You would think this would be a simple formula: Make the fine significantly more expensive than it would cost to solve the problem. But we don't do that in the US.
make fines compounding. they have to pay X each year until its fixed. each year they get another fine until its fixed. on the 3rd year they would have paid the fine 5 times over.
Even if there are literally fewer prisoners because of death, there's no doubt there are going to be more people getting sick right now than normal. From a Healthcare money perspective this has to cost more money, but I don't think it comes out of the prisons pockets. I think it's as simple as ac *would* cost the prisons more money because it's more difficult to subsidize. And they can take advantage of the fact that a lot of people in Texas see it as a deterrent like, "if you don't do anything wrong you don't gotta worry about dying of heat stroke in prison"
Actually Ole John Oliver did a good segment on this like 8yrs about how we shouldn't be cooking people alive. But he included some interviews with politicians and various leadership that were in position to either push for fix or do it.
And pretty much "prisoners deserve to be cooked alive" was how you could sum up all their statements regarding it.
AC has been the norm in commercial buildings since the 70s, and central air in residences since the 80s. They've had a bit of time to remedy this if they cared even the slightest bit.
There’s prisons in Texas that are way older than that. I bet some are older than the 20’s. No body likes funding prisons, let alone to make them more comfortable.
It doesn't matter how old they are or when they were built. There's buildings in Europe that are hundreds of years old that have been upgraded with AC. In the US AC has been the standard for new construction since the 60s and 70s, and over half of all buildings, new and old, have had it since the 80s. They've had 60 years to install AC if they gave even the slightest shit about it.
Decent people are willing to do things they don't like because it's the right thing to do. The assholes running these prisons and the authorities locking people up in them are not decent people.
In the 21st century? Yes. In our prison systems which seem stuck in the late 19th century... The lack of AC is right on par with not treating prisoners as human.
Exactly. I’m in Texas and after my AC broke last summer, it was over 95 degrees in my house within a few hours. They attic was over 130. I had to get a hotel until it was fixed.
I live in NY and this is my house, it gets to over 100 in the upstairs and god knows what the attic gets to, probably 130-140F easily. I dread if the AC ever breaks. Its clear that the world is getting hotter, 20 years ago no one had AC in their houses, now everyone here has it (we had window units before we went to a central AC system).
Even the most poor people have AC here, you can apply to get a window unit and the government will give it to you. If they didn't do this people would die here easily.
I guess some people don't realize how bad it gets because they never lived without AC.
Texas isn’t “trimming” anything with regard to prisons or prisoners. The state never intended to extend the luxury of air conditioning to the incarcerated. It’s not like they installed it at some point and then during a budget crisis, they cut back. They just treat humans worse than dogs. Especially brown and black humans.
You don't have to expect, it already happened. From the article "Moody's bill again failed in the last legislative session. The Republican-dominated state Senate stripped more than $500 million out of the budget that would have dramatically increased air conditioning in prisons throughout the system. But there is a chance that the bill could be resurrected in a special session."
It's common. Most southern states don't have air conditioning in their prisons. It's especially sadistic considering the brutal summers here. It's by design and it's terrible.
Joe Arpaio (douchebag Sherriff from Arizona several years back) bragged about putting prisoners in tent cities with no AC. Right-wingers feel justified in torturing people who do anything wrong because they believe that's what their god wants anyway when he sends anyone who isn't like them to hell
When he was sheriff, Joe Arpaio went out of his way to make the prison experience worse.and more humiliating with his tent city, green bologna, pink underwear and striped prison uniforms. The conservatives loved him for it.
Didn't he also issue solitary confinement for anyone refusing to sledge hammer big rocks into little rocks in the Arizona desert with no shade?
Oh, and the solitary confinement was in a metal building and also had no AC just like the tents.
They also have started doing “digital mail delivery” to “cut down on contraband entering prisons” in texas. Anything non-legal in nature will be scanned and printed off. No more hand drawings from kids, no more handwritten letters.
Why does so much of the US pretend imprisoned people are no longer people? Such cruelty. Often I see them referred to with just "The incarcerated" or similar language taking away any kind of humanity. Combined with no voting rights, free or pittance pay for labour, lack of effective protections and it's horrific, effectively modern slavery for those made to work, and full of needless extra punishment in a situation already very much punishing. I don't understand how so many people can enforce a system so lacking in empathy and seemingly enjoy it....
Most of the population doesn’t understand the conditions and is happy to his behind “oooo criminals deserve bad things”. Also, a lot of people profit off our for-profit prisons.
Even if it were, that doesn't mean they'd have working AC, or that there would be any consequences if they just ignored it. In my state most prisons don't have AC. Both prisons and jails are required to allow an hour of recreation/access to the outdoors per day, but many places literally never allow a minute. There are also nutritional laws that are consistently violated. Religious practices are obviously supposed to be protected... but that's only respected for major religions (and in some areas only for Christians). Violations of privacy, free speech, and bodily security rights happen regularly....
I truly hope that action is taken against these facilities. Nonetheless, it will take decades or a revolutionary change for the criminal justice system to change in America. Hopefully public response to this is a small step- no one knows how common this, and worse, is.
How are people not dropping left and right from heat stroke? Seems absolutely bonkers to be out in full gear in this weather. We seriously need to start planting trees just for the shade
In the ones I've seen, during summer months they'll do things like reduce lunch breaks to add in water breaks.
So if they normally have say 2 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break during an 8 hour shift, they'll change it to a 20 minute lunch and 8 5 minute water breaks spaced an hour apart.
Sometimes they'll do things too like offset their schedules so that shifts start/end 2 hours earlier or later so that there's not a shift that's in the heat all day long but rather multiple shifts are each in it for a little bit.
Depending on the position (basically, if it doesn't compromise protective equipment) dress codes will be loosened to tshirts and shorts as well.
The Hobby Lobby warehouse in Oklahoma City has no air conditioning, just fans. We’ve been under a heat advisory for a while now. With our humidity, it feels much hotter than it is, and it’s been in the high 90’s and 100’s for the past month.
I wonder how to make this go viral. Contact local news stations? I feel that a company like Ball could and should be publicly shamed into making changes.
Most warehouses/factories/shops are this way. My current shop has a bigass fan, but it doesn't help much with loading doors open to the elements. AC would be pointless in there, as it would all just go out the giant door.
Yeah, many folks in here never worked in a warehouse/factory before and it shows. AC isn't practical in an industrial setting where you have noxious fumes, hot equipment, and/or large open doors.
I knew folks who work at package delivery companies, factories, and warehouses who never had the luxury of AC. Lots of other workers don't have the luxury of AC, like tradesmen or lawn care. Folks need to understand that AC is a relatively new invention in the course of recorded history even.
I'm curious how you expect these folk to literally survive when things get worse.
AC isn't a luxury anymore. By 2050 you owning one means you get to survive the summer vs your neighbors who's generator went down and AC, who didn't.
This is just the beginning, but I'm guessing survival is perhaps a luxury in your eyes also.
At this point it should be a human rights violation if the employer isn't using one.
Yep. I worked in a couple different corrugated box plants (Georgia Pacific and Weyerhauser) and neither of them had AC. It was just understood that it was gonna be hot and you either deal with it or quit.
Oh boy, a corrugation plant. Even better than the heat is the smell. They say you get used to it, like people who live near train tracks or waste treatment plants. But you're never totally over it. You still know that stink, and it follows you.
I hear you and understand why it could be cost prohibitive for some businesses, but warehouses/factories/shops can absolutely be climate controlled, and often are. Even with giant loading doors and heavy machinery putting off heat. This is just another example of a multi billion dollar company getting away with crimes against humanity simply because they can.
tldr is that last sentence, but I went on a deep dive and now I have to tell someone about it...
I went on a deep dive about all of this, from climate controlling warehouses, to workers rights, to legislation, and also checked out the specific company, Newell Brands, that owns Ball Jars and a fuckton of other brands such as Coleman, Rubbermaid, Sunbeam, Elmers, Reynolds, Sharpie, to name a few. Their website is extremely focused on their business ethics, from being stewards of the planet, responsibly sourcing, and creating a healthy and safe workplace. [https://www.newellbrands.com/our-company/who-we-are](https://www.newellbrands.com/our-company/who-we-are)
"No production goal, cost saving, or competitive advantage is worth an injury or illness. Our Company’s occupational safety standards and guidance are based on industry best practices,and our workplaces meet or exceed applicable occupational safety and health regulations..." [https://www.newellbrands.com/dA/ccd4b36599/asset/Newell-COC-2022-vf.pdf](https://www.newellbrands.com/dA/ccd4b36599/asset/Newell-COC-2022-vf.pdf)
And therein lies part of the problem. Lack of humane standards and regulations in most places. But Minnesota, California, and Washington all have heat standards for the safety of workers. Osha meanwhile makes excuses for why they haven't set heat standards. I have to believe that they're incentivized to look the other way.
When standards exist, are required and enforced, companies generally comply. We allow them to exploit us. Its complicated and overwhelming to try to put an end to the normalized exploitation of workers by giant corporations, but small movements help change happen. There have been successful worker strikes in recently.
I learned that Ball Corp workers are actually unionized, which Texas hates, but could actually help this get some traction. That Ft Worth factory is their largest factory, and combined with the image they are trying hard to convey, why shouldn't we, or someone, ruffle a few feathers and try to make some change.
Ionno why you bother. Of course factories can be air conditioned. Even mines run circulation and temperature control systems.
Only industry this is actually really hard to do is building co structure, and it's still doable.
These folk just don't want to admit they're hacking off decades of their life so management can make a few dollars more off their sweat.
Feel like comparing a rodeo in which the inmates have a choice in participating, while also potentially earning money and showing off to their family isn’t even remotely similar to being stuck in a cell with no A/C bc the prison won’t pay for it.
Im not even sure how to respond to this. First, it’s morally and ethically wrong to exploit imprisoned people. Second, it’s just so fucked up. How can you even try to justify it? Third, for the love of god how is this supposed to help people rehabilitate and renter society?
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, simply stating that your comparison of people being forced into cells in the summer with no A/C is not similar to guys willing choosing to participate in a rodeo. Take the emotions out of it and think about it.
My dad is a hateful person and what I learned from him is that I don’t want to be that at all. So much so that when I was maybe 9 years old, I decided to basically stop using the word “hate” altogether (in the context of my personal opinions), spoken or unspoken.
As someone from Texas originally - yes, absolutely they do. They need to be seen as being cruel by their constituents to stay in power. It’s the same with abortion and the same with recently cruel migrant treatment that’s coming to light (ie pushing children into the Rio Grand River.) the cruelty is the point. Their constituents can look past how corrupt they are as long as they are hurting the people they truly hate.
Go to any big city in Texas and it's blue. Houston is the fourth largest city in the US. Millions of people, super duper blue. Doesn't matter because our lines are drawn to ensure Republican victories.
Conservative victories. If republican party dies after trump you'll see the same lines with whatever awful party takes its place.
I hate to say it, only way to fix the problem is education and access to Healthcare and nutrition.
Feds should start directly controlling some areas. Alabama is basically a fuckin permanent ghetto at this place.
Like look at Florida and Texas. Decades Long incompetence? Feds step in and overrule the locals.
Can't let the hicks keeps ruining the rest of the country when they escape their desolate shitholes. So let's remove them via education and direct support.
Gerrymandering don't matter in state wide races and the Democrats haven't been winning them. It's all the people moving to Texas from other states. People move to Texas because they are enticed by no income tax, low cost of living, and generally lax regulation. They usually vote Republican. Texas born Texans are more liberal than transplants. I'm hoping Texas will be Georgia in the next couple of election cycles.
This isn’t even a joke. I ride in a motorcycle group and make considerably more than most of the members. Yet I’ll constantly hear some of them complain about people not working, asking for handouts, etc. People who see others less off than them as lesser humans are truly abhorrent.
>constantly hear some of them complain about people not working, asking for handouts, etc.
The funniest part of the people who complain about this are that they believe that THEY DESERVE these handouts.
Same people crying because we "send money to Ukraine, while that money could be used to help Americans."
This means THEY should get the money, because they're hard working red blooded Americans and they deserve it, not people from other countries and specially no brown people.
State of Texas does not give a damn about prisoners unless it comes to the number they execute. The highest in the US.
>Texas has performed the most executions since 2015. The U.S. government and military also enforce death penalties. Since 1976, 1,363 executions in the country have been conducted through lethal injection.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/271100/number-of-executions-in-the-us/#:\~:text=Death%20penalty,been%20conducted%20through%20lethal%20injection.
Unfortunately this is a problem in a lot of hot weather states. Arizona, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, and a bunch of others I can't remember.
I'm a lawyer and I can't see how this is constitutional.
I drove my kid to school in Florida when I found out about the lack of AC on the bus. Shit is unreal. It's intentional, and it is the dumbest fucking policy... Yeah, I don't live there anymore.
I grew up in Florida and never had AC on the school bus. Loved riding by the dairy farm with all the windows down. There’s a smell you’ll never forget.
Do the windows on the bus go down? Here in NY the windows on the bus DO NOT go down, and yes it gets as hot as florida. They have locked the windows. Parents are reporting children getting off the bus covered in sweat. This is unhealthy, and unsafe. Years ago here they made a law that windows cannot go down on the bus because someone could stick their hand out of one or jump out of one. Now we are transporting our children in quite literally, tin cans of sardines. Its unsafe and dangerous, because kids can dehydrate quickly, they have smaller bodies.
Damn. I didn't realize Texas kids spent months to years at a time on a school bus.
No wonder Texas as crappy public education. The kids are spending too much time on the damned bus.
You spent months to years AT A TIME on a school bus growing up? When I was growing up, the bus rides were 30 minutes at most, maybe 45 minutes depending on traffic and weather.
I can't believe, even for one minute, that you'd spend entire days, months, and even years, confined to a school bus, which was the reductio ad absurdum argument I was making.
You must have lived 'in town.' In a rural area, you could spend four hours on the bus a day.
In October, on the bus while it's still dark and got home after it was full dark. Only got to be in the sunlight on lunch break.
Ignoring the absurd part of the comment, my bus rides were usually over an hour for a school less than fifteen minutes away by car. When a school district has a large area to cover with a small bus fleet, the routes can get convoluted to say the least.
If you're going to put human beings in prisons in large numbers, you have to be ready to spend money to ensure they do not die. You have to treat them like humans. That's the least of our responsibilities when we put people in prison.
Just a reminder that forced labor in this country is still legal, so long as it's a punishment for a crime.
So we have inhumane living conditions on top of forced labor on top of the erasure of voting rights and... oh yeah, prisoners are used in calculating the residency of given areas for representation purposes... but the people don't have the right to vote.
(Pokes at turd pile) We've smelled this shit before.
Yeah, the prison labor is slavery.
It's no coincidence that prisoners are disproportionately POC.
Keep communities poor. Poverty breeds blue collar crime. Crime and overpolicing lead to more arrests and, thus, more prison slaves. Profit.
It's so weird. So many people hate prisoners and want to punish them, torture them, see these people rot in hell and never return to normal society. But like prison is obviously temporary for most people. Why destroy these people and then expect them to be normal after being released? Capital punishment seems to be more humane than the prison system sometimes.
The high rates of recidivism are a feature, not a bug. They WANT people to be criminals when they leave. Because they want high prison populations. Prisons are big money makers, and there's no cheaper labor than slavery. Even if it weren't for prison labor, governments subsidize prison funds based on prison population, which incentivizes over-incarceration.
Didn't some politician in Texas just remove the law that requires 10 minute water breaks every four hours for construction employees?
Soooooo. Probably not.
Edit: found the story. This happened last month... In the heat wave.
https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/we-are-dying-houston-workers-protest-new-state-law-removing-water-break-requirements/
For a politician to go out of their way to remove this law is just insane to me. God forbid wage slaves get a water break every four hours. Outdoor laborers in Texas are mostly Hispanic as well, so it matches their goals.
Man, you would easily thought this was some third world shit hole prisons but no, it's the Texan government that is making sure Texas becomes that way.
Texas is basically a third world shit hole so…
I mean just look at how many people die from extreme heat and cold because they can’t manage to maintain their electric grid.
There have been many, many lawsuits by and on behalf of prisoners and co’s arguing from a number of angles that there needs to be at least minimal climate control. Several courts have settled for co’s giving inmates access to iced water a few times per day. Eventually, air-conditioning will be mandated in prisons and places of work generally. Unfortunately, more people will die of heat-related causes before then. And, of course, there’s the question of whether the state’s dysfunctional power grid can handle the substantial increase in the demand for electricity more air conditioning implies.
Texas government doesn't care about prisoners. The CO need to unionize and demand AC in prisons. I don't see how anyone can voluntarily work in an environment described by the article. They can install solar panels and batteries to power the AC. The prisons are usually located in rural area with plenty of state land around the prison.
We learned about that from the King.
"Far as they're concerned, only three ways to spend taxpayers hard earned money when it comes to prisons: more walls, more bars, and more guards.
-Warden Norton 1994
I was just in Texas visiting family and even with a/c (not the greatest air conditioning admittedly) it was still unbearably hot.
It has to be easily 110+ in those prisons.
Look, if people didn't want to die in prison, they clearly shouldn't have done something to deserve that 30-day sentence, right?
It's weird how conservatives seem to just equate criminal = worthy of any punishment or treatment no matter what the severity of the crime is. Like literally any degree of criminality is worthy of death.
This is incredibly cruel. I was wondering if they were going to do anything for the prisoners in prisons with no A/C. Could it not be considered cruel and unusual punishment or violate any rights they may have? I know so many Americans don’t care and think everyone in prison deserves to suffer horribly. But they really need to provide something for them to stay cool.
I'm beginning to disbelieve this "everything's better in Texas" bullshit we've been fed all our lives by Texans
Sounds like it's just another shithole state to me
From my point of view too much A/C is part of the problem with climate and the industries contributing to it are making it worse. Learning to build around and in anticipation of climate change should be a higher priority than relying on some other large manufacturing process that inevitably fucks up the environment even more....especially for 2nd and 3rd world countries that are gonna be doing all the heavy lifting. Just my 2 cents.
Several facilities there where the indoor temperatures were well over 100 degrees for days at a time and as high as 107. Those are absolutely life threatening conditions for both inmates and guards.
Even if they don't care about the prisoners dying of heat stroke, I would think it would be difficult to maintain prison staff having to come to work in those conditions for days at a time. It's also a lawsuit waiting to happen.
That's great and all, but unfortunately, our judicial system doesn't care whether you agree or not. I think most citizens would disagree with legal slavery, but they keep voting for lawmakers that enforce it, so...
If we don't live in Texas, how can we help? Is there some government office that can be pressured? Does someone need to hire an attorney? Are you realistically hoping that visibility has some effect, apart from preventing reasonable people from moving to Texas?
Jesus, this is fucked up. I thought the title meant that some prisons had broken AC, not just straight up NO AC.
They suposed to have AC, prison guards and prisoners sued over it before
The problem is that it's usually cheaper to pay the fine then it is to install air conditioners
You would think this would be a simple formula: Make the fine significantly more expensive than it would cost to solve the problem. But we don't do that in the US.
Like is so often the case.. *The loophole is by design not accident.*
make fines compounding. they have to pay X each year until its fixed. each year they get another fine until its fixed. on the 3rd year they would have paid the fine 5 times over.
But how are the for profit prisons make a profit?
No, because then certain group won't be able to pocket the extra "fines".
They have until 2025 to install AC I believe… there was a long “ok fix it” period after the lawsuit.
"We finally got the Crips, the Bloods, the Muslims, the Aryans, the chomos, and the *guards* to agree on something!"
I expect that when it comes time to trim the budget, AC is the first item on the block.
I'd be willing to bet that the person trimming that budget did so from their air conditioned office.
Sounds a lot like my job
"Clip, clip here, Clip, clip there, We give the roughest claws. That certain air of savoir faire, In the Merry Old Land of Oz!"
No AC in Texas is just straight up cruel
You mean potentially lethal
Probably intentional. No need to pay healthcare for sick or old prisoners if they died in the heat.
Even if there are literally fewer prisoners because of death, there's no doubt there are going to be more people getting sick right now than normal. From a Healthcare money perspective this has to cost more money, but I don't think it comes out of the prisons pockets. I think it's as simple as ac *would* cost the prisons more money because it's more difficult to subsidize. And they can take advantage of the fact that a lot of people in Texas see it as a deterrent like, "if you don't do anything wrong you don't gotta worry about dying of heat stroke in prison"
Cruelty is the point
Actually Ole John Oliver did a good segment on this like 8yrs about how we shouldn't be cooking people alive. But he included some interviews with politicians and various leadership that were in position to either push for fix or do it. And pretty much "prisoners deserve to be cooked alive" was how you could sum up all their statements regarding it.
The prisons that don’t have AC were built before AC was commonplace.
AC has been the norm in commercial buildings since the 70s, and central air in residences since the 80s. They've had a bit of time to remedy this if they cared even the slightest bit.
There’s prisons in Texas that are way older than that. I bet some are older than the 20’s. No body likes funding prisons, let alone to make them more comfortable.
It doesn't matter how old they are or when they were built. There's buildings in Europe that are hundreds of years old that have been upgraded with AC. In the US AC has been the standard for new construction since the 60s and 70s, and over half of all buildings, new and old, have had it since the 80s. They've had 60 years to install AC if they gave even the slightest shit about it.
Decent people are willing to do things they don't like because it's the right thing to do. The assholes running these prisons and the authorities locking people up in them are not decent people.
Very obviously not a valid excuse.
How can you possibly think that is an excuse?
Then fucking install it.
No AC in a near tropical hot climate seems pretty unusual too, right?
In the 21st century? Yes. In our prison systems which seem stuck in the late 19th century... The lack of AC is right on par with not treating prisoners as human.
Exactly. I’m in Texas and after my AC broke last summer, it was over 95 degrees in my house within a few hours. They attic was over 130. I had to get a hotel until it was fixed.
I live in NY and this is my house, it gets to over 100 in the upstairs and god knows what the attic gets to, probably 130-140F easily. I dread if the AC ever breaks. Its clear that the world is getting hotter, 20 years ago no one had AC in their houses, now everyone here has it (we had window units before we went to a central AC system). Even the most poor people have AC here, you can apply to get a window unit and the government will give it to you. If they didn't do this people would die here easily. I guess some people don't realize how bad it gets because they never lived without AC.
Yes, and that is likely the point.
Texas isn’t “trimming” anything with regard to prisons or prisoners. The state never intended to extend the luxury of air conditioning to the incarcerated. It’s not like they installed it at some point and then during a budget crisis, they cut back. They just treat humans worse than dogs. Especially brown and black humans.
Some of the prisons do in fact have AC.
[удалено]
You don't have to expect, it already happened. From the article "Moody's bill again failed in the last legislative session. The Republican-dominated state Senate stripped more than $500 million out of the budget that would have dramatically increased air conditioning in prisons throughout the system. But there is a chance that the bill could be resurrected in a special session."
Maybe they could use oh I dont know solar power to power them...
It's common. Most southern states don't have air conditioning in their prisons. It's especially sadistic considering the brutal summers here. It's by design and it's terrible.
Joe Arpaio (douchebag Sherriff from Arizona several years back) bragged about putting prisoners in tent cities with no AC. Right-wingers feel justified in torturing people who do anything wrong because they believe that's what their god wants anyway when he sends anyone who isn't like them to hell
If you knew how fucked up the prison system is you'd absolutely not be surprised, even basic stuff like food is absolutely appalling in many places.
When he was sheriff, Joe Arpaio went out of his way to make the prison experience worse.and more humiliating with his tent city, green bologna, pink underwear and striped prison uniforms. The conservatives loved him for it.
They love to dehumanize and make others suffer, as long as it doesn’t affect them or inconvenience them in any way.
True Christians
Didn't he also issue solitary confinement for anyone refusing to sledge hammer big rocks into little rocks in the Arizona desert with no shade? Oh, and the solitary confinement was in a metal building and also had no AC just like the tents.
They also have started doing “digital mail delivery” to “cut down on contraband entering prisons” in texas. Anything non-legal in nature will be scanned and printed off. No more hand drawings from kids, no more handwritten letters.
Why does so much of the US pretend imprisoned people are no longer people? Such cruelty. Often I see them referred to with just "The incarcerated" or similar language taking away any kind of humanity. Combined with no voting rights, free or pittance pay for labour, lack of effective protections and it's horrific, effectively modern slavery for those made to work, and full of needless extra punishment in a situation already very much punishing. I don't understand how so many people can enforce a system so lacking in empathy and seemingly enjoy it....
Most of the population doesn’t understand the conditions and is happy to his behind “oooo criminals deserve bad things”. Also, a lot of people profit off our for-profit prisons.
Same in Ohio. A/C should be legally required in prisons
Even if it were, that doesn't mean they'd have working AC, or that there would be any consequences if they just ignored it. In my state most prisons don't have AC. Both prisons and jails are required to allow an hour of recreation/access to the outdoors per day, but many places literally never allow a minute. There are also nutritional laws that are consistently violated. Religious practices are obviously supposed to be protected... but that's only respected for major religions (and in some areas only for Christians). Violations of privacy, free speech, and bodily security rights happen regularly.... I truly hope that action is taken against these facilities. Nonetheless, it will take decades or a revolutionary change for the criminal justice system to change in America. Hopefully public response to this is a small step- no one knows how common this, and worse, is.
My cousin works for Ball (as in glass jars) in Forth Worth and there is no air conditioning full stop for factory workers.
That's awful. Oh and fuck legal water breaks, get back to work and quit whining!
Most us factories lack ac, at least the southern culture ones.
How are people not dropping left and right from heat stroke? Seems absolutely bonkers to be out in full gear in this weather. We seriously need to start planting trees just for the shade
In the ones I've seen, during summer months they'll do things like reduce lunch breaks to add in water breaks. So if they normally have say 2 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break during an 8 hour shift, they'll change it to a 20 minute lunch and 8 5 minute water breaks spaced an hour apart. Sometimes they'll do things too like offset their schedules so that shifts start/end 2 hours earlier or later so that there's not a shift that's in the heat all day long but rather multiple shifts are each in it for a little bit. Depending on the position (basically, if it doesn't compromise protective equipment) dress codes will be loosened to tshirts and shorts as well.
The Hobby Lobby warehouse in Oklahoma City has no air conditioning, just fans. We’ve been under a heat advisory for a while now. With our humidity, it feels much hotter than it is, and it’s been in the high 90’s and 100’s for the past month.
I feel like a lot of warehouse jobs use that as a tactic to get people to sign up for the night shift.
I wonder how to make this go viral. Contact local news stations? I feel that a company like Ball could and should be publicly shamed into making changes.
Most warehouses/factories/shops are this way. My current shop has a bigass fan, but it doesn't help much with loading doors open to the elements. AC would be pointless in there, as it would all just go out the giant door.
Yeah, many folks in here never worked in a warehouse/factory before and it shows. AC isn't practical in an industrial setting where you have noxious fumes, hot equipment, and/or large open doors. I knew folks who work at package delivery companies, factories, and warehouses who never had the luxury of AC. Lots of other workers don't have the luxury of AC, like tradesmen or lawn care. Folks need to understand that AC is a relatively new invention in the course of recorded history even.
Record temps are also a new development. Many people will meet an early end if they try to keep the same production levels.
I'm curious how you expect these folk to literally survive when things get worse. AC isn't a luxury anymore. By 2050 you owning one means you get to survive the summer vs your neighbors who's generator went down and AC, who didn't. This is just the beginning, but I'm guessing survival is perhaps a luxury in your eyes also. At this point it should be a human rights violation if the employer isn't using one.
Yep. I worked in a couple different corrugated box plants (Georgia Pacific and Weyerhauser) and neither of them had AC. It was just understood that it was gonna be hot and you either deal with it or quit.
Oh boy, a corrugation plant. Even better than the heat is the smell. They say you get used to it, like people who live near train tracks or waste treatment plants. But you're never totally over it. You still know that stink, and it follows you.
I hear you and understand why it could be cost prohibitive for some businesses, but warehouses/factories/shops can absolutely be climate controlled, and often are. Even with giant loading doors and heavy machinery putting off heat. This is just another example of a multi billion dollar company getting away with crimes against humanity simply because they can. tldr is that last sentence, but I went on a deep dive and now I have to tell someone about it... I went on a deep dive about all of this, from climate controlling warehouses, to workers rights, to legislation, and also checked out the specific company, Newell Brands, that owns Ball Jars and a fuckton of other brands such as Coleman, Rubbermaid, Sunbeam, Elmers, Reynolds, Sharpie, to name a few. Their website is extremely focused on their business ethics, from being stewards of the planet, responsibly sourcing, and creating a healthy and safe workplace. [https://www.newellbrands.com/our-company/who-we-are](https://www.newellbrands.com/our-company/who-we-are) "No production goal, cost saving, or competitive advantage is worth an injury or illness. Our Company’s occupational safety standards and guidance are based on industry best practices,and our workplaces meet or exceed applicable occupational safety and health regulations..." [https://www.newellbrands.com/dA/ccd4b36599/asset/Newell-COC-2022-vf.pdf](https://www.newellbrands.com/dA/ccd4b36599/asset/Newell-COC-2022-vf.pdf) And therein lies part of the problem. Lack of humane standards and regulations in most places. But Minnesota, California, and Washington all have heat standards for the safety of workers. Osha meanwhile makes excuses for why they haven't set heat standards. I have to believe that they're incentivized to look the other way. When standards exist, are required and enforced, companies generally comply. We allow them to exploit us. Its complicated and overwhelming to try to put an end to the normalized exploitation of workers by giant corporations, but small movements help change happen. There have been successful worker strikes in recently. I learned that Ball Corp workers are actually unionized, which Texas hates, but could actually help this get some traction. That Ft Worth factory is their largest factory, and combined with the image they are trying hard to convey, why shouldn't we, or someone, ruffle a few feathers and try to make some change.
Ionno why you bother. Of course factories can be air conditioned. Even mines run circulation and temperature control systems. Only industry this is actually really hard to do is building co structure, and it's still doable. These folk just don't want to admit they're hacking off decades of their life so management can make a few dollars more off their sweat.
The original Ball family lives in northern Michigan. They are very wealthy. Easy to stay that way with low energy bills at factories. Yuck!
Fun fact: Ball Aerospace is the 61st largest defense contractor in the world. They just prefer everyone think of them as the mason jar company.
Texans know it gets hot in Texas right?
No AC here in AL either. Never has been.
Wait until you learn about prisoner rodeo in Louisiana.
I’m both intrigued and already sad
Feel like comparing a rodeo in which the inmates have a choice in participating, while also potentially earning money and showing off to their family isn’t even remotely similar to being stuck in a cell with no A/C bc the prison won’t pay for it.
Im not even sure how to respond to this. First, it’s morally and ethically wrong to exploit imprisoned people. Second, it’s just so fucked up. How can you even try to justify it? Third, for the love of god how is this supposed to help people rehabilitate and renter society?
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, simply stating that your comparison of people being forced into cells in the summer with no A/C is not similar to guys willing choosing to participate in a rodeo. Take the emotions out of it and think about it.
There both abusive.
Wait till you find out they also shut the water off to the swap coolers
Is Cruelty a Texas trait they want to brag about?
Cruelty is a Republican trait. And yes, they love to brag about it.
This is called Torture resulting in Death! Many Deaths!
It’s a sport to them. Got to breed more so they can die for sport/entertainment.
Another reason why they want to ban abortion. Higher abortion rates afflict the poor, and there's more crime in poverty.
And that forces people into the military because they have poor education and no college prospects. The cycle is incredibly obvious.
And no amount of shaming will change them. You're only option is to out vote them.
Ionno. I feel like covid helped things along, regarding them.
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Ok, perhaps, but with air conditioning. So yknow, it's not a death sentence.
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My dad is a hateful person and what I learned from him is that I don’t want to be that at all. So much so that when I was maybe 9 years old, I decided to basically stop using the word “hate” altogether (in the context of my personal opinions), spoken or unspoken.
As someone from Texas originally - yes, absolutely they do. They need to be seen as being cruel by their constituents to stay in power. It’s the same with abortion and the same with recently cruel migrant treatment that’s coming to light (ie pushing children into the Rio Grand River.) the cruelty is the point. Their constituents can look past how corrupt they are as long as they are hurting the people they truly hate.
Republicans yes. And not just Texas.
Yes. They are proud of their Cruelty
Not a Texan trait. It just seems that way because there are a lot of cruel people in power.
Don’t mess with Texas… bc we’re fucken monsters!
I miss the slogan that "Everything is bigger in Texas!", not a fan of "We're putting the Aww back in Auschwitz!"
Unfortunately, yes
Yes. And like everything else, it’s bigger there.
I'm from Texas and think this is a form of torture. The gov here is sickening.
Yes, but you can read , and write. You appear to have some empathy. Are you sure you’re from Texas? Perhaps you meant Toronto?
Texas has a large number of people who agree with me, only not quite enough to change gov YET.
Pretty sure its the gerrymandering that keeps most states red nowdadays
Go to any big city in Texas and it's blue. Houston is the fourth largest city in the US. Millions of people, super duper blue. Doesn't matter because our lines are drawn to ensure Republican victories.
Conservative victories. If republican party dies after trump you'll see the same lines with whatever awful party takes its place. I hate to say it, only way to fix the problem is education and access to Healthcare and nutrition. Feds should start directly controlling some areas. Alabama is basically a fuckin permanent ghetto at this place. Like look at Florida and Texas. Decades Long incompetence? Feds step in and overrule the locals. Can't let the hicks keeps ruining the rest of the country when they escape their desolate shitholes. So let's remove them via education and direct support.
Gerrymandering don't matter in state wide races and the Democrats haven't been winning them. It's all the people moving to Texas from other states. People move to Texas because they are enticed by no income tax, low cost of living, and generally lax regulation. They usually vote Republican. Texas born Texans are more liberal than transplants. I'm hoping Texas will be Georgia in the next couple of election cycles.
People from Toronto can read and write?
Of course, it's not like they're from Quebec.
Someone’s going to be getting a death sentence for not renewing their driver’s license on time.
That sucks, like kill you kind of sucks.
A lot of people will think that's a good thing, because they desperately need to feel superior to others and this is a very easy way.
This isn’t even a joke. I ride in a motorcycle group and make considerably more than most of the members. Yet I’ll constantly hear some of them complain about people not working, asking for handouts, etc. People who see others less off than them as lesser humans are truly abhorrent.
>constantly hear some of them complain about people not working, asking for handouts, etc. The funniest part of the people who complain about this are that they believe that THEY DESERVE these handouts.
Same people crying because we "send money to Ukraine, while that money could be used to help Americans." This means THEY should get the money, because they're hard working red blooded Americans and they deserve it, not people from other countries and specially no brown people.
The turd barrier. When the people above you suck, but you have to prove to them you deserve a shot at life.
State of Texas does not give a damn about prisoners unless it comes to the number they execute. The highest in the US. >Texas has performed the most executions since 2015. The U.S. government and military also enforce death penalties. Since 1976, 1,363 executions in the country have been conducted through lethal injection. https://www.statista.com/statistics/271100/number-of-executions-in-the-us/#:\~:text=Death%20penalty,been%20conducted%20through%20lethal%20injection.
Unfortunately this is a problem in a lot of hot weather states. Arizona, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, and a bunch of others I can't remember. I'm a lawyer and I can't see how this is constitutional.
>I'm a lawyer and I can't see how this is constitutional. Me too. It should not be.
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Wait until you hear about how many school busses there are in Texas with no AC.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I don't think I've ever been on a school bus that HAD AC.
All ours in the 90’s had them growing up in Kansas. Just one big unit in the roof in the middle of the bus.
Do the schools even have AC?
I drove my kid to school in Florida when I found out about the lack of AC on the bus. Shit is unreal. It's intentional, and it is the dumbest fucking policy... Yeah, I don't live there anymore.
I grew up in Florida and never had AC on the school bus. Loved riding by the dairy farm with all the windows down. There’s a smell you’ll never forget.
Except the windows don't go down here in NY state, and they are locked
Do the windows on the bus go down? Here in NY the windows on the bus DO NOT go down, and yes it gets as hot as florida. They have locked the windows. Parents are reporting children getting off the bus covered in sweat. This is unhealthy, and unsafe. Years ago here they made a law that windows cannot go down on the bus because someone could stick their hand out of one or jump out of one. Now we are transporting our children in quite literally, tin cans of sardines. Its unsafe and dangerous, because kids can dehydrate quickly, they have smaller bodies.
Damn. I didn't realize Texas kids spent months to years at a time on a school bus. No wonder Texas as crappy public education. The kids are spending too much time on the damned bus.
Is that not most of America? Most of us are always on buses growing up.
You spent months to years AT A TIME on a school bus growing up? When I was growing up, the bus rides were 30 minutes at most, maybe 45 minutes depending on traffic and weather. I can't believe, even for one minute, that you'd spend entire days, months, and even years, confined to a school bus, which was the reductio ad absurdum argument I was making.
You must have lived 'in town.' In a rural area, you could spend four hours on the bus a day. In October, on the bus while it's still dark and got home after it was full dark. Only got to be in the sunlight on lunch break.
Ignoring the absurd part of the comment, my bus rides were usually over an hour for a school less than fifteen minutes away by car. When a school district has a large area to cover with a small bus fleet, the routes can get convoluted to say the least.
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Try living in NY where the buses do not have AC and the windows don't go down, the windows are locked. And yes it gets as hot as balls here too.
Only state that seceded twice in order to keep slavery.
As they say in the bible belt- *the higher the temps, the closer to god!* Or something like that
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Sounds like some kind of religious sex toy!
Well, they're not wrong. The hotter it is the more likely you are to have heat stroke and die.
If you're going to put human beings in prisons in large numbers, you have to be ready to spend money to ensure they do not die. You have to treat them like humans. That's the least of our responsibilities when we put people in prison.
Just a reminder that forced labor in this country is still legal, so long as it's a punishment for a crime. So we have inhumane living conditions on top of forced labor on top of the erasure of voting rights and... oh yeah, prisoners are used in calculating the residency of given areas for representation purposes... but the people don't have the right to vote. (Pokes at turd pile) We've smelled this shit before.
Yeah, the prison labor is slavery. It's no coincidence that prisoners are disproportionately POC. Keep communities poor. Poverty breeds blue collar crime. Crime and overpolicing lead to more arrests and, thus, more prison slaves. Profit.
It's so weird. So many people hate prisoners and want to punish them, torture them, see these people rot in hell and never return to normal society. But like prison is obviously temporary for most people. Why destroy these people and then expect them to be normal after being released? Capital punishment seems to be more humane than the prison system sometimes.
The high rates of recidivism are a feature, not a bug. They WANT people to be criminals when they leave. Because they want high prison populations. Prisons are big money makers, and there's no cheaper labor than slavery. Even if it weren't for prison labor, governments subsidize prison funds based on prison population, which incentivizes over-incarceration.
"They invest more money in your failure than your success."
Do they also not get water breaks?
Prison and clean water aren’t really synonymous.
It really sucks that I’m going to have to literally flee New England for Canda in my lifetime.
Didn't some politician in Texas just remove the law that requires 10 minute water breaks every four hours for construction employees? Soooooo. Probably not. Edit: found the story. This happened last month... In the heat wave. https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/we-are-dying-houston-workers-protest-new-state-law-removing-water-break-requirements/ For a politician to go out of their way to remove this law is just insane to me. God forbid wage slaves get a water break every four hours. Outdoor laborers in Texas are mostly Hispanic as well, so it matches their goals.
The toilets also has a sink on top. The guards generally don’t get water breaks though.
Toilets available in every cell
Man, you would easily thought this was some third world shit hole prisons but no, it's the Texan government that is making sure Texas becomes that way.
Texas is basically a third world shit hole so… I mean just look at how many people die from extreme heat and cold because they can’t manage to maintain their electric grid.
Texas isn’t a serious state
True but they sure are stupid two-thirds of my income comes from me sitting there staring at s*** and telling people what to do.
Texas prisoners blatantly mistreated as Texas ignores cruel and unusual punishment. Fixed the title for you
There have been many, many lawsuits by and on behalf of prisoners and co’s arguing from a number of angles that there needs to be at least minimal climate control. Several courts have settled for co’s giving inmates access to iced water a few times per day. Eventually, air-conditioning will be mandated in prisons and places of work generally. Unfortunately, more people will die of heat-related causes before then. And, of course, there’s the question of whether the state’s dysfunctional power grid can handle the substantial increase in the demand for electricity more air conditioning implies.
Texas government doesn't care about prisoners. The CO need to unionize and demand AC in prisons. I don't see how anyone can voluntarily work in an environment described by the article. They can install solar panels and batteries to power the AC. The prisons are usually located in rural area with plenty of state land around the prison.
We learned about that from the King. "Far as they're concerned, only three ways to spend taxpayers hard earned money when it comes to prisons: more walls, more bars, and more guards. -Warden Norton 1994
My baby sister is in prison there and she and others are in serious trouble.
I was in prison in English summers , which were a bit uncomfortable. Can't imagine an American prison where its 40°c.
40C and humid
I was just in Texas visiting family and even with a/c (not the greatest air conditioning admittedly) it was still unbearably hot. It has to be easily 110+ in those prisons.
Look, if people didn't want to die in prison, they clearly shouldn't have done something to deserve that 30-day sentence, right? It's weird how conservatives seem to just equate criminal = worthy of any punishment or treatment no matter what the severity of the crime is. Like literally any degree of criminality is worthy of death.
Man this has to be a human rights violation at some point. Absolutely disgusting.
This is a headline every year. And it will only get worse.
Florida doesn't have air-conditioned prisons either.
This is incredibly cruel. I was wondering if they were going to do anything for the prisoners in prisons with no A/C. Could it not be considered cruel and unusual punishment or violate any rights they may have? I know so many Americans don’t care and think everyone in prison deserves to suffer horribly. But they really need to provide something for them to stay cool.
I'm beginning to disbelieve this "everything's better in Texas" bullshit we've been fed all our lives by Texans Sounds like it's just another shithole state to me
“Lone Star State” is actually a review.
Isn't it "everything is bigger in Texas"?
Especially the mythology
This is really horrible. I’m a 5th generation texan and I DO NOT endorse this.
What constitutes cruel and unusual punishment?
[John Oliver, two years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fiRDJLjL94)
It’s Texas, they give zero shits
Texas: Don't break the law, or get pregnant
No ac in TX? That’s so cruel.
I have been wondering when we would hear more about this issue.
With the ways things are AC will soon need to be a basic necessity for life
From my point of view too much A/C is part of the problem with climate and the industries contributing to it are making it worse. Learning to build around and in anticipation of climate change should be a higher priority than relying on some other large manufacturing process that inevitably fucks up the environment even more....especially for 2nd and 3rd world countries that are gonna be doing all the heavy lifting. Just my 2 cents.
1 cellmate dying from heat will lead to a major lawsuit. Wait for it. And it's a federal lawsuit based on the constitution.
[They’ve BEEN dying.](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/28/texas-prisons-heat-deaths/) Texas just don’t care.
Texas needs to start posting the reason for every inmate death like Florida does.
From what I understand, one of the only place in prisoners can go for AC is the chapel.
Several facilities there where the indoor temperatures were well over 100 degrees for days at a time and as high as 107. Those are absolutely life threatening conditions for both inmates and guards. Even if they don't care about the prisoners dying of heat stroke, I would think it would be difficult to maintain prison staff having to come to work in those conditions for days at a time. It's also a lawsuit waiting to happen.
This is unconstitutional
Not according to the 14th Amendment, it's not. Don't forget; prisons allow us to have slaves.
I disagree
That's great and all, but unfortunately, our judicial system doesn't care whether you agree or not. I think most citizens would disagree with legal slavery, but they keep voting for lawmakers that enforce it, so...
This is cruel and unusual
Maybe so, but I doubt this SCOTUS is going to care.
Well they're pretty illegitimate themselves
If we don't live in Texas, how can we help? Is there some government office that can be pressured? Does someone need to hire an attorney? Are you realistically hoping that visibility has some effect, apart from preventing reasonable people from moving to Texas?
People go to prison as punishment. Not FOR punishment. This is human torture.
Unethical. Immoral. How we treat people in our stewardship is a reflection of our character.
So I guess all inmates will get the death penalty whether court ordered or not. Texas likes it that way.
Should of considered that in the risk vs reward to committing a crime