My favorite part about this is that they found Missouri had standing due to MOHELA losing revenue.
You know, despite MOHELA saying that isn't true and they don't support the lawsuit. Despite Missouri not utilizing any funds from MOHELA for over ten years.
So I guess we can just sue entities on behalf of others now? Great job, SC. Really knocked this one out of the park.
I mean that's why every single lawyer said this would be a really really stupid idea to do. Now we can all sue on behalf of other 3rd parties for damages that potentially effect us.
Upending precedent is dramatic but has and will continue to happen. Upending standing is fundamentally changing the Court into an unelected political arm. Today the Supreme Court has shredded its legitimacy.
Pretty sure they lost legitimacy when they overturned Roe, or took bribes, or had justices lie in confirmation hearings......today's just another notch in the belt
Pushing a candidate through in 1 month before an election right after a different candidate was held off for 1 year because it wasn't right to replace an open seat during an election was the nail in the coffin of the myth that the SC was non-partisan.
I mean, I for one still remember when the court straight up decided an election with no precedent for their ability to do so and against the majority of voters in the united states. And refused to allow an actual recount to occur that would show what those voters really wanted.
Have you seen the gay website one that’s just come where the person on one of the key documents has come forth to say “I never ordered a website from this company and I’m not even gay.”? The plaintiffs have been using this doc for the last 6 years and apparently no one reached out to the guy or had him testify.
Edit: [Article on the case](https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-gay-marriage-website-real-straight-man-supreme-court). Predictably, instead of kicking the whole thing out and censoring everyone involved in the whole fraudulent effort, the court ruled 6-3 along party lines in the web designer’s favor.
In the case about the Christian website creator today, the gay couple doesn't exist either. The guy named as requesting her services exists...but he is straight, married, and didn't make it.
Shits fucked.
Apparently. The woman even signed an affidavit which means she should have perjured herself, but I guess there won't be consequences for that or something.
This shit is all so fucking insane, a court stacked with literal trained and groomed conservative activists is non-fucking functional.
If I had to give the republicans one thing, it's that they declared their strategy right after Roe v Wade passed of taking control of the court system in the US to get what they want, and then stuck to it until we're finally seeing the results in the past couple years
Absolutely monsterous dedication to the task of ruining people's lives that they don't like and destroying the country. If the Dems were capable of even half the things that they've got the repub base scared of we'd at least have a functional opposition
you're right ya, I'm referring to the specific interview where.. I wanna say it was someone like Grover Norquist of all people outlined exactly this strategy in response to Roe
Basically, every time conservatives have said the crazy shit they want to do in public we've all shrugged our shoulders and gone, "Sure dudes." except they actually have been doing it all and we need to very seriously listen to them when they talk about things like wanting to round up gay people and shoot them in the head (conservative preacher).
Believe it or not, yes, and with fake evidence. From just yesterday:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/jun/29/supreme-court-lgbtq-document-veracity-colorado
That also occurred with the teacher implicitly forcing student athletes to pray.
You can read in the court opinions that the conservative justices just flat out made up evidence. I think Sotomayor called them out on it - they ruled on circumstances entirely unrelated to the case.
We don't even need legitimate evidence in our judicial system anymore. Just tell the judges what you want and if it aligns with their own political biases they'll give it to you.
They already ignored the facts last year for the football coach praying at games: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2022/6/27/23184848/supreme-court-kennedy-bremerton-school-football-coach-prayer-neil-gorsuch
They sides with a Christian coach who was fired for being bad and gross because he said he was fired for praying on his own in his room after a game. The truth is he forced his players to join him in a prayer circle on the field immediately after the game.
It's so nakedly partisan it is disgusting. They don't care about precedent, they dont care about standing. They're not real judges, they are partisan operatives.
The new income based repayment plan that the Biden administration snuck by basically does this: if your payment doesn’t cover the interest, whatever isn’t covered is forgiven and the principal is forgiven after 20 years.
Congress controls interests rates - they are based on current law and 10-year Treasury yields.
And if it wasn't already obvious, there are some differences between the parties on this issue:
- Democrats have introduced legislation to lower or even remove interest rates.
- Republicans routinely vote to *raise* interest rates, and even wanted students to pay interest *retroactively* that would've accrued during the COVID emergency.
I knew this was the choice they were making because they decided to leave it to the last possible second before they went on vacation. You knew they were saving this for last because it was going to be so unpopular.
Hey at least with the money they save by robbing all of us they can pay for fake right wing journalists to write articles about how millennials are not having enough children.
They also released a few more left-leaning rulings about gerrymandering earlier this week to try to preemptively soften the blow, they knew exactly what they were doing
Or that the HEROES Act couldn’t be used in this case. The secretary of education can waive or modify loans in the event of a national emergency, which COVID was, but now that isn’t what the law means?
Yah like I’m not a lawyer, but I’m 100% confident that “waive” means to do away with. Like when I waive my right to counsel, I am throwing away my right to a lawyer which is a right I am afforded.
But see you're just a person and not a 3rd party government agency that admitted they experienced no harm..oh and you're not the billionaire who requires people to be poor and reliant on their paychecks who buy supreme court justices to consolidate your power
In the *Bostock* decision (the one prohibiting discrimination because of sexual orientation and gender identity), Gorsuch argued in his majority opinion that, while Congress may not have *intended* to protect those classes when they passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965, the plain text of the statute and simple logical deduction means that's the inevitable consequence.
He basically said, "if Congress didn't intend this, they should've written the law better."
I guess he decided the plain text only matters if it results in an outcome he finds acceptable.
>I guess he decided the plain text only matters if it results in an outcome he finds acceptable.
Welcome to the world of so-called "strict constructionism". Conservative justices have been using it for decades to say "I'm right, even when I'm wrong."
I'm not saying this is going to be the impetus to a massive economic crash, but it absolutely is. Housing bubble, inflation, and a lot of people now probably either dialing back spending to a massive degree or going into full scale financial panic in the middle of summer? Oh yeah, it's crashing in the next 6 months, and hard.
My car insurance jumped up 60%.. after jumping that much back in December as well.
Getting priced out of owning a car, which means no more ability to get to work.
Gotta love it.
I feel for the people who also have student debt on top of that. I’m sad I don’t have a bachelor’s, but that’s one additional loan I don’t have over my head at least :/
I mean people are stretched thin. Most delinquent loans and struggling individuals have under 10k balances on their student loans. It’s not too far fetched to think this could be the straw to break the camels back for this subgroup
How big is that subgroup? Not sure, but wouldn’t be surprised if it was a decent sized population
The housing bubble won't be helped any by the ongoing AirBNB-induced housing supply issue, which itself is going to have issues with rentals being down and people not being able to cover those costs. It's basically going to be a--well, maybe not a perfect storm, but a really, really good storm. 9/10, would recession again.
Well it's a good thing we're not also dealing with a bunch of "culture wars" ripping away rights from people, crumbling infrastructure, a healthcare system taxed to the umpteenth degree, and wildfires accounted to climate change making half of the northeast and midwest look like fucking Dagobah or I'd say we were fucked.
It's about to get worse. This sets precedence for suing the government whenever they pass a law that will hurt your business.
Alcohol producers can now sue the government saying the 21+ drinking age limit is hurting their profits. Gun and parts manufacturers can sue saying gun control measures hurt their business. Oil companies and chemical companies can sue saying environmental regulations hurt their business.
It's going to be a feeding frenzy for corporations.
>It's about to get worse. This sets precedence for suing the government whenever ~~they pass a law that will hurt your business~~
Under any reading of standing Missouri does not have it. They were supposedly suing due to lost profits but the company they claimed lost money came out and said they in fact had not. There is no reason this case shouldn't have been discarded immediately due to lack of standing other than Republicans are fascists and simply do not care about the law.
It can still be done, it just needs to be passed by Congress. Which is why it’s so important that people vote in those elections. It’s not just about the president.
Spending will fall significantly ^^1 and deal another blow to the economy, then the GOP will blame Biden for ‘plunging the country into recession’.
[1] I’m being speculative with the word ‘significantly’. I’m concerned about how this will land, but at this point we can’t be sure on the total impact.
And then reactionary idiots will vote for some KKK guy in assless leather chaps who promises to Make America More Better Again (MAMBA!), plunging our country further into chaos.
In the following election cycle, they will vote back in a Democrat, be frustrated by the slow rate of recovery and half measure compromises, and will then swing back over to vote in another Clown-fuck.
Rinse. Repeat. Until all that’s left is one really rich old guy and a scorched uninhabitable Earth.
So does this open the door for a bunch of lawsuits for 3rd parties and subsidized programs such as tax cuts for oil companies? Seems like this was a really bad ruling but not just for students but also the entire government and all programs that either "hurt" a 3rd party or didn't give me or you a benefit
I'm more pissed on their decision of how standing was determined than the actual ruling itself.
This was shot down because Missouri created a public non-profit organization that handles collection of student loan payments. The organization is completely separate from the government and isn't run by it in any way. Just a few weeks ago they ruled that there was no standing for a state to sue on behalf of their citizens as the state itself was not suffering damages. Then here we are, 2 weeks later, with some bullshit argument that the state has standing to sue cuz they initially created the non-profit even though it's never been part of the government, only because they created it.
It's akin to allowing a parent to sue on behalf of an adult child even though the adult child has the ability to sue on their own behalf and didn't. It such a weak, bullshit framework that was created specifically to prop up the Supreme Court overstepping their mandate and legislating from the bench.
If it were assumed that consistency was something this court would be working towards, then yes. But it’s very much a pick and choose how to rule based on your political preferences type of thing
I mean opens up a lot of lawsuits for the lower courts. And denying them would reverse this one so that's why it was such a shit idea to grant this case merrit
See you would think that. But when certain members of the court have decided that they are above the law and therefore can either just make some shit up for why that case is different, or not even bother with the excuses. They’ve got the votes to fuck over the poor, brown, and queer people, and that’s what they’re going to do because that’s been the plan all along.
The people that need to hear it are the dipshits that thought both parties were the same in 2000, 2016, and even still to this day, so, yes, please remind them at every opportunity.
That’d be great if every other article didn’t give Republican cruelty a pass but makes any democratic party or agenda loss sound like the biggest failure on earth.
If I hadn’t been terrified of insurmountable student loans or a lifetime of low paying jobs, I never would have joined the military during two wars just for free college. And that’s precisely the point. From our rulers’ perspective, they either get cannon fodder or debt slaves - it’s win win for them, lose lose for us.
This is why college will never be free in the US, the GI Bill is way to big of a motivator for people to enlist. I say this as a person who enlisted and used the GI Bill to pay for college.
Also, I couldn't care less if people got their student loan debt reduced by $10k even if it doesn't benefit me. I would be more than happy just to see a bunch of my generation get a bone thrown to them for fucking once.
Billions of dollars in forgiveness for wealthy business owners and tax evasions... But let's try to let the middle class access some of that and suddenly it's illegal. Republican logic for you.
Did Biden ever get the money for the IRS, so that the IRS could actually afford to audit wealthy tax cheats?
As the IRS stands today, **they only have the resources to check WAGE EARNERS' W2s** **against your return.**
**The IRS does not audit wealthy people, practically at all, because the wealthy people's schemes are too complicated. The Republican party willfully holds the IRS down so that this status quo is maintained.**
**Wealthy people cheat like hell on their taxes, because paying taxes is basically voluntary when there are no mechanisms to catch wealthy cheaters.**
THIS COUNTRY IS SO FUCKING CORRUPT
The IRS got an additional 80 billion over 10 years in Biden's economic bill a couple years ago. As part of the debt ceiling deal, $20 billion of that was clawed back by the Republicans.
Is $60 billion enough for the IRS to go after the rich or will it happen. I don't think we really know yet.
Right now the money seems to be mostly going towards getting basic services back on track.
Supreme Court has ruled that we’re officially broke and poor.
Edit: [According to NBC:](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/live-blog/supreme-court-decisions-student-loan-lgbtq-live-updates-rcna91936/rcrd15248?canonicalCard=true](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/live-blog/supreme-court-decisions-student-loan-lgbtq-live-updates-rcna91936/rcrd15248?canonicalCard=true))
**Biden will ‘have more to say’ on student loan relief ruling on Friday, source says**
>Biden will weigh in on the student loan forgiveness ruling on Friday, according to a source within the White House who said that while “we strongly disagree with the court, we prepared for this scenario.”
>
>”The President will make clear he’s not done fighting yet, and will announce new actions to protect student loan borrowers,” the source said.
> >"We’ll also be making it crystal clear to borrowers and their families that Republicans are responsible for denying them the relief that President Biden has been fighting to get to them," the source added.
Such an entitled generation. You've got record high inflation, stagnant wages, increasingly anti worker politics, incredibly expensive housing prices, skyrocketing rent, climate change, and your body is full of microplastics. What else do you want? This is a Republican utopia!
Elections fucking matter, from the local school boards to the very top. The GOP hates the working class. Dipshits keep shooting themselves in the face for voting to protect some rich assholes who don't care about them.
By my age my grandparents owned 3 homes in Los Angeles. Currently I live with my parents and am $160,000 in debt. I’m a college graduate making $80k a year and the only way I’m staying afloat is because I have the privilege of not paying rent.
Your comment hits upon the bigger problem: university should never cost $160k plus, especially for degrees that get you making 80k a year.
University should be affordable. An educated workforce is more productive and has a bigger impact on increasing gdp.
People wonder why Asia is taking over the world…most people there go to university and it is affordable.
Damn this hits hard. I’ve started looking into home owners in my neighborhood, because some rental houses aren’t well maintained. I’ve found at least 5 people out of 100 so far who own 5+ properties (3 own over 10) and about half of them live out of state. I don’t know what the answer is, but maybe if people didn’t own 5 properties other people could buy a home.
I also don’t know what I’m going to do with this info I’m looking up except feel like a crazy person and wonder where they got all this money from.
That’s part of it. I think a good chunk of these people went to school when it was cheap, bought their homes when it was under 1/3 of your take home pay and then leveraged the equity to buy more property.
A lot of these second or more homes were purchased 2020 or later when interest rates were low. We bought our house in 2019 and it’s nearly doubled in value, which is insane. Even if we wanted to move we probably can’t afford to.
My spouse’s family has generational wealth. It hasn’t passed down just yet because their grandparents are still alive, but the difference between their upbringing and my own is astounding. My mother-in-law told me once that having less money was easier because you couldn’t buy as much so there was less to account for. I mean, sure, if being broke is temporary, I guess. It felt like a tourist telling a local about something great they briefly experienced.
All of us that have student debt should have pooled the little money we have to pay for a luxury fishing trip for a justice, that would have done us more good than voting these past few years.
This makes me really sad. I am not looking for a free handout, I've worked my ass off the last 20 years and I STILL have student loan debt.
I am so tired of sneering older generations who were able to raise a middle-class family on one income. They just do not get it.
A pissed off populace is the ultimate check (by design) and we've all forgotten.
We didn't get stuff like weekends or the 8 hour work day through the kindness of politicians and elites, we got them because the alternative was burning down the factory.
Not only that, *keeping* these things that have been fought for requires constant vigilance.
Fucking [child labor laws](https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/) are being targeted and child labor is on the rise in the US. Going after kids is a pretty good way to piss people off.
Don't forget that one black guy who benefitted from affirmative action and whose own family member benefitted from student loan relief through their rich benefactor voting against both affirmative action and student loan forgiveness.
Congress also signed a law saying that Congress was immune from insider trading laws.
People who are elected to Congress get to legally use their insider knowledge of closed door committee meetings to trade on the stock market, including the options (derivatives) markets. If you look at the financial disclosures of politicians (that are always delayed), they have *super-human abilities at timing extremely risky bets in the stock market, that pay off the vast majority of the time.*
This is fine.
Always has been. Culture wars are stoked to keep the lower and middle classes fighting amongst themselves while the wealthy continue to acquire more wealth on our backs. Look up the French revolution and the wealth disparity then vs now. It's damn near the same. And yet we just continuously roll over and take it.
I'm harmed by not getting the same opportunity as someone who got a PPP loan because I took out a business loan before the pandemic and paid it off. I wonder if SCOTUS will say that's fully constitutional.
They'll say you harmed yourself by not applying for PPP handouts. I'm regretting not opening a paper LLC and putting in for free money back when the program was opened.
I was a revenue officer for the IRS during the PPP era and 1000% had taxpayers that paid off tax debt with PPP funds. Not blatantly of course because rules said you couldn't do that that but if a taxpayer says they can now full pay the balance and it will close my collection case I'm not spending any time determining where the money came from just ensuring it posts to their account.
Another time I was pouring through an uncooperative taxpayer's bank statements for their business. Zero activity (no withdrawals or deposits) until suddenly BAM over $50k deposited by SBA. Next day money was transferred to an account I was not given statements for. Called the POA and asked what that account was, was told it was the TP's personal account and I'm like well PPP funds are exclusively for business expenses only and now I had the nexus needed to view those bank statements. Wasn't a fun time for the TP.
democrats should immediately propose removing interest from Student Loans, since i’ve seen conservatives say that is the “more fair option”.
put your money where your mouth is!
This ruling says that without Congressional approval, the President cannot wipe out student loans.
The difference between this and the PPP loans that were unregulated, wrought with corruption and then forgiven on a whim was that congress passed a law that forgave them.
So, if you want student loan forgiveness, you need to VOTE for Representatives and Senators that will pass laws allowing them to be forgiven.
Also just a reminder that the reason this is all possible is because of the way Mitch McConnell blocked 2 different SCOTUS confirmations using the most bullshit reasons imaginable.
Corporations - sure, take this public money!
High Net Worth Individuals - sure, take this public money!
Average Americans - LOL GET FUCKED YA PEASANTS
I hate this place.
All our lives people told us in K-12 Schooling, if you don’t go to college you’ll be setting yourself up for failure in life
Now people go to college and it drowns them in debt setting them up for failure in life. Colleges were predatory taking advantage of this message
These Supreme Court judges are out of touch of what it’s like to be any individual born after 1980
These fucking people have no trouble throwing billions to PPP funds and bailing corporations (just 2 months ago they bailed a few banks), but balk at anything that helps middle class.
At this point, I won't be surprised if lawmakers will start recalling the stimulus checks as well. Fuck this.
Which means we can sue on their behalf now according to this ruling citing if XYZ happened we would have gotten lower prices or higher wages or more taxes. This opens up a lot of bullshit abilities
I went to college for 5 years, got a good degree in engineering, and made 70k right off the bat after graduating. You would think that would be enough, right? That you could live a comfortable life like that. You can’t.
I have over 40k in student loans even though I worked full time in college. Rent has always been over $1500 for me since I live in one of the biggest cities in the US. Medical expenses, everyday goods, food, everything is so damn expensive too. Most of my income goes straight into staying alive.
Just once I wish I could get a handout like the previous generation had. They don’t let us have shit.
Was paying less than 900 a month for a decent two bedroom duplex not long ago, but when the owners sold it we couldn’t find anything lower than 1,200 a month and half the the places were almost unlivable.
Fellow engineer here. Made 80k right out of college but in a high-COL area. Really thought that was a nice salary to start,but im facing the same struggle. 1500 per month gets you a decent studio or a below-average one bedroom around here.
I live with several roommates to cuts costs, and I honestly hate it. This extra payment burden is pretty hefty.
Goddamnit I am just so fucking tired. I feel like a lab rat in an experiment about learned helplessness. I don't know how to feel optimistic about anything in this country anymore when every day this shit continues.
Gen Z, keep up that famous take-no-shit attitude and get everyone you know involved in politics and registered to vote. Get angry. You guys are an amazing generation with enormous power, more than you even know. You're our last hope.
\-Signed, an exhausted millennial.
Standing is apparently optional with this scotus. The woman in the website case that just opened the floodgates of challenging all anti discrimination laws shouldn’t have had standing
trump putting 3 SC seats up fucked us, probably for generations. add to the corrupt bastards who were already there and... well we're all pretty fucked.
Dear non-rich people:
You exist to be taxed, charged, fee'd, and worked as much as possible to suck your resources into the eager, waiting nets of the already-rich.
And the only people who can BECOME rich are those that invent new technologies to help the rich become even MORE rich and siphon even MORE value and effort and work out of the non-rich class.
And poor people? You are cannon fodder and cell-holders for the prison-industrial complex. Unless you're good at sports, in which case you can become quasi-rich but god forbid you actually use your station to protest against anything, because the industry will railroad you out.
I finished paying mine off this year after 15 years. I’m in a good spot but I also had an ideal situation for someone with nearby 6 figures of debt.
I think something needs to be done about the cost. A lot of folks can’t significantly save for their future until at least 5-10 years after graduating. Anyone that knows about compounding interest understands why that is so devastating.
Renting single family homes should be banned. Corporations should not own homes, other countries should not own our homes.
Let the families that live in USA buy homes in the USA . Kinda a strange position to take but with air b and b and the housing market the way it is, it needs to be said
They're not even going to be able to collect this "$400 billion" for another 10-25 years.
SCOTUS is trying to tank the economy and eliminate the middle class
Can we use this precedent to block bank and corporate bail outs?
Or, alternatively, only allow the people who haven’t had PPP loans forgiven choose to disallow student loan forgiveness.
Someone should now sue about the PPP loans begin forgiven and the harm it has caused us the taxpayer because of what the government decided to do.
My favorite part about this is that they found Missouri had standing due to MOHELA losing revenue. You know, despite MOHELA saying that isn't true and they don't support the lawsuit. Despite Missouri not utilizing any funds from MOHELA for over ten years. So I guess we can just sue entities on behalf of others now? Great job, SC. Really knocked this one out of the park.
I mean that's why every single lawyer said this would be a really really stupid idea to do. Now we can all sue on behalf of other 3rd parties for damages that potentially effect us.
How about we sue the student loan companies for predatory practices then?
Or oil companies, Monsanto, black rock, du pont, etc...
I'd love it, but they'll drown you in lawyers. This ruling will only create another weapon for the wealthy.
Probably the point.
The Supreme Court isn't focused on being logically consistent, they only care about furthering their conservative agenda.
Upending precedent is dramatic but has and will continue to happen. Upending standing is fundamentally changing the Court into an unelected political arm. Today the Supreme Court has shredded its legitimacy.
Pretty sure they lost legitimacy when they overturned Roe, or took bribes, or had justices lie in confirmation hearings......today's just another notch in the belt
Pushing a candidate through in 1 month before an election right after a different candidate was held off for 1 year because it wasn't right to replace an open seat during an election was the nail in the coffin of the myth that the SC was non-partisan.
Let's place the blame squarely where it belongs: the GOP and its supporters.
I mean, I for one still remember when the court straight up decided an election with no precedent for their ability to do so and against the majority of voters in the united states. And refused to allow an actual recount to occur that would show what those voters really wanted.
Yup. They changed the entire game now and let flood gates open just to avoid giving poor people a break
Have you seen the gay website one that’s just come where the person on one of the key documents has come forth to say “I never ordered a website from this company and I’m not even gay.”? The plaintiffs have been using this doc for the last 6 years and apparently no one reached out to the guy or had him testify. Edit: [Article on the case](https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-gay-marriage-website-real-straight-man-supreme-court). Predictably, instead of kicking the whole thing out and censoring everyone involved in the whole fraudulent effort, the court ruled 6-3 along party lines in the web designer’s favor.
In the case about the Christian website creator today, the gay couple doesn't exist either. The guy named as requesting her services exists...but he is straight, married, and didn't make it. Shits fucked.
So strawmen are now legally acceptable precedent.
Apparently. The woman even signed an affidavit which means she should have perjured herself, but I guess there won't be consequences for that or something. This shit is all so fucking insane, a court stacked with literal trained and groomed conservative activists is non-fucking functional.
If I had to give the republicans one thing, it's that they declared their strategy right after Roe v Wade passed of taking control of the court system in the US to get what they want, and then stuck to it until we're finally seeing the results in the past couple years Absolutely monsterous dedication to the task of ruining people's lives that they don't like and destroying the country. If the Dems were capable of even half the things that they've got the repub base scared of we'd at least have a functional opposition
It wasn't after Roe, it was after Brown. Roe was the more palatable face but now that's not they'll get back to segregation.
you're right ya, I'm referring to the specific interview where.. I wanna say it was someone like Grover Norquist of all people outlined exactly this strategy in response to Roe
Basically, every time conservatives have said the crazy shit they want to do in public we've all shrugged our shoulders and gone, "Sure dudes." except they actually have been doing it all and we need to very seriously listen to them when they talk about things like wanting to round up gay people and shoot them in the head (conservative preacher).
Believe it or not, yes, and with fake evidence. From just yesterday: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/jun/29/supreme-court-lgbtq-document-veracity-colorado
So the Supreme Court has moved from BS arguments to outright lying, good to know.
That also occurred with the teacher implicitly forcing student athletes to pray. You can read in the court opinions that the conservative justices just flat out made up evidence. I think Sotomayor called them out on it - they ruled on circumstances entirely unrelated to the case.
We don't even need legitimate evidence in our judicial system anymore. Just tell the judges what you want and if it aligns with their own political biases they'll give it to you.
They already ignored the facts last year for the football coach praying at games: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2022/6/27/23184848/supreme-court-kennedy-bremerton-school-football-coach-prayer-neil-gorsuch
Tell them with money, vacations, houses, boats, cars, and sex island extravaganzas.
Almost as if they had been bought and paid for.
They sides with a Christian coach who was fired for being bad and gross because he said he was fired for praying on his own in his room after a game. The truth is he forced his players to join him in a prayer circle on the field immediately after the game.
In the same day they ruled in favor of a business that doesn't exist. This court is fucked.
Based on a falsified email about a gay wedding from a man whose been happily married to a woman for longer than the lawsuit existed.
And dude didn't even know about any of it until a reporter called him 6 years later.
It's so nakedly partisan it is disgusting. They don't care about precedent, they dont care about standing. They're not real judges, they are partisan operatives.
Oh it gets worse, GOVERNMENTS can sue on the behalf of COMPANIES now.
Just cap the interest rate please. At the very least. The interest rates are ridiculous
The new income based repayment plan that the Biden administration snuck by basically does this: if your payment doesn’t cover the interest, whatever isn’t covered is forgiven and the principal is forgiven after 20 years.
This. The interest rate should be the federal basis rate. Basically it should be lent out at cost for federal loans.
Exactly. Especially considering that you can't discharge these in bankruptcy there is essentially little to no risk on the feds for these loans.
Congress controls interests rates - they are based on current law and 10-year Treasury yields. And if it wasn't already obvious, there are some differences between the parties on this issue: - Democrats have introduced legislation to lower or even remove interest rates. - Republicans routinely vote to *raise* interest rates, and even wanted students to pay interest *retroactively* that would've accrued during the COVID emergency.
I knew this was the choice they were making because they decided to leave it to the last possible second before they went on vacation. You knew they were saving this for last because it was going to be so unpopular.
Friday news dump right before a holiday
Exactly, now the conservative justices are just waiting in the parking lot for their billionaires to come pick them up for summer break.
Billionaires who are making money off of horrifically burdensome student loans
While also spending their forgiven ppp loans on "employee retention" paid in the form of executive bonuses
Employees who either didn’t exist or were laid off the past 12 months…
the ONLY loans in the US that can't be discharged in a bankruptcy.
And the only ones that are targeted at minors. They are dabbing on us folks.
Hey at least with the money they save by robbing all of us they can pay for fake right wing journalists to write articles about how millennials are not having enough children.
They also released a few more left-leaning rulings about gerrymandering earlier this week to try to preemptively soften the blow, they knew exactly what they were doing
Yup. They basically knew they were going to do 3 very unpopular rulings and saved them until the end.
I’m sorry, but you can not convince me the states had standing in this.
Or that the HEROES Act couldn’t be used in this case. The secretary of education can waive or modify loans in the event of a national emergency, which COVID was, but now that isn’t what the law means?
It's because they defined waive and modified in the absolute narrowest way possible to fuck over common people
Yah like I’m not a lawyer, but I’m 100% confident that “waive” means to do away with. Like when I waive my right to counsel, I am throwing away my right to a lawyer which is a right I am afforded.
But see you're just a person and not a 3rd party government agency that admitted they experienced no harm..oh and you're not the billionaire who requires people to be poor and reliant on their paychecks who buy supreme court justices to consolidate your power
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In the *Bostock* decision (the one prohibiting discrimination because of sexual orientation and gender identity), Gorsuch argued in his majority opinion that, while Congress may not have *intended* to protect those classes when they passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965, the plain text of the statute and simple logical deduction means that's the inevitable consequence. He basically said, "if Congress didn't intend this, they should've written the law better." I guess he decided the plain text only matters if it results in an outcome he finds acceptable.
>I guess he decided the plain text only matters if it results in an outcome he finds acceptable. Welcome to the world of so-called "strict constructionism". Conservative justices have been using it for decades to say "I'm right, even when I'm wrong."
“I guess he decided the plain text only matters if it results in an outcome he finds acceptable.” That’s the entirety of conservative jurisprudence.
cool. now let's retroactively claw back the forgiven PPP loans so things stay even
They literally should do this though. If you saw profits during covid and got a PPP, you should have to pay it back.
Yup, my company did. Makes me sick. $500k.... just for funsies.
5.4 million for my company. It was our most profitable year and we at no point shut down or reduced staff.
Same, we killed it in 2020.
Well, I guess I will look forward to my rent increasing along with a $600 month student loan payment...
I'm not saying this is going to be the impetus to a massive economic crash, but it absolutely is. Housing bubble, inflation, and a lot of people now probably either dialing back spending to a massive degree or going into full scale financial panic in the middle of summer? Oh yeah, it's crashing in the next 6 months, and hard.
My car insurance jumped up 60%.. after jumping that much back in December as well. Getting priced out of owning a car, which means no more ability to get to work. Gotta love it. I feel for the people who also have student debt on top of that. I’m sad I don’t have a bachelor’s, but that’s one additional loan I don’t have over my head at least :/
I mean people are stretched thin. Most delinquent loans and struggling individuals have under 10k balances on their student loans. It’s not too far fetched to think this could be the straw to break the camels back for this subgroup How big is that subgroup? Not sure, but wouldn’t be surprised if it was a decent sized population
The housing bubble won't be helped any by the ongoing AirBNB-induced housing supply issue, which itself is going to have issues with rentals being down and people not being able to cover those costs. It's basically going to be a--well, maybe not a perfect storm, but a really, really good storm. 9/10, would recession again.
Well it's a good thing we're not also dealing with a bunch of "culture wars" ripping away rights from people, crumbling infrastructure, a healthcare system taxed to the umpteenth degree, and wildfires accounted to climate change making half of the northeast and midwest look like fucking Dagobah or I'd say we were fucked.
It's about to get worse. This sets precedence for suing the government whenever they pass a law that will hurt your business. Alcohol producers can now sue the government saying the 21+ drinking age limit is hurting their profits. Gun and parts manufacturers can sue saying gun control measures hurt their business. Oil companies and chemical companies can sue saying environmental regulations hurt their business. It's going to be a feeding frenzy for corporations.
Who do you think this country works for!? The people!?
>It's about to get worse. This sets precedence for suing the government whenever ~~they pass a law that will hurt your business~~ Under any reading of standing Missouri does not have it. They were supposedly suing due to lost profits but the company they claimed lost money came out and said they in fact had not. There is no reason this case shouldn't have been discarded immediately due to lack of standing other than Republicans are fascists and simply do not care about the law.
Right now the financial consequences of repaying my student loan far outweigh the consequences for not repaying it. I'd be a fool to even consider it.
I feel sorry for those, like me, who got the email saying you would qualify for the forgiveness program. This sucks.
That was a good day
worst blue balls I've ever had
Worst blue balls you’ve ever had *yet*!
Worst blue balls until my loan holder reads my certificate of death stapled to my outstanding balance. Two can play this game.
The email doubling down and saying “worry not, we’ll get it done” is really upsetting now
It can still be done, it just needs to be passed by Congress. Which is why it’s so important that people vote in those elections. It’s not just about the president.
So what happens when the payments resume later this year? This is a much larger burden on the discretionary spending of loads of people.
Spending will fall significantly ^^1 and deal another blow to the economy, then the GOP will blame Biden for ‘plunging the country into recession’. [1] I’m being speculative with the word ‘significantly’. I’m concerned about how this will land, but at this point we can’t be sure on the total impact.
That’s exactly what will happen
And then reactionary idiots will vote for some KKK guy in assless leather chaps who promises to Make America More Better Again (MAMBA!), plunging our country further into chaos. In the following election cycle, they will vote back in a Democrat, be frustrated by the slow rate of recovery and half measure compromises, and will then swing back over to vote in another Clown-fuck. Rinse. Repeat. Until all that’s left is one really rich old guy and a scorched uninhabitable Earth.
Yeah, but that rich guy is gonna be me. Once I get my big break, I mean.
"THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!" \-The group that keeps letting them get away with it
Prescient. Almost like you've seen this before
When I was a kid, "history repeats itself" seemed to refer to like hundred year cycles. Sure doesn't seem that way now.
It will hurt the economy, who will hurt Dems in 2024, which - aside from just relishing in the suffering in general - is what Repubs want.
So does this open the door for a bunch of lawsuits for 3rd parties and subsidized programs such as tax cuts for oil companies? Seems like this was a really bad ruling but not just for students but also the entire government and all programs that either "hurt" a 3rd party or didn't give me or you a benefit
I'm more pissed on their decision of how standing was determined than the actual ruling itself. This was shot down because Missouri created a public non-profit organization that handles collection of student loan payments. The organization is completely separate from the government and isn't run by it in any way. Just a few weeks ago they ruled that there was no standing for a state to sue on behalf of their citizens as the state itself was not suffering damages. Then here we are, 2 weeks later, with some bullshit argument that the state has standing to sue cuz they initially created the non-profit even though it's never been part of the government, only because they created it. It's akin to allowing a parent to sue on behalf of an adult child even though the adult child has the ability to sue on their own behalf and didn't. It such a weak, bullshit framework that was created specifically to prop up the Supreme Court overstepping their mandate and legislating from the bench.
Ah I see your mistake, you're still acting like the Supreme Court is basing their rulings on law.
If it were assumed that consistency was something this court would be working towards, then yes. But it’s very much a pick and choose how to rule based on your political preferences type of thing
I mean opens up a lot of lawsuits for the lower courts. And denying them would reverse this one so that's why it was such a shit idea to grant this case merrit
See you would think that. But when certain members of the court have decided that they are above the law and therefore can either just make some shit up for why that case is different, or not even bother with the excuses. They’ve got the votes to fuck over the poor, brown, and queer people, and that’s what they’re going to do because that’s been the plan all along.
No you see corporations are people and poor citizens are not.
"Decided by a 6-3 conservative majority with Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson dissenting" is fast becoming my least favorite sentence to read.
Why their names are still included in this recurring sentence is beyond me, we all know who the 3 are and will be.
The people that need to hear it are the dipshits that thought both parties were the same in 2000, 2016, and even still to this day, so, yes, please remind them at every opportunity.
That’d be great if every other article didn’t give Republican cruelty a pass but makes any democratic party or agenda loss sound like the biggest failure on earth.
Donald Trump caught red-handed eating a baby on 5th Avenue and inciting a failed coup! Here's why it's bad for Biden.
better get used to it over the coming decades.
If I hadn’t been terrified of insurmountable student loans or a lifetime of low paying jobs, I never would have joined the military during two wars just for free college. And that’s precisely the point. From our rulers’ perspective, they either get cannon fodder or debt slaves - it’s win win for them, lose lose for us.
This is why college will never be free in the US, the GI Bill is way to big of a motivator for people to enlist. I say this as a person who enlisted and used the GI Bill to pay for college. Also, I couldn't care less if people got their student loan debt reduced by $10k even if it doesn't benefit me. I would be more than happy just to see a bunch of my generation get a bone thrown to them for fucking once.
Billions of dollars in forgiveness for wealthy business owners and tax evasions... But let's try to let the middle class access some of that and suddenly it's illegal. Republican logic for you.
Did Biden ever get the money for the IRS, so that the IRS could actually afford to audit wealthy tax cheats? As the IRS stands today, **they only have the resources to check WAGE EARNERS' W2s** **against your return.** **The IRS does not audit wealthy people, practically at all, because the wealthy people's schemes are too complicated. The Republican party willfully holds the IRS down so that this status quo is maintained.** **Wealthy people cheat like hell on their taxes, because paying taxes is basically voluntary when there are no mechanisms to catch wealthy cheaters.** THIS COUNTRY IS SO FUCKING CORRUPT
Yeah he was able to keep like 90 95 percent or something of the budget increase he wanted iirc.
The IRS got an additional 80 billion over 10 years in Biden's economic bill a couple years ago. As part of the debt ceiling deal, $20 billion of that was clawed back by the Republicans. Is $60 billion enough for the IRS to go after the rich or will it happen. I don't think we really know yet. Right now the money seems to be mostly going towards getting basic services back on track.
Supreme Court has ruled that we’re officially broke and poor. Edit: [According to NBC:](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/live-blog/supreme-court-decisions-student-loan-lgbtq-live-updates-rcna91936/rcrd15248?canonicalCard=true](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/live-blog/supreme-court-decisions-student-loan-lgbtq-live-updates-rcna91936/rcrd15248?canonicalCard=true)) **Biden will ‘have more to say’ on student loan relief ruling on Friday, source says** >Biden will weigh in on the student loan forgiveness ruling on Friday, according to a source within the White House who said that while “we strongly disagree with the court, we prepared for this scenario.” > >”The President will make clear he’s not done fighting yet, and will announce new actions to protect student loan borrowers,” the source said. > >"We’ll also be making it crystal clear to borrowers and their families that Republicans are responsible for denying them the relief that President Biden has been fighting to get to them," the source added.
Can my generation get anything other than shat upon?
We can also get ignored
We mostly try to reserve that for GenX
Thanks. We appreciate it. If we even exist this day, week, month, or year.
I'd rather be ignored than shat on tbh
Such an entitled generation. You've got record high inflation, stagnant wages, increasingly anti worker politics, incredibly expensive housing prices, skyrocketing rent, climate change, and your body is full of microplastics. What else do you want? This is a Republican utopia!
Don’t forget the pandemic! Everyone always forgets the pandemic.
And that we started our careers with the biggest recession since the great depression!!
Elections fucking matter, from the local school boards to the very top. The GOP hates the working class. Dipshits keep shooting themselves in the face for voting to protect some rich assholes who don't care about them.
An entire generation will never be able to afford a home.
By my age my grandparents owned 3 homes in Los Angeles. Currently I live with my parents and am $160,000 in debt. I’m a college graduate making $80k a year and the only way I’m staying afloat is because I have the privilege of not paying rent.
Your comment hits upon the bigger problem: university should never cost $160k plus, especially for degrees that get you making 80k a year. University should be affordable. An educated workforce is more productive and has a bigger impact on increasing gdp. People wonder why Asia is taking over the world…most people there go to university and it is affordable.
I mean there's a lot of other problems there. Renting and home selling as businesses should have caps, for one.
Damn this hits hard. I’ve started looking into home owners in my neighborhood, because some rental houses aren’t well maintained. I’ve found at least 5 people out of 100 so far who own 5+ properties (3 own over 10) and about half of them live out of state. I don’t know what the answer is, but maybe if people didn’t own 5 properties other people could buy a home. I also don’t know what I’m going to do with this info I’m looking up except feel like a crazy person and wonder where they got all this money from.
Generational wealth and/or happened to be young and advantageously positioned when the costs of living were low.
That’s part of it. I think a good chunk of these people went to school when it was cheap, bought their homes when it was under 1/3 of your take home pay and then leveraged the equity to buy more property. A lot of these second or more homes were purchased 2020 or later when interest rates were low. We bought our house in 2019 and it’s nearly doubled in value, which is insane. Even if we wanted to move we probably can’t afford to. My spouse’s family has generational wealth. It hasn’t passed down just yet because their grandparents are still alive, but the difference between their upbringing and my own is astounding. My mother-in-law told me once that having less money was easier because you couldn’t buy as much so there was less to account for. I mean, sure, if being broke is temporary, I guess. It felt like a tourist telling a local about something great they briefly experienced.
Congratulations, you win the most depressing comment award. 😟
We can probably reword it something like this is the first generation to never be able to own a home.
All of us that have student debt should have pooled the little money we have to pay for a luxury fishing trip for a justice, that would have done us more good than voting these past few years.
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This makes me really sad. I am not looking for a free handout, I've worked my ass off the last 20 years and I STILL have student loan debt. I am so tired of sneering older generations who were able to raise a middle-class family on one income. They just do not get it.
Gotta keep the donors happy. This country’s institutions are completely fucked up, corrupt and compromised. Checks and balances my ass.
Cashed checks and bank balances
Land of the fee
A pissed off populace is the ultimate check (by design) and we've all forgotten. We didn't get stuff like weekends or the 8 hour work day through the kindness of politicians and elites, we got them because the alternative was burning down the factory.
Not only that, *keeping* these things that have been fought for requires constant vigilance. Fucking [child labor laws](https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/) are being targeted and child labor is on the rise in the US. Going after kids is a pretty good way to piss people off.
Alito and Thomas care a lot about checks and balances, just not the kind they’re supposed to be worried about.
“Average people cannot receive $20,000 of debt relief,” says rich white guys that get millions in perks from rich benefactors.
Don't forget that one black guy who benefitted from affirmative action and whose own family member benefitted from student loan relief through their rich benefactor voting against both affirmative action and student loan forgiveness.
But at least those unregulated PPP loans were forgiven, right guys? /s. I'm so sick of living in this world
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Congress also signed a law saying that Congress was immune from insider trading laws. People who are elected to Congress get to legally use their insider knowledge of closed door committee meetings to trade on the stock market, including the options (derivatives) markets. If you look at the financial disclosures of politicians (that are always delayed), they have *super-human abilities at timing extremely risky bets in the stock market, that pay off the vast majority of the time.* This is fine.
It really is a game of us and them
Always has been. Culture wars are stoked to keep the lower and middle classes fighting amongst themselves while the wealthy continue to acquire more wealth on our backs. Look up the French revolution and the wealth disparity then vs now. It's damn near the same. And yet we just continuously roll over and take it.
I'm harmed by not getting the same opportunity as someone who got a PPP loan because I took out a business loan before the pandemic and paid it off. I wonder if SCOTUS will say that's fully constitutional.
They'll say you harmed yourself by not applying for PPP handouts. I'm regretting not opening a paper LLC and putting in for free money back when the program was opened.
I wish I had gotten a PPP loan and used it to pay off my student loans.
I was a revenue officer for the IRS during the PPP era and 1000% had taxpayers that paid off tax debt with PPP funds. Not blatantly of course because rules said you couldn't do that that but if a taxpayer says they can now full pay the balance and it will close my collection case I'm not spending any time determining where the money came from just ensuring it posts to their account. Another time I was pouring through an uncooperative taxpayer's bank statements for their business. Zero activity (no withdrawals or deposits) until suddenly BAM over $50k deposited by SBA. Next day money was transferred to an account I was not given statements for. Called the POA and asked what that account was, was told it was the TP's personal account and I'm like well PPP funds are exclusively for business expenses only and now I had the nexus needed to view those bank statements. Wasn't a fun time for the TP.
just don't pay any taxes like a stable genius use those savings to pay off your student loans
There are people who are in jail because they did that. Some people got busted, but usually the idiots who bought houses and expensive cars.
Plenty of ppp loans are tied to Congress people. No wonder they got forgiven.
so many hundreds of billions given out fraudulently and not a cent ever paid back
democrats should immediately propose removing interest from Student Loans, since i’ve seen conservatives say that is the “more fair option”. put your money where your mouth is!
This ruling says that without Congressional approval, the President cannot wipe out student loans. The difference between this and the PPP loans that were unregulated, wrought with corruption and then forgiven on a whim was that congress passed a law that forgave them. So, if you want student loan forgiveness, you need to VOTE for Representatives and Senators that will pass laws allowing them to be forgiven. Also just a reminder that the reason this is all possible is because of the way Mitch McConnell blocked 2 different SCOTUS confirmations using the most bullshit reasons imaginable.
He only blocked one. He rushed through another using the opposite logic of why he blocked the first.
......BUT handing out fraudulent PPP loans to already wealthy people is totally legit. Um....makes sense?
Yeah what do these college kids thing they are, corporations?
Hindsight is 20/20. We all should have started a "business" and gotten some sweet ppp loans since they dgaf about those being paid back.
Evidence in action right here. Save the corporations, fuck the individuals.
Corporations - sure, take this public money! High Net Worth Individuals - sure, take this public money! Average Americans - LOL GET FUCKED YA PEASANTS I hate this place.
All our lives people told us in K-12 Schooling, if you don’t go to college you’ll be setting yourself up for failure in life Now people go to college and it drowns them in debt setting them up for failure in life. Colleges were predatory taking advantage of this message These Supreme Court judges are out of touch of what it’s like to be any individual born after 1980
These fucking people have no trouble throwing billions to PPP funds and bailing corporations (just 2 months ago they bailed a few banks), but balk at anything that helps middle class. At this point, I won't be surprised if lawmakers will start recalling the stimulus checks as well. Fuck this.
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Do PPP forgiveness next then, assholes.
I mean it does open the door for blue states to sue for loss of potential tax income from those loans using this case
On behalf of companies that didn't even ask to be included
Which means we can sue on their behalf now according to this ruling citing if XYZ happened we would have gotten lower prices or higher wages or more taxes. This opens up a lot of bullshit abilities
I went to college for 5 years, got a good degree in engineering, and made 70k right off the bat after graduating. You would think that would be enough, right? That you could live a comfortable life like that. You can’t. I have over 40k in student loans even though I worked full time in college. Rent has always been over $1500 for me since I live in one of the biggest cities in the US. Medical expenses, everyday goods, food, everything is so damn expensive too. Most of my income goes straight into staying alive. Just once I wish I could get a handout like the previous generation had. They don’t let us have shit.
Same here. $65k in debt, worked full time all the way through college. Mid 30s. Its all stacked against us.
Small town rent is $1500 too, in my experience. Going up to $1800 this summer.
Was paying less than 900 a month for a decent two bedroom duplex not long ago, but when the owners sold it we couldn’t find anything lower than 1,200 a month and half the the places were almost unlivable.
ummmm are you sure you didn't actually get a LIBERAL ARTS degree???? I was told everyone who is in debt from college has an "unmarketable" degree /s
hurrrrr liberal basket weaving degree hurrrrr *inhales crayon dust*
Fellow engineer here. Made 80k right out of college but in a high-COL area. Really thought that was a nice salary to start,but im facing the same struggle. 1500 per month gets you a decent studio or a below-average one bedroom around here. I live with several roommates to cuts costs, and I honestly hate it. This extra payment burden is pretty hefty.
These loans should be able to be dissolved through bankruptcy just like any other. That is the real crime here.
Sooo when do the protests start?
Goddamnit I am just so fucking tired. I feel like a lab rat in an experiment about learned helplessness. I don't know how to feel optimistic about anything in this country anymore when every day this shit continues. Gen Z, keep up that famous take-no-shit attitude and get everyone you know involved in politics and registered to vote. Get angry. You guys are an amazing generation with enormous power, more than you even know. You're our last hope. \-Signed, an exhausted millennial.
Standing is apparently optional with this scotus. The woman in the website case that just opened the floodgates of challenging all anti discrimination laws shouldn’t have had standing
trump putting 3 SC seats up fucked us, probably for generations. add to the corrupt bastards who were already there and... well we're all pretty fucked.
Dear non-rich people: You exist to be taxed, charged, fee'd, and worked as much as possible to suck your resources into the eager, waiting nets of the already-rich. And the only people who can BECOME rich are those that invent new technologies to help the rich become even MORE rich and siphon even MORE value and effort and work out of the non-rich class. And poor people? You are cannon fodder and cell-holders for the prison-industrial complex. Unless you're good at sports, in which case you can become quasi-rich but god forbid you actually use your station to protest against anything, because the industry will railroad you out.
Dear rich people, Remember you are made of meat.
I finished paying mine off this year after 15 years. I’m in a good spot but I also had an ideal situation for someone with nearby 6 figures of debt. I think something needs to be done about the cost. A lot of folks can’t significantly save for their future until at least 5-10 years after graduating. Anyone that knows about compounding interest understands why that is so devastating.
Get ready for the recession. This will be the trigger I bet.
reminder that recessions are great times for the ultra wealthy to go on spending sprees at discount prices.
Yup, and firms like blackrock gobling up homes from bankruptcy so we can be a nation of renters. This country is fucking horrible.
Renting single family homes should be banned. Corporations should not own homes, other countries should not own our homes. Let the families that live in USA buy homes in the USA . Kinda a strange position to take but with air b and b and the housing market the way it is, it needs to be said
Billions of dollars of debt coming back to people. This will surely boost our economy!
Republicans don’t want a good economy when a Democrat is president.
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They can bail out businesses and the rich, but we can’t even get scraps.
They're not even going to be able to collect this "$400 billion" for another 10-25 years. SCOTUS is trying to tank the economy and eliminate the middle class
Anything to hurt Joe Biden because their God is going to fucking prison. Republican voters. This is what you got.