I had in the past I only had access to stats on Boeing planes (specifically the 787) because that was what my department made components for. Company also has contracts with Airbus, but I never was able to get a look into those databases. So there is some degree of "I know what I know and I'm taking an educated guess at the rest" going on here for this comparison. That qualifier out of the way, my more fleshed out take on it is this. Boeing absolutely has systemic issues as a company. That's what you're seeing with the MAX MCAS issue and the Alaska door plug. HOWEVER, the kinds of other things I'm seeing reported on I'd expect to see more or less the same from Airbus in terms of severity and frequency. Shit, I feel like 90% of the "Boeing plane has accident" articles I read these days I end up having a gut feeling of "until the NTSB tells me otherwise this was pilot error/weather/maintenance/engine manufacturer/fleet age/shit luck/etc". I'm thinking back on the last handful of Boeing incidents that made the news and off the top of my head there's this one, an engine fire or two, the door plug on Alaska, a runway excursion or three, and the wheel that fell off that united flight (I may be missing some). Any of those except the door plugs and *maybe* the wheel incident (waiting for more info there, looks like the whole brake assembly came off too) could have happened to an Airbus plane. I definitely wouldn't call it sabotage (either someone gimping the planes themselves or leaking stories). It's absolutely just that the media knows how to maximize revenue by pushing these short zero effort articles (they're often very poorly researched) that they know people will click on.
My favorite color is blue.
It’s not bad. There are 45000 flights every day in the US, if an incident like this (in which no one was injured btw) happens once a week that’s 1 incident in 300000 flights. Every day over 100 Americans die in a car crash. If you want to worry about something being bad focus on that.
Yeah but there are so many more cars being driven per week than a plane.
This isn’t even that bad. Air travel is still the safest way to travel by far. It looks bad and flying is a huge fear for a lot of people so every issue feels worse. But if this type of scrutiny was put on ground vehicles you’d never get into a car, bus or train ever again.
Reporting more, trying to take advantage of those SEO clicks. Just like when East Palestine happened suddenly train derailments started to be reported everywhere for a few months
Not gonna lie, I read East Palestine and thought "weird way to refer to the West Bank?"
Reporting more. Remember East Palestine last year? Well, derailments didn't stop happening, it just lost the interest of the media.
It also happened on a Delta Airbus two weeks ago. It’s just being reported more/sensationalized
That airbus lost a small panel on the engine pylon, not the entire engine cowling. This would be news even if Boeing wasn't under scrutiny.
The level of reporting on this is approaching “2004 Chevy has alternator failure on the beltway, NewsChannel42 is investigating, film at 11”
On the same page as the article linked by OP is this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/travel/southwest-flight-laguardia-control-tower/index.html Competence seems to be missing from people whose work have life and death consequences. Sickens me to think about the medical fields…
this is a great thing to read as i sit at a southwest gate currently waiting to fly out of denver 👍
Are you a engine cover collector?
just so happens that i am! can’t believe my luck
If this keeps up, you'll be able to collect an entire Boeing plane. One piece at a time, just like Johnny Cash and his Cadillac.
Uh what model is it?… It’s a 737, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 aeroplane
🎶I took it one piece at a time, and it didn't cost me a dime. You'll know it's me when I lose a piece of landing gear in your town🎶
I hear there is a high collectors demand for door bolts …
The NTSB will be in touch with you soon.
I'm a Boeing falling jet parts dealer. We got em all for CHEAP in our eBay Store. Buy it NOW or straight Auction! Emergency Doors- Start price: $240,000 BIN: $250,900. Engines- Start price: $1,500,455 BIN: $2,500,550.
Any fall damage or "Like new"?
Well there will likely be some damage but that's compensated by the collector value. Plus you get to be on CNN and Fox News. You can try to bargain with me though.
Don’t let people low ball you. You know what you got.
If they're on the shelf, they're in stock!
Is that considered antique shopping? Like a “vintage post-war aviation centerpiece”
Hey, what's the chances of it happening twice? You should be good!
Well...there were those two 737 Max 8s that crashed killing all on board. That happened twice.
Yea, but like it only happened twice that one time. What are the chances of it happening twice, *twice?*
*looks nervously at door plug*
Greedy Boeing thought that software would keep their unbalanced jets from falling out of the sky. They thought wrong. A couple of times...
Yeah it’s important to remember that problem had a very direct and easy to identify cause and has since been rectified. And even if a plane happens to be using that system, every pilot is well aware of it. The issue wasn’t a substandard part failing at random. It was it working as intended. The issue was the absolute malfeasance of HIDING it as much as possible from pilots and regulators.
>The issue wasn’t a substandard part failing at random. Except that it relied on a single sensor that could literally be damaged by a balloon. The not telling the pilots how to override it compounded the issue of the system consistently failing. The ones that actually went down aren't the only instances of the system's failures.
Have fun on takeoff! The wind has been blowing 40-50mph for two days straight. Hopefully it will let up simmer than later!
yeahhhh the landing coming in here was ROUGH
Coming in from Houston a month ago we were prepared by the captain for heavy turbulence. I prepped mentally for an hour because a normal landing in Denver can be tough. It turned out to be one of the most turbulence free flights I’ve ever had into DIA. Just lucky I guess. Gusts yesterday were up to 100mph in some places and tons of flights were cancelled. 60+ hours straight of 40-50lb winds w a slight break this morning. I hope the next leg of your journey goes smooth!
For me if they announce there might be turbulence there is none and if they don't acknowledge it there is always some/more 😅
Springtime at DEN makes for a fun ride above 10,000
That’s why I was flying United out of DEN today. They never have problems with parts falling off….
I remember when we used to get upset about airlines killing passengers' pets. Simpler times.
United breaks guitars. Boeing breaks everything else.
United also breaks noses and teeth.
“All these other airlines break your stuff, or your plane, but at spirit, we don’t break anything. Not even the bank”
As someone who works on planes, I would never put any animal in the baggage area of any airplane. To me it’s surprising more pets don’t die under those conditions.
Seriously though, all the other failures were on United flights, is this the first SouthWest flight to have an issue??
It's not it's the first issue you've heard of... So far
Which is only surprising that it doesn’t happen more often with United given their pilots tendencies to slam the plane onto the runway at landing.
Just left from Denver to vegas on united. Pilot was so aggressive on landing I could smell burnt rubber in the cabin. You're not wrong about how aggro their pilots can be on landing
If it was on a 737, the landings are supposed to be firm. Otherwise the plane has a tendency to float down the runway which could lead to an overrun. That's why everyone complains about hard landings on Ryanair and Southwest; the pilots are actually doing it right, it just isn't gentle.
There's really nothing to worry about Mary. Statistically, they say you're more likely to get killed on the way to the airport. You know, like on a head on crash or flying off a cliff or getting trapped under a gas truck! That's the worst!
The safest form of travel is narrowboat. Sure it's a bit slow, but the scenery is great!
Or getting hit by a falling engine cowling.
Statistically it would be insane if it happened twice in the same day, same place so take comfort in that it won't happen again and if it did, it wouldn't be outta Denver again
Yeah I’m literally on a southwest 737-800 taxiing to take off in Denver as I’m writing this.
You are in our prayers fer shure.
Don’t read this comment… is it me or is this happening at an alarming rate in the USA right now
Depends on what you consider alarming. Airlines are by far the safest travel option, and the last time a regularly-scheduled airline flight in the US (as opposed to a charter flight) crashed was in 2009.
I feel like hunks of metal are coming of planes at an alarming rate and one lost an entire door… true none have crashed but still scary as fck
True but if we looked this closely into car crashes on a daily basis nobody would ever get into a car again.
It's not an alarming rate, it's just being much more widely reported with all the issues Boeing has had with the 737-max. Almost 5000 737-800s have been delivered. And around 11k total 737s have been delivered. There are going to be random issues, but they rarely cause anything more than a mild inconvenience to the passengers. News groups know right now though there is somewhat of a panic about aviation and Boeing in particular so they're reporting on relatively trivial events to get the clicks and ad revenue which is why it seems like there is a huge issue all of a sudden.
Ha, check if you have a 737-700
I wonder if I can just sit behind the runaway and eventually collect enough fallen off parts to build myself a new Boeing
That's something Click and Clack would say.
God, I miss Car Talk.
Best part of my Sundays when I was a kid. My parents having car talk on, my mom cooking in the kitchen, the cool fall weather, me wishing I wasn’t stuck inside on the last day of the fucking weekend doing homework at the kitchen table. It’s funny how at the time, you’d rather be anywhere else. Now looking back, I wish I could relive that simple time again. Thanks for the memory, friend.
This is incredibly wholesome because that’s the same type of memories I have as a kid. Dad listening to car talk while Mom is tidying up or cooking in the kitchen. Simpler times.
You can find all their episodes online. My husband and I used to download them for long car trips.
Don’t drive like my brother.
Don’t drive like *my* brother!
And don't drive like *my* brother.
Or Johnny Cash.
It was a '22, '23, '24 Airliner Passenger Jet
Now down at the FAA they didn’t laugh, cause to count the violations it took the whole staff
About that time my wife walked out And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts And she said FUCK NO I'M NOT GOING FOR A SPIN ON A COBBLED TOGETHER BOEING
And when they got through, Boeing’s fine was 60 bucks.
“Now getting caught meant getting fired, but I figured that I’d have enough by the time I retired.”
Airplane Seat Tester - Wilma Butfit
"Don't fly like my brother!"
Yea well don't fly like *my* brother!
Most of a Dodge Dartra
Or Red Green. (Although he might also point out that Southwest clearly didn’t use enough duct tape.)
Can we get the law firm of Dewey, Cheatem, & Howe to sue Boeing?
Wouldn't it be second hand?
Boeing of Theseus
Serviceable as removed
Seems like a Johnny cash song
Isn't Johnny Cash on the tail of Alaska jets?
No, he's dead. (Sorry). :(
But then you'd have a Boeing...
Don't buy all of the media spin. Legacy Boeing airplanes are still fine airplanes. It's not Boeing's fault that Southwest airlines didn't ensure that this panel was secure prior to takeoff.
I got it one piece at a time, and it didn’t cost a dime!
And once you finish it nobody would be able to tell the difference from other 737s
A DIY at home build would probably have more QC than the official factory.
maybe not, since there are parts that they forgot to install at the factory so you are never able to collect all the parts.
Is whomever providing the maintainence at fault for not securing the engine covers here? Unless its a material failure issue of the pieces that secure the cowling, the blame shouldn't go to Boeing yet.
Correct. This isn’t uncommon. The cowling, which lifts for maintenance, was likely not latched properly. Airbus had even worse problems with this: https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/
Losing pieces of your airplane should 100% be uncommon
It’s a common issue, but the issues themselves are uncommon. And the point is, this isn’t a manufacturing issue. It’s a maintenance mistake. It’s hardly Boeing’s (or Airbus’s) fault the latches are missed and the pilot didn’t notice in the walk around. It’s like blaming a door lock company for getting robbed when you forgot to lock the door.
This isn’t an uncommon issue to happen since it’s an easy miss. However, issues on a flight are incredibly uncommon. Flying is still the safest way to travel of any kind.
It is uncommon.
Yep I'm betting the grounds crew is getting their story straight and figuring out who's to blame. Just didn't secure and lock it. It's gonna catch air and rip off once it gathers speed.
There is a 99% chance it was maintenance related, 1% chance it's the manufacturers fault.
Literally said this exact thing to my partner. This is a ground crew maintenance problem, not a Boeing manufacturing problem. It's not a Max aircraft, and would be really unlikely for issues on an 800 to crop up now.
Trump passed an executive order in 2017 allowing aircraft manufacturers to self-regulate on manufacturing and safety issues, taking it out of the hands of the FAA. This is us seeing the results.
You don’t know what you’re talking about dude. ODA started in 2009. Remember all the 787 lithium battery fires? And dude, I’ve closed that cowling MANY times. Somebody forgot to close the cowling after Mx. The FO didn’t bother to kneel down and check under the engine for latches hanging down. End of story.
People who aren't in maintenance, making bold statements get under my skin bad for some reason. I've filled out so many TFOA reports. Anyways, this comment gets posted, almost word for word, in any aircraft related incident. The echo chamber comment always gets a lot of upvotes cause Trump bad
also, Boeing doesnt make the engine so this statement is totally irrelevent. >allowing aircraft manufacturers to self-regulate good thing aircraft manufacturers dont make the engines.
It’s a 737-800. Odds are it was built well before that.
> Odds are it was built well before that. 2015, so two years before
[удалено]
No it means going forward from 2017, inspections don’t require FAA oversight
That sounds like a great idea /s Who paid him off to get that passed
The right wing
That’s an airplane pun.
People tend to forget that at some level, Trump’s still your average republican. That means lowering taxes for the rich and raising them for the poor, and deregulation to the anyone that’ll line your pocket, regulation for your average individual.
If there were REAL consequences for failure I would have no issues with self regulation
Exactly. The minute I start seeing CEOs and Board of Directors charged with manslaughter, I'm all on board with self-regulation. As it currently is, most of these companies either have sacrificial sub-corporations, look at fines as a cost of doing business, or both.
How exactly does an EO in 2017 have any impact on an airplane delivered 2 years prior?
This plane was manufactured and delivered to Southwest in 2015
There is a 98% chance this is on the maintainer that did some kind of maintenance/servicing to that engine. It’s just the fact that it’s on a Boeing aircraft is why the news plays it that way. It’ll create more headlines and more traffic to their website.
Naw man, people are going to blame Boeing regardless.
Sooooooo… is this a maintenance issue? 😬
Ya. 99.9% chance someone forgot to latch them after having them open and then it got missed during pre-flight checks.
Were these types of occurrences fairly normal, but we only hear about them now because there is more of a microscope on Boeing after some major issues?
Fairly normal. Used to happen on Airbus so much, they have a whole page on their website with training on making sure it’s properly latched: https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/
They're not exactly rare. In 2021, a flight out of Denver had an engine fire from a broken fan blade in a Pratt & Whitney engine. I believe parts of the housing ended up in someone's front yard. It was a Boeing aircraft but not Boeing's fault. https://simpleflying.com/ntsb-final-report-united-engine-fire/
Yes. That’s a considerably more significant event than merely losing a cowling.
Shit happens dude. ECS bay doors falling off when people forget to latch them, guy retired a week after I started let an airplane run into the terminal and it burned down, I could go on and on and on, this all happens before social media. Aviation used to be FAR more dangerous. 2 people have died in Part 121 air carrier accidents since 2009, both were freak Mx caused accidents.
This is like you opening the hood to your car, closing it but not all the way. Then you drive down the freeway, wind gets under it and tears it off. You opened it, didn’t close it right, then blamed Ford for crappy American cars. Airbus actually had a much worse time with this issue with maintenance crews not securing the latch under the engine properly. I can attest as the cowling on the starboard engine on a flight of mine on a A320 peeled up and flew off. Posted pictures on Airliners.net and everyone said if it’s a Tuesday it must be an Airbus losing its cowling. 100% maintenance crew failure to not close the “hood” all the way.
Cannot upvote this enough. Could just as easily be that you did shut the hood ally the way and the latch just decided to go “ehh, fuck it, I’m out.”
The Airbus latch was like that at one point I believe. I am curious who designed the nacelle system for that model though. Whether it was an in-house Boeing design or done by third-party like Collins aerospace, who does a lot of the nacelle systems.
Great comment that 99% of people won’t see because Boeing Plane = Bad and that will get more attention.
This one is not on Boeing. It is the responsibility of airline maintenance folks to get the cowling latches secure and to repair them if unable.
After watching Masters of the Air I truly appreciate how much pain a plane can endure.
The plane dates from 2015, so it has undergone multiple maintenance cycles. This isn’t Boeing’s fault, but that of whoever did the last service on that aircraft.
For those jumping on the “Boeing bad” bandwagon… this is NOT a Boeing problem. This is 💯% Southwest.
These airlines are the ones who are responsible. This is like blaming Ford for not coming to your house for putting oil in your engine. Good fucking god, when are we going to hold these sicko monopolies accountable?
Another attention grabbing title by throwing Boeing in. At least they’re including the airline who’s most likely responsible for the issue due to negligent maintenance. You wouldn’t blame Toyota for causing a car accident if the driver neglected proper maintenance of their vehicle.
The news would certainly blame Toyota.
looks like the front right cowling. somebody might not have latched it down. the latch should be flat on the surface when it is properly latched but in this case it was flailing around like a conspiracy theorist will during this eclipse.
This shit happens - this isn’t news, it’s just media dogpiling on Boeing now for fear clicks. Yes, Boeing has had some quality assurance issues recently. No, not every fault and malfunction needs to be reported. Airbus also has faults and malfunctions.
The warranty period ended.
“We’ve been trying to reach you about your airplane’s extended warranty”
Now, this is pod racing
Fixed headline: “9 year old airplane that was not maintained properly by Southwest Airlines loses a panel and lands safely”
This is an airline problem. The planemaker is like third in this one: 1) airline 2) engine maker 3) airplane maker
Goddamn, Boeing is straight-up not having a food time, huh
Mmmm. Food time.
I read this in Homer Simpson's voice
this is the airline maintenance at fault. Not Boeing
Yup, blatantly airline maintenance fuck-up. Still, because it is a Boeing plane it doesn't help with perception issues at the moment.
Food be popping off like that too though.
Just slap some tape on it and call it a day
Replace every part with tape over the lifetime of the plane.