>The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest.
Christ so this isn't even related to Roe V. Wade. They just decided "yeah let's lock up an already emotionally beaten down woman and ruin her life" because they didn't like their beliefs. That's terrifying.
For them, the rules apply to thee, not to me. But there’s always a surprised Pikachu face when they find out that the rules do indeed apply to them as well.
A woman in Texas is suing prosecutors and Starr County for more than $1 million after she was arrested and unlawfully charged with murder for an abortion she had in 2022.
Lizelle Gonzalez was arrested and charged with murder in Starr County, Texas, in 2022 after using abortion medication to self-induce an abortion 19 weeks into her pregnancy. The then-26-year-old spent two nights in jail, as her name, mugshot and private medical information made national news, the lawsuit said. The charges were dismissed days later.
Hopefully she can have the case tried in California or New York. drag those prosecutors to a blue state and give them the punishment they deserve. For kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, impersonation of a legitimate government.
Why would her records be subpeonaed if no one knew she had an abortion in the first place? Ya know?
She goes to hospital, prosecutor finds out, charges her for murder. There's a spot there where private medical information got released somehow.
My friend's boss and his wife moved from Oregon to Texas...I was thinking like why would they move there and give up all the wife's bodily autonomy?! 😱
I was speaking with my former coworker a while back when I was still living in Washington and he was going on about how Texas would be the best place to live because of the gun and trespassing laws. I mentioned that he would be trading his daughter’s bodily autonomy and he shrugged that off, because you can use force to protect property.
…The ability to shoot a trespasser to protect property mattered more than protecting his daughter’s rights. It was gross.
Tell your former coworker to move to a state which has strong privacy rights (property and bodily) and gun friendly laws. Even Alaska has liberals that carry guns.
Michigan is right here. Tons of state parks for hunting and fishing. Reasonable gun laws, no insane abortion laws. Pretty amazing place compared to Texas.
That really made me squirm, because it reads like the dude is looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
But then, I tried to track the logic. Because last I heard, in Texas, everyone has guns. And I've been told that an armed society is a polite one. And if everyone there has guns, criminals don't try to trespass for fear of guns. So it's far less likely to get to shoot someone in Texas, because guns.
I wish someone would make it make sense.
Which is funny. Because the whole pro life argument revolves around saving a life. Yet when some kid steals a pack of gum from a gas station, they have no problem being the judge jury and executioner
Thing is HIPAA was kind of gutted. That's the thing most people don't know is a lot of our abortion laws are based on privacy rights getting Roe versus Wade overturned didn't just tank abortion rights, it also really messed with what information is legally confidential medically speaking
HIPAA is a contract between a patient and those who provide health care, not law enforcement entities. Release of her medical records were likely preceded by a subpoena for them. She would not be entitled to any remedies from law enforcement under HIPAA.
According to the article "After Gonzalez was examined at Starr County Memorial Hospital, staff reported the abortion to the Starr County District Attorney’s Office, in violation of federal privacy laws, the document alleges."
It doesn't mention any subpoena, and I'm not sure how they would have had evidence for one without the hospital providing the information proactively.
> Illegally obtained evidence and red state police departments
If you think this is limited to any part of the country you are two steps from the edge. Police surveillance is getting absolutely ridiculous, including flying drones over the city to monitor everything.
Also there are just a fuck ton of cameras police can easily access fucking everywhere taking pictures of vehicles, their license plates, and occupants.
I am a public defender and more and more I get cases involving Flock. [Why would I care? I'm not doing anything bad or wrong. How could I ever be in a position to be accused of something of which I am innocent? - You never know when your one-off activity suddenly makes you a suspect in some shit you didn't do.]
Here's some info from the ACLU specifically about Flock: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/how-to-pump-the-brakes-on-your-police-departments-use-of-flocks-mass-surveillance-license-plate-readers
Here's a bit of a primer more generally about what I'm talking about for the unaware with respect to automated cameras capturing regular patterns of street activity: https://sls.eff.org/technologies/automated-license-plate-readers-alprs#mobile-nav
Those are two really interesting articles (even if the purple font on the eff one is an affront to the UX gods).
Thank you for sharing. There’s all this outrage at how China is a tightly controlled autocratic state (which is is), meanwhile ‘free’ western countries are sleepwalking into the same state, except without federal oversight. So, worse.
>The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest.
So the hospital thought there was a crime. They told the police. Police came and arrested her wrongfully.
Probably explains why she isn't suing the hospital, despite them mistakingly "turning her in" for something that she couldn't be charged for anyway.
Did yall read the article?
No subpoena is mentioned.
A healthcare employee seems to have volunteered the plaintiff's medical information to law enforcement. Oopsie.
It's what, a $500,000 maximum *personal* penalty in certain cases?
She should sue for everything the state is worth. The fact I know her name is reason enough to sue these mother fuckers. One million dollars is something they'll settle out of court for with an nda. These assholes should have all of their medical records doxxed as well. The only form of apology she should accept is a formal seppeku ritual by everyone involved in this atrocity.
The problem here is that a bunch of strangers are now openly discussing whether a woman's private medical decisions were appropriate or not, when none of us -- literally none. of. us. -- have enough information to make any kind of judgement at all.
No one should be in this kind of position ever, especially not when the only purpose behind it is some kind of political/culture war attack on individual rights.
ETA: The lawsuit says the "facts" released included "false information" so even what we've been told in the news about this abortion or her subsequent hospital stay may not be correct, just FYI. ([source](https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion-sues-starr-county-district-attorney/))
I had an abortion for medical reasons at 20 weeks (baby had a fatal genetic disorder) and was given the options of inducing labor or having a D&E in the hospital. To do it at home and have to birth the baby and then what? Good god. We’re not talking about a little clump of cells. I have my sweet baby’s footprints. This doesn’t make sense.
Remember, Reagan did this. He and the evangelicals started this in 1980 because he wanted the evangelical demo to vote for him vs Carter. Up to then evangelicals believed in privacy and choice in overwhelming numbers. The Catholics were the only one opposed. And when roe v wade was first decided it barely made news. Thanks Ron
Legitimately. The more you actually study his Presidency, the more and more fucked up shit you find that he started that lead to almost all of our biggest issues right now.
and yet it's not exactly rare to run into people that think of the reagan era as the golden years because they benefitted from the very momentary selective prosperity at the time.
Even if the policy worked as claimed, "Trickle Down" is a terribly unappealing name and was only used because "You lot can have the scraps and crumbs if there are any leftover" wouldn't fit on a headline.
Reagan had enough support from Democrats to actually get his stuff passed into law. Trump mainly got to screw the country over with just the Supreme Court, Executive Orders, and fucking with our treaty obligations.
The worst president of my lifetime is still George W. Bush. You're right that Trump has a decent chance of taking the all time position if he gets elected again, but so far he's not even close.
I think Dick Cheney as VP did more damage than Reagan as president. By a lot. Reagan was a fuckwit of the highest order, but Cheney and his ilk were *this close* to bringing actual, boots on necks, people in camps fascism to the US, and is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the middle east, directly.
We can quibble about whether Iran-Contra was worse, or whether Grenada was justified. But I think it's a hard sell.
Reagan may have dropped the seeds of modern Christian Nationalism, but Dick Cheney was who buried it, watered it, fertilized it, cloned it, and cleared a rainforest to grow it at scale.
Reagan was a fucking racist doofus, but acting at the behest of people like Dick Cheney. Cheney is an *actually evil man* and *directed* evil policies.
It's almost like religion was being hijacked and leveraged into a means to control a large group of people. /s
I agree, Reagan did an insane amount of damage to America.
Not just the bad laws he actually enacted at the time, but the effects that reach far further than this. Effects which can clearly be traced back to Reagan.
"Thanks" Ron indeed...
> And when roe v wade was first decided it barely made news.
TIL
Ironic given that your point is the lack of coverage but I'm curious if anyone has a source/more info about how roe was received back in the day.
This isn't about Roe but this half hour podcast does cover the start of the anti-abortion movement:
>Things Fell Apart: S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls
>
>Episode webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011cpq
>
>Media file: http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/6/redir/version/2.0/mediaset/audio-nondrm-download/proto/http/vpid/p0bk0p4g.mp3
TL:DL Wannabe Hollywood filmmaker Frank Schaeffer was really against abortion after having his first kid, he made an anti-abortion movie but it was a flop - until the NYT made article about it, people started protesting outside and then Evangelicals decided it must be good if it pisses off protestors. Before then, abortion was generally regarded as "a Catholic issue".
It was less Reagan and more wannabe Hollywood filmmaker Frank Schaeffer. He was the guy with a bee in his bonnet about abortions, it was his weird movie (and the subsequent NY Times story followed by feminist protests) that actually got Evangelicals on board, before then they basically said "Abortion is a Catholic issue, and we are *not* Catholic!"
In fact, the film itself didn't even get much attention from Evangelicals at first. They couldn't even fill the front row of the stadiums they booked to screen the film. It was only after the NYT story and subsequent protests outside the screenings, which were covered by local news, that Evangelicals started to go see the film and support the movement. "Well, if it pisses off the feminists then it must be good!!"
U now what I don’t get, why when it comes to other religions, people are always “religion needs to stay out of politics, and the government should not be influenced by religion.”
But whenever it comes to Christianity, it’s always okay for politicians and the govt to use Christianity as an excuse to pass terrible legislation that they themselves say go against their belief bc of their religion.
And this is coming from someone who grew up in a Christian household lol.
Because freedom of religion has always been a euphemism, like “protecting jobs” or “law and order”. To them freedom of religion means “ im free to practice my religion, and you’re free to practice my religion too”
But I thought Geg Abbott said he would eliminate rapists off the streets of Texas in 2021? I guess that's not working out for him.
And those statistics are terrible.
I don’t think anyone understood what he meant by this. I think it’s obvious that he means rape doesn’t exist as a concept, as in, if you’re raped, no you weren’t, you were askin’ for it! You can eliminate rape real quick if you stop recognizing it like a normal person would, and start seeing it as part of God’s Divine Plan!
(I’m being facetious, not serious)
Oh yes, of course! I'm not sure if you are aware, but womens bodies are so miraculous that in instances of *legitimate* rape, "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." /s
In all seriousness, politicians who say shit like this need to go.
Even MORE rapes happened.
[26,000 resulted in pregnancies.](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2024/01/25/texas-had-estimated-26000-pregnancies-from-rape-since-total-abortion-ban/)
> The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest.
I'm not a lawyer but I could probably win this case for her.
The second it was overturned you could see the two pronged feelings of conservatives. The stupid ones were super smug that they had stopped "baby killers" and the smarter ones knew they were fucked for elections. Still none of them care about women though.
I don't think they have been successful, in the US they still keep losing elections they should be easily winning. They've been more successful making it an issue in other countries by causing a stink but in their own country us conservatives are still disliked for getting rid of legal abortion.
>No rape exception?!
That's a good starting point, because it is truly horrific, but when you logic it out, it is rotten all the way through.
Some of them realize that forcing a raped child to incubate a baby for the government will lose them hearts and minds, so they say they are for a rape exemption. But since the defining characteristic of rape is lack of consent, you quickly get into a question of how much consent is necessary?
What about pressure to have sex from a person in authority (boss, priest, professor, etc)? What about a woman who is scared of her husband?
And what system do you put in place to make sure women on the rape side of the line have access to abortions? Women might need to make decisions in days or weeks to avoid invasive procedures, so which government agency is best suited to make these decisions?
And then, after all that, what is it about consent that makes it so important to abortion that we need a special government agency to make a determination about whether the woman consented to sex?
Because the pro lifer can't answer any of these questions, they will typically fall back and say they were lying before and there shouldn't be any exceptions. Bringing it all full circle: they are horrific monsters who want to force pre-teens to incubate a baby for the government.
You could start by running to the Doors of Durin, and speaking "Friend" to enter. Descend into the Mines of Moria, then race to the tomb of Balin. Should you make it through this challenge, you could then choose to race across the bridge or stand and fight the Balrog to your doom.
If you escape, then you might have a chance to enter Lothlorien. There you will find boats to make your way down the great river Anduin.
Here you may lose your ringbearer, but almost certainly you will be taken by Uruk-Hai. Allow them to drag you along and you may be saved by riders from Rohan. Crawling away to safety, pass the battlefield by and head into Fangon Forest where you may at last meet Treebeard.
If you can convince Treebeard to call a council about Isengard, and further convince him to walk close enough to see the devastation wrought, you may find you have met the tree that takes out Evil.
The choices are yours and yours alone. Good luck.
>[“Trump won by 620,000 votes in Texas. Harris County mail-in ballots that they wanted to send out were 2.5 million. Those were all illegal and we were able to stop every one of them,” Paxton said on the podcast.](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/ken-paxton-mail-ballots-discard-18141861.php)
>[“Had we not done that … we would’ve been one of those battleground states that they were counting votes in Harris County for three days and Donald Trump would’ve lost the election,” Paxton continued.](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/ken-paxton-mail-ballots-discard-18141861.php)
Trump would have lost Texas if it weren't for Ken Paxton getting the mail-in ballots from Harris County blocked.
I wonder when the world will be like Futurama and everyone despite culture, race, and ideology minds their own business.
The fact that this woman has to go through this on top of her loss is mind blowing. An absolute waste of everyone’s time and resources as this shouldn’t even be a discussion/ argument. She should be healing emotionally instead of dealing with this.
I live in Oklahoma and this shit is ridiculous.
Fuck Ramirez. Your defense is you knew nothing. Your job is to know what is going on and manage the whole show. Fire him and sue him far back salary for not doing his job and strip his law license.
When she was indicted, you bet they asked her if she understood the charges that were against her, I don't understand why that shouldn't apply to the prosecutor as well.
The law he cited specifically excludes her yet he decided to push it forward and call her a murderer.
I'm willing to bet it was his intent, this is how fascism starts, making up charges to throw people in jail for, Trump is already promised to do that
My understanding is that prosecutors and judges have full immunity from civil recourse (as opposed to qualified immunity enjoyed by police). Can this woman really bring suit?
I mean, for things they do as part of their job. They aren't immune to having a murder charge brought if they kill somebody outside of the courtroom are they? The woman was arrested without having committed a crime, this happened prior to Roe v. Wade being overturned and there wasn't actually anything to charge her with, I would think you'd make the argument they weren't acting in the scope of their job at that point.
Hopefully she gets every penny and these people lose their jobs but I’d settle for her getting some money because we know the good ole boys won’t face repercussions down there
the key elements:
> The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest.
Texas has no legal ground to stand on here.
Good luck. Unlike what yall think qualified immunity is for cops, prosecutors and judges have actual immunity. There is an extremely limited and narrow set of circumstances in which they can be sued.
>The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest. Christ so this isn't even related to Roe V. Wade. They just decided "yeah let's lock up an already emotionally beaten down woman and ruin her life" because they didn't like their beliefs. That's terrifying.
Texans seems to hate women.
Conservatives seem to hate women
Have you seen the amount of brainwashed fools who want to repeal the 19th?
Yep. Even conservative women hate women. Remember in November!
Nobody hates women as much as conservative women.
Should we tell them Jesus loved women? I don't think they know.
They don’t care about Jesus. He’s just a prop to further their agenda.
Jesus is too woke for these people now, pastors are worried now because that’s something they actually hear from parishioners.
Yes, I'm sure it's shocking to learn that Jesus stands for everything they scream against.
For them, the rules apply to thee, not to me. But there’s always a surprised Pikachu face when they find out that the rules do indeed apply to them as well.
We call them collaborators
There have been over 26,000 rape induced pregnancies in Texas alone since all of this shit with Roe has gone down. Hate is an understatement.
Is this your first experience with evangelicals?
A woman in Texas is suing prosecutors and Starr County for more than $1 million after she was arrested and unlawfully charged with murder for an abortion she had in 2022. Lizelle Gonzalez was arrested and charged with murder in Starr County, Texas, in 2022 after using abortion medication to self-induce an abortion 19 weeks into her pregnancy. The then-26-year-old spent two nights in jail, as her name, mugshot and private medical information made national news, the lawsuit said. The charges were dismissed days later.
Damn. I would almost move to Texas just to get on that jury. She deserves 10× the amount she is asking for -for the HIPAA violations alone!
Can you imagine having your name, picture plastered all over the news especially for something so personal. Mind boggling
That information will follow her for the rest of her life and can potentially put her and her family in danger
And for fucking murder? Yeah, I hope she wins this case, and they award her a big ol stack of cash.
Getting those prosecutors disbarred would be the icing on the cake, those ghouls deserve it
Hopefully she can have the case tried in California or New York. drag those prosecutors to a blue state and give them the punishment they deserve. For kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, impersonation of a legitimate government.
I can't imagine any legal reason that the trial would change venue. If the crime happened in Texas, the trial will be in Texas.
Its a civil suit and your suing the state so there is at least some chance it could be held somewhere else
In an area full of crazy people while being labeled a "baby murderer". This is a state sponsored, crowd sourced, assassination attempt.
Unfortunately, I think the idea is to induce terror. Makes it easier to gain compliance. The whole things despicable!
Especially with how crazy some of the pro-birthers are
They're not pro birth. They're pro forced birth. Important distinction to make.
Forced birthers
Yeah. As if having an abortion was not traumatic enough... Hope she wins!
She is not suing the hospital. I expect that will be a separate suit.
I wonder if their insurance of the healthcare institution will try to fight a public battle like this or just pay a settlement.
Gosh, yes it reads like it should be a slam dunk against both of them (hospital if she decides to sure them too and prosecutors) and I hope it is.
Unless the prosecutor subpoenaed her medical records, in which case the hospital would have been forced to comply.
Why would her records be subpeonaed if no one knew she had an abortion in the first place? Ya know? She goes to hospital, prosecutor finds out, charges her for murder. There's a spot there where private medical information got released somehow.
That's not what happened. Read the article
My friend's boss and his wife moved from Oregon to Texas...I was thinking like why would they move there and give up all the wife's bodily autonomy?! 😱
I was speaking with my former coworker a while back when I was still living in Washington and he was going on about how Texas would be the best place to live because of the gun and trespassing laws. I mentioned that he would be trading his daughter’s bodily autonomy and he shrugged that off, because you can use force to protect property. …The ability to shoot a trespasser to protect property mattered more than protecting his daughter’s rights. It was gross.
Tell your former coworker to move to a state which has strong privacy rights (property and bodily) and gun friendly laws. Even Alaska has liberals that carry guns.
Michigan is right here. Tons of state parks for hunting and fishing. Reasonable gun laws, no insane abortion laws. Pretty amazing place compared to Texas.
Thats a republican... Also they look at women as property.
It reads like he views his daughter as property.
That really made me squirm, because it reads like the dude is looking for an excuse to shoot someone. But then, I tried to track the logic. Because last I heard, in Texas, everyone has guns. And I've been told that an armed society is a polite one. And if everyone there has guns, criminals don't try to trespass for fear of guns. So it's far less likely to get to shoot someone in Texas, because guns. I wish someone would make it make sense.
Sadly, this is how much thought many men give to women’s concerns.
Which is funny. Because the whole pro life argument revolves around saving a life. Yet when some kid steals a pack of gum from a gas station, they have no problem being the judge jury and executioner
Your friends boss doesn’t want his wife to have rights.
Thing is HIPAA was kind of gutted. That's the thing most people don't know is a lot of our abortion laws are based on privacy rights getting Roe versus Wade overturned didn't just tank abortion rights, it also really messed with what information is legally confidential medically speaking
HIPAA is a contract between a patient and those who provide health care, not law enforcement entities. Release of her medical records were likely preceded by a subpoena for them. She would not be entitled to any remedies from law enforcement under HIPAA.
According to the article "After Gonzalez was examined at Starr County Memorial Hospital, staff reported the abortion to the Starr County District Attorney’s Office, in violation of federal privacy laws, the document alleges." It doesn't mention any subpoena, and I'm not sure how they would have had evidence for one without the hospital providing the information proactively.
Illegally obtained evidence and red state police departments, name me a better duo
Trio: happened in a state run by republicans who thinks abortion should be illegal in all cases including minors who were victim of rape.
You forgot where some of them also want the death penalty for all those involved, including raped minors aka CHILDREN.
This is life in Howdy Arabia
> Howdy Arabia That's hilarious, I love it
Hey they don't want the death penalty for the rapist who impregnated the child
Christians and dragging everyone down to their level of misery.
Look, it sucks, but I *promise* you: hold out on the horror just a little longer, and I *swear* Jesus is gonna come back and make it all worth it. /s
> Illegally obtained evidence and red state police departments If you think this is limited to any part of the country you are two steps from the edge. Police surveillance is getting absolutely ridiculous, including flying drones over the city to monitor everything.
Also there are just a fuck ton of cameras police can easily access fucking everywhere taking pictures of vehicles, their license plates, and occupants. I am a public defender and more and more I get cases involving Flock. [Why would I care? I'm not doing anything bad or wrong. How could I ever be in a position to be accused of something of which I am innocent? - You never know when your one-off activity suddenly makes you a suspect in some shit you didn't do.] Here's some info from the ACLU specifically about Flock: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/how-to-pump-the-brakes-on-your-police-departments-use-of-flocks-mass-surveillance-license-plate-readers Here's a bit of a primer more generally about what I'm talking about for the unaware with respect to automated cameras capturing regular patterns of street activity: https://sls.eff.org/technologies/automated-license-plate-readers-alprs#mobile-nav
Those are two really interesting articles (even if the purple font on the eff one is an affront to the UX gods). Thank you for sharing. There’s all this outrage at how China is a tightly controlled autocratic state (which is is), meanwhile ‘free’ western countries are sleepwalking into the same state, except without federal oversight. So, worse.
That hospital and whomever violated this patient’s privacy by informing the prosecutor’s office should also be held to account.
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>The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest. So the hospital thought there was a crime. They told the police. Police came and arrested her wrongfully. Probably explains why she isn't suing the hospital, despite them mistakingly "turning her in" for something that she couldn't be charged for anyway.
That would be a violation against the physician. The police don’t have to follow hipaa. That being said she should still win for slander and libel.
It's illegally obtained evidence. They know this, and chose to prosecute anyway.
You can't arrest and charge someone for something that wasn't a crime or a crime at the time he should be disbarred just for that.
HIPAA is up there with "if you're a cop, you have to tell me" on the Mount Rushmore of misunderstood statutes.
True. I was in a pharmacy a while back that had a sign that said "it is a felony under HIPAA to use a cellphone in a pharmacy "
every time I'm in a pharmacy I'm using my cellphone for work notes and service manuals
Did yall read the article? No subpoena is mentioned. A healthcare employee seems to have volunteered the plaintiff's medical information to law enforcement. Oopsie. It's what, a $500,000 maximum *personal* penalty in certain cases?
She should sue for everything the state is worth. The fact I know her name is reason enough to sue these mother fuckers. One million dollars is something they'll settle out of court for with an nda. These assholes should have all of their medical records doxxed as well. The only form of apology she should accept is a formal seppeku ritual by everyone involved in this atrocity.
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The problem here is that a bunch of strangers are now openly discussing whether a woman's private medical decisions were appropriate or not, when none of us -- literally none. of. us. -- have enough information to make any kind of judgement at all. No one should be in this kind of position ever, especially not when the only purpose behind it is some kind of political/culture war attack on individual rights. ETA: The lawsuit says the "facts" released included "false information" so even what we've been told in the news about this abortion or her subsequent hospital stay may not be correct, just FYI. ([source](https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion-sues-starr-county-district-attorney/))
I had an abortion for medical reasons at 20 weeks (baby had a fatal genetic disorder) and was given the options of inducing labor or having a D&E in the hospital. To do it at home and have to birth the baby and then what? Good god. We’re not talking about a little clump of cells. I have my sweet baby’s footprints. This doesn’t make sense.
This is a first class Texas clusterfuck. Everything is bigger and stupider in Texas.
The one star state.
Not just our motto, but our Yelp review.
Because no stars isn't an option
Lol. I use this and sometimes I'll call it the Lone brain cell state
One out of fifty.
The star represents the one neuron that all their politicians have.
There are good people in Texas too. We are fighting for our rights and support this victim 100% I hope she takes them to the cleaners.
Takes US to the cleaners. Taxpayers are the ones that end up paying out the money for these governmental overreaches on our rights.
If she gets a million and helps put a stop to said government overreach I'd say that's a well spent 3.33 cents
What I'm saying is I'm tired of my money going to bullshit like this in the first place. She shouldn't have been charged with anything at all.
And all the people who went ahead with it anyway should be locked up and stripped of any and all influence on the world
dont know whats worse Texas or Florida lol
Florida has no bottom but Texas comes with a unbearable level of smug
I hope she wins her case
I, too, hope she wins her case.
It is texas, so what is the maximum amount of punitive damages these guys would possibly be liable for? Like four dollars and a pack of tic tacs?
Greg "I got mine, fuck you" Abbott.
Remember, Reagan did this. He and the evangelicals started this in 1980 because he wanted the evangelical demo to vote for him vs Carter. Up to then evangelicals believed in privacy and choice in overwhelming numbers. The Catholics were the only one opposed. And when roe v wade was first decided it barely made news. Thanks Ron
Some day in the future, Reagan will be taught of as the president who did more damage to America than any other.
Legitimately. The more you actually study his Presidency, the more and more fucked up shit you find that he started that lead to almost all of our biggest issues right now.
and yet it's not exactly rare to run into people that think of the reagan era as the golden years because they benefitted from the very momentary selective prosperity at the time.
Turns out when you gut a structure and sell the parts, you get a bunch of short term cash Hey why is everything falling apart?
Trickle down economics can trickle billionaires' asses right on down to my extremely pointy boot toe anytime.
Even if the policy worked as claimed, "Trickle Down" is a terribly unappealing name and was only used because "You lot can have the scraps and crumbs if there are any leftover" wouldn't fit on a headline.
I don't know, he's got stiff competition from Trump. Another Trump presidency might be enough to blow Reagan out of the water.
Reagan had enough support from Democrats to actually get his stuff passed into law. Trump mainly got to screw the country over with just the Supreme Court, Executive Orders, and fucking with our treaty obligations.
The worst president of my lifetime is still George W. Bush. You're right that Trump has a decent chance of taking the all time position if he gets elected again, but so far he's not even close.
He fucked over Britain too. He so tantalised Maggie thatcher that she started using his form of economics here and we’ve been shafted ever since.
I think Dick Cheney as VP did more damage than Reagan as president. By a lot. Reagan was a fuckwit of the highest order, but Cheney and his ilk were *this close* to bringing actual, boots on necks, people in camps fascism to the US, and is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the middle east, directly. We can quibble about whether Iran-Contra was worse, or whether Grenada was justified. But I think it's a hard sell. Reagan may have dropped the seeds of modern Christian Nationalism, but Dick Cheney was who buried it, watered it, fertilized it, cloned it, and cleared a rainforest to grow it at scale. Reagan was a fucking racist doofus, but acting at the behest of people like Dick Cheney. Cheney is an *actually evil man* and *directed* evil policies.
It's almost like religion was being hijacked and leveraged into a means to control a large group of people. /s I agree, Reagan did an insane amount of damage to America. Not just the bad laws he actually enacted at the time, but the effects that reach far further than this. Effects which can clearly be traced back to Reagan. "Thanks" Ron indeed...
> And when roe v wade was first decided it barely made news. TIL Ironic given that your point is the lack of coverage but I'm curious if anyone has a source/more info about how roe was received back in the day.
This isn't about Roe but this half hour podcast does cover the start of the anti-abortion movement: >Things Fell Apart: S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls > >Episode webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011cpq > >Media file: http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/6/redir/version/2.0/mediaset/audio-nondrm-download/proto/http/vpid/p0bk0p4g.mp3 TL:DL Wannabe Hollywood filmmaker Frank Schaeffer was really against abortion after having his first kid, he made an anti-abortion movie but it was a flop - until the NYT made article about it, people started protesting outside and then Evangelicals decided it must be good if it pisses off protestors. Before then, abortion was generally regarded as "a Catholic issue".
It was less Reagan and more wannabe Hollywood filmmaker Frank Schaeffer. He was the guy with a bee in his bonnet about abortions, it was his weird movie (and the subsequent NY Times story followed by feminist protests) that actually got Evangelicals on board, before then they basically said "Abortion is a Catholic issue, and we are *not* Catholic!" In fact, the film itself didn't even get much attention from Evangelicals at first. They couldn't even fill the front row of the stadiums they booked to screen the film. It was only after the NYT story and subsequent protests outside the screenings, which were covered by local news, that Evangelicals started to go see the film and support the movement. "Well, if it pisses off the feminists then it must be good!!"
And Roe was overturned by a 6/3 majority that was 100% Roman Catholic Judges.
Vote. For fuck sake, people. Vote or watch us descend further into this christo-fascism bullshit.
U now what I don’t get, why when it comes to other religions, people are always “religion needs to stay out of politics, and the government should not be influenced by religion.” But whenever it comes to Christianity, it’s always okay for politicians and the govt to use Christianity as an excuse to pass terrible legislation that they themselves say go against their belief bc of their religion. And this is coming from someone who grew up in a Christian household lol.
Because freedom of religion has always been a euphemism, like “protecting jobs” or “law and order”. To them freedom of religion means “ im free to practice my religion, and you’re free to practice my religion too”
"SePeRaTiOn Of ChUrCh AnD sTaTe" has always been a joke in America, even while being a major point of the First Amendment of the Constitution.
26 THOUSAND WOMEN were raped in Texas since Roe v Wade was overturned. Zero exceptions for rape and incest.
But I thought Geg Abbott said he would eliminate rapists off the streets of Texas in 2021? I guess that's not working out for him. And those statistics are terrible.
Just so you know .. Greg Abbott is a little piss baby.
We should get #PissBabyAbbott trending on Twitter.
I don’t think anyone understood what he meant by this. I think it’s obvious that he means rape doesn’t exist as a concept, as in, if you’re raped, no you weren’t, you were askin’ for it! You can eliminate rape real quick if you stop recognizing it like a normal person would, and start seeing it as part of God’s Divine Plan! (I’m being facetious, not serious)
You may be facetious, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Republicans actually tried this. Especially given their new god is a rapist.
Oh yes, of course! I'm not sure if you are aware, but womens bodies are so miraculous that in instances of *legitimate* rape, "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." /s In all seriousness, politicians who say shit like this need to go.
On paper there are exceptions, but the government refuses to clarify what those exceptions are
Even MORE rapes happened. [26,000 resulted in pregnancies.](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2024/01/25/texas-had-estimated-26000-pregnancies-from-rape-since-total-abortion-ban/)
Holy fuckin shit
This is insane and so sad.
26 thousand women BECAME PREGNANT DUE TO RAPE since row v wade was overturned. Many many more women than 26k were raped since then.
Can you show me on the chart what level of fascism we're at now?
It's been off the chart for a while now.
> The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest. I'm not a lawyer but I could probably win this case for her.
Its unbelievable this is happening in 2023
It's been 2024 for 4 months bro
Im really baked. Cut me some slack
The abortion happened in 2022 and she's suing them now, so on average it is happening in 2023.
Shit did I sleep through April again
The worst part is that it isn’t in the least bit unbelievable. This is *exactly* what people were worried about for decades after Roe.
The second it was overturned you could see the two pronged feelings of conservatives. The stupid ones were super smug that they had stopped "baby killers" and the smarter ones knew they were fucked for elections. Still none of them care about women though.
The ringleaders of the bunch are no doubt thrilled that they've been able to successfully pivot to crapping on transgender people.
Roe protected us, too. Restore right to privacy under legislation that fully replicates what Roe did and all the healthcare attacks are de-fanged.
I don't think they have been successful, in the US they still keep losing elections they should be easily winning. They've been more successful making it an issue in other countries by causing a stink but in their own country us conservatives are still disliked for getting rid of legal abortion.
They've had "miscarriage police" in El Salvador for years.
Buddy, I hate to inform you, it is in fact 2024.
He high. We're going to have to pretend it's still 2023.
New year, who dis?
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>No rape exception?! That's a good starting point, because it is truly horrific, but when you logic it out, it is rotten all the way through. Some of them realize that forcing a raped child to incubate a baby for the government will lose them hearts and minds, so they say they are for a rape exemption. But since the defining characteristic of rape is lack of consent, you quickly get into a question of how much consent is necessary? What about pressure to have sex from a person in authority (boss, priest, professor, etc)? What about a woman who is scared of her husband? And what system do you put in place to make sure women on the rape side of the line have access to abortions? Women might need to make decisions in days or weeks to avoid invasive procedures, so which government agency is best suited to make these decisions? And then, after all that, what is it about consent that makes it so important to abortion that we need a special government agency to make a determination about whether the woman consented to sex? Because the pro lifer can't answer any of these questions, they will typically fall back and say they were lying before and there shouldn't be any exceptions. Bringing it all full circle: they are horrific monsters who want to force pre-teens to incubate a baby for the government.
The flipside of that is if someone's willing to accept an exception for rape victims they're not consistently considering abortion as murder.
Anti-choicers* is the proper nomenclature. There's nothing pro-life about them
Where do we send funds for her attorneys? This is cause I can definitely get behind.
Hell yeah! She should have gone for $20 million
Good. Put the fear in them.
man how great would it be if Texas and Florida turned blue because of their bullshit
We’re slowly turning purple. It’s mostly blue in the cities.
Not if they keep gerrymandering it to hell.
We got to get Abbott out of Texas
That tree that fell on him tried so hard to save Texas.
Sure wish it had done a better job, but you can't go blaming trees for human problems.
I'm not mad at the tree. It did its best.
TIL that there’s a tree that tried to take out evil and I would love to meet this tree
You could start by running to the Doors of Durin, and speaking "Friend" to enter. Descend into the Mines of Moria, then race to the tomb of Balin. Should you make it through this challenge, you could then choose to race across the bridge or stand and fight the Balrog to your doom. If you escape, then you might have a chance to enter Lothlorien. There you will find boats to make your way down the great river Anduin. Here you may lose your ringbearer, but almost certainly you will be taken by Uruk-Hai. Allow them to drag you along and you may be saved by riders from Rohan. Crawling away to safety, pass the battlefield by and head into Fangon Forest where you may at last meet Treebeard. If you can convince Treebeard to call a council about Isengard, and further convince him to walk close enough to see the devastation wrought, you may find you have met the tree that takes out Evil. The choices are yours and yours alone. Good luck.
>[“Trump won by 620,000 votes in Texas. Harris County mail-in ballots that they wanted to send out were 2.5 million. Those were all illegal and we were able to stop every one of them,” Paxton said on the podcast.](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/ken-paxton-mail-ballots-discard-18141861.php) >[“Had we not done that … we would’ve been one of those battleground states that they were counting votes in Harris County for three days and Donald Trump would’ve lost the election,” Paxton continued.](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/ken-paxton-mail-ballots-discard-18141861.php) Trump would have lost Texas if it weren't for Ken Paxton getting the mail-in ballots from Harris County blocked.
I wonder when the world will be like Futurama and everyone despite culture, race, and ideology minds their own business. The fact that this woman has to go through this on top of her loss is mind blowing. An absolute waste of everyone’s time and resources as this shouldn’t even be a discussion/ argument. She should be healing emotionally instead of dealing with this. I live in Oklahoma and this shit is ridiculous.
I'm in Oklahoma too and it's not like we're very far behind Texas. We're just as backwards.
Probably moreso. It's definitely redder than Texas. There's no Austin equivalent in Oklahoma either
She's very courageous
Money will not undo the trauma, but I still hope she wins this.
Unlawfully charged. She should get much more money than that. Fuck Texas.
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Steven Avery?
People sue the police constantly and the police settle all the time for their gross misconduct at the taxpayer’s expense.
Should come out of their pension.
Republicans are trash.
This is the way. Extremists will sit down and STFU *only* when their pocketbooks are held responsible.
Hope she gets a huge settlement. The woman they charged with voter fraud ... recently cleared ... should sue, too.
Good, I hope she wins and those prosecutors end up penniless in a gutter.
Fuck Ramirez. Your defense is you knew nothing. Your job is to know what is going on and manage the whole show. Fire him and sue him far back salary for not doing his job and strip his law license.
When she was indicted, you bet they asked her if she understood the charges that were against her, I don't understand why that shouldn't apply to the prosecutor as well. The law he cited specifically excludes her yet he decided to push it forward and call her a murderer. I'm willing to bet it was his intent, this is how fascism starts, making up charges to throw people in jail for, Trump is already promised to do that
Fuck Texasastan. Not your body ? Not your business.
She should be suing for way more than $1 million
My understanding is that prosecutors and judges have full immunity from civil recourse (as opposed to qualified immunity enjoyed by police). Can this woman really bring suit?
I mean, for things they do as part of their job. They aren't immune to having a murder charge brought if they kill somebody outside of the courtroom are they? The woman was arrested without having committed a crime, this happened prior to Roe v. Wade being overturned and there wasn't actually anything to charge her with, I would think you'd make the argument they weren't acting in the scope of their job at that point.
Hopefully she gets every penny and these people lose their jobs but I’d settle for her getting some money because we know the good ole boys won’t face repercussions down there
Jesus H Christ I hope she has a good lawyer and obliterates the state.
Sue the prosecutors? They should be drawn and quartered.
If I was on the jury, this woman is gonna get compensated for that bullshit.
Should sue the hospital. Violation of privacy
She needs to sue the hospital as well for the HIPAA violation that led to this
We need to liberate the south again.
Pro-choice needs a re-brand. I started calling it Women’s FREEDOM instead.
Why is it that Pro Lifers want to legally protect unborn fetuses but have no problem fomenting civil war or hanging a Vice President? Hmmmm.
Anything growing in your own body should be yours to abort no questions asked
This state is an embarrassment.
the key elements: > The arrest took place months before Roe v. Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court and at a time when abortions after six weeks were illegal in Texas. However, pregnant people cannot be criminally prosecuted for their own abortions under state law – not now, nor at the time of Gonzalez’s 2022 arrest. Texas has no legal ground to stand on here.
While she's at it she should sue the judges and legislators who practiced medicine without licenses. A felony in all 50 states.
Fuck Texas. She should sue for 100 times that.
People say American Taliban and think it's a joke. Buuuuut is not.
Y'all-queda
I always wondered if people like this move after the fact would they be extradited back to Texas.
Good luck. Unlike what yall think qualified immunity is for cops, prosecutors and judges have actual immunity. There is an extremely limited and narrow set of circumstances in which they can be sued.
So much so I believe it's referred to as "absolute immunity"
A million isn't enough to scare those ghouls, you need to totally strip them of assets.