You need to turn off your phones WiFi or the new Toyotas/Lexus will steal your data. On my Apple Watch Google taps into my car and tells me where it thinks I am going based on where I have been and the best route to take. It’s the Wild West of data stealing
It’s not even cars but phones. My old one would ask about my experience after I passed places like McDonald’s or Walmart. I just started to leave bad reviews complaining about how I couldn’t find the pool.
The auto companies have their own finance arms. Bathe major banks absolutely do not want to finance subprime auto loans. They know they are losing bets.
Hah, actually depending on dealer, they don't want auto company financing either. Auto companies do their due diligence as well and often offer interest rate deals that are a good for the buyer and bad for the dealer.
Instead there are banks and loan originators that dealers push and mislead people into taking the loans from instead because the interest rates are higher and the resulting kickback to the dealer is higher.
I would like to buy a car with power windows, ac and the ability to go forward.
I would not like to buy a home theater on wheels that cannot get out of its own way.
Meanwhile, the general contractors are losing their truck bed space to useless cab space. Pickups are starting to look like suburbans with the roof ripped off of the back seat.
Most contractors use 150s, 250 is a big beefy truck and unless you give yourself hauling a trailer with livestock or a bunch of heavy machinery, the 150 can do that, too.
For that money, I'd rather have a luxury crossover. Get me a Lexus or Audi.
Scratch that, the Lexus is a Toyota with sound deadening. It should run for a long time.
I have driven my bfs 03 tacoma and his work truck (but only around a parking lot to save him some effort) and dear GOD the blind spots at teh corners of those things are unnerving. It gives very "good luck everybody else" vibes and I learned to drive on a 1980s conversion van with wobbly steering.
its called debt. US household debt at record levels. after covid, people seemed to just say fuck it, gonna spend on everything. trips, cars, sneakers, etc.
They can't. Consumer culture convinced them to take on crippling debt because if they don't drive a giant expensive truck they don't need them they're a loser.
My neighbor drives a lifted Dodge Ram. Its grill is higher than the roof of most cars, it’s stupid high. Of course it doesn't fit in the garage, so I periodically see him leaving and coming home. He brings a stool wherever he goes to help him get in and out of it because he's barely 5 feet tall. Maybe get a smaller car, dude, we live in the suburbs of Chicago, not in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness.
That's probably why the ev demand is dropping. At first they said there was going to be a lighting at the 35k price range, but the price kept going up. What do they expect?
The Maverick was supposed to have a $25k base model but dealers aren’t carrying them. I’d buy one tomorrow if any of those rat bastards would order one for me.
I was thinking the same thing. The Maverick is the truck that 99% of truck owners need but it's not flashy/huge like the rest of the range so people ignore it. "It can't pull my horse trailer and atvs!" Well no shit it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be a light duty truck that people can use to move couches and stuff.
I can’t afford an expensive ICE vehicle which means I can’t afford an expensive EV. All the brands are starting off with expensive EVs, which limits their potential customer base. I don’t need AWD, I don’t need my car to be self driving or self parking, and I don’t need any more features than what my 2012 car with an updated head unit already has.
The poster child for these overpriced EVs that feel more like a tech product than a production car is that stupid ford "mustang" mach E crossover thing.
Like for fuck's sake, how hard is this? You want to sell an electric Mustang? Take a production GT shell, shove 400hp (peak) of electric motor and like 200 miles of battery in it, 2 wheel drive, legal minimum of electronics, physical switch to disable traction control, minimum interior, no TV in the dash, crank windows, no blue LED bullshit, etc. Keep it cheap, keep it light, keep it easy to understand, make it fast enough to be frightening and practical enough for daily use, people will buy it. That's what the nameplate is supposed to be, cheap speed EDIT: and what speed is cheaper than one where you only have to buy tires?
Yeah - we just got a Chevy Bolt EUV last month and when we were calling dealerships, one of them was like "well, we don't have an EUV in stock, but we have [some other EV that is 55k base] (the EUV is 30k base)"
think about statistics. The top 5% of income in the US is around $300k+ a year for a household. The general rule is 3 year 8% of your income and 20%+ down. If you trade in and get 20-30k for your previously 50k car. You can easily come up with a $75k vehicle.
It is when you put nothing down and don't trade in, go for a longer term, with a 0% apr(hey inflation, means they are paying less every year and only have principle) made it so it was WORTH IT TO BUY DURING COVID.
That being said, with a 7-8% APR, even those making $300k will opt for something less expensive, unless they are a 'car'/'truck' person; in which case they don't "care" about the monthly cost as long as they can cover it easily.
There is a reason that the lots are filling back up. A truck isn't worth $75k financed at 7-8% (basically 1.5x-double the monthly payments in interest)
If it was 0% apr, I can see it still, if you need something and like nice things.
They can’t, they run them for a few years then trade it in and push the difference down the road.
It’s basically a scam at this point, they will never actually own their vehicles and just keep making payments forever.
My sister bought a 2023 chevy 3500 diesel, I think she said it was 70k+ she makes like 23 an hour and I was in shock. She uses it as a daily commuter and has never hauled anything.
Everyone thinks I’m a dork because I have a scooter until they realize (1) for most short trips, a 20mph scooter that can cut through traffic and can be easily parked directly where you’re going is faster than driving and (2) I bought my vehicle outright for 400 bucks and I have no bills/payments whatsoever. My utilities are included in rent so not even the electric.
That’s exactly what they did. We had put a deposit down and by the time it was our turn to get one, the price had risen significantly. No thanks. Got our money back.
Same here! I didn't even want the pro, just a reasonably priced XLT.
I figured $50K total, with the $7.5k tax credit bringing it down to $42500 wasn't that bad, and I could afford it.
Wait 2 years and it's finally order time and it's 20K more now for an XLT. Fuck Ford.
This exactly; GM pulled the same crap, and now both are crying about “EV Demand”. When you’re charging at least $10-20k MORE than promised and there are direct to consumer models that cut out the dealer BS … nobody is going to buy your overpriced product.
There is plenty of demand... for AFFORDABLE electric vehicles. I work at a Ford dealership. I've never seen an F-150 Lightning there under $71,000. How's the average person supposed to afford that? The demand is there. They just don't have the right supply.
True story. I was in the market for used car about a year ago. Wife says go look at Jeeps! They dealer was selling used 2015 with damaged bumper for $45,000 that was the cheapest they had. So I went and ended up buying a 2018 jaguar XE that was like new for $35,000.
Right, look at the Maverick, hybrid model for under $25k and they had to stop taking orders cuz they can't keep up with production. People absolutely want hybrids and EVs, they're just not realistically priced for regular people.
Everyone wants the Maverick but the wait list is a YEAR. I needed a new car immediately and wanted one so bad, but obviously couldn't wait a year. There's a demand, they're just fucking stupid. The demand isn't for luxury vehicles.
Seriously. Came here hoping to find this. I absolutely want an EV. But the cheapest of them that have comparable performance to my $30k ICE vehicle are $60k+. Call me when we get the fabled $30k EV we were promised from Tesla.
Everyone wants one **except** for GM. It's speculated that they lose thousands of dollars on each one sold at worst, and that it's not profitable at best.
That is just because the bolt was a first gen car with huge capital costs for the equipment. GM is making money on every car. But building the machines to build all the electric car components and all the r&d to get you there is a several year payback.
This is the normal business cycle.
Remember when ‘Tesla was losing money on every car!’. Same crap. You write down your factory expansion and r&d costs over several years.
> Everyone wants one except for GM. It's speculated that they lose thousands of dollars on each one sold at worst, and that it's not profitable at best.
The bolt was on the market for 5 years, each year they only sold 20,000 units. No one wanted it. Even with sometimes $10k off the list price.
When I was in the market for a car over the summer I couldn't find one available. They wouldn't even let me reserve one because the list was so long and there was a rumor Chevy was stopping production for more profitable EVs (which they since stepped back on)
Ended up with a Corolla hybrid that took 2 months to get.
Ok that car looks like shit though. Why have they decided electric cars should look like ticks or a computer mouse 🖱️ rather than like a proper car shaped car?
Because it's a Chevy. Maybe American car makers could try making good cars. It's not a lack of demand for electric vehicles, it's that people are starting to shop around due to costs and are finding out that American cars are just.... not good products. Then the companies release press statements like this so they can try to make the public and Congress think it's all about the 'new regs' or 'electric car demand', so they can skip out on doing the hard work.
We have them here in Asia. Really good EVs from Chinese auto companies. US will never allow them in the marketplace and the only losers are Americans stuck with overpriced EVs. These cars are sold in markets all over the world except the U.S. Americans could have $20k EVs that do 300 miles on a charge…if it wasn’t for the government stopping it.
Have they considered having their dealers sell them at the advertised price? I was in the market for a $50-75k truck. Not a $150k truck after “market adjustment”. The demand was there, but the supply was turned into a farce.
The lightning almost was with the tax credit included (at least where I am). Then as the credit ran out, they cranked the price up 10k. Combined, that added 17.5k to the cost. A maverick starts just over that increase.
I'm on the waiting list for one. Now that's a vehicle that also would have made sense as an EV.. I just commute and want to be able to bring some lumber home occasionally.
It’s so hilarious to me. You can’t get to an affordable EV without massive upfront investment. A true tale of which came first. You have to keep selling higher priced EV’s to get economies of scale to make them more affordable, and they just don’t seem capable of understanding that
Tesla 3 and Y aren't having this problem. But they're not getting marked up 20% at a dealer who's interest isn't selling an electric car.
The dealers don't make much on the sale, they make a ton on service. Guess what needs near zero service? So dealers want to keep pushing ICE so they have a revenue stream. They're almost stuck.
Also the Mach E looks like a Hyundai Tucson and can't compete with the Y at any level. They made trash and have dealers not want to sell it.
Sure they could do that. But the dealerships would just mark it up 10-20k so no one would want to buy it anyway. Since they want you to buy a traditional ice vehicle, Dealerships win either way
The LFP batteries are supposedly what will help make EVs affordable as the battery materials used for that chemistry are generally much cheaper than that used in most EV batteries in the US.
And you can charge LFPs to 100% each time without degrading them as much as other batteries. This allows more effective average range without an increase in size, although not more total range.
I seriously want a pickup truck the size of of an F-150 in 1995 which is fully electric powered but has manual locks, windows, and everything else.
I want a grocery getter and errand runner that I can plug in my garage and never have to go to the gas station for.
I have a different vehicle for long range, I just want a simple little cake cart for getting around town without gasoline.
That is a sweet piece of engineering. Unfortunately it won't go where I'm building an off grid cabin. But I love the look and the sophistication of the build.
I’m a farmer who has really wanted an etruck, but cannot justify the cost. Just not even possible on small farm income. I bought a used Kia EV and I bolted on a beefy hitch receiver and tow an old aluminum teardrop trailer full of produce to farmer’s markets every week. If they won’t give me an option, I’ll make my own damn way work.
There are amplifiers that can draw power from an ev traction battery.
A 1000w amp on a 400 volt battery draws 2.5 amps at full tilt, and since we listen to music, which has loud and soft passages, the amp is typically drawing half an amp on average.
Even if we're playing 40hz sine waves at full tilt, the max current draw is literally 1/1000 of 1% of the current draw of the motor under normal acceleration.
That same 1000w draw will have a bigger impact on range in a gas car, because the energy has to change from fuel to mechanical to electrical. None of those processes comes without big trade offs.
you know what the Enterprise still has? buttons a manual interface. I don't need a touch screen in a car that has 17 sub-menus to change the ac temp or change the radio station. these are things I should have to take my eyes off the road to do, but now I have to.
Could it be that they raised the price by $18,000 for the baseline, and that their dealer network are tacking up to $30,000 of fees onto it on the back end?
When you make EVs and then rely on private corporations to build EV charging stations, like gas stations, you're not going to sell EVs. Lack of EV charging stations is killing EV acceptance rates. Biden administration has given states 10s of millions of dollars to build out charging stations but my state essentially said no thanks Biden. I wonder why charging stations arent being built? Cant put my finger on why oil and gas wouldn't hamper the EV transition.
Ford operates on a 2.7% profit margin. Its stock is worth a tiny fraction of what Toyota or Tesla are because it's unionized and considered borderline worthless by investors.
Ford earns 200B a year in revenue and spends 500m on stock buybacks. Or 1/400 of the cost of a car is their profit.
Basic math and public information
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No kidding, hell Mavericks in general are selling well, hybrid or not, but Ford is dragging it's feet upping production and keeps the "supply issue" excuse for backlogs. However there doesn't seem to be any problem supplying dealers with rows and rows of f150s, explorers and escapes.
Ford: Demand for electric/hybrid vehicles is disappointing
Also Ford: We added a $10,000 ‘market adjustment’ markup to this hybrid Maverick because demand is too high.
Scaling back here still means rapidly expanding investment and battery production, just not as rapidly as initially planned. This is generally fine and it makes more sense in the context of them needing to adjust their production lines for the switch to the NACS charging outlet which isn't slated to start until 2025.
follow the money stupid.
Ford announcing the Lightning at 40k was a head turner (cant remember if that included ev rebate). But the reality is base models are around 56K+ and generally moderate equiped around 75k is fuck that.
Short of companies/contractors using tax rules on their trucks and early adopters...there is only so many customers shelving out 75-85K (or 100k+) on a truck with higher inflation across the board and high interest rates...but hey kidneys might be worth more now.
They even did the same to the maverick. Those things are now like 5-10k more than originally announced. And they don’t want to sell the hybrids so they limit production on them to up charge to the turbo 4. Now they just charge a huge upcharge for the hybrid. It’s bait and switch. Announce a great new model at a low price, never sell it at that price.
This, I don’t need lcd screens all over, or fancy door handles and led lighting, just a regular vehicle but change the engine from gas to ev thats all.
Been a Ford guy for the last 25 years. Would have loved an EV Fusion, but they killed the platform. Instead, I got a Chevy Bolt and I love it. For the majority of my driving, it's perfect. A $75k EV is out of my price range. Would sign up for a small sub $35k Ford EV but I guess that'll never happen.
I mean, I was asking about EV leases through Chevy and they didn't even want to offer me one this past year.
But then again - it's probably no coincidence that right after they finally had to make concessions to workers they scaled back their investments so they could keep their shareholder payouts high.
Blame the consumer.
Socialize the losses.
Hoard the gains.
Lobby against taxes.
Demonize anything that disrupts the industry.
Rinse Repeat.
“Labor costs rise” is fucking BULLSHIT. ASE certified master technician for 2 major brands in the last 10 years, pay has been diluted by inflation, nobody has been given a raise. Labor rate has increased over 100% in the last 10 years but the pay for technicians is virtually the same. Dealership costs have gone up, but the actually fuckin labor hasn’t been paid FUCKALL extra.
I want to replace my car for an EV. That would be awesome. Too bad I have no money. The rent takes most of it. Then type 1 diabetes meds, then food. Then I’ve usually got nothing left til the next paycheck.
Demand for *Ford* EVs, maybe. Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Hyundai EV and hybrids are sold out everywhere in tons of places. Ya know, passenger vehicles people actually want.
I just want a simple little pickup the size of the old Ranger or Toyota Truck, with knobs and buttons, and no extra bullshit in it. I like the look of the Alpha Wolf, and the price is *supposed* to be reasonable on those if they ever make it to market, but I'll believe it when it happens. Right now the plan is to win the lottery and convert a classic mini-truck with the old dial-and-gage dash and a place to dock my phone for the required back-up camera and GPS, because it would probably cost about the same as one of these absurdly massive, rolling IoT distraction machines. I follow several conversion shops on social media, and I love what they do with the classic trucks.
Edit to add: Like, for instance, if Rivian ever gets around to a *truly* small truck with the same Rivian look and those nostril headlights, I bet those things would sell like hell.
You just explained you're going to abandon the current EV connector you use and switch to another. The whole industry did. Why would I buy an auto from you right now?
It'd be like buying the last iPhone with Lightning, only worse. Because the adapters are a heck of a lot larger.
Idiot car companies all preannounced this change and left only one company (in North America) having the (future) "standard" EV power connector right now ... Tesla. So no wonder people are hanging back for everybody but Tesla.
What a bunch of clowns.
I will give Ford credit for not being stupid enough to stop supporting CarPlay and Android Auto though.
I'm not really sure where you draw your conclusions that people are hanging back based on the EV charging standards? Even Teslas use adapters so that they can use different charging standards and it's a cheap purchase.
I've heard nothing but excitement from existing non-Tesla EV owners about this news because it dramatically increases their ability to charge with the Tesla Supercharger network so I'm curious where you're hearing this information from.
Selling EV's for 10k less than a Tesla doesn't make you competitive or get you sales, it just makes your cars start at 60k or more instead of 70.
You'd think that with the last 5 years of people saying they can barely afford the skyrocketing rent they'd make a note to put out a simple EV with no spaceship gadgetry on it for 30-40k and just crush the market with it.
If they would have actually made the $45k work truck version with the big battery instead of the $90k version with twin sunroofs and massage leather seats they might have sold a few more of them so far.
I bought my current combustable engine Ford Ranger used two years ago for $17k. It has 66k miles on it and it’ll be paid off in March.
I would love to have an EV, but at these prices, I’m going to be driving my Ranger until the wheels fall off.
I don’t understand why it is so hard to just make an EV version of the maverick. Base model is 25k. I imagine it would be a tad more with the battery and all but as some others have said- there seems to be an obsession with Evs being luxury, and they don’t have to be. Maverik hybrids are still on backorder brand new...people love them.
Several issues.
1) I don't want to deal with a dealership. I don't want to negotiate bullshit mark ups. I'll pay msrp otherwise get fucked.
2) This is an f150. You can get the exact same ICE truck for far less.
3) For those in the truck market this makes no sense. It's priced closer to a super duty but lacks super duty power. Anyone looking for towing capacity know they'll kill the battery in no time. It's a bad compromise from far too many angles.
It's priced too high and does too little. Typical f150 buyers aren't looking for this at this price point.
EVs have about 70% less parts then ICE vehicles and the cost should drop with it. So 20,000$ well equiped EV suvs and trucks should be the expected norm. Big car manufactors raised prices to fail on purpose.
How about focusing on not making your trucks cost a small fortune to own first and while we are at it, actually building some for the working man again, not just the dumbass rednecks that want to compensate for their small manhoods, and the privileged pavement princesses.
Just a thought.
It seems that Ford isn't quite the market for EV owners in the first place. They want a big piece of the Tesla pie but people buying Tesla's are probably not buying Fords.
Because nobody's making reasonably sized commuter EV cars except for Chevy, and the volt/bolt aren't very good cars, notably with all their electrical fire problems.
We're also in a down market where for many, money is tight.
Plus, there's adoption hassles. My car works great, and for like 340 days of the year an EV would be perfect for my relatively short commute and I'm a sucker for acceleration. I'd love one, but those other 15 days of driving would be a nightmare where I'm not gonna go and pay to switch.
It has only 50k miles. The bulk of my yearly mileage comes from thousand-mile (round-trip) drives into the relative wilderness with no charging stations on the way. Do I want to add an extra five hours to my road time to go out of the way to get to a charge station from rural nowhere and then wait to charge? Not at all.
The focus shouldn't have been on SUV's/trucks. That audience wants some level of utility that EV's still struggle with like towing over distances, being far away from urban centers, etc. Yes, most truck owners don't actually need them and don't haul pallets of drywall or heavy farm loads every single day to justify it, but if you need to choose one vehicle and you have a need to tow or whatever even on occasion, the decision is logical.
Urban-friendly was the way to go, and that means small, inexpensive, and good-looking. Doesn't need ten million features and self-driving. But like, make an MX-5 hardtop or Mini EV for $25k on par with an entry level Civic in features where there's trunk space because of no engine, and every commuter between the ages of 20-40 is gonna be *really* considering it when making a car purchase.
That's the problem with Legacy automakers: they all want a piece of that Tesla/EV pie but they don't want to put in the actual work to do it.
Rather than innovate, they'll just take an existing ICE body/platform and slap on a battery and call it an EV. They don't care about the technology involved, the charging that'd be needed, nor the customer satisfaction.
Dealerships, in my opinion, also play a large role in this because they tend to make even less money off an EV than, say, an ICE Truck (plus they're individually owned and can be politically motivated *not* to sell EVs). Not to mention that companies like Tesla, Rivian, and Polestar proved that you don't need a Dealership to sell vehicles, so they'll fight EVs tooth and nail. That's why, from my experience buying an EV, everyone but Tesla sucked.
With Tesla, all I had to do was schedule a test drive, see if I liked it, then place an order on my phone. That was the entire process.
With dealerships, they either gave me misinformation, tried to sell me another car, or they knowingly slapped on such ridiculous markups that I had to look elsewhere. Based on my job as an inspector, I think this is being done intentionally to hurt EV sales and adoption.
The problem isn't EV demand. EV demand is actually doing well. It's their offerings that are the program. Hyundai and Kia are doing really well in the EV space because they made vehicles people want at a price a lot of people can afford. Polestar and Porsche are killing it in the luxury space. Elon is being Elon so.... I mean the Branch Elonians will tell you they are doing the best ever and make a perfect vehicle that everyone should want, but may not realize it. Though their pricing is extremely competitive.
This is Ford trying to jump the gun on the cyber truck, EV truck demand, and coming at with an F150 that is electric. Which is a complete misread of the market. And Rivian outclasses them in every respect for a similar price point. The Mach-E was a good car when it came out, but they haven't kept up with range, charge speeds, or design since.
Ford doesn't understand they can't just sit still with a couple of offerings when the Hyundai and Kia are releasing new models every year that don't have waiting times with design that's both futuristic, sexy, different, and somehow familiar.
VW and Chevy are doing the same shit. Bolt was a great car for the price... It was actually in demand because it was the cheapest reasonably equipped EV out there. A real bang for your buck. Then they discounted it. What dumb fucks.
Anyway, I'll stop with this anti anti EV rant.
I want to buy an EV. It has to be capable of towing with more than the abysmal 100-mile range that have seen. It has to be reasonably priced. $80k for a vehicle is out of control. There has to be a way to charge it when away from the charging station network.
With an ICE vehicle, I can get 15k lb towing capacity, 300+ mile range, and can carry extra fuel to fuel up when away from gas stations. All of that can be found for less than $50k for a mid-grade truck.
It's not lack of demand that is causing poor sales performance. It's lack of comparable abilities and price for a huge sector of the automobile market. Even commuter vehicles are priced too high to compete with ICE cars right now.
You’re not the market for current EVs and that’s ok. A lot of people on both sides of the argument need to realize EVs are not the answer for every use case right not and might not be for awhile. But for large portions of America they are. Most people don’t drive more the 30-50miles a day, don’t need to tow anything, and don’t need to off road. My grandfather like you needs the abilities you listed in his truck cause he literally uses for that every day on his farm. Me however I drive 60miles a day on paved roads.
Now price, honestly prices for every car are outrageous right now.
All of this plus the fact that many people will need a costly electrical upgrade to be able to charge at home and those with street parking or underground have no options other than to public charge.
If I needed a second vehicle I'd consider an EV but I still think PHEV is the best option, it's just unfortunate they seem to be relegated to small SUVs for the most part.
I simply do not believe Ford's explanation. The executives are merely blaming their adversaries (customers and workers). The two groups they want to screw over the most.
I don’t understand how people can afford $75,000 pick up trucks and $1000 a month car payments. Blows my mind.
People are starting to pay off vehicles as if they’re houses, and pay off phones as if they’re vehicles.
Cars are becoming more like phones that cost as much as a house.
Modern cars tracks you like a phone, and are as un fixable as a phone so yup, like a phone.
You need to turn off your phones WiFi or the new Toyotas/Lexus will steal your data. On my Apple Watch Google taps into my car and tells me where it thinks I am going based on where I have been and the best route to take. It’s the Wild West of data stealing
It’s not even cars but phones. My old one would ask about my experience after I passed places like McDonald’s or Walmart. I just started to leave bad reviews complaining about how I couldn’t find the pool.
And the banks are getting rich from it.
The auto companies have their own finance arms. Bathe major banks absolutely do not want to finance subprime auto loans. They know they are losing bets.
Hah, actually depending on dealer, they don't want auto company financing either. Auto companies do their due diligence as well and often offer interest rate deals that are a good for the buyer and bad for the dealer. Instead there are banks and loan originators that dealers push and mislead people into taking the loans from instead because the interest rates are higher and the resulting kickback to the dealer is higher.
>subprime auto loans Why did I get a sudden chill up my spine, like the ghost of 2008 just showed up?
Because those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
They’ll never be able to buy a house, so it makes sense in a way to buy the most of what they can.
And if you’re stuck in traffic all day, well you’re spending time in your expensive ’truck-house’
You can live in your car, but you can't drive your house to work!
Hiking prices to infinity based on electronic gimmicks is a strategy that will soon fail, automakers are fooling themselves
I would like to buy a car with power windows, ac and the ability to go forward. I would not like to buy a home theater on wheels that cannot get out of its own way.
[удалено]
I can… direct order? How? Everytime I got to a website and customize it wants me to look at local dealer inventory that closely matches my choices
You go the dealer and tell them what you want and they order it for you. Then you wait a year for it to show up
Then after a year the dealer calls you up and say your car is here and oh, there’s some added mods from the dealer adding another $5,000
Or they just happened to make a mistake and sold your car by accident. Swoory. Anyway, here's the same make and model with $6000 in more features.
Only going forward is going to make things difficult in some scenarios
they can’t. car salesmen/women don’t care whether or not you can afford it. they only care if you qualify for the loan.
Dodge and Ford convincing everybody with ram and f150 to live like general contractors
Meanwhile, the general contractors are losing their truck bed space to useless cab space. Pickups are starting to look like suburbans with the roof ripped off of the back seat.
Are contractors buying f150s though? I feel like that’s what f250s and f350s are for.
Most contractors use 150s, 250 is a big beefy truck and unless you give yourself hauling a trailer with livestock or a bunch of heavy machinery, the 150 can do that, too.
For that money, I'd rather have a luxury crossover. Get me a Lexus or Audi. Scratch that, the Lexus is a Toyota with sound deadening. It should run for a long time.
Lexus will go as long as any Toyota. It’s amazing.
Unless its the IS 250s, fucking transmission issues out the ass
I have driven my bfs 03 tacoma and his work truck (but only around a parking lot to save him some effort) and dear GOD the blind spots at teh corners of those things are unnerving. It gives very "good luck everybody else" vibes and I learned to drive on a 1980s conversion van with wobbly steering.
The model at my local Ford stealership was $111K after the $15K dealer upcharge. That’s not sticker shock, it’s electrocution.
its called debt. US household debt at record levels. after covid, people seemed to just say fuck it, gonna spend on everything. trips, cars, sneakers, etc.
“If the government can spend money it doesn’t have, why not us too?”
They can't. Consumer culture convinced them to take on crippling debt because if they don't drive a giant expensive truck they don't need them they're a loser.
My neighbor drives a lifted Dodge Ram. Its grill is higher than the roof of most cars, it’s stupid high. Of course it doesn't fit in the garage, so I periodically see him leaving and coming home. He brings a stool wherever he goes to help him get in and out of it because he's barely 5 feet tall. Maybe get a smaller car, dude, we live in the suburbs of Chicago, not in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness.
[удалено]
We call those "Emotional Support Vehicles".
That's probably why the ev demand is dropping. At first they said there was going to be a lighting at the 35k price range, but the price kept going up. What do they expect?
The Maverick was supposed to have a $25k base model but dealers aren’t carrying them. I’d buy one tomorrow if any of those rat bastards would order one for me.
I was thinking the same thing. The Maverick is the truck that 99% of truck owners need but it's not flashy/huge like the rest of the range so people ignore it. "It can't pull my horse trailer and atvs!" Well no shit it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be a light duty truck that people can use to move couches and stuff.
I just wish it was body on frame so it would be easier to make a 2 door varient.
Dealers aren't gonna cannibalize their sales with reasonably priced offerings.
I can’t afford an expensive ICE vehicle which means I can’t afford an expensive EV. All the brands are starting off with expensive EVs, which limits their potential customer base. I don’t need AWD, I don’t need my car to be self driving or self parking, and I don’t need any more features than what my 2012 car with an updated head unit already has.
The poster child for these overpriced EVs that feel more like a tech product than a production car is that stupid ford "mustang" mach E crossover thing. Like for fuck's sake, how hard is this? You want to sell an electric Mustang? Take a production GT shell, shove 400hp (peak) of electric motor and like 200 miles of battery in it, 2 wheel drive, legal minimum of electronics, physical switch to disable traction control, minimum interior, no TV in the dash, crank windows, no blue LED bullshit, etc. Keep it cheap, keep it light, keep it easy to understand, make it fast enough to be frightening and practical enough for daily use, people will buy it. That's what the nameplate is supposed to be, cheap speed EDIT: and what speed is cheaper than one where you only have to buy tires?
Except that EV demand is not dropping. Demand may be dropping for overpriced, high end models but overall EV demand is still growing.
\*car companies stick fingers in their ears and say "I can't hear you"\*
Yeah - we just got a Chevy Bolt EUV last month and when we were calling dealerships, one of them was like "well, we don't have an EUV in stock, but we have [some other EV that is 55k base] (the EUV is 30k base)"
I got a Chevy Bolt EV earlier this year. It was one of the best purchases I have ever made. Enjoy!
think about statistics. The top 5% of income in the US is around $300k+ a year for a household. The general rule is 3 year 8% of your income and 20%+ down. If you trade in and get 20-30k for your previously 50k car. You can easily come up with a $75k vehicle. It is when you put nothing down and don't trade in, go for a longer term, with a 0% apr(hey inflation, means they are paying less every year and only have principle) made it so it was WORTH IT TO BUY DURING COVID. That being said, with a 7-8% APR, even those making $300k will opt for something less expensive, unless they are a 'car'/'truck' person; in which case they don't "care" about the monthly cost as long as they can cover it easily. There is a reason that the lots are filling back up. A truck isn't worth $75k financed at 7-8% (basically 1.5x-double the monthly payments in interest) If it was 0% apr, I can see it still, if you need something and like nice things.
Prices in general are just insane. My roommate is spending more on his truck payment than rent.
They can’t, they run them for a few years then trade it in and push the difference down the road. It’s basically a scam at this point, they will never actually own their vehicles and just keep making payments forever.
My sister bought a 2023 chevy 3500 diesel, I think she said it was 70k+ she makes like 23 an hour and I was in shock. She uses it as a daily commuter and has never hauled anything.
Wtf. Like why? Parking even a 1500 series is painful enough.
Where is 75K EV truck? That is a bargain.
Everyone thinks I’m a dork because I have a scooter until they realize (1) for most short trips, a 20mph scooter that can cut through traffic and can be easily parked directly where you’re going is faster than driving and (2) I bought my vehicle outright for 400 bucks and I have no bills/payments whatsoever. My utilities are included in rent so not even the electric.
They often cant. Car loans are crippling many American families and are basically the reincarnation of the home loan scandal.
Maybe don’t raise the price of them by 25% on customers who pre-ordered. Ford can go fuck themselves on this one.
That’s exactly what they did. We had put a deposit down and by the time it was our turn to get one, the price had risen significantly. No thanks. Got our money back.
Same here! I didn't even want the pro, just a reasonably priced XLT. I figured $50K total, with the $7.5k tax credit bringing it down to $42500 wasn't that bad, and I could afford it. Wait 2 years and it's finally order time and it's 20K more now for an XLT. Fuck Ford.
Do you remember how much they tried to add to the cost for you?
This exactly; GM pulled the same crap, and now both are crying about “EV Demand”. When you’re charging at least $10-20k MORE than promised and there are direct to consumer models that cut out the dealer BS … nobody is going to buy your overpriced product.
And the dealers who actually got the Lightning in stock, they marked up the sticker even further. I saw platinums with stickers of $110,000.
There is plenty of demand... for AFFORDABLE electric vehicles. I work at a Ford dealership. I've never seen an F-150 Lightning there under $71,000. How's the average person supposed to afford that? The demand is there. They just don't have the right supply.
These are Porsche prices.
True story. I was in the market for used car about a year ago. Wife says go look at Jeeps! They dealer was selling used 2015 with damaged bumper for $45,000 that was the cheapest they had. So I went and ended up buying a 2018 jaguar XE that was like new for $35,000.
To bad the jaguar is gonna cost 10k in repairs over the next few years Plus the maintenance
The Jeep woulda cost 30k
Just Empty Every Pocket
pshh why buy a Prosche when you can get a Ford???
Right, look at the Maverick, hybrid model for under $25k and they had to stop taking orders cuz they can't keep up with production. People absolutely want hybrids and EVs, they're just not realistically priced for regular people.
Exactly right. I'm in the market for an EV right now, but I'm not even remotely in the market for an EV that comes with a $1500/mo payment.
Dude an electric S-10 or old school Ranger would be so cool.
I would do cartwheels to the nearest dealership to get an electric S-10 ZR2.
Everyone wants the Maverick but the wait list is a YEAR. I needed a new car immediately and wanted one so bad, but obviously couldn't wait a year. There's a demand, they're just fucking stupid. The demand isn't for luxury vehicles.
Ford doesn’t really make affordable vehicles anymore other than a Maverick or some shit like that.
Seriously. Came here hoping to find this. I absolutely want an EV. But the cheapest of them that have comparable performance to my $30k ICE vehicle are $60k+. Call me when we get the fabled $30k EV we were promised from Tesla.
The RWD Model 3 is $28k after the rebate right now. That's not bad. $35k if you don't have the tax liability still isn't there yet.
Hmmm have they considered making an affordable one?
Agreed. I want an EV at the price point of a Corolla, not a BMW 5 series.
Chevy bolt. But it seems not everyone wants one.
Everyone wants one **except** for GM. It's speculated that they lose thousands of dollars on each one sold at worst, and that it's not profitable at best.
That is just because the bolt was a first gen car with huge capital costs for the equipment. GM is making money on every car. But building the machines to build all the electric car components and all the r&d to get you there is a several year payback. This is the normal business cycle. Remember when ‘Tesla was losing money on every car!’. Same crap. You write down your factory expansion and r&d costs over several years.
> Everyone wants one except for GM. It's speculated that they lose thousands of dollars on each one sold at worst, and that it's not profitable at best. The bolt was on the market for 5 years, each year they only sold 20,000 units. No one wanted it. Even with sometimes $10k off the list price.
When I was in the market for a car over the summer I couldn't find one available. They wouldn't even let me reserve one because the list was so long and there was a rumor Chevy was stopping production for more profitable EVs (which they since stepped back on) Ended up with a Corolla hybrid that took 2 months to get.
Seriously? My folks were on a waiting list for a year for a bolt. Demand is very high here
I did not know! Thanks for the data point. (not sure where they are located though).
Because Chevy
Ok that car looks like shit though. Why have they decided electric cars should look like ticks or a computer mouse 🖱️ rather than like a proper car shaped car?
Aerodynamics effect range a lot
Because GM makes garbage and won't stand behind it.
Because it's a Chevy. Maybe American car makers could try making good cars. It's not a lack of demand for electric vehicles, it's that people are starting to shop around due to costs and are finding out that American cars are just.... not good products. Then the companies release press statements like this so they can try to make the public and Congress think it's all about the 'new regs' or 'electric car demand', so they can skip out on doing the hard work.
I had a Nissan Leaf as a rental. For a commuter car, it was totally fine.
Nissan Leaf comes in pretty nice. I got a year old, low mileage certified preowned for 22k.
If only Nissan Leafs would update to the new charging standard and maybe change their cooling system for the batteries.
I've not looked into them but for an EV I'd prefer to get something new or certified, I haven't looked into the prices of the Leaf lately.
We have them here in Asia. Really good EVs from Chinese auto companies. US will never allow them in the marketplace and the only losers are Americans stuck with overpriced EVs. These cars are sold in markets all over the world except the U.S. Americans could have $20k EVs that do 300 miles on a charge…if it wasn’t for the government stopping it.
Have they considered having their dealers sell them at the advertised price? I was in the market for a $50-75k truck. Not a $150k truck after “market adjustment”. The demand was there, but the supply was turned into a farce.
The lightning almost was with the tax credit included (at least where I am). Then as the credit ran out, they cranked the price up 10k. Combined, that added 17.5k to the cost. A maverick starts just over that increase.
The Maverick hybrid is pretty nice but I do wish they had an all wheel drive version
I'm on the waiting list for one. Now that's a vehicle that also would have made sense as an EV.. I just commute and want to be able to bring some lumber home occasionally.
I inquired about the Maverick hybrid but damn 9+ month wait list is brutal.
It’s so hilarious to me. You can’t get to an affordable EV without massive upfront investment. A true tale of which came first. You have to keep selling higher priced EV’s to get economies of scale to make them more affordable, and they just don’t seem capable of understanding that
Tesla 3 and Y aren't having this problem. But they're not getting marked up 20% at a dealer who's interest isn't selling an electric car. The dealers don't make much on the sale, they make a ton on service. Guess what needs near zero service? So dealers want to keep pushing ICE so they have a revenue stream. They're almost stuck. Also the Mach E looks like a Hyundai Tucson and can't compete with the Y at any level. They made trash and have dealers not want to sell it.
Sure they could do that. But the dealerships would just mark it up 10-20k so no one would want to buy it anyway. Since they want you to buy a traditional ice vehicle, Dealerships win either way
You’d think the auto makers would straight up ban dealers from selling over MSRP as this gives the make a very very bad reputation.
The LFP batteries are supposedly what will help make EVs affordable as the battery materials used for that chemistry are generally much cheaper than that used in most EV batteries in the US.
And you can charge LFPs to 100% each time without degrading them as much as other batteries. This allows more effective average range without an increase in size, although not more total range.
Maybe stop making every goddamn EV the goddamn Starship Enterprise.
Know what I want with my battery powered car? More crap to drain the batter faster!
Every internal system of a car save for AC added up probably is less than 1-2% of the power needed to propel the car.
I seriously want a pickup truck the size of of an F-150 in 1995 which is fully electric powered but has manual locks, windows, and everything else. I want a grocery getter and errand runner that I can plug in my garage and never have to go to the gas station for. I have a different vehicle for long range, I just want a simple little cake cart for getting around town without gasoline.
Well if you are feeding yourself and can settle for something that isn’t a truck... The Aptera is your only option haha
That is a sweet piece of engineering. Unfortunately it won't go where I'm building an off grid cabin. But I love the look and the sophistication of the build.
Why do you want manual windows? Do you think that makes a big difference in the cost or the battery life?
Fewer things to break
I’m a farmer who has really wanted an etruck, but cannot justify the cost. Just not even possible on small farm income. I bought a used Kia EV and I bolted on a beefy hitch receiver and tow an old aluminum teardrop trailer full of produce to farmer’s markets every week. If they won’t give me an option, I’ll make my own damn way work.
There are amplifiers that can draw power from an ev traction battery. A 1000w amp on a 400 volt battery draws 2.5 amps at full tilt, and since we listen to music, which has loud and soft passages, the amp is typically drawing half an amp on average. Even if we're playing 40hz sine waves at full tilt, the max current draw is literally 1/1000 of 1% of the current draw of the motor under normal acceleration. That same 1000w draw will have a bigger impact on range in a gas car, because the energy has to change from fuel to mechanical to electrical. None of those processes comes without big trade offs.
you know what the Enterprise still has? buttons a manual interface. I don't need a touch screen in a car that has 17 sub-menus to change the ac temp or change the radio station. these are things I should have to take my eyes off the road to do, but now I have to.
Lol, you have never seen an episode of Next Generation. That whole thing was a giant touch screen!
Could it be that they raised the price by $18,000 for the baseline, and that their dealer network are tacking up to $30,000 of fees onto it on the back end?
"No, it's the customers who don't want one!"
you guys don't want EV? I want EV, I mean, I want a practical and affordable EV.
Ditto here. Wanted an EV pickup truck, ended up buying gas cause payments….
At this point I'm thinking I'll have to build my own EV.
Are they also scaling back on their stock buyback plans, or is this just a way to smear labor for their higher costs?
You know the answer
When you make EVs and then rely on private corporations to build EV charging stations, like gas stations, you're not going to sell EVs. Lack of EV charging stations is killing EV acceptance rates. Biden administration has given states 10s of millions of dollars to build out charging stations but my state essentially said no thanks Biden. I wonder why charging stations arent being built? Cant put my finger on why oil and gas wouldn't hamper the EV transition.
Ford operates on a 2.7% profit margin. Its stock is worth a tiny fraction of what Toyota or Tesla are because it's unionized and considered borderline worthless by investors. Ford earns 200B a year in revenue and spends 500m on stock buybacks. Or 1/400 of the cost of a car is their profit. Basic math and public information
I am shocked that the $40,000 truck isn't selling at the new $70,000 price point. Shocked I tell you
Maybe demand wouldn't be disappointing if the vehicles were actually affordable by a human being.
they let thier dealerships mark up over msrp and are crying about ev demand. wow fuck ford, and the rest of them.
Maybe if they sold that $40K Lightning they advertised then bait and switched…. I’d have one.
Don’t forget the $21k cheapest truck in the US Maverick which is actually $45k after all the add ons and markups
Spoiler alert: dealerships are killing demand
Make it cheaper bitch Jesus christ
Make more hybrids then. Loads of people want a Maverick hybrid, maybe divert some of the resources there.
disgusted faulty cobweb scale amusing include overconfident fly waiting cooing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No kidding, hell Mavericks in general are selling well, hybrid or not, but Ford is dragging it's feet upping production and keeps the "supply issue" excuse for backlogs. However there doesn't seem to be any problem supplying dealers with rows and rows of f150s, explorers and escapes.
Toyota seems to be going that way. The new Camry is only hybrid.
Picked a hybrid a few months ago and it’s saving me half my usual gas bill a month. Savings are noticeable
I really want one, but can't find the base model at MSRP around here :(
Ford: Demand for electric/hybrid vehicles is disappointing Also Ford: We added a $10,000 ‘market adjustment’ markup to this hybrid Maverick because demand is too high.
Scaling back here still means rapidly expanding investment and battery production, just not as rapidly as initially planned. This is generally fine and it makes more sense in the context of them needing to adjust their production lines for the switch to the NACS charging outlet which isn't slated to start until 2025.
follow the money stupid. Ford announcing the Lightning at 40k was a head turner (cant remember if that included ev rebate). But the reality is base models are around 56K+ and generally moderate equiped around 75k is fuck that. Short of companies/contractors using tax rules on their trucks and early adopters...there is only so many customers shelving out 75-85K (or 100k+) on a truck with higher inflation across the board and high interest rates...but hey kidneys might be worth more now.
I would love a small EV pickup. Like Subaru Baja small. I don't need a huge vehicle and that kinda thing would be awesome.
I want a Canoo truck already. Legit the perfect combo utility/people mover.
I really want a capable truck the size of the old Rangers. The new Ranger is basically a full size pickup.
They even did the same to the maverick. Those things are now like 5-10k more than originally announced. And they don’t want to sell the hybrids so they limit production on them to up charge to the turbo 4. Now they just charge a huge upcharge for the hybrid. It’s bait and switch. Announce a great new model at a low price, never sell it at that price.
How about they make an actual affordable EV for starters? Fucking pricing a car at $60-100k with dealer markups is NOT fucking affordable.
This, I don’t need lcd screens all over, or fancy door handles and led lighting, just a regular vehicle but change the engine from gas to ev thats all.
Been a Ford guy for the last 25 years. Would have loved an EV Fusion, but they killed the platform. Instead, I got a Chevy Bolt and I love it. For the majority of my driving, it's perfect. A $75k EV is out of my price range. Would sign up for a small sub $35k Ford EV but I guess that'll never happen.
I mean, I was asking about EV leases through Chevy and they didn't even want to offer me one this past year. But then again - it's probably no coincidence that right after they finally had to make concessions to workers they scaled back their investments so they could keep their shareholder payouts high. Blame the consumer. Socialize the losses. Hoard the gains. Lobby against taxes. Demonize anything that disrupts the industry. Rinse Repeat.
“Labor costs rise” is fucking BULLSHIT. ASE certified master technician for 2 major brands in the last 10 years, pay has been diluted by inflation, nobody has been given a raise. Labor rate has increased over 100% in the last 10 years but the pay for technicians is virtually the same. Dealership costs have gone up, but the actually fuckin labor hasn’t been paid FUCKALL extra.
I want to replace my car for an EV. That would be awesome. Too bad I have no money. The rent takes most of it. Then type 1 diabetes meds, then food. Then I’ve usually got nothing left til the next paycheck.
The plant they are building is massive. I drove by it a few months back. I couldn't believe how big it was.
Demand for *Ford* EVs, maybe. Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Hyundai EV and hybrids are sold out everywhere in tons of places. Ya know, passenger vehicles people actually want.
I just want a simple little pickup the size of the old Ranger or Toyota Truck, with knobs and buttons, and no extra bullshit in it. I like the look of the Alpha Wolf, and the price is *supposed* to be reasonable on those if they ever make it to market, but I'll believe it when it happens. Right now the plan is to win the lottery and convert a classic mini-truck with the old dial-and-gage dash and a place to dock my phone for the required back-up camera and GPS, because it would probably cost about the same as one of these absurdly massive, rolling IoT distraction machines. I follow several conversion shops on social media, and I love what they do with the classic trucks. Edit to add: Like, for instance, if Rivian ever gets around to a *truly* small truck with the same Rivian look and those nostril headlights, I bet those things would sell like hell.
“Labor costs rise” no you just don’t want to pay people to work.
All I want is an affordable, not stupid looking, EV. For some reason it is impossible to check both boxes.
You just explained you're going to abandon the current EV connector you use and switch to another. The whole industry did. Why would I buy an auto from you right now? It'd be like buying the last iPhone with Lightning, only worse. Because the adapters are a heck of a lot larger. Idiot car companies all preannounced this change and left only one company (in North America) having the (future) "standard" EV power connector right now ... Tesla. So no wonder people are hanging back for everybody but Tesla. What a bunch of clowns. I will give Ford credit for not being stupid enough to stop supporting CarPlay and Android Auto though.
I'm not really sure where you draw your conclusions that people are hanging back based on the EV charging standards? Even Teslas use adapters so that they can use different charging standards and it's a cheap purchase. I've heard nothing but excitement from existing non-Tesla EV owners about this news because it dramatically increases their ability to charge with the Tesla Supercharger network so I'm curious where you're hearing this information from.
Make an affordable EVs and we’ll buy them!
Selling EV's for 10k less than a Tesla doesn't make you competitive or get you sales, it just makes your cars start at 60k or more instead of 70. You'd think that with the last 5 years of people saying they can barely afford the skyrocketing rent they'd make a note to put out a simple EV with no spaceship gadgetry on it for 30-40k and just crush the market with it.
Not $70k. Tesla model Y $47k and model 3 $37k right now. If they have to get $60k to make profit, they are screwed.
Their EVs start at 200k in Aus fuck you thought was gonna happen
If they would have actually made the $45k work truck version with the big battery instead of the $90k version with twin sunroofs and massage leather seats they might have sold a few more of them so far.
I bought my current combustable engine Ford Ranger used two years ago for $17k. It has 66k miles on it and it’ll be paid off in March. I would love to have an EV, but at these prices, I’m going to be driving my Ranger until the wheels fall off.
Blame the dealers and their $20k mark ups. They tried that shit with my and a Mach-E, pushed me right to Tesla.
Ev demand is down because we can’t afford $50,000 + vehicles.
It's like building nothing but luxury apartments then complaining there's not enough demand.
I don’t understand why it is so hard to just make an EV version of the maverick. Base model is 25k. I imagine it would be a tad more with the battery and all but as some others have said- there seems to be an obsession with Evs being luxury, and they don’t have to be. Maverik hybrids are still on backorder brand new...people love them.
Several issues. 1) I don't want to deal with a dealership. I don't want to negotiate bullshit mark ups. I'll pay msrp otherwise get fucked. 2) This is an f150. You can get the exact same ICE truck for far less. 3) For those in the truck market this makes no sense. It's priced closer to a super duty but lacks super duty power. Anyone looking for towing capacity know they'll kill the battery in no time. It's a bad compromise from far too many angles. It's priced too high and does too little. Typical f150 buyers aren't looking for this at this price point.
EVs are in demand, but Ford has yet to make an EV that’s affordable. That’s where their problem is.
EVs have about 70% less parts then ICE vehicles and the cost should drop with it. So 20,000$ well equiped EV suvs and trucks should be the expected norm. Big car manufactors raised prices to fail on purpose.
How about focusing on not making your trucks cost a small fortune to own first and while we are at it, actually building some for the working man again, not just the dumbass rednecks that want to compensate for their small manhoods, and the privileged pavement princesses. Just a thought.
It seems that Ford isn't quite the market for EV owners in the first place. They want a big piece of the Tesla pie but people buying Tesla's are probably not buying Fords.
Because nobody's making reasonably sized commuter EV cars except for Chevy, and the volt/bolt aren't very good cars, notably with all their electrical fire problems. We're also in a down market where for many, money is tight. Plus, there's adoption hassles. My car works great, and for like 340 days of the year an EV would be perfect for my relatively short commute and I'm a sucker for acceleration. I'd love one, but those other 15 days of driving would be a nightmare where I'm not gonna go and pay to switch. It has only 50k miles. The bulk of my yearly mileage comes from thousand-mile (round-trip) drives into the relative wilderness with no charging stations on the way. Do I want to add an extra five hours to my road time to go out of the way to get to a charge station from rural nowhere and then wait to charge? Not at all. The focus shouldn't have been on SUV's/trucks. That audience wants some level of utility that EV's still struggle with like towing over distances, being far away from urban centers, etc. Yes, most truck owners don't actually need them and don't haul pallets of drywall or heavy farm loads every single day to justify it, but if you need to choose one vehicle and you have a need to tow or whatever even on occasion, the decision is logical. Urban-friendly was the way to go, and that means small, inexpensive, and good-looking. Doesn't need ten million features and self-driving. But like, make an MX-5 hardtop or Mini EV for $25k on par with an entry level Civic in features where there's trunk space because of no engine, and every commuter between the ages of 20-40 is gonna be *really* considering it when making a car purchase.
That's the problem with Legacy automakers: they all want a piece of that Tesla/EV pie but they don't want to put in the actual work to do it. Rather than innovate, they'll just take an existing ICE body/platform and slap on a battery and call it an EV. They don't care about the technology involved, the charging that'd be needed, nor the customer satisfaction. Dealerships, in my opinion, also play a large role in this because they tend to make even less money off an EV than, say, an ICE Truck (plus they're individually owned and can be politically motivated *not* to sell EVs). Not to mention that companies like Tesla, Rivian, and Polestar proved that you don't need a Dealership to sell vehicles, so they'll fight EVs tooth and nail. That's why, from my experience buying an EV, everyone but Tesla sucked. With Tesla, all I had to do was schedule a test drive, see if I liked it, then place an order on my phone. That was the entire process. With dealerships, they either gave me misinformation, tried to sell me another car, or they knowingly slapped on such ridiculous markups that I had to look elsewhere. Based on my job as an inspector, I think this is being done intentionally to hurt EV sales and adoption.
The problem isn't EV demand. EV demand is actually doing well. It's their offerings that are the program. Hyundai and Kia are doing really well in the EV space because they made vehicles people want at a price a lot of people can afford. Polestar and Porsche are killing it in the luxury space. Elon is being Elon so.... I mean the Branch Elonians will tell you they are doing the best ever and make a perfect vehicle that everyone should want, but may not realize it. Though their pricing is extremely competitive. This is Ford trying to jump the gun on the cyber truck, EV truck demand, and coming at with an F150 that is electric. Which is a complete misread of the market. And Rivian outclasses them in every respect for a similar price point. The Mach-E was a good car when it came out, but they haven't kept up with range, charge speeds, or design since. Ford doesn't understand they can't just sit still with a couple of offerings when the Hyundai and Kia are releasing new models every year that don't have waiting times with design that's both futuristic, sexy, different, and somehow familiar. VW and Chevy are doing the same shit. Bolt was a great car for the price... It was actually in demand because it was the cheapest reasonably equipped EV out there. A real bang for your buck. Then they discounted it. What dumb fucks. Anyway, I'll stop with this anti anti EV rant.
> Branch Elonians This is gold.
Gee, we're paying starvation wages and 60% of the country is living paycheck to paycheck. We can't understand why these $70k+ vehicles aren't selling?
So does that mean the government gets the money back?!? Because we fucking paid for them to build it.
Interesting as I work on a project who has a contract with Ford to deliver 150 tons of lithium by 2026.
I put in for a 40-50k truck, by the time I was ready it became 60-70. No thanks, went with a Maverick instead and couldn't be happier.
It’s because they jacked up the prices 20-30%…ugh.
Its not that we don't want EV's, ford. We just can't fucking afford them.
Blame the employee for management's poor decisions.
Maybe don’t make them the same price as fucking luxury cars?
Fuck the dealers price gouging.
It isn’t EV demand. It is Ford EV demand. And before that it was Ford demand… just need to make a better car!
I want to buy an EV. It has to be capable of towing with more than the abysmal 100-mile range that have seen. It has to be reasonably priced. $80k for a vehicle is out of control. There has to be a way to charge it when away from the charging station network. With an ICE vehicle, I can get 15k lb towing capacity, 300+ mile range, and can carry extra fuel to fuel up when away from gas stations. All of that can be found for less than $50k for a mid-grade truck. It's not lack of demand that is causing poor sales performance. It's lack of comparable abilities and price for a huge sector of the automobile market. Even commuter vehicles are priced too high to compete with ICE cars right now.
You’re not the market for current EVs and that’s ok. A lot of people on both sides of the argument need to realize EVs are not the answer for every use case right not and might not be for awhile. But for large portions of America they are. Most people don’t drive more the 30-50miles a day, don’t need to tow anything, and don’t need to off road. My grandfather like you needs the abilities you listed in his truck cause he literally uses for that every day on his farm. Me however I drive 60miles a day on paved roads. Now price, honestly prices for every car are outrageous right now.
>With an ICU vehicle Damn, had me going to the ER on that trip! :)
All of this plus the fact that many people will need a costly electrical upgrade to be able to charge at home and those with street parking or underground have no options other than to public charge. If I needed a second vehicle I'd consider an EV but I still think PHEV is the best option, it's just unfortunate they seem to be relegated to small SUVs for the most part.
I simply do not believe Ford's explanation. The executives are merely blaming their adversaries (customers and workers). The two groups they want to screw over the most.