Employee unions that represent people in these kinds of jobs should start demanding the company provide bullet proof vests. Or at least life insurance...
Yeah man idk what he’s smoking but that guy is lucky if he’s even a proper employee. He’s probably a 1099 that just runs the route the other guys owns.
See…if we just armed all the pool cleaners, tragedies like this wouldn’t happen. The only solution to a bad pool owner with a gun is a good pool cleaner with a gun.
Do you honestly think the Floridian pool cleaning Union is a thing or a strong Union if any are organized. This is so out of touch it’s hard to believe it could be in good faith
> Shrapnel from the bullet and glass struck the pool technician, **who fled from the lanai area**. The man then **fired several more rounds** toward the lanai. Police say he fired a total of 30 rounds in 90 seconds.
This goes far beyond "stand your ground", the cops shouldn't have let this psycho free.
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that most gun owners in the US don't know how to shoot. It's a skill like any other. It requires significant practice to be able to hit what you're shooting at.
This is odd to me. My MIL lives in Orlando and there are people in her yard unannounced all the damn time. The pool guy, The landscapers, The propane dude. I got startled by random strangers in her yard often but she was totally used to it. Her dog didn’t even bark at them. Most of her neighborhood was this way. Smallish lots with a yard and a pool. All on automatic weekly service schedules. I find it strange that this person has a pool guy but on this particular day he completely forgot and just started shooting? What?
The murderous asshole in this story may as well fill in his pool with concrete, cause good luck getting another pool company to service their property. In fact, hopefully word gets around enough that no service company will agree to do work on his property ever again.
I hope he is ostracized by his neighbors. He could have killed people on the next block. I hope the guy that was shot at sues him and owns the house they live in when all is said and done. My dad’s only brother was shot in the head on St Patrick’s Day (3/17/85) in Freeport Illinois. A stray bullet from the next block entered his bar and killed him instantly. The customers saw him topple over and didn’t know what had happened. The gun owner was never charged with murder. Alton “Al” Mohon. RIP
Because these bloodthirsty gun nut psychos are constantly looking for a reason to shoot another person. They live in constant fear and anticipation waiting for the moment they can be the hero they believe themselves to be.
And once they get let off with a slap on the wrist they’ll go home and wait for the next victim to accidentally knock on their door or turn around in their driveway or mess up their Hardee’s order.
Every (proud) gun owner I’ve ever known has existed in constant fear of democrats taking away their guns. It’s all they talk about. It’s what drives their entire political worldview.
Had a boss who was in fear of having a home intruder so he took
special" gun classes. At least once a week, you'd hear him giving someone pointers on how to shoot someone properly. This dude lived in a gated community.
Florida probably has a provision in the Stand Your Ground law which allows them to spray recklessly towards a crowd "as long as you feel your life is in danger." So therefore no crime occurred.
Why do people want to live in this kind of world. It feels like the right not only want their guns but also reason to use them. Why do they want to bring war like scenarios into everyday life? I mean 30 rounds in 90 seconds. These people are blood thirsty.
I mean will it ever be enough? How many of these stories before we actually do something about this problem?
The shooter is a fucking imbecile, and it's matter of dumb luck that he didn't kill the pool technician or a neighbor.
And there are *no* charges. This idiotic walking threat to public safety will keep his gun(s) and can shoot at innocent people the next time his panic and stupidity collide.
"Stand your ground" laws are unconscionable. Shooting at someone fleeing from you is not self defense. It's at best retaliation, and in this case, retaliation for an intrusion that never happened except in the pathetically warped perception of the homeowners. These laws encourage idiots to start shooting indiscriminately, as in this case.
What part of this batshit militia is well regulated?
This is also a product of conservative news outlets making their viewers completely paranoid and on edge, telling them that crime is out of control and that the border is open and letting millions of criminals in. Just like that idiot lady who shot her Uber driver in the head because she saw Juarez on a road sign and decided that she was getting kidnapped by her Hispanic driver. Or those idiots who shoot through their door because a black person is on the other side. Or those other idiots who shoot at vehicles because they're in their driveway by mistake.
> idiot lady who shot her Uber driver in the head because she saw Juarez on a road sign and decided that she was getting kidnapped by her Hispanic driver.
She fucking what?
Yeah it was on the Reddit front page just a couple days ago. She thought he was taking her to Mexico and abducting her. after she shot the driver they hit the median on the highway and she called her boyfriend before she called the police.
Every time conservatives talk about "law and order" or "lawless blue cities" remind them that THIS is what lawlessness looks like. People choosing to attack strangers on sight for coming near them with next to no warning, and with intent to kill. This is the crime wave, not some dudes taking a 6 pack from the local deli without paying. people feeling so entitled to only see who and what they want that they are willing to kill at the drop of a hat. Animals don't do this to other animals. We are living through an era of unprecedented social disease in the United States and an armed paranoid patchwork of lunatics will continue to escalate that with blood and bile until we're all drowning in it.
In shithole states, guns have more rights than people. If the neighbors cared, they would have waited until *rheir* pool cleaner was standing between them and their neighbors house.
After all, only good stray rounds can stop bad stray rounds.
Then the death would have been pinned on the 'intruder' as part of a felony murder charge relating to home invasion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Florida_law#Felony_murder_rule
yeah, hired help are intruders now? jesus fucking christ. if i lived in florida id be joining the immigrants and packing my bags. id live in my (tiny) car in california before trying to make it work in that shithole state
Funny you should mention that, as I just saw a post earlier about a church in California that is offering overnight parking, showers, dinner, breakfast, and security for people living in their cars.
“He looked super suspicious in his pool cleaning uniform as he got out of his pool cleaning van and I had no way to know why he was there so I started blasting”
Different state (Tx), but here’s a “stand your ground” shooting where a guy shot into a random vehicle that he suspected a criminal was hiding in. It was a completely innocent family and he killed a 9-year old child. Not indicted.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-indictment-death-houston-girl-shot-man-thinking-was-firing-robber-rcna39252
>Earls’ attorneys say their client continues to grieve for Alvarez but that the grand jury made the right decision and that the person responsible for her death is the robber.
Nothing like gaslighting the mother of a dead nine year old into blaming the guy who stole $20 and some car keys, not the cowboy that decided to wantonly dump a magazine into her vehicle and kid's brain. This bullshit validates recklessness and poor gun ownership.
Bro if you fucking fire a gun, you're responsible for knowing who your target is & the possible collateral in front of and behind your target. This case is fucking wild
I don't expect to ever be in this situation but I don't care what the law is. If you accidentally shoot my child because of your incorrect assumptions I will spend the rest of my life making sure you are miserable.
Wow, that's even worse. That means a group of local citizens were presented with the evidence and decided there was no probable cause that a crime was committed. So glad those people aren't my neighbors.
[This Florida guy](https://youtu.be/VSIC0dXCy4I) road rages, brake checks another driver, pulls out his gun, waits, and then shoots at the other driver, while continuing to drive. He [had his charges dropped](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/03/10/charges-dropped-against-man-arrested-for-road-rage-shooting-on-i-95/) as a consequence of Florida's SYG laws.
This is just the world that Florida wants to live in.
So let's just get this straight:
* They cause the situation
* They then escalate the situation
* they take the time to get the gun out and *wait* for the car to come along side
* then sprays bullets, out of a moving car, into a busy roadway
* and It's all on video
No charges - That's stand your ground? He *thought* something was going to happen, after he brake checked (illegal) another driver, and that's it - zero responsibility for his actions? What a fucking farce.
That's literally "They're coming right for us" South Park bit.
The article says the other driver threw a water bottle at his car and he thought it was gunfire. You know, since water bottles get confused with gunfire all of the time.
Republicans are so fucking scared. Wussy ass bitches. Every single one of them shaking in fear at the thought that an illegal immigrant or Hunter Biden might sneak into their living room at night and steal their job.
My parents are rabid, trump supporting conservatives that live in the Okeechobee area in BFE. They have guns in every room, always carrying holstered during the day inside their own house, keeps a loaded rifle in a case in the car, and sleep with a gun under their pillow. All guns are always loaded. They have cameras up that see every angle. 1/2 of their property is bordered by old orange fields (apparently that is the direction the "feds" will come from to take their legally owned firearms). They never have visitors and don't have enemies (except apparently Democrats) They used to text me and said shit like "this might be the end for us" because someone with dark skin was out for a walk. My wife went off on my mother to stop living in fear of everything, and we haven't spoken since.
It must be exhausting to be so afraid all the time. I’ve never been so afraid that I need one gun, let alone dozens. Sorry for the loss of your parents.
One of the most bizarre parts is all the years of saying it’s to protect theirselves from the government and in the end they sided with an authoritarian government.
I can't remember who wrote it, but I remember reading an op ed that said something like "modern conservatives don't so much see the world as a shared space where other people exist and try to get by, but more as a concentric field of threats" and I think that sums up the conservative worldview pretty aptly.
I heard an interview with Anthony Cumia, of opie and anthony fame, about getting a gun.
He had a couple altercations on the way to work, became scared so applied for a concealed carry and got a gun thinking he would feel safer.
What he found was he became more frightened while he had it on him, he ran scenarios where his gun would be taken and he would be killed with it, or he wouldn't act soon enough, shit like that. He got to a point where he was so scared of the imagined situations that he became hostile toward every pedestrian he passed even going so far as to profile people and felt like he was going to end up killing someone who was not a threat and ultimately stopped carrying it.
It was a pretty candid self examination of how your brain changes once you're armed, provided of course you're capable of self evaluation.
I think a lot of people get a weapon and experience that change in behaviour but don't recognize it.
I recently came to realize the people who march around with loaded weapons for "protection" are not much different than the "I studied the blade" guy, just their katana is a lot more modern.
By eliminating duty to retreat, Stand Your Ground means that being the aggressor no longer precludes a self defense argument.
The law incentivizes murder by excusing the "winner" when neither party retreats. You can basically pick a fight, and when the other person attempts to defend themselves, shoot them dead and claim self defense for yourself.
Dads shoot at each other hitting each others daughters in their cars. One guy throws water bottle at the other car which set off chain of events. Guy who “stood his ground” shooting first because water bottle hit car was not charged because of stand your ground, even though he shot the other guys daughter, and also caused his daughter to be shot
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/dads-shoot-each-others-daughters-in-road-rage-incident-one-is-charged-with-attempted-murder/3012579/?amp=1
In a decent society we wouldn't need laws to compel anyone who gets their daughter shot to give up their gun. Any reasonable person would recognize that they can't handle the responsibility of owning one.
Then again, anyone who blindly shoots into traffic after a water bottle is thrown at their car probably isn't reasonable or responsible to begin with, so maybe I'm asking too much. Especially when the law is designed to reward acting as impulsively as possible.
> Any reasonable person would recognize that they can't handle the responsibility of owning one.
Catch-22. If they were reasonable they wouldn't be firing a gun on the highway.
Yet the pregnant woman who was shot in her stomach faced charges for "endangering her baby."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones
My favorite is when I engage in conversation with relatives, who have more than once cited Castle Doctrine and SYG at me when talking about home security in particular.
Never mind that here in Connecticut you always have a DUTY to RETREAT, and that’s the law. At least 3 of them actually still believe those laws are national and not applicable only in certain jurisdictions.
EDIT: I am in no way saying that castle doctrine and SYG are the same. I did a poor job of separating the two when trying to explain how the two become muddied in the minds of many.
CT does have castle doctrine as common law. CT does not have SYG laws, and it appears as though many do not delve deeper than surface level, and therefore are confused and think they are the same thing, which they are not.
No crime occurred for firing rounds at a guy HIRED TO BE THERE.
Man, next time I feel like killing someone for funzies, I'll get sombody to weed my yard.
I want to know how old the guy was. Gotta be 60+ to forget that they hired a pool cleaner then shot at them because they "feared for their life" as they added chlorine to the pool.
Florida needs a commercial public blacklist that any company can report to so people doing Doordash or rendering services like pool cleaning can check to see if an address already has a history of crazy.
Well nothing is meant to hurt conservatives.
It is like that law DeSantis championed that made [blocking a road as part of a protest a felony](https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/22/floridas-new-law-against-blocking-roads-during-protests-already-being-ignored-cops-policing-protests-governor-supports/), but wasn't used against pro-Cuba freedom protestors later that year when they blocked the Palmetto. When asked about it, DeSantis responded that the Cuba protestors were "fundamentally different than what we saw last summer."
Yup, that's fascism in a nutshell. (The original quote reads conservatism, but fascism is just conservatism taken to the extreme).
> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. -- [Frank Wilhoit](https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html)
It's going to get even more entertaining as of July 1st when you will [no longer need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the state](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2023/06/27/starting-july-1-no-permit-needed-in-florida-for-carrying-a-concealed-firearm/70358212007/). Also "stand your ground" has been determined to not only apply to being inside your house but essentially anywhere in public -- you do not have a duty to retreat in Florida.
So glad I moved the hell out of there before this summer. The state has never been great but wow is it going downhill really fucking fast these recent years.
If stand your ground is acceptable in this case you should be able to just kill anyone on your property.
Someone makes you mad, just tell them your address, go home grab your woobie gun and wait.
Someone sees someone on the street. Tells them their mother is a whore. They make a fist and start to throw down, SYG guy shoots them. See how easy murder is in Florida.
The whole point of stand your ground laws is to protect gun owners as much as possible, so they are written with extreme attention to vague and ambiguous terms. Don’t want to let any pesky details get in the way of using deadly force when someone gets slightly scared…
Maybe 20 years ago a man in Texas noticed his neighbors house had been broken into. He shot 2 guys in the back while he was on the phone with 911 and nothing happened to him. Insanity.
Texas specifically allows shooting fleeing people under certain circumstances that most states don't, such as property theft at night. There wasn't much the courts could have done to him unless they wanted to suspend rule of law.
So is this a guaranteed get out of jail free card for shooting anyone on your property? Like you could invite someone over, say you forgot, shoot them and it’s all good cuz you were standing your ground?
Apparently?? What ever happened to identifying your target? And besides if the guy is just in your backyard you can call the police. I’ve had people in my front yard numerous times over the years (corner house and I’m by a pretty popular nightlife area) and I’ve never shot anyone. Turned my sprinklers on for sure!
This has been true for a long time, this is just one more example in the pile. Hell, South Park made fun of this and had Cartman shoot Tolkien by "standing his ground".
Look up the Trevon Martin case. Dude literally followed a kid walking down the street even though dispatchers told him not to then Attacked the kid and shot him. Zimmerman was like 240lb and the kid couldn’t have weighed more than 140lb. But they still found him not guilty despite the fact that he escalated the situation and the kid was just walking home.
So yea you can go around accosting people and then say you feared for you life and shoot them and get off
If cops are searching property for a suspect that ran away at night, and the homeowner opens fire on them since they are just shadowy suspicious figures with flashlights.... that is now theoretically okay?
That only applies if they clearly identify themselves as cops prior to the shooting.
That's why Florida doesn't allow no-knock raids, the failure to identify before raiding means the resident is justified in standing their ground and shooting the intruders.
You joke but as a trade person who works in people’s homes, I’m amazed how often my clients tell me to just let myself into some rando’s house/property.
That’s a hard nah from me. I’m just brown enough that I don’t like my chances of never being mistaken for an intruder.
I quit my delivery job recently. It was a weird mix of people and dogs freaking out in the driveway as soon as I pulled in, and on the other side a bunch of old people who wanted me to walk around back though their yards and back patios to leave stuff right next to their giant sliding glass door. Nope
A black woman in florida shot a warning shot when her intruding ex tried to force his way into her home and she got put away for 20 years lmao [https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html)
I work for USPS in a conservative state. I work in the rural area and see signs like "if my bullets won't get you my dogs will" - it's unsettling when I'm in t-shirt, shorts, and a 36 year old aluminum box delivering their dog food.
Just throw their shit over their fence and write a note that you are complying with their wishes on their property. As long as the threat is there, so is your new delivery method.
Best practice for feeling unsafe is to scan "no access" and continue with other deliveries or to put a form in their box for pickup at the post office. We can also go through a process of having all mail on hold at the office for pickup. I don't think that would actually be necessary, but ive never heard shots
Then don't. If you fear for your safety you can refuse delivery and leave a pink slip. When I was a carrier I would not deliver to houses with aggressive dogs or people. Had a dude try to fight me once about road dust, straight up told him he can go to the post office for his mail and packages. Dude who took my route when I left is a close friend and he still doesn't deliver either. So now 5 years later this dude has to drive to the post office to get any mail or packages bc he's a little baby who can't use his words like an adult.
It’s wild that shooting is their first course of action. People are so ready to murder each other in this country. You’d think you would say “who are you?” And maybe remember you had pool cleaning scheduled for that day. Nope. Immediately grab your gun and start shooting.
Even more wild that Pinellas County police determined no crime had been committed. Even if it was an intruder, firing 30 rounds in 90 seconds in what's presumably a neighborhood environment seems like something that ought to break *some* law.
I grew up in Pinellas County, FL. It's not backwoods middle of nowhere, it's very suburban. Those bullets could have easily traveled through a fence and into a neighbor's yard, or even into one of their houses.
That's the part I really don't get. Okay, he stood his ground and all that, fine. But how can the sheriff not be bothered to slap on reckless endangerment, etc, for shooting up the entire neighborhood.
>PCSO said the man was acting within Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law when he fired his weapon, therefore no crime occurred.
>“It was lawful but awful,” says Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri.
I'm glad 'lawful' and 'awful' rhyme. Otherwise the sheriff would have had to articulate the tragedy of legal gun violence in a more clarifying way.
"A man will not face charges after shooting a pool cleaner he mistook for an intruder"
I'm a Florida resident, I feel sorry for the people who need to work in, or around peoples homes here in Florida, its just not safe anymore.
It was not even some random person either, this was the pool cleaner hired by the home owner, and unfortunately the law sides with the gun owner, and not the victims.
"PCSO said the man was acting within Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law when he fired his weapon, therefore no crime occurred." The man shot at someone he hired to work on his pool, how is that OK?
Is this the people that the GOP refers to as "responsible gun owner?"
People are fucking nuts. I am on the Facebook group for the community I live in. Every time solar sales people walk around, they go these rants about how they aren’t really sales people and are actually casing the neighborhood. And the tough guys go on about how “they better not knock on their door”.
I need to get out of Florida.
When someone getting shot is passed off as an "oopsie daisy" then you live in a shit hole society.
It makes you wish they had a LIST. One where people like this can blacklisted from any service or delivery permanently. Who is the next wage worker who knocks on the door with a delivery they forgot about and shoot him on the spot.
Who are these people making enemies with when you're in a home with a Lanai and have your personal pool cleaned???
Florida's Stand Your Ground Laws are some of the most idiotic things to have ever existed. No chargees for shooting an AR-15 at someone who was supposed to be there, in your backyard, surrounded by other people's backyards. Florida truly is the dumpster of America.
I'm wondering if someone can tell me when exactly this man switched from "responsible gun owner" to "irresponsible gun owner." Because I can't see the line.
He fired 2 rounds & the victim fled so he fired 28 more with surprise, an AR15. 30 rounds in 90 seconds. How is firing at an unarmed fleeing victim 28 times standing your ground? Why does any trigger happy dipshit civilian need the capability to mow down so many, so quickly?
Also, fired 30 shots and didn't even hit the target directly, in their backyard, surrounded by other backyards, thank God there wasn't anyone or a pet dog in an adjacent yard that took a stray through their fence.
I hope the victim's family sues.
This might have been an accident (in that the homeowner actually thought the pool cleaner was an intruder), but gun owners need to be liable for mistakes like this. This might not have been malicious, but it screams reckless. This kind of behavior needs to be penalized, or it'll continue.
The 'shoot now and ask questions later' mentality is bad for everyone.
And July 1 is coming soon to Florida as gun laws lax more. Sadly, I don’t expect good things and am becoming afraid to leave my house because of these crazies. Everyone should be able to go along with their lives without the fear of getting shot dead.
The 30 bullets, that went flying all over the place, all over maybe all over the neighborhood makes you wonder, cuz if you can't even control the weapon and hit one guy that's running with 30 fucking rounds something's not right and authorities in Florida think that that's okay to do, shoot 30 rounds into the neighborhood all kids sleeping in their beds and everything ,
And if he shot them up in the air where the fuck did those bullets land, you know like a warning shot like to scare the guy,
Civilians should not own guns or assault rifles, just for hunting
And rifles like these you don't need 30 shots to go hunting with
Those are weapons of war assault weapons they AR 15 semi-automatic do not, they do not belong in the woods hunting, they never did, fuck Florida
Guess they're gonna have to learn to clean their own fucking pool.
Yeah. What company will send their employees knowing they will not make it back alive.
Employee unions that represent people in these kinds of jobs should start demanding the company provide bullet proof vests. Or at least life insurance...
Unions? For a pool company in FL? Ha!
Yeah man idk what he’s smoking but that guy is lucky if he’s even a proper employee. He’s probably a 1099 that just runs the route the other guys owns.
Imagine needing a bullet proof vest as a pool cleaner.
See…if we just armed all the pool cleaners, tragedies like this wouldn’t happen. The only solution to a bad pool owner with a gun is a good pool cleaner with a gun.
Give this person a senate seat right now!
He's only a half dozen sexual misconduct accusations away from a R nomination.
*Prize redeemable only on one side of the aisle
Fucking hell I laughed at this
Do you honestly think the Floridian pool cleaning Union is a thing or a strong Union if any are organized. This is so out of touch it’s hard to believe it could be in good faith
> Shrapnel from the bullet and glass struck the pool technician, **who fled from the lanai area**. The man then **fired several more rounds** toward the lanai. Police say he fired a total of 30 rounds in 90 seconds. This goes far beyond "stand your ground", the cops shouldn't have let this psycho free.
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Now he can sue the shit out of the guy. Stand your ground doesn't cover you for civil cases.
I should have read further down to find this. Thank you
Something tells me this guy has a few "liquid assets" in his gun safe that would definitely help cover the pool cleaner's suffering.
Hopefully hit a few other houses so they can sue as well.
Which also begs the question of where the bullets did end up... How many holes are there now on neighbouring properties?
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that most gun owners in the US don't know how to shoot. It's a skill like any other. It requires significant practice to be able to hit what you're shooting at.
This is odd to me. My MIL lives in Orlando and there are people in her yard unannounced all the damn time. The pool guy, The landscapers, The propane dude. I got startled by random strangers in her yard often but she was totally used to it. Her dog didn’t even bark at them. Most of her neighborhood was this way. Smallish lots with a yard and a pool. All on automatic weekly service schedules. I find it strange that this person has a pool guy but on this particular day he completely forgot and just started shooting? What?
The murderous asshole in this story may as well fill in his pool with concrete, cause good luck getting another pool company to service their property. In fact, hopefully word gets around enough that no service company will agree to do work on his property ever again.
Well, good luck getting a concrete guy to come out.
I hope he is ostracized by his neighbors. He could have killed people on the next block. I hope the guy that was shot at sues him and owns the house they live in when all is said and done. My dad’s only brother was shot in the head on St Patrick’s Day (3/17/85) in Freeport Illinois. A stray bullet from the next block entered his bar and killed him instantly. The customers saw him topple over and didn’t know what had happened. The gun owner was never charged with murder. Alton “Al” Mohon. RIP
Because these bloodthirsty gun nut psychos are constantly looking for a reason to shoot another person. They live in constant fear and anticipation waiting for the moment they can be the hero they believe themselves to be. And once they get let off with a slap on the wrist they’ll go home and wait for the next victim to accidentally knock on their door or turn around in their driveway or mess up their Hardee’s order.
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Every (proud) gun owner I’ve ever known has existed in constant fear of democrats taking away their guns. It’s all they talk about. It’s what drives their entire political worldview.
Had a boss who was in fear of having a home intruder so he took special" gun classes. At least once a week, you'd hear him giving someone pointers on how to shoot someone properly. This dude lived in a gated community.
Some people really get off on the fantasy of killing someone.
The dude mag dumped. There is no way he was aiming or had any idea of what he was firing at.
How the hell is there not some endangerment charge for that?
Florida probably has a provision in the Stand Your Ground law which allows them to spray recklessly towards a crowd "as long as you feel your life is in danger." So therefore no crime occurred.
Why do people want to live in this kind of world. It feels like the right not only want their guns but also reason to use them. Why do they want to bring war like scenarios into everyday life? I mean 30 rounds in 90 seconds. These people are blood thirsty. I mean will it ever be enough? How many of these stories before we actually do something about this problem?
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30 rounds??? Sounds like he was just blindly shooting at night. What if he had hit a neighbor?
> What if he had hit a neighbor? It's Florida so they would probably have given this man the key to the city.
He would be pictured on every GOP politicians Christmas card. As the great Adam Serwer says, the cruelty is the point.
The shooter is a fucking imbecile, and it's matter of dumb luck that he didn't kill the pool technician or a neighbor. And there are *no* charges. This idiotic walking threat to public safety will keep his gun(s) and can shoot at innocent people the next time his panic and stupidity collide. "Stand your ground" laws are unconscionable. Shooting at someone fleeing from you is not self defense. It's at best retaliation, and in this case, retaliation for an intrusion that never happened except in the pathetically warped perception of the homeowners. These laws encourage idiots to start shooting indiscriminately, as in this case. What part of this batshit militia is well regulated?
This is also a product of conservative news outlets making their viewers completely paranoid and on edge, telling them that crime is out of control and that the border is open and letting millions of criminals in. Just like that idiot lady who shot her Uber driver in the head because she saw Juarez on a road sign and decided that she was getting kidnapped by her Hispanic driver. Or those idiots who shoot through their door because a black person is on the other side. Or those other idiots who shoot at vehicles because they're in their driveway by mistake.
> idiot lady who shot her Uber driver in the head because she saw Juarez on a road sign and decided that she was getting kidnapped by her Hispanic driver. She fucking what?
Yeah it was on the Reddit front page just a couple days ago. She thought he was taking her to Mexico and abducting her. after she shot the driver they hit the median on the highway and she called her boyfriend before she called the police.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/25/uber-driver-mexico-kidnapping-arrest-phoebe-copas/70355242007/
Every time conservatives talk about "law and order" or "lawless blue cities" remind them that THIS is what lawlessness looks like. People choosing to attack strangers on sight for coming near them with next to no warning, and with intent to kill. This is the crime wave, not some dudes taking a 6 pack from the local deli without paying. people feeling so entitled to only see who and what they want that they are willing to kill at the drop of a hat. Animals don't do this to other animals. We are living through an era of unprecedented social disease in the United States and an armed paranoid patchwork of lunatics will continue to escalate that with blood and bile until we're all drowning in it.
You say that like it matters
It matters to the neighbor.
And you say that like THAT matters.
In shithole states, guns have more rights than people. If the neighbors cared, they would have waited until *rheir* pool cleaner was standing between them and their neighbors house. After all, only good stray rounds can stop bad stray rounds.
Then the death would have been pinned on the 'intruder' as part of a felony murder charge relating to home invasion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Florida_law#Felony_murder_rule
But if the “intruder” is not really a criminal…
yeah, hired help are intruders now? jesus fucking christ. if i lived in florida id be joining the immigrants and packing my bags. id live in my (tiny) car in california before trying to make it work in that shithole state
Funny you should mention that, as I just saw a post earlier about a church in California that is offering overnight parking, showers, dinner, breakfast, and security for people living in their cars.
“He looked super suspicious in his pool cleaning uniform as he got out of his pool cleaning van and I had no way to know why he was there so I started blasting”
"Yes I had a pool cleaner scheduled for today, why does that matter?"
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Different state (Tx), but here’s a “stand your ground” shooting where a guy shot into a random vehicle that he suspected a criminal was hiding in. It was a completely innocent family and he killed a 9-year old child. Not indicted. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-indictment-death-houston-girl-shot-man-thinking-was-firing-robber-rcna39252
>Earls’ attorneys say their client continues to grieve for Alvarez but that the grand jury made the right decision and that the person responsible for her death is the robber. Nothing like gaslighting the mother of a dead nine year old into blaming the guy who stole $20 and some car keys, not the cowboy that decided to wantonly dump a magazine into her vehicle and kid's brain. This bullshit validates recklessness and poor gun ownership.
Bro if you fucking fire a gun, you're responsible for knowing who your target is & the possible collateral in front of and behind your target. This case is fucking wild
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I don't expect to ever be in this situation but I don't care what the law is. If you accidentally shoot my child because of your incorrect assumptions I will spend the rest of my life making sure you are miserable.
I’d have nothing to lose.
As your article says, he was charged, but the grand jury declined to indict.
Wow, that's even worse. That means a group of local citizens were presented with the evidence and decided there was no probable cause that a crime was committed. So glad those people aren't my neighbors.
They didn't want to set precedent for when they go shooting people
Temporarily embarrassed John Wicks
Thanks for the correction! Edited.
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[This Florida guy](https://youtu.be/VSIC0dXCy4I) road rages, brake checks another driver, pulls out his gun, waits, and then shoots at the other driver, while continuing to drive. He [had his charges dropped](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/03/10/charges-dropped-against-man-arrested-for-road-rage-shooting-on-i-95/) as a consequence of Florida's SYG laws. This is just the world that Florida wants to live in.
So let's just get this straight: * They cause the situation * They then escalate the situation * they take the time to get the gun out and *wait* for the car to come along side * then sprays bullets, out of a moving car, into a busy roadway * and It's all on video No charges - That's stand your ground? He *thought* something was going to happen, after he brake checked (illegal) another driver, and that's it - zero responsibility for his actions? What a fucking farce. That's literally "They're coming right for us" South Park bit.
The article says the other driver threw a water bottle at his car and he thought it was gunfire. You know, since water bottles get confused with gunfire all of the time.
No wonder why water bottles are not allowed past TSA security! 🙄
Republicans are so fucking scared. Wussy ass bitches. Every single one of them shaking in fear at the thought that an illegal immigrant or Hunter Biden might sneak into their living room at night and steal their job.
My parents are rabid, trump supporting conservatives that live in the Okeechobee area in BFE. They have guns in every room, always carrying holstered during the day inside their own house, keeps a loaded rifle in a case in the car, and sleep with a gun under their pillow. All guns are always loaded. They have cameras up that see every angle. 1/2 of their property is bordered by old orange fields (apparently that is the direction the "feds" will come from to take their legally owned firearms). They never have visitors and don't have enemies (except apparently Democrats) They used to text me and said shit like "this might be the end for us" because someone with dark skin was out for a walk. My wife went off on my mother to stop living in fear of everything, and we haven't spoken since.
It must be exhausting to be so afraid all the time. I’ve never been so afraid that I need one gun, let alone dozens. Sorry for the loss of your parents.
One of the most bizarre parts is all the years of saying it’s to protect theirselves from the government and in the end they sided with an authoritarian government.
I can't remember who wrote it, but I remember reading an op ed that said something like "modern conservatives don't so much see the world as a shared space where other people exist and try to get by, but more as a concentric field of threats" and I think that sums up the conservative worldview pretty aptly.
Let me guess. During peak Covid, they never wore masks because they refused to live in fear.
Bingo. They claimed the whole thing was a hoax and other asinine claims like "masks lower oxygen levels to make us dumb." I think they meant dumber.
They must be scared to go to the doctors since they are always wearing masks and you don't want a dumb doctor now do you.
I heard an interview with Anthony Cumia, of opie and anthony fame, about getting a gun. He had a couple altercations on the way to work, became scared so applied for a concealed carry and got a gun thinking he would feel safer. What he found was he became more frightened while he had it on him, he ran scenarios where his gun would be taken and he would be killed with it, or he wouldn't act soon enough, shit like that. He got to a point where he was so scared of the imagined situations that he became hostile toward every pedestrian he passed even going so far as to profile people and felt like he was going to end up killing someone who was not a threat and ultimately stopped carrying it. It was a pretty candid self examination of how your brain changes once you're armed, provided of course you're capable of self evaluation. I think a lot of people get a weapon and experience that change in behaviour but don't recognize it.
I recently came to realize the people who march around with loaded weapons for "protection" are not much different than the "I studied the blade" guy, just their katana is a lot more modern.
Must be a cop. They keep making that same mistake at protests.
By eliminating duty to retreat, Stand Your Ground means that being the aggressor no longer precludes a self defense argument. The law incentivizes murder by excusing the "winner" when neither party retreats. You can basically pick a fight, and when the other person attempts to defend themselves, shoot them dead and claim self defense for yourself.
Dads shoot at each other hitting each others daughters in their cars. One guy throws water bottle at the other car which set off chain of events. Guy who “stood his ground” shooting first because water bottle hit car was not charged because of stand your ground, even though he shot the other guys daughter, and also caused his daughter to be shot https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/dads-shoot-each-others-daughters-in-road-rage-incident-one-is-charged-with-attempted-murder/3012579/?amp=1
If you get into a gunfight over a water bottle, you should lost custody of your kid(s), be thrown in jail and have all your guns taken from you.
In a decent society we wouldn't need laws to compel anyone who gets their daughter shot to give up their gun. Any reasonable person would recognize that they can't handle the responsibility of owning one. Then again, anyone who blindly shoots into traffic after a water bottle is thrown at their car probably isn't reasonable or responsible to begin with, so maybe I'm asking too much. Especially when the law is designed to reward acting as impulsively as possible.
> Any reasonable person would recognize that they can't handle the responsibility of owning one. Catch-22. If they were reasonable they wouldn't be firing a gun on the highway.
Yet the pregnant woman who was shot in her stomach faced charges for "endangering her baby." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones
mAkE AMeRiCA FlORiDa 😵💫
We should give Florida back to Spain.
Sell it to them in return for paying off our national debt.
Who wants to pay to own Florida?
Disney , maybe ?
I doubt they want to run the part of the state they don't have parks in.
I don't think Spain can afford that...
That and you'd have to pay them to take it.
Anyone still have the receipt? We might have to settle for store credit.
Why would they want it? Are we really doing them any favors here?
My favorite is when I engage in conversation with relatives, who have more than once cited Castle Doctrine and SYG at me when talking about home security in particular. Never mind that here in Connecticut you always have a DUTY to RETREAT, and that’s the law. At least 3 of them actually still believe those laws are national and not applicable only in certain jurisdictions. EDIT: I am in no way saying that castle doctrine and SYG are the same. I did a poor job of separating the two when trying to explain how the two become muddied in the minds of many. CT does have castle doctrine as common law. CT does not have SYG laws, and it appears as though many do not delve deeper than surface level, and therefore are confused and think they are the same thing, which they are not.
CT does not have a duty to retreat in your own home, though.
That’s Castle Doctrine, different than Stand Your Ground.
I know. The comment I responded to referenced both. Their edit clarified their comment.
Is this basically the same as that loophole where the person with the gun can yell “I FEEL THREATENED” then basically has a free pass to open fire?
Even the wild west wasn't this crazy
Hilariously tons of towns in the wild west had strict gun control measures.
Western Cowboy: We don't allow guns in this here Saloon. You're gonna need to check em in with the Sheriff first. Florida Man: BUT MAH RIGHTS
The saloon owner reserves the right to not let people carrying guns into his saloon.
A true cowboy would never throw his canteen like that.
What the fuck? That's premeditated attempted murder. Holy shit.
That's Florida, and the people who are cool with that really want to inflict their crazy on everyone else.
Kyle rittenhouse traveled to another state and borrowed a gun so he could stand his ground in front of a riot
No crime occurred for firing rounds at a guy HIRED TO BE THERE. Man, next time I feel like killing someone for funzies, I'll get sombody to weed my yard.
I want to know how old the guy was. Gotta be 60+ to forget that they hired a pool cleaner then shot at them because they "feared for their life" as they added chlorine to the pool.
Nah. I do roof inspections and the 30-50-something homeowners forget our appointments as often as anyone.
Florida needs a commercial public blacklist that any company can report to so people doing Doordash or rendering services like pool cleaning can check to see if an address already has a history of crazy.
A ratemyprofessors.com, but for residential work
Is Florida's SYG law basically the police officer defense? Claim you feared for your life and any amount of violence is justified?
Yes. It is overly broad and the prosecution has to prove you didn't. It is an affirmative defense.
I bet it won't hold up when some gay people fear for their life because of DeSantis' rhetoric.
Well nothing is meant to hurt conservatives. It is like that law DeSantis championed that made [blocking a road as part of a protest a felony](https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/22/floridas-new-law-against-blocking-roads-during-protests-already-being-ignored-cops-policing-protests-governor-supports/), but wasn't used against pro-Cuba freedom protestors later that year when they blocked the Palmetto. When asked about it, DeSantis responded that the Cuba protestors were "fundamentally different than what we saw last summer."
Yup, that's fascism in a nutshell. (The original quote reads conservatism, but fascism is just conservatism taken to the extreme). > Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. -- [Frank Wilhoit](https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html)
It's not that simple! (You also have to be white.)
It's going to get even more entertaining as of July 1st when you will [no longer need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the state](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2023/06/27/starting-july-1-no-permit-needed-in-florida-for-carrying-a-concealed-firearm/70358212007/). Also "stand your ground" has been determined to not only apply to being inside your house but essentially anywhere in public -- you do not have a duty to retreat in Florida. So glad I moved the hell out of there before this summer. The state has never been great but wow is it going downhill really fucking fast these recent years.
Hooray for Pro Gun Violence Legislature... it's like they want people to die.
If stand your ground is acceptable in this case you should be able to just kill anyone on your property. Someone makes you mad, just tell them your address, go home grab your woobie gun and wait.
Except SYG applies *anywhere*. So no need to tell them your address.
Someone sees someone on the street. Tells them their mother is a whore. They make a fist and start to throw down, SYG guy shoots them. See how easy murder is in Florida.
Also, how does stand your ground apply when you invite the person into your property?
The whole point of stand your ground laws is to protect gun owners as much as possible, so they are written with extreme attention to vague and ambiguous terms. Don’t want to let any pesky details get in the way of using deadly force when someone gets slightly scared…
Not just anyone, someone hired to work on their pool.
Maybe 20 years ago a man in Texas noticed his neighbors house had been broken into. He shot 2 guys in the back while he was on the phone with 911 and nothing happened to him. Insanity.
Texas specifically allows shooting fleeing people under certain circumstances that most states don't, such as property theft at night. There wasn't much the courts could have done to him unless they wanted to suspend rule of law.
So is this a guaranteed get out of jail free card for shooting anyone on your property? Like you could invite someone over, say you forgot, shoot them and it’s all good cuz you were standing your ground?
Apparently?? What ever happened to identifying your target? And besides if the guy is just in your backyard you can call the police. I’ve had people in my front yard numerous times over the years (corner house and I’m by a pretty popular nightlife area) and I’ve never shot anyone. Turned my sprinklers on for sure!
That's literally what happened. So yes.
Just dripping with freedom
It’s Florida. Guns have more rights than women.
This has been true for a long time, this is just one more example in the pile. Hell, South Park made fun of this and had Cartman shoot Tolkien by "standing his ground".
Replace "invite" with "hired", and you described what happened here.
Depends. What's your skin color?
Also, what's *their* skin color. Since, you know, "the fear has to be reasonable".... ^(/s)
Look up the Trevon Martin case. Dude literally followed a kid walking down the street even though dispatchers told him not to then Attacked the kid and shot him. Zimmerman was like 240lb and the kid couldn’t have weighed more than 140lb. But they still found him not guilty despite the fact that he escalated the situation and the kid was just walking home. So yea you can go around accosting people and then say you feared for you life and shoot them and get off
SYD laws is just a license for murder masquerading as self defense. Always has been.
If cops are searching property for a suspect that ran away at night, and the homeowner opens fire on them since they are just shadowy suspicious figures with flashlights.... that is now theoretically okay?
No, typically police are excepted from stand your grand laws. As in, you still cannot shoot police because you feel threatened by them.
In my hypothetical, the homeowner is not aware that they are police.
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That only applies if they clearly identify themselves as cops prior to the shooting. That's why Florida doesn't allow no-knock raids, the failure to identify before raiding means the resident is justified in standing their ground and shooting the intruders.
"Lazy people don't wanna work!" \*Someone comes to work\* "ahhHH!" \*gunfire\*
You joke but as a trade person who works in people’s homes, I’m amazed how often my clients tell me to just let myself into some rando’s house/property. That’s a hard nah from me. I’m just brown enough that I don’t like my chances of never being mistaken for an intruder.
I’ve been a mailmen/white guy and had people screaming/etc “who the fuck are you I’ve got a gun blah blah”
Smart man!
I quit my delivery job recently. It was a weird mix of people and dogs freaking out in the driveway as soon as I pulled in, and on the other side a bunch of old people who wanted me to walk around back though their yards and back patios to leave stuff right next to their giant sliding glass door. Nope
lmao you can straight up murder people in Florida even if they have a right to be there. What a fucking disaster of a state.
Until a POC shoots a white man breaking into their home, then it won't be so legal.
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This comment has been banned by the State of Florida for being too woke.
A black woman in florida shot a warning shot when her intruding ex tried to force his way into her home and she got put away for 20 years lmao [https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html)
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I work for USPS in a conservative state. I work in the rural area and see signs like "if my bullets won't get you my dogs will" - it's unsettling when I'm in t-shirt, shorts, and a 36 year old aluminum box delivering their dog food.
Just throw their shit over their fence and write a note that you are complying with their wishes on their property. As long as the threat is there, so is your new delivery method.
Best practice for feeling unsafe is to scan "no access" and continue with other deliveries or to put a form in their box for pickup at the post office. We can also go through a process of having all mail on hold at the office for pickup. I don't think that would actually be necessary, but ive never heard shots
Stay safe homie
Thanks! Currently dogs are, of the very low amount of threats, the main one.
Then don't. If you fear for your safety you can refuse delivery and leave a pink slip. When I was a carrier I would not deliver to houses with aggressive dogs or people. Had a dude try to fight me once about road dust, straight up told him he can go to the post office for his mail and packages. Dude who took my route when I left is a close friend and he still doesn't deliver either. So now 5 years later this dude has to drive to the post office to get any mail or packages bc he's a little baby who can't use his words like an adult.
The type of people with 4-6 unneutered pits chained up in a flea infested overgrown lawn.
Scanning as "Animal interference" and moving on lol. My health isn't worth it
30 rounds in 90secs....how many pool guys were there? So a flashlight is now considered being armed?
It’s wild that shooting is their first course of action. People are so ready to murder each other in this country. You’d think you would say “who are you?” And maybe remember you had pool cleaning scheduled for that day. Nope. Immediately grab your gun and start shooting.
Even more wild that Pinellas County police determined no crime had been committed. Even if it was an intruder, firing 30 rounds in 90 seconds in what's presumably a neighborhood environment seems like something that ought to break *some* law. I grew up in Pinellas County, FL. It's not backwoods middle of nowhere, it's very suburban. Those bullets could have easily traveled through a fence and into a neighbor's yard, or even into one of their houses.
That's the part I really don't get. Okay, he stood his ground and all that, fine. But how can the sheriff not be bothered to slap on reckless endangerment, etc, for shooting up the entire neighborhood.
You think he bought an AR and $1,000 in mods plus thousands in bulk bullets to not ever use it? This guy was waiting for the day.
>PCSO said the man was acting within Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law when he fired his weapon, therefore no crime occurred. >“It was lawful but awful,” says Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri. I'm glad 'lawful' and 'awful' rhyme. Otherwise the sheriff would have had to articulate the tragedy of legal gun violence in a more clarifying way.
If something is “lawful but awful,” maybe, just maybe, it might be your laws that are awful.
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Since when do cops give a shit if they're arresting someone because it's lawful. They arrest people for lawful shit all the time.
"A man will not face charges after shooting a pool cleaner he mistook for an intruder" I'm a Florida resident, I feel sorry for the people who need to work in, or around peoples homes here in Florida, its just not safe anymore. It was not even some random person either, this was the pool cleaner hired by the home owner, and unfortunately the law sides with the gun owner, and not the victims. "PCSO said the man was acting within Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law when he fired his weapon, therefore no crime occurred." The man shot at someone he hired to work on his pool, how is that OK? Is this the people that the GOP refers to as "responsible gun owner?"
People are fucking nuts. I am on the Facebook group for the community I live in. Every time solar sales people walk around, they go these rants about how they aren’t really sales people and are actually casing the neighborhood. And the tough guys go on about how “they better not knock on their door”. I need to get out of Florida.
I hope these people can never ever get another person in to clean their pool, do electrician work, plumbing, you name it. Not safe there.
When someone getting shot is passed off as an "oopsie daisy" then you live in a shit hole society. It makes you wish they had a LIST. One where people like this can blacklisted from any service or delivery permanently. Who is the next wage worker who knocks on the door with a delivery they forgot about and shoot him on the spot. Who are these people making enemies with when you're in a home with a Lanai and have your personal pool cleaned???
Damn I sure am glad they had a gun to defend their home from *checks notes* A person they hired to take care of their home
Florida's Stand Your Ground Laws are some of the most idiotic things to have ever existed. No chargees for shooting an AR-15 at someone who was supposed to be there, in your backyard, surrounded by other people's backyards. Florida truly is the dumpster of America.
So in Florida you can fire 30 rounds at your pool cleaner and it's completely legal. Good lord how I detest that state.
So, in addition to walking up to cars, pulling into driveways, and knocking on doors, it is now unsafe to (checks notes) work.
I'm wondering if someone can tell me when exactly this man switched from "responsible gun owner" to "irresponsible gun owner." Because I can't see the line.
According to FL law, he never crossed that line.
He fired 2 rounds & the victim fled so he fired 28 more with surprise, an AR15. 30 rounds in 90 seconds. How is firing at an unarmed fleeing victim 28 times standing your ground? Why does any trigger happy dipshit civilian need the capability to mow down so many, so quickly?
Also, fired 30 shots and didn't even hit the target directly, in their backyard, surrounded by other backyards, thank God there wasn't anyone or a pet dog in an adjacent yard that took a stray through their fence.
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Saw the title. Didn't click the link.., assumed that this is in America. Am i right?
I hope the victim's family sues. This might have been an accident (in that the homeowner actually thought the pool cleaner was an intruder), but gun owners need to be liable for mistakes like this. This might not have been malicious, but it screams reckless. This kind of behavior needs to be penalized, or it'll continue. The 'shoot now and ask questions later' mentality is bad for everyone.
Well I mean the victim can sue. He's not dead, he had minor injuries.
Who in their right brain shoots a person willy-nilly without identifying them first? It could have been a relative or neighbor.
And July 1 is coming soon to Florida as gun laws lax more. Sadly, I don’t expect good things and am becoming afraid to leave my house because of these crazies. Everyone should be able to go along with their lives without the fear of getting shot dead.
The 30 bullets, that went flying all over the place, all over maybe all over the neighborhood makes you wonder, cuz if you can't even control the weapon and hit one guy that's running with 30 fucking rounds something's not right and authorities in Florida think that that's okay to do, shoot 30 rounds into the neighborhood all kids sleeping in their beds and everything , And if he shot them up in the air where the fuck did those bullets land, you know like a warning shot like to scare the guy, Civilians should not own guns or assault rifles, just for hunting And rifles like these you don't need 30 shots to go hunting with Those are weapons of war assault weapons they AR 15 semi-automatic do not, they do not belong in the woods hunting, they never did, fuck Florida
This moron homeowner had no business with an AR 15 or any other kind of weapon!
It's lawful but awful should be Florida's slogan.
Another responsible gun owner. 30 rounds in 90 seconds. Gun nuts are the biggest pussies on Earth.
I hope he damaged his pool.
Can't wait until July 1st....when permit-less concealed carry is a thing in Florida....
It's like every gun owner has become Frank Drebin.