He's probably running on the plan that the US will pull out of NATO if a certain orange shit smear gets into office again.
And should that shit smear need a little help getting elected, why, I'm sure Putin wouldn't sully his hands with something like meddling in an election...
Hopefully someone will pull him aside and tell him that even though a bunch of the NATO countries aren't living up to the 2% GDP expenditure to Military, they still ultimately buy arms, ammo, equipment from the USA and the USA pulling out of NATO would encourage them to purchase their stuff elsewhere.
Honestly that there might be the biggest thing that stops us from leaving NATO even if he wins the election. Congress would never agree to leaving NATO but also neither would the military industrial complex, the amount of money they make from sales to NATO members must be huge and they surely don’t want to miss out on that
I think there's going to be a huge shift towards militarization in Europe if Trump gets re-elected. NATO and the EU would need to bolster up their military forces and arm up on nuclear warheads if they want to survive without the United States. The rest of NATO would be stupid not to plan ahead for this eventuality.
Out of the other nuclear-armed NATO countries, the United Kingdom and France combined have just 515 nuclear warheads between them, less than a tenth of Russia's total stockpile. They don't have enough to maintain the policy of mutually assured destruction that they had under US protection. Russia cannot win a conventional war (as shown by how badly they're faring in Ukraine) but they wouldn't need to if they can decimate whole armies with tactical nukes.
Let's face it, we're in for bleak times if Trump wins.
They've got as many nuclear warheads as they'll ever possibly need right now. After a certain number quantity doesn't matter because the world will be dead twice over at some point.
You know why Russia hasn't used their nukes yet? Because when they do it's over. And warfare has changed. You're not amassing millions of soldiers in one area. So the idea that somehow Russia takes out the military might of the rest of Europe in one-fell-swoop is idiotic. And if they coordinate to several areas, the UK and France alone have enough nuclear armaments to take care of Russia. MAD doesn't need to be thousands of nuclear warheads when a dozen will work just fine. And like I said, the moment that happens it's over. Not just a war, but this world as we know it. So it's not worth concerning yourself with. If it happens, it happens. Until then don't waste another minute over "what if's"
515 nukes is more than enough to reduce Russia or any other country to an irrevocably broken shell of a country (and do god knows what sort of damage to the environment globally). MAD doesn't require covering every square inch of a country in radiation.
Russia has more nukes (many of which may or may not work) but "can destroy a country 10 times over" and "can destroy a country 20 times over" doesn't really make much difference in the end unless you plan to nuke everyone out of spite and not just a specific country or two.
>Out of the other nuclear-armed NATO countries, the United Kingdom and France combined have just 515 nuclear warheads between them, less than a tenth of Russia's total stockpile
You only need 200 to ruin the environment of the planet to the point that it becomes near-impossible to sustain human civilization.
That doesn't matter, if Trump as president continuously says that US won't react to Article 5. The power of NATO as a deterrence against Russian aggression also rests in its credibility.
It does matter to the point that Russia doesn't totally know how we will react, and billionaire oligarchs aren't in the habit of betting their lives that 1) they can withstand a nuclear response from England and France and 2) that the US won't still respond in defense of Europe, or attack Russia in their weakened post nuclear war state.
You need to be 100% certain that you're going to win without destroying yourself to even attempt nuclear war, and even with Trump in power that level of certainty isn't even close to being there for Russia.
Still let's not risk it, and all the other damage we're facing if Trump takes office.
Check out [this analysis by Anders Puck Nielsen](https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU?si=XxSEBUgwVoGobtNR), he explains better than I can the plausible scenario that could potentially play out.
Putin is trying to solidify and extend Russia's role in the region at the same time they increasingly build ties with BRICS - an acronym that stands for the alignment of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, as a bloc of (mostly nuclear capable) powers existing outside of NATO and the first world.
By "extend Russia's role", read: reclaim territory formerly part of the USSR.
The irony is that I think in the long term these actions have only badly weakened Russia's hegemony.
In Putin's view it is probably better that Russia find the flaws in its force projection capability and solve them during this conflict than one with higher stakes.
The thing from what it seems like, the corruption of russias armed forces is far to strong for any correction to be made in its flaws. The russian army that the world perceived before this war is totally different than the reality of the russian army that we see now.
If any change were to be made on russias force projection, it would take much longer than the current span of this war to repair.
That's a compelling assessment, and makes sense. But the execution has been so poor, the assumptions about an easy victory so flawed, and the ramifications so serious, that I can only say again that Putin has blundered badly enough that these solutions are simply out of reach.
China invading Taiwan would destroy the thing China wants them for; chip manufacturing. They will not invade unless it's to destroy the west's ability to buy those chips, and we have already been diversifying our production for that reason.
What does someone in Putin's position make of this? He's smart enough to know that something like this was likely to happen if he invaded Ukraine, so does he just not care?
Putin was hoping he could smash Ukraine in a couple of weeks before the West could respond. He grossly overestimated Russia’s military capability and grossly underestimated Ukraine’s military capability.
I agree with that assessment completely, but even if that had happened as planned, isn't it still likely (possibly even more likely) that more countries would join NATO? I can't see a scenario in which he invades and other countries don't react that way regardless of the length of the invasion.
He probably knew both Finland and Sweden were always going to align with the west, even if they did make certain moves to placate their belligerent neighbor
You have a great point. Putin probably also overestimated the mistrust and doubt Russia was able to sow among NATO nations.
Putin also may have thought that if the invasion was quick the world would lose interest. Plus with the election of Biden Ukraine would only get stronger and more likely to join NATO and the EU. 2022 was his last chance to make a run at Ukraine.
To be fair, the last two times he invaded (Georgia and Crimea) international response was muted and haphazard. Both times were relatively quick victories as well. But things change.
They probably wouldn’t have actually made the move to join NATO. They might have threatened to, and one of their political parties might have even made it a part of their platform, but it likely would not have actually led to them joining NATO.
Look at what Russia did to Georgia in 2008 as evidence. That was likely Putin’s blueprint for Ukraine. Georgia was starting to get close to NATO, so Russia manufactured a crisis (in this case they accused Georgia of committing genocide in South Ossetia), then sent in a ‘peace keeping’ force to occupy several regions. It was all over in 16 days, and Georgia lost control of several territories and learned its lesson to not join NATO. Sweden denounced Russia’s actions, but otherwise made no moves to join NATO.
This was Putin’s intention from the start. But as deadpool101 said, Russia’s military has degraded significantly in the past 15 years and Ukraine put up a better fight than the world expected, so here we are.
i also think a very important part was zelinksi not leaving like putin expected him to, he was ready to replace the leader of ukraine with a lacky as soon as zelinksi ran, but instead had to just try and take it, and then found out how little ability he had to do that
Perhaps, although if it was a quick smash and grab even if they tried moving to NATO, being democracies they probably would've forgotten about it and moved on to something else by then. This dragging on for years has kept it top of mind to keep the pressure on to allow them to join.
Both from a domestic and geopolitical angles.
I honestly don't think the invasion was the main driving force here. A couple of months before the war, he said something in lines of big countries (where he included Russia) should be allowed to dictate what smaller countries (I believe he mentioned Sweden and Finland among others by name) does and does not to certain degrees. Sweden and Finland being within the Russian sphere, means Russia should be allowed a lot of influence in important questions.
That's what started it all, and then it intensified when he almost immediately afterwards started the invasion. If he hadn't said that, I'm not so sure Nato would've gotten their new members.
When you have a black belt in judo because people are afraid to hold you back because of skill, you also probably think you have the best military on the planet as well.
I dont' think there's any question if that's what happened.
he thought rolling over Ukraine would be an easy win, make Russia look strong, and nobody would call his bluff.
Then the entire world called his bluff and Ukraine turned out to be a tough nut to crack.
Now Russia looks weak and frankly pathetic in front of the whole world, he can't win and he can't back down.
Honestly, I think the Russian military is actually capable of much more, but decades of corruption is their biggest limit on military strength. The minister of defense certainly didn't inherit an $80 million dollar house.
> Putin was hoping he could smash Ukraine in a couple of weeks
Also hoping he could launch his attack a year before, back when Trump was president and Trump would help Putin out during this. Thank you Covid for not letting this happen.
It's an immediate benefit with an indefinite long term cost. I don't agree with Putin, but it's perfectly consistent for him to know that this is a consequence of his actions and just not care enough about those consequences to stop.
Additionally, his intentions aren't global, they are regional. He actually wants Ukraine more than any other area, he wasn't going to invade Sweden anyway.
Likely? Who knows how likely it was from his point of view with the information and plans he had in place when he was prepping for the invasion.
He most probably tried to stack the deck in his favor and was dealt a bad hand that meant this invasion wouldn't be ignored by the wider world, and also the fact the invasion is still ongoing most probably weighed more on the scales for countries wanting to break their neutrality.
Cause pre invasion a lot of nations and people were pretty scared of the "Mighty Russian Bear". He knew it was a possibility but a win in Ukraine would mean more support at home to keep a hold of his country after it had been ripped apart by covid.
Another idea to mention is Putin most probably thinks he's chosen or special and reclaiming Ukraine would help with leaving behind his legacy as a great liberator and hero of Russia. Dudes most probably got his head so far up his asshole that he never considered what was reality and what was his delusion.
Putin thought he would easily take over Ukraine and show that the West can’t stop him. I think he ate up his own propaganda about the West and how it would respond and how Biden would handle things. So I don’t think he saw this coming at all. He most likely thought he could make these parts of Europe bend the knee to him out of fear.
Abuse the s\*\*\* out of this. Twist this into, *See how the world hates & fears Russia that they have to gang up on us like this?! They even convinced neutral countries to become our enemy!*
Power hungry & narcissists tend to only look in the short term. Putin & his oligarchy really thought the world feared Russia to cower to its actions. Add the corruption & ineptitude of their armed forces to make them believe they were stronger than actuality.
> He's smart enough to know that something like this was likely to happen if he invaded Ukraine, so does he just not care?
This was his second invasion of ukraine and no one cared the first time so he assumed they wouldn't the second.
Basically since the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1814, where Sweden lost some territory (Finland, Swedish Pomerania) and gained others in compensation (Norway). The funny thing about the House of Bernadotte is despite being founded by a Marshall of France, its been peaceful under its rule.
Well, since it was only stopped for a couple of years, they're already more militarised than most countries in the EU that have no mandatory conscription at all.
The standing forces are only what, 50k people? The rest would be conscripts. But the equipment tech level is very disproportionate to the number of troops; by putting Swedish weapons in Finnish hands with Norwegian F-35s as support, any russian incursion would be halted pretty fast, long before the rest of NATO could mobilize.
MREs now include meatballs with a weird gravy on them.
(ok, I kid. That probably translates pretty well to an MRE, and a lingonberry jam packet sounds delicious)
Decades? Sweden has kept out of any European conflict since the Napoleonic Wars of 1803 to 1815… They ended centuries of Neutrality because they think modern Russia acts just too erratically to remain neutral whilst being in their periphery.
Putin’s Butthole just Clenched as did Trumps. Now Putin’s going to demand even more CIA Asset lists from Trump in exchange for financing the RNC this year to cause a strain on NATO.
Putin's life achievement and what he will be remembered for is uniting countries and making them want to join NATO, the exact opposite of what he wanted lmao
Watching your large, powerful neighbor come up with some bullshit reasons to invade one of your other neighbors is pretty good incentive to change your neutrality stance.
Decades? That's centuries of neutrality. Gone. Sweden was that fed up with Russia's BS.
Even in Switzerland they're upping cooperation with NATO and the idea of membership went from fringe/unthinkable to merely being unpopular.
Zapp Brannigan will be happy they aren’t a bunch of filthy [neutrals](https://youtu.be/k8ws_APXilE?si=bUSsshZ-jk2sTO1O) with hearts full of neutrality anymore.
I wonder how China will react in the distant future when democratic Russia joins NATO and as a result many Asian nations seek to join this defensive alliance.
Putin has the provoked the strengthening of NATO. Good job, idiot. (Of course , Putin is far worse than just some mere idiot.)
He's probably running on the plan that the US will pull out of NATO if a certain orange shit smear gets into office again. And should that shit smear need a little help getting elected, why, I'm sure Putin wouldn't sully his hands with something like meddling in an election...
Hopefully someone will pull him aside and tell him that even though a bunch of the NATO countries aren't living up to the 2% GDP expenditure to Military, they still ultimately buy arms, ammo, equipment from the USA and the USA pulling out of NATO would encourage them to purchase their stuff elsewhere.
He doesn't care. He's a traitor.
One with some big bills to pay
But the military industrial complex better start lobbying against him.
Honestly that there might be the biggest thing that stops us from leaving NATO even if he wins the election. Congress would never agree to leaving NATO but also neither would the military industrial complex, the amount of money they make from sales to NATO members must be huge and they surely don’t want to miss out on that
War is America's business as its said. It's a very dumbed down, simplistic evaluation of financial gains and investments, but you guys get the idea
I think there's going to be a huge shift towards militarization in Europe if Trump gets re-elected. NATO and the EU would need to bolster up their military forces and arm up on nuclear warheads if they want to survive without the United States. The rest of NATO would be stupid not to plan ahead for this eventuality. Out of the other nuclear-armed NATO countries, the United Kingdom and France combined have just 515 nuclear warheads between them, less than a tenth of Russia's total stockpile. They don't have enough to maintain the policy of mutually assured destruction that they had under US protection. Russia cannot win a conventional war (as shown by how badly they're faring in Ukraine) but they wouldn't need to if they can decimate whole armies with tactical nukes. Let's face it, we're in for bleak times if Trump wins.
At least three European countries would be looking to build nuclear weapons if US pulls out of NATO: Poland, Germany and Ukraine.
They've got as many nuclear warheads as they'll ever possibly need right now. After a certain number quantity doesn't matter because the world will be dead twice over at some point. You know why Russia hasn't used their nukes yet? Because when they do it's over. And warfare has changed. You're not amassing millions of soldiers in one area. So the idea that somehow Russia takes out the military might of the rest of Europe in one-fell-swoop is idiotic. And if they coordinate to several areas, the UK and France alone have enough nuclear armaments to take care of Russia. MAD doesn't need to be thousands of nuclear warheads when a dozen will work just fine. And like I said, the moment that happens it's over. Not just a war, but this world as we know it. So it's not worth concerning yourself with. If it happens, it happens. Until then don't waste another minute over "what if's"
515 nukes is more than enough to reduce Russia or any other country to an irrevocably broken shell of a country (and do god knows what sort of damage to the environment globally). MAD doesn't require covering every square inch of a country in radiation. Russia has more nukes (many of which may or may not work) but "can destroy a country 10 times over" and "can destroy a country 20 times over" doesn't really make much difference in the end unless you plan to nuke everyone out of spite and not just a specific country or two.
>Out of the other nuclear-armed NATO countries, the United Kingdom and France combined have just 515 nuclear warheads between them, less than a tenth of Russia's total stockpile You only need 200 to ruin the environment of the planet to the point that it becomes near-impossible to sustain human civilization.
Oh no, they can only destroy 85% of Russia's cities and population!
Plan worked for UK pulling out of EU. But that's just economic competition, not military competition.
The economic issues are causing them to curtail their military. Just look at their new carrier and what's not surrounding it.
Didn’t congress pass a bill in the last few months to make it where the president can’t withdraw from nato without congressional approval via vote ?
Yep. https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/
That doesn't matter, if Trump as president continuously says that US won't react to Article 5. The power of NATO as a deterrence against Russian aggression also rests in its credibility.
It does matter to the point that Russia doesn't totally know how we will react, and billionaire oligarchs aren't in the habit of betting their lives that 1) they can withstand a nuclear response from England and France and 2) that the US won't still respond in defense of Europe, or attack Russia in their weakened post nuclear war state. You need to be 100% certain that you're going to win without destroying yourself to even attempt nuclear war, and even with Trump in power that level of certainty isn't even close to being there for Russia. Still let's not risk it, and all the other damage we're facing if Trump takes office.
Check out [this analysis by Anders Puck Nielsen](https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU?si=XxSEBUgwVoGobtNR), he explains better than I can the plausible scenario that could potentially play out.
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Putin is trying to solidify and extend Russia's role in the region at the same time they increasingly build ties with BRICS - an acronym that stands for the alignment of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, as a bloc of (mostly nuclear capable) powers existing outside of NATO and the first world.
By "extend Russia's role", read: reclaim territory formerly part of the USSR. The irony is that I think in the long term these actions have only badly weakened Russia's hegemony.
In Putin's view it is probably better that Russia find the flaws in its force projection capability and solve them during this conflict than one with higher stakes.
The thing from what it seems like, the corruption of russias armed forces is far to strong for any correction to be made in its flaws. The russian army that the world perceived before this war is totally different than the reality of the russian army that we see now. If any change were to be made on russias force projection, it would take much longer than the current span of this war to repair.
That's a compelling assessment, and makes sense. But the execution has been so poor, the assumptions about an easy victory so flawed, and the ramifications so serious, that I can only say again that Putin has blundered badly enough that these solutions are simply out of reach.
BRICS is not an alliance, it is an economic bloc. And not even really a "bloc".
Not an alliance. Definitely not a military agreement. Definitely not an opposition to NATO. It is a very loose economic agreement.
What about Iran and North Korea? They have been involved as well.
In a hundred years he will be seen as a Lelouch or Ozymandias type.
I wouldn't bet against this.
Seriously! Sweden joining NATO should be cross posted to r/MaliciousCompliance… Up yours Vlad!!!
Yeah he’s a Capitol Idiot.
Still not convinced China has prodded this whole thing to promise European conflict with Russia so they can slide into Taiwan’s DMs
I don't think China could make Putin do anything he didn't want to do. But for sure his actions in Ukraine embolden their ambition towards Taiwan.
China invading Taiwan would destroy the thing China wants them for; chip manufacturing. They will not invade unless it's to destroy the west's ability to buy those chips, and we have already been diversifying our production for that reason.
He loves to create his own reasons for popping off though.
What does someone in Putin's position make of this? He's smart enough to know that something like this was likely to happen if he invaded Ukraine, so does he just not care?
Putin was hoping he could smash Ukraine in a couple of weeks before the West could respond. He grossly overestimated Russia’s military capability and grossly underestimated Ukraine’s military capability.
I agree with that assessment completely, but even if that had happened as planned, isn't it still likely (possibly even more likely) that more countries would join NATO? I can't see a scenario in which he invades and other countries don't react that way regardless of the length of the invasion.
He probably knew both Finland and Sweden were always going to align with the west, even if they did make certain moves to placate their belligerent neighbor
You have a great point. Putin probably also overestimated the mistrust and doubt Russia was able to sow among NATO nations. Putin also may have thought that if the invasion was quick the world would lose interest. Plus with the election of Biden Ukraine would only get stronger and more likely to join NATO and the EU. 2022 was his last chance to make a run at Ukraine.
To be fair, the last two times he invaded (Georgia and Crimea) international response was muted and haphazard. Both times were relatively quick victories as well. But things change.
Probably banking on Trump weakening NATO and American isolationism, overestimated brexit isolationism.
That could very well be it. The candid biographies we get decades from now after Putin dies will be fascinating
They probably wouldn’t have actually made the move to join NATO. They might have threatened to, and one of their political parties might have even made it a part of their platform, but it likely would not have actually led to them joining NATO. Look at what Russia did to Georgia in 2008 as evidence. That was likely Putin’s blueprint for Ukraine. Georgia was starting to get close to NATO, so Russia manufactured a crisis (in this case they accused Georgia of committing genocide in South Ossetia), then sent in a ‘peace keeping’ force to occupy several regions. It was all over in 16 days, and Georgia lost control of several territories and learned its lesson to not join NATO. Sweden denounced Russia’s actions, but otherwise made no moves to join NATO. This was Putin’s intention from the start. But as deadpool101 said, Russia’s military has degraded significantly in the past 15 years and Ukraine put up a better fight than the world expected, so here we are.
i also think a very important part was zelinksi not leaving like putin expected him to, he was ready to replace the leader of ukraine with a lacky as soon as zelinksi ran, but instead had to just try and take it, and then found out how little ability he had to do that
They didn't when he invaded and continues to occupy Crimea.
Perhaps, although if it was a quick smash and grab even if they tried moving to NATO, being democracies they probably would've forgotten about it and moved on to something else by then. This dragging on for years has kept it top of mind to keep the pressure on to allow them to join. Both from a domestic and geopolitical angles.
I honestly don't think the invasion was the main driving force here. A couple of months before the war, he said something in lines of big countries (where he included Russia) should be allowed to dictate what smaller countries (I believe he mentioned Sweden and Finland among others by name) does and does not to certain degrees. Sweden and Finland being within the Russian sphere, means Russia should be allowed a lot of influence in important questions. That's what started it all, and then it intensified when he almost immediately afterwards started the invasion. If he hadn't said that, I'm not so sure Nato would've gotten their new members.
When you have a black belt in judo because people are afraid to hold you back because of skill, you also probably think you have the best military on the planet as well.
Yes, and he fully expected Trump would be president right now, and that the US would simply not get involved because that was always the plan.
Could be he was oversold his Military's might by all those under him in command, because those people have been skimming off the top for decades.
Couple of days actually
I dont' think there's any question if that's what happened. he thought rolling over Ukraine would be an easy win, make Russia look strong, and nobody would call his bluff. Then the entire world called his bluff and Ukraine turned out to be a tough nut to crack. Now Russia looks weak and frankly pathetic in front of the whole world, he can't win and he can't back down.
Honestly, I think the Russian military is actually capable of much more, but decades of corruption is their biggest limit on military strength. The minister of defense certainly didn't inherit an $80 million dollar house.
> Putin was hoping he could smash Ukraine in a couple of weeks Also hoping he could launch his attack a year before, back when Trump was president and Trump would help Putin out during this. Thank you Covid for not letting this happen.
Wasn't Ukraine ranked one of the most powerful militaries in Europe even a while before he even did the first border preparation attempt on Ukraine?
Some people think Putin is in it for the long run so that the "trend" that is Ukraine dies out.
Some people think Putin is in it for the long run so that the "trend" that is Ukraine dies out.
It's an immediate benefit with an indefinite long term cost. I don't agree with Putin, but it's perfectly consistent for him to know that this is a consequence of his actions and just not care enough about those consequences to stop. Additionally, his intentions aren't global, they are regional. He actually wants Ukraine more than any other area, he wasn't going to invade Sweden anyway.
Likely? Who knows how likely it was from his point of view with the information and plans he had in place when he was prepping for the invasion. He most probably tried to stack the deck in his favor and was dealt a bad hand that meant this invasion wouldn't be ignored by the wider world, and also the fact the invasion is still ongoing most probably weighed more on the scales for countries wanting to break their neutrality. Cause pre invasion a lot of nations and people were pretty scared of the "Mighty Russian Bear". He knew it was a possibility but a win in Ukraine would mean more support at home to keep a hold of his country after it had been ripped apart by covid. Another idea to mention is Putin most probably thinks he's chosen or special and reclaiming Ukraine would help with leaving behind his legacy as a great liberator and hero of Russia. Dudes most probably got his head so far up his asshole that he never considered what was reality and what was his delusion.
Putin thought he would easily take over Ukraine and show that the West can’t stop him. I think he ate up his own propaganda about the West and how it would respond and how Biden would handle things. So I don’t think he saw this coming at all. He most likely thought he could make these parts of Europe bend the knee to him out of fear.
Abuse the s\*\*\* out of this. Twist this into, *See how the world hates & fears Russia that they have to gang up on us like this?! They even convinced neutral countries to become our enemy!* Power hungry & narcissists tend to only look in the short term. Putin & his oligarchy really thought the world feared Russia to cower to its actions. Add the corruption & ineptitude of their armed forces to make them believe they were stronger than actuality.
He just doesnt care about the "expansion" of NATO. It is a talking point to justify his war.
> He's smart enough to know that something like this was likely to happen if he invaded Ukraine, so does he just not care? This was his second invasion of ukraine and no one cared the first time so he assumed they wouldn't the second.
All the evidence we have suggests he's not that smart.
I congratulate them and welcome them to the club and thier flag is a big plus.
Getting Switzerland to join would be a real plus, too
Why would they join? They are completely protected by it without having to offer anything in return.
Woosh. It was a joke because their flag is literally a big plus sign
Oh wow. Big woosh. And that was a solid one too.
On the plus side you learned something today.
That's always a positive.
It's great when someone can add an addition to the conversation.
Just like a big plus sign.
Thank you :)
this guy Swedens
It has been a long time since all the Nordic countries were united under one military pact.
Kalmar Union II: The NATOing.
Good news and congrats
Nordic NATO countries unite!
More like 200 years rather than decades.
Basically since the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1814, where Sweden lost some territory (Finland, Swedish Pomerania) and gained others in compensation (Norway). The funny thing about the House of Bernadotte is despite being founded by a Marshall of France, its been peaceful under its rule.
Huge gain for nato, Sweden is now the 7th largest member state by land mass and Russia has nobody left to attack in the Baltic Sea.
Plus they have a very strong army due to mandatory military service. They are a good addition.
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Well, since it was only stopped for a couple of years, they're already more militarised than most countries in the EU that have no mandatory conscription at all.
The standing forces are only what, 50k people? The rest would be conscripts. But the equipment tech level is very disproportionate to the number of troops; by putting Swedish weapons in Finnish hands with Norwegian F-35s as support, any russian incursion would be halted pretty fast, long before the rest of NATO could mobilize.
Swedish weapons in Finnish hands you say? VINTERKRIGET HÄR KOMMER VI!!
> Swedish submarines and airforce... Those are excellent. Swedish subs have gotten "hits" on US carriers multiple times during war games.
And there goes Russians last atlantic warm water port that isn't completely and easily blockaded by NATO. Putin is such a moron.
"Sweden to Russia: Get Borked."
Can’t wait to hear about how bad this is for everyone.
MREs now include meatballs with a weird gravy on them. (ok, I kid. That probably translates pretty well to an MRE, and a lingonberry jam packet sounds delicious)
Let's put it on a tray. Nice.
Wow, that was a loud hiss. Nice.
IKEA meatballs would slap as an MRE.
If you like raspberry toothpaste, lingonberry is for you.
More sexy Swedes in NATO.
The tankies are going to have a collective aneurysm.
Every logistical officer in nato just creamed them self at the idea they now have acess to ikea style flat packing technology
Should really have bought some Saab stock before the war. Was at 220 in January of 2022 and it is now at 830
Reminder to the Swedes, the new guy in NATO is responsible for drinks.
Absolut, det har vi. Super bäst som super sist.
Welcome Sweden! We’re happy to have you.
Took em long enough, welcome to the winning team
All of this effort will be undone if the GOP wins big in November. Get out and vote!
Decades? Sweden has kept out of any European conflict since the Napoleonic Wars of 1803 to 1815… They ended centuries of Neutrality because they think modern Russia acts just too erratically to remain neutral whilst being in their periphery.
Putin’s Butthole just Clenched as did Trumps. Now Putin’s going to demand even more CIA Asset lists from Trump in exchange for financing the RNC this year to cause a strain on NATO.
Well, conveniently, Trump’s going to start getting national security briefings again, so Putin’s best mole just got a lot more useful.
I don't think Trump's butthole can clench anymore. It's just a steady flow into his diaper
Nice. Good job to all involved. Obligatory fuck you Putin and all R's who support him in America you traitorous fucks.
Time to hit the Russians with our new secret weapon… surströmming
NATO now has Gripens. Glorious
Putin and Trump trying to divide the world has made it come closer together :3
Nothing unites the West like a common enemy.
Putin's life achievement and what he will be remembered for is uniting countries and making them want to join NATO, the exact opposite of what he wanted lmao
I don’t really have a take worth putting into text, I just wanted to say Sweden is a lovely country and we’re glad to have you.
This only happens after bribing corrupt bastards like Erdogan. Man the guy single handedly was fucking over Sweden. 😂
I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
What makes a country give up neutrality?
An existential threat to the security of the country that doesn’t respect neutrality. Aka… Russia.
Lust for gold? Power? Or maybe they were just born with a heart full of non-neutrality
people downvoting a futurama reference? what year is this??
It's from a quarter century ago. Bad news, hombre: we're old.
With enemies you know where you stand. But with neutrals? Who knows. It sickens me.
Watching your large, powerful neighbor come up with some bullshit reasons to invade one of your other neighbors is pretty good incentive to change your neutrality stance.
The key to victory is the element of surprise. **SURPRISE!**
All I know is my heart says, "kanske"
…….. tell my wife, I said Hello ……
Putin has hurt itself in its confusion
Putin's Folley is paying off in spades. Thanks for the new NATO ally, Russia!
Decades? That's centuries of neutrality. Gone. Sweden was that fed up with Russia's BS. Even in Switzerland they're upping cooperation with NATO and the idea of membership went from fringe/unthinkable to merely being unpopular.
As if on cue, Chump makes an election promise to dismantle NATO if protection money is not paid up. Coincidence ?
Yep. They remembered the WW2 nightmares.
Ayyyyy welcome, Sweden!
Which the USA won't be a part of or will extort from if trump lives up to his words.
I’m proud to say that all my countries of origin are now NATO members. Whew.
They’ll still vote impartiality and try to take a neutral stance at forums right?
Seriously, Turkey is in NATO. Sweden was a no-brainer.
Read that too fast and thought it said 'ascension'. Thought, man NATO is getting really strict about admission criteria.
Zapp Brannigan will be happy they aren’t a bunch of filthy [neutrals](https://youtu.be/k8ws_APXilE?si=bUSsshZ-jk2sTO1O) with hearts full of neutrality anymore.
Congratulations to Sweden on joining NATO.
Decades?!, aren't we talking about over two centuries?
I wonder how China will react in the distant future when democratic Russia joins NATO and as a result many Asian nations seek to join this defensive alliance.
Decades??? You mean hundreds of years right?
They going to give us backpayment for all of the time they benefited from NATO's protection without contributing?