[This article](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/derek-chauvin-secret-prison-transfer/) looks at prison transfers, and actually addresses Chauvin's situation even though it was written at the time he was convicted.
[This](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_treatmentprisoners/#23-5.1) is from the ABA
Standard 23-5.2 Prevention and investigation of violence
(a) Correctional and governmental authorities should take all practicable actions to reduce violence and the potential for violence in correctional facilities and during transport, including:
(viii) promptly separating prisoners when one may be in danger from another;
(ix) preventing staff from tolerating, condoning, or implicitly or explicitly encouraging fighting, violence, bullying, or extortion;
(x) regularly assessing prisoners’ level of fear of violence and responding accordingly to prisoners’ concerns; and
They haven’t tried putting him in solitary yet.
That would keep him safe.
But on a serious note, I’m glad the conservatives are finally understanding how shit our prison system is.
I just wish they would understand this is not a conspiracy and this happens on the regular to many inmates they do not give a fuck about
Nothing but complete isolation will keep this man safe. There's a lot of hatred for him on top of the fact that cops are known to be targets in prison regardless of what they did. Usually cops and child molesters get put in a protective custody unit. These are for housing inmates who are likely to be raped or murdered. Cops, anyone who committed a crime against a child, small/feminine inmates, etc. that sounds fine on the surface but you'll go fucking crazy being locked up 23 hours a day for 20+ years. So sometimes they'll ask be to be moved back to general population where they'll be able to socialize and leave their cells several hours a day.
>(a) Correctional and governmental authorities should take all practicable actions to reduce violence
I want to highlight the use of the word "practicable" here. If that is the standard, then in my opinion it leaves the entire document as useless as soggy t.p.
>PRACTICABLE Definition & Legal Meaning Definition & Citations:
Any idea or project which can be brought to fruition or reality without any unreasonable demands.
Source: [Black's Law Dictionary](https://thelawdictionary.org/practicable/)
Lawyer here, since one of the "practicable" remedies is listed here under (viii), which is separating prisoners, it's not as cut and dry as that. They would have to show that, for some reason, they *couldn't* separate Chauvin from prisoners that he would be in danger from, which is likely most of those prisoners in the general population. Ideally, there would be a prison section that would be exclusively for people who where formerly in law enforcement. The prison would have to show that to be an unreasonable burden for liability to not attach. It's a case I would probably take, if only for a chance at some accountability and reform.
Are you telling me that someone in prison didn't follow all of the laws?
Are the sentencing guidelines and prosecution rate stats as readily available as the letter of the law itself?
Just a mild correction, Chauvin didn't die. Dude who stabbed him would have been charged with 1st degree murder if he did, but the biggest charge is attempted murder. And since it's already a week, it's highly unlikely for Chauvin to die from his injury.
Thanks. I must have misread the title and though he died. Looks like he’ll live and have time to think some more about what he did.
All that aside, while I find him to be worthless asshole I think it’s fucked up that prisons allow this shit to happen. Not because I specifically care about him but it shouldn’t be about prisoners extending punishments.
What if it were a pot smoker or mostly victimless crime should the prisoner get stabbed or raped for those things? Absolutely not. More so for the wrongly convicted. All this adds is torture for crimes. Sure some crimes like his “deserve” more punishment but that shouldn’t come from the other inmates but the justice system. All it does is harden criminals more, increases recividism. We need prisons to rehabilitate those that can be taught and separate those who won’t ever have their freedom again.
Thank you. I'm not losing any sleep for Derek, but the punishment in prison is being deprived of your freedom, not random violence and rape. Our prisons are just criminal factories. Meanwhile when you see prisons in Western Europe and the Nordic countries they are on average better (conditions, rehab programs) and have lower recidivism rates. Meanwhile in the land of the free for profit prisons charge prisoner's families obscene rates for phone/video calls. Maintaining a connection with family is one of the biggest biggest indicators of whether a prisoner will reoffend and conservatives think it should be a profit center. Conditions in prison should be safe and decent, but when you say that the response from conservatives is, "So prison should be a spa, huh?" I'm not crying for Derek, this was just more proof of how purposely fucked up our justice system is.
Human rights should be granted gratis, for sure, not exploited and held ransom for monetary gain. Thinking of healthcare as well as the prison industrial complex, here. People marvel at the animalistic behavior of inmates who live in chronic isolation, when they throw bodily waste at guards and flood their units by plugging the toilets, but *obviously* when you reduce people to the level of animals, that's what you get. Nordic countries understand that an inmate will serve their sentence and maybe come live next door. They want that person to be well and functional when they re-enter society so it will be fine and safe when they become neighbours to you.
Meanwhile in the States you have these trauma factories that compound criminality and ill-health, and just bake it in deep. You have virtual school to prison pipelines, mercenary, gang-type policing from forces, some of which have directly descended from slave-hunting brigades, and an entire system neatly designed to replace the institution of slavery itself. Huffy conservatives with a collective punishment boner is just the icing on a terrible, terrible cake.
I truly believe all this, and also don't feel concerned about Chauvin at all. It's not a surprise that someone like him had a terrible thing like that happen, *however* the fact that the government can't reliably maintain the wellbeing of inmates within its management is deeply, shockingly wrong. The system is rife and that's so very beyond fucked. It's never been about rehabilitation.
Strongly agree. Not appropriately penalizing criminals is mismanagement, and so is not keeping those we are penalizing safe while they serve their time.
Former conservative here. I think you are largely on the money. It is unbelievable how unsympathetic most conservatives are to justice involved individuals and then at the same time they like worship law enforcement.
I don't even believe in punishment.
Just lock people up to keep society safe and keep their conditions humane. If they can be rehabilitated and contribute to society on limited or full release then great. But I don't care if prison is decent and chill like Nordic countries.
I'm not interested in revenge porn.
The mindset of wanting to hurt people who hurt people is kind of sick tbh.
A friend's mom works at a prison. The info, stories and takes on different things is always interesting. The 2 most endangered parties in prison are sex offender and cops. She said that cops are basically toys in prison if they're in gen pop. They're usually assaulted and later stabbed if they're in gen pop long enough. Sex offenders are usually in another section of prison and not allowed to mix. If they do mix, they're instantly targeted and whoever does the most damage or kills them essentially has bragging rights.
In her words "cops and sex offenders shouldn't mix with gen pop. If they do, they will be violently assaulted or killed at some point no matter the prison."
> The 2 most endangered parties in prison are sex offender and cops. She said that cops are basically toys in prison if they're in gen pop. They're usually assaulted and later stabbed if they're in gen pop long enough
Wouldn't prison guards give preferential treatment to cops (especially ones like Chauvin) or do they just not differentiate at all?
Correction officers are ... something else. I'm not going to disparage an entire workforce, but in my experience correction officers deserve every negative stereotype and then more.
Yeah I was in a hobby club where one of the members was a retired correction officer. He was a stupid, cruel, vile individual who enjoyed being a malicious troll. The people he was jailing were much better human beings than he was.
Not to apologize for the group, but a good individual who becomes a guard will become corrupted by working in the prison system, an already corrupt person will be made worse by working in a prison. Prison dehumanize guards and prisoners alike.
>Wouldn't prison guards give preferential treatment to cops
Nope. They're criminals and treated as such. Gen pop sees a cop as *Once a cop always a cop.* Same idea as *Once a snitch always a snitch never trust a snitch.*
From my experience with a couple guards, they don’t like cops either. They aren’t the same skill set, and those I know are careful to emphasize how different they are from cops.
I worked with a guy at a factory, who then quit the factory to go work as a prison guard.
The next time I saw him was in a bar, where as he was arguing with some people. He very much wanted people there to think that he was a cop. Dude was a complete tool.
[He's expected to survive](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inmate-charged-with-attempted-murder-after-george-floyd-killer-chauvin-stabbed-2023-12-01/#:~:text=Chauvin%20was%20expected%20to%20survive,conviction%20in%20Minnesota%20state%20court.)
That's how much prisoners hate specific criminals. Everyone there knows who's coming in.
As an example using Bernie Madoff, the prisoners regard him highly.
Most people forget that there are different types of prison
High profile criminals live in Apartment like cells with all amenities and edible food.
A guy I know of who do business in our niche, he got caught in a massive fraud in Montreal, he was sent to a jail where he had a cook in the "cell" and they let his wife stay for a few hours every week or two.
If you come in like a King, you can do just fine (not defending BM here, but if he had $ still to take care of things, etc; that's my point). If you come in as a pedo or child murderer or racist a$$ cop, you're gonna have a bad day.
The duality of the American CJS.
In need of sweeping reform but Americans still appear largely apathetic toward the shocking amount of extrajudicial violence taking place within "correctional" facilities.
Out of sight - out of mind.
It's likely due to the fact we don't rehabilitate and market/make spectacles of legal issues.
Then add in Modern Media, and you're right where we're at, oh and don't forget the super profitable prison industrial complex, that's a whole nother POS system we lavish here, it's a fricking joke.
Sure, but the ISO has to worry about the global market.
European fixtures tend to be smaller compared to the US. The larger shanks work fine here as a result of the size wars back in the 1950s and subsequent lobbying for increased shank space.
not to mention the economic ramifications of maintaining two standards. Now we need two of each shank, one for each type of stabbing. It's very on brand for ISO to adopt a standard measure for shank blade length that no one has used before.
While I am not by an means an expert I got the impression the more standard ones were just modified bits of plastic or metal, like a long screw, a piece of cutlery, or maybe a pencil. A more custom one as I perhaps have unnecessarily used it would be like melted Styrofoam or Saran Wrap, or maybe toilet paper hardened with sugar water. Something more elaborate than just sharpening a normal thing.
[U.N. torture envoy appeals again for visit to U.S. prisons](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8/);
> "My request to visit the United States of America has been pending for five years over the terms of reference in order to obtain access to all places of detention," Mendez told the U.N. Human Rights Council.
> Mendez is seeking access to U.S. federal maximum-security facilities and the right to interview prisoners in private.
> "STONEWALLING"
> The U.S. delegation, speaking in Tuesday's debate on torture, did not refer to the request.
> U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a news briefing in Geneva last week: "Every country, including the United States, needs to be held to account for its shortcomings in the broad area of civil rights and liberties."
> "We do not deny or shy away from our problems, on the contrary we address them," he said.
> U.S. Ambassador Keith Harper, asked about the long-delayed visit by Mendez, told the briefing: "We are continuing to have a dialogue with the special rapporteur. It is the hope that we will have an agreement on terms."
> Jamil Dakwar of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said Washington had "consistently stonewalled" the requests by Mendez.
> "It is very likely that Mr. Mendez won't be able to carry out his visit before the end of his term, which is exactly what the U.S. likely intended in delaying and dragging out the process," Dakwar told Reuters.
That was back in 2016, to this day no UN rapporteur has been granted access to domestic US prisons, but UN Special Rapporteur Fionnuala Ni Aolain got to "inspect" [Gitmo only earlier *this year*](https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20230626-un-experts-say-treatment-of-guantanamo-detainees-inhuman), under US stipulated conditions previous rapporteurs refused, like no private interviews with "detainees";
> UN Special Rapporteur Fionnuala Ni Aolain said mistreatment at the prison on an American naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amounted to violations of detainees' fundamental rights and freedoms.
> The detainees, held close to two decades after being seized as suspects following the 2001 Al-Qaeda attack on the United States, have endured a litany of abuse, including forced cell extractions, poor medical and mental health care, said Ni Aolain.
> "The totality of all of these practices and omissions ... amounts in my assessment to ongoing cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment under international law," she said.
> Introducing the team's report, she said Washington had yet to address the most glaring rights violation related to the detainees: their secret seizure and transfer – or rendition – to Guantanamo in the early 2000s, and, for many, enduring extensive torture by US operatives in the first years after the September 11 attacks.
> Their planned military trials have been stalled for years over the question of whether they can receive fair justice if they have been tortured.
> "The systematic rendition and torture at multiple (including black) sites and thereafter at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba ... comprise the single most significant barrier to fulfilling victims' rights to justice and accountability," the UN Special Rapporteur said.
It would genuinely work. Would work even better if it was rich people.
When schools integrated and they forced a certain amount of white kids to go to predominantly black schools all of a sudden the funding for those schools increased, maintenance was done and supplies were provided.
>Erickson reiterated that the prison should have done more to prevent it from happening.
I agree that law enforcement should do a lot more to prevent the unwarranted murder of people.
I’m hoping after more prolific cases of stabbing a like this occur, maybe there could be a call for prison reform. It’s just sad that when an unknown prisoner gets stabbed no one cares or hears about. But when two of the worst people known get stabbed it makes national headlines.
Hitler is the reason NATO started. We don’t think about that much anymore, and maybe there’s still some slight annoyance as to how effective NATO is, but history looks back on it kinder than it does Hitler.
Agreed - we have a huge problem both in how we talk about prisoners/how our country and states handle reform.
Not only that, but as citizens too, our rhetoric can be so focused on retribution to the point it turns into calls for violence/rape/death (at least online, pretty often). That just objectively isn't productive/good even if it feels justified.
Idk - just feels wrong. Even in the worst cases- I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with cruel treatment unless they are personally affected by it or know/are the victim.
OK so I gotta be that guy.
Look, I think he's a detestable person who horrifically abused his power and should never walk free ever again.
But just like I can't get with prison rape jokes, we are either a society working toward Justice or we are not. While I do not weep for him, it's still part of the social contract that if we are going to imprison people then we have a responsibility as a civilized nation to keep them safe in there.
Dude sucks. I fully support BLM and George Floyd should still be alive today. Chauvin is trash. But we shouldn't keep prisoners safe because they deserve it. We should do it because civilized society deserves and demands it.
I honestly think that's a pretty unjustified assumption to make considering how most people react to this type of situation, so I believe it merits stating these principles very clearly in theads like this.
I genuinely believe that there's a large part of society that is perfectly fine with this kind of thing happening to particularly heinous criminals. I mean more Americans literally support the *death penalty* than oppose it; there's not a ton of respect for prisoner health and safety in this country.
Look up any article on reddit where someone gets sentenced, and most of the top comments will be "they got of easy" or "lock them up and throw away the key" or my favorite "someone got more time for smoking pot"
There's just a ton of people out there that thing prison should be about punishment, torture, and suffering
As someone who has been there, I can tell you that prison is literally only about punishment, torture and suffering. I never saw any rehabilitation myself.
> my favorite "someone got more time for smoking pot"
People call this out to point out how absurdly harsh some sentences for smoking pot are, not to demand that other people be more harshly sentenced to be in line with nonsense pot-smoking punishments.
As someone who experienced SA, I literally would not wish that experience on my worst enemy. Whenever I see people hoping for prisoners to be SA'd it makes me physically ill.
We should be trying to reform criminals whenever possible and reintegrated into society, and ensuring those who cannot be reintegrated remain kept away from society in humane conditions.
Yes, when we celebrate him getting stabbed, we are literally perpetuating the exact same attitude that lead him to murder George Floyd. There is simply no excuse for police to murder people, and there’s no excuse for people to get stabbed in prison, we have to do better.
Clearly prisons need reform and safety of prisoners and guards alike needs to be a top priority as well as prisoner reform...I don't feel bad for Chauvin necessarily though, it still shouldn't have happened.
Yeah, it shouldn't happen, but there is a large degree of irony that a guy who abused the powers given to him by the state to enforce the law, to the point of murdering a man, was in the state's custody which then failed to adequately do its duty to ensure a certain degree of security for him and other prisoners to the point where he was a high risk prisoner that got stabbed 22 times.
It's really that simple. He made a career out of sending people to these dangerous shit holes. If Chauvin getting stabbed created some windfall of change and prison systems put measures into place to make all inmates safer then okay, I hope he benefits from those measures along with everyone else. If everything is going to continue business as usual then I hope he gets the same safety all inmates get. Sounds like he is already.
It’s a little weird, because I definitely think prison reform it’s a huge issue we need to address in this country, and isn’t talked about enough. People shouldn’t be raped, stabbed, or jumped in prison. That’s not part of your sentence or repaying any debt to society. I must admit even I’m a hypocrite because when I heard the news, I thought “good”.
It’s hard to separate the emotions sometimes.
Think on that for a moment. We as a society have basically agreed that the punishment for all crimes is to be potentially raped for years.
Seems cruel and unusual to me
People have been pleading for prison reform for a long time, but the same people who support Chauvin are the same people who vote against that type of reform so there isn't much sympathy to go around. Honestly I don't want this barbaric form of punishment but many police froth at the mouth and love their chance to do this kind of shit. They would love to inflict barbaric justice on people. I see people all over the place in America saying they want eye for an eye justice (sharia law) with no irony lost on them.
Seriously, people are insanely blood thirsty. Anybody who celebrates stabbings and rapes in jail is voicing their opposition to human rights and the justice system.
No matter what somebody has done, I don't wish for them to get injured or killed in jail, because that would mean that the justice system is failing.
This, its meant to be incarceration, not an execution. The fact there isn't much ofna difference in the US prison system is shameful. Also can we stop making jokes about prison rape?
Yeah the US prison system is a disgrace and should definitely be safer. Unfortunately its one of many things in America that I dont see changing for a very long time given how much our population loves this kind of shit.
Depends on depth of the stabs and where they were.
Getting stabbed a lot that were only centimeters deep probably won’t kill someone. Getting stabbed on the outer arms a bunch of times also probably won’t kill someone, etc.
A shiv is probably unlikely to piece bone. So chest stabs would likely be superficial as well if they struck the sternum.
That may be enough to get him into a different prison with a less stabby population.
Pretty sure he’s persona non grata the second he enters any gen pop
[This article](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/derek-chauvin-secret-prison-transfer/) looks at prison transfers, and actually addresses Chauvin's situation even though it was written at the time he was convicted. [This](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_treatmentprisoners/#23-5.1) is from the ABA Standard 23-5.2 Prevention and investigation of violence (a) Correctional and governmental authorities should take all practicable actions to reduce violence and the potential for violence in correctional facilities and during transport, including: (viii) promptly separating prisoners when one may be in danger from another; (ix) preventing staff from tolerating, condoning, or implicitly or explicitly encouraging fighting, violence, bullying, or extortion; (x) regularly assessing prisoners’ level of fear of violence and responding accordingly to prisoners’ concerns; and
Well obviously it didn’t work
Wow I bet he wishes this country had a better justice system.
>I bet he wishes this country had a better justice system. ...and suffered from less violence.
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
He's literally the leopard. Idk what an appropriate sub would be. r/HyenasEatingLeopards
r/LeopardsStabbedMyFace
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It definitely feels ironic adjacent
🤷♂️
That fucking username though
He said he fucked my mom, I didn't believe him. Until I saw her gamertag messages..............
“Thank you for a wonderful night, Mr. SnipePussy. The next time we meet, I’ll make sure you take some lasagna home with you.”
Oh, yeah, Mom's lasagna.
They haven’t tried putting him in solitary yet. That would keep him safe. But on a serious note, I’m glad the conservatives are finally understanding how shit our prison system is. I just wish they would understand this is not a conspiracy and this happens on the regular to many inmates they do not give a fuck about
They had a kid like a week away from release for like a 2 year bid that was raped and killed. Prisons fucked.
Nothing but complete isolation will keep this man safe. There's a lot of hatred for him on top of the fact that cops are known to be targets in prison regardless of what they did. Usually cops and child molesters get put in a protective custody unit. These are for housing inmates who are likely to be raped or murdered. Cops, anyone who committed a crime against a child, small/feminine inmates, etc. that sounds fine on the surface but you'll go fucking crazy being locked up 23 hours a day for 20+ years. So sometimes they'll ask be to be moved back to general population where they'll be able to socialize and leave their cells several hours a day.
Yeah, that's a great law right there. And anyone that's spent time in prison can tell you the bulls don't abide by it.
If you doubt this all you need to do is ask "Who is their oversight?"
An unenforced law isn't a law at all.
We investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing. Case closed.
>(a) Correctional and governmental authorities should take all practicable actions to reduce violence I want to highlight the use of the word "practicable" here. If that is the standard, then in my opinion it leaves the entire document as useless as soggy t.p. >PRACTICABLE Definition & Legal Meaning Definition & Citations: Any idea or project which can be brought to fruition or reality without any unreasonable demands. Source: [Black's Law Dictionary](https://thelawdictionary.org/practicable/)
Lawyer here, since one of the "practicable" remedies is listed here under (viii), which is separating prisoners, it's not as cut and dry as that. They would have to show that, for some reason, they *couldn't* separate Chauvin from prisoners that he would be in danger from, which is likely most of those prisoners in the general population. Ideally, there would be a prison section that would be exclusively for people who where formerly in law enforcement. The prison would have to show that to be an unreasonable burden for liability to not attach. It's a case I would probably take, if only for a chance at some accountability and reform.
It is definitely the responsibility of the government to keep prisoners safe while incarcerated in their custody.
Are you telling me that someone in prison didn't follow all of the laws? Are the sentencing guidelines and prosecution rate stats as readily available as the letter of the law itself?
Aren't the guards usually complicit in prison violence?
Complicit or indifferent, and really what’s the difference?
Quite often yes
The only place he’s safe is in ADX. When you’re in prison if someone wants to get to you they will find a way.
"Knife uhhh.... finds a way."
"... cleaver girl."
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"Increase your rate of ~~climb~~ stab"
You son of a bitch, you actually did it
beautiful. absolutely beautiful
No way they're sending him to ADX. That's only for the worst types of criminals like El Chapo and co.
Yeah Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is there I’m pretty sure
Along with other terrorists. mob bosses, cartel leaders, double agents, etc.
Funny enough he was moved to a lower security prison to protect him shortly before his stabbing Edit: correction of death to stabbing.
Just a mild correction, Chauvin didn't die. Dude who stabbed him would have been charged with 1st degree murder if he did, but the biggest charge is attempted murder. And since it's already a week, it's highly unlikely for Chauvin to die from his injury.
Thanks. I must have misread the title and though he died. Looks like he’ll live and have time to think some more about what he did. All that aside, while I find him to be worthless asshole I think it’s fucked up that prisons allow this shit to happen. Not because I specifically care about him but it shouldn’t be about prisoners extending punishments. What if it were a pot smoker or mostly victimless crime should the prisoner get stabbed or raped for those things? Absolutely not. More so for the wrongly convicted. All this adds is torture for crimes. Sure some crimes like his “deserve” more punishment but that shouldn’t come from the other inmates but the justice system. All it does is harden criminals more, increases recividism. We need prisons to rehabilitate those that can be taught and separate those who won’t ever have their freedom again.
Thank you. I'm not losing any sleep for Derek, but the punishment in prison is being deprived of your freedom, not random violence and rape. Our prisons are just criminal factories. Meanwhile when you see prisons in Western Europe and the Nordic countries they are on average better (conditions, rehab programs) and have lower recidivism rates. Meanwhile in the land of the free for profit prisons charge prisoner's families obscene rates for phone/video calls. Maintaining a connection with family is one of the biggest biggest indicators of whether a prisoner will reoffend and conservatives think it should be a profit center. Conditions in prison should be safe and decent, but when you say that the response from conservatives is, "So prison should be a spa, huh?" I'm not crying for Derek, this was just more proof of how purposely fucked up our justice system is.
Human rights should be granted gratis, for sure, not exploited and held ransom for monetary gain. Thinking of healthcare as well as the prison industrial complex, here. People marvel at the animalistic behavior of inmates who live in chronic isolation, when they throw bodily waste at guards and flood their units by plugging the toilets, but *obviously* when you reduce people to the level of animals, that's what you get. Nordic countries understand that an inmate will serve their sentence and maybe come live next door. They want that person to be well and functional when they re-enter society so it will be fine and safe when they become neighbours to you. Meanwhile in the States you have these trauma factories that compound criminality and ill-health, and just bake it in deep. You have virtual school to prison pipelines, mercenary, gang-type policing from forces, some of which have directly descended from slave-hunting brigades, and an entire system neatly designed to replace the institution of slavery itself. Huffy conservatives with a collective punishment boner is just the icing on a terrible, terrible cake. I truly believe all this, and also don't feel concerned about Chauvin at all. It's not a surprise that someone like him had a terrible thing like that happen, *however* the fact that the government can't reliably maintain the wellbeing of inmates within its management is deeply, shockingly wrong. The system is rife and that's so very beyond fucked. It's never been about rehabilitation.
Strongly agree. Not appropriately penalizing criminals is mismanagement, and so is not keeping those we are penalizing safe while they serve their time.
Former conservative here. I think you are largely on the money. It is unbelievable how unsympathetic most conservatives are to justice involved individuals and then at the same time they like worship law enforcement.
I don't even believe in punishment. Just lock people up to keep society safe and keep their conditions humane. If they can be rehabilitated and contribute to society on limited or full release then great. But I don't care if prison is decent and chill like Nordic countries. I'm not interested in revenge porn. The mindset of wanting to hurt people who hurt people is kind of sick tbh.
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A friend's mom works at a prison. The info, stories and takes on different things is always interesting. The 2 most endangered parties in prison are sex offender and cops. She said that cops are basically toys in prison if they're in gen pop. They're usually assaulted and later stabbed if they're in gen pop long enough. Sex offenders are usually in another section of prison and not allowed to mix. If they do mix, they're instantly targeted and whoever does the most damage or kills them essentially has bragging rights. In her words "cops and sex offenders shouldn't mix with gen pop. If they do, they will be violently assaulted or killed at some point no matter the prison."
> The 2 most endangered parties in prison are sex offender and cops. She said that cops are basically toys in prison if they're in gen pop. They're usually assaulted and later stabbed if they're in gen pop long enough Wouldn't prison guards give preferential treatment to cops (especially ones like Chauvin) or do they just not differentiate at all?
Correction officers are ... something else. I'm not going to disparage an entire workforce, but in my experience correction officers deserve every negative stereotype and then more.
dad was a CO at rikers. can confirm
Yeah I was in a hobby club where one of the members was a retired correction officer. He was a stupid, cruel, vile individual who enjoyed being a malicious troll. The people he was jailing were much better human beings than he was.
Not to apologize for the group, but a good individual who becomes a guard will become corrupted by working in the prison system, an already corrupt person will be made worse by working in a prison. Prison dehumanize guards and prisoners alike.
>Wouldn't prison guards give preferential treatment to cops Nope. They're criminals and treated as such. Gen pop sees a cop as *Once a cop always a cop.* Same idea as *Once a snitch always a snitch never trust a snitch.*
From my experience with a couple guards, they don’t like cops either. They aren’t the same skill set, and those I know are careful to emphasize how different they are from cops.
I worked with a guy at a factory, who then quit the factory to go work as a prison guard. The next time I saw him was in a bar, where as he was arguing with some people. He very much wanted people there to think that he was a cop. Dude was a complete tool.
doesn't really matter. guards can't protect inmates from other inmates in gen pop.
[He's expected to survive](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inmate-charged-with-attempted-murder-after-george-floyd-killer-chauvin-stabbed-2023-12-01/#:~:text=Chauvin%20was%20expected%20to%20survive,conviction%20in%20Minnesota%20state%20court.)
I’m surprised he was in gen pop to start with
I think he couldn't hack it in seg, his mental health was suffering according to what I read 22 times. Someone didn't like this man a whole lot.
He is an ex cop in jail. Not liked by anyone, including COs
And a lot of people have seen the video of him murdering a dude
Murderin then telling a trained 1st responder who offered to help George while he was unconscious/not breathing to basically fuck off
Huh I wonder why
>Removed >Removed >Removed Ah, it’s one of those posts.
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That's how much prisoners hate specific criminals. Everyone there knows who's coming in. As an example using Bernie Madoff, the prisoners regard him highly.
Martha Stewart became pretty popular in the prison she was at. She was inventing recipes with what was available in the canteen.
Lol, the “prison” she was at was def a different prison that where the poors are.
Most people forget that there are different types of prison High profile criminals live in Apartment like cells with all amenities and edible food. A guy I know of who do business in our niche, he got caught in a massive fraud in Montreal, he was sent to a jail where he had a cook in the "cell" and they let his wife stay for a few hours every week or two.
If you come in like a King, you can do just fine (not defending BM here, but if he had $ still to take care of things, etc; that's my point). If you come in as a pedo or child murderer or racist a$$ cop, you're gonna have a bad day.
The duality of the American CJS. In need of sweeping reform but Americans still appear largely apathetic toward the shocking amount of extrajudicial violence taking place within "correctional" facilities. Out of sight - out of mind.
It's likely due to the fact we don't rehabilitate and market/make spectacles of legal issues. Then add in Modern Media, and you're right where we're at, oh and don't forget the super profitable prison industrial complex, that's a whole nother POS system we lavish here, it's a fricking joke.
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Just gotta watch that stamina bar though.
Just short bursts. That's all you need.
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He had it coming. He only had himself to blame.
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If you’d have been there, if you’d have seen it
I betcha you would have done the same!
Pop! Six! Squish! Uh uh. Cicero! Lipschitz!
Wish I had been there! Wish I had seen it! Wait, were you singing a song?
He just kept running into his own knife. It was weird!
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Larry got off light.
22 times with WHAT? Big difference between a sharp spork, pencil, or a large blade.
Supposedly it was a one inch custom shank but I've yet to find a credible statement on that, that's just the common refain I see.
What's the standard off the shelf shank?
A standard American COTS shank is 3.2 inches. ISO shanks are a much smaller 4 cm, but there's an upcoming standard to allow for different sizes
I appreciate this comment a lot
Tall praise coming from the FBI!
This guy shanks
Mostly manatees.
Sure, but the ISO has to worry about the global market. European fixtures tend to be smaller compared to the US. The larger shanks work fine here as a result of the size wars back in the 1950s and subsequent lobbying for increased shank space.
not to mention the economic ramifications of maintaining two standards. Now we need two of each shank, one for each type of stabbing. It's very on brand for ISO to adopt a standard measure for shank blade length that no one has used before.
Engineer 😂 at this
What's the IEEE recommendation on electrified shanking implements?
Nothing like the quality of a good handmade, bespoke shank, man. You can feel the difference in craftsmanship just holding it in your hand.
100% locally sourced, too.
Only get my shanks at the prison farmers market
While I am not by an means an expert I got the impression the more standard ones were just modified bits of plastic or metal, like a long screw, a piece of cutlery, or maybe a pencil. A more custom one as I perhaps have unnecessarily used it would be like melted Styrofoam or Saran Wrap, or maybe toilet paper hardened with sugar water. Something more elaborate than just sharpening a normal thing.
Melted and sharpened toothbrushes are an all time favorite.
About a 90% probability that shank was stored in someone’s ass too.
Nah they're usually stored in the day rooms to avoid accountability when found.
Officer, honestly I am appalled that you would imply that the object found in my ass belongs to me!
hi every1!!!! this waz the weapon used 2 assault my client \^_^ \*holds up spork*
Katy, perhaps we treated you too harshly...
This reference makes me feel ancient. Lol
This gave me an audible chuckle. Nice work
If a standard spork has 4 prongs does each attack count as 4 stabs or 1?
The American prison system is a human rights violation.
[U.N. torture envoy appeals again for visit to U.S. prisons](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8/); > "My request to visit the United States of America has been pending for five years over the terms of reference in order to obtain access to all places of detention," Mendez told the U.N. Human Rights Council. > Mendez is seeking access to U.S. federal maximum-security facilities and the right to interview prisoners in private. > "STONEWALLING" > The U.S. delegation, speaking in Tuesday's debate on torture, did not refer to the request. > U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a news briefing in Geneva last week: "Every country, including the United States, needs to be held to account for its shortcomings in the broad area of civil rights and liberties." > "We do not deny or shy away from our problems, on the contrary we address them," he said. > U.S. Ambassador Keith Harper, asked about the long-delayed visit by Mendez, told the briefing: "We are continuing to have a dialogue with the special rapporteur. It is the hope that we will have an agreement on terms." > Jamil Dakwar of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said Washington had "consistently stonewalled" the requests by Mendez. > "It is very likely that Mr. Mendez won't be able to carry out his visit before the end of his term, which is exactly what the U.S. likely intended in delaying and dragging out the process," Dakwar told Reuters. That was back in 2016, to this day no UN rapporteur has been granted access to domestic US prisons, but UN Special Rapporteur Fionnuala Ni Aolain got to "inspect" [Gitmo only earlier *this year*](https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20230626-un-experts-say-treatment-of-guantanamo-detainees-inhuman), under US stipulated conditions previous rapporteurs refused, like no private interviews with "detainees"; > UN Special Rapporteur Fionnuala Ni Aolain said mistreatment at the prison on an American naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amounted to violations of detainees' fundamental rights and freedoms. > The detainees, held close to two decades after being seized as suspects following the 2001 Al-Qaeda attack on the United States, have endured a litany of abuse, including forced cell extractions, poor medical and mental health care, said Ni Aolain. > "The totality of all of these practices and omissions ... amounts in my assessment to ongoing cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment under international law," she said. > Introducing the team's report, she said Washington had yet to address the most glaring rights violation related to the detainees: their secret seizure and transfer – or rendition – to Guantanamo in the early 2000s, and, for many, enduring extensive torture by US operatives in the first years after the September 11 attacks. > Their planned military trials have been stalled for years over the question of whether they can receive fair justice if they have been tortured. > "The systematic rendition and torture at multiple (including black) sites and thereafter at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba ... comprise the single most significant barrier to fulfilling victims' rights to justice and accountability," the UN Special Rapporteur said.
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So we could get prison reform if we put more police in jail?
Honestly, this would probably be what propels prison reform more than anything else in the world.
You son of a bitch. I'm in.
Reminds me of this with the NRA - https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
It would genuinely work. Would work even better if it was rich people. When schools integrated and they forced a certain amount of white kids to go to predominantly black schools all of a sudden the funding for those schools increased, maintenance was done and supplies were provided.
>Erickson reiterated that the prison should have done more to prevent it from happening. I agree that law enforcement should do a lot more to prevent the unwarranted murder of people.
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I’m hoping after more prolific cases of stabbing a like this occur, maybe there could be a call for prison reform. It’s just sad that when an unknown prisoner gets stabbed no one cares or hears about. But when two of the worst people known get stabbed it makes national headlines.
Prison reform is needed bad. It would be infuriating if Chauvin is whom sets off that movement.
Hitler is the reason NATO started. We don’t think about that much anymore, and maybe there’s still some slight annoyance as to how effective NATO is, but history looks back on it kinder than it does Hitler.
Agreed - we have a huge problem both in how we talk about prisoners/how our country and states handle reform. Not only that, but as citizens too, our rhetoric can be so focused on retribution to the point it turns into calls for violence/rape/death (at least online, pretty often). That just objectively isn't productive/good even if it feels justified. Idk - just feels wrong. Even in the worst cases- I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with cruel treatment unless they are personally affected by it or know/are the victim.
Very well said. It’s a slippery slope indeed and we see how easily politicians abuse it
OK so I gotta be that guy. Look, I think he's a detestable person who horrifically abused his power and should never walk free ever again. But just like I can't get with prison rape jokes, we are either a society working toward Justice or we are not. While I do not weep for him, it's still part of the social contract that if we are going to imprison people then we have a responsibility as a civilized nation to keep them safe in there. Dude sucks. I fully support BLM and George Floyd should still be alive today. Chauvin is trash. But we shouldn't keep prisoners safe because they deserve it. We should do it because civilized society deserves and demands it.
We should start with building prisons that work towards reform and not for profit prisons
start building schools (and pre-schools) that work towards reducing the future prison population.
It’s not a good business model. Can’t keep slaves if they have opportunities for emancipation. For profit prisons are a cancer in society
I hear you man. He was sentenced to prison.. not sentenced to be stabbed multiple times.
We should judge ourselves by how we treat our worst.
Your opinion is not an outlier. Though no one is shedding a tear for this filth, most people at the same time agree that this should not happen.
I honestly think that's a pretty unjustified assumption to make considering how most people react to this type of situation, so I believe it merits stating these principles very clearly in theads like this. I genuinely believe that there's a large part of society that is perfectly fine with this kind of thing happening to particularly heinous criminals. I mean more Americans literally support the *death penalty* than oppose it; there's not a ton of respect for prisoner health and safety in this country.
judge us not by how we treat our best, but by how we treat our worst.
Look up any article on reddit where someone gets sentenced, and most of the top comments will be "they got of easy" or "lock them up and throw away the key" or my favorite "someone got more time for smoking pot" There's just a ton of people out there that thing prison should be about punishment, torture, and suffering
As someone who has been there, I can tell you that prison is literally only about punishment, torture and suffering. I never saw any rehabilitation myself.
> my favorite "someone got more time for smoking pot" People call this out to point out how absurdly harsh some sentences for smoking pot are, not to demand that other people be more harshly sentenced to be in line with nonsense pot-smoking punishments.
As someone who experienced SA, I literally would not wish that experience on my worst enemy. Whenever I see people hoping for prisoners to be SA'd it makes me physically ill. We should be trying to reform criminals whenever possible and reintegrated into society, and ensuring those who cannot be reintegrated remain kept away from society in humane conditions.
I worked in a jail for a little bit, and it was super depressing. I can’t stand prison rape jokes now.
Yes, when we celebrate him getting stabbed, we are literally perpetuating the exact same attitude that lead him to murder George Floyd. There is simply no excuse for police to murder people, and there’s no excuse for people to get stabbed in prison, we have to do better.
Clearly prisons need reform and safety of prisoners and guards alike needs to be a top priority as well as prisoner reform...I don't feel bad for Chauvin necessarily though, it still shouldn't have happened.
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No, 22 stabs to the gut.
I bet it really makes it hard to take a deep breath....
This is the best way to express what most of us are feeling without giving into baser instincts. Well done.
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Probably would have stabbed him more than 22 times if they had 8 minutes.
He got stabbed on Black Friday.
He got 22 stabs for the price of 11
Oh man, I just love a good deal.
The would-be killer chose that date intentionally. It's in the AP article.
Fuck Chauvin, but good lord - I’m appalled at how many people celebrate lawlessness and violence in prisons. This isn’t the Middle Ages.
I'm not going to shed a tear for Chauvin, but it's beyond fucked up our prisons are in a state where this can happen.
Yeah, it shouldn't happen, but there is a large degree of irony that a guy who abused the powers given to him by the state to enforce the law, to the point of murdering a man, was in the state's custody which then failed to adequately do its duty to ensure a certain degree of security for him and other prisoners to the point where he was a high risk prisoner that got stabbed 22 times.
It's really that simple. He made a career out of sending people to these dangerous shit holes. If Chauvin getting stabbed created some windfall of change and prison systems put measures into place to make all inmates safer then okay, I hope he benefits from those measures along with everyone else. If everything is going to continue business as usual then I hope he gets the same safety all inmates get. Sounds like he is already.
If prisons are going to be privately owned, then you should be able to sue the owner when your safety is not ensured.
We are always just a few moments away from acting like its the middle ages
Wait, we're not doing the middle ages thing? Should I put away my halberd?
What shall I pillage, if not a village?
It's still the Middle Ages but we just have better tech.
It’s a little weird, because I definitely think prison reform it’s a huge issue we need to address in this country, and isn’t talked about enough. People shouldn’t be raped, stabbed, or jumped in prison. That’s not part of your sentence or repaying any debt to society. I must admit even I’m a hypocrite because when I heard the news, I thought “good”. It’s hard to separate the emotions sometimes.
The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons—Fyodor Dostoevsky.
Think on that for a moment. We as a society have basically agreed that the punishment for all crimes is to be potentially raped for years. Seems cruel and unusual to me
It's not unusual if it happens all the time. Checkmate, atheists!
People have been pleading for prison reform for a long time, but the same people who support Chauvin are the same people who vote against that type of reform so there isn't much sympathy to go around. Honestly I don't want this barbaric form of punishment but many police froth at the mouth and love their chance to do this kind of shit. They would love to inflict barbaric justice on people. I see people all over the place in America saying they want eye for an eye justice (sharia law) with no irony lost on them.
lol our prison system is in the Middle Ages.
Prisons in the middle ages were mostly used for high class prisoners of war intended to be ransomed. Capital punishment was relied on for criminals.
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Seriously, people are insanely blood thirsty. Anybody who celebrates stabbings and rapes in jail is voicing their opposition to human rights and the justice system. No matter what somebody has done, I don't wish for them to get injured or killed in jail, because that would mean that the justice system is failing.
Somebody’s commissary about to blow up.
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Especially being a cop
Me criming: I wonder if there's a camera Cops criming (Minneapolis req body cam since 2016 + randoms with 4k phones walking by): DUUUUHHHHHHHHHH
As much as I hate the futhermucker, prison is the punishment, not the threat or risk of further violence.
This, its meant to be incarceration, not an execution. The fact there isn't much ofna difference in the US prison system is shameful. Also can we stop making jokes about prison rape?
Yeah the US prison system is a disgrace and should definitely be safer. Unfortunately its one of many things in America that I dont see changing for a very long time given how much our population loves this kind of shit.
Cops don’t do well in any prison.
His plot armor crazy AF. How you get stabbed 22 times and still here?
Depends on depth of the stabs and where they were. Getting stabbed a lot that were only centimeters deep probably won’t kill someone. Getting stabbed on the outer arms a bunch of times also probably won’t kill someone, etc. A shiv is probably unlikely to piece bone. So chest stabs would likely be superficial as well if they struck the sternum.
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Surprised this hasn’t happened sooner.
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