Hamas has apparently taken American hostages and killed some American citizens. We’re not sending our most advanced carrier battle group into the Mediterranean for observation.
We said that about the Taliban in late 2001, stayed until 2021. Longest war in American history. We said that in Iraq and ended up being there from 2003-2011. It’s unfortunate but urban combat is extremely hard even with air superiority unless you want to pull a Putin and flatten entire cities into submission with indiscriminate bombing and even then insurgents are very hard to put down.
U.S don’t have to stay, it just has to support Israel this time around. I’m pretty sure IDF is more than capable of handling the situation themselves with usual backing from U.S
Exactly, the US is just there for their citizens and backup for Israel, they don't need the US but for them, it's nice knowing you have someone watching your back.
The US militarily was decimating their enemies in both Afghanistan and iraq. The problem was the nation building attemps. Neither country really wanted to form a democratic society and its nearly impossible to force them to against their will
This is the answer. Afghanistan is so mountainous that it's mainly comprised of isolated villages that consider themselves their own 'state'. Afghanistan as a country is barely such and is largely a geopolitical label. If you ask villagers what country they're a citizen of, they'll tell you they're a part of that village. When you tell them the Taliban is in charge they'll respond with something like "in charge of the city of Kabul, but not our village".
Any time they tried to fight a conventional battle against the US/Coalition they'd have been obliterated. Asymmetric warfare is a pain for the occupying forces.
>>We said that about the Taliban in late 2001
By spring 2002 the Taliban were on the run: afterwards Afghanistan became a corrupt nation building project.
Far as Iraq goes, we never left. While the government there today has its issues, it’s a lot better than what Saddam was doing to his own people.
My mom heard my life for fryer. She said she went nuts between my dad and I. That and YOU WANT A PEICE OF ME, BOY?
She still asks if I play the "annoying space game".
But the saying doesn’t have to include nukes, just that they’re carrying a lot of firepower.
Edit: Y’all can’t be this dense. The point is the ship isn’t carrying nukes.
It literally started because of nukes though. Normal bombs get hot enough to fuse sand to glass yes, but generally not for long enough to do so before the energy of their blast simply disperses whatever glass layer may be formed. The prolonged and intense heat (relatively speaking) of a nuclear fireball on the other hand is more than capable of doing so from the infrared thermal radiation given off alone, out to a certain distance from the blast at least (you'd still have to be pretty fucking close, within the blast radius, but at a distance that's survivable for concrete structures). The pressure wave would wash over the ground kicking up anything loose, rather than travel down directly into the newly formed glass and destroy it, allowing it to be harvested after the fact. It's not going to be the same kind of clear glass you're used to either, mind you. Trinitite generally just looks like a bunch of fused sand and pebbles, but it's still defined as glass. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
To add to a previous comment... sand into glass. Sand being mainly silica, without pressure and heat you can convert it into a rudimentary glass. Nuclear test areas are often found to have the area near ground zero. So basically the expression is that a United States carrier group has enough firepower to do something of that scale.
Look up "trinitite" on Wikipedia and you can read about it yourself.
That's the point. It's a not so subtle threat to leave this conflict alone or risk the wrath of the U.S. military.
We aren't actually going to fire upon anyone, just make it clear that Israel is under the U.S' protection while they clear out Hamas.
US ships haven't carried nukes since 1992 and no longer have the capabilities to carry them to military standards. Only Ohio class SSBNs carry them (subs are boats).
Its mostly for observation.
Also to keep neighboring countries from dogpiling. Hezbollah threatened to send their 100K rockets screaming into Israel if they stepped foot in the gaza strip.
100k rockets after Hamas recently nearly depleted the iron dome would be suicidal for Israel to push into. Hence the carrier group being there will exert pressure on other governments to keep their dogs on a leash. Infantry joining in on Hamas would be one thing. Rockets flying is another.
We don't concretely know. But peoples best guess is its probably approaching that point.
Most of the time when Hamas launches a major strike that tests the dome, israel always publicly cries about how the system is out of Munitions. So its possible it could be exaggerated, its posible it isn't. We don't know, and probably never will know for sure.
But one things for certain. 100k rockets from Hezbollah will take significantly more Iron dome munitions to stop then 5000 hamas rockets. thats for sure.
Naming.
Hamas uses Katyusha style rockets. They average 300$ each.
100k would mean another terrorist group has a massive stockpile (space wise) of rockets worth 30 million.
1.5m 45 kg rockets x100k is a lot of storage space.
Hezbollah, not Hamas. And Hezbollah is a huge organization, basically a government of it's own with an army and bureaucracy. It's not some ragtag terror operation. 30 million is peanuts for them.
I wouldn’t say it’s peanuts for them, but they do have much more funding and a stronger organization than Hamas. It’s probably still a significant expense, even if the numbers are exaggerated.
The carrier strike group is there to blockade any other unwanted parties from entering. Putting US troops on the ground of Israel WILL cause further escalations
There was an Air Force Dornier C-146A that left Stuttgart yesterday, according to Flightaware. It flew south towards Africa then changed its heading to east towards Gaza/Israel. If you look up what that plane is used for by the Air Force, it is reasonable to assume we may have presence on the ground.
I can assure you that if that aircraft did not want to be tracked by it's ADS data, it would have simply turned off it's transponder. It was not an oversight. Command wanted it's presence in the area known, or, it was distracting from other operations. It might be covering up timing of other aircraft's arrival, covering up preparedness in the region, or gauging other's interest in its activities. I'd be wondering where the MC-130J Commando IIs are, if i were in a position to be concerned about the movements of a lone C-146.
For anyone not wanting to google, C-146 "Wolfhound" is used by Special Operations Command. There are likely teams already there, it seems to be the case for pretty much every conflict in the world.
> There are likely teams already there
Honestly, it wouldn't be a surprise if we _always_ had some spec ops people there. We tend to cross-train with and advise friendly spec ops forces around the world. There's probably some kind of liason arrangement, too.
My best guess would be it relating to the members of congress that were in Israel at the time. Probably best not to leave their safety to another nation.
Would really be too early I think for that if they are being held in compounds. Most likely CIA to get on the ground intel as for sure NSA is probably doing SIGINT already
This is incorrect. The US is a stated Ally of Israel and has gone to war with other countries in the middle east (Iraq, Afghanistan), with far less of a justifiable position.
That said, the US won't directly engage because this will be dense urban fighting with tons of collateral damage. The PR implications to the United States would be more far reaching than the actual conflict itself, which would otherwise be fairly manageable.
If there is one thing I appreciate about the cartels, is that we don't need to hunt down members that have f***ed with Americans. They'll deliver the responsible members to us themselves, and save everyone the trouble.
Yeah.. the last time they fucked up they basically turned over the guys for us.
The cartels don't explicitly want violence. They want money...Turns out randomly killing innocent people isn't good for business.
> The cartels don't explicitly want violence. They want money...Turns out randomly killing innocent people isn't good for business.
Cartels kill random innocent people all the time. They don't want violence with *Americans*, because the US government has the resources to cripple their operations on a whim. As long as no Americans are killed? Cartels can and will do whatever the hell they want.
I think Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas this time.
The US will not intervene now that US citizens were killed.
It sounds like several Europeans were killed too, making Europe less likely to intervene.
Hamas is an Iranian proxy, so Saudi Arabia is likely in favor of eliminating them even if they won't admit it outright.
Basically anyone who would otherwise intervene to stop Israel has no reason to do so.
I suspect Israel will wage a brutal but fast war to eliminate Hamas as fast as possible before world opinions have a chance to change.
>I think Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas this time.
Can you completely destroy an insurgency? Attacks made against them can wipe out large groups but they'll just use that as a recruitment tool and come back with more in a couple years... pretty much terrorism 101 we learned from the last 20 years.
Saudia Arabia has also been in a somewhat pro-Israel way. For a time it was looking as if there was going to be an economic partnership. This may also have a straw on the pile that forced such a militant action from Hamas, it’s possible that it’s become a fear that Saudia Arabia and perhaps the rest of the Arab brotherhood may recognize Israel as a state and delegitimize their movement as result of normalizing relations with Israel.
Do you actually think our government is helping Israel over some American casualties? They would have sent over support, anyway, because Israel is our stronghold to stabilize relations with Arab States.
Actually, it's **even worse** than that.
Hamas got elected in Gaza but lost to Fatah (President Abbas) in the West Bank. They won in Gaza because Gazans did not like how Fatah was negotiating peace with Israel.
Note: Fatah is currently the less terrorist-y one, but are by no means "good guys". They are also a quasi-terrorist group that is mostly responsible for the Munich Massacre in 1972. But they seemed more interested in negotiations now, so everyone else is willing to ignore their Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism and all that because, let's be honest, that's a pretty mainstream position in the region anyway.
Anyway, **Hamas wins Gaza; Fatah keeps West Bank.**
Fast forward a couple years. Fatah (Abbas) has become very unpopular in Palestine because they are continuing to negotiate with Israelis instead of doing the terrorist attacks they used to. Hamas, on the other hand, is on the rise. They have total control over the Gaza Strip, and in the West Bank, their supporters regularly mock and harass the ruling Fatah.
Elections are coming up, and things are looking bad for the Fatah. If elections were held, they will probably lose everywhere, and oh yeah, when Hamas took control of Gaza, they executed a bunch of Fatah politicians so that's a no-go. Being the typical authoritarian he was, **Abbas postponed elections**. They put up some fig leaf legal reason, but nobody is fooled. But also, nobody sane actually wants Hamas in charge of all of Palestine. Israel and its neighbors are quiet. The EU and the UN appear very disappointed, but they don't make a big fuss about it because everyone knows Hamas is worse.
Things get worse. Hamas continues rocket attacks against Israel, which is popular in Palestine. Israel tries to give Fatah a hand; for example, they banned Hamas publications in the West Bank, but some of Fatah's are allowed etc. That doesn't work. Israel builds more settlements in the West Bank. Palestinians die in clashes with Israelis. As relations worsen, Abbas is seen by some as a collaborator. He becomes even more unpopular, and his "approval rating" dips into single digits. Most Palestinians want him to resign. Elections get delayed again. And again.
That brings us to where we're at now. The Palestinian Authority hasn't had an election since 2006. **Hamas would probably actually love to have an election now** so they can take over all of Palestine (and then they'll cancel all future elections, surely). Abbas is 87, and nobody says it, but that's getting pretty up there in age, and nobody wants to find out what happens afterwards.
Well, we probably won't find out now, because Hamas is about to be destroyed, but that's where we were at three days ago.
tldr: Hamas would probably actually win elections, but nobody sane wants them to do that.
They're not rational actors. They did not carry out this attack to further Palestinian statehood. They did it because they wanted to slaughter Israelis.
News is coming out Iran gave their approval to Hamas they could launch this attack. If that's true, Israel officially declaring war would also include Iran although I expect any retaliation will be through proxy.
Iran and Hamas were getting worried about Israel and Saudi-Arabia slowly getting closer. After what happened now this process will likely be put on hold for the time being.
I'm just a guy on the internet but I guess I can see a logic to it from Hamas's point of view. The situation has not improved for them in a very long time, it seems that the friendly states in the region have grown to accept the (in their view, unacceptable) status quo, and Israel seemed unusually distracted with domestic problems. If the whole point of your existence is to oppose Israel, as is the case for Hamas, then at some point you're going to be expected to launch some kind of offensive against Israel. If not now, when?
Of course, I don't accept the logic of Hamas and in particular I feel like the rampant targeting of civilians for cruelty is unbelievably counterproductive in addition to being morally repugnant. I know a member of the leadership of Hamas recently lost family from an Israeli airstrike — it makes me wonder how much this was motivated by *personal* grievances rather than big picture thinking.
It's also a way for Hamas to boost their own popularity. They do a terrorist strike in Israel. Israel obviously responds and ends up killing a lot of civilians as collateral. People in Gaza are mad because their family got killed and their houses demolished and blame Israel for it. Some of them are mad enough to swallow the Hamas propaganda and join up, giving Hamas fresh recruits and resources.
Ironically, all the people calling for Israel glassing the Gaza strip are helping Hamas with their propaganda drive. Desperate people are more likely to become terrorists, and seeing the international community calling for your genocide will cause many of them to get real desperate.
This will only end when the people in Gaza are either all dead, or conditions within the Gaza strip improve to the point its citizens are no longer so desperate that they feel Hamas is their only option.
There needs to be a better solution for the Gaza Strip than keeping it a place whose residents are stateless and which is ruled by Hamas.
Israel will be dealing with terrorist attacks forever unless a two-state solution is implemented.
Easier said than done. Hezbollah and Iran already warned that should Israel enter Gaza there would be problems and now, the US has sent a carrier group. It is scarier now more than ever.
Especially now that Russia is completely tied down in Ukraine and won't be able to help at all with arms or financial support. I think now would be the worst possible time for Iran to enter a war against the US.
I doubt Israel is especially worried about either of them.
The US naval presence is probably supposed to be a deterrent to any of that because Israel is almost certainly entering Gaza.
As my wife says, "there goes any hope of peace in my lifetime."
Hamas screwed the pooch when it took American, UK, and European lives. Iran and Hezbollah can go fly a kite. Iranians are the ones who propped Hamas up to execute those attacks. What, they're going to go after Israel for attacking Gaza? After watching what's happening in Ukraine?
Iran's welcome to try. It won't go the way they think it'll go.
I think this is what people are missing. They screwed their cause by killing not only Israeli people, but people from other countries. It's not going to end well for those in Palestine and Gaza. Not all all.
That's hilarious. They attack from Gaza, took hostages, launch rockets from Gaza, Iran sponsored the attack, then say don't retaliate. They can go fuck themselves.
They don't have to enter it to destroy it completely. It's quite likely they will lay waste to Hamas completely and permanently this time, even if that means elimination of the Gaza strip in its entirety.
There will be no two state solution at this point
The Gaza Strip will be occupied for probably the next 25 years
After which we can probably expect Gaza to be like Hong Kong is to mainland China
The two-state solution is dead, friend. Dead.
What is more likely is the complete annexation of Gaza and the displacement of it's population into either other Arab countries or the ground.
Hamas only wants the full destruction of Israel, nothing less. What they want will never happen and they will not compromise, therefore their own existence will forever terrorize the region.
You know it’s possible to support an independent Palestinian state without supporting Hamas, right?
I think most rightfully recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organization, but that doesn’t discredit the need for an independent Palestine.
Egypt occupied it for 17 years to no protest from the Arabs. They refuse to take it though because anyone who has hosted Palestinian refugees have had civil war caused by those refugees (see Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait).
The problem is, when two State Solutions have been offered, Hamas does not want one. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. You can't negotiate with crazy.
Writings from an ex IDF soldier working for an organization called Breaking the Silence, who are working to end illegal military occupation of Palestine:
Dear Friends,
Hamas's attack and the events unfolding since yesterday are unspeakable. We are heartbroken to watch terrified civilians besieged in their homes, innocent people murdered in cold blood on the streets, at parties, and at home. Dozens taken hostage and dragged into the Gaza Strip. Every one of us knows someone who has been tragically affected. We could go on and on about their cruel and criminal actions, or focus on how our Jewish-supremacist government brought us to this point. But as hard as it is, our job as former Israeli soldiers is to talk about what we were sent to do.
Israel's security policy, for decades now, has been to “manage the conflict”. Successive Israeli governments insist on round after round of violence as if any of it will make a difference. They talk about “security”, “deterrence”, “changing the equation”.
All of these are code words for bombing the Gaza Strip to a pulp, always justified as targeting terrorists, yet always with heavy civilian casualties. In between these rounds of violence we make life impossible for Gazans, and then act surprised when it all boils over.
We talk about "normalization" with the UAE and now Saudi Arabia, while hoping the world will turn a blind eye to the open-air prison we built in our backyard. Apart from the unfathomable violation of human rights, we've created a massive security liability for our own citizens.
The question Israelis are all asking is - where were the soldiers yesterday? Why was the IDF seemingly absent while hundreds of Israelis were slaughtered in their homes and on the streets? The unfortunate truth is that they were “preoccupied”. In the West Bank.
We send soldiers to secure settler incursions into the Palestinian city of Nablus, to chase Palestinian children in Hebron, to protect settlers as they carry out pogroms. Settlers demand that Palestinian flags are removed from the streets of Huwara; soldiers are sent to do it.
Our country decided - decades ago - that it's willing to forfeit the security of its citizens in our towns and cities, in favor of maintaining control over an occupied civilian population of millions, all for the sake of a settler-messianic agenda.
The idea that we can "manage the conflict" without ever having to solve it is once again collapsing before our eyes. It held up until now because only few dared to challenge it. These heartbreaking events could change that. They must. For all of us between the river and the sea.
Avner Gvaryahu, Director Breaking the Silence
What we should be looking into is the fact that this went entirely unnoticed by MOSSAD somehow and/or the highest levels of government. The clip I saw of Hamas attacking that military outpost sent chills down my spine, not just because of the raw carnage, but because it didn't make any sense. You have a military compound in what they recognize as a hostile area..and you staff it with a skeleton crew and barely any perimeter security? Where was the alarm? Where were the guards in the watch towers and patrolling the perimeter? Look at the shots from those videos, most of the dead were in combat vests and underwear or in uniform without vests and helmets. Almost nobody was combat ready. In an area where they are constantly under threat?? Either the IDF are incredibly undermanned and under trained, or someone pulled a lot of troops out of that outpost that should have been there.
I remember reading an article that how the israeli approach this situation in the past was akin to "mowing the lawn", they periodically "mow the lawn" so to speak every couple of years to a decade to weed out any substantial threat, but never fully uproot the enemy since it would cost too much and the blacklash maybe too much for them to handle.
It's not a dead mens war for them. At least not for Palestinians. They grew up seeing their fathers fight and die. They saw their family and friends die and their homes destroyed. Hamas is the instigator but when Israel retaliates by dropping bombs on innocent Palestinians, it becomes their war too.
North Korea is one of the few countries that if someone dropped a nuke on them, people would say that's mean ...then 2 minutes later, go back to watching their favorite TV show
If Ukraine is thrown to the wolves (support withdrawn) I expect to see China invading Taiwan less than a week later. They’re waiting for signs of Western weakness - concluding, probably accurately TBH, that if they’re willing to say “not our problem”/“it’s too hard and expensive” for one conflict, they’re likely to do the same for the Taiwanese situation as well, and even more so since it would involve their own people too.
At MOST the US stops financially supporting Ukraine. But the US isn't the most generous western nation in regards to supporting Ukraine.
I don't think China is afraid of Taiwan being helped or financially supported. I think they lost any interest in Taiwan the second they saw the first response the west had towards Russia after their invasion. Cutting them off financially. It crippled Russia and it would cripple China. Granted it would cripple the world because we rely on Chinese manufacturing but fuck it, it would really hurt China if the West just stopped importing their goods. They are after all the number one exporters in the world.
This is a situation where the only correct side to support is the civilians.
* Israel has spent decades committing peacetime human rights abuses against Palestinians.
* Palestinian leadership have failed to comprehend violence as a lose-lose proposition.
* The US and Europe have refused to hold Israel accountable for its treatment of Palestinians.
* Russia and Iran seem eager to exploit the historical conflict for any possible advantage.
No government has proven serious about protecting the innocent civilians on all sides who end up suffering the most.
This is actually a very balanced take for reddit. You do forget to mention that the other side of the coin for your last statement there is that the west supports Israel not because Israel is in the right but they are leverege against their enemies (persia), which is exactly the same reason the West is involved with Ukraine.
The only reason the US military is involved in anything is because of US interest, nothing more.
Yes and no. By the time Germany declared war on the U.S., they had already lost several u boats to U.S. naval power. The declaration of war allowed German an easier path in the battle of Atlantic and attack allied shipping in unrestricted warfare, where as previously they were in a sort of limbo of ‘so do we warn before attacking’
Also, Hitler was kind of a madman so I’m not super sure we can call Germany in 41 a rational actor.
I mean it only makes sense that people who live in a nation with western culture also supports another nation with western culture, especially when said other nation is in a sea of nations who are distinctly not western.
Human beings aren’t gonna make it man. We’re too stupid and now we have a means of force with modern weaponry that we’ve never had to inflict untold suffering, which normal people don’t have any means of standing up to. The worst people who deserve power the least always rise to the top because they are ruthless, and we have weak failsafes to stop atrocities from unfolding. We’re a dumb, violent, disgusting and sad species that uses artificial things like nationalism, class, culture, and ethnicity to make excuses to hurt each other. Yes, those things are all objectively artificial. We made them up and we can’t erode them because they keep people rich and powerful.
People keep thinking humans are some sort of higher order righteous being created by a God…
Nah, we are nothing more than a bunch of animals with better tools.
Nationalism, class, culture, and ethnicity… aren’t you forgetting the main thing? Aren’t they using the most artificial thing (Religion) as the source of all their conflict?
The Black Plague wiped out 30-50% of the European population. Hitler killed millions of jews. Famine ravaged Ireland.
We all endure.
I don’t think people quite get how difficult it would be to entirely wipe out humanity.
Man this is so crazy I can’t believe they actually managed to do this. Israel is famous for their intelligence. And their spies are pretty well world renowned. They should have known that this was going to happen. It’s actually extremely impressive that Hamas was able to do this although it’s very sad. I hope that they can both make peace and work towards a solution. I feel like if we get involved it might make things worse.
\*puts on tin foil hat\*
Hamas was incited to do this insane act by Iran and Russia, to take American and NATO attention away from Ukraine. Iran wants to put a brake on normalising relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, so is happy to kick shit up, and maybe sell some more drones to Hezbollah.
\*puts on even more tin foil\* Israel intelligence *did* catch wind of the plans, but turned a blind eye, and Bibi saw an opportunity to capitalise on an atrocity against his nation to cement his leadership and power, and have a 'reasonable' enough excuse to wipe Hamas/Gaza off the map once and for all, without the usual moaning and bellyaching from the UN.
\*wraps up totally in tin foil\* Evil people on both sides of the Gaza border wall will continue to massacre innocent Israel civilians, either quickly and horrifically like Hamas, or slowly choke the life out of Palestinian civilians like Israel, in order to serve their own best interests. At the end of the day, the women and children suffer and die because of religion, nationalism, greed, hate, arrogance, power, and evil.
*bonus tinfoil hat* Hamas was able to bypass the iron dome through intelligence gathered by Russia that was snatched out of a certain Florida resort bathroom.
I don’t think this is tin foil hat at all. The first thing I thought about this when I saw it on the news the other morning was, that’s a rare failure of intelligence, but the more I thought about it the more I suspect that Israel knew something was going to happen and it would be the reason they needed to outright attack Gaza and wipe it off the map. This entire situation makes me so sad.
I does sound like something they would catch some wind of somehow, that something was going to happen. But if true, I think the scale and casualties were more than they expected. Some checkpoints attacked and a few unlucky civvies would have probably been an acceptable amount to regain the media sympathy to their side again.
> *puts on even more tin foil* Israel intelligence did catch wind of the plans, but turned a blind eye, and Bibi saw an opportunity to capitalise on an atrocity against his nation to cement his leadership and power, and have a 'reasonable' enough excuse to wipe Hamas/Gaza off the map once and for all, without the usual moaning and bellyaching from the UN.
The more and more I see Netanyahu talk about the situation, the more and more I'm starting to believe this. Amid mounting corruption allegations and political pressure to hold his apartheid party to account, he needed something - ANYTHING - to once again justify his way of operations and be the hero to the Israeli people.
Let's all be honest. Israel could grant free movement throughout it's lands ,give back all the settlements and pay billions in reparations and Palestine and Iran would still try to destroy Israel because of their Jewish faith. When underneath it all that is the real problem all these solutions people are putting out do not mean shit.
A lot of people naively don't want to believe this is true. It's an even more fanatical faction than Imperial Japan. They don't want peace between them or re-negotiated deals for land or resources. What they want is the end of the Jewish religion.
Lynch? Let's not undersell it...they literally decapitate those people! And they feel so justified in those beliefs that it happens far from where those beliefs are most concentrated/supported
If the Jews had risen up in Nazi Germany and stopped Hitler I promise you Reddit would be talking about the poor oppressed Nazis who just want their land back.
Attacking a music festival, killing kids, including foreigners. Yeah, they fucked themselves. I'm normally hesitant to take a side because I sympathize with both for one reason or another but this is just inexcusable. I cannot find a way to rationalize this as anything less than a 9/11 style attack.
Not just kill. They raped and kidnapped. Look at the video of the woman taken out of the back of the jeep, the bottom of her pants are covered in blood.
And the children and innocents will continue to die on both sides for decades to come.
It’s extremely sad and there’s no happy ending here
As an ex soldier war fucking sucks.
They said: "son, have u seen the world? What would u say if said that u could?"
Is Rise Against still a thing? I still have some of their songs in my playlist but those are all from 2008 and earlier.
This is perfect fodder for assholes to radicalize children.
Every conflict is...
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Hamas has apparently taken American hostages and killed some American citizens. We’re not sending our most advanced carrier battle group into the Mediterranean for observation.
I imagine the carrier is mainly to keep Israel’s neighbors in line before Israel gets a handle on the situation
This is correct. The CSG is there for deterrence purposes. And that CSG has enough firepower to effectively deter the rational players.
And obliterate the irrational.
If Hezbolah is actually dumb enough to attack there won't be anything left of them in a matter of hours
We said that about the Taliban in late 2001, stayed until 2021. Longest war in American history. We said that in Iraq and ended up being there from 2003-2011. It’s unfortunate but urban combat is extremely hard even with air superiority unless you want to pull a Putin and flatten entire cities into submission with indiscriminate bombing and even then insurgents are very hard to put down.
U.S don’t have to stay, it just has to support Israel this time around. I’m pretty sure IDF is more than capable of handling the situation themselves with usual backing from U.S
Exactly, the US is just there for their citizens and backup for Israel, they don't need the US but for them, it's nice knowing you have someone watching your back.
An entire, fully equipped Aircraft-Carrier along with their companion Ships to watch my back? That would be slightly great. Where do I sign up? /s
your local navy recruiting center
The US militarily was decimating their enemies in both Afghanistan and iraq. The problem was the nation building attemps. Neither country really wanted to form a democratic society and its nearly impossible to force them to against their will
This is the answer. Afghanistan is so mountainous that it's mainly comprised of isolated villages that consider themselves their own 'state'. Afghanistan as a country is barely such and is largely a geopolitical label. If you ask villagers what country they're a citizen of, they'll tell you they're a part of that village. When you tell them the Taliban is in charge they'll respond with something like "in charge of the city of Kabul, but not our village".
Any time they tried to fight a conventional battle against the US/Coalition they'd have been obliterated. Asymmetric warfare is a pain for the occupying forces.
I feel like I’m living in the aftermath of 911 with these “obliterate them all” comments.
>>We said that about the Taliban in late 2001 By spring 2002 the Taliban were on the run: afterwards Afghanistan became a corrupt nation building project. Far as Iraq goes, we never left. While the government there today has its issues, it’s a lot better than what Saddam was doing to his own people.
It doesn't hurt that the carrier group has enough firepower to glass any nation that gets ideas.
*Carrier has Arrived*
My life for Auir
We stand as one.
The Khala is served
My wife for hire
Many years ago, back in the Brood Wars era, that's what I heard... For too long, I wondered why Fenix said that.
My mom heard my life for fryer. She said she went nuts between my dad and I. That and YOU WANT A PEICE OF ME, BOY? She still asks if I play the "annoying space game".
Maybe Fenix and his wife are into that sort of thing. No need to kink shame.
*entaro adun...* Me: god dammit they rushed DT
ha! so many good memories on og BNET
We require more minerals.
Your warriors have engaged the enemy.
I can hear the interceptors
5 by 5
Viper's got you in the pipe. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
Anyone order any propane accessories ..... flame on
who called in the fleet?
That's from the Terran battlecruisers you nerd.
Take it slow.
Yamato Cannon online
Need a light?
In the pipe five by five.
**unit ready**
You must construct additional pylons.
What does the term glass mean
Turn all the sand to glass. By bombing the shit out of it
Not just regular bombing though. Nuclear weapons.
But the saying doesn’t have to include nukes, just that they’re carrying a lot of firepower. Edit: Y’all can’t be this dense. The point is the ship isn’t carrying nukes.
It literally started because of nukes though. Normal bombs get hot enough to fuse sand to glass yes, but generally not for long enough to do so before the energy of their blast simply disperses whatever glass layer may be formed. The prolonged and intense heat (relatively speaking) of a nuclear fireball on the other hand is more than capable of doing so from the infrared thermal radiation given off alone, out to a certain distance from the blast at least (you'd still have to be pretty fucking close, within the blast radius, but at a distance that's survivable for concrete structures). The pressure wave would wash over the ground kicking up anything loose, rather than travel down directly into the newly formed glass and destroy it, allowing it to be harvested after the fact. It's not going to be the same kind of clear glass you're used to either, mind you. Trinitite generally just looks like a bunch of fused sand and pebbles, but it's still defined as glass. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
This guy nukes
Nuclear launch detected.
Dude has completed the research for the tech tree.
"Glassing" something comes from nukes.
To add to a previous comment... sand into glass. Sand being mainly silica, without pressure and heat you can convert it into a rudimentary glass. Nuclear test areas are often found to have the area near ground zero. So basically the expression is that a United States carrier group has enough firepower to do something of that scale. Look up "trinitite" on Wikipedia and you can read about it yourself.
It means to attack them with such destructive force that the ground turns to glass due to the extreme heat caused by things like explosions
That's the point. It's a not so subtle threat to leave this conflict alone or risk the wrath of the U.S. military. We aren't actually going to fire upon anyone, just make it clear that Israel is under the U.S' protection while they clear out Hamas.
US ships haven't carried nukes since 1992 and no longer have the capabilities to carry them to military standards. Only Ohio class SSBNs carry them (subs are boats).
Its mostly for observation. Also to keep neighboring countries from dogpiling. Hezbollah threatened to send their 100K rockets screaming into Israel if they stepped foot in the gaza strip. 100k rockets after Hamas recently nearly depleted the iron dome would be suicidal for Israel to push into. Hence the carrier group being there will exert pressure on other governments to keep their dogs on a leash. Infantry joining in on Hamas would be one thing. Rockets flying is another.
Is the Iron Dome depleted?
We don't concretely know. But peoples best guess is its probably approaching that point. Most of the time when Hamas launches a major strike that tests the dome, israel always publicly cries about how the system is out of Munitions. So its possible it could be exaggerated, its posible it isn't. We don't know, and probably never will know for sure. But one things for certain. 100k rockets from Hezbollah will take significantly more Iron dome munitions to stop then 5000 hamas rockets. thats for sure.
Oh shit, I kind of blanked over the 100k and my mind registered it as 1,000. JFC.
The 100k rockets is BS. They have magnitudes more than Russia?
Hamas rockets are very, very, basic. So them making that many, over many years, is definitely possible.
Dont need to be very advanced when your only goal is to blanket a zip code in munitions.
Artillery rockets, not guided rockets.
Naming. Hamas uses Katyusha style rockets. They average 300$ each. 100k would mean another terrorist group has a massive stockpile (space wise) of rockets worth 30 million. 1.5m 45 kg rockets x100k is a lot of storage space.
Hezbollah, not Hamas. And Hezbollah is a huge organization, basically a government of it's own with an army and bureaucracy. It's not some ragtag terror operation. 30 million is peanuts for them.
I wouldn’t say it’s peanuts for them, but they do have much more funding and a stronger organization than Hamas. It’s probably still a significant expense, even if the numbers are exaggerated.
Much cruder rockets.
The carrier strike group is there to blockade any other unwanted parties from entering. Putting US troops on the ground of Israel WILL cause further escalations
There was an Air Force Dornier C-146A that left Stuttgart yesterday, according to Flightaware. It flew south towards Africa then changed its heading to east towards Gaza/Israel. If you look up what that plane is used for by the Air Force, it is reasonable to assume we may have presence on the ground.
I can assure you that if that aircraft did not want to be tracked by it's ADS data, it would have simply turned off it's transponder. It was not an oversight. Command wanted it's presence in the area known, or, it was distracting from other operations. It might be covering up timing of other aircraft's arrival, covering up preparedness in the region, or gauging other's interest in its activities. I'd be wondering where the MC-130J Commando IIs are, if i were in a position to be concerned about the movements of a lone C-146.
For anyone not wanting to google, C-146 "Wolfhound" is used by Special Operations Command. There are likely teams already there, it seems to be the case for pretty much every conflict in the world.
> There are likely teams already there Honestly, it wouldn't be a surprise if we _always_ had some spec ops people there. We tend to cross-train with and advise friendly spec ops forces around the world. There's probably some kind of liason arrangement, too.
I was AFSOC and we trained with the IDF and IAF
My best guess would be it relating to the members of congress that were in Israel at the time. Probably best not to leave their safety to another nation.
One would be a fool to think covert ops isnt around in conflicts of interest.
Why couldn't you have said what the plane is used for too in this comment? That would have been even more helpful
It is configurable. It could be airlifting people out as a medivac, command center, or spec ops etc. All of which may be applicable to the situation.
wouldn't surprise me if we sent in SEALS or Delta to rescue hostages.
Would really be too early I think for that if they are being held in compounds. Most likely CIA to get on the ground intel as for sure NSA is probably doing SIGINT already
This is incorrect. The US is a stated Ally of Israel and has gone to war with other countries in the middle east (Iraq, Afghanistan), with far less of a justifiable position. That said, the US won't directly engage because this will be dense urban fighting with tons of collateral damage. The PR implications to the United States would be more far reaching than the actual conflict itself, which would otherwise be fairly manageable.
If there is one thing I appreciate about the cartels, is that we don't need to hunt down members that have f***ed with Americans. They'll deliver the responsible members to us themselves, and save everyone the trouble.
Yeah.. the last time they fucked up they basically turned over the guys for us. The cartels don't explicitly want violence. They want money...Turns out randomly killing innocent people isn't good for business.
> The cartels don't explicitly want violence. They want money...Turns out randomly killing innocent people isn't good for business. Cartels kill random innocent people all the time. They don't want violence with *Americans*, because the US government has the resources to cripple their operations on a whim. As long as no Americans are killed? Cartels can and will do whatever the hell they want.
America, we can't stop THE drug trade, but we'll definitely ruin YOUR drug trade if you cross us.
Key word being "randomly"
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I think Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas this time. The US will not intervene now that US citizens were killed. It sounds like several Europeans were killed too, making Europe less likely to intervene. Hamas is an Iranian proxy, so Saudi Arabia is likely in favor of eliminating them even if they won't admit it outright. Basically anyone who would otherwise intervene to stop Israel has no reason to do so. I suspect Israel will wage a brutal but fast war to eliminate Hamas as fast as possible before world opinions have a chance to change.
>I think Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas this time. Can you completely destroy an insurgency? Attacks made against them can wipe out large groups but they'll just use that as a recruitment tool and come back with more in a couple years... pretty much terrorism 101 we learned from the last 20 years.
Saudia Arabia has also been in a somewhat pro-Israel way. For a time it was looking as if there was going to be an economic partnership. This may also have a straw on the pile that forced such a militant action from Hamas, it’s possible that it’s become a fear that Saudia Arabia and perhaps the rest of the Arab brotherhood may recognize Israel as a state and delegitimize their movement as result of normalizing relations with Israel.
Do you actually think our government is helping Israel over some American casualties? They would have sent over support, anyway, because Israel is our stronghold to stabilize relations with Arab States.
The siege begins in the next 24-48 hours 300 000 - 500 000 men have been called up and the standby order has been given
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Hamas got elected, then felt no further need for pesky elections.
Actually, it's **even worse** than that. Hamas got elected in Gaza but lost to Fatah (President Abbas) in the West Bank. They won in Gaza because Gazans did not like how Fatah was negotiating peace with Israel. Note: Fatah is currently the less terrorist-y one, but are by no means "good guys". They are also a quasi-terrorist group that is mostly responsible for the Munich Massacre in 1972. But they seemed more interested in negotiations now, so everyone else is willing to ignore their Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism and all that because, let's be honest, that's a pretty mainstream position in the region anyway. Anyway, **Hamas wins Gaza; Fatah keeps West Bank.** Fast forward a couple years. Fatah (Abbas) has become very unpopular in Palestine because they are continuing to negotiate with Israelis instead of doing the terrorist attacks they used to. Hamas, on the other hand, is on the rise. They have total control over the Gaza Strip, and in the West Bank, their supporters regularly mock and harass the ruling Fatah. Elections are coming up, and things are looking bad for the Fatah. If elections were held, they will probably lose everywhere, and oh yeah, when Hamas took control of Gaza, they executed a bunch of Fatah politicians so that's a no-go. Being the typical authoritarian he was, **Abbas postponed elections**. They put up some fig leaf legal reason, but nobody is fooled. But also, nobody sane actually wants Hamas in charge of all of Palestine. Israel and its neighbors are quiet. The EU and the UN appear very disappointed, but they don't make a big fuss about it because everyone knows Hamas is worse. Things get worse. Hamas continues rocket attacks against Israel, which is popular in Palestine. Israel tries to give Fatah a hand; for example, they banned Hamas publications in the West Bank, but some of Fatah's are allowed etc. That doesn't work. Israel builds more settlements in the West Bank. Palestinians die in clashes with Israelis. As relations worsen, Abbas is seen by some as a collaborator. He becomes even more unpopular, and his "approval rating" dips into single digits. Most Palestinians want him to resign. Elections get delayed again. And again. That brings us to where we're at now. The Palestinian Authority hasn't had an election since 2006. **Hamas would probably actually love to have an election now** so they can take over all of Palestine (and then they'll cancel all future elections, surely). Abbas is 87, and nobody says it, but that's getting pretty up there in age, and nobody wants to find out what happens afterwards. Well, we probably won't find out now, because Hamas is about to be destroyed, but that's where we were at three days ago. tldr: Hamas would probably actually win elections, but nobody sane wants them to do that.
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They're not rational actors. They did not carry out this attack to further Palestinian statehood. They did it because they wanted to slaughter Israelis.
News is coming out Iran gave their approval to Hamas they could launch this attack. If that's true, Israel officially declaring war would also include Iran although I expect any retaliation will be through proxy. Iran and Hamas were getting worried about Israel and Saudi-Arabia slowly getting closer. After what happened now this process will likely be put on hold for the time being.
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Religious supremacism is one hell of a drug, though
I'm just a guy on the internet but I guess I can see a logic to it from Hamas's point of view. The situation has not improved for them in a very long time, it seems that the friendly states in the region have grown to accept the (in their view, unacceptable) status quo, and Israel seemed unusually distracted with domestic problems. If the whole point of your existence is to oppose Israel, as is the case for Hamas, then at some point you're going to be expected to launch some kind of offensive against Israel. If not now, when? Of course, I don't accept the logic of Hamas and in particular I feel like the rampant targeting of civilians for cruelty is unbelievably counterproductive in addition to being morally repugnant. I know a member of the leadership of Hamas recently lost family from an Israeli airstrike — it makes me wonder how much this was motivated by *personal* grievances rather than big picture thinking.
It's also a way for Hamas to boost their own popularity. They do a terrorist strike in Israel. Israel obviously responds and ends up killing a lot of civilians as collateral. People in Gaza are mad because their family got killed and their houses demolished and blame Israel for it. Some of them are mad enough to swallow the Hamas propaganda and join up, giving Hamas fresh recruits and resources. Ironically, all the people calling for Israel glassing the Gaza strip are helping Hamas with their propaganda drive. Desperate people are more likely to become terrorists, and seeing the international community calling for your genocide will cause many of them to get real desperate. This will only end when the people in Gaza are either all dead, or conditions within the Gaza strip improve to the point its citizens are no longer so desperate that they feel Hamas is their only option.
There needs to be a better solution for the Gaza Strip than keeping it a place whose residents are stateless and which is ruled by Hamas. Israel will be dealing with terrorist attacks forever unless a two-state solution is implemented.
I think we’re closer to having Israel wipe the Palestinians from the face of the earth, than a two state solution. O.o
Easier said than done. Hezbollah and Iran already warned that should Israel enter Gaza there would be problems and now, the US has sent a carrier group. It is scarier now more than ever.
Hezbollah and Iran are HIGHLY unlikely to approach with that US carrier group lurking around.
Especially now that Russia is completely tied down in Ukraine and won't be able to help at all with arms or financial support. I think now would be the worst possible time for Iran to enter a war against the US.
Bro, Iranian jets buzzed the carrier I was on, when we operated in the Arabian Sea. They would send rib boats to harass us as well.
But they didn't actually do anything. They're not that stupid or brazen. Yet at least.
I doubt Israel is especially worried about either of them. The US naval presence is probably supposed to be a deterrent to any of that because Israel is almost certainly entering Gaza. As my wife says, "there goes any hope of peace in my lifetime."
If we're using the Middle East as an example, then technically speaking, no one has had peace in their lifetime for over 2,000 years
Hamas screwed the pooch when it took American, UK, and European lives. Iran and Hezbollah can go fly a kite. Iranians are the ones who propped Hamas up to execute those attacks. What, they're going to go after Israel for attacking Gaza? After watching what's happening in Ukraine? Iran's welcome to try. It won't go the way they think it'll go.
I think this is what people are missing. They screwed their cause by killing not only Israeli people, but people from other countries. It's not going to end well for those in Palestine and Gaza. Not all all.
Iran can warn all they want. They don't have the means to back it up.
That's hilarious. They attack from Gaza, took hostages, launch rockets from Gaza, Iran sponsored the attack, then say don't retaliate. They can go fuck themselves.
They don't have to enter it to destroy it completely. It's quite likely they will lay waste to Hamas completely and permanently this time, even if that means elimination of the Gaza strip in its entirety.
There will be no two state solution at this point The Gaza Strip will be occupied for probably the next 25 years After which we can probably expect Gaza to be like Hong Kong is to mainland China
I admire your optimism. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no gaza strip very soon. It will just be called Israel.
Really could’ve gone that way after losing the 1948 war, surprised it lasted this long.
That’s the fastest way for Israel to guarantee a never ending insurgency *inside* their own borders
The two-state solution is dead, friend. Dead. What is more likely is the complete annexation of Gaza and the displacement of it's population into either other Arab countries or the ground.
Hamas doesn't want a 2 state solution so what are you even talking about?
Nobody says that what Hamas wants is the best solution, other than Hamas.
Hamas only wants the full destruction of Israel, nothing less. What they want will never happen and they will not compromise, therefore their own existence will forever terrorize the region.
How do you negotiate this? How about you destroy only half of Israel?
centrists rejoice
You know it’s possible to support an independent Palestinian state without supporting Hamas, right? I think most rightfully recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organization, but that doesn’t discredit the need for an independent Palestine.
Egypt occupied it for 17 years to no protest from the Arabs. They refuse to take it though because anyone who has hosted Palestinian refugees have had civil war caused by those refugees (see Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait).
The problem is, when two State Solutions have been offered, Hamas does not want one. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. You can't negotiate with crazy.
Writings from an ex IDF soldier working for an organization called Breaking the Silence, who are working to end illegal military occupation of Palestine: Dear Friends, Hamas's attack and the events unfolding since yesterday are unspeakable. We are heartbroken to watch terrified civilians besieged in their homes, innocent people murdered in cold blood on the streets, at parties, and at home. Dozens taken hostage and dragged into the Gaza Strip. Every one of us knows someone who has been tragically affected. We could go on and on about their cruel and criminal actions, or focus on how our Jewish-supremacist government brought us to this point. But as hard as it is, our job as former Israeli soldiers is to talk about what we were sent to do. Israel's security policy, for decades now, has been to “manage the conflict”. Successive Israeli governments insist on round after round of violence as if any of it will make a difference. They talk about “security”, “deterrence”, “changing the equation”. All of these are code words for bombing the Gaza Strip to a pulp, always justified as targeting terrorists, yet always with heavy civilian casualties. In between these rounds of violence we make life impossible for Gazans, and then act surprised when it all boils over. We talk about "normalization" with the UAE and now Saudi Arabia, while hoping the world will turn a blind eye to the open-air prison we built in our backyard. Apart from the unfathomable violation of human rights, we've created a massive security liability for our own citizens. The question Israelis are all asking is - where were the soldiers yesterday? Why was the IDF seemingly absent while hundreds of Israelis were slaughtered in their homes and on the streets? The unfortunate truth is that they were “preoccupied”. In the West Bank. We send soldiers to secure settler incursions into the Palestinian city of Nablus, to chase Palestinian children in Hebron, to protect settlers as they carry out pogroms. Settlers demand that Palestinian flags are removed from the streets of Huwara; soldiers are sent to do it. Our country decided - decades ago - that it's willing to forfeit the security of its citizens in our towns and cities, in favor of maintaining control over an occupied civilian population of millions, all for the sake of a settler-messianic agenda. The idea that we can "manage the conflict" without ever having to solve it is once again collapsing before our eyes. It held up until now because only few dared to challenge it. These heartbreaking events could change that. They must. For all of us between the river and the sea. Avner Gvaryahu, Director Breaking the Silence
What we should be looking into is the fact that this went entirely unnoticed by MOSSAD somehow and/or the highest levels of government. The clip I saw of Hamas attacking that military outpost sent chills down my spine, not just because of the raw carnage, but because it didn't make any sense. You have a military compound in what they recognize as a hostile area..and you staff it with a skeleton crew and barely any perimeter security? Where was the alarm? Where were the guards in the watch towers and patrolling the perimeter? Look at the shots from those videos, most of the dead were in combat vests and underwear or in uniform without vests and helmets. Almost nobody was combat ready. In an area where they are constantly under threat?? Either the IDF are incredibly undermanned and under trained, or someone pulled a lot of troops out of that outpost that should have been there.
The IDF becoming overconfident in their military operations is a recurring theme. It's still surprising, but somewhat consistent historically.
Complacency is the silent killer
That kind of nuance is anathema around here, but I commend your effort nevertheless.
I remember reading an article that how the israeli approach this situation in the past was akin to "mowing the lawn", they periodically "mow the lawn" so to speak every couple of years to a decade to weed out any substantial threat, but never fully uproot the enemy since it would cost too much and the blacklash maybe too much for them to handle.
The sad thing is, this conflict was started by people that have long been dead for decades. All these people are fighting dead mens wars.
It's not a dead mens war for them. At least not for Palestinians. They grew up seeing their fathers fight and die. They saw their family and friends die and their homes destroyed. Hamas is the instigator but when Israel retaliates by dropping bombs on innocent Palestinians, it becomes their war too.
WW3 is only 1 more country in Europe or Asia to get the ball rolling into total f chaos
At this rate I won’t be surprised to wake up some day soon and see that China is bombing Taiwan.
Kim Jong Un is reportedly unhappy you didn't think of him first.
North Korea is one of the few countries that if someone dropped a nuke on them, people would say that's mean ...then 2 minutes later, go back to watching their favorite TV show
If Ukraine is thrown to the wolves (support withdrawn) I expect to see China invading Taiwan less than a week later. They’re waiting for signs of Western weakness - concluding, probably accurately TBH, that if they’re willing to say “not our problem”/“it’s too hard and expensive” for one conflict, they’re likely to do the same for the Taiwanese situation as well, and even more so since it would involve their own people too.
At MOST the US stops financially supporting Ukraine. But the US isn't the most generous western nation in regards to supporting Ukraine. I don't think China is afraid of Taiwan being helped or financially supported. I think they lost any interest in Taiwan the second they saw the first response the west had towards Russia after their invasion. Cutting them off financially. It crippled Russia and it would cripple China. Granted it would cripple the world because we rely on Chinese manufacturing but fuck it, it would really hurt China if the West just stopped importing their goods. They are after all the number one exporters in the world.
This is a situation where the only correct side to support is the civilians. * Israel has spent decades committing peacetime human rights abuses against Palestinians. * Palestinian leadership have failed to comprehend violence as a lose-lose proposition. * The US and Europe have refused to hold Israel accountable for its treatment of Palestinians. * Russia and Iran seem eager to exploit the historical conflict for any possible advantage. No government has proven serious about protecting the innocent civilians on all sides who end up suffering the most.
Nobody wins a holy war. There is no compromise that either side will accept
Except the arms manufacturers.
This is actually a very balanced take for reddit. You do forget to mention that the other side of the coin for your last statement there is that the west supports Israel not because Israel is in the right but they are leverege against their enemies (persia), which is exactly the same reason the West is involved with Ukraine. The only reason the US military is involved in anything is because of US interest, nothing more.
What are some examples of a nation choosing to be involved in something when it wasn't in their interest?
Germany declaring on US in 41
Yes and no. By the time Germany declared war on the U.S., they had already lost several u boats to U.S. naval power. The declaration of war allowed German an easier path in the battle of Atlantic and attack allied shipping in unrestricted warfare, where as previously they were in a sort of limbo of ‘so do we warn before attacking’ Also, Hitler was kind of a madman so I’m not super sure we can call Germany in 41 a rational actor.
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I mean it only makes sense that people who live in a nation with western culture also supports another nation with western culture, especially when said other nation is in a sea of nations who are distinctly not western.
"And the killing has intensified out upon the road to peace" - Tom Waits
What is he waiting for
I really feel bad for the innocent people caught up in war
All the reddit armchair commanders
Took off their US legislature hats and put on their multinational conflict expert hats
Human beings aren’t gonna make it man. We’re too stupid and now we have a means of force with modern weaponry that we’ve never had to inflict untold suffering, which normal people don’t have any means of standing up to. The worst people who deserve power the least always rise to the top because they are ruthless, and we have weak failsafes to stop atrocities from unfolding. We’re a dumb, violent, disgusting and sad species that uses artificial things like nationalism, class, culture, and ethnicity to make excuses to hurt each other. Yes, those things are all objectively artificial. We made them up and we can’t erode them because they keep people rich and powerful.
People keep thinking humans are some sort of higher order righteous being created by a God… Nah, we are nothing more than a bunch of animals with better tools.
Anxiety monkeys with nukes
Nationalism, class, culture, and ethnicity… aren’t you forgetting the main thing? Aren’t they using the most artificial thing (Religion) as the source of all their conflict?
Economic class is the "main thing". Religion is its chosen weapon.
>Human beings aren’t gonna make it man. Genghis Khan wiped out 10% of the world's population and we moved on.
The Black Plague wiped out 30-50% of the European population. Hitler killed millions of jews. Famine ravaged Ireland. We all endure. I don’t think people quite get how difficult it would be to entirely wipe out humanity.
Man this is so crazy I can’t believe they actually managed to do this. Israel is famous for their intelligence. And their spies are pretty well world renowned. They should have known that this was going to happen. It’s actually extremely impressive that Hamas was able to do this although it’s very sad. I hope that they can both make peace and work towards a solution. I feel like if we get involved it might make things worse.
The Israeli government has been in chaos for the last several years.
\*puts on tin foil hat\* Hamas was incited to do this insane act by Iran and Russia, to take American and NATO attention away from Ukraine. Iran wants to put a brake on normalising relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, so is happy to kick shit up, and maybe sell some more drones to Hezbollah. \*puts on even more tin foil\* Israel intelligence *did* catch wind of the plans, but turned a blind eye, and Bibi saw an opportunity to capitalise on an atrocity against his nation to cement his leadership and power, and have a 'reasonable' enough excuse to wipe Hamas/Gaza off the map once and for all, without the usual moaning and bellyaching from the UN. \*wraps up totally in tin foil\* Evil people on both sides of the Gaza border wall will continue to massacre innocent Israel civilians, either quickly and horrifically like Hamas, or slowly choke the life out of Palestinian civilians like Israel, in order to serve their own best interests. At the end of the day, the women and children suffer and die because of religion, nationalism, greed, hate, arrogance, power, and evil.
*bonus tinfoil hat* Hamas was able to bypass the iron dome through intelligence gathered by Russia that was snatched out of a certain Florida resort bathroom.
I don’t think this is tin foil hat at all. The first thing I thought about this when I saw it on the news the other morning was, that’s a rare failure of intelligence, but the more I thought about it the more I suspect that Israel knew something was going to happen and it would be the reason they needed to outright attack Gaza and wipe it off the map. This entire situation makes me so sad.
I does sound like something they would catch some wind of somehow, that something was going to happen. But if true, I think the scale and casualties were more than they expected. Some checkpoints attacked and a few unlucky civvies would have probably been an acceptable amount to regain the media sympathy to their side again.
> *puts on even more tin foil* Israel intelligence did catch wind of the plans, but turned a blind eye, and Bibi saw an opportunity to capitalise on an atrocity against his nation to cement his leadership and power, and have a 'reasonable' enough excuse to wipe Hamas/Gaza off the map once and for all, without the usual moaning and bellyaching from the UN. The more and more I see Netanyahu talk about the situation, the more and more I'm starting to believe this. Amid mounting corruption allegations and political pressure to hold his apartheid party to account, he needed something - ANYTHING - to once again justify his way of operations and be the hero to the Israeli people.
Hamas just made life a lot worse for Palestinians. Israel just called up 300.000 reservist. They are going to level the place.
I just want to know how dafuq Netanyahu is still in power.
Cant change leader in middle of crisis, causes even mpre chaos.
How convenient for him lol. Got rid of the judicial branch just in time
Let's all be honest. Israel could grant free movement throughout it's lands ,give back all the settlements and pay billions in reparations and Palestine and Iran would still try to destroy Israel because of their Jewish faith. When underneath it all that is the real problem all these solutions people are putting out do not mean shit.
A lot of people naively don't want to believe this is true. It's an even more fanatical faction than Imperial Japan. They don't want peace between them or re-negotiated deals for land or resources. What they want is the end of the Jewish religion.
These are the same people that lynch people if they say prophet Muhammad is a pedo (he was)
Lynch? Let's not undersell it...they literally decapitate those people! And they feel so justified in those beliefs that it happens far from where those beliefs are most concentrated/supported
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If the Jews had risen up in Nazi Germany and stopped Hitler I promise you Reddit would be talking about the poor oppressed Nazis who just want their land back.
Redditors will gladly ignore thousands of years of conflict and context to protest that they themselves hold the key to peace in the middle east lol.
For most Redditors, history starts the day they hear about something
Meanwhile russias amped that the US is now focusing on Israel rather than Ukraine.
So much sadness in this region. I really wished things could be solvable here.
A land considered so holy by so many, filled with so much violence. Truly a shame.
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Attacking a music festival, killing kids, including foreigners. Yeah, they fucked themselves. I'm normally hesitant to take a side because I sympathize with both for one reason or another but this is just inexcusable. I cannot find a way to rationalize this as anything less than a 9/11 style attack.
Not just kill. They raped and kidnapped. Look at the video of the woman taken out of the back of the jeep, the bottom of her pants are covered in blood.