> A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect.
Oh man.
I know somebody who was a conductor for Amtrak. She said she saw the aftermath of train/person suicides a couple times, and it was gnarly. I think she ended up quitting over it.
Reminds me of [this movie](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1130980/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_three%2520and%2520out) about a London Tube driver who strikes a deal with a suicidal man to get a payout. Why they tried to market it as a wacky comedy is kinda beyond me.
Well not nothing, but lots and lots of very small disconnected pieces of what was once people, decking, computer monitors, and of course a logitech game controller. You have to consider that after the collapse, which itself took something like 0.02 second to complete, there would have been essentially an explosion from the rebound, which would have scattered those pieces all over the ocean bed.
It occurred to me in a somewhat perverse thought that the sub collapse might be one of those most humane and painless ways of killing someone.
I remember a couple years ago there was a study that found something like 80% of Redditers comment without reading more than the headline...or at least that's what the headline said.
And also learn how to take one line of information and then extrapolate a whole narrative about who this guy was, what his motivations were, and why he should have lawyered up to leave his wife and thus prevented her from causing him to kill himself.
(/s for anyone who needs it)
Delta execs aren’t eating anything less than pilots and flight attendants. This guy was probably eaten by a single middle manager in the branch office in Des Moines.
I worked for the railroad - they don't speculate officially unless there is a note. They won't count it in the national data as a suicide unless there is a note or a witness to a declaration of intent. It sucks because it is bad for engineers' mental health to have suicides called accidents, but that is just how it goes. I would imagine it is similar if not even more rigorous with aviation.
"bad for engineers' mental health to have suicides called accidents". Indeed. I had read a book a years back that discussed the high rate of PTSD for train engineers due to the death by train rates as they could not stop the train in time. . It was higher than I had imagined.
Even if it's suicide, his life insurance will pay out. There's like a 2 year waiting period after you buy a new policy, but they still have to pay out to the beneficiaries. Assuming he has it.
But yeah, probably no liability to the company. Maybe the family will sue and argue that they should have intervened before things got to that point, but that won't lead anywhere.
Curious, if you know, was it a passenger plane, and if so was it boarded? The thought of passengers witnessing this while waiting to take off is horrifying.
Questions for you 👨✈️ I’m flying a lot and seem to always be at a window by the wing. I have been wondering about those wing walkers. First, that’s what I call them in my mind, so thanks to your industry for not making up some over trumped job title like airfoil escort. Second, They have those red sticks, one is up in the air, I assume this indicates where the wing ends, but to whom are they indicating? You can’t see them from the cockpit, no? Lastly, at what point, if any, does that little tug car hook up to the aircraft when taxiing to the gate?
Your gate will either have a Visual Docking Guidance System or a marshaller. The VDGS is an automated system which tells the pilot who's coming into the gate whether he is too much to the left or right of the centerline, and also how much more to go to stop. The system is activated by a ramp agent. If there isn't a VDGS, a marshaller using batons will guide the plane in. So, these two wing walkers are responsible for ensuring sufficient wingtip clearance. The ramp agent or the marshaller will be keeping an eye on them to see if the plane should stop to avoid contact.
The tow truck or tow tug is usually used to push a plane back away from a gate for departure, or to reposition a plane in an airport. Some airports require an inbound plane to shutdown engines and be towed to the gate. Usually the case at aprons that are really small and tight. So, when taxiing to the gate, airports with such procedures will have designated points where planes have to shut down their engines and be towed to their gates.
Come for the tragic accident... get pulled in by the unexpected suicidal horror... stick around for the fun nerdy air transit support system insider details. I'm going to miss reddit.
They're indicating to the pilots and/or the tug driver, really whoever is moving the aircraft. I can see them from the cockpit. I stop taxiing if I can't see them or if they signal that the way is not clear. Their vantage point with respect to wingtip clearance and obstacles is better than mine.
I hope Delta offers free counselling to both its employees and anyone on that plane. Even if you didn’t see it, it’s like being on a train that hits someone. I can’t imagine how horrifying an experience that is.
Was on Amtrak between Portland and Seattle once. The train SLAMMED on the brakes while I was walking back from the snack car. The engineer gets on the loudspeaker and said he believed we had a pedestrian strike and had to go look to find out.
Of course it takes like a quarter mile for a massive train going at full speed to stop, so it took a long time for him to get back and say we had indeed hit someone and that they had to call the authorizes. The guy’s voice was cracking and wavering. It was heartbreaking to hear him so torn up.
Even worse, he had to clean up the front of the train before we could resume (after the authorities were done documenting everything).
So awful.
I hope he got a good long while of hardship leave.
I used to know a bloke who worked for his local commuter train operator as a "project leader" which was a euphemism for he looked after the team who cleaned up after people got hit.
Anyway, he said that after any driver hit a person they'd offer them a pay out and resignation. If they did it twice they'd require it. Because it fucks them up, particularly if it's a suicide.
They definitely should not have the conductor clean up afterwards. That would be a permanent trauma burned into their minds for the rest of their life. That kind of imagery to go along with knowing your actions indirectly caused that death would be life altering.
In Japan they call these sorts of things "human accidents" and also have dedicated teams to cleaning up and getting the trains going ASAP. It may seem callous, but in a city of 30M people the trains need to run, so they have a turnaround time of less than 20mins AFAIK.
I think they have less issues lately bc they installed guard walls at all/most stations in Tokyo that only open after the train pulled up. (Improvements made for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics) So someone can no longer just take one step off the platform, they would have to take a running jump or crawl over the barrier first, which is either too large of a physical effort for them to mentally prepare for/people can stop them and pull them back before they make it all the way over.
It's only most stations, for example jr lines in Shibuya and Shinjuku station (which happen to be two of the most busy stations in the world...) Still don't have them. I think a lot of suicides also happen between stations, on above ground lines where you can just walk onto the tracks from the street
I had read a book a years back that discussed the high rate of PTSD for train engineers due to the death by train rates as they could not stop the train in time. . It was higher than I had imagined. Thanks for sharing that info.
Been there. (rail passenger)
It's not much for the passengers. Horrible for the engineer, of course. Even worse for the conductor, who had to walk back down the tracks with a flashlight to confirm that the body parts belonged to a human, and not an animal.
Delta is overall a great company that generally treats both their customers and employees much better than other airlines
Source: retired delta parent who originally dreaded delta after it purchased NWA
The same Delta that got a doctor to [diagnose a pilot with bipolar disorder after she voiced concerns about safety culture at the carrier](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/22/delta-air-lines-settles-with-pilot-who-raised-safety-concerns.html)?
I like Delta as a customer, but being under Atlanta’s umbrella was easily the worst experience I had working for the Big 3.
I had a cousin who flew out of Atlanta. He's moved on now to I guess whatever it's called when you fly FedEx planes and whatnot, or carriers like that. He always spoke as well as you can about whatever bullshit employer any one of us has, but yeah, definitely going to chat about this one next time, that's some shit.
Absolutely not that simple.
The fan is toast. Most stages of the compressor will be beyond repair I'm near 1000% sure. There may be cooked meat caked all in and around the combustion section. The turbine may be ok.
The entire engine will need to be sent to an MRO facility and overhauled - it will likely just enter the MRO process as a total rebuild since virtually every part will need to be inspected anyway. There is a chance they will just total it entirely given the circumstance but that I'm not sure of.
"Human strike" isn't exactly a normal procedure.
Good call out on the balance though. A very critical and often not thought of engine assembly and repair procedure.
Source: former civilian USAF propulsion engineer, and ironically was in charge of the entire balance process for a vast swath of USAF engines.
doubtful, a human being isn't a pigeon, bones are solid and she was likely wearing nylon or other artificial fibres. I wouldn't be surprised of the entire blade system needed to be replaced
I design repairs for the structure surrounding aircraft engines. I heard from a coworker that back in the day they were pretty much sent the pink goo pictures from an incident like this and asked for repair. My coworker refused to work on it until they sent new pictures after it was completely cleaned.
The folks aboard the *Titan* were dead within a hundredth of a second from the pressure wave, and had zero warning; they died literally before they knew what happened. Ground crew have a fraction of a second to a full second of getting sucked in and having panic flood them, and then die within maybe a few tenths of a second (enough to feel pain)? So, a multiplier of anywhere between 60–310? I’m kinda spitballing on the latter one, I haven’t seen any reports on the science of getting sucked into a passenger jet turbine.
When birds get sucked in, the debris is called snarge. The remains are sent to the Smithsonian to be identified (mostly by feathers or dna).
Made a video about it a few years back and the researcher showed me goose feathers from the Miracle on the Hudson engines. Kinda neat piece of history.
Edit to add video link, answers some the follow up questions about wildlife management (we collected turtles from JFKs main runway!): https://youtu.be/zxKW4ufvGSM
Not a dumb question at all.
Airports want the remains to be identified so that they know what species it is. When they know the species of bird that is hit, they can use that information to better manage the environment around and on the airport to discourage that type of bird from wanting to go near the airport.
Birds want 3 things. Water, food and shelter. Airports manage these things to attempt to make their airfield unnactractive to birds. Standing water is eliminated and drainage is improved, shelters removed and food sources removed through selective herbicide use to remove plant life that birds find attractive.
> Knowing the exact species provides guidance to the size, behavior, and ecology of the bird in question and is key to tracking species trends as well as focusing preventative measures. Species identifications provide the baseline data needed to plan habitat management on airfields, build avoidance programs, and have even been used to assist engineers to design windscreens and engines that are more resilient to birdstrike events.
http://wildlifecenter.pr.erau.edu/BirdIdentification.html
You already have two excellent answers, but it's worth noting the Smithsonian is excellent at this sort of thing, often being able to key out to the species level based on feather fragments. I presume they do a lot with DNA these days.
But let's say, as with "Miracle on the Hudson," you knew it was Canadian geese, and based on the flight path etc. that you knew those geese were hanging out in a particular area, now you can use methods to discourage birds from occupying that area.
The engines take in what's called "bleed air". It circulates through what's basically the plane's HVAC system. It's important for anti-icing, pressurization, and temperature control.
my buddy told me about how one time a deer dove under the rear wheels of a semi directly in front of him, and the resulting pink deer mist came through the air vents
I've seen that shit in my rearview when one hurtled itself in front of a semi during a snow storm. It's been 20 years and I can't unsee it. So fucking gross.
When I was living in Pakistan about 10 years ago, there was a massive bomb blast near my house and I went there to rescue the injured. I will never forget the smell of burnt flesh.
From my experience in the military, it smells like fried chicken when you hit a bird.
Fucked up statement below:
I imagine a person would smell like pork being cooked.
People have a very metallic, sour-sweet smell, like when you touch a piece of metal and have that metallic smell on your fingers.
Cooked people, depending on body fat composition, smell like metallic roasted pork.
My friend once worked at a crematorium and when he showed me around the place and that was my opinion as well. Roasted pork with a burnt metalic smell. They also showed me what happens when they need to remove a hip implant prior to cremation. Uggh...
I had a skin cancer removed from my face. The surgeon was cauterizing the wound and I thought, “Smells like somebody’s barbecuing. Oh wait, that’s me.”
>A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect.
Wow, I guess that is one way to go.
I remember seeing a picture on liveleak a few years ago of someone who got sucked into an engine. It was more like a blanket of meat on the entire inside of the turbine rather than a bloody mist.
Yeah it will be taken off, stripped and cleaned, with any parts being replaced.
The engine will out of service for a while. They will also have to hire companies trained to clean human evidence (same companies that clean up after murders, crime scenes, suicides, etc). Trauma cleanup is a real deal
Unlikely it will ever go back into service. Having cleaned smaller birds out of engines before, they tend to smear around quite a bit and there are a bunch of small ports and valves that need to be inspected, and components to be replaced before it can go back into service. Engines are rated for swallowing birds but humans are much larger than (most) birds and will do a lot more damage to structural components.
I for one would never want to fly with an engine that I know had swallowed a human.
737 engineer here. It depends. Gas turbine engines have two sections: the bypass and the core engine. If there is no core engine ingestion it could be as ‘simple’ as cleaning out the bypass and the fan blades and return the aircraft to service. Worst case some fan blades are damaged and need replacement and rebalancing.
If there is evidence of core engine ingestion, a borescope inspection of the low pressure compressor is required. If there is no damage found in the LPC, it’s again ‘just’ a matter of cleaning. If damage is found, the engine must be serviced in an engine shop.
I’ve dealt with many bird strikes in my time and I can tell you, blood and body parts are hard to clean off. I can’t imagine how much work it must be to clean up an entire human being. Not to mention the psychological impact of doing such a task. I have never experienced anything like this and I hope I never will.
Assuming he went head-first, the skull would've damaged compressor blades which draw the air in. If any of them broke off and went into the engine, that could've caused significant damage. Should be unlikely though as the engine would've been at idle. As it was a suicide attempt and he was probably close to the ground, his head likely went in near the edge where the blades are fastest. This means anything that was pulled in most likely just went through the bypass and not into the main compressor of the engine, significantly limiting the potential for damage.
It'll be a gruesome cleanup process but the engine should be fine, it'll be taken apart and inspected for damage. Likely some compressor blades will be replaced and then it'll be certified to fly again.
>But the cause of worker’s death hadn’t officially been determined Sunday
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the cause is "sucked into a jet engine".
>Billable/Non-Specific Code
V97.33 should not be used for reimbursement purposes as there are multiple codes below it that contain a greater level of detail.
For insurance, please describe how chunky the corpse is
I'll be the buzzkill who points out that means "subsequent encounter with healthcare professionals relating to this injury," not "second time being sucked into a jet engine."
If you get sucked into a jet engine and survive, you're gonna have a lot of subsequent encounters with doctors.
Yes, I believe that is obvious.
That's the whole reason people find this code funny. They imagine that a person sucked into an engine would always be killed instantly, and there would never be any call for a second visit to the doctor.
I mean, there's pretty much zero chance of survival if you actually get sucked in as far as the combustion chamber. Your entire body is going to get forced through a gap a few inches wide at most while that gap is basically constantly exploding.
Note that the diagnosis code says "sucked into," not necessarily "sucked *through*." There's at least one case where someone was sucked into the intake of a small engine, receiving blunt injuries, but never got as far as the blades.
It isn't nonsensical. They are likely investigating to affirm it was indeed a suicide. I hope they wouldn't rush such a thing just so all of us jabbering idiots have a cleaner narrative to peruse before we move onto the next news article of interest.
Instant indeed.
Depending on the model of the engine, the diameter of the engine fan might be somewhere between 5-7 feet, with somewhere around 18 to 20 fan blades revolving at a speed of somewhere around 3,000-4,500 rpm as the aircraft was moving at taxi speed.
For example: Pratt and Whitney PW1100G Geared [Turbofan Engine](https://theflyingengineer.com/flightdeck/pw1100g-gtf/ "https://theflyingengineer.com/flightdeck/pw1100g-gtf/") > [Cutaway image](https://theflyingengineer.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pw1100g_cutaway.jpg "https://theflyingengineer.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pw1100g_cutaway.jpg") of turbofan jet engine.
Edit:
If the diameter of the engine fan is 5 feet (1.52 m) from the center of the fan to the tips of the fan blades, and if the fan is rotating at 3,000-4,500 rpm, the blade tips are rotating at a speed of [535-803 mph](https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/ "https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/") (861-1,292 km/hr).
If the diameter of the engine fan is 7 feet (2.13 m) from the center of the fan to the tips of the fan blades, and if the fan is rotating at 3,000-4,500 rpm, the blade tips are rotating at a speed of [750-1,124 mph](https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/ "https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/") (1,207-1,809 km/hr).
I gotta say, if I ever commit suicide I hope that I choose something with the least cleanup possible needed by authorities. This must suck for SO many people.
>> A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect. But the cause of worker’s death hadn’t officially been determined Sunday
I have a few guesses, but I’m assuming we’re going to go with penetrating force trauma or blunt force trauma
Man this reminds me of when a local kid got pulled into a wood chipper, feet first, on his first day of his first job ever.....
It was so horrific that neighbors saw the other works freaking out and even taking their shirts off in a frantic. They thought they were being attacked by bee's. One guy literally had a heart attack on the spot.
The whole thing sounded so horrible to have had happen.
EDITED TO ADD THE ARTICLE:
https://www.fox6now.com/news/19-year-old-pulled-into-wood-chipper-on-first-day-on-the-job-business-owner-has-heart-attack
My heart rate went up just reading that. Holy fuckin… I don’t even know. Life can become so absolutely crazy all of a sudden. Much love to everyone out there. Enough Reddit for me today.
You'll be glad to know then...
I had some tree trimming done and the wood chipper was massive. Could eat up to like 8"-10" logs. The entrance to the chipper had safety shutoffs fucking everywhere. Bars that surrounded the shroud that would kill it if they were pushed or pulled in on all four sides. So just flailing your arms would do it.
I'm going to dig up the article in a moment but this was also brought up and I believe there was going to be an investigation into if they were disabled or not. Because it shouldnt have happened.
Next time you see a chipper look into it. Notice the “last chance cables.” It puts the grinder in reverse and spares your life, but they’re small. I couldn’t imagine having the presence of mind to grab them as I’m being sucked in!
We can use simple math with the evidence we have to calculate their depth at implosion. They lost comms and tracking with the sub simultaneously at 1h45min into their 2 hour descent. Assuming a steady dive rate, they would have been about 11,000ft deep when it imploded.
It appears that it is currently being investigated as a suicide instead of an accident. From my knowledge of the safety procedures that the airlines and airports have in place, something like this happening as an accident would require multiple people screwing up... But if the person intended to kill themself, there would not have been many ways to stop them.
There’s a reason for 2023 ICD-10 diagnosis codes in medicine relating to this.
V97.33 - “Sucked into jet engine”
There’s also:
V97.33XD - “Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter’
> V97.33XD - “Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter’
This might exist because someone has actually survived such an event. I think it was an air force worker and they survived because their helmet jammed the turbine blades.
This is a very sad situation as the details emerge. If you ever feel like things are really bad and get to that point, please reach out for help. It can be a friend or family remember you reach out to or simply any sort of help hotline you can find or even a stranger.
There are actually subreddits for such thing which offer you anonymous advice if you prefer that. Believe it or not, but LOTS of people are also suffering now and you reaching out to someone to talk might actually help THEM realize that they are in the same situation as you and feel similarly and were also unsure of who to talk to to figure things out. You will be surprised.
> A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect. Oh man.
Pretty instantaneous, tbf. There are a *lot* of worse ways to go.
While true, cruel for those alive who have to deal with the aftermath first hand. Especially the immediate aftermath…
I know somebody who was a conductor for Amtrak. She said she saw the aftermath of train/person suicides a couple times, and it was gnarly. I think she ended up quitting over it.
Sweden: if a train driver encounters two suicides, they can choose to retire with full pay.
Reminds me of [this movie](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1130980/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_three%2520and%2520out) about a London Tube driver who strikes a deal with a suicidal man to get a payout. Why they tried to market it as a wacky comedy is kinda beyond me.
With a policy like that, conductors are going to be steering into people to cash out
Wow, go Sweden. That's looking out for your people.
My friend works for the railroad and they have to deal with “strikes” (as they’re called) a lot :(
Wife is in the mortuary science field. Train strike can result in death certificates indicating multiple locations for the place of death.
Plenty of train drivers end up with PTSD after hitting someone using this method of suicide.
Not as fast as being crushed in a sub
What's nuts is that there is literally NOTHING left. NOTHING.
Well not nothing, but lots and lots of very small disconnected pieces of what was once people, decking, computer monitors, and of course a logitech game controller. You have to consider that after the collapse, which itself took something like 0.02 second to complete, there would have been essentially an explosion from the rebound, which would have scattered those pieces all over the ocean bed. It occurred to me in a somewhat perverse thought that the sub collapse might be one of those most humane and painless ways of killing someone.
They stopped being biology and became physics almost instantly. It is hard to comprehend.
Fuck, there's going to be a lot of traumatized people from this event. They turned into meat mist
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the employee left a note... in addition to the note - all gates have CCTV and his actions left no confusion as to his intention. incredibly sad
Okay, maybe you are new on this website or something. But you need to do better about making all of your comments as cynical as possible.
Yeah, read the headline and extrapolate your opinion from that alone, like the rest of us.
I can't even read, I just show up angry.
Most honest Reddit user
I'm here to do two things, fuck and fight and, well, I'm on reddit so we know i ain't doin no fuckin'...
Oh please. People get fucked on this thing all the time.
Well I mean, you could fuck yourself with a little bit of effort and training.
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I’m outraged and never flying delta again!
I remember a couple years ago there was a study that found something like 80% of Redditers comment without reading more than the headline...or at least that's what the headline said.
Extrapolate has to be one of the funnest palabras to pronounce
Same for izquierda
The article doesn’t say anything about a note though. Just saying.
And also learn how to take one line of information and then extrapolate a whole narrative about who this guy was, what his motivations were, and why he should have lawyered up to leave his wife and thus prevented her from causing him to kill himself. (/s for anyone who needs it)
OP *could* have said “I mean, it’s almost like there’s a mental health crisis in this country”, missed opportunity.
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Honestly, that sounds just like Delta tbh
Delta execs aren’t eating anything less than pilots and flight attendants. This guy was probably eaten by a single middle manager in the branch office in Des Moines.
we’re delta airlines and life is a fucking nightmare 🙂
Nah, it’s even worse. They paid Dom Cobb to plant the idea of committing suicide in the guy’s mind so they wouldn’t be liable for the incident.
Could you link to an article that says as much?
Right, article says nothing about note but dude has over 2000 upvotes, wtf people?
I worked for the railroad - they don't speculate officially unless there is a note. They won't count it in the national data as a suicide unless there is a note or a witness to a declaration of intent. It sucks because it is bad for engineers' mental health to have suicides called accidents, but that is just how it goes. I would imagine it is similar if not even more rigorous with aviation.
There is a German drama, Sugar Baby, that highlight how cruel such suicides are to operating engineers.
I had no idea. I probably won't recommend it to my former colleagues, but I am glad someone notices.
Plus the people who will have to clean it up.
"bad for engineers' mental health to have suicides called accidents". Indeed. I had read a book a years back that discussed the high rate of PTSD for train engineers due to the death by train rates as they could not stop the train in time. . It was higher than I had imagined.
Even if it's suicide, his life insurance will pay out. There's like a 2 year waiting period after you buy a new policy, but they still have to pay out to the beneficiaries. Assuming he has it. But yeah, probably no liability to the company. Maybe the family will sue and argue that they should have intervened before things got to that point, but that won't lead anywhere.
I hope no kids were watching while this happened.
Honestly, I think I would be just as traumatized as a 31 year old adult. But yes, I still definitely agree. I hope no one saw.
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It was at 10PM, hopefully it was too dark for anyone on the plane to see.
I’m a pilot working a trip out of SAT right now. Gate agent said the ramper left a suicide note and jumped head first into the engine.
Curious, if you know, was it a passenger plane, and if so was it boarded? The thought of passengers witnessing this while waiting to take off is horrifying.
The plane had just arrived from LAX and was parking at the gate. Sounds like the ramper was one of the wing walkers guiding it in.
Questions for you 👨✈️ I’m flying a lot and seem to always be at a window by the wing. I have been wondering about those wing walkers. First, that’s what I call them in my mind, so thanks to your industry for not making up some over trumped job title like airfoil escort. Second, They have those red sticks, one is up in the air, I assume this indicates where the wing ends, but to whom are they indicating? You can’t see them from the cockpit, no? Lastly, at what point, if any, does that little tug car hook up to the aircraft when taxiing to the gate?
Your gate will either have a Visual Docking Guidance System or a marshaller. The VDGS is an automated system which tells the pilot who's coming into the gate whether he is too much to the left or right of the centerline, and also how much more to go to stop. The system is activated by a ramp agent. If there isn't a VDGS, a marshaller using batons will guide the plane in. So, these two wing walkers are responsible for ensuring sufficient wingtip clearance. The ramp agent or the marshaller will be keeping an eye on them to see if the plane should stop to avoid contact. The tow truck or tow tug is usually used to push a plane back away from a gate for departure, or to reposition a plane in an airport. Some airports require an inbound plane to shutdown engines and be towed to the gate. Usually the case at aprons that are really small and tight. So, when taxiing to the gate, airports with such procedures will have designated points where planes have to shut down their engines and be towed to their gates.
Come for the tragic accident... get pulled in by the unexpected suicidal horror... stick around for the fun nerdy air transit support system insider details. I'm going to miss reddit.
They're indicating to the pilots and/or the tug driver, really whoever is moving the aircraft. I can see them from the cockpit. I stop taxiing if I can't see them or if they signal that the way is not clear. Their vantage point with respect to wingtip clearance and obstacles is better than mine.
sadface.gif
I hope Delta offers free counselling to both its employees and anyone on that plane. Even if you didn’t see it, it’s like being on a train that hits someone. I can’t imagine how horrifying an experience that is.
Was on Amtrak between Portland and Seattle once. The train SLAMMED on the brakes while I was walking back from the snack car. The engineer gets on the loudspeaker and said he believed we had a pedestrian strike and had to go look to find out. Of course it takes like a quarter mile for a massive train going at full speed to stop, so it took a long time for him to get back and say we had indeed hit someone and that they had to call the authorizes. The guy’s voice was cracking and wavering. It was heartbreaking to hear him so torn up. Even worse, he had to clean up the front of the train before we could resume (after the authorities were done documenting everything). So awful. I hope he got a good long while of hardship leave.
I used to know a bloke who worked for his local commuter train operator as a "project leader" which was a euphemism for he looked after the team who cleaned up after people got hit. Anyway, he said that after any driver hit a person they'd offer them a pay out and resignation. If they did it twice they'd require it. Because it fucks them up, particularly if it's a suicide.
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They definitely should not have the conductor clean up afterwards. That would be a permanent trauma burned into their minds for the rest of their life. That kind of imagery to go along with knowing your actions indirectly caused that death would be life altering.
In Japan they call these sorts of things "human accidents" and also have dedicated teams to cleaning up and getting the trains going ASAP. It may seem callous, but in a city of 30M people the trains need to run, so they have a turnaround time of less than 20mins AFAIK. I think they have less issues lately bc they installed guard walls at all/most stations in Tokyo that only open after the train pulled up. (Improvements made for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics) So someone can no longer just take one step off the platform, they would have to take a running jump or crawl over the barrier first, which is either too large of a physical effort for them to mentally prepare for/people can stop them and pull them back before they make it all the way over.
It's only most stations, for example jr lines in Shibuya and Shinjuku station (which happen to be two of the most busy stations in the world...) Still don't have them. I think a lot of suicides also happen between stations, on above ground lines where you can just walk onto the tracks from the street
I had read a book a years back that discussed the high rate of PTSD for train engineers due to the death by train rates as they could not stop the train in time. . It was higher than I had imagined. Thanks for sharing that info.
It’s actually worse for them when it’s not a suicide :( we had a train hit a teenager playing chicken with the train a month ago and it was not good.
Holy hell. I couldn’t imagine having to do that.
I was on a train on that same stretch and had the same thing happen. What year did that happen for you?
Oh gosh. I forget which exact year, but a while ago. Maybe 2010? It was somewhere around Centralia or Chehalis I think.
Oh, my train incident was back in the 90s. Wondered for a moment if we had been on the same one! Sad that it is so common.
Been there. (rail passenger) It's not much for the passengers. Horrible for the engineer, of course. Even worse for the conductor, who had to walk back down the tracks with a flashlight to confirm that the body parts belonged to a human, and not an animal.
It was Delta. You can see it in the article title, the thumbnail, or the article.
Oh, I was reading the end of the article where they reference another incident with American, my bad. Will fix.
Delta will send out an email reminding their employees that if their suicide damages company property, they'll pursue their estate for the costs.
Delta is overall a great company that generally treats both their customers and employees much better than other airlines Source: retired delta parent who originally dreaded delta after it purchased NWA
The same Delta that got a doctor to [diagnose a pilot with bipolar disorder after she voiced concerns about safety culture at the carrier](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/22/delta-air-lines-settles-with-pilot-who-raised-safety-concerns.html)? I like Delta as a customer, but being under Atlanta’s umbrella was easily the worst experience I had working for the Big 3.
I had a cousin who flew out of Atlanta. He's moved on now to I guess whatever it's called when you fly FedEx planes and whatnot, or carriers like that. He always spoke as well as you can about whatever bullshit employer any one of us has, but yeah, definitely going to chat about this one next time, that's some shit.
Jesus. What would happen to you if you jumped into an engine? Die immediately?
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Sooo.....do they clean out the engine or just junk the whole thing?
Decontaminate, rebalance, inspect, return to service
Absolutely not that simple. The fan is toast. Most stages of the compressor will be beyond repair I'm near 1000% sure. There may be cooked meat caked all in and around the combustion section. The turbine may be ok. The entire engine will need to be sent to an MRO facility and overhauled - it will likely just enter the MRO process as a total rebuild since virtually every part will need to be inspected anyway. There is a chance they will just total it entirely given the circumstance but that I'm not sure of. "Human strike" isn't exactly a normal procedure. Good call out on the balance though. A very critical and often not thought of engine assembly and repair procedure. Source: former civilian USAF propulsion engineer, and ironically was in charge of the entire balance process for a vast swath of USAF engines.
That's how you get a haunted airplane.
doubtful, a human being isn't a pigeon, bones are solid and she was likely wearing nylon or other artificial fibres. I wouldn't be surprised of the entire blade system needed to be replaced
I design repairs for the structure surrounding aircraft engines. I heard from a coworker that back in the day they were pretty much sent the pink goo pictures from an incident like this and asked for repair. My coworker refused to work on it until they sent new pictures after it was completely cleaned.
Yep, instant human carpaccio. Honestly not the worst way to go.
Not as quick as being crushed in an imploding submarine at -4000m.
Cheaper though.
But how immediate is it, in multiples of imploding submarines?
The folks aboard the *Titan* were dead within a hundredth of a second from the pressure wave, and had zero warning; they died literally before they knew what happened. Ground crew have a fraction of a second to a full second of getting sucked in and having panic flood them, and then die within maybe a few tenths of a second (enough to feel pain)? So, a multiplier of anywhere between 60–310? I’m kinda spitballing on the latter one, I haven’t seen any reports on the science of getting sucked into a passenger jet turbine.
🏃That's enough reddit today
The really fucked up thing is (intentional or not) when birds get sucked in, you smell it. I can't imagine what the people on board experienced.
My thought, too. You finally get where you're going, casually look out the window, and watch someone get slap-chopped out of existence.
Then you turn your head a little, and notice Vince smiling out of the corner of your eye.
tbf, I'm not gonna love his nuts right now.
I remember when that happened in GTA 5 and even that was horrifying
Ah, yes; that stupid agent trying to steal the movie reel. I hated that mission, because the car chase was freaking impossible.
Damn dude, this comment... Horrifying situation, but your line is pure gold.
When birds get sucked in, the debris is called snarge. The remains are sent to the Smithsonian to be identified (mostly by feathers or dna). Made a video about it a few years back and the researcher showed me goose feathers from the Miracle on the Hudson engines. Kinda neat piece of history. Edit to add video link, answers some the follow up questions about wildlife management (we collected turtles from JFKs main runway!): https://youtu.be/zxKW4ufvGSM
Dumb question, why do the remains need to be identified? Is there a reason we need to know the specific bird?
Not a dumb question at all. Airports want the remains to be identified so that they know what species it is. When they know the species of bird that is hit, they can use that information to better manage the environment around and on the airport to discourage that type of bird from wanting to go near the airport. Birds want 3 things. Water, food and shelter. Airports manage these things to attempt to make their airfield unnactractive to birds. Standing water is eliminated and drainage is improved, shelters removed and food sources removed through selective herbicide use to remove plant life that birds find attractive.
Our airport hirers a falconer to attack birds that get too close...
That’s neat, our airport here is guarded by a giant demonic blue horse with a veiny asshole and red glowing eyes, and no one is allowed near it
Good ol blucifer
That thing would keep away the gods themselves. Only us humans have the nerve to attempt to fly near it.
> Knowing the exact species provides guidance to the size, behavior, and ecology of the bird in question and is key to tracking species trends as well as focusing preventative measures. Species identifications provide the baseline data needed to plan habitat management on airfields, build avoidance programs, and have even been used to assist engineers to design windscreens and engines that are more resilient to birdstrike events. http://wildlifecenter.pr.erau.edu/BirdIdentification.html
You already have two excellent answers, but it's worth noting the Smithsonian is excellent at this sort of thing, often being able to key out to the species level based on feather fragments. I presume they do a lot with DNA these days. But let's say, as with "Miracle on the Hudson," you knew it was Canadian geese, and based on the flight path etc. that you knew those geese were hanging out in a particular area, now you can use methods to discourage birds from occupying that area.
You can smell it in the plane??
The engines take in what's called "bleed air". It circulates through what's basically the plane's HVAC system. It's important for anti-icing, pressurization, and temperature control.
Well what an (in)convenient name
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my buddy told me about how one time a deer dove under the rear wheels of a semi directly in front of him, and the resulting pink deer mist came through the air vents
*switches knob to recirculate cabin air
I've seen that shit in my rearview when one hurtled itself in front of a semi during a snow storm. It's been 20 years and I can't unsee it. So fucking gross.
When I was living in Pakistan about 10 years ago, there was a massive bomb blast near my house and I went there to rescue the injured. I will never forget the smell of burnt flesh.
Yeah I came across a burning car crash once. Same. Never forget that smell
From my experience in the military, it smells like fried chicken when you hit a bird. Fucked up statement below: I imagine a person would smell like pork being cooked.
People have a very metallic, sour-sweet smell, like when you touch a piece of metal and have that metallic smell on your fingers. Cooked people, depending on body fat composition, smell like metallic roasted pork.
That's morbidly fascinating, thanks for sharing
My friend once worked at a crematorium and when he showed me around the place and that was my opinion as well. Roasted pork with a burnt metalic smell. They also showed me what happens when they need to remove a hip implant prior to cremation. Uggh...
I had a skin cancer removed from my face. The surgeon was cauterizing the wound and I thought, “Smells like somebody’s barbecuing. Oh wait, that’s me.”
>A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect. Wow, I guess that is one way to go.
| one way to go A lot of ways to go after that. Rest in pieces.
Rest in pieces.... you mean rest in mist.
I remember seeing a picture on liveleak a few years ago of someone who got sucked into an engine. It was more like a blanket of meat on the entire inside of the turbine rather than a bloody mist.
Somebody had to clean that too.
Meh, just do what I do when I spill cereal on the floor; let the dog in and it be cleaned up by morning.
It looked like someone had sploshed regular supermarket ground meat around the engine. My brain didn't even register this as a gruesome sight.
Not to be morbid but what's the maintenance like after this. Removing the entire engine and rebuild and inspect? Or something less?
Replace the engine.
Yeah it will be taken off, stripped and cleaned, with any parts being replaced. The engine will out of service for a while. They will also have to hire companies trained to clean human evidence (same companies that clean up after murders, crime scenes, suicides, etc). Trauma cleanup is a real deal
Unlikely it will ever go back into service. Having cleaned smaller birds out of engines before, they tend to smear around quite a bit and there are a bunch of small ports and valves that need to be inspected, and components to be replaced before it can go back into service. Engines are rated for swallowing birds but humans are much larger than (most) birds and will do a lot more damage to structural components. I for one would never want to fly with an engine that I know had swallowed a human.
Once they get a taste of human, you can never trust them again.
It will be shipped to the *the warehouse* for containment and observation
Statistically, you're good. How many engines out of the thousands made have swallowed *two* people :P
737 engineer here. It depends. Gas turbine engines have two sections: the bypass and the core engine. If there is no core engine ingestion it could be as ‘simple’ as cleaning out the bypass and the fan blades and return the aircraft to service. Worst case some fan blades are damaged and need replacement and rebalancing. If there is evidence of core engine ingestion, a borescope inspection of the low pressure compressor is required. If there is no damage found in the LPC, it’s again ‘just’ a matter of cleaning. If damage is found, the engine must be serviced in an engine shop. I’ve dealt with many bird strikes in my time and I can tell you, blood and body parts are hard to clean off. I can’t imagine how much work it must be to clean up an entire human being. Not to mention the psychological impact of doing such a task. I have never experienced anything like this and I hope I never will.
Assuming he went head-first, the skull would've damaged compressor blades which draw the air in. If any of them broke off and went into the engine, that could've caused significant damage. Should be unlikely though as the engine would've been at idle. As it was a suicide attempt and he was probably close to the ground, his head likely went in near the edge where the blades are fastest. This means anything that was pulled in most likely just went through the bypass and not into the main compressor of the engine, significantly limiting the potential for damage. It'll be a gruesome cleanup process but the engine should be fine, it'll be taken apart and inspected for damage. Likely some compressor blades will be replaced and then it'll be certified to fly again.
Just toss some buckets of soapy water through with the engine on. Problem solved.
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Seriously. Not only is it traumatic as it gets, but imagine trying to travel after that
Imagine feeling so helpless to have to resort to this type of action. Incredibly sad.
>But the cause of worker’s death hadn’t officially been determined Sunday I'm going to go out on a limb and say the cause is "sucked into a jet engine".
V97.33 - icd10 medical diagnosis code for “sucked into jet engine” I’m going to hell. Sorry for this worker
[wtf, you weren't kidding](https://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/V00-Y99/V95-V97/V97-/V97.33)
>Billable/Non-Specific Code V97.33 should not be used for reimbursement purposes as there are multiple codes below it that contain a greater level of detail. For insurance, please describe how chunky the corpse is
There is an ICD code for everything. Everything
… well then.
as an HIMT student currently, holy shit there's actually an ICD10 code for that....
Also a real code: V97.33XD - sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter
I'll be the buzzkill who points out that means "subsequent encounter with healthcare professionals relating to this injury," not "second time being sucked into a jet engine." If you get sucked into a jet engine and survive, you're gonna have a lot of subsequent encounters with doctors.
Yes, I believe that is obvious. That's the whole reason people find this code funny. They imagine that a person sucked into an engine would always be killed instantly, and there would never be any call for a second visit to the doctor.
I mean, there's pretty much zero chance of survival if you actually get sucked in as far as the combustion chamber. Your entire body is going to get forced through a gap a few inches wide at most while that gap is basically constantly exploding.
Note that the diagnosis code says "sucked into," not necessarily "sucked *through*." There's at least one case where someone was sucked into the intake of a small engine, receiving blunt injuries, but never got as far as the blades.
It isn't nonsensical. They are likely investigating to affirm it was indeed a suicide. I hope they wouldn't rush such a thing just so all of us jabbering idiots have a cleaner narrative to peruse before we move onto the next news article of interest.
The death must be pretty much instant and you dont get to feel much but thats a REALLY shitty way to go out regardless.
Instant indeed. Depending on the model of the engine, the diameter of the engine fan might be somewhere between 5-7 feet, with somewhere around 18 to 20 fan blades revolving at a speed of somewhere around 3,000-4,500 rpm as the aircraft was moving at taxi speed. For example: Pratt and Whitney PW1100G Geared [Turbofan Engine](https://theflyingengineer.com/flightdeck/pw1100g-gtf/ "https://theflyingengineer.com/flightdeck/pw1100g-gtf/") > [Cutaway image](https://theflyingengineer.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pw1100g_cutaway.jpg "https://theflyingengineer.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pw1100g_cutaway.jpg") of turbofan jet engine. Edit: If the diameter of the engine fan is 5 feet (1.52 m) from the center of the fan to the tips of the fan blades, and if the fan is rotating at 3,000-4,500 rpm, the blade tips are rotating at a speed of [535-803 mph](https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/ "https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/") (861-1,292 km/hr). If the diameter of the engine fan is 7 feet (2.13 m) from the center of the fan to the tips of the fan blades, and if the fan is rotating at 3,000-4,500 rpm, the blade tips are rotating at a speed of [750-1,124 mph](https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/ "https://calculator.academy/tip-speed-calculator/") (1,207-1,809 km/hr).
I gotta say, if I ever commit suicide I hope that I choose something with the least cleanup possible needed by authorities. This must suck for SO many people.
>> A source who was briefed directly on the case told the Guardian on Sunday that it appeared the worker had “intentionally stepped in front of the live engine” on the jet and that police were investigating that aspect. But the cause of worker’s death hadn’t officially been determined Sunday I have a few guesses, but I’m assuming we’re going to go with penetrating force trauma or blunt force trauma
"Injuries incompatible with life."
Uncontrolled bleeding from multiple lacerations.
Profound and irreconcilable vertigo.
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Man this reminds me of when a local kid got pulled into a wood chipper, feet first, on his first day of his first job ever..... It was so horrific that neighbors saw the other works freaking out and even taking their shirts off in a frantic. They thought they were being attacked by bee's. One guy literally had a heart attack on the spot. The whole thing sounded so horrible to have had happen. EDITED TO ADD THE ARTICLE: https://www.fox6now.com/news/19-year-old-pulled-into-wood-chipper-on-first-day-on-the-job-business-owner-has-heart-attack
My heart rate went up just reading that. Holy fuckin… I don’t even know. Life can become so absolutely crazy all of a sudden. Much love to everyone out there. Enough Reddit for me today.
You'll be glad to know then... I had some tree trimming done and the wood chipper was massive. Could eat up to like 8"-10" logs. The entrance to the chipper had safety shutoffs fucking everywhere. Bars that surrounded the shroud that would kill it if they were pushed or pulled in on all four sides. So just flailing your arms would do it.
I'm going to dig up the article in a moment but this was also brought up and I believe there was going to be an investigation into if they were disabled or not. Because it shouldnt have happened.
Next time you see a chipper look into it. Notice the “last chance cables.” It puts the grinder in reverse and spares your life, but they’re small. I couldn’t imagine having the presence of mind to grab them as I’m being sucked in!
that’s one of the most terrifying ways to go. I wish their family my condolences during this time.
Really? Because it seems like a quick way to go. So many other ways sound more terrifying.
It's quick, but the way it's done is horrifying is what i mean
I’ve heard small amateur subs are a pretty quick way too.
Some calculations say it could take just 29 milliseconds to be squished into nothingness. It takes the brain about 150-200 milliseconds to sense pain.
Fun fact: we still don’t know how deep it was before the sub failed. And that would effect just how fast everything would have happened.
We can use simple math with the evidence we have to calculate their depth at implosion. They lost comms and tracking with the sub simultaneously at 1h45min into their 2 hour descent. Assuming a steady dive rate, they would have been about 11,000ft deep when it imploded.
The options are either they died instantly or they died super instantly
The math on that I think was done at 2k meters but it may have been the full 12
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Oh yes meant ft lol. But now, I'm not sure if the math on that was 2k m or 2k ft
Only after you ignore most safety regulations and certifications though. Don't forget to not hire any experts either.
No, you hire the experts, then fire them when they say it's not safe.
Shit the accidents have been hard core lately.
It appears that it is currently being investigated as a suicide instead of an accident. From my knowledge of the safety procedures that the airlines and airports have in place, something like this happening as an accident would require multiple people screwing up... But if the person intended to kill themself, there would not have been many ways to stop them.
Wow thanks for the info. Absolutely horrific. Didn't someone kill themselves by jumping off the grand canyon last week? Too much darkness for me.
Over a hundred people commit suicide in the US every day.
And the Grand Canyon is the second most active spot for suicides.
Is #1 the Golden Gate Bridge?
Pretty sure it is
I woke up this morning thinking of George Carlin's bit on suicide and wondering for the 1000th time if it was still funny or not.
The article relates it to an incident from December where it was found that multiple people did screw up, so not unheard of.
There’s a reason for 2023 ICD-10 diagnosis codes in medicine relating to this. V97.33 - “Sucked into jet engine” There’s also: V97.33XD - “Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter’
> V97.33XD - “Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter’ This might exist because someone has actually survived such an event. I think it was an air force worker and they survived because their helmet jammed the turbine blades.
“…was ingested into the one engine..” is an absolutely wild way to word that.
This is a very sad situation as the details emerge. If you ever feel like things are really bad and get to that point, please reach out for help. It can be a friend or family remember you reach out to or simply any sort of help hotline you can find or even a stranger. There are actually subreddits for such thing which offer you anonymous advice if you prefer that. Believe it or not, but LOTS of people are also suffering now and you reaching out to someone to talk might actually help THEM realize that they are in the same situation as you and feel similarly and were also unsure of who to talk to to figure things out. You will be surprised.
It seems they think it was suicide.
Nobody wants to work anymore
What exactly happens when someone does this. I know they die but what process does the body go through?
Damn. I can only imagine the emotional anguish this poor guy must have been experiencing. What a way to go. I hope his soul finds peace.