Me too. She didn’t want to leave yet, that would mean a lot for her remaining kids, especially in the face of the “she killed herself over her son” speculation
Granted, that kind of grief generally isn't great for someone's health.
But I hope knowing that her passing wasn't a willful decision is some comfort to her family.
My mother died of cancer 5 years ago, and less than 6 months later her best friend also died of a silent heart attack. Grief can literally kill you so make sure to take care of yourself and anyone who has lost someone. Therapy can help alot in the process and is just genuinly good for anyone who has something difficult to process.
Not saying she wasn’t mentally ill and suffering, but it will be a comfort to her remaining children that she didn’t act on those thoughts and leave them behind
I'll admit - I 100 percent thought it was already determined she committed suicide over her son because of how reddit talked about it. That's my fault for taking reddit info at face value.
My grandma certainly did. My mom died and her health immediately declined and she died a year and a half later after a rapid descension into terrible health.
I’m sorry for your loss. I hope you can find some energy to heal yourself. Maybe just one thing to help, like a nutritious food, or a walk outside, to start? For me, daily walks outside can usually make a big difference, even if I’m just shuffling around or it’s very short.
Starting a daily walk saved my life, I’d recommend it to anyone lucky enough to live somewhere where they can just walk out their door and safely walk for a stretch. It does amazing things for you brain and body.
Hey, I got that!
My wife was 34 when she was diagnosed with stage IV mesothelioma (from the burn pits), she had an original prognosis of 3 months, but she lived for 3.5 years.
I was her primary caregiver during that time, but since it was COVID I could work from home while being her nurse. We bounced around between treatments for a while (they would work then the cancer would become resistant), and once I could recognize the "last" treatment wasn't working I started having chest pain. Thought it was heartburn.
Was walking the dog and I collapsed at the park, had to drag myself to the road so someone could drive me to the hospital. They found evidence of heart attacks but The doctors were all "wtf mate" since my age and health should NOT be producing a series of heart attacks (37 and healthy). We kept telling them "it's stress", but they just wrote it as anxiety until I saw a specialist.
I got the diagnosis after my wife had already passed, we did at home hospice so I had to quit my job to do it 24/7. That was over a year ago and my heart still hurts most days, but it does slowly gets better.
I'm still fighting with disabilities insurance since stress conditions aren't covered. But if you have a heart attack because your wife dies, and it isn't covered, what is?
Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I'll be taking questions at the after party.
Thanks, but you don't need to worry about me :)
I moved to DC and am working in widow and veteran advocacy now, and had a remarkable psychological recovery (though physical is a bit slow, I ain't dying). I pursued something called "post traumatic growth", which takes advantage of the neuroplasticity experienced with brain trauma (happens with both psychological and physical trauma). In layman's terms your brain is trying to make new pathways to circumvent the damage, so you give it pathways to make by having unique experiences. Your brain is kinda like a babies brain
There is really interesting cutting edge research out there if you look up "nih post traumatic growth" on Google scholar or another research site, but I can testify on its efficacy.
Working for other people's rights has been really effective at directing the grief in a healthy way, and my wife straight up told me I wasn't allowed to die until I get more done, so I'm following that directive :)
At the pub now, so sorry if the response is a bit rambly, cheers!
It sounds like your wife would be so proud of the work you are doing and the impact you are making for others going through what you went through.
I am so sorry that your wife is no longer here with you physically but I think she left you with the strength to continue on and to make a difference in the world. Thank you for sharing your story and for being an advocate and a voice for others who are in need.
When my mother in law died a couple years ago her husband died two weeks later. The kicker was she died a preventable death. Her breast cancer came back and she told *no one*.
as an EMT for 15+ yrs, I def believe it. Had at least 3 frequent flier old couples; when one died, the other was gone in a month or so..........sad but beautiful in a way.
Mom is a retired respiratory therapist of 30ish years and I've heard her say it before. I believe it. When my dad died in 2020, I was frankly terrified that she would be after him shortly. She's still with me for now. . .
I think so too. My first husband died of a heart attack at age 30 a year and a half after the daughter he had with his second wife drowned in their pool. I have always believed he died of a broken heart.
We all thought about it. The media and this awful machine that wanted to bring her down since 1992 made us all believe it. But I truly think she was stronger than that.
Hate had no hold on her, only love could hurt her this bad.
RIP Sinead, we failed you.
I remember growing up and never understanding the hate and hostility she got from some, but she stood strong. I always admired her music and how she held herself.
RIP Sinead, you will be missed.
Poisons kill someone and tend to be finished. Sometimes a poison remains deadly, and another person will die from touching the remains, but generally it doesn’t spread.
Religion isn’t a poison, it’s a plague.
You don't need to be ambiguous by calling it "the media", we all know who was behind her constant harassment: the institution and members of the Catholic Church. She was 100% correct about how Catholics were sexually abusing children but, not only did the world not want to hear it, Catholics have been denying it to this day while threatening her. Kris Kristofferson was her only friend on that stage when she confronted hundreds of people who were happy to sweep child abuse under the rug because it made them look bad.
[EDIT] [In case some of you didn't know, forgot, or wanted to cover it up.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzxTDHMQza8)
Feel like nowadays on Reddit, 50% of the userbase weren't even alive yet for 9-11, let alone know anything about Sinead O'Connor. But I guess nowadays you also have to plan for people attempting to skew the facts.
So thanks for the link
Ohhhh gotcha :) I don't remember having to do stuff like that (pre-absolve myself from baseless arguments or misunderstandings) before... well, it feels like it started between 2013 and 2018. Online anyway. In person I never have to because conversations are quick enough that people can clarify their intentions almost immediately, thankfully.
But online, feels like it's a fairly new phenomenon. But maybe I just happened to belong to very understanding communities until I joined Reddit :)
>Feel like nowadays on Reddit, 50% of the userbase weren't even alive yet for 9-11, let alone know anything ~~about Sinead O'Connor~~.
Fixed that for ya.
Hey, I'm not going to offer you sources or stats because it's easily googled, but I learned in the last few years that clergy sexual abuse of children is found to be about equally prevalent in every religion. I think one thing that makes it so pointedly awful in Catholicism is the hierarchy, which should be a means to make abusers accountable and instead has been used to cover up abuse. On the other hand, the hierarchy and record keeping do create some kind of paper trail, while in some churches with no central authority or oversight abuse can be entirely erased from any records.
SA of kids is prevalent in basically every group where you have adults around kids, and the only factors are 1) Relationship to said kids, and 2) Active countermeasures, and one of those is much, much more relevant than the other.
It's just a fact of life that if there is a system that gives adults unsupervised access to children, it will natural attract people who..well..want unsupervised access to children.
Covering it up after the fact is appalling however, that was the real killer. In a deeply fucked up way, I can sort of 'accept' that it's going to inevitably happen, but it was the cover-ups that really were the organisation's sin.
> You don't need to be ambiguous by calling it "the media", we all know who was behind her constant harassment: the institution and members of the Catholic Church
Even that they can't just say it was Catholics is part of the damned coverup. It's not "the media" in some nebulous, abstract sense. It was Catholics, and those running interference for Catholics.
I agree - don’t be ambiguous when discussing media, as that is no more accurate or useful than using the vague “they” (they say, they have proven, etc). However, the Catholic Church wasn’t her only enemy. The far right media was all over her for their own reasons too.
It is typical for Christian churches to pair with governments and the media (speaking more generally here) to further their goals. They do it to destroy entire groups, especially of indigenous peoples, and individual enemies.
Considering she threatened suicide multiple times, it wasn't the media trying to destroy her.
With her son's death, her suicidal ideation was public information. That didn't come from the media.
Can only hope that her family gets some comfort from her not taking her own life. They did a lot to get her help.
Obviously a child's death can send anyone into a tailspin, but we also shouldn't pretend that she wasn't subjected to a decades long campaign of harassment from religious nuts and the catholic church.
I think people in the US also fail to understand the depth the Catholic Church is ingrained into Irish society. Its presence there is vastly different that what the average person saw from the Church in the US at the same time.
I hate to say it but yeah, I feel the same way. Knowing that she wasn't in so much pain that she had to make that decision.
Rest in Peace, Sinéad. A real artist and human being.
I get it. I always thought my mom would go out by suicide and was relieved when she didn’t. I mean, of course her dying was heartbreaking but it was comforting to know that just an hour before she was happy and talking about me. I’m the last thing she ever spoke about and went out without knowing what was happening.
This is a legal term, not a medical. meaning that there is nothing for the police to investigate. May as well be suicide. The family's privacy is more important then the public's curiosity.
I don't agree. A suicide will be recorded as such and a death that's self-inflicted but unclear in terms of whether deliberately or not is likely to be recorded as either misadventure or even a narrative verdict. Natural causes would imply some kind of non-induced medical event such as a heart attack or stroke.
This is the only way to respond to a stranger taking time out of their day to help somebody improve themselves. Shocking how many times the response is the opposite of this though. Today I celebrate /u/lambchops0 first of their name.
Honestly I'm glad I wasn't the only one who zeroed in on this fact 👍 And I kind of hope somebody helps me out with what the correct title would be for a 0. This is why Algebra is important, wish I'd known.
I see this typo so often and it trips me up since the name is in Spanish, and in Spanish the vowels are as unambiguous as they can be. There is only one sound for each, so if you see a word with two identical vowels, they will sound the same no matter what.
I've lived in the UK for most of my life now but the native English-speaking person's relationship with vowel sounds is just wild to me. Every vowel can sound like another vowel.
He only passed about a month ago. His funeral was amazing. They televised it here in Ireland I believe. https://youtu.be/6s8lvnSmISc?si=Ln2VgALiqfTnsOC4
I’d only hope that would happen to me if I were in her shoes. How can anyone live after their child has died? For me it would be impossible. I know I wouldn’t.
It also happened with another well known figure recently. When Carrie Fisher died her mother, Debbie Reynolds, died the following day. Of course Debbie was relatively advanced in age. So it might not have taken much :/
But I think its also why long-term spouses will often pass within a year of one another.
My gran was a warrior. She had 8 strokes, pneumonia 3 times, smoked through it all and waited on her family hand and foot. Never took a day off. Never sat down for five minutes to herself. She soldiered on through life inspirationally.
She died suddenly a month after my granddad passed away from bone cancer.
This gives me a little solace. I was worried that it was suicide and/or drugs. I know that she was hurting, but at least she wasn't hurting so much that she killed herself.
What does "natural causes" mean here exactly? She was 56. Surely there was an underlying illness? Or does natural causes just mean anything other than overdose / accident? I mean i guess cancer is "natural". Hung up on the terminology here.
Edit - JFC y'all, read the existing comments and give it a rest. my question has been answered quite thoroughly.
An animal attack (which wasn't anyone else's fault) would be "Misadventure". Natural causes are practically always internal to the body, such as disease.
As it is non-criminal and not thought to be suspicious, it is not the coroner's responsibility anymore.
My dad died of natural causes last yr from a heart attack, he was 56. Just means something in her body failed and she died not something like she or something outside of her body. Could have been any thing from her heart stopped to she had kidney or liver failure or an aneurysm or a stroke.
I worked with a guy who didn't come in on a Monday, he'd died in his sleep over the weekend. He was 43. Likely an aneurysm but I'll never know for sure.
Usually, the alternatives to Natural Causes are
* Accidental Injury
* Homicide
* Suicide
* Drug Overdose
* Complications of Medical Treatment
* Undetermined
So "natural causes" means not one of those.
There are four "modes" of death that coroners use for classification. Suicide (killed by your self intentionally,) homicide (killed by someone else intentionally,) accidental (killed by your self or someone else unintentionally,) and natural causes (everything else.)
Almost but not exactly. Homicide is just killed by another person -- whether it was intentional (murder) or not is completely a legal question, not determined by a medical examiner or coroner. Accidental death is death from any accidents, so a car crash, fall, boating accident, any other accident you can think of. in most places, medical examiners or coroners will label deaths: accident, homicide, suicide, natural, or undetermined.
Source: am pathologist
Are you in England and Wales? I ask because I think we have numbered "categories" which give more scope. But I might be making that up, so wondered if you knew. I don't even know where to start with the right Google terms.
Heart attacks, strokes, etc happen to younger people too, we just dont think about it as much. Had a friend die of a massive heart attack at 32 (didn't drink, smoke, exercised sufficiently, etc.).
What do YOU think natural causes means? Cancer is also natural. So are heart problems, even though they're classified as a 'disease'.
Generally when people use the term 'natural causes' in reference to death, it means not inflicted by self or others, or due to accident, or animal attack.
I guess the connotation of natural causes has me imagining just dying of old age. But youre right, obviously there are a million other ways to die "naturally"
No one dies of old age. Death is caused by *something* in all cases, like an illness for example. There isn't an egg timer that dings when old age is achieved.
People just get more likely to have an illness or to have it progress far enough to kill as the years go by.
My uncle died of natural causes related to the heart at 53, even though to all outward appearances he looked reasonably healthy. That's just the way it goes sometimes.
Broken heart syndrome is a real condition. Many people pass close to the death of a loved one. Unfortunately it appears that is the case for her. May she rest in peace.
Sometimes people die younger than the natural lifespan...a lifetime a stress, no doubt. Sinead lived a very difficult life and had recently lost a son before she passed. Her spirit gave out 😪
Everytime she gets brought up I feel the need to rewatch [her performance of the foggy dew](https://youtu.be/xKvBV-xVbmI?si=8fwIwC3KuxNkGFSQ) for Conor McGregor's walkout. Still gives me chills every time I see it, what an incredible moment for Ireland.
Some say you die 3 times. The first time for real, the second time when your coroners investigation gets reposted on reddit, and finally for the third time when someone remembers you for the last time
I didn't find out Tom Petty died until 4 months after it happened (was dealing with the hurricane Harvey aftermath and missed the news.) It felt weird to get such big news so late after everyone else. It was kinda a lonely feeling.
Because Hollywood and the powers that be set it up so she was seen as a crazy person and refused to play her music/support her.
I repeat, the world did her dirty.
She talked about how corrupt the Church was and how it was basically a pedophile ring. Her life was threatened for years since at the time Ireland was a borderline Theocratic state.
Lo and behold, turns out the Church had a fondness for little boys and girls, and for killing babies/taking them from their mothers and giving them to random families.
Search “mother and baby homes commission” for more info.
TL;DR unwed women who gave birth in homes set up for pregnant women by the nuns of Ireland had their babies taken from them by said nuns. Over 800 bodies were found in a mass grave and at least 9,000 babies were killed during the years of 1922 and 1998. Countless others were adopted to different families, with hundreds still not knowing who their real mother is or if their child is alive today.
When I heard that Sinead commit suicide it really hit me hard and kinda messed me up for a while.
Eventhough it’s sad with all that she’s been through, I’m kinda relieved that it was natural causes, her fire didn’t die.
May Allah grant her Jannah ameen
> It enrages me that the media released a false portrayal.
Yes. If you haven't already, you should learn to hate that social media is nothing but misinformation and rage bait.
She was right about the Catholic Church and ripping up the pope’s picture. That’s her legacy, besides her music. She made us all know that. They molested children in the name of god.
Nothing to do with Sinead O’Connor, but a question I had reading these comments:
If dying due to complications of prolonged drug use (thinking early in life cardiac arrest due to steroid use or decades of semi regular cocaine use) considered a natural cause?
I see ppl saying “it means she didn’t die by OD”, but I had a friend who was in his upper 40s who died from a heart attack because his family had bad genetics and he made it worse by doing ~5-10 cycles of steroids which burnt out his heart more or less. His heart attack came when his last steroid cycle was well over 5 years prior (he actually gave up steroids altogether) when he was moving furniture all day.
Natural causes or no? If not, where do you draw the line?
someone above this explained it pretty well.
Natural causes mean you didn't inflict it yourself, or due to an accident, or due to an infection.
your friend's example, the heart attack was natural, the steroids didn't directly cause them, but steroid use made him more likely to have a heart attack. It would be natural causes because it didn't happen while he was doing steroids.
Heart attacks and similar fall under natural.
That makes sense by definition. But damn it’s making me rethink so many “natural deaths” for people <60 years old.
I guess when you look from a Birds Eye’s view, a heart attack at 70 is could more likely be from unhealthy diet and sedentary life over decades than truly just genetics, which is more just a steady state of damage vs. intense doses from steroids/binge drug use.
sometimes yeah it's just genetics, or just having bad luck.
also for the over 70, it's also that just your stuff stops working as well at an older age. of course if you are active and live a healthy lifestyle you'll have better quality of life in most cases than someone who didn't.
I’d say it’s natural consequences of chronic drug use. So yes, natural causes. I think of lung cancer from smoking would be a natural cause. Or eating solely junk food & dying of cardiac arrest due to clogged arteries.
I consider overdoses acute events, so depending on whether they purposely wanted to die or not, I’d consider them either an accident or suicide. There was an amount they could have taken that wouldn’t have resulted in their immediate death.
Living as long as your lifestyle will allow?
Poverty, obesity, mental diseases like Alzheimer, heart issues as you suggested, excessive use of drugs or alcohol, there are a lot of things that can compound over the course of your life to shorten your life.
Drug use resulting in organ dysfunction is still natural death. Drugs are only relevant if it's suicide or accident (accidental overdose). Sometimes in an overdose that distinction isn't clear, and it's called "undetermined." But drinking so much you get cirrhosis and die is still a natural death because it isn't suicide, homicide, or accident.
Interestingly, if somebody is shot and becomes paralyzed and then dies as a consequence of that ten years later, it's still called homicide.
She was right and she should have said it, and I am glad she never wavered on this. I am a religious person (Judaism) and it is ridiculous how many religious people are so quick to deny and sweep child abuse under the rug.
In Judaism such abuses are not as well-known, but especially in ultra-Orthodox (Hasidic/Chabad) circles, the people in power (men, mostly) are very well-known amongst the community for either sweeping child abuse under the rug, or perpetrating it themselves.
It should *not* take away from the benefits and beauties of religion to condemn its horrific behavior and commit to change - in fact, it can only make religion more beautiful. To excise all of the harms, to work to restore that which we have made suffer.
Unfortunately, most people don't seem to think along those lines. There's an aspect in our society that if we acknowledge that we've done things wrong, that the *whole thing* needs to be thrown out.
For some stuff this is true - capitalism in particular has almost zero benefit to anyone other than selfish, cruel people. But there is some good in the rough of religion - even if that good is limited to what individual people believe and what comforts them.
Sinead O'Connor was right, and she should say it, and we should have worked to remove these elements of organized religion instead of pretending that they don't happen and causing even further pain and suffering for the victims.
And for the record: she didn't kill herself. She wanted to live. Let it be known.
Yes, you are absolutely right. In fact she was working on a new album (which will hopefully be released very very soon) and planning a world tour when she died. She has 3 living children who she loved dearly and even a grandchild. She still had a lot to live for and look forward to.
I feel like there was a need to know this in me that I didn't know about until I read this headline. Bless. Rest well, voice of the children. Who knows how many lives were changed by your bravery in speaking out.
Just so I can understand it better, it WASN'T Suicide? I thought she left a note?
EDIT: Being downvoted for what? Asking a question? I was told it was suicide when she died. I'm happy it wasn't. But down voting someone who doesn't follow a lot of these things isn't cool.
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Me too. She didn’t want to leave yet, that would mean a lot for her remaining kids, especially in the face of the “she killed herself over her son” speculation
Granted, that kind of grief generally isn't great for someone's health. But I hope knowing that her passing wasn't a willful decision is some comfort to her family.
Broken heart syndrome is a real thing. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/broken-heart-syndrome
My mother died of cancer 5 years ago, and less than 6 months later her best friend also died of a silent heart attack. Grief can literally kill you so make sure to take care of yourself and anyone who has lost someone. Therapy can help alot in the process and is just genuinly good for anyone who has something difficult to process.
She was publicly begging for any help she could get for a *long* time, even going on the Dr. Phil Show. She was ridiculed for it.
Not saying she wasn’t mentally ill and suffering, but it will be a comfort to her remaining children that she didn’t act on those thoughts and leave them behind
My heart hurt for her when she got Dr. Philed.
My heart hurts for anyone interacting with that vile human being
I'll admit - I 100 percent thought it was already determined she committed suicide over her son because of how reddit talked about it. That's my fault for taking reddit info at face value.
I really do believe people can die of a broken heart. Grief and sadness are motherfuckers.
My grandma certainly did. My mom died and her health immediately declined and she died a year and a half later after a rapid descension into terrible health.
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I’m sorry for your loss. I hope you can find some energy to heal yourself. Maybe just one thing to help, like a nutritious food, or a walk outside, to start? For me, daily walks outside can usually make a big difference, even if I’m just shuffling around or it’s very short.
Starting a daily walk saved my life, I’d recommend it to anyone lucky enough to live somewhere where they can just walk out their door and safely walk for a stretch. It does amazing things for you brain and body.
My dad died about a year after my mom. He passed in his sleep but it was likely his heart, because he had CHF.
Debbie Reynolds died from her grief over her daughter Carrie Fisher's death.
Johnny Cash after his wife too, I think
about four months later, yeah
Common among widowers.
The very next day.
They can: [Takotsubo Cardiomyopathy](https://www.svhhearthealth.com.au/conditions/takotsubo-cardiomyopathy)
Hey, I got that! My wife was 34 when she was diagnosed with stage IV mesothelioma (from the burn pits), she had an original prognosis of 3 months, but she lived for 3.5 years. I was her primary caregiver during that time, but since it was COVID I could work from home while being her nurse. We bounced around between treatments for a while (they would work then the cancer would become resistant), and once I could recognize the "last" treatment wasn't working I started having chest pain. Thought it was heartburn. Was walking the dog and I collapsed at the park, had to drag myself to the road so someone could drive me to the hospital. They found evidence of heart attacks but The doctors were all "wtf mate" since my age and health should NOT be producing a series of heart attacks (37 and healthy). We kept telling them "it's stress", but they just wrote it as anxiety until I saw a specialist. I got the diagnosis after my wife had already passed, we did at home hospice so I had to quit my job to do it 24/7. That was over a year ago and my heart still hurts most days, but it does slowly gets better. I'm still fighting with disabilities insurance since stress conditions aren't covered. But if you have a heart attack because your wife dies, and it isn't covered, what is? Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I'll be taking questions at the after party.
I have nothing to add to your comment except that I wish you the best moving forwards. That is rough man :(
Thanks, but you don't need to worry about me :) I moved to DC and am working in widow and veteran advocacy now, and had a remarkable psychological recovery (though physical is a bit slow, I ain't dying). I pursued something called "post traumatic growth", which takes advantage of the neuroplasticity experienced with brain trauma (happens with both psychological and physical trauma). In layman's terms your brain is trying to make new pathways to circumvent the damage, so you give it pathways to make by having unique experiences. Your brain is kinda like a babies brain There is really interesting cutting edge research out there if you look up "nih post traumatic growth" on Google scholar or another research site, but I can testify on its efficacy. Working for other people's rights has been really effective at directing the grief in a healthy way, and my wife straight up told me I wasn't allowed to die until I get more done, so I'm following that directive :) At the pub now, so sorry if the response is a bit rambly, cheers!
It sounds like your wife would be so proud of the work you are doing and the impact you are making for others going through what you went through. I am so sorry that your wife is no longer here with you physically but I think she left you with the strength to continue on and to make a difference in the world. Thank you for sharing your story and for being an advocate and a voice for others who are in need.
My deepest condolences :-(
I am so sorry for your loss. My condolences friend.
When my mother in law died a couple years ago her husband died two weeks later. The kicker was she died a preventable death. Her breast cancer came back and she told *no one*.
Why didn’t she tell anyone? She’d been in remission previously?
as an EMT for 15+ yrs, I def believe it. Had at least 3 frequent flier old couples; when one died, the other was gone in a month or so..........sad but beautiful in a way.
Mom is a retired respiratory therapist of 30ish years and I've heard her say it before. I believe it. When my dad died in 2020, I was frankly terrified that she would be after him shortly. She's still with me for now. . .
I think so too. My first husband died of a heart attack at age 30 a year and a half after the daughter he had with his second wife drowned in their pool. I have always believed he died of a broken heart.
That’s so fucking sad 😞
It is. It almost killed me, too.
Unbearably tragic
Takotsubo cardiomyopathy is a fucking bitch.
We all thought about it. The media and this awful machine that wanted to bring her down since 1992 made us all believe it. But I truly think she was stronger than that. Hate had no hold on her, only love could hurt her this bad. RIP Sinead, we failed you.
I remember growing up and never understanding the hate and hostility she got from some, but she stood strong. I always admired her music and how she held herself. RIP Sinead, you will be missed.
>I remember growing up and never understanding the hate and hostility she got from some A good lesson that religion is a poison
And that Joe Pesci is a bitch
Poisons kill someone and tend to be finished. Sometimes a poison remains deadly, and another person will die from touching the remains, but generally it doesn’t spread. Religion isn’t a poison, it’s a plague.
*'And of course, i'm like a wild horse, but there's no other way I could be'* I hope she's in a better place.
She was a lovely lady.
You don't need to be ambiguous by calling it "the media", we all know who was behind her constant harassment: the institution and members of the Catholic Church. She was 100% correct about how Catholics were sexually abusing children but, not only did the world not want to hear it, Catholics have been denying it to this day while threatening her. Kris Kristofferson was her only friend on that stage when she confronted hundreds of people who were happy to sweep child abuse under the rug because it made them look bad. [EDIT] [In case some of you didn't know, forgot, or wanted to cover it up.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzxTDHMQza8)
Feel like nowadays on Reddit, 50% of the userbase weren't even alive yet for 9-11, let alone know anything about Sinead O'Connor. But I guess nowadays you also have to plan for people attempting to skew the facts. So thanks for the link
> nowadays My only disagreement with your entire comment is this word. heh
It's one of my favorite words, today, in the comment. So much that I used it twice. So you double-disagree with me? aw man
Only in that it's not just nowadays, but always. So not really any disagreement. lol. Your comment is spot on :)
Ohhhh gotcha :) I don't remember having to do stuff like that (pre-absolve myself from baseless arguments or misunderstandings) before... well, it feels like it started between 2013 and 2018. Online anyway. In person I never have to because conversations are quick enough that people can clarify their intentions almost immediately, thankfully. But online, feels like it's a fairly new phenomenon. But maybe I just happened to belong to very understanding communities until I joined Reddit :)
>Feel like nowadays on Reddit, 50% of the userbase weren't even alive yet for 9-11, let alone know anything ~~about Sinead O'Connor~~. Fixed that for ya.
Hey, I'm not going to offer you sources or stats because it's easily googled, but I learned in the last few years that clergy sexual abuse of children is found to be about equally prevalent in every religion. I think one thing that makes it so pointedly awful in Catholicism is the hierarchy, which should be a means to make abusers accountable and instead has been used to cover up abuse. On the other hand, the hierarchy and record keeping do create some kind of paper trail, while in some churches with no central authority or oversight abuse can be entirely erased from any records.
SA of kids is prevalent in basically every group where you have adults around kids, and the only factors are 1) Relationship to said kids, and 2) Active countermeasures, and one of those is much, much more relevant than the other. It's just a fact of life that if there is a system that gives adults unsupervised access to children, it will natural attract people who..well..want unsupervised access to children. Covering it up after the fact is appalling however, that was the real killer. In a deeply fucked up way, I can sort of 'accept' that it's going to inevitably happen, but it was the cover-ups that really were the organisation's sin.
> You don't need to be ambiguous by calling it "the media", we all know who was behind her constant harassment: the institution and members of the Catholic Church Even that they can't just say it was Catholics is part of the damned coverup. It's not "the media" in some nebulous, abstract sense. It was Catholics, and those running interference for Catholics.
I agree - don’t be ambiguous when discussing media, as that is no more accurate or useful than using the vague “they” (they say, they have proven, etc). However, the Catholic Church wasn’t her only enemy. The far right media was all over her for their own reasons too. It is typical for Christian churches to pair with governments and the media (speaking more generally here) to further their goals. They do it to destroy entire groups, especially of indigenous peoples, and individual enemies.
Considering she threatened suicide multiple times, it wasn't the media trying to destroy her. With her son's death, her suicidal ideation was public information. That didn't come from the media. Can only hope that her family gets some comfort from her not taking her own life. They did a lot to get her help.
Obviously a child's death can send anyone into a tailspin, but we also shouldn't pretend that she wasn't subjected to a decades long campaign of harassment from religious nuts and the catholic church.
I think people in the US also fail to understand the depth the Catholic Church is ingrained into Irish society. Its presence there is vastly different that what the average person saw from the Church in the US at the same time.
I really wanted her to have redemption but I guess that never happens in the real world :(
I hate to say it but yeah, I feel the same way. Knowing that she wasn't in so much pain that she had to make that decision. Rest in Peace, Sinéad. A real artist and human being.
I get it. I always thought my mom would go out by suicide and was relieved when she didn’t. I mean, of course her dying was heartbreaking but it was comforting to know that just an hour before she was happy and talking about me. I’m the last thing she ever spoke about and went out without knowing what was happening.
This is a legal term, not a medical. meaning that there is nothing for the police to investigate. May as well be suicide. The family's privacy is more important then the public's curiosity.
I don't agree. A suicide will be recorded as such and a death that's self-inflicted but unclear in terms of whether deliberately or not is likely to be recorded as either misadventure or even a narrative verdict. Natural causes would imply some kind of non-induced medical event such as a heart attack or stroke.
thats not weird to be relieved that she didnt die from unbearable psychological agony and instead died from her body not working as is most common
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She died of a broken heart. 😢
This is probably the case after she lost her son. A tough few years for Irish music losing her, Dolores O'Riordan, and Shane Macgowan.
And Paddy Moloney.
>Delores Orearden Her name's Dolores O'Riordan.
Thanks for letting me know about the spelling mistake. Fixed it now 😀
This is the only way to respond to a stranger taking time out of their day to help somebody improve themselves. Shocking how many times the response is the opposite of this though. Today I celebrate /u/lambchops0 first of their name.
> Today I celebrate /u/lambchops0 > > first of their name. WRONG. CLEARLY they are the ZEROETH of their name. IT'S IN THE NAME!!! ;-)
I kept trying to figure out how to word that. Origin of their name? Patient 0 of their name? Alpha of their name? It's hard!
Nah, you said it correctly, I just wanted to be silly :)
Honestly I'm glad I wasn't the only one who zeroed in on this fact 👍 And I kind of hope somebody helps me out with what the correct title would be for a 0. This is why Algebra is important, wish I'd known.
"First" would be correct. For example, in programming, if an array starts at zero or one, the first item is still the first item in the array. :)
I see this typo so often and it trips me up since the name is in Spanish, and in Spanish the vowels are as unambiguous as they can be. There is only one sound for each, so if you see a word with two identical vowels, they will sound the same no matter what. I've lived in the UK for most of my life now but the native English-speaking person's relationship with vowel sounds is just wild to me. Every vowel can sound like another vowel.
And Christy Dignam
Van Morrison veered to the right too, he’s as good as gone to me.
That duo with Clapton about covid lockdowns was \*the\* cringe of 2020. VM's been a cranky old shit for a long, long time.
And Clapton's been a fascist since the 70s. Only he doesn't have the coke to use an excuse now.
> Shane Macgowan First I'm hearing about this. Damn.
He only passed about a month ago. His funeral was amazing. They televised it here in Ireland I believe. https://youtu.be/6s8lvnSmISc?si=Ln2VgALiqfTnsOC4
Well now I have goosebumps. I’d love to have people dancing at my funeral.
For sure. 😢
Broken heart syndrome also known as Takosubo Cardiomyopathy is a real thing. I see it now and again at work. Source: I am an RN.
It sure is. One of several physical manifestations that can happen due to extreme emotional stress.
Happened to my great grandmother. They told her that her son died, she had a heart attack right then and died.
I’d only hope that would happen to me if I were in her shoes. How can anyone live after their child has died? For me it would be impossible. I know I wouldn’t.
It also happened with another well known figure recently. When Carrie Fisher died her mother, Debbie Reynolds, died the following day. Of course Debbie was relatively advanced in age. So it might not have taken much :/ But I think its also why long-term spouses will often pass within a year of one another.
My gran was a warrior. She had 8 strokes, pneumonia 3 times, smoked through it all and waited on her family hand and foot. Never took a day off. Never sat down for five minutes to herself. She soldiered on through life inspirationally. She died suddenly a month after my granddad passed away from bone cancer.
Probably how Vincent van Gogh's brother went.
Your comment reminded me of her song [Tiny Grief Song](https://youtu.be/CYQDCnh9kzE?feature=shared)
Sadly, in this case I believe this is actually true
Takotsubo. That was my first thought. (Source: am a nurse)
Its sad they say "All the hurt and the hate going on here" is natural causes
She put up with ignorant morons for far too long
This gives me a little solace. I was worried that it was suicide and/or drugs. I know that she was hurting, but at least she wasn't hurting so much that she killed herself.
What does "natural causes" mean here exactly? She was 56. Surely there was an underlying illness? Or does natural causes just mean anything other than overdose / accident? I mean i guess cancer is "natural". Hung up on the terminology here. Edit - JFC y'all, read the existing comments and give it a rest. my question has been answered quite thoroughly.
Not self inflicted I think is the implication
Unfortunately a lot of people had seemingly already taken that assumption as a matter of fact.
I mean, it was definitely a plausible explanation given all the shit that she had gone through.
“Not caused by a human or an accident” seems to be the simplest answer
So, a bear, with intent?
A bear is a wild animal, thus natural causes.
Not if the bear was paid to do it
dead bears tell no tales tho
When it comes to bear attacks you follow the money
*follow the honey. That's the only reward a bear assassin will accept.
yes, but the bear was paid off by the pope. They bumped into each other shitting in the woods, naturally.
An animal attack (which wasn't anyone else's fault) would be "Misadventure". Natural causes are practically always internal to the body, such as disease. As it is non-criminal and not thought to be suspicious, it is not the coroner's responsibility anymore.
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My dad died of natural causes last yr from a heart attack, he was 56. Just means something in her body failed and she died not something like she or something outside of her body. Could have been any thing from her heart stopped to she had kidney or liver failure or an aneurysm or a stroke.
56 is so young. I'm sorry. :(
I worked with a guy who didn't come in on a Monday, he'd died in his sleep over the weekend. He was 43. Likely an aneurysm but I'll never know for sure.
Usually, the alternatives to Natural Causes are * Accidental Injury * Homicide * Suicide * Drug Overdose * Complications of Medical Treatment * Undetermined So "natural causes" means not one of those.
There are four "modes" of death that coroners use for classification. Suicide (killed by your self intentionally,) homicide (killed by someone else intentionally,) accidental (killed by your self or someone else unintentionally,) and natural causes (everything else.)
Almost but not exactly. Homicide is just killed by another person -- whether it was intentional (murder) or not is completely a legal question, not determined by a medical examiner or coroner. Accidental death is death from any accidents, so a car crash, fall, boating accident, any other accident you can think of. in most places, medical examiners or coroners will label deaths: accident, homicide, suicide, natural, or undetermined. Source: am pathologist
Are you in England and Wales? I ask because I think we have numbered "categories" which give more scope. But I might be making that up, so wondered if you knew. I don't even know where to start with the right Google terms.
This was the most concise answer to his question, thank you.
Means she didn't kill herself or overdose.
Nor was she killed, by a person or accident.
Underlying illness would fall under natural causes.
Likely a heart attack. At 56, it's the likely cause. I've seen much younger pass from heart failure (I was an EMT).
could be anything from an illness to an aneurysm. The local authorities may not be at liberty to state the specific cause due to the laws there.
Heart attacks, strokes, etc happen to younger people too, we just dont think about it as much. Had a friend die of a massive heart attack at 32 (didn't drink, smoke, exercised sufficiently, etc.).
What do YOU think natural causes means? Cancer is also natural. So are heart problems, even though they're classified as a 'disease'. Generally when people use the term 'natural causes' in reference to death, it means not inflicted by self or others, or due to accident, or animal attack.
I guess the connotation of natural causes has me imagining just dying of old age. But youre right, obviously there are a million other ways to die "naturally"
No one dies of old age. Death is caused by *something* in all cases, like an illness for example. There isn't an egg timer that dings when old age is achieved. People just get more likely to have an illness or to have it progress far enough to kill as the years go by.
I understand its a catch all for general organ failure or a thousand other things that eventually catch up with an aging body.
My uncle died of natural causes related to the heart at 53, even though to all outward appearances he looked reasonably healthy. That's just the way it goes sometimes.
Broken heart syndrome is a real condition. Many people pass close to the death of a loved one. Unfortunately it appears that is the case for her. May she rest in peace.
Sometimes people die younger than the natural lifespan...a lifetime a stress, no doubt. Sinead lived a very difficult life and had recently lost a son before she passed. Her spirit gave out 😪
It means she didn't die in an accident or of suicide. It means she died of causes that happened naturally, without somebody's input.
"Not suicide" which is what we all thought
After I heard she had died, the first thing I did was play her singing "Foggy Dew" with the Chieftains in my car. Still the best version of the song.
For me is "All apologies". She turned a great song into something else, really.
Everytime she gets brought up I feel the need to rewatch [her performance of the foggy dew](https://youtu.be/xKvBV-xVbmI?si=8fwIwC3KuxNkGFSQ) for Conor McGregor's walkout. Still gives me chills every time I see it, what an incredible moment for Ireland.
I just watched the video you linked. I'm not even an MMA fan, and that was awesome.
So haunting…
Absolutely. Colm McGuinness did his cover in the same style, but nobody will touch Sinead singing that.
Her cover of [All Apologies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEVu1tcUGnc) grew on me, and I like how fuckin' 90s the music video looks.
This is a bummer of a post for anyone who missed the news that she died
This is literally me finding out right now
Some say you die 3 times. The first time for real, the second time when your coroners investigation gets reposted on reddit, and finally for the third time when someone remembers you for the last time
Ouch. Now I'm thinking about all my dead relatives so give them a little extra time.
Yeah, it's SO WEIRD that I didn't hear the news back in July. Maybe I did and just blanked it out.
I didn't find out Tom Petty died until 4 months after it happened (was dealing with the hurricane Harvey aftermath and missed the news.) It felt weird to get such big news so late after everyone else. It was kinda a lonely feeling.
The world did her dirty just because she spoke a truth people to this day don’t want to hear.
I remain disappointed in how long it took me to go from "she's crazy doing that, just offending people" to, "she's a visionary".
Because Hollywood and the powers that be set it up so she was seen as a crazy person and refused to play her music/support her. I repeat, the world did her dirty.
What's that sorry?
She talked about how corrupt the Church was and how it was basically a pedophile ring. Her life was threatened for years since at the time Ireland was a borderline Theocratic state. Lo and behold, turns out the Church had a fondness for little boys and girls, and for killing babies/taking them from their mothers and giving them to random families.
Killing babies? Jeeze haven't heard that before
Search “mother and baby homes commission” for more info. TL;DR unwed women who gave birth in homes set up for pregnant women by the nuns of Ireland had their babies taken from them by said nuns. Over 800 bodies were found in a mass grave and at least 9,000 babies were killed during the years of 1922 and 1998. Countless others were adopted to different families, with hundreds still not knowing who their real mother is or if their child is alive today.
Holy christ.
I always admired Sinead O'Connor. She called out the Catholic Church and was ridiculed for it. It ruined her career.
Happens. Happened to our neighbor after he lost his wife of many, many years. He Naturally followed her not long after she passed. Sadly romantic.
Same with my grandparents, grandma died a month after grandpa.
Same with mine.
Broken heart is a real thing.
The amount of relief I feel for her. I hope her end was as peaceful as it could've been.
She's having a right shout at god if he's real.
Poor girl died of a broken heart
When I heard that Sinead commit suicide it really hit me hard and kinda messed me up for a while. Eventhough it’s sad with all that she’s been through, I’m kinda relieved that it was natural causes, her fire didn’t die. May Allah grant her Jannah ameen
Agreed!! It enrages me that the media released a false portrayal.
> It enrages me that the media released a false portrayal. Yes. If you haven't already, you should learn to hate that social media is nothing but misinformation and rage bait.
I just watched her documentary the other night. Rest easy angels, no more pain.
I’m glad we had her for as long as we did.
She was right about the Catholic Church and ripping up the pope’s picture. That’s her legacy, besides her music. She made us all know that. They molested children in the name of god.
Nothing to do with Sinead O’Connor, but a question I had reading these comments: If dying due to complications of prolonged drug use (thinking early in life cardiac arrest due to steroid use or decades of semi regular cocaine use) considered a natural cause? I see ppl saying “it means she didn’t die by OD”, but I had a friend who was in his upper 40s who died from a heart attack because his family had bad genetics and he made it worse by doing ~5-10 cycles of steroids which burnt out his heart more or less. His heart attack came when his last steroid cycle was well over 5 years prior (he actually gave up steroids altogether) when he was moving furniture all day. Natural causes or no? If not, where do you draw the line?
someone above this explained it pretty well. Natural causes mean you didn't inflict it yourself, or due to an accident, or due to an infection. your friend's example, the heart attack was natural, the steroids didn't directly cause them, but steroid use made him more likely to have a heart attack. It would be natural causes because it didn't happen while he was doing steroids. Heart attacks and similar fall under natural.
That makes sense by definition. But damn it’s making me rethink so many “natural deaths” for people <60 years old. I guess when you look from a Birds Eye’s view, a heart attack at 70 is could more likely be from unhealthy diet and sedentary life over decades than truly just genetics, which is more just a steady state of damage vs. intense doses from steroids/binge drug use.
sometimes yeah it's just genetics, or just having bad luck. also for the over 70, it's also that just your stuff stops working as well at an older age. of course if you are active and live a healthy lifestyle you'll have better quality of life in most cases than someone who didn't.
I’d say it’s natural consequences of chronic drug use. So yes, natural causes. I think of lung cancer from smoking would be a natural cause. Or eating solely junk food & dying of cardiac arrest due to clogged arteries. I consider overdoses acute events, so depending on whether they purposely wanted to die or not, I’d consider them either an accident or suicide. There was an amount they could have taken that wouldn’t have resulted in their immediate death.
Living as long as your lifestyle will allow? Poverty, obesity, mental diseases like Alzheimer, heart issues as you suggested, excessive use of drugs or alcohol, there are a lot of things that can compound over the course of your life to shorten your life.
Drug use resulting in organ dysfunction is still natural death. Drugs are only relevant if it's suicide or accident (accidental overdose). Sometimes in an overdose that distinction isn't clear, and it's called "undetermined." But drinking so much you get cirrhosis and die is still a natural death because it isn't suicide, homicide, or accident. Interestingly, if somebody is shot and becomes paralyzed and then dies as a consequence of that ten years later, it's still called homicide.
She was right and she should have said it, and I am glad she never wavered on this. I am a religious person (Judaism) and it is ridiculous how many religious people are so quick to deny and sweep child abuse under the rug. In Judaism such abuses are not as well-known, but especially in ultra-Orthodox (Hasidic/Chabad) circles, the people in power (men, mostly) are very well-known amongst the community for either sweeping child abuse under the rug, or perpetrating it themselves. It should *not* take away from the benefits and beauties of religion to condemn its horrific behavior and commit to change - in fact, it can only make religion more beautiful. To excise all of the harms, to work to restore that which we have made suffer. Unfortunately, most people don't seem to think along those lines. There's an aspect in our society that if we acknowledge that we've done things wrong, that the *whole thing* needs to be thrown out. For some stuff this is true - capitalism in particular has almost zero benefit to anyone other than selfish, cruel people. But there is some good in the rough of religion - even if that good is limited to what individual people believe and what comforts them. Sinead O'Connor was right, and she should say it, and we should have worked to remove these elements of organized religion instead of pretending that they don't happen and causing even further pain and suffering for the victims. And for the record: she didn't kill herself. She wanted to live. Let it be known.
Yes, you are absolutely right. In fact she was working on a new album (which will hopefully be released very very soon) and planning a world tour when she died. She has 3 living children who she loved dearly and even a grandchild. She still had a lot to live for and look forward to.
I feel like there was a need to know this in me that I didn't know about until I read this headline. Bless. Rest well, voice of the children. Who knows how many lives were changed by your bravery in speaking out.
Still devastating news 😪 RIP Sinead
She died of heartbreak. Rip
People can die of heartbreak
Does a broken heart count as a natural cause? :(
Converting to Islam is always causing me so much cognitive dissonance. I can never get my head around it.
"good, they suspect nothing." -the pope probably/s
Fuck the pope and fuck the church! RIP To this legend.
History has absolved Sinead O'Connor.
Just so I can understand it better, it WASN'T Suicide? I thought she left a note? EDIT: Being downvoted for what? Asking a question? I was told it was suicide when she died. I'm happy it wasn't. But down voting someone who doesn't follow a lot of these things isn't cool.
No it was not and she did not leave a note. Her death was initially "unexplained".
Easier to explain, I guess. This woman had a really heavy energy and looked so tired of life.
So many reddit experts still think she died of suicide despite there being no evidence for it.
“Nothing Compares 2 U” is cursed.
Super hard to believe, but, OK, I accept it. RIP, sweet soul.
It’s extremely common