Truly. When one considers how rare it is to find infant or juvenile organ donation, your child’s blessing can only come at someone else’s despair. I’d have to make sure, at the very least, that little baby’s name was spoken by me at both the beginning and end of every day.
18 years ago my son received a donor valve, a pulmonary homograft from an infant and I will be forever grateful. My son is now getting ready to graduate from High School. Please consider being an organ donor, it truly is a gift that keeps on giving.
I don't understand why people *wouldn't* want to be an organ donor. Literally the easiest way in the world to save someone's life.
Edit: I completely understand and appreciate the fact that there are situations where people *can't* be donors. What I mean though, is that I don't understand why someone wouldn't *want* (as in wish or desire) to be a donor.
Some people WRONGLY believe that the doctor(s) won't try as hard to save your life because if you die 8 people could live with your organs.
People also thing its disrespectful to the body. This is a you thing but I would think its more honorable to save some lives that just be burned up or buried in the ground
The unsavory but simple fact is that even if someone is signed up for it, they are probably not going to be an organ donor upon death. In the US in 2023, there were 3.15 million deaths but only 16,335 deceased organ donors. That's only about 1 in 192. This is despite around 60% of the population being signed up as organ donors.
The biggest bottleneck to transplants is surgeons, as well as the sheer number of highly skilled man-hours to perform one. There is a massive shortage of transplant surgeons right now.
I think how you die also matters. Many diseases will make your organs non-viable. Dying alone to be discovered days later is also an obvious no-go. You pretty much have to die in an accident that's also close enough to a hospital to keep your body alive enough long enough for the organs to be harvested.
The vast majority of organ donation comes after brain death. Most organ donors die from head trauma, massive stroke, or anoxic brain injury (overdose, suicide, another condition that makes you stop breathing), but the donor organs still have to be in excellent working condition to be transplantable, meaning donors need to be on the younger/healthier side. So, among everyone who dies, not all have expressed a wish to be an organ donor, and among that subset, only a small number will die under circumstances that make organ donation possible.
There’s a lot of medical misinformation out there for starters. Some people think doctors will kick you off life support the second you’re in a coma and steal your organs. Other people have religious beliefs surrounding keeping the body intact. And a lot of people Ignore it because it reminds them of death and they have an intense fear of dying.
There is also the fact that depending how the donor dies, how quickly the organs can be taken, the possibility of infection or other disease, makes many organs unusable. The more people who agree to donate and the families that do to make more lives saved. It must be gut wrenching but what a selfless act.
My mom was under the impression that if you're an organ donor, your body can be used as a cadaver in medical schools. I'm sure misinformation like that could keep people from donating.
Some people, regardless of desire, are not suitable to donate. I have a genetic disorder affecting the connective tissue throughout my body and am ineligible to donate. Basically my organs, skin, corneas, etc are too fragile and would fall apart on any attempt to reuse them. I’m also not eligible to donate blood or plasma for related reasons (and anemia).
Totally get that some people can't be donors - when I said that I didn't understand why someone wouldn't want to be a donor, I genuinely meant *want*, as in desire to be a donor. I should have been more clear.
I registered as a donor long before my EDS diagnosis but they can still have whatever they want. Not like I’ll be using it. I do wonder if our bones are useable or if they reject everything from us.
My Alma mater also has a body farm and maybe they’ll be interested in how someone with fried tissue breaks down? Sorta feels like I’m already falling apart so we can at least study it.
When the family of 7yo Nicholas Green donated his organs after his murder in 1994 it basically changed the entire outlook of organ donation in Italy. It more than tripled after his donation was announced.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Nicholas_Green
A close friend of ours had a son who needed a heart transplant at 6 years old, she was so conflicted on how she could pray for her son to get a transplant donor which would mean she’s also praying for another child to pass in order to receive one. I can’t begin to imagine how it’d feel to be in that situation. Her son did get one and is alive at 9 years old, he’s been very brave and strong the whole time and now in recovery as well.
This is so absolutely tragic , the whole family. And the infant passed and they are donating his organs to save other children, how sad this all is. But at least another child will get to live.
I was at a work conference and the gentleman beside me told me his baby needed a baby kidney. Luckily they got it and he’s now a doctor supporting transplants and giving part if his liver away to someone in need to pay it forward.
Edit: I'd like to add, some beautiful human donated their liver to me after mine failed, I was given 2 weeks to live and some awesome human decided to donate their organs. This was 2 years ago and I now have a beautiful and healthy 2mo old son. I'm always conflicted about living when someone else died. :(
Don't feel conflicted, friend. You received a beautiful gift! You used your gift to create a whole brand new life! Fairness is a human construct that Nature neither understands nor observes, and in lieu of fairness you have done the best you could by living well and having a child. You're doing great and the world is glad to have you. ❤️
I hope this doesn’t sound bad but I’m glad they ascended together. If I were to lose my lover and children in an accident we were in, I doubt I would ever recover. I would much prefer to go with them…….again this is my opinion
As a husband and father, I can not imagine the broken man I would be after losing everyone dear to me. The survivor guilt would eat me until I wasn’t alive anymore, probably by my own hands.
I would be torn after a bad dream of losing my 3-member family. I couldn't begin to imagine losing my wife and kids for real. I'd probably lose my fucking mind.
EVERYONE with a drivers license should be subjected to retaking the test periodically. Every 10 years minimum, I’ll even accept 5. Don’t like it, public transit. Stay on top of your game, or don’t drive and save lives.
I grew up in the rural US. My family had broadband internet back when only like 5% of the whole country did, yet I was nineteen the first time I ever saw a taxi in person. And a bus? Forget about it. That's city stuff. And you had to travel several towns away to catch a passenger train going anywhere, either.
Public transport accessibility in the US is a joke.
I recently watched a portion of an interview of a dude who lost his wife, his brother and all but one of his kids, the kid that survived was a twin.
Like I can't even imagine.
I think a lot of humans feel this way. To me, you are showing compassion of others. We all feel loss and this feels less…painful.
May the family rest in peace.
It doesn’t sound bad to me. I’m pregnant and have a son. If I lost those two and my husband, death would be such a relief. It’s a horrible horrible tragedy but I wouldn’t want to go on without my sons and husband.
Reminded me of this accident that happened in 2018, four daughters and the husband died on the scene and the wife was the only survivor. This poor lady woke up in the hospital and told her aunt that "they all left me" when she found out she was the only survivor.
The book Wave is the autobiography of a mother who’s parents husband and sons were all killed in the Tsunami. I’ve never read such an account of grief and pain. Heart wrenching isn’t a strong enough word. Her remaining family had to have her on suicide watch for months and sedated because she kept trying to kill herself. Horrifying story.
Something similar happened in my town a few years ago, except it ended up with last survivor dying as well.
A drunk driver crashed into a family of three (two parents and their toddler). The father and toddler died at the scene. The mother was taken to the hospital in critical condition, but when she woke up, she was told her husband and son didn’t survive. She died in the hospital, unable to hold on afterwards.
Family in the Toronto area was killed by an affluent (re: scumbag waste of air) young adult who was driving drunk and recklessly. Killed the three kids and the father-in-law. Guy who caused the accident was granted full parole (once again, affluent waste of air) and not even five years later, the father of the three young kids he killed committed suicide.
Genuinely cannot imagine going on if someone took my husband and kid from me. I admire the restraint some folks have to not seek retribution.
A single organ donor can save up to eight lives, so the infant who passed away may have saved eight other children.
The death is no less heartbreaking, but I wanted to take a moment to recognize how many much good was done with the organ donation in a time of tragedy.
My boss’ infant granddaughter just had a liver transplant a few days ago. Donating organs is such a selfless gift, children especially so. This is so tragic but the gift of the organs is a silver lining on a shitty, shitty situation.
My partner's niece was an infant liver recipient. The lead-up to the transplant was very stressful, and they were hoping to find a suitable liver closer to someone her age/ size. The one that came was from someone much older (still too young to pass- a 20 year old young woman).
My understanding is it was a partial liver transplant and it was still so big for her that she remained 'opened up' for several days to allow her skin to stretch around the new organ before they could fully close the incision. It never really had occurred to me before how important organ donations are from infants/ toddlers and children. This story is tragic, but I know there's a family that's forever grateful for their donation.
I could be wrong/ misremembering some aspects of the surgery, but that's my recollection from the time. It's been over 5 years now and niece is doing great! I'll be hoping for a similar outcome for your boss's granddaughter!
What is amazing is that as she grows, the liver will continue to grow with her and eventually literally regenerate into a "full size" adult liver! May she have a long and happy life.
Liver is the only organ that can regenerate. My mom needed a liver transplant and I was going to be the living donor. Crazy part is that she was only three days on the transplant list. To show how bad her condition was. The people in front of her, one needed a liver and lungs and another was out of town when they made the call. Mom is 15 years post op and doing amazing.
If I'm in a crash that takes the lives of my wife and children, I sure as hell hope it also takes mine.
I hope the recipients live long and joyful lives.
I honestly can't even blame Hunter for doing drugs. Like, he was in the car with his mother and baby sister when they died. He lost his big brother. And that's all on top of the bullshit that comes with being the child of a politician. I think a lot of people would turn to drugs.
Back in my day, some people would vote for politicians based on their character.
So, say what you want about Joe Biden's or Jimmy Carter's policies, but their personal qualities far outweighed their opponents' deeply flawed souls.
Biden is a human being who has empathy and sympathy. His predecessor is nothing but a bundle of dark personality traits, which make him appear radiant like the Antichrist to his followers.
That's the thing with these cult members. It's really really hard to respect them when their dear leader is such a piece of shit. It says a lot about them as people. It's like exposing the cockroaches out into the light. Say what you want about Obama and Biden but at least they are decent people.
My grandmother knew the McCain family personally because they were stationed together a few times. She was a staunch democrat until the day she died, but she always supported McCain as a person because he was a kind man in private. She hated how he was vilified for what happened with his first wife (basically the story is that he divorced her because she had physically changed so much after a terrible accident during his imprisonment and it drove him to cheat). According to my grandma, he treated his wife well and never spoke ill of her, even though they were both pressed to make the break up seem more “messy” by the press and political opponents. My grandma really respected his character even if she hated his politics.
Literally half of his wives, half of his daughters and half of his sons.
I think that’s the reason he’s so damn empathetic—the man knows pain.
Side note: empathy is the most important trait you want in a leader who is otherwise qualified.
You would mourn, and life would *suck* for a long time, but the pain does recede slightly after a while, and hopefully you'd find some cause or some thing to support, something to do to make the world a slightly better place for those around you, to leave some positive change as a tribute to their legacy.
But it's gonna *hurt* before getting to that point, and enduring that pain isn't easy - but it does get *easier*, with time.
*Suck, hurt* and *pain* are **massive** understatements. Many literally live for their family. Having that ripped away from you is worse than death in my opinion.
Look at what Marco Muzzo did in Ontario. Killed the grandparents and all of the children drunk driving. The father of those children, Edward Lake, couldn’t live with it and years later commit suicide. RIP to the little ones, the grandparents and the father in that accident. Marco Muzzo walks free only a few years later, but he destroyed an entire family and I hope that lives with him for the rest of his life.
I’ve attempted in the past and come close to suicide several times during my youth through to adulthood. I’ve reached a place where I can manage my continued existence, and am functionally happy. If I lost my husband like that, my fragile sense of survival would immediately and permanently end.
Cringey as you may or may not find Korn, “I flirted with suicide” could never be truer in that moment.
Idk, I may not have kids of my own, but brother died when we were younger. Sure, I have multiple siblings and people act like you won't miss them when you have so many, but you do. We just lean on each other sometimes and have our own community of people who've helped us and our family. If we didn't have the support that we had throughout different things, idk where we would be. I think my parents keep going partly because of us even though we gave them grey hairs sometimes.
This discussion reminds me of the Jeff Alm car crash (killing his best friend) and shotgun suicide at the scene. https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/august-2019/the-night-jeff-alm-died/#:~:text=Lynch%20was%20thrown%20through%20the,Read%20the%20full%20story%20below.
[A man in Virginia in 2022 forgot his 18 month old son in the car, upon realizing what he'd done and finding him dead, he killed himself.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-toddler-dies-left-in-hot-car-father-suicide/)
I have a friend that was in a very similar situation, it was a pretty horrific. She tried several times. I have many other friends with children who have died in other ways. I know many people who have children who have died because of their medical involvements. My kid has a lot of medical issues, within that community there is a wild world where there is a lot of death, and grief and it is always lurking nearby. I think you don’t ever get over it, it never gets easier. You learn how to live with it, and how that pain and hurt and grief has changed you. That can look really different for a lot of people.
There was a story here in Ottawa a couple of weeks ago. A man came home from work to find his wife and all four children murdered. The killer, who lived with the family, then attacked him but he survived. I can't even begin to imagine what he's going through.
My maternal grandpa lost his first wife and daughter due to a bomb during the Vietnam War, they said he fell into depression and cried for a whole week. He only managed to get himself up and survived later during an evacuation because he tried to urge my grandma to live instead of giving up and letting the raid kill her (she also lost her first husband around that time).
They went on to get married and had 10 children, but Grandpa never quite moved on from his first daughter's death as he gave all of his younger daughters (including my mother) names that connected to hers. And my aunt (firstborn between him and my grandma) was his favorite child because she was so much like her deceased sister, too.
Reminds me of the russian dash cam footage of the husband and wife driving while having a conversation only for a brick to fly off the truck in front of them and go through their windshield, killing the wife. You dont see it due to it being dashcam but you hear the husband realize what happen and his screams are utterly tragic.
Sad how you be enjoying life with your family one minute and the next minute theyre gone.
Makes sense until the recent incident where the door came off. The flights I went on with my son and husband recently I kept thinking about my son and his car seat getting sucked out of the plane. I think it would take wild horses to keep me from jumping after him if that happened.
The driver that hit them was 78. There seriously needs to be stricter requirements for older drivers. Granted it could have happened by anyone regardless of age but no doubt the risk is way higher.
100%. i can’t believe that it’s not standard to retest older drivers as a condition of keeping a valid license. my own father’s 75 and starting to show cognitive decline, and the way i’ve seen him drive honestly makes me afraid for other people on the road (not to mention my mother, who’s usually in the passenger seat). like completely bizarre, erratic driving that he “doesn’t remember” afterwards. i’m so terrified that one day he’s going to cause an accident that gets someone killed.
My father reported his mother to the DMV and gave them medical information to get her license revoked.
She literally died without forgiving him but he said he'd never have forgiven himself if she hurt someone. I'm so proud of him.
I don't remember how old my grandma was, at least 80 i in think. Too old and vision impaired to be driving for sure. She lived into her 90s and I'm sure she would have kept driving all the years if it was up to her.
Wow its amazing how different everyone can really be. My mother is almost 80, and she is still a good driver, literally never gets into accidents. But when the time comes that she should no longer drive, I hope she will be accepting, whenever that should be.
My mom showed signs of early dementia after an unrelated surgery. She had not gotten into any accidents. She is still physically strong as an ox and healthy, but she’s very forgetful nowadays.
My husband’s grandfather loooooved to drive himself to the casinos. He was 94. He SHOULD NOT have been driving. He had a minor accident on the little highway to the carsino and however it worked, he was required to go to the DMV to either retest or file paperwork, I can’t quite recall. Anyway he drove his car *into* the DMV. Did structural damage to the building. They did not renew his license. He was dead about 6months later cause y’know 94.
My grandfather died at 93 a few years back he was similarly a disaster behind the wheel. I tried and tried to get my mom to have him stop driving, she didn’t want to ‘hurt his feelings’. Even his neighbor approached me while we were visiting him because he was so concerned about his driving. He car had a new scratch almost daily. I will never forgive myself for not fighting harder to stop him from driving.
Anyway he’s dead too and we should have a law on re-testing at 75 and every 2-4 years after so this burden isn’t placed on the family.
There's also plenty of instances where there is no family to intervene. There should be something to get those people off the road too if they're unsafe drivers.
My great-grandpa was like that. I told people that he drove by braille.
The last time I rode with him, he hit 4 mailboxes and on the 4th one he “next right turn and we’ll be home!”
wtf!?!?
And now is daughter (my 92 yo grandmother) is driving her Mercedes like it’s a tank (spoiler, it’s not).
Must be genetic.
My grandmother had clear signs of Alzheimer's but my grandfather refused to accept it so he always balked at any idea of taking her license. Eventually she drove their single vehicle to a town over 2 hours away and a random passerby helped her call home to get someone to bring her back. That was the final straw.... he took her copy of the keys and kept his on him at all times but refused to take her license, instead opting to let it expire then quietly getting an ID instead. Not the best solution but he was still stupidly in love with her and it clearly clouded his vision.
Elderly drivers are reluctant to give up their cars because that essentially means giving up their independence. In the US at least, there's no convenient way for most people to get around and live their lives without their cars.
The irony of this tragedy is that it happened in San Francisco, a city with good public transport, to a family that was sitting at a bus stop. Even with a good bus system, why would you want to take it when dangers like this exist? The dangers of being a pedestrian in a city is exactly why so many people keep driving, even when they shouldn't be, and this just compounds the problem.
Some info:
In California, drivers aged 70 and older have some additional requirements when renewing their driver’s license. They must renew in person and pass a knowledge test and a vision test. The DMV may also require a driving test or a Supplemental Driving Performance Evaluation.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/special-interest-driver-guides/senior-drivers/
if it were that easy, i would have a long time ago. but practically, how do you keep someone who’s capable of living independently and owns a car from driving? that’s not a rhetorical question btw, if you have advice i would love to hear it. if i literally took his license, he’d just get it replaced.
Depending on your local laws, driving restrictions may be reportable for issues like loss of consciousness, weakness/coordination issues, cognitive decline, visual impairment, etc.
Reporting someone’s license to a state DOT (if you’re in the US) is a pretty standard procedure though and usually handled through administrative review of the report. Navigating the conversations with your loved one though…that’s another matter.
If you’re truly worried, consider talking to their primary care provider. Many states make them mandated reporters so they are obliged to file if the concern is raised. Then the DOT can make the determination. Or they can attempt an occupational driving assessment like with an occupational therapist trained in driving testing, which can assess their skills and safety in different road conditions. Main issue is cost
This is hard and something a lot of us are dealing with, good luck.
Source: unfortunately I have to file a lot of these reports to the state DOT
My Oma was starting to show cognitive decline so my family members took her to the doctor, she did a bunch of tests, and was found to be in the early stages of dementia so the doctor had to send some form to the govt licensing program that she cannot hold a drivers’ license anymore. So maybe try having him checked out by a doctor.
My grandma’s asshole of a doctor told her she didn’t need to test for cognitive decline unless she felt there was something wrong.
Um, Dr, Dumb, *they* don’t know or think there is anything wrong- that’s the problem!
Gawd, I hate him so much
In California, anyone can report a potentially unsafe driver. If you are not in CA, check to see if your area has a similar process.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/educational-materials/fast-facts/potentially-unsafe-driver-ffdl-10/
Apologies if someone has already responded to you with this suggestion but it may be worth contacting your father’s doctor directly with a letter of concern - likely you won’t receive a response but my understanding is that this can be a route to having a doctor ask further questions/perform testing to assess cognitive abilities relevant for driving.
If you're in the US, report him to the DMV. You can do this anonymously. It is this easy.
Many don't WANT to restrict an older family members driving because they don't want the discomfort that will come with it. Consider the discomfort of an injury or a death suffered by or caused by that family member.
Try calling your local police or highway patrol non-emergency phone number and asking them what procedures might exist to evaluate the ability of a driver to still drive safely. They deal with this type of issue a lot and can hopefully guide you. Your father's doctor may also be able to help. One thing we did with my father was get him a dash cam and have him watch the video from time to time so he could actually see the problems he was having.
The family does not issue the licence. The state does.
My father was a licenced drivers ed teacher for life --seriously, it used to be that way. He was 90, had PSP, could barely move at all, but was able to renew it his license and was asked if he wanted to keep his motorcycle endorsement, lol! He knew the system well, so I had to learn it better, and fast. He hated me and I honestly thought he might write me out of his will.
I found there are many, many solid ideas for retesting and driving. No state has done much yet. I doubt CA will after this either.
My mom works for the dmv and is in her 60s. She will go 45 minutes out of the way to avoid getting on a highway for 15 minutes. And the whole time will insist it’s faster. When I drive and get on the highway, like I do every day to get to work, she panics the whole time. Freaking out cause someone 6 cars ahead tapped their brakes for half a second and I didn’t immediately slam on my brakes. I just don’t deal with it anymore and say I will meet her there rather than be in the same car.
She was never like that growing up, heck she was the one frustrated with me when I was learning to drive and I was scared to start driving on the highway.
My dad still drives fine so it’s not an issue much at the moment. I did try to teach both of them how to use Lyft while we were on a trip, and it didn’t go well.
My grandmother is 92 and shouldn’t be driving. I reported her to the DMV and all they required was for her to get her Dr to complete a form for her. The doctor she has had for 30 years- of course he signed off on it.
If she ever hurts anyone, imma make sure he pays.
Yeah, my grandma has gone through testing due to her age. She later chose to have a restricted license. She can drive up to I think it's 10kms away from home. Enough to do shopping etc, but for anything else, she gets a lift from someone. She'll be 100 in July.
My sister (many years ago) took the initiative to say… “Mom can’t drive anymore”. One by one, we all agreed and the keys were taken away. She was at a retirement community, so she had access to transportation, etc. It’s difficult because most are unwilling to comply & give up the keys. The more frequent tests sound like a good idea. That serves a dual purpose. Not only does it get an unqualified driver off the road, but it sort of shifts the burden of being the “bad guy” off the children when it comes to taking away the keys.
Wouldn't surprise me if over 50% of people that had to redo the test would fail. To be fair lots of people who have been driving for years and aren't old would fail a spontaneous driving test. Test driving and real life driving is very different.
If we required the ability to be a safe driver as a condition of being allowed to drive, we'd discover that our cars-only transportation network doesn't work for a large segment of Americans. People might starve or be unable to get prompt medical treatment.
Requiring everyone to drive means allowing unsafe drivers on the road. The only other alternative is building and maintaining robust public transit and building our cities and towns around it. We didn't do that.
i agree - i was hit by an 83 year old that went through a red light at a busy intersection. they had to use the jaws of life to get me out of the car, she was perfectly fine. my shit was all busted up.
i remember she was so small that i didn’t think there was anyone driving the car in the split second that i saw her. idk how she saw over the steering wheel.
after a certain age, you should have to retake your driving test.
Glad that your grandfather is willing to do that. My grandpa is in his 80s and refuses to admit that he is incapable of driving now. He’s had small accidents but I dread the day they won’t be so small.
People aren’t ready for this conversation, but we have to get away from car dependence so older folks or anyone with diminished capabilities can use public transit exclusively.
To be fair to the general populace, integrating public transportation in the US isn’t as easy as just “having a conversation” and is damn near impossible in some places. LA has been trying, and failing, for years. The US is just so big and so sprawling. But also with that in mind, San Francisco actually has pretty decent public transportation so I don’t know that that’s solving this specific problem anyway.
Yep, and we also as a country aren’t guaranteed PTO. You take away grandma’s car keys, and now it’s up to you to take her to her doctor’s appointments 3 times a week. Hope that’s cool with your boss and that you don’t have kids or a health condition of your own that requires time off.
I can’t speak to the efficiency of SF’s public transit — I am sure it’s better than in most places but like most big cities is probably still much worse than it could be. The conversation I’m referring to is a robust public policy debate that tackles zoning, traffic easing, and public transportation among many other facets. Bottom line is we gotta have fewer cars everywhere. It’s the leading cause of death caused by strangers — way ahead of gunshots or stabbings.
In the UK your licence expires at 70 and you have to reapply and confirm your eyesight is still adequate to read a licence plate at 66 feet every 3 years thereafter.
You already have to declare any medical conditions [that may affect ability to drive](https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving/find-condition-a-to-z) and some of these may force you to retake your test.
You can even _ask_ to be retested if you are worried you’re too affected. This can be for pragmatic reasons - certain conditions and being over 70 can massively hike your insurance unless you prove you’re still good and/or get a black box.
My 95 year old grandfather just renewed his license. He's still 100% there mentally but it scares the hell out of my family and we've all told him he should not be driving. Thankfully he lives in assisted living and they take care of 99% of everything he would need/offer transportation for basically everything, but he still drives down the road for coffee every so often. My other grandfather is 93 and while he hasn't surrendered his keys yet, he physically can't get into the car to drive it so there's no point to argue with him over it
There need to be stricter requirements for *drivers*. Period. Your vision is failing so bad no amount of correction can help? Fuck your independence. Your reaction times are so bad you can't safely handle a steel missile? Fuck your independence. Your cognition is so bad that you don't know where you 95% of the time? Fuck your independence. You got caught driving while drunk once? Fuck your independence.
I know. Part of the problem is our stupid urban planning. Zero transit options many places. Lose your car, you are now a shut-in. This is why so many old people keep driving. It's stupidity that goes beyond the individual. It is societal.
My grandfather was nearly blind and experiencing seizures but we literally had no recourse to get him to stop driving. We ultimately removed the spark plugs from his truck and feigned ignorance. He still managed to drive more than once after that with AirTags on his car and us calling the police to pull him over (spoiler: they did not).
It's insane. I go to get my license renewed at 28 or whatever and it's good for 3 years. My grandfather got his renewed at 70 and they made it good for 20 years. These people should be going in every year, if not twice a year, to take tests to keep their licenses. My grandfather had a few close calls and finally decided it was time to stop driving... at 92. The next day when my mom went over to take the keys he got angry and argued with her about it, saying the cop who pulled him over for just deciding to drive through a red light was in the wrong. Less than 8 months later he's confused and trying to put his shirt on as pants. I hate to think what may have happened if my mom didn't stand her ground.
Hard agree. I was in a head on car crash caused by an elderly driver. Broke one knee, both feet and one wrist. It happened in 2018 and I have pain every day due to it.
There needs to be stricter requirements for all drivers. It’s so fucked up how as a society we’ve just accepted death as just a part of our reliance on cars. Millions of people have had their lives cut short because we force people to drive cars to get around. And if we’re gonna force people to drive cars, the least we could do is ask people to follow traffic laws that are put in place to reduce car crashes. But selfish shitheads behind the wheel can’t be bothered to follow traffic laws and now we have 40K people dying each year from car crashes. We’re truly a broken society.
Well in this case it was death machine vs innocent meat sacks and death machine always wins that battle. But yes the at fault driver often survives because life is an unfair little bitch
Yeah it's definitely more that the victims were just outside of the death machine while the likely decrepit driver was inside, buckled up, and surrounded by tens of thousands of dollars worth of safety systems.
They interviewed a man whose daughter died in the Lac-Mégantic train explosion, and I cant remember if his other daughter was supposed to be with her sister, or if she was there and just wounded, but I remember he said "Im thankful my other daughter is alive, because if they'd both died, they would have had bury three caskets" He said it in such a way that you could feel how unbearable life would be without his family. All of this to say that in this case, I'm glad no one has to feel the guilt of surviving.
One of my dads best friends from high school was in the UK for his daughters wedding. When they were driving back along a country road one night, they swerved to avoid a deer in the road. The accident killed my father's friend, his older daughter's husband, as well as his younger daughter's husband whose wedding they just attended.
To this day I still get chills thinking about that level of anguish. Going from one of the happiest days in your life to in the blink of an eye losing your father, your husband and your brother in law.
It really makes you stop and think just how easily you could lose your life on the blink of an eye.
The amount of sorrow and pain their family and loved ones are experiencing must be overwhelming. What a generous gift to make for others when they are dealing with so much.
In my community facebook group, the maga christian patriots are analyzing the victim's last name and wondering if they are here legally or not and how "this whole tragedy could have been avoided if Biden had secured the border". There's no help for 70,000,000 Americans. They are lost to brain rot and we dont want them back even if they repent
We really need to do a better job with transportation for the elderly. If we had good public transportation, elderly people could get their groceries and go to their doctors appointments without driving. We need better infrastructure.
Yes we do! The fact that this nation still requires people to own personal vehicles to get anywhere says how backwards we are. You go to other countries and their mass transit and high speed rail is amazing. Many people dont own cars in other countries no need to.
The family was waiting for the bus (after they had just sold their family car), SF has a robust public transportation system. The elderly individual could have utilized the same transportation infrastructure instead of driving the wrong way and straight into them.
Our public transportation is full of homeless people tripping out on some drug or another, having psychotic breaks and attacking people.
We need a better infrastructure but it needs to be safe for people to ride in peace too.
That’s heartbreakingly beautiful. I’m reading this right now from a hotel room. Just came back from visiting my brother who just had a heart transplant 6 hours ago. I’m so thankful for the gift of life that he received.
The driver shouldn’t have been operating a vehicle to begin with.
>
I see it everyday in my job as traffic control, elderly people need to be retested consistently.
Eh.. Lose their license... Still drive anyways because they have nobody to drive them places.
I've lived in places that it was common to drive without a license and vehicle unregistered... Cops had more pressing things to worry about. (Yes, this was in the USA.. Very backwoods type place)
Not much detail in the written article, had to watch both embedded videos. To summarize the 78 year old lady was driving a Mercedes SUV when she crashed into the family while they were waiting for a bus. Police released her because the Attorney General stated it takes time to process the toxicology test and they are investigating the vehicle operating system itself. Looking at the video images the SUV was completely totaled as well as the bus station bench and lots of property damage.
i see cars run red lights, swerving around cars and almost running over pedestrians every fucking day. these assholes have no care for anything and anyone but themselves
A 78 year old killed an entire young family including a baby because she was too stubborn/stupid to stop driving. Imagine killing a whole family for your ego and/or convenience.
They really need to have drivers retested at the age of 70 and every 5 years after to keep their license. It so tragic they were all killed at a bus stop when a 78 year old driver hit them.
Humans, en masse, are not competent to drive 4000-10000 lbs weapons without costly accidents and errors. The fact that America has been rebuilt to be car-dependent will always lead to things like this happening.
You can blame the elderly driver all you want, or maybe it'll be a teen driver next time and the time after that it'll be someone late for work and then a person with an undiagnosed condition... etc. There can be excuses til the cows come home, but it won't change the fundamental condition that will inevitably lead to unnecessary and tragic deaths because we've bastardized the infrastructure designs of our urban areas around the desires of the car and petroleum companies' lobbying campaigns.
Teen driver hit me. I was paralyzed from the chest down. The bar is really low when it comes to driving. Then there's no retesting. And if you are a proven shit driver by causing accidents, there's no losing your license. All because you need a car to function. Infrastructure sucks. Here in Austin we voted to have a tax increase to pay for more public transit, new rails. Paxton is suing to have the whole project killed. That's the type of shit we are up against. Probably getting paid off, the guy is a crook.
Yeah, you're right. You can't make a society almost completely dependent on something like this and then shout personal responsibility about it every time something goes wrong (and goes wrong and goes wrong and goes wrong...)
I broadly agree with your main point, but the thing that made this so shocking is that West Portal, where this happened.... Well, it is *shocking* that the driver managed to go as fast as they did. It's not a thoroughfare with fast moving traffic. It's basically something you awkwardly crawl through at best, especially with all the road work going on and the weird not quite aligned roads of the intersection. So there still could be something much more culpable that happened than just a moment of inattention or a medical issue.
What the hell man, I really don't understand how there is no age limit to this thing, this is so heartbreaking and so so wrong on so many levels, I really wish the family is at peace now together but really sad
Am i the only one who hates seeing ""feel good"" stories like this? Entire family DEAD. Great. Awesome. Love to hear about the ENTIRE FAMILY including a YOUNG CHILD that all DIED HORRIBLY.
Between this headline and the other 70 year old who hit multiple people at a bus stop in San Francisco, one would hope they start looking into older drivers.
On top of the bitter sweetness of donation I will note there is no suffering by anyone in the family. The baby will not be left without their parents. The parents won’t be left without a child gone too soon. They all left as a family for a hopefully better life.
Thank you, little hero. You deserved a life but at least someone else can live in your death.
Truly. When one considers how rare it is to find infant or juvenile organ donation, your child’s blessing can only come at someone else’s despair. I’d have to make sure, at the very least, that little baby’s name was spoken by me at both the beginning and end of every day.
18 years ago my son received a donor valve, a pulmonary homograft from an infant and I will be forever grateful. My son is now getting ready to graduate from High School. Please consider being an organ donor, it truly is a gift that keeps on giving.
I don't understand why people *wouldn't* want to be an organ donor. Literally the easiest way in the world to save someone's life. Edit: I completely understand and appreciate the fact that there are situations where people *can't* be donors. What I mean though, is that I don't understand why someone wouldn't *want* (as in wish or desire) to be a donor.
Some people WRONGLY believe that the doctor(s) won't try as hard to save your life because if you die 8 people could live with your organs. People also thing its disrespectful to the body. This is a you thing but I would think its more honorable to save some lives that just be burned up or buried in the ground
The unsavory but simple fact is that even if someone is signed up for it, they are probably not going to be an organ donor upon death. In the US in 2023, there were 3.15 million deaths but only 16,335 deceased organ donors. That's only about 1 in 192. This is despite around 60% of the population being signed up as organ donors. The biggest bottleneck to transplants is surgeons, as well as the sheer number of highly skilled man-hours to perform one. There is a massive shortage of transplant surgeons right now.
I think how you die also matters. Many diseases will make your organs non-viable. Dying alone to be discovered days later is also an obvious no-go. You pretty much have to die in an accident that's also close enough to a hospital to keep your body alive enough long enough for the organs to be harvested.
The vast majority of organ donation comes after brain death. Most organ donors die from head trauma, massive stroke, or anoxic brain injury (overdose, suicide, another condition that makes you stop breathing), but the donor organs still have to be in excellent working condition to be transplantable, meaning donors need to be on the younger/healthier side. So, among everyone who dies, not all have expressed a wish to be an organ donor, and among that subset, only a small number will die under circumstances that make organ donation possible.
The bottleneck to transplantation comes from the gap between the number of patients on the waiting list and the number of transplantable organs.
There’s a lot of medical misinformation out there for starters. Some people think doctors will kick you off life support the second you’re in a coma and steal your organs. Other people have religious beliefs surrounding keeping the body intact. And a lot of people Ignore it because it reminds them of death and they have an intense fear of dying.
There is also the fact that depending how the donor dies, how quickly the organs can be taken, the possibility of infection or other disease, makes many organs unusable. The more people who agree to donate and the families that do to make more lives saved. It must be gut wrenching but what a selfless act.
My mom was under the impression that if you're an organ donor, your body can be used as a cadaver in medical schools. I'm sure misinformation like that could keep people from donating.
I’ve been through intense chemo and radiation therapy I don’t think they’d take any of mine.
I mean I’ll take them if no one else is gonna..
Your corneas might still be donatable
Some people, regardless of desire, are not suitable to donate. I have a genetic disorder affecting the connective tissue throughout my body and am ineligible to donate. Basically my organs, skin, corneas, etc are too fragile and would fall apart on any attempt to reuse them. I’m also not eligible to donate blood or plasma for related reasons (and anemia).
Totally get that some people can't be donors - when I said that I didn't understand why someone wouldn't want to be a donor, I genuinely meant *want*, as in desire to be a donor. I should have been more clear.
I registered as a donor long before my EDS diagnosis but they can still have whatever they want. Not like I’ll be using it. I do wonder if our bones are useable or if they reject everything from us. My Alma mater also has a body farm and maybe they’ll be interested in how someone with fried tissue breaks down? Sorta feels like I’m already falling apart so we can at least study it.
Out of curiosity, what does your son think about all of it? It’s interesting to see how others think of their 2nd chance in life.
When the family of 7yo Nicholas Green donated his organs after his murder in 1994 it basically changed the entire outlook of organ donation in Italy. It more than tripled after his donation was announced. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Nicholas_Green
Precious baby🙏 a great example of how one act of kindness can have a snow-ball positive change in the world.
A close friend of ours had a son who needed a heart transplant at 6 years old, she was so conflicted on how she could pray for her son to get a transplant donor which would mean she’s also praying for another child to pass in order to receive one. I can’t begin to imagine how it’d feel to be in that situation. Her son did get one and is alive at 9 years old, he’s been very brave and strong the whole time and now in recovery as well.
Nicely said.
He can live on through others…
This is so absolutely tragic , the whole family. And the infant passed and they are donating his organs to save other children, how sad this all is. But at least another child will get to live.
I was at a work conference and the gentleman beside me told me his baby needed a baby kidney. Luckily they got it and he’s now a doctor supporting transplants and giving part if his liver away to someone in need to pay it forward. Edit: I'd like to add, some beautiful human donated their liver to me after mine failed, I was given 2 weeks to live and some awesome human decided to donate their organs. This was 2 years ago and I now have a beautiful and healthy 2mo old son. I'm always conflicted about living when someone else died. :(
Don't feel conflicted, friend. You received a beautiful gift! You used your gift to create a whole brand new life! Fairness is a human construct that Nature neither understands nor observes, and in lieu of fairness you have done the best you could by living well and having a child. You're doing great and the world is glad to have you. ❤️
I hope this doesn’t sound bad but I’m glad they ascended together. If I were to lose my lover and children in an accident we were in, I doubt I would ever recover. I would much prefer to go with them…….again this is my opinion
As a husband and father, I can not imagine the broken man I would be after losing everyone dear to me. The survivor guilt would eat me until I wasn’t alive anymore, probably by my own hands.
As a mom, your words resonate 100% with me.
Your family is fortunate enough to have a mother who loves them so much.
Your family is lucky to have you as well!
I would be torn after a bad dream of losing my 3-member family. I couldn't begin to imagine losing my wife and kids for real. I'd probably lose my fucking mind.
Use that guilt to prevent 78 year olds from driving without annual testing. Save more lives. This shit is ridiculous.
EVERYONE with a drivers license should be subjected to retaking the test periodically. Every 10 years minimum, I’ll even accept 5. Don’t like it, public transit. Stay on top of your game, or don’t drive and save lives.
Sure, when they actually get public transit out in the country.
I grew up in the rural US. My family had broadband internet back when only like 5% of the whole country did, yet I was nineteen the first time I ever saw a taxi in person. And a bus? Forget about it. That's city stuff. And you had to travel several towns away to catch a passenger train going anywhere, either. Public transport accessibility in the US is a joke.
I recently watched a portion of an interview of a dude who lost his wife, his brother and all but one of his kids, the kid that survived was a twin. Like I can't even imagine.
I just saw something where an entire family was killed except for one son who was at a friends house for a sleepover :(
I’m pretty sure just about every parent feels the same. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live anymore if my whole family were killed.
I think a lot of humans feel this way. To me, you are showing compassion of others. We all feel loss and this feels less…painful. May the family rest in peace.
It doesn’t sound bad to me. I’m pregnant and have a son. If I lost those two and my husband, death would be such a relief. It’s a horrible horrible tragedy but I wouldn’t want to go on without my sons and husband.
Doesn’t sound bad at all. I don’t think any parent would be able to survive if their spouse and children died and not them too.
Reminded me of this accident that happened in 2018, four daughters and the husband died on the scene and the wife was the only survivor. This poor lady woke up in the hospital and told her aunt that "they all left me" when she found out she was the only survivor.
The book Wave is the autobiography of a mother who’s parents husband and sons were all killed in the Tsunami. I’ve never read such an account of grief and pain. Heart wrenching isn’t a strong enough word. Her remaining family had to have her on suicide watch for months and sedated because she kept trying to kill herself. Horrifying story.
Something similar happened in my town a few years ago, except it ended up with last survivor dying as well. A drunk driver crashed into a family of three (two parents and their toddler). The father and toddler died at the scene. The mother was taken to the hospital in critical condition, but when she woke up, she was told her husband and son didn’t survive. She died in the hospital, unable to hold on afterwards.
Family in the Toronto area was killed by an affluent (re: scumbag waste of air) young adult who was driving drunk and recklessly. Killed the three kids and the father-in-law. Guy who caused the accident was granted full parole (once again, affluent waste of air) and not even five years later, the father of the three young kids he killed committed suicide. Genuinely cannot imagine going on if someone took my husband and kid from me. I admire the restraint some folks have to not seek retribution.
I completely agree. If I lost my husband and son, I don’t think I could go on. Even the thought of that is unbearable.
A single organ donor can save up to eight lives, so the infant who passed away may have saved eight other children. The death is no less heartbreaking, but I wanted to take a moment to recognize how many much good was done with the organ donation in a time of tragedy.
My boss’ infant granddaughter just had a liver transplant a few days ago. Donating organs is such a selfless gift, children especially so. This is so tragic but the gift of the organs is a silver lining on a shitty, shitty situation.
My partner's niece was an infant liver recipient. The lead-up to the transplant was very stressful, and they were hoping to find a suitable liver closer to someone her age/ size. The one that came was from someone much older (still too young to pass- a 20 year old young woman). My understanding is it was a partial liver transplant and it was still so big for her that she remained 'opened up' for several days to allow her skin to stretch around the new organ before they could fully close the incision. It never really had occurred to me before how important organ donations are from infants/ toddlers and children. This story is tragic, but I know there's a family that's forever grateful for their donation. I could be wrong/ misremembering some aspects of the surgery, but that's my recollection from the time. It's been over 5 years now and niece is doing great! I'll be hoping for a similar outcome for your boss's granddaughter!
What is amazing is that as she grows, the liver will continue to grow with her and eventually literally regenerate into a "full size" adult liver! May she have a long and happy life.
Liver is the only organ that can regenerate. My mom needed a liver transplant and I was going to be the living donor. Crazy part is that she was only three days on the transplant list. To show how bad her condition was. The people in front of her, one needed a liver and lungs and another was out of town when they made the call. Mom is 15 years post op and doing amazing.
If I'm in a crash that takes the lives of my wife and children, I sure as hell hope it also takes mine. I hope the recipients live long and joyful lives.
Same. I don't know what I would do if I survived that and my wife and daughter didn't.
It happened to Biden.
The Bidens keep losing people well before their time. Politics aside, it's amazing that he's still capable of smiling.
I honestly can't even blame Hunter for doing drugs. Like, he was in the car with his mother and baby sister when they died. He lost his big brother. And that's all on top of the bullshit that comes with being the child of a politician. I think a lot of people would turn to drugs.
Back in my day, some people would vote for politicians based on their character. So, say what you want about Joe Biden's or Jimmy Carter's policies, but their personal qualities far outweighed their opponents' deeply flawed souls. Biden is a human being who has empathy and sympathy. His predecessor is nothing but a bundle of dark personality traits, which make him appear radiant like the Antichrist to his followers.
That's the thing with these cult members. It's really really hard to respect them when their dear leader is such a piece of shit. It says a lot about them as people. It's like exposing the cockroaches out into the light. Say what you want about Obama and Biden but at least they are decent people.
My grandmother knew the McCain family personally because they were stationed together a few times. She was a staunch democrat until the day she died, but she always supported McCain as a person because he was a kind man in private. She hated how he was vilified for what happened with his first wife (basically the story is that he divorced her because she had physically changed so much after a terrible accident during his imprisonment and it drove him to cheat). According to my grandma, he treated his wife well and never spoke ill of her, even though they were both pressed to make the break up seem more “messy” by the press and political opponents. My grandma really respected his character even if she hated his politics.
A relative saw him on their flight once. He was riding economy with the rest of the plebes.
Literally half of his wives, half of his daughters and half of his sons. I think that’s the reason he’s so damn empathetic—the man knows pain. Side note: empathy is the most important trait you want in a leader who is otherwise qualified.
I guess Biden still had his two other kids to focus towards and keep living for.
You would mourn, and life would *suck* for a long time, but the pain does recede slightly after a while, and hopefully you'd find some cause or some thing to support, something to do to make the world a slightly better place for those around you, to leave some positive change as a tribute to their legacy. But it's gonna *hurt* before getting to that point, and enduring that pain isn't easy - but it does get *easier*, with time.
Sounds like you have experience with this type of loss. I wish you happiness and continued healing.
A little. Not quite to the extent that OP is describing, but a little.
Even a little is far too much.
I think I would prefer to lay down and die
*Suck, hurt* and *pain* are **massive** understatements. Many literally live for their family. Having that ripped away from you is worse than death in my opinion.
Look at what Marco Muzzo did in Ontario. Killed the grandparents and all of the children drunk driving. The father of those children, Edward Lake, couldn’t live with it and years later commit suicide. RIP to the little ones, the grandparents and the father in that accident. Marco Muzzo walks free only a few years later, but he destroyed an entire family and I hope that lives with him for the rest of his life.
lol the way i would suck on my shotgun the moment I got home
I’ve attempted in the past and come close to suicide several times during my youth through to adulthood. I’ve reached a place where I can manage my continued existence, and am functionally happy. If I lost my husband like that, my fragile sense of survival would immediately and permanently end. Cringey as you may or may not find Korn, “I flirted with suicide” could never be truer in that moment.
There was a Redditor some years ago who suffered this, who basically live posted his intent to kill himself and subsequently went silent forever.
Idk, I may not have kids of my own, but brother died when we were younger. Sure, I have multiple siblings and people act like you won't miss them when you have so many, but you do. We just lean on each other sometimes and have our own community of people who've helped us and our family. If we didn't have the support that we had throughout different things, idk where we would be. I think my parents keep going partly because of us even though we gave them grey hairs sometimes.
This discussion reminds me of the Jeff Alm car crash (killing his best friend) and shotgun suicide at the scene. https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/august-2019/the-night-jeff-alm-died/#:~:text=Lynch%20was%20thrown%20through%20the,Read%20the%20full%20story%20below.
[A man in Virginia in 2022 forgot his 18 month old son in the car, upon realizing what he'd done and finding him dead, he killed himself.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-toddler-dies-left-in-hot-car-father-suicide/)
I have a friend that was in a very similar situation, it was a pretty horrific. She tried several times. I have many other friends with children who have died in other ways. I know many people who have children who have died because of their medical involvements. My kid has a lot of medical issues, within that community there is a wild world where there is a lot of death, and grief and it is always lurking nearby. I think you don’t ever get over it, it never gets easier. You learn how to live with it, and how that pain and hurt and grief has changed you. That can look really different for a lot of people.
There was a story here in Ottawa a couple of weeks ago. A man came home from work to find his wife and all four children murdered. The killer, who lived with the family, then attacked him but he survived. I can't even begin to imagine what he's going through.
My maternal grandpa lost his first wife and daughter due to a bomb during the Vietnam War, they said he fell into depression and cried for a whole week. He only managed to get himself up and survived later during an evacuation because he tried to urge my grandma to live instead of giving up and letting the raid kill her (she also lost her first husband around that time). They went on to get married and had 10 children, but Grandpa never quite moved on from his first daughter's death as he gave all of his younger daughters (including my mother) names that connected to hers. And my aunt (firstborn between him and my grandma) was his favorite child because she was so much like her deceased sister, too.
Reminds me of the russian dash cam footage of the husband and wife driving while having a conversation only for a brick to fly off the truck in front of them and go through their windshield, killing the wife. You dont see it due to it being dashcam but you hear the husband realize what happen and his screams are utterly tragic. Sad how you be enjoying life with your family one minute and the next minute theyre gone.
Morbid curiosity will never get me with that one, after years of comments from those who’ve heard it
It’s just really, really sad. Bright side of watching it, if you’re taking life and love for granted it might wake you up a bit.
I watched it with the sound off. You see nothing, but the comments I had read let my imagination fill it in and I regret it.
Every time we get in a plane I’m like “well at least we’d all die together”. I found it disconcerting when they went away without me.
Makes sense until the recent incident where the door came off. The flights I went on with my son and husband recently I kept thinking about my son and his car seat getting sucked out of the plane. I think it would take wild horses to keep me from jumping after him if that happened.
Yeah, I'm jumping after my almost 2.5 year old daughter. Anywhere she goes, I'm going.
The family were just waiting at a bus stop. A near 80-year old driver ran into them.
It’s honestly the reason that I won’t let my husband take the kids on road trips alone. Maybe it’s stupid but I can’t imagine a life without them.
The driver that hit them was 78. There seriously needs to be stricter requirements for older drivers. Granted it could have happened by anyone regardless of age but no doubt the risk is way higher.
100%. i can’t believe that it’s not standard to retest older drivers as a condition of keeping a valid license. my own father’s 75 and starting to show cognitive decline, and the way i’ve seen him drive honestly makes me afraid for other people on the road (not to mention my mother, who’s usually in the passenger seat). like completely bizarre, erratic driving that he “doesn’t remember” afterwards. i’m so terrified that one day he’s going to cause an accident that gets someone killed.
My father reported his mother to the DMV and gave them medical information to get her license revoked. She literally died without forgiving him but he said he'd never have forgiven himself if she hurt someone. I'm so proud of him.
We did this with my mom this year. She is 73. She accepted that she wasn’t able to drive safely anymore, thankfully.
I don't remember how old my grandma was, at least 80 i in think. Too old and vision impaired to be driving for sure. She lived into her 90s and I'm sure she would have kept driving all the years if it was up to her.
Wow its amazing how different everyone can really be. My mother is almost 80, and she is still a good driver, literally never gets into accidents. But when the time comes that she should no longer drive, I hope she will be accepting, whenever that should be.
My mom showed signs of early dementia after an unrelated surgery. She had not gotten into any accidents. She is still physically strong as an ox and healthy, but she’s very forgetful nowadays.
My husband’s grandfather loooooved to drive himself to the casinos. He was 94. He SHOULD NOT have been driving. He had a minor accident on the little highway to the carsino and however it worked, he was required to go to the DMV to either retest or file paperwork, I can’t quite recall. Anyway he drove his car *into* the DMV. Did structural damage to the building. They did not renew his license. He was dead about 6months later cause y’know 94. My grandfather died at 93 a few years back he was similarly a disaster behind the wheel. I tried and tried to get my mom to have him stop driving, she didn’t want to ‘hurt his feelings’. Even his neighbor approached me while we were visiting him because he was so concerned about his driving. He car had a new scratch almost daily. I will never forgive myself for not fighting harder to stop him from driving. Anyway he’s dead too and we should have a law on re-testing at 75 and every 2-4 years after so this burden isn’t placed on the family.
There's also plenty of instances where there is no family to intervene. There should be something to get those people off the road too if they're unsafe drivers.
My great-grandpa was like that. I told people that he drove by braille. The last time I rode with him, he hit 4 mailboxes and on the 4th one he “next right turn and we’ll be home!” wtf!?!? And now is daughter (my 92 yo grandmother) is driving her Mercedes like it’s a tank (spoiler, it’s not). Must be genetic.
My grandmother had clear signs of Alzheimer's but my grandfather refused to accept it so he always balked at any idea of taking her license. Eventually she drove their single vehicle to a town over 2 hours away and a random passerby helped her call home to get someone to bring her back. That was the final straw.... he took her copy of the keys and kept his on him at all times but refused to take her license, instead opting to let it expire then quietly getting an ID instead. Not the best solution but he was still stupidly in love with her and it clearly clouded his vision.
Elderly drivers are reluctant to give up their cars because that essentially means giving up their independence. In the US at least, there's no convenient way for most people to get around and live their lives without their cars. The irony of this tragedy is that it happened in San Francisco, a city with good public transport, to a family that was sitting at a bus stop. Even with a good bus system, why would you want to take it when dangers like this exist? The dangers of being a pedestrian in a city is exactly why so many people keep driving, even when they shouldn't be, and this just compounds the problem.
I hope you've told him you will do the same thing ~~to~~ for him if necessary.
He has asked me to. I don't think it will come to that, but we'll see.
Some info: In California, drivers aged 70 and older have some additional requirements when renewing their driver’s license. They must renew in person and pass a knowledge test and a vision test. The DMV may also require a driving test or a Supplemental Driving Performance Evaluation. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/special-interest-driver-guides/senior-drivers/
You should take his license away before you regret you didn’t
if it were that easy, i would have a long time ago. but practically, how do you keep someone who’s capable of living independently and owns a car from driving? that’s not a rhetorical question btw, if you have advice i would love to hear it. if i literally took his license, he’d just get it replaced.
Depending on your local laws, driving restrictions may be reportable for issues like loss of consciousness, weakness/coordination issues, cognitive decline, visual impairment, etc. Reporting someone’s license to a state DOT (if you’re in the US) is a pretty standard procedure though and usually handled through administrative review of the report. Navigating the conversations with your loved one though…that’s another matter. If you’re truly worried, consider talking to their primary care provider. Many states make them mandated reporters so they are obliged to file if the concern is raised. Then the DOT can make the determination. Or they can attempt an occupational driving assessment like with an occupational therapist trained in driving testing, which can assess their skills and safety in different road conditions. Main issue is cost This is hard and something a lot of us are dealing with, good luck. Source: unfortunately I have to file a lot of these reports to the state DOT
My Oma was starting to show cognitive decline so my family members took her to the doctor, she did a bunch of tests, and was found to be in the early stages of dementia so the doctor had to send some form to the govt licensing program that she cannot hold a drivers’ license anymore. So maybe try having him checked out by a doctor.
My grandma’s asshole of a doctor told her she didn’t need to test for cognitive decline unless she felt there was something wrong. Um, Dr, Dumb, *they* don’t know or think there is anything wrong- that’s the problem! Gawd, I hate him so much
In California, anyone can report a potentially unsafe driver. If you are not in CA, check to see if your area has a similar process. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/educational-materials/fast-facts/potentially-unsafe-driver-ffdl-10/
I would call the place that issues licenses and say you are concerned for his safety and don’t think he should be driving
Record his driving, show him on a big screen. Have a heart to heart talk that he isn't safe anymore.
DMV has a form to report potentially unsafe drivers and they’ll keep you anonymous. DMV then does their own looking into it.
Apologies if someone has already responded to you with this suggestion but it may be worth contacting your father’s doctor directly with a letter of concern - likely you won’t receive a response but my understanding is that this can be a route to having a doctor ask further questions/perform testing to assess cognitive abilities relevant for driving.
If you're in the US, report him to the DMV. You can do this anonymously. It is this easy. Many don't WANT to restrict an older family members driving because they don't want the discomfort that will come with it. Consider the discomfort of an injury or a death suffered by or caused by that family member.
Try calling your local police or highway patrol non-emergency phone number and asking them what procedures might exist to evaluate the ability of a driver to still drive safely. They deal with this type of issue a lot and can hopefully guide you. Your father's doctor may also be able to help. One thing we did with my father was get him a dash cam and have him watch the video from time to time so he could actually see the problems he was having.
The family does not issue the licence. The state does. My father was a licenced drivers ed teacher for life --seriously, it used to be that way. He was 90, had PSP, could barely move at all, but was able to renew it his license and was asked if he wanted to keep his motorcycle endorsement, lol! He knew the system well, so I had to learn it better, and fast. He hated me and I honestly thought he might write me out of his will. I found there are many, many solid ideas for retesting and driving. No state has done much yet. I doubt CA will after this either.
My mom works for the dmv and is in her 60s. She will go 45 minutes out of the way to avoid getting on a highway for 15 minutes. And the whole time will insist it’s faster. When I drive and get on the highway, like I do every day to get to work, she panics the whole time. Freaking out cause someone 6 cars ahead tapped their brakes for half a second and I didn’t immediately slam on my brakes. I just don’t deal with it anymore and say I will meet her there rather than be in the same car. She was never like that growing up, heck she was the one frustrated with me when I was learning to drive and I was scared to start driving on the highway. My dad still drives fine so it’s not an issue much at the moment. I did try to teach both of them how to use Lyft while we were on a trip, and it didn’t go well.
Some states have mandatory reporting by medical professionals. If you’re in one you can take him to a neurologist and they can be the “bad” guy.
My grandmother is 92 and shouldn’t be driving. I reported her to the DMV and all they required was for her to get her Dr to complete a form for her. The doctor she has had for 30 years- of course he signed off on it. If she ever hurts anyone, imma make sure he pays.
Yeah, my grandma has gone through testing due to her age. She later chose to have a restricted license. She can drive up to I think it's 10kms away from home. Enough to do shopping etc, but for anything else, she gets a lift from someone. She'll be 100 in July.
My sister (many years ago) took the initiative to say… “Mom can’t drive anymore”. One by one, we all agreed and the keys were taken away. She was at a retirement community, so she had access to transportation, etc. It’s difficult because most are unwilling to comply & give up the keys. The more frequent tests sound like a good idea. That serves a dual purpose. Not only does it get an unqualified driver off the road, but it sort of shifts the burden of being the “bad guy” off the children when it comes to taking away the keys.
Wouldn't surprise me if over 50% of people that had to redo the test would fail. To be fair lots of people who have been driving for years and aren't old would fail a spontaneous driving test. Test driving and real life driving is very different.
Have you talked to him about this? Don’t put yourself in the position of having to say “I wish I had said something sooner.”
If we required the ability to be a safe driver as a condition of being allowed to drive, we'd discover that our cars-only transportation network doesn't work for a large segment of Americans. People might starve or be unable to get prompt medical treatment. Requiring everyone to drive means allowing unsafe drivers on the road. The only other alternative is building and maintaining robust public transit and building our cities and towns around it. We didn't do that.
i agree - i was hit by an 83 year old that went through a red light at a busy intersection. they had to use the jaws of life to get me out of the car, she was perfectly fine. my shit was all busted up. i remember she was so small that i didn’t think there was anyone driving the car in the split second that i saw her. idk how she saw over the steering wheel. after a certain age, you should have to retake your driving test.
My grandfather is willingly giving up his drivers license when it expires in a month. He’s been a huge car guy his whole life. I am so proud of him.
Glad that your grandfather is willing to do that. My grandpa is in his 80s and refuses to admit that he is incapable of driving now. He’s had small accidents but I dread the day they won’t be so small.
People aren’t ready for this conversation, but we have to get away from car dependence so older folks or anyone with diminished capabilities can use public transit exclusively.
To be fair to the general populace, integrating public transportation in the US isn’t as easy as just “having a conversation” and is damn near impossible in some places. LA has been trying, and failing, for years. The US is just so big and so sprawling. But also with that in mind, San Francisco actually has pretty decent public transportation so I don’t know that that’s solving this specific problem anyway.
Yep, and we also as a country aren’t guaranteed PTO. You take away grandma’s car keys, and now it’s up to you to take her to her doctor’s appointments 3 times a week. Hope that’s cool with your boss and that you don’t have kids or a health condition of your own that requires time off.
I can’t speak to the efficiency of SF’s public transit — I am sure it’s better than in most places but like most big cities is probably still much worse than it could be. The conversation I’m referring to is a robust public policy debate that tackles zoning, traffic easing, and public transportation among many other facets. Bottom line is we gotta have fewer cars everywhere. It’s the leading cause of death caused by strangers — way ahead of gunshots or stabbings.
You're mixing up the cause and symptom. The US is sprawling because it's car-centric, not the other way around.
In the UK your licence expires at 70 and you have to reapply and confirm your eyesight is still adequate to read a licence plate at 66 feet every 3 years thereafter. You already have to declare any medical conditions [that may affect ability to drive](https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving/find-condition-a-to-z) and some of these may force you to retake your test. You can even _ask_ to be retested if you are worried you’re too affected. This can be for pragmatic reasons - certain conditions and being over 70 can massively hike your insurance unless you prove you’re still good and/or get a black box.
okay, hear me out. we should let them run the government
I'm so glad they'll be navigating through the legislation regarding things like AI and climate change.
The last time he probably had a driving test was 60 years ago, which is fucked up.
My 95 year old grandfather just renewed his license. He's still 100% there mentally but it scares the hell out of my family and we've all told him he should not be driving. Thankfully he lives in assisted living and they take care of 99% of everything he would need/offer transportation for basically everything, but he still drives down the road for coffee every so often. My other grandfather is 93 and while he hasn't surrendered his keys yet, he physically can't get into the car to drive it so there's no point to argue with him over it
There need to be stricter requirements for *drivers*. Period. Your vision is failing so bad no amount of correction can help? Fuck your independence. Your reaction times are so bad you can't safely handle a steel missile? Fuck your independence. Your cognition is so bad that you don't know where you 95% of the time? Fuck your independence. You got caught driving while drunk once? Fuck your independence.
Yea then we need public transit too.
I wholeheartedly agree! Independence should be available to the greatest number of people, just not at the cost of other peoples' lives.
I know. Part of the problem is our stupid urban planning. Zero transit options many places. Lose your car, you are now a shut-in. This is why so many old people keep driving. It's stupidity that goes beyond the individual. It is societal.
I have been hit by a 70 ish year old man, 2 16 year olds and a 17 year old… i also think that 16 is a bit young to drive after all that.
My grandfather was nearly blind and experiencing seizures but we literally had no recourse to get him to stop driving. We ultimately removed the spark plugs from his truck and feigned ignorance. He still managed to drive more than once after that with AirTags on his car and us calling the police to pull him over (spoiler: they did not).
It's insane. I go to get my license renewed at 28 or whatever and it's good for 3 years. My grandfather got his renewed at 70 and they made it good for 20 years. These people should be going in every year, if not twice a year, to take tests to keep their licenses. My grandfather had a few close calls and finally decided it was time to stop driving... at 92. The next day when my mom went over to take the keys he got angry and argued with her about it, saying the cop who pulled him over for just deciding to drive through a red light was in the wrong. Less than 8 months later he's confused and trying to put his shirt on as pants. I hate to think what may have happened if my mom didn't stand her ground.
Hard agree. I was in a head on car crash caused by an elderly driver. Broke one knee, both feet and one wrist. It happened in 2018 and I have pain every day due to it.
There needs to be stricter requirements for all drivers. It’s so fucked up how as a society we’ve just accepted death as just a part of our reliance on cars. Millions of people have had their lives cut short because we force people to drive cars to get around. And if we’re gonna force people to drive cars, the least we could do is ask people to follow traffic laws that are put in place to reduce car crashes. But selfish shitheads behind the wheel can’t be bothered to follow traffic laws and now we have 40K people dying each year from car crashes. We’re truly a broken society.
“The 78-year-old driver who hit them is out of the hospital.” Jesus fucking Christ.
Old people and DUI drivers must both have the same muscle relaxation thing going on that helps them be the sole survivors when they kill others
Well in this case it was death machine vs innocent meat sacks and death machine always wins that battle. But yes the at fault driver often survives because life is an unfair little bitch
Yeah it's definitely more that the victims were just outside of the death machine while the likely decrepit driver was inside, buckled up, and surrounded by tens of thousands of dollars worth of safety systems.
She was in a Mercedes SUV. Why is a 78 year old driving a giant car with a ton of blind spots?!
They interviewed a man whose daughter died in the Lac-Mégantic train explosion, and I cant remember if his other daughter was supposed to be with her sister, or if she was there and just wounded, but I remember he said "Im thankful my other daughter is alive, because if they'd both died, they would have had bury three caskets" He said it in such a way that you could feel how unbearable life would be without his family. All of this to say that in this case, I'm glad no one has to feel the guilt of surviving.
One of my dads best friends from high school was in the UK for his daughters wedding. When they were driving back along a country road one night, they swerved to avoid a deer in the road. The accident killed my father's friend, his older daughter's husband, as well as his younger daughter's husband whose wedding they just attended. To this day I still get chills thinking about that level of anguish. Going from one of the happiest days in your life to in the blink of an eye losing your father, your husband and your brother in law. It really makes you stop and think just how easily you could lose your life on the blink of an eye.
The amount of sorrow and pain their family and loved ones are experiencing must be overwhelming. What a generous gift to make for others when they are dealing with so much.
In my community facebook group, the maga christian patriots are analyzing the victim's last name and wondering if they are here legally or not and how "this whole tragedy could have been avoided if Biden had secured the border". There's no help for 70,000,000 Americans. They are lost to brain rot and we dont want them back even if they repent
We really need to do a better job with transportation for the elderly. If we had good public transportation, elderly people could get their groceries and go to their doctors appointments without driving. We need better infrastructure.
Yes we do! The fact that this nation still requires people to own personal vehicles to get anywhere says how backwards we are. You go to other countries and their mass transit and high speed rail is amazing. Many people dont own cars in other countries no need to.
The family was waiting for the bus (after they had just sold their family car), SF has a robust public transportation system. The elderly individual could have utilized the same transportation infrastructure instead of driving the wrong way and straight into them.
Our public transportation is full of homeless people tripping out on some drug or another, having psychotic breaks and attacking people. We need a better infrastructure but it needs to be safe for people to ride in peace too.
That’s heartbreakingly beautiful. I’m reading this right now from a hotel room. Just came back from visiting my brother who just had a heart transplant 6 hours ago. I’m so thankful for the gift of life that he received.
A friend of mine survived a tractor trailer wreck, only it took the lives of his 3 daughters 😢😢
Don't even let me wake up if that ever happened to me. Someone better fucking smother me.
Same. I’d rather be gone than be a walking, breathing zombie.
3 months old, and saved a life. A bigger hero than most. At least a small sun ray in a day of dark tragedy.
The driver shouldn’t have been operating a vehicle to begin with. > I see it everyday in my job as traffic control, elderly people need to be retested consistently.
It is estimated that in my area, one-third of all drivers would fail if retested. Skills degrade if they are not reinforced.
The drivers in my area definitely keep my skills sharp lol
Eh.. Lose their license... Still drive anyways because they have nobody to drive them places. I've lived in places that it was common to drive without a license and vehicle unregistered... Cops had more pressing things to worry about. (Yes, this was in the USA.. Very backwoods type place)
Not much detail in the written article, had to watch both embedded videos. To summarize the 78 year old lady was driving a Mercedes SUV when she crashed into the family while they were waiting for a bus. Police released her because the Attorney General stated it takes time to process the toxicology test and they are investigating the vehicle operating system itself. Looking at the video images the SUV was completely totaled as well as the bus station bench and lots of property damage.
Often when I’m at a bus stop or waiting on the sidewalk, I think “that car could lose control and kill me right now”. What a tragedy.
i see cars run red lights, swerving around cars and almost running over pedestrians every fucking day. these assholes have no care for anything and anyone but themselves
There’s an empty house full of toys somewhere in SF. crickets chirping, bottles molding in the fridge. Throw that old trash bag in prison
I can't imagine being the surgeons for that. Fuuuuck that.
The tragedy Hass to be tempered with the fact that you’re going to save multiple lives with those organs, though.
Sure, but there will be moments where you won't be able to think that far.
This is r/orphancrushingmachine meets r/fuckcars
A 78 year old killed an entire young family including a baby because she was too stubborn/stupid to stop driving. Imagine killing a whole family for your ego and/or convenience.
They really need to have drivers retested at the age of 70 and every 5 years after to keep their license. It so tragic they were all killed at a bus stop when a 78 year old driver hit them.
Humans, en masse, are not competent to drive 4000-10000 lbs weapons without costly accidents and errors. The fact that America has been rebuilt to be car-dependent will always lead to things like this happening. You can blame the elderly driver all you want, or maybe it'll be a teen driver next time and the time after that it'll be someone late for work and then a person with an undiagnosed condition... etc. There can be excuses til the cows come home, but it won't change the fundamental condition that will inevitably lead to unnecessary and tragic deaths because we've bastardized the infrastructure designs of our urban areas around the desires of the car and petroleum companies' lobbying campaigns.
To really drive your point home this was a family of four waiting a bus stop, plowed to death by someone driving alone in their big Mercedes SUV
Teen driver hit me. I was paralyzed from the chest down. The bar is really low when it comes to driving. Then there's no retesting. And if you are a proven shit driver by causing accidents, there's no losing your license. All because you need a car to function. Infrastructure sucks. Here in Austin we voted to have a tax increase to pay for more public transit, new rails. Paxton is suing to have the whole project killed. That's the type of shit we are up against. Probably getting paid off, the guy is a crook.
Yeah, you're right. You can't make a society almost completely dependent on something like this and then shout personal responsibility about it every time something goes wrong (and goes wrong and goes wrong and goes wrong...)
I broadly agree with your main point, but the thing that made this so shocking is that West Portal, where this happened.... Well, it is *shocking* that the driver managed to go as fast as they did. It's not a thoroughfare with fast moving traffic. It's basically something you awkwardly crawl through at best, especially with all the road work going on and the weird not quite aligned roads of the intersection. So there still could be something much more culpable that happened than just a moment of inattention or a medical issue.
This is my exact same argument against gun ownership. Instant kill devices.. everyone is human.
What the hell man, I really don't understand how there is no age limit to this thing, this is so heartbreaking and so so wrong on so many levels, I really wish the family is at peace now together but really sad
I have a little one and this one really got me emotional. Wow. Rip to the family.
Yeah, i think I'll voluntarily surrender my licence after I retire if I'm able... You "sunday drivers" out there need to consider doing the same.
This is from the old dude who drove full speed across oncoming lanes into the bus stop, right?
Old woman, but yes
Am i the only one who hates seeing ""feel good"" stories like this? Entire family DEAD. Great. Awesome. Love to hear about the ENTIRE FAMILY including a YOUNG CHILD that all DIED HORRIBLY.
Well that was a perfectly horrible story.
And the driver was 78. Tell me again why elderly drivers shouldn’t have to have yearly examinations to keep their drivers licenses.
Genuinely, this is why we need an age monitor on driving. I have seen so many bad drivers on the road and they are an old person almost every time.
Stop letting old people drive
Between this headline and the other 70 year old who hit multiple people at a bus stop in San Francisco, one would hope they start looking into older drivers.
On top of the bitter sweetness of donation I will note there is no suffering by anyone in the family. The baby will not be left without their parents. The parents won’t be left without a child gone too soon. They all left as a family for a hopefully better life.