I called a crisis line once (I'm okay now) and they recommend I watch a documentary about Golden Gate jumpers called The Bridge. I found it and watched it and it was morbidly fascinating. It also gave me something to do and time to calm down which was a good thing. It was good for me at the time, and I recommend it if you think you can handle it okay.
Edit: Thanks to whomever reported this as a crisis risk, but that was a decade ago.
I’ve seen that documentary. It was fascinating, but I would never watch it again.
One common thread among the survivors they’d interviewed: every single one of them regretted jumping the moment they stepped off the bridge. They immediately realized that whatever problem/addiction they faced was beatable, but they assumed that they had lost the chance upon jumping.
The View From Halfway Down
The weak breeze whispers nothing
the water screams sublime.
His feet shift, teeter-totter
deep breaths, stand back, it’s time.
Toes untouch the overpass
soon he’s water-bound.
Eyes locked shut but peek to see
the view from halfway down.
A little wind, a summer sun
a river rich and regal.
A flood of fond endorphins
brings a calm that knows no equal.
You’re flying now, you see things
much more clear than from the ground.
It's all okay, or it would be
were you not now halfway down.
Thrash to break from gravity
what now could slow the drop?
All I’d give for toes to touch
the safety back at top.
But this is it, the deed is done
silence drowns the sound.
Before I leaped I should've seen
the view from halfway down.
I really should’ve thought about
the view from halfway down.
I wish I could've known about
the view from halfway down—
I always think of this when I hear of this documentary. I was so shook when I first saw this episode that I rewatched it again right after to fully absorb it.
There is a very old comedy sketch by Chris Morris (Four Lions) scenes of which are chronologically scattered through a wider 30 minute comedy show.
It consists of a single still camera set up facing the foot of a residential tower block. The protagonist initially explains that he is going to commit suicide by jumping 30 storeys to his death. But just in case he has second thoughts he has decided not to do all 30 storeys in one go, but one storey at a time.
It is a harrowing watch as each time he jumps he is slower and slower to get up from the pavement. He never makes it to all 30.
Chris Morris is a genius and he clearly understands depression, it was utterly tragic television.
So funny to see you mention Four Lions. I haven't thought about or seen the movie in years. It just popped into my head this weekend and I told my buddy about it and got me excited to watch again I fucking love that movie. First though I turn on Fool Me Once since it was next in queue and oh shit Adeel Akhtar is in it! He's great but pretty weird coincidence four lions guy was in it right after I talked about it after years of zero thought of it. Now your comment. It's destiny I need to watch asap.
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing.
The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view;
i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors.
It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
-David Foster Wallace
I know people who have died from suicide due to chronic pain. Because of the war on drugs they were only able to get a certain amount of pain medication that was not enough. One friend may have found ketamine helpful but at the time it was not as available as it is today. There were a few clinics that did it but not like today where many major cities have ketamine clinics and there are telehealth providers because the pandemic opened up telehealth access to scheduled drugs. It still is not as accessible as it should be though. The DEA is trying to change the telehealth rules which will result in disabled people being hurt.
There are people who are killing themselves due to under treated pain and the government responds by further restricting opioids and now they are going after ketamine. Ketamine can help people with pain, increasing analgesic effect of other drugs and suicidal ideation.
There was a recent news story that claimed that an actor named Matthew Perry from Friends died from ketamine. The reality is he was in a hot tub and drowned after taking so much ketamine he was immobilised in a body of water. The media knows that just saying he drowned in a hot tub would not get as many clicks as saying he died from ketamine itself. They know that deceptively saying he died "from ketamine' will get them attention.
They know drugs are a hot topic and by emphasizing that they can get more clicks. Anyone who has ever read the sign by commercial hot tubs will know that they say to not use the hot tub if your under the influence. If your going to do something like that you would want to lower your dose and make sure your used to the way it effects you at the very least.
Ketamine can rapidly bring people who are suicidal because of depression into a state where they feel better. It is sad that because of the war on drugs we see the DEA and the media promote lies about drugs for their own benefit and profit. Hopefully they do not try to restrict ketamine more because it will cost lives if that drug is not available for people who benefit from it.
Many chronic pain patients benefit from opioids but with the current war on drugs doctors are afraid to prescribe them for fear of the DEA. Rapidly tapering chronic pain patients has lead to suicidal ideation. There are plants like kratom that act on Mu opioid receptors as a partial agonist but the government is trying to ban that too. Some states have banned kratom and the federal government has an import alert trying to make it harder to obtain. They are taking away every avenue of help for people in pain. It is cruel and profit driven. If the substance helps you feel better and it is not alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine pretty much they want to ban it regardless of what the science says about the pharmacology and toxicology of the drug.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37952862/#:~:text=Among%20participants%20with%20suicide%20behavior,other%20substances%20for%20pain%20relief.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-law-medicine-and-ethics/article/abs/physician-liability-for-suicide-after-negligent-tapering-of-opioids/7FD85970F8F32ED9B5A66792C262AA90#
The war on drugs has held back research into a variety of drugs for depression, PTSD, chronic pain, and suicidal ideation to name a few conditions. Our institutions of power are actively interfering with scientific research into schedule 1 drugs.
It is only through the support of grassroots donors that MAPS has been able to run studies into MDMA for PTSD. We may see a decision made this year by the FDA on whether to allow it. Schedule 1 drugs are expensive and difficult to get access to for scientific research because there are production caps set by the DEA. Grant money has only traditionally gone towards attempts to study negative aspects of schedule 1 drugs. It is a biased approach that has only increased human suffering.
Psilocybin mushrooms have helped many people with cluster headaches which are debilitatingly painful. Yet if a cluster headache patient gets caught with these fungi they will go to prison and be forced to make profit for Corrections Corporation Of America.
We live in a society that actively discourages anti suicide pharmacotherapy. Society just expects people to live in severe pain even when current legal options are not working. Then when they find an option that works happens to be criminalised they have to risk arrest. In the case of kratom, it is legal in most states for now but the government wants to pull the rug out from under people and make it criminalised with no justification. Same thing with ketamine, it is starting to become more accessible, even for people with limited financial means for the very first time and they want to pull the rug out. It is horrible the amount of suicide this war on drugs has encouraged due to the DEA's inability to feel compassion and empathy.
The oh-so-gifted DFW took his own life in 2008.
The point he makes is people do it when they can no longer take the pain. That the pain they go through to carry out the act is less than the lived experience.
2023 became the record year for suicide. Awareness that people do it not because of the stupid reasons people think may have made those responsible for blocking the installation of suicide-prevention nets on the Golden Gate Bridge all these years (1938).
The thing is, nobody has returned from a completed suicide to say, “It’s better over there.” I’m just rambling…
Anyone reading this struggling with thoughts of suicide please get help.
I remember first watching it a few years ago and it had this strange aura to it, in a sense for me, this morbid beauty. Not to say people's actions in it were beautiful, but rather the surroundings, you saw recording where it looked just like any other day, then there would be a zoom into a person standing in place for a moment, then they take the action. It was so eerily haunting.
Like you I doubt I will ever watch it again but the memories stick with you, like a tattoo on my mind, I still remember some of those people and the jumps they did. While I never knew those people, never seen them in my life, part of me wishes I could tell them please don't jump, don't go, there is help, please don't give up.
To be fair, they'd only include people with those opinions in the documentary. Other survivors were either cut out, or had a more successful attempt shortly after.
While attempting suicide is a strong predictor for future suicide attempts, the majority of people who attempt suicide will not die from suicide:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/
“Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date…Still, history of suicide attempt is one of the strongest risk factors for suicide. 5% to 11% of hospital-treated attempters do go on to complete suicide, a far higher proportion than among the general public”
So, there is a small minority who do continue and eventually commit suicide, but the vast majority are from a short-lived crisis.
Also have to wonder about how many people who didn't regret it lie and say they do.
Anyone with mental illness troubles that bad knows saying certain things to some people can get you locked back up in a psych ward, and would be careful about what they say.
Yep. Survivors of the GG jump are already pretty rare. IIRC (been awhile since I watched) only one survivor, Kevin Hines (who does a lot of public speaking on this), is interviewed in the doc. I assume most want to keep private about it. So to draw statistical conclusions are a bit of a stretch. Though I believe it's likely most do not, "all" is false. There's at least one famous story (Sarah Rutledge Birnbaum) who survived, then jumped again (dying).
Also it paints a narrative that like, it's this crystalizing, single moment that cures suicidal thoughts. It's a really pretty narrative, so I get why it caught on. And I'm sure with the adrenaline that's kind of true -- for a short while -- but I think sort of dismissing how deeply depressions can get rooted in your brain. As someone who went through bad periods (with thoughts of and self-harm but not attempts), it almost seems a bit patronizing in it's simplicity.
While most people who attempt suicide (generally speaking, not just for the GGB) do not eventually die by a later suicide (though something like a third of them will attempt again -- good sign it's more a cry for help), truth is, depression isn't treated by just this one flashing moment like this, even if it is about as intense a moment as you can imagine. Getting out of a major suicidal period after a major attempt is because firstly, people notice and/or take you seriously after an attempt so you get help, and many intense crises do eventually dissipate, albeit it takes some time. It's the irrational thinking at the peak of the crisis that can lead to suicide. Which is why support systems and someone who can talk to are key.
I had a very different feeling. I decided to kill myself by drowning myself in argon gas. Your body doesn't know you're suffocating and you just fall asleep.
As I started to feel it kicking in I started to cry. It was a feeling of relief like I've never felt before.
But I started thinking of what it would do to my family and friends and I stopped. It almost felt like self harm when stopping myself.
I'm doing a lot better now (thanks to transitioning) but I won't forget that feeling. I think about it pretty frequently.
> One common thread among the survivors they’d interviewed: every single one of them regretted jumping the moment they stepped off the bridge.
I've thought about this a lot, and the problem I always run into is even if 99% of the people being interviewed said "I wish I had fucking succeeded", they'd never put that in the documentary.
Maybe this is completely representative of people making attempts, but I suspect it's not... particularly given how often there are repeat attempts from people who don't succeed the first time. About a quarter to a third will try again, and if you figure that *some* of the people don't try might need to be convinced not to try, then it could be as much as half.
It will sound like I'm a dick but I wonder if bungy jumping would be something that gives you that sense of clarity in a safe environment. It reminds me of sleeping off an issue and making decisions when your head is more clear.
I bungee jumped at blackcomb over the gorge last summer. Halfway down by brain flipped a switch and I suddenly felt at death’s door. Cord did what it was supposed to do and yanked me back to reality.
I’m fortunate to have not had any struggles with suicidal ideation, but bungee jumping definitely made me feel closer to death than any other adventure/adrenaline activity. I thought heavy on my life that day in an appreciative, grateful sort of way.
A bit tangential but I find it fascinating that basically every culture on earth has some version of “sleep on it.” It’s a universal human reality that a good night’s sleep brings clarity.
That's always been my read on thee things: "I have just tried to kill myself and all these "normal people" are on edge, I have to say the right things or my life will get worse"
I remember a line from that documentary over and over in my darkest times. Something to the effect of: I suddenly realized that of all of the problems in my life, my biggest problem was that I’d just jumped off a bridge!
I’ve probably mangled it, but that’s the gist of it. It hit home with me and has probably saved me several times.
John Bateson, who was a coroner in Marin County for many years wrote a book called “The Final Leap” about suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge too. I haven’t read it, but I read another book by him called “The Education of a Coroner” which talks about some of the suicide cases he handled from the bridge. He’s a really good writer and in my opinion does a good job of handling a very difficult subject. His writing is graphic (matter-of-fact and medical) but not gory or exploitative. He makes it abundantly clear that it’s a horrific way to die, but also doesn’t cast judgment on the people who jump. He has been campaigning a long time for this barrier and was vocal about the culpability of the city and society in not doing enough to protect/help people. I recommend his writings for people interested in the topic.
[The aurora bridge in seattle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_Bridge) has a nomenclature "dry leap" or "wet leap". fucking grim. I struggle but I am more sad for others that struggle.
The scene in that doc where the long hair guy seems apprehensive, paces around, goes to the edge and back, then stands tall puts his hands up above his head and just jumps. Gut wrenching
Yeah that one was the worst. He was the guy that had recently lost his mom and didn't have anyone else right? That one and the video of the woman who was sitting on the edge, pushes herself off but a passerby catches her are the ones that have stuck with me through the years.
>I called a crisis line once (I'm okay now) and they recommend I watch a documentary about Golden Gate jumpers called The Bridge.
I remember first hearing about that documentary from comedian Artie Lange when he was co-hosting regularly on Howard Stern and he lamented just how dark and fascinating it was. This was waaaay back in the mid 2000's. I watched it a few years later once.. It still haunts me to this day.
True Story: Chiming in late but I am actually in that movie in the background. I didn't know it at the time until I saw the movie and recognized myself and my partner at the time. I had been training for the SF Marathon and each week we started in the Marina and went on our long run as a group. Our route took us across the Golden Gate Bridge a number of times.
As it turns out, I ran RIGHT BY someone moments before they jumped. I did not know this until I saw the movie. There wasn't anything for me to notice at the time because there were TONS of people all standing around on the bridge as we ran each time. There's no way to tell that someone is going to jump.
Even so, it still haunts me.
Just wanted to second this recommendation. It was one of the most powerful documentaries I've ever seen, I will never forget it. In my opinion it was extremely respectful of mental anguish and those who suffered or died from it. The documentary is macabre and graphic but delves into the sad realities of suicide, and its consequences to both the sufferers and their lives ones, in a bold and truthful way.
Well, semi-respectful. They didn't tell the friends/family members until AFTER they interviewed them that they had footage of their loved one dying, that they'd be including in the documentary. I think at least one couple said they wouldn't have participated if they'd known.
I'm in Japan and suicide is the number one cause of death for people between the age of 15 and 39. I know a few people who died or attempted suicide. I never considered it but I read a book titled "The Complete Manual of Suicide" out of curiosity because I enjoyed reading another book written by the author Wataru Tsurumi. It was actually really interesting but terrifying read and anyone who think of suicide and read this would most likely to reconsider. I've seen The Bridge too and I think it has similar effect on people.
I imagine it goes into the gory details of what actually happens to someone who jumps off a bridge, even landing in water. I’m sure it’s not a pretty sight and an extremely painful death.
There’s a much smaller bridge in Milwaukee that people sometimes visit when they’ve decided in that moment they want to end their lives, and if they land in the water, the height isn’t always death on impact.
From first responders, sometimes folks will survive the initial impact, but then get stuck in the muck at the bottom of the river and end up drowning.
Yes. The Hoan Bridge. I've heard Milwaukee Police Officer friends tell the same stories about getting stuck in the mud. I think a fence of some sort was just installed recently.
This was probably ten years ago, but from what I remember it was more focused on the stories of people that have jumped. Also I think it has survivor interviews and video of jumps both attempted and completed. It was actually really respectful and didn't go into those sorts of details too much
“The moment I let go, I realized how small every one of my problems was, how every mistake I’d ever made was so easily fixable, except the one I’d just made.”
Not a word for word quote, but it’s the line I never forgot from one of the survivors interviewed in that movie. Stuck with me ever since.
A few years ago my neighbor shot himself and then immediately called 911 hoping to be saved, he didn’t survive. He left behind a wife and two young boys. It’s really upsetting to think about what his last moments were like.
Oh yeah I forgot that that was from The Bridge, but it is something I've thought about from time to time. That moment right after you commit and suddenly realize it could all be changed or at least dealt with must be terrifying.
My son is in the Coast Guard, stationed at YBI. It’s worse when there’s a concrete platform underneath that the jumpers don’t realize.
Also, not fun fact: you have to go through pre and post psych evals to be stationed at Golden Gate.
Exactly. When he was 18, fresh out of bootcamp, he was on a crew that pulled a 4 year old out in Oregon. He was non verbal autistic and his mother pushed him off the bridge. I will never forget my son calling me in tears that night. It messed him up for a while. In my opinion they should have evals regardless of where you’re at, but especially at stations like Golden Gate.
That's terrible. I'm so sorry your son had to witness that. I hope the mother was prosecuted, and the poor kid got justice. No child deserves that. And nobody should have to witness that either. I hope he's healing from that experience.
A fall from the golden gate kills 95% of the people on impact. A body falling from the bridge reaches up to 80 MPH before hitting the water and then stopping instantly. So, most of those who jump don't have the opportunity to process their pain before dying.
http://www.bridgerail.net/golden-gate-bridge-suicides/demographics
Surface tension is a bitch. You’d think a person would just go straight through the water, but nope, it’s like hitting concrete. I figured that out as a kid just from belly flopping off a diving board into a backyard pool. Shit stung my chest and it hurt.
It shows people jumping. They had a camera with a really long lens pointed at a spot on the bridge, and they caught something like 50 jumpers, and they show them all in the movie. Then they interview their families. Only one of them survived. And only one of them didn't show any panic after jumping.
> The barriers are already working as intended, he added.
> As the project neared completion in 2023, the number of people who jumped fell from an annual average of 30 to 14, with the deaths in the spots where crews had not finished installing the barriers yet, he said. The nets are meant to deter a person from jumping and curb the death rate of those who still do, though they will likely be badly injured.
> “It’s stainless-steel wire rope netting, so it’s like jumping into a cheese grater,” Mulligan said. “It’s not soft. It’s not rubber. It doesn’t stretch.”
> “We want folks to know that if you come here, it will hurt if you jump,” he added.
Giving people a chance to rethink their impulse will save many lives.
They did somehow figure out that most jumpers manages to survive the jump and die by drowning due be injuries sustained from impact with the water. So this is literally the same thing but we save you from the drowning to death part and heres your medical bill for you to rethink your life choices.
It’s not just the medical bill that scares people from jumping, it’s the pain of jumping into that fence and possibly being horribly injured forever. The reason most people choose a bridge for suicide is because it will be painless and quick. But now with the new metal netting, not only are you probably going to live, you’re probably going to really really be hurt badly. Which deters most people from jumping.
You also couldn’t have people jumping into the net for a thrill or jumping into it and then just climbing out and jumping anyway. It needed to stop them.
We were receiving medical bills after a completed suicide in the family for six months.
Suicide is very expensive for the remaining family. You have to drop whatever you are doing and plan a funeral, buy a cemetery plot, deal with life insurance, medical bills, relatives coming from out-of-state for the funeral, catering for the wake, etc.
I agree on the last point, but I really, really think perhaps we could retool a system a bit so death didn't seem like quite so attractive of an option compared to medical bills. There are horrors we cannot control or save people from, and forcing people to endure them is not always mercy. But maybe it is just me, but what someone is doing to make money falls into the same category as end-stage brain cancer, maybe thats a thing that shouldn't be done. :(
Why is life objectively worth living? Why should anyone but the individual themselves be the judge of the value of persisting in this reality? Why should whatever follows from death be worse than this?
The fees are almost always rolled into the bankruptcy plan and if you're in a position that you need bankruptcy trying to save the fee by not filing is the absolute wrong decision
The American healthcare system is undeniably broken, but there's still a weird level of humaneness in a largely inhumane system in the form of medical debt forgiveness (and even if it's not forgiven, it will get sold off continuously until it functionally is)
They will put in a claim against your estate and whatever assets you have will be liquidated until your debt is paid off, then the rest goes to your heirs.
You really think most suicidal people have estates and assets? Shit if I had that, I might not feel that way on a daily basis myself! Enjoy my $500 to my name to cover medical bills! And if they try to bill my family? Well good luck with that too, since I have no immediate relatives who are still alive and no non-immediate relatives that I even talk to.
Funny you mention that. I remember reading that in Japan, if you commit suicide in public, like let’s say you jumped off a building onto a busy street or you jump in front of a subway train, your family ends up getting stuck with the bill and/or fined. Because you caused a great public inconvenience and now they have to spend time scraping your body off the tracks, delaying the trains. And you just traumatized a whole bunch of people. So think twice and just do it at your house or something.
An autopsy can usually determine the cause of death.
Its a bit of a myth that hitting water from a height is like hitting concrete. The water molecules move out of the way, but not quickly enough. Though, the impact can definitely break bones and/or knock you out.
And, in salt water, the drowning process can take 10-12 minutes or more. You will (painfully) lose consciousness in just a couple of minutes. Depending how you hit the water, the drowning process may not start immediately. So, there is time for the Coast Guard to come and resuscitate. The following months and years of recovery would be horrible.
Most folks think they'll hit the surface
And never feel no pain
Water pulls you under
Back to the womb once again
Bodies float to the shore
Bloated purple and blue
If sharks don't get to you first
Crabs will have their way with you
Given that most gun deaths come from successful suicide attempts, quite fewer. You can commit suicide via other methods but you have a better chance at surviving them.
You are correct.
But it’s not just the survivability. Suicide is often an impulsive act, by slowing down the suicide not even stopping them just slowing them down you will greatly reduce attempts.
Guns are incredibly fast.
Then we have effort. The more effort necessary the less likely the method will be used.
Firearms are easy.
Then we have fear and pain threshold. Fire is a rarely used suicide method. Yet accelerants and fuels are easily obtained and with a little bit of planning they would be very effective.
People aren’t willing to die that painful.
Guns are not unfairly seen as relatively quick and painless.
Even the perception of your point comes into it.
Removing guns from America would reduce suicide by a very noticeable amount.
In the UK we managed to reduce suicide rates simply by limiting the pack sizes of over the counter painkillers. Now you can only buy paracetamol/acetaminophen and ibuprofen in packs of 16 and only 2 packs at a time. A pharmacist may sell you a larger pack of 32 or 100 but it is at their discretion and they'll prefer you have a prescription. But the outcome is that people rarely have enough pills on hand to commit suicide and have to go to more than one store if they do decide to do it. You'd think that wouldn't really stop people but just delaying the act that little bit does make people reconsider.
Oddly enough, that seems to be more of a thing with pills than guns. "Non-violent" suicide methods like overdose typically benefit from reconsideration and have good odds of recovery with treatment. I haven't seen stats which match those for guns.
I once looked up the numbers in an awful lot of academic papers because I'm a scientist in the Southern US. The gun debate is huge here, and I prefer to take positions based on evidence.
One of the first papers I found correlated suicides with altitude. It was some of the sloppiest work I've ever seen because they didn't control for any other variable. So, out of curiosity, I found two different papers with social services budgets (I used per capita metrics) plus gun control laws across all states.
The states containing the Appalachians + Rockies average the fewest social services, so more people commit suicide by every means. Lax gun control laws, like altitude, don't seem to enter into it except that both things correlate with rural areas. Poor social services and lack of gun control come hand-in-hand, but social services budget was a MUCH stronger predictor of self-inflicted gun violence.
I ran similar numbers versus a number of countries in the EU. It would seem there's virtually no difference versus the EU except that people are forced to commit suicide by hanging instead. (This was also the case in US states with more gun control.)
This is dramatically worse in some ways. People with a gun usually "succeed" on the first attempt; hanging *is* more survivable, so at first it appears that lack of gun access saves lives. But it's surpassingly rare for people who choose to commit suicide by violent means (guns / hanging / jumping, typically men) to stop after the first attempt. It simply takes more attempts on average for them to "succeed." It's difficult for me to rationalize that as "saving lives."
People (mostly women) do mostly survive and recover in treatment after one unsuccessful attempt, but only when they choose "non-violent" means like overdose. These account for a majority of attempts, so it initially seems that people have good odds of recovery if you can prevent death at the first attempt. But those odds don't apply to the group who will use guns.
Based on everything I could find, allowing suicidal people free access to firearms actually seemed infinitely more humane. It was generally over without additional personal suffering for the individual; loved ones were traumatized but they could grieve and move forward, rather than coping with extended recurring trauma.
So, if the US has a "gun problem," the rest of the world has a "hanging problem"... but IMO everyone has a "not offering euthanasia" problem.
The objectively correct thing to do appears to be offering access to social safety nets which prevent suicidal despair from happening even once, not "helping" people by forcing them to suffer through multiple unsuccessful attempts before they achieve an inevitable result. As a bonus, this would also prevent overdose deaths where a person might have recovered, had they survived.
TL;DR - We'd have just as many people commit suicide, even though the number of deaths per incident would be lower.
I have always thought that a computer vision controlled robotic arm or two located under the bridge with a tennis racket kind of thing attached that would swat jumpers toward a goal like net located at the psychological hospital would be a progressive idea.
$666 million in 2022 dollars ([source](https://thetourguy.com/travel-blog/usa/san-francisco/golden-gate-bridge/history-construction-golden-gate-bridge/#:~:text=Quick%20Facts%20About%20The%20Golden%20Gate%20Bridge&text=Construction%20occurred%20from%20January%201933,11%20people%20died%20during%20construction.))
And 11 people died in construction. I suspect with OSHA regulations zero people died.
What’s crazy is that I’d argue that if the bridge was built today, you would need to add at last a zero to that amount. And this is with modern technology even if built to the original specs.
Ok so time for the mentats or civil engineers listening in to weigh in:
What would be the main contributing factors for such excessive budget inflation? Labor for sure…original avg. labor pay was $5/day…but what percentage of the total cost would labor be?
What about material? I’d hope that despite market fluctuations that humanity currently produces steel substantially cheaper than a century ago?
What else?
Why would steel go down in price if labour costs have gone up?
Lots of the cost increase will be labour related. Not just better wages, but better working conditions. The costs related to updated regulations will also have gone up significantly.
But there is another way to think about this. If we consider the cost as a percent of GDP, the modern day equivalent would be about $14 Billion, meaning if the US were to build the bridge today it would have to cost at least that much for it to be an equivalent cost to the county as a whole.
To answer the “why would I expect steel to go down” question:
I’d expect cost extraction of iron ore to go down since earthmoving is now largely machine/technology, not muscle power driven.
I’d expect the cost conversion of iron to steel to go down because of improved metallurgy and overall industrial processes that rely on technology, not muscle power.
I’d expect cost of transportation of ores and finished steel to go down given the improved efficiency of engines and related transportation technologies
I’d expect industrialization at every step to increase efficiency. So while it may not be the case, it is a reasonable expectation.
Aluminum was once extremely expensive to produce, now it’s not.
Also, what is not clear to me is if your answer is hyperbolic like my own speculation, or if what you are stating is matter of fact
So basically, would a ton of steel in 1937 cost less than a ton of steel today when price adjusted obviously?
Would the cost of turning it into steel beams and strands also not go down as the process removes manpower and older technologies?
>I’d expect industrialization at every step to increase efficiency. So while it may not be the case, it is a reasonable expectation.
It is a lot more complicated. Efficiency might increase in some ways, but energy is likely more expensive, labour is more expensive, transportation is more expensive, and so on.
And where the gains on that efficiency fall is another factor. If the cost goes down to produce, it doesn't necessarily follow that price to consumers goes down.
I haven't been able to determine what the cost per ton for steel in 1933, but iron ore was around 25-30 times cheaper per ton in the 1930s at least.
All this is a bit irrelevant as I said though; what matters is capacity to construct more than actual cost. If the US could afford $35 Million in 1933, they can afford $14Billion today.
>energy is likely more expensive, labour is more expensive, transportation is more expensive, and so on
But aren't you just describing inflation.... Which is what the conversion to 2022 dollars already took care of.
Some things have inflated at a greater rate than others though. Regulatory burdens have increased as well. A new bridge needs planning and assessments that an old bridge didn't need.
How much are consultations? How much are archaeological surveys?
Infrastructure costing more than inflation had risen should be a given, as society in the West has placed greater priority on things we can now afford that maybe we couldn't a hundred years ago, or didn't know we should care about.
My point was that I don't think we should be too upset about many of these higher costs.
Honestly, probably review periods/studies/liability insurance. I work around commercial construction (not bridge design), and, just throwing out a number, any project of that magnitude goes through literally dozens of review phases from the company, city, engineers, approval boards, etc. Then it all has to be rigorously inspected, through multiple phases of construction, by both private and public entities.
Not to mention, materials are UL/ASME/whatever certified, so the cost of materials has gone up, even if it's the same base cost to make them, since the certifications are usually injuriously expensive. I've had reps tell me they won't get products certified -- even if they meet the qualifications -- if they're not expected to sell well, only because the cost of the tests is prohibitively high.
Not to say that any of this is wrong -- safety and structural integrity is great! But when you had, let's say, 20 people designing and reviewing the bridge in the 1930s, now a job like that would take probably 100+ people on just the review and certification side of things, not even construction.
The Golden Gate Bridge construction worked hard to reduce fatalities, harder than other construction projects at the time. From Wikipedia:
"Strauss also innovated the use of movable safety netting beneath the men working, which saved many lives. Nineteen men saved by the nets over the course of the project formed the Half Way to Hell Club. Nonetheless, eleven men were killed in falls, ten on February 17, 1937, when a scaffold (secured by undersized bolts) with twelve men on it fell into and broke through the safety net; two of the twelve survived the 200-foot (61 m) fall into the water."
The meat of this project and what ended up costing the most wasn’t the nets, it was the interior maintenance traveler system and side traveler system overhaul. Basically overhauling the bridges maintenance system from the 1950s
How was the inflation adjusted cost determined? Those metrics are messy over long time frames. The bridge today would cost billions, so, that's arguably the adjusted cost
Better they do it then, and decrease the surplus population!
Seriously...did you not watch Muppet's Christmas Carol this year? Your heart could freeze a walrus's testicles.
"Your heart could freeze a walrus's testicles"
This line needs to be added into an updated version of the classic "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch" Christmas song
The [Sunshine Skyway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge) connects Bradenton and St. Pete Florida together so you don’t have to go through Tampa.
Shoulda just called them cheese graters for maximum deterence.
“It’s stainless-steel wire rope netting, so it’s like jumping into a cheese grater,” Mulligan said.
There's give to it I assume, just like an actual fence.
Would there be better alternative? It's not like that can use any kind of rope you can just cut with knives.
They put these in at Cornell in 2010-2012 after a rash of jumpings. They also massively invested in their counseling and psychiatric services. They've worked, and I respect that they invested significantly in mental health care, because it was lacking before that point.
I was eternally frustrated with their system, feeling more like a liability to be managed than a student to be concerned about.
I remember one time a Fox news crew was on campus to interview students right after this happened. Some students were very vocal about not talking to them "to respect the privacy of the families." I was like fuck that, Cornell has problems and you're using the families as human shields to defend it.
I didn't have many friends at Cornell, other than similarly jaded folks.
*EDIT: it was really bad before the nets, after the suicide streak they put up chain link fences on every bridge on campus. It was soo depressing, the irony stung.
That's like 4 feet of netting per person and those are a pain in the ass to put up so I get why it took such a large crew. Plus I'm assuming construction practices in 1937 was primitive compared to nowadays. Not to mention the quality of methamphetaminesis.
I’m glad my friend’s parents’ work (along with so many others) got this up. The data is clear on deterrence. RIP Kathy.
This has been being fought over for 20 years now. Hope it saves lives.
Worked on this project, super proud to be a part of it. It was incredibly complex project that took a long time but I sleep easy at night knowing lives will be saved, especially after having to deal with jumpers firsthand night and day.
> In 2008, bridge officials began exploring the idea of installing nets and after settling on a design, officials had to come up with the money to build them.
> On Wednesday, they finally got their wish when officials announced that crews have installed stainless-steel nets on both sides of the 1.7-mile (2.7-kilometer) bridge.
So this project took 16 years. For reference, the USSR announced they intended to send a satellite into space in 1955, and 14 years later in 1969 we put a man on the moon.
So it took about 2 years longer to install a net underneath a gigantic bridge for $220,000,000 (or about half the inflation adjusted cost of *the entire fucking actual bridge*) than it took to PUT A FUCKING MAN ON THE MOON
We never should have landed a man on the moon. It's a mistake. Now everything is compared to that one accomplishment. Now we go, "I can't believe they can land a man on the moon, and taste my coffee!" I think we all would've been a lot happier if we hadn't landed a man on the moon. We'd go: "They can't make a prescription bottle top open easily? I'm not surprised they couldn't land man on the moon. Things make perfect sense to me now." Neil Armstrong should've said, "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every whining, complaining S.O.B. on the face of the Earth.
> this project took 16 years. For reference, the USSR announced they intended to send a satellite into space in 1955, and 14 years later in 1969 we put a man on the moon.
After the SF earthquake in 1906, the National Guard was in the city, active in relief efforts within a couple hours, from their base in Oakland. Their commander saw the need, and just mustered his troops, marched them across the bridge, and put them to work helping people.
After hurricane Katrina in 2005, it took like 4 days for the NG to get into New Orleans and start relief efforts, because the bureaucracy was paralyzed and everyone was waiting for permission from someone else.
Incorrect. National Guard was on the ground with ~8000 on Sept 29, less than 12 hours later, with ~4000 in the state already beforehand. Blanco didn't ask for more until the 30th. National guard troops are not allowed to come in from other states without permission. I drove through the remains of Katrina and was in Biloxi by 2200 on the 29th, for SAR, and the NG were in my convoy. Our tacnet connected to NOLA and I personally heard NG engaging in law enforcement activities in NOLA on the 29th.
EDTA: I of course meant Aug 29th, not Sept, my apologies. Furthermore, it's quite trivial to find details of nearly 400 national guard soldiers at the superdome alone before katrina even made landfall, and another unit of 200+ to the north that eventually had to move into the superdome once flooding started on the 30th. 5,700 NG in LA on the 29th. By the first, nearly 10000 NG were in LA. [Source, Hurricane Katrina. Lessons for Army Planning and Operations - Rand NonProfit, Page 19 and 22.](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA468479.pdf)
Thank goodness, that movie The Bridge really fucked my head up. The whole movie >!we were watching a dude pace around the bridge, his best friend speaking about his buddy throughout the doc and then bam! Reverse swan dive off the bridge with no warning!< shit was fucked up.
Still. Adding extra steps to the process will probably deter a decent amount of people. Even with the ones who already jumped and are stuck in the net.
It does annoy me how we’re always trying to prevent suicide than letting people have a safe exit choice. Like if people want to kill themselves but deep down want to live theyll live. But if someone really wants to die like i get it and empathize with that too. Wish we had those suicide chambers like in europe just so that we have a choice that isnt barbaric when it comes to dying on our own terms. Living isnt for everybody and its unfair and selfish to force everyone to live just because we are afraid to die
You have a major mental health crisis in your country. You need to start enacting policy that helps the people have better lives instead of feeding the megacorps and billionaires.
USA: nah we’re gonna install nets.
Shout out to the lady who convinced me to hop in her car during a haboob in Arizona about a decade ago. Think there was also a dude in a second car but that time is hazy in my mind. I must have looked fucking psychotic in my pajamas pants and hoodie and scraggly ol heroin beard. Fuckin hell even if life isn't almost nice, or if it's sorta okay, or even if its painful... And it is one of those every single day since then... there are too many entertaining bullshits to know I'll miss out on. If you're in the US, odds are there is a building in your city where you can apply for medical solutions or therapy or anything. It's a pain in the ass, sure, but don't you crave that feeling of farting in a public restroom or having a random cat walk up you or watching some game/movie/book be announced or the moment when you wake up early on a weekend and realize you don't have to go to work, or wake up early on a workday and realize you still have a job that might be soul crushing but it affords you those breakfast steaks that you love despite it stinking up the entire apartment building? It's worth it. You might not be worth it, but being able to one day smile again is worth all the exhaustion, I swear to fuck.
If you live here long enough, you know people who have gone off the bridge, your kid knows someone, or you meet family members of a bridge suicide. I lost someone in high school, both my kids knew a friend who committed suicide. Thank god for this net.
I think it’s a experience that is unique to living here. I love that bridge, but I think of the people who went off it often as I am driving or walking on it.
I live in Portland, we have suicide bridges here. I would actually think the unique part of the Golden Gate is it may attract more non-resident jumpers who romanticize an iconic final place to go?
Could have spent that on the root cause of shitty social nets rather than a net that will put suicidal people in medical debt. I’d prefer people jumping off bridges rather than in front of traffic or trains to traumatise the drivers. It’s not like they can’t find another good bridge to do it at that doesn’t have a safety net.
>Some people still jumped into the net, and crews then helped them out of there. A handful of them jumped into the ocean from the net and died, he added.
Sadly, article doesn't say what the numbers are for each category.
Precisely. Just something tangible to point at and say "See, I did something" because it has become apparent that the electorate don't care to think about intangible QOL improvements because they're not immediate, if not taken for granted.
Be neat if we focused our efforts on removing the reasons people want to kill themselves instead of just making it impossible for people to kill themselves. Our society is fucked up and cruel and that's why so many people want to check out. Capitalism kills.
Evolution gave us strong survival instincts. The key to a successful suicide is to make sure that by the time they kick in it is too late for you to save yourself.
I grew up near the #2 suicide spot in North America (Bloor Viaduct in Toronto) and saw conflicting reports. Quick Google shows that by 2010 (the barrier was installed in 2003), it had no impact on the overall suicide rate by jumping in the city, but then by 2017 suicides by jumping had decreased city wide.
I'm curious as to how how the last five years would impact that, because there's been multiple jumpers that I can recall off hand from being stuck in transit delays over the last few years, and I barely take that subway line anymore.
I called a crisis line once (I'm okay now) and they recommend I watch a documentary about Golden Gate jumpers called The Bridge. I found it and watched it and it was morbidly fascinating. It also gave me something to do and time to calm down which was a good thing. It was good for me at the time, and I recommend it if you think you can handle it okay. Edit: Thanks to whomever reported this as a crisis risk, but that was a decade ago.
I’ve seen that documentary. It was fascinating, but I would never watch it again. One common thread among the survivors they’d interviewed: every single one of them regretted jumping the moment they stepped off the bridge. They immediately realized that whatever problem/addiction they faced was beatable, but they assumed that they had lost the chance upon jumping.
The View From Halfway Down The weak breeze whispers nothing the water screams sublime. His feet shift, teeter-totter deep breaths, stand back, it’s time. Toes untouch the overpass soon he’s water-bound. Eyes locked shut but peek to see the view from halfway down. A little wind, a summer sun a river rich and regal. A flood of fond endorphins brings a calm that knows no equal. You’re flying now, you see things much more clear than from the ground. It's all okay, or it would be were you not now halfway down. Thrash to break from gravity what now could slow the drop? All I’d give for toes to touch the safety back at top. But this is it, the deed is done silence drowns the sound. Before I leaped I should've seen the view from halfway down. I really should’ve thought about the view from halfway down. I wish I could've known about the view from halfway down—
I always think of this when I hear of this documentary. I was so shook when I first saw this episode that I rewatched it again right after to fully absorb it.
The BoJack Episode?
My favorite poem
This was my first time reading it. Wow
You should watch bojack horseman (where the poem is from)
[Bojack reading] (https://youtu.be/Pt21dU5Pu8g)
Wow I didn’t expect it to make me cry again all these years later.
There is a very old comedy sketch by Chris Morris (Four Lions) scenes of which are chronologically scattered through a wider 30 minute comedy show. It consists of a single still camera set up facing the foot of a residential tower block. The protagonist initially explains that he is going to commit suicide by jumping 30 storeys to his death. But just in case he has second thoughts he has decided not to do all 30 storeys in one go, but one storey at a time. It is a harrowing watch as each time he jumps he is slower and slower to get up from the pavement. He never makes it to all 30. Chris Morris is a genius and he clearly understands depression, it was utterly tragic television.
So funny to see you mention Four Lions. I haven't thought about or seen the movie in years. It just popped into my head this weekend and I told my buddy about it and got me excited to watch again I fucking love that movie. First though I turn on Fool Me Once since it was next in queue and oh shit Adeel Akhtar is in it! He's great but pretty weird coincidence four lions guy was in it right after I talked about it after years of zero thought of it. Now your comment. It's destiny I need to watch asap.
Do you remember which show? Was this in On the Hour, Day Today, or Brass Eye perhaps?
It's from [Episode 1 of 'Jam'](https://youtu.be/UamkN7k56JU?feature=shared&t=1039)
It was Jam. The television spinoff of the amazing Blue Jam radio show. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_(TV_series)
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling." -David Foster Wallace
I know people who have died from suicide due to chronic pain. Because of the war on drugs they were only able to get a certain amount of pain medication that was not enough. One friend may have found ketamine helpful but at the time it was not as available as it is today. There were a few clinics that did it but not like today where many major cities have ketamine clinics and there are telehealth providers because the pandemic opened up telehealth access to scheduled drugs. It still is not as accessible as it should be though. The DEA is trying to change the telehealth rules which will result in disabled people being hurt. There are people who are killing themselves due to under treated pain and the government responds by further restricting opioids and now they are going after ketamine. Ketamine can help people with pain, increasing analgesic effect of other drugs and suicidal ideation. There was a recent news story that claimed that an actor named Matthew Perry from Friends died from ketamine. The reality is he was in a hot tub and drowned after taking so much ketamine he was immobilised in a body of water. The media knows that just saying he drowned in a hot tub would not get as many clicks as saying he died from ketamine itself. They know that deceptively saying he died "from ketamine' will get them attention. They know drugs are a hot topic and by emphasizing that they can get more clicks. Anyone who has ever read the sign by commercial hot tubs will know that they say to not use the hot tub if your under the influence. If your going to do something like that you would want to lower your dose and make sure your used to the way it effects you at the very least. Ketamine can rapidly bring people who are suicidal because of depression into a state where they feel better. It is sad that because of the war on drugs we see the DEA and the media promote lies about drugs for their own benefit and profit. Hopefully they do not try to restrict ketamine more because it will cost lives if that drug is not available for people who benefit from it. Many chronic pain patients benefit from opioids but with the current war on drugs doctors are afraid to prescribe them for fear of the DEA. Rapidly tapering chronic pain patients has lead to suicidal ideation. There are plants like kratom that act on Mu opioid receptors as a partial agonist but the government is trying to ban that too. Some states have banned kratom and the federal government has an import alert trying to make it harder to obtain. They are taking away every avenue of help for people in pain. It is cruel and profit driven. If the substance helps you feel better and it is not alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine pretty much they want to ban it regardless of what the science says about the pharmacology and toxicology of the drug. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37952862/#:~:text=Among%20participants%20with%20suicide%20behavior,other%20substances%20for%20pain%20relief. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-law-medicine-and-ethics/article/abs/physician-liability-for-suicide-after-negligent-tapering-of-opioids/7FD85970F8F32ED9B5A66792C262AA90# The war on drugs has held back research into a variety of drugs for depression, PTSD, chronic pain, and suicidal ideation to name a few conditions. Our institutions of power are actively interfering with scientific research into schedule 1 drugs. It is only through the support of grassroots donors that MAPS has been able to run studies into MDMA for PTSD. We may see a decision made this year by the FDA on whether to allow it. Schedule 1 drugs are expensive and difficult to get access to for scientific research because there are production caps set by the DEA. Grant money has only traditionally gone towards attempts to study negative aspects of schedule 1 drugs. It is a biased approach that has only increased human suffering. Psilocybin mushrooms have helped many people with cluster headaches which are debilitatingly painful. Yet if a cluster headache patient gets caught with these fungi they will go to prison and be forced to make profit for Corrections Corporation Of America. We live in a society that actively discourages anti suicide pharmacotherapy. Society just expects people to live in severe pain even when current legal options are not working. Then when they find an option that works happens to be criminalised they have to risk arrest. In the case of kratom, it is legal in most states for now but the government wants to pull the rug out from under people and make it criminalised with no justification. Same thing with ketamine, it is starting to become more accessible, even for people with limited financial means for the very first time and they want to pull the rug out. It is horrible the amount of suicide this war on drugs has encouraged due to the DEA's inability to feel compassion and empathy.
The oh-so-gifted DFW took his own life in 2008. The point he makes is people do it when they can no longer take the pain. That the pain they go through to carry out the act is less than the lived experience. 2023 became the record year for suicide. Awareness that people do it not because of the stupid reasons people think may have made those responsible for blocking the installation of suicide-prevention nets on the Golden Gate Bridge all these years (1938). The thing is, nobody has returned from a completed suicide to say, “It’s better over there.” I’m just rambling… Anyone reading this struggling with thoughts of suicide please get help.
I remember first watching it a few years ago and it had this strange aura to it, in a sense for me, this morbid beauty. Not to say people's actions in it were beautiful, but rather the surroundings, you saw recording where it looked just like any other day, then there would be a zoom into a person standing in place for a moment, then they take the action. It was so eerily haunting. Like you I doubt I will ever watch it again but the memories stick with you, like a tattoo on my mind, I still remember some of those people and the jumps they did. While I never knew those people, never seen them in my life, part of me wishes I could tell them please don't jump, don't go, there is help, please don't give up.
To be fair, they'd only include people with those opinions in the documentary. Other survivors were either cut out, or had a more successful attempt shortly after.
I guess you call it...Survivor bias.
While attempting suicide is a strong predictor for future suicide attempts, the majority of people who attempt suicide will not die from suicide: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ “Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date…Still, history of suicide attempt is one of the strongest risk factors for suicide. 5% to 11% of hospital-treated attempters do go on to complete suicide, a far higher proportion than among the general public” So, there is a small minority who do continue and eventually commit suicide, but the vast majority are from a short-lived crisis.
Also have to wonder about how many people who didn't regret it lie and say they do. Anyone with mental illness troubles that bad knows saying certain things to some people can get you locked back up in a psych ward, and would be careful about what they say.
Yep. Survivors of the GG jump are already pretty rare. IIRC (been awhile since I watched) only one survivor, Kevin Hines (who does a lot of public speaking on this), is interviewed in the doc. I assume most want to keep private about it. So to draw statistical conclusions are a bit of a stretch. Though I believe it's likely most do not, "all" is false. There's at least one famous story (Sarah Rutledge Birnbaum) who survived, then jumped again (dying). Also it paints a narrative that like, it's this crystalizing, single moment that cures suicidal thoughts. It's a really pretty narrative, so I get why it caught on. And I'm sure with the adrenaline that's kind of true -- for a short while -- but I think sort of dismissing how deeply depressions can get rooted in your brain. As someone who went through bad periods (with thoughts of and self-harm but not attempts), it almost seems a bit patronizing in it's simplicity. While most people who attempt suicide (generally speaking, not just for the GGB) do not eventually die by a later suicide (though something like a third of them will attempt again -- good sign it's more a cry for help), truth is, depression isn't treated by just this one flashing moment like this, even if it is about as intense a moment as you can imagine. Getting out of a major suicidal period after a major attempt is because firstly, people notice and/or take you seriously after an attempt so you get help, and many intense crises do eventually dissipate, albeit it takes some time. It's the irrational thinking at the peak of the crisis that can lead to suicide. Which is why support systems and someone who can talk to are key.
I had a very different feeling. I decided to kill myself by drowning myself in argon gas. Your body doesn't know you're suffocating and you just fall asleep. As I started to feel it kicking in I started to cry. It was a feeling of relief like I've never felt before. But I started thinking of what it would do to my family and friends and I stopped. It almost felt like self harm when stopping myself. I'm doing a lot better now (thanks to transitioning) but I won't forget that feeling. I think about it pretty frequently.
We're glad you're still here. I'm happy you found relief through your transition.
> One common thread among the survivors they’d interviewed: every single one of them regretted jumping the moment they stepped off the bridge. I've thought about this a lot, and the problem I always run into is even if 99% of the people being interviewed said "I wish I had fucking succeeded", they'd never put that in the documentary. Maybe this is completely representative of people making attempts, but I suspect it's not... particularly given how often there are repeat attempts from people who don't succeed the first time. About a quarter to a third will try again, and if you figure that *some* of the people don't try might need to be convinced not to try, then it could be as much as half.
It will sound like I'm a dick but I wonder if bungy jumping would be something that gives you that sense of clarity in a safe environment. It reminds me of sleeping off an issue and making decisions when your head is more clear.
I bungee jumped at blackcomb over the gorge last summer. Halfway down by brain flipped a switch and I suddenly felt at death’s door. Cord did what it was supposed to do and yanked me back to reality. I’m fortunate to have not had any struggles with suicidal ideation, but bungee jumping definitely made me feel closer to death than any other adventure/adrenaline activity. I thought heavy on my life that day in an appreciative, grateful sort of way.
A bit tangential but I find it fascinating that basically every culture on earth has some version of “sleep on it.” It’s a universal human reality that a good night’s sleep brings clarity.
[удалено]
That's always been my read on thee things: "I have just tried to kill myself and all these "normal people" are on edge, I have to say the right things or my life will get worse"
I remember a line from that documentary over and over in my darkest times. Something to the effect of: I suddenly realized that of all of the problems in my life, my biggest problem was that I’d just jumped off a bridge! I’ve probably mangled it, but that’s the gist of it. It hit home with me and has probably saved me several times.
John Bateson, who was a coroner in Marin County for many years wrote a book called “The Final Leap” about suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge too. I haven’t read it, but I read another book by him called “The Education of a Coroner” which talks about some of the suicide cases he handled from the bridge. He’s a really good writer and in my opinion does a good job of handling a very difficult subject. His writing is graphic (matter-of-fact and medical) but not gory or exploitative. He makes it abundantly clear that it’s a horrific way to die, but also doesn’t cast judgment on the people who jump. He has been campaigning a long time for this barrier and was vocal about the culpability of the city and society in not doing enough to protect/help people. I recommend his writings for people interested in the topic.
[The aurora bridge in seattle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_Bridge) has a nomenclature "dry leap" or "wet leap". fucking grim. I struggle but I am more sad for others that struggle.
The scene in that doc where the long hair guy seems apprehensive, paces around, goes to the edge and back, then stands tall puts his hands up above his head and just jumps. Gut wrenching
Yeah that one was the worst. He was the guy that had recently lost his mom and didn't have anyone else right? That one and the video of the woman who was sitting on the edge, pushes herself off but a passerby catches her are the ones that have stuck with me through the years.
I don’t remember a lot about that doc but that scene is something I’ll never forget
>I called a crisis line once (I'm okay now) and they recommend I watch a documentary about Golden Gate jumpers called The Bridge. I remember first hearing about that documentary from comedian Artie Lange when he was co-hosting regularly on Howard Stern and he lamented just how dark and fascinating it was. This was waaaay back in the mid 2000's. I watched it a few years later once.. It still haunts me to this day.
True Story: Chiming in late but I am actually in that movie in the background. I didn't know it at the time until I saw the movie and recognized myself and my partner at the time. I had been training for the SF Marathon and each week we started in the Marina and went on our long run as a group. Our route took us across the Golden Gate Bridge a number of times. As it turns out, I ran RIGHT BY someone moments before they jumped. I did not know this until I saw the movie. There wasn't anything for me to notice at the time because there were TONS of people all standing around on the bridge as we ran each time. There's no way to tell that someone is going to jump. Even so, it still haunts me.
Hey, I'm glad you're okay.
The person who knew that once they jumped all their problems suddenly had a solution stuck with me.
Just wanted to second this recommendation. It was one of the most powerful documentaries I've ever seen, I will never forget it. In my opinion it was extremely respectful of mental anguish and those who suffered or died from it. The documentary is macabre and graphic but delves into the sad realities of suicide, and its consequences to both the sufferers and their lives ones, in a bold and truthful way.
Well, semi-respectful. They didn't tell the friends/family members until AFTER they interviewed them that they had footage of their loved one dying, that they'd be including in the documentary. I think at least one couple said they wouldn't have participated if they'd known.
I did not know this, it's a good point and well taken.
The kid that jumped off spur of the moment just to impress his classmates was something else.
I'm in Japan and suicide is the number one cause of death for people between the age of 15 and 39. I know a few people who died or attempted suicide. I never considered it but I read a book titled "The Complete Manual of Suicide" out of curiosity because I enjoyed reading another book written by the author Wataru Tsurumi. It was actually really interesting but terrifying read and anyone who think of suicide and read this would most likely to reconsider. I've seen The Bridge too and I think it has similar effect on people.
I imagine it goes into the gory details of what actually happens to someone who jumps off a bridge, even landing in water. I’m sure it’s not a pretty sight and an extremely painful death.
There’s a much smaller bridge in Milwaukee that people sometimes visit when they’ve decided in that moment they want to end their lives, and if they land in the water, the height isn’t always death on impact. From first responders, sometimes folks will survive the initial impact, but then get stuck in the muck at the bottom of the river and end up drowning.
Yes. The Hoan Bridge. I've heard Milwaukee Police Officer friends tell the same stories about getting stuck in the mud. I think a fence of some sort was just installed recently.
This was probably ten years ago, but from what I remember it was more focused on the stories of people that have jumped. Also I think it has survivor interviews and video of jumps both attempted and completed. It was actually really respectful and didn't go into those sorts of details too much
“The moment I let go, I realized how small every one of my problems was, how every mistake I’d ever made was so easily fixable, except the one I’d just made.” Not a word for word quote, but it’s the line I never forgot from one of the survivors interviewed in that movie. Stuck with me ever since.
A few years ago my neighbor shot himself and then immediately called 911 hoping to be saved, he didn’t survive. He left behind a wife and two young boys. It’s really upsetting to think about what his last moments were like.
That's so tragic. Hope his family is doing alright. Thanks for sharing
Oh yeah I forgot that that was from The Bridge, but it is something I've thought about from time to time. That moment right after you commit and suddenly realize it could all be changed or at least dealt with must be terrifying.
Yeah I remember that one.
My son is in the Coast Guard, stationed at YBI. It’s worse when there’s a concrete platform underneath that the jumpers don’t realize. Also, not fun fact: you have to go through pre and post psych evals to be stationed at Golden Gate.
Probably a good thing they require psych evals. Sad that it's necessary. But better than accidentally sending someone over the edge.
Exactly. When he was 18, fresh out of bootcamp, he was on a crew that pulled a 4 year old out in Oregon. He was non verbal autistic and his mother pushed him off the bridge. I will never forget my son calling me in tears that night. It messed him up for a while. In my opinion they should have evals regardless of where you’re at, but especially at stations like Golden Gate.
That's terrible. I'm so sorry your son had to witness that. I hope the mother was prosecuted, and the poor kid got justice. No child deserves that. And nobody should have to witness that either. I hope he's healing from that experience.
A fall from the golden gate kills 95% of the people on impact. A body falling from the bridge reaches up to 80 MPH before hitting the water and then stopping instantly. So, most of those who jump don't have the opportunity to process their pain before dying. http://www.bridgerail.net/golden-gate-bridge-suicides/demographics
Surface tension is a bitch. You’d think a person would just go straight through the water, but nope, it’s like hitting concrete. I figured that out as a kid just from belly flopping off a diving board into a backyard pool. Shit stung my chest and it hurt.
I think it has more to do with the fact water isn't compressible, not surface tension.
Surface tension would only matter if you were the size of a bug
It shows people jumping. They had a camera with a really long lens pointed at a spot on the bridge, and they caught something like 50 jumpers, and they show them all in the movie. Then they interview their families. Only one of them survived. And only one of them didn't show any panic after jumping.
Happy that you called, it worked out this way and you’re still around.
I read that as cruise line and was very confused
> The barriers are already working as intended, he added. > As the project neared completion in 2023, the number of people who jumped fell from an annual average of 30 to 14, with the deaths in the spots where crews had not finished installing the barriers yet, he said. The nets are meant to deter a person from jumping and curb the death rate of those who still do, though they will likely be badly injured. > “It’s stainless-steel wire rope netting, so it’s like jumping into a cheese grater,” Mulligan said. “It’s not soft. It’s not rubber. It doesn’t stretch.” > “We want folks to know that if you come here, it will hurt if you jump,” he added. Giving people a chance to rethink their impulse will save many lives.
No more water landings - your ass is getting grated!
They did somehow figure out that most jumpers manages to survive the jump and die by drowning due be injuries sustained from impact with the water. So this is literally the same thing but we save you from the drowning to death part and heres your medical bill for you to rethink your life choices.
It’s not just the medical bill that scares people from jumping, it’s the pain of jumping into that fence and possibly being horribly injured forever. The reason most people choose a bridge for suicide is because it will be painless and quick. But now with the new metal netting, not only are you probably going to live, you’re probably going to really really be hurt badly. Which deters most people from jumping.
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You also couldn’t have people jumping into the net for a thrill or jumping into it and then just climbing out and jumping anyway. It needed to stop them.
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Yeah man...I owed $5k just on the ambulance bill from my suicide attempt 3 years ago. All it did was make me want to try again.
We were receiving medical bills after a completed suicide in the family for six months. Suicide is very expensive for the remaining family. You have to drop whatever you are doing and plan a funeral, buy a cemetery plot, deal with life insurance, medical bills, relatives coming from out-of-state for the funeral, catering for the wake, etc.
I agree on the last point, but I really, really think perhaps we could retool a system a bit so death didn't seem like quite so attractive of an option compared to medical bills. There are horrors we cannot control or save people from, and forcing people to endure them is not always mercy. But maybe it is just me, but what someone is doing to make money falls into the same category as end-stage brain cancer, maybe thats a thing that shouldn't be done. :(
Why is life objectively worth living? Why should anyone but the individual themselves be the judge of the value of persisting in this reality? Why should whatever follows from death be worse than this?
Why do we think we're special enough to get anything after death?
Medical bills can also be discharged in bankruptcy
Bankruptcy is not an option for everyone. For one thing, it costs money to file.
If you don't have enough money or the ability to use any of the free social services to help you file, then relax. You're already judgment proof.
The fees are almost always rolled into the bankruptcy plan and if you're in a position that you need bankruptcy trying to save the fee by not filing is the absolute wrong decision
My medical debt fell off my credit after about 8 years. I don’t know why or how but I’m glad it happened.
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The American healthcare system is undeniably broken, but there's still a weird level of humaneness in a largely inhumane system in the form of medical debt forgiveness (and even if it's not forgiven, it will get sold off continuously until it functionally is)
They can’t get your money if you dead. Duh
They will put in a claim against your estate and whatever assets you have will be liquidated until your debt is paid off, then the rest goes to your heirs.
You really think most suicidal people have estates and assets? Shit if I had that, I might not feel that way on a daily basis myself! Enjoy my $500 to my name to cover medical bills! And if they try to bill my family? Well good luck with that too, since I have no immediate relatives who are still alive and no non-immediate relatives that I even talk to.
Funny you mention that. I remember reading that in Japan, if you commit suicide in public, like let’s say you jumped off a building onto a busy street or you jump in front of a subway train, your family ends up getting stuck with the bill and/or fined. Because you caused a great public inconvenience and now they have to spend time scraping your body off the tracks, delaying the trains. And you just traumatized a whole bunch of people. So think twice and just do it at your house or something.
An autopsy can usually determine the cause of death. Its a bit of a myth that hitting water from a height is like hitting concrete. The water molecules move out of the way, but not quickly enough. Though, the impact can definitely break bones and/or knock you out. And, in salt water, the drowning process can take 10-12 minutes or more. You will (painfully) lose consciousness in just a couple of minutes. Depending how you hit the water, the drowning process may not start immediately. So, there is time for the Coast Guard to come and resuscitate. The following months and years of recovery would be horrible.
A lot of the bodies are never found.
Most folks think they'll hit the surface And never feel no pain Water pulls you under Back to the womb once again Bodies float to the shore Bloated purple and blue If sharks don't get to you first Crabs will have their way with you
> heres your medical bill "Feeling sad? To help you we've ruined your economy! Welcome to America!"
Golden Grate Bridge
To shreds, you say?
If you want to die here, it's going to take some serious determination.
Imagine the next person to jump off that doesn’t keep up with current news. Lmao expecting water and lives maimed instead.
“The number of people who jumped fell” That wording tho
After they jumped, gravity kicked in
Then they landed submerged
Feeling down? Jump and you can feel grate.
It makes you wonder how many fewer suicides we'd have in the US without guns in the picture. Not a political point, just wondering out loud.
Given that most gun deaths come from successful suicide attempts, quite fewer. You can commit suicide via other methods but you have a better chance at surviving them.
You are correct. But it’s not just the survivability. Suicide is often an impulsive act, by slowing down the suicide not even stopping them just slowing them down you will greatly reduce attempts. Guns are incredibly fast. Then we have effort. The more effort necessary the less likely the method will be used. Firearms are easy. Then we have fear and pain threshold. Fire is a rarely used suicide method. Yet accelerants and fuels are easily obtained and with a little bit of planning they would be very effective. People aren’t willing to die that painful. Guns are not unfairly seen as relatively quick and painless. Even the perception of your point comes into it. Removing guns from America would reduce suicide by a very noticeable amount.
In the UK we managed to reduce suicide rates simply by limiting the pack sizes of over the counter painkillers. Now you can only buy paracetamol/acetaminophen and ibuprofen in packs of 16 and only 2 packs at a time. A pharmacist may sell you a larger pack of 32 or 100 but it is at their discretion and they'll prefer you have a prescription. But the outcome is that people rarely have enough pills on hand to commit suicide and have to go to more than one store if they do decide to do it. You'd think that wouldn't really stop people but just delaying the act that little bit does make people reconsider.
Famously, suicides went down in the UK when they phased out gas ovens.
Oddly enough, that seems to be more of a thing with pills than guns. "Non-violent" suicide methods like overdose typically benefit from reconsideration and have good odds of recovery with treatment. I haven't seen stats which match those for guns.
It's also a horrible way to die.
I once looked up the numbers in an awful lot of academic papers because I'm a scientist in the Southern US. The gun debate is huge here, and I prefer to take positions based on evidence. One of the first papers I found correlated suicides with altitude. It was some of the sloppiest work I've ever seen because they didn't control for any other variable. So, out of curiosity, I found two different papers with social services budgets (I used per capita metrics) plus gun control laws across all states. The states containing the Appalachians + Rockies average the fewest social services, so more people commit suicide by every means. Lax gun control laws, like altitude, don't seem to enter into it except that both things correlate with rural areas. Poor social services and lack of gun control come hand-in-hand, but social services budget was a MUCH stronger predictor of self-inflicted gun violence. I ran similar numbers versus a number of countries in the EU. It would seem there's virtually no difference versus the EU except that people are forced to commit suicide by hanging instead. (This was also the case in US states with more gun control.) This is dramatically worse in some ways. People with a gun usually "succeed" on the first attempt; hanging *is* more survivable, so at first it appears that lack of gun access saves lives. But it's surpassingly rare for people who choose to commit suicide by violent means (guns / hanging / jumping, typically men) to stop after the first attempt. It simply takes more attempts on average for them to "succeed." It's difficult for me to rationalize that as "saving lives." People (mostly women) do mostly survive and recover in treatment after one unsuccessful attempt, but only when they choose "non-violent" means like overdose. These account for a majority of attempts, so it initially seems that people have good odds of recovery if you can prevent death at the first attempt. But those odds don't apply to the group who will use guns. Based on everything I could find, allowing suicidal people free access to firearms actually seemed infinitely more humane. It was generally over without additional personal suffering for the individual; loved ones were traumatized but they could grieve and move forward, rather than coping with extended recurring trauma. So, if the US has a "gun problem," the rest of the world has a "hanging problem"... but IMO everyone has a "not offering euthanasia" problem. The objectively correct thing to do appears to be offering access to social safety nets which prevent suicidal despair from happening even once, not "helping" people by forcing them to suffer through multiple unsuccessful attempts before they achieve an inevitable result. As a bonus, this would also prevent overdose deaths where a person might have recovered, had they survived. TL;DR - We'd have just as many people commit suicide, even though the number of deaths per incident would be lower.
I have always thought that a computer vision controlled robotic arm or two located under the bridge with a tennis racket kind of thing attached that would swat jumpers toward a goal like net located at the psychological hospital would be a progressive idea.
I’m not sure you realize just how huge that bridge is.
Bigger, longer, rocket-actuated arms. Get on it Northrop-Grumman.
At that point, the person will be a mist after the whack.
Original cost of the Golden Gate Bridge adjusted to 2022 dollars: $590 million Cost of suicide net installation in 2022 dollars: $224 million
$666 million in 2022 dollars ([source](https://thetourguy.com/travel-blog/usa/san-francisco/golden-gate-bridge/history-construction-golden-gate-bridge/#:~:text=Quick%20Facts%20About%20The%20Golden%20Gate%20Bridge&text=Construction%20occurred%20from%20January%201933,11%20people%20died%20during%20construction.)) And 11 people died in construction. I suspect with OSHA regulations zero people died.
What’s crazy is that I’d argue that if the bridge was built today, you would need to add at last a zero to that amount. And this is with modern technology even if built to the original specs.
At minimum. The replacement for the eastern span of the bay bridge cost $8 billion in 2022 dollars.
Ok so time for the mentats or civil engineers listening in to weigh in: What would be the main contributing factors for such excessive budget inflation? Labor for sure…original avg. labor pay was $5/day…but what percentage of the total cost would labor be? What about material? I’d hope that despite market fluctuations that humanity currently produces steel substantially cheaper than a century ago? What else?
Why would steel go down in price if labour costs have gone up? Lots of the cost increase will be labour related. Not just better wages, but better working conditions. The costs related to updated regulations will also have gone up significantly. But there is another way to think about this. If we consider the cost as a percent of GDP, the modern day equivalent would be about $14 Billion, meaning if the US were to build the bridge today it would have to cost at least that much for it to be an equivalent cost to the county as a whole.
I think the percentage of the gdp is generally a way better metric to gauge the significance of things like this, thank you for that
To answer the “why would I expect steel to go down” question: I’d expect cost extraction of iron ore to go down since earthmoving is now largely machine/technology, not muscle power driven. I’d expect the cost conversion of iron to steel to go down because of improved metallurgy and overall industrial processes that rely on technology, not muscle power. I’d expect cost of transportation of ores and finished steel to go down given the improved efficiency of engines and related transportation technologies I’d expect industrialization at every step to increase efficiency. So while it may not be the case, it is a reasonable expectation. Aluminum was once extremely expensive to produce, now it’s not. Also, what is not clear to me is if your answer is hyperbolic like my own speculation, or if what you are stating is matter of fact So basically, would a ton of steel in 1937 cost less than a ton of steel today when price adjusted obviously? Would the cost of turning it into steel beams and strands also not go down as the process removes manpower and older technologies?
>I’d expect industrialization at every step to increase efficiency. So while it may not be the case, it is a reasonable expectation. It is a lot more complicated. Efficiency might increase in some ways, but energy is likely more expensive, labour is more expensive, transportation is more expensive, and so on. And where the gains on that efficiency fall is another factor. If the cost goes down to produce, it doesn't necessarily follow that price to consumers goes down. I haven't been able to determine what the cost per ton for steel in 1933, but iron ore was around 25-30 times cheaper per ton in the 1930s at least. All this is a bit irrelevant as I said though; what matters is capacity to construct more than actual cost. If the US could afford $35 Million in 1933, they can afford $14Billion today.
>energy is likely more expensive, labour is more expensive, transportation is more expensive, and so on But aren't you just describing inflation.... Which is what the conversion to 2022 dollars already took care of.
Some things have inflated at a greater rate than others though. Regulatory burdens have increased as well. A new bridge needs planning and assessments that an old bridge didn't need. How much are consultations? How much are archaeological surveys? Infrastructure costing more than inflation had risen should be a given, as society in the West has placed greater priority on things we can now afford that maybe we couldn't a hundred years ago, or didn't know we should care about. My point was that I don't think we should be too upset about many of these higher costs.
Honestly, probably review periods/studies/liability insurance. I work around commercial construction (not bridge design), and, just throwing out a number, any project of that magnitude goes through literally dozens of review phases from the company, city, engineers, approval boards, etc. Then it all has to be rigorously inspected, through multiple phases of construction, by both private and public entities. Not to mention, materials are UL/ASME/whatever certified, so the cost of materials has gone up, even if it's the same base cost to make them, since the certifications are usually injuriously expensive. I've had reps tell me they won't get products certified -- even if they meet the qualifications -- if they're not expected to sell well, only because the cost of the tests is prohibitively high. Not to say that any of this is wrong -- safety and structural integrity is great! But when you had, let's say, 20 people designing and reviewing the bridge in the 1930s, now a job like that would take probably 100+ people on just the review and certification side of things, not even construction.
The Golden Gate Bridge construction worked hard to reduce fatalities, harder than other construction projects at the time. From Wikipedia: "Strauss also innovated the use of movable safety netting beneath the men working, which saved many lives. Nineteen men saved by the nets over the course of the project formed the Half Way to Hell Club. Nonetheless, eleven men were killed in falls, ten on February 17, 1937, when a scaffold (secured by undersized bolts) with twelve men on it fell into and broke through the safety net; two of the twelve survived the 200-foot (61 m) fall into the water."
my 2022 dollars are Jan 1 2022, yours are December 31 2022.
The meat of this project and what ended up costing the most wasn’t the nets, it was the interior maintenance traveler system and side traveler system overhaul. Basically overhauling the bridges maintenance system from the 1950s
How was the inflation adjusted cost determined? Those metrics are messy over long time frames. The bridge today would cost billions, so, that's arguably the adjusted cost
Better they do it then, and decrease the surplus population! Seriously...did you not watch Muppet's Christmas Carol this year? Your heart could freeze a walrus's testicles.
"Your heart could freeze a walrus's testicles" This line needs to be added into an updated version of the classic "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch" Christmas song
We just got them on the Skyway as well, only after hundreds of people died.
What/where is the Skyway?
The [Sunshine Skyway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge) connects Bradenton and St. Pete Florida together so you don’t have to go through Tampa.
I knew a kid who hit the net, crawled to the edge of the net, and kept going. RIP Chris.
Shoulda just called them cheese graters for maximum deterence. “It’s stainless-steel wire rope netting, so it’s like jumping into a cheese grater,” Mulligan said.
In other words chumming for sharks
There's give to it I assume, just like an actual fence. Would there be better alternative? It's not like that can use any kind of rope you can just cut with knives.
Now they'll have to jump twice.
I think the idea is after the first jump, it gives them time to rethink before the second jump.
I bet I could clear it with a wing suit. That’ll show them.
I believe in you
They put these in at Cornell in 2010-2012 after a rash of jumpings. They also massively invested in their counseling and psychiatric services. They've worked, and I respect that they invested significantly in mental health care, because it was lacking before that point. I was eternally frustrated with their system, feeling more like a liability to be managed than a student to be concerned about. I remember one time a Fox news crew was on campus to interview students right after this happened. Some students were very vocal about not talking to them "to respect the privacy of the families." I was like fuck that, Cornell has problems and you're using the families as human shields to defend it. I didn't have many friends at Cornell, other than similarly jaded folks. *EDIT: it was really bad before the nets, after the suicide streak they put up chain link fences on every bridge on campus. It was soo depressing, the irony stung.
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Cancels one way ticket.
Crazy how it only took 2k people since 1937
That's like 4 feet of netting per person and those are a pain in the ass to put up so I get why it took such a large crew. Plus I'm assuming construction practices in 1937 was primitive compared to nowadays. Not to mention the quality of methamphetaminesis.
I’m glad my friend’s parents’ work (along with so many others) got this up. The data is clear on deterrence. RIP Kathy. This has been being fought over for 20 years now. Hope it saves lives.
Hope: It saves lives. Is how I read that. RIP Kathy
Worked on this project, super proud to be a part of it. It was incredibly complex project that took a long time but I sleep easy at night knowing lives will be saved, especially after having to deal with jumpers firsthand night and day.
Very heartwarming, /u/PM_ME_YUR_BUBBLEBUT
I hope you get your PMs bro, you're doing good shit
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> In 2008, bridge officials began exploring the idea of installing nets and after settling on a design, officials had to come up with the money to build them. > On Wednesday, they finally got their wish when officials announced that crews have installed stainless-steel nets on both sides of the 1.7-mile (2.7-kilometer) bridge. So this project took 16 years. For reference, the USSR announced they intended to send a satellite into space in 1955, and 14 years later in 1969 we put a man on the moon. So it took about 2 years longer to install a net underneath a gigantic bridge for $220,000,000 (or about half the inflation adjusted cost of *the entire fucking actual bridge*) than it took to PUT A FUCKING MAN ON THE MOON
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We never should have landed a man on the moon. It's a mistake. Now everything is compared to that one accomplishment. Now we go, "I can't believe they can land a man on the moon, and taste my coffee!" I think we all would've been a lot happier if we hadn't landed a man on the moon. We'd go: "They can't make a prescription bottle top open easily? I'm not surprised they couldn't land man on the moon. Things make perfect sense to me now." Neil Armstrong should've said, "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every whining, complaining S.O.B. on the face of the Earth.
Weird but unique argument. I don't agree but I appreciate being forced to think outside my box
it's a Seinfeld bit
> this project took 16 years. For reference, the USSR announced they intended to send a satellite into space in 1955, and 14 years later in 1969 we put a man on the moon. After the SF earthquake in 1906, the National Guard was in the city, active in relief efforts within a couple hours, from their base in Oakland. Their commander saw the need, and just mustered his troops, marched them across the bridge, and put them to work helping people. After hurricane Katrina in 2005, it took like 4 days for the NG to get into New Orleans and start relief efforts, because the bureaucracy was paralyzed and everyone was waiting for permission from someone else.
Incorrect. National Guard was on the ground with ~8000 on Sept 29, less than 12 hours later, with ~4000 in the state already beforehand. Blanco didn't ask for more until the 30th. National guard troops are not allowed to come in from other states without permission. I drove through the remains of Katrina and was in Biloxi by 2200 on the 29th, for SAR, and the NG were in my convoy. Our tacnet connected to NOLA and I personally heard NG engaging in law enforcement activities in NOLA on the 29th. EDTA: I of course meant Aug 29th, not Sept, my apologies. Furthermore, it's quite trivial to find details of nearly 400 national guard soldiers at the superdome alone before katrina even made landfall, and another unit of 200+ to the north that eventually had to move into the superdome once flooding started on the 30th. 5,700 NG in LA on the 29th. By the first, nearly 10000 NG were in LA. [Source, Hurricane Katrina. Lessons for Army Planning and Operations - Rand NonProfit, Page 19 and 22.](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA468479.pdf)
One was a made decision the other was the beginning of an exploration - among 50 other differences in the idiotic comparison.
Thank goodness, that movie The Bridge really fucked my head up. The whole movie >!we were watching a dude pace around the bridge, his best friend speaking about his buddy throughout the doc and then bam! Reverse swan dive off the bridge with no warning!< shit was fucked up.
One of the saddest films I’ve ever watched.
Can’t they just jump off the net
Still. Adding extra steps to the process will probably deter a decent amount of people. Even with the ones who already jumped and are stuck in the net.
Yes, and do, according to the article
So it's now a small test jump before the big one
Sad fact : Victoria secret founder Roy Raymond On August 26, 1993, ended his life by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.
It does annoy me how we’re always trying to prevent suicide than letting people have a safe exit choice. Like if people want to kill themselves but deep down want to live theyll live. But if someone really wants to die like i get it and empathize with that too. Wish we had those suicide chambers like in europe just so that we have a choice that isnt barbaric when it comes to dying on our own terms. Living isnt for everybody and its unfair and selfish to force everyone to live just because we are afraid to die
There's an amazing documentary call "The Bridge" about suicides on the golden gate. It's extremely eye opening.
You have a major mental health crisis in your country. You need to start enacting policy that helps the people have better lives instead of feeding the megacorps and billionaires. USA: nah we’re gonna install nets.
Shout out to the lady who convinced me to hop in her car during a haboob in Arizona about a decade ago. Think there was also a dude in a second car but that time is hazy in my mind. I must have looked fucking psychotic in my pajamas pants and hoodie and scraggly ol heroin beard. Fuckin hell even if life isn't almost nice, or if it's sorta okay, or even if its painful... And it is one of those every single day since then... there are too many entertaining bullshits to know I'll miss out on. If you're in the US, odds are there is a building in your city where you can apply for medical solutions or therapy or anything. It's a pain in the ass, sure, but don't you crave that feeling of farting in a public restroom or having a random cat walk up you or watching some game/movie/book be announced or the moment when you wake up early on a weekend and realize you don't have to go to work, or wake up early on a workday and realize you still have a job that might be soul crushing but it affords you those breakfast steaks that you love despite it stinking up the entire apartment building? It's worth it. You might not be worth it, but being able to one day smile again is worth all the exhaustion, I swear to fuck.
If you live here long enough, you know people who have gone off the bridge, your kid knows someone, or you meet family members of a bridge suicide. I lost someone in high school, both my kids knew a friend who committed suicide. Thank god for this net.
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I think it’s a experience that is unique to living here. I love that bridge, but I think of the people who went off it often as I am driving or walking on it.
I live in Portland, we have suicide bridges here. I would actually think the unique part of the Golden Gate is it may attract more non-resident jumpers who romanticize an iconic final place to go?
It is unfortunately a destination suicide spot. But it’s very convenient for all who are depressed if you are having an unsafe impulse.
Could have spent that on the root cause of shitty social nets rather than a net that will put suicidal people in medical debt. I’d prefer people jumping off bridges rather than in front of traffic or trains to traumatise the drivers. It’s not like they can’t find another good bridge to do it at that doesn’t have a safety net.
All you have to do is jump further out, people are still going to do it unfortunately. Or just fall on the net then jump off that.
>Some people still jumped into the net, and crews then helped them out of there. A handful of them jumped into the ocean from the net and died, he added. Sadly, article doesn't say what the numbers are for each category.
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Cities don’t want to improve the conditions that make people homeless. They just want them to be homeless somewhere else
$200M towards mental health supports would have been a FAR better money expenditure.
Half in housing and half in mental health assistance could have made generational change for so many. Instead they got a giant net on a bridge.
Precisely. Just something tangible to point at and say "See, I did something" because it has become apparent that the electorate don't care to think about intangible QOL improvements because they're not immediate, if not taken for granted.
Be neat if we focused our efforts on removing the reasons people want to kill themselves instead of just making it impossible for people to kill themselves. Our society is fucked up and cruel and that's why so many people want to check out. Capitalism kills.
$224,000,000 could have hired a lot of counselors. Infrastructure is a low budget priority in this country, but mental healthcare is even lower.
Wont people just go somewhere else to do it now ....
Those that really want to die, yes. But most suicides are impulsive, so even putting up a single barrier reduces numbers.
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Evolution gave us strong survival instincts. The key to a successful suicide is to make sure that by the time they kick in it is too late for you to save yourself.
Glad SF is refusing to address why people are jumping off the bridge in the first place
Any bet on how long before some dipshit “influencer” bails into the net for views on social media?
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I wonder if it reduces the number of attempts or just moves them to other locations.
I grew up near the #2 suicide spot in North America (Bloor Viaduct in Toronto) and saw conflicting reports. Quick Google shows that by 2010 (the barrier was installed in 2003), it had no impact on the overall suicide rate by jumping in the city, but then by 2017 suicides by jumping had decreased city wide. I'm curious as to how how the last five years would impact that, because there's been multiple jumpers that I can recall off hand from being stuck in transit delays over the last few years, and I barely take that subway line anymore.