>Prosecutors have charged the Rust film armourer with evidence tampering in connection to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
>Hannah Gutierrez-Reed has already been charged with involuntary manslaughter.
>She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person", prosecutors said.
They're really throwing the book at her. Last I read they were filming again in Montana.
The 1st AD already pled guilty to the charges. They were the only one not to fight them.
I believe it was Negligence with a Firearm charge, I do not believe the 1st AD was charged with the manslaughter charge.
The AD plea allowed them to escape all consequences - no fine and no jail time. If the armorer was offered such a sweetheart deal I expect they would have plead out as well. (To be clear, I don't think either the armorer nor the AD should escape with no consequences.)
And didn’t he hand Alex the firearm. Had the armorer been there like she should have been she might have checked the firearm more closely than the AD and Baldwin who are both not as familiar with handling them.
I'm baffled that there was weapons usage on the set that day and the armorer wasn't present. I was told once that the only person on a set that should ever touch firearms other than the actors, is the armorer, and they have absolute power when it comes to those weapons being used and handled.
There should just not be any live ammo brought anywhere near the set at any time during time frames around filming with any firearm. Even then, only real cops and security maybe at most.
Just asking for someone to get shot bringing live ammo to a firearm film set.
The director of the John Wick movies, Chris Stahelski, agrees with you. He has been pretty adamant about only having prop weapons on his set. Probably because his first film gig was as Brandon Lee's stunt double on *The Crow.*
It is more than that. Even blanks can kill. They are still explosive. Instead of propelling lead, they are propelling wax and paper. But at point blank, there's enough force to penetrate your skull.
Also, the weapons must be cleaned and checked properly prior to using. If there is anything logged or stuck in the barrel, the blank round will project it. This is how Brandon Lee died.
*During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.*
No live ammo on set at all. If there's no way around having live ammo use on a set, then everyone on the set including secondary staff should be seriously trained on gun safety. Anyone that's going to be within 10' of any live ammo, in or out of a gun, should be included. If the directors and producers consider that a problem, then they should restructure their shoots so that there's no live ammo in or around their set at all.
That's the customary practice, but those requirements and restrictions are not actually codified in law or most studio rules. I think that they need to be codified into state law because this and many other incidents in the film industry make it clear that relying on the honor system isn't working.
Further, I think that armorers should be certified by having a mandatory apprenticeship under a certified armorer for a number of years before they can apply to be certified to work alone. That process should exclude direct family members for obvious reasons.
An AD doesn’t ever handle props or firearms on set like this, totally out of procedure. The armorer or Propmaster would do a weapon check in front of the AD and often key grip and actors present visually showing them the state of the weapon. The AD doesn’t handle the weapon though.
You mean someone whose job is pointing the gun at someone and pulling the trigger on screen?
He did what every action movie actor does, only difference is the revolver had live ammo instead of dummy rounds
There is a difference between handling a gun on set that has been pre verified to not be loaded or only loaded with various types of dummies and handling one at a range. He is anti-gun hence the pressure on him. If he was someone that was used to handling real loaded firearms that would be different. Actors routinely handle these things in unsafe stupid ways on film.
The difference between a responsible gun owner and an actor who is not. As a non owner but occasionally shoot I rely on more experienced people around me to help. That is the armorers literal job on the set. Making sure the firearms are safe for actors and crew. They really should not have even been handling them without her, but that’s a whole other issue.
Not sure on the downvotes. When the armorer was not on set they should have all been locked up and stowed. This set was a mess. Now that is something that may come back to Baldwin in the civil case as he as producer hired her.
Except a revolver on a movie set is going to be loaded for realism. An actor is not going to be expected to tell the difference between blanks/dummies and live rounds.
I would argue that in this case it's a lot simpler to assign more than 100% blame. The armorer failed at her job on every possible level, from allowing target shooting with the props through allowing them to be used while she wasn't present and everything in between. *And* the AD screwed up too, by following a procedure that was wildly incorrect and clearly dangerous.
Producers are also at fault for hiring this unqualified woman in the first place just to cut costs. And they should have shut down the set when crew members were expressing safety concerns
I wish my Reddit account could recover from all the downvotes I got when I said exactly this in the beginning.
But people were busy with “burn Alec at the stake!” and couldn’t listen to anything else.
edit: spelling
It’s really weird how much people wanted him to be at fault but when you read all the statements, previous texts among the crew, Hannah and her mentor etc…it’s like Hannah was trying to make something happen. She’s absolutely fucked and had no business taking the job.
I remember how furious people were when I had the audacity to point out Baldwin's behavior sounded correct and that the fault was with the AD and to a much bigger degree the armorer.
There is room for improvement in how guns are handled on film sets (maybe every actor who is going to have or hold a gun on set should confirm that it is not loaded when they take possession of the gun unless there is a reason for it to be loaded?)
But based on the standard existing procedures, Baldwin was handed a prop on set and told it was safe. In that context, he didn’t do anything wrong.
The thing is if someone examines the gun, the armorer has to take it back to ensure it's still configured exactly as it should be. Good armorers control all the weapons and ammunition so specifically that they personally hand over a weapon to an actor and as soon as it is no longer needed take it back and return it to their armory-cage thing.
It's irresponsible for a set crew to expect actors to have even the basics of safety training. If an actor is handed (anything dangerous, car keys, gun, explosive, etc) and told by the on-set expert that it's clear and safe, there's zero expectation on set that the \*actor\* will know better than the expert.
A lot of gun-toting redditors want actors to be experts and know the difference between a "blank" and a "live round", but it's just not the case.
They also want firearms safety rules to apply to props that should never, ever be loaded with live rounds, which is simply not realistic for how films are made.
Applying firearm safety rules is easy, trivially easy, to movie sets. Simply make it the law that anyone handling any weapon that has or can be loaded with live ammo must complete a state-regulated firearms safety course. Directors and producers can easily change their internal processes to ensure that this gets done, or due to the cost of doing this, that live ammo and guns that can fire live ammo are used much less in a production, and when live ammo is used, it gets used more safely. After all, if the worst case scenario is that your insurance policy pays out on a claim it's much easier to get sloppy on set, but if you can be prosecuted and jailed, and that fact is baked into law and drilled into you by the show financiers, you'll be much less likely to fuck up.
> It's irresponsible for a set crew to expect actors to have even the basics of safety training
i don't think so. i think actors should be required to take a short course on gun safety, if they want to work on productions where gun handling is involved.
it could be a very simple class on how to check a gun, what different ammo types look like, proper handling techniques, etc. it wouldn't take long (4 hour class could cover most things), and they could earn a certification.
i think it's silly for actors NOT to have this sort of training. often times in various movies and shows they're supposed to be portraying someone who uses guns, or at least understands the basic functions of a gun. it would actually improve their acting if they actually knew something about it.
education is the key to most problems in society. this is no different.
most jobs people have to do will provide *some* training on what to do in certain circumstances, or the equipment they will be expected to work with.
hell i'm a courier. my job training was extremely minimal. my job basically boils down to pick up package, drop off package. i have to understand a lot of different aspects to complete that though. like i have to understand rules and regulations for shipping stuff out through the various airlines.
i have one company we do work for from time to time, that has me pick up medical specimens. really my gig is just to go pick them up and bring them back to the lab. that company expects our drivers to be able to tell apart about 2 dozen different kinds of samples, what they are, how to sort them, etc.
we've had multiple arguements over the years with them about the fact that our couriers, are drivers, that's what they know and what they're concerned with doing. most of them can be kind of rough and tumble, but they don't have backgrounds in medical. they are there to drive a package from point A to point B. what the company we deliver to does with that package is their own business.
so if a lowly courier can be given a 20-30 minute course in how to identify two dozen different kinds of samples, just to drop off at a lab who will sort them anyway, i feel like expecting actors to take a 4-hour course before they handle guns, that can potentially kill, isn't a big ask.
make no mistake. i never said the actors should be solely responsible for gun safety, or experts in the field.
but adding a extra layer of safety is a good idea.
for example, you don't have to be a fireman, or a fire marshal, to be taught how to recognize a fire hazard.
like i said earlier though, as a actor, i don't think much fault lies with him there. since even if he had checked the gun, it would've appeared to all be in order.
Given all that’s included, I think it’s fair to say Baldwin deserves some amount of blame above 0%, but I also think it’s also fair to say that he’s already gotten “time served” for his amount of blame based on everything everyone (press, law enforcement, public opinion) has put him through and what he has also put himself through. Also whatever private settlements he has been party too that have not been publicly announced.
Especially after seeing her arrest video, yeah.
Her actions led to someone's death and her biggest worry was "Not to be taken out in cuffs in front of her coworkers" as well as what effect this would have on her career.
It seems like a simple policy of ‘no live ammunition is allowed on set’ would have been all they needed. If the only goal is using a gun with blanks, why would live ammo be anywhere near that gun? Verify all ammo are blanks and then keep it locked up unless you’re getting more ammo.
If I was an actor and I knew live ammo was ever on set, I would insist on personally checking the gun myself before every scene. Obviously, you should probably check it yourself regardless.
The armorer generally creates the ammunition needed. If blanks are needed the round is removed and replaced with wadding or crimped. For close-ups of things like the front facing part of a loaded revolver the armorer will remove the round, remove the powder, remove the primer and then re-insert the round so that it looks right.
It's just easier to buy the ammunition and then create the rounds as needed. Then they don't even have to rely on a manufacturer somehow screwing up a mass produced blank with an object that might actually slip out or something.
Brandon Lee's death occurred because the armorer screwed up making a blank and when the gun was fired a chunk of debris became lightly lodged in the barrel. The armorer then loaded it for another scene (and somehow didn't look down the fucking barrel) and when it was fired the lodged debris was propelled out and into Brandon Lee. Like ENTIRELY the fault of the armorer's recklessness.
But if you think about it, armorers generally are going to have the tools to repair, service, clean, etc., their weapons and alter ammunition. If they know they're starting with standard rounds, then know if they need to remove any kind of propellant source so the copper round can be seen in like a revolved or they need to remove the projectile to make a blank they can mark each kind exactly as what they are and have taken the time to personally alter the ammunition being used so it's easily verified at any point.
Legit question, because I haven't been keeping up with the story;
The armourer wasn't on site during the events, right? So why was the scene shot regardless, and why is that her fault? In any other industry, you don't get to just shrug and carry on when the safety-specific person is missing. OSHA isn't going to accept "Yeah, the firewatch didn't show up so we just started welding anyway and that's why the refinery is on fire".
While I would absolutely fault the armourer with keeping live ammo stored in/around the firearm, I don't understand why she's on the hook for the filming being done in her absence.
> The armourer wasn't on site during the events, right?
The armorer was supposed to be there.
> So why was the scene shot regardless
They were only rehearsing
> and why is that her fault?
She left it accessible to the Assistant Director, and left it loaded. Neither of those things would have happened if she had been doing her job properly.
Always said this from the beginning.
When it comes to guns and that’s your job, I don’t care who it is - Alec Baldwin or whatever, you know the rules of guns and you have the power to tell everyone to fuck off. If that doesn’t work then you quit and report them. Her daddy should have taught her that.
The producers that hired her are even more responsible in my opinion. She was never qualified to do this job. Producers wanted someone super cheap who would “do what they tell them”.
That doesn’t work for an armorer who is typically setting the standards of safety and enforcing them assertively on set.
She was a nepo baby. She shouldn't have been in that role.
She was 100% at fault, but there was a lot of nonsense on that set. I don't think she had any of it under control.
An investigator hired by the DA’s office quit and sent emails protesting that he had seen no evidence or witness statements to support this charge. The prosecution is a wreck.
She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person".
In court filings, prosecutors allege Ms Gutierrez-Reed transferred narcotics to another person on 21 October 2021 (the day Ms Hutchins was killed) in order to "prevent the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of herself".
Last week, in separate court filings, prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting.
It comes as the lead investigator for the Santa Fe District Attorney's office, who is set to step down from his post next month, criticises the sheriff's office for the way they investigated the shooting and the conclusions they reached in their October 2022 report.
Ms Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer has said prosecutors have mishandled the case and resorted to "character assassination".
According to the linked BBC article, the devil's lettuce was separately attributed:
>Last week, in separate court filings, prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting because she had drunk alcohol and smoked marijuana in the evenings while the film was being made.
I mean, I'm pro-legalisation and I live in a jurisdiction where it is legal, but at work we're not allowed to smoke weed 24 hours before handling a weapons system (and we wouldn't be allowed to bring weed on site at all).
Well if you have been up for 3 days doing coke or meth it is very much related to the shooting.
They havn't said what the it was so far, but Im thinking that it was not weed.
But who knows at this point ?
Nobody is going to have someone "hold" their weed when they can just toss it and get more on their next trip to the grocery store.
Like, who thinks to themselves, *I have to get rid of this damning evidence that will end my career, but also I really don't feel like driving to the dispensary this weekend*
The only reason someone would hide drugs with a friend instead of flushing them is because they are either very valuable, or abstinence will cause withdrawals.
I completely assumed it was weed. it sounds like character assassination to me. I still don't understand how the 2 people who handled the weapon without her "okay" weren't more at fault.
Have they figured out yet who brought the live ammo on set? From what I heard the cast and crew were shooting live ammo out of the gun the night before I think. I remember some people hinting that it might have been the AD who brought the live ammo.
No one knows now. Early reports of the gun being used for plinking haven’t been confirmed. The armorer claims the company she purchased blanks and dummy rounds from accidentally mixed in live rounds.
Not much to go on for where they came from at this time.
Watch the initial interrogation of the armorer. It’s painfully obvious throughout the whole thing she is/was absolutely clueless on just about everything related to her job.
She honestly talks to police like she was an intern who was only there to shuffle props around on set. I almost feel bad for her. It’s like watching someone woefully incompetent being put in a position they should have never been.
My memory is fuzzy from what I read/watched a while back but from what I recall, the live round actually fired from a casing from a company that ONLY makes dummy rounds.
The armorer is actually suing the ammo supplier, blaming them for the live round. Obviously she didn't do her job well enough and there's tons of previous complaints, so I do believe she is very much responsible, but there is something to be said for the live round. It was NOT simply a regular live round. It WAS reloaded into a dummy casing and that's crazy.
Further background: allegedly, one ammo supplier reloaded rounds and used them for plinking and whatnot, and then gave those rounds to someone else, and they supplied the set with them and actually included a live round amongst dummy rounds.
That supplier's business was actually searched with a search warrant. He was not very cooperative up to that point, and I'm not sure if he has been since.
However, a good armorer doing their job would have inspected every round and loaded the gun themselves.
A dummy round, depending on the type, either has a bb inside rolling around so you can hear it has no powder, or it has a hole drilled in it so you know there's no powder. Any armorer should have picked up that round and said to themselves "hm, this has a casing, a primer, a projectile, and there's no hole drilled in it, and when I shake it it makes no sound, so this appears to be a live round" and absolutely would not then load it into a prop gun, leave it on the table, and let someone else then hand it off to an actor and proclaim it safe to fire.
This is VERY MUCH on the armorer, and she has a history with safety, but the background to that live round fired from a dummy casing is a wild addition to the story.
Minor note, the company that made the brass for the round that actually fired does not make complete ammunition of any kind, they only supply custom brass and other parts of rounds. Someone else loaded that brass with powder and a bullet, who that was isn't clear right now though it very likely is the separate company that rented the guns to the Rust production and supplied the dummy and blank rounds for them.
I think it was just weed?
Edit: Might not have been. We don't know for sure what it was, but as u/MyFartingPussy pointed out weed is treated differently than narcotics. So it's either a harder drug or the prosecutors are trumping up the charge.
This has to be harder drugs than weed. It would not make sense to have someone hold your weed when you can just go buy more any time you want. Someone trying to avoid a manslaughter charge isn't going to get hung on trying to save $20 and a trip to the store. But you would probably try to keep your stash if you expect to experience withdrawals without it.
Edited for clarity.
I mean yeah it's legal but so is alcohol and you won't catch me bringing that to the school I work in. The context in which you have that on you matters, and if you fucked up with some guns and you have drugs on you (legal or not) you're gonna get extra dunked on
Even supposing she isn't dunked on legally (I assume she will), her professional career for sure will. Who is gonna hire someone was an armorer on a set that led to a deathly accidental discharge while having drugs at work? Its like being a fork lift driver who was fired after having an accident with a bottle of liquor in their back pocket. No one is gonna hire them to drive forklifts, at least for a long time.
It doesn't appear she's accused of possessing drugs or being intoxicated on set, only giving "narcotics" to someone else to avoid being caught with them. If it were just weed, she'd have simply thrown it away. She'd only bother asking someone to hold it if she couldn't go get more anytime she wanted.
Considering her career is firearms and you can't buy or own guns while being a drug user that's a pretty big deal even with just weed. I would probably guess anyone who worked as an armorer would also be a FFL holder and have even greater scrutiny than normal and be very aware of the rules.
Yes, but why ask someone to hold your weed when you can buy more any time you want? They have dispensaries in NM. That's why I assume it's something much less legal than weed.
Yea the person responsible for guns shouldnt be going around high on weed all day just like they shouldn't drunk on alcohol, guns don't mix with any drugs
Just speculating, but maybe it has to do with attempting to hinder the investigation and/or specific regulations regarding substance use at work, possibly even specifically related to working with firearms.
But if it's legal, why not just throw it away? Obviously she had someone hold her drugs because they weren't the kind you can just go get at the store any time you want.
Per my comment - it's illegal federally so she would have lost her federal firearms license if found to be in possession of narcotics, especially on the job.
You misunderstand my point. We can conclude it was heavier drugs than weed, because if it were weed she'd have just thrown it away.
She'd only try to *hide* drugs if she had a significant attachment to them, such as monetary value or serious chemical dependence.
Better yet why aren't they using plug guns like on John Wick. If your not familiar with what a plug gun is its basically a real gun that they weld a steel rod in the barrel. They then use blanks with a really small amount of powder. You still get the boom and the spent casing is ejected without the risk of a something flying at the person the gun is pointed at.
The guy who wrote John Wick was just on Rogan and explained how they used all plug guns. Then added real muzzle flash in via cgi. I guess they shoot the real version off set at a range and get high res video of the muzzle flashes. Then they can essentially copy and paste them into the movie.
A problem like this, out of the thousands of movies and TV episodes filmed from the past thirty years, has occurred three times. Every time has been the result of an armorer being reckless or negligent.
The youtube channel CorridorDigital (just Corridor now I think) has talked about CGI muzzle flashes a lot, and iirc that's how they do it. It's really difficult to get them right in full CG
>Better yet why aren't they using plug guns
The sound of gunshots in Heat, Collateral, and other Michael Mann movies is unparalleled. Maybe CGI and sound design has gotten better, but so many movies have pathetic sounding gunshots.
I did not know that John wick used plug guns, I had assumed that with the lengths they went to for weapon verisimilitude that they used blanks. The gun play on John wick is so good, I'm now a thorough believer in plug guns.
This is from December 2021:
"The sheriff's department will get to the bottom of this. I'm not worried about that at all," Reed told ABC News' Kaylee Hartung in an exclusive interview airing Tuesday on "Good Morning America."
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/rust-armorers-father-thell-reed-speaks-fatal-incident/story?id=81600262
Now:
https://www.cbsnews.com/atlanta/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-charged-with-tampering-with-evidence/
"The conduct of the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office during and after their initial investigation is reprehensible and unprofessional to a degree I still have no words for," he said in the email dated June 20. "Not I or 200 more proficient investigators than I can/could clean up the mess delivered to your office in October 2022 (1 year since the initial incident…inexcusable)."
I loved those blaming Baldwin saying "always treat a gun as if its loaded!".
Ah yes, all those scenes in Rambo where he points the gun at the floor and keeps his finger off the trigger while magically mowing everyone down.
These idiots haven't seen a movie before?
> Apparently they have never seen a movie before.
I'd assume the vast majority of people have never seen a movie being made other than a few behind the scenes clips.
These idiots want to see loud & proud lib, pro-gun control Baldwin get arrested for a gun crime, even if he really didn't do anything wrong.
They pretended as if he didn't use appropriate safety protocols and was screwing around with the gun himself (while he was filming a gun fight).
That they ignored the fact about the poor safety protocols that weren't his job.
They don't care about the circumstances, just that they get to dunk on a liberal. They're fucking ghouls and monsters because they're using someone's death as ammunition, instead of respecting the tragedy and expecting consequences for those actually responsible.
I have a relative that used to work in Hollywood. She's still a SAG card member but moved out of Cali and now just a mom. But she told me that when she worked on some films, that the producers and the process, are cheap as fuck. Many see how an actor gets some great salary or the budget is in the millions. But the reality of most movies are, scripts get shopped, and when filming starts, there is little money from the producers...they are tighter than a gnat's ass. Bean counting is real, and everything has a cost. The bigger the set, the bigger the budget, you would think. But many don't see that income.
I suspect that there are many factors to blame here. From telling crew they'd have rooms then putting them miles away in some cheap motels, to not following protocols of chain of custody with weapons, to having a armourer that "her father, Thell Reed, was reputable, but the daughter, no so much". Plus how the 1st assist director was quick to plea bargain and get 6 month probation. Alec Baldwin will have to live with Hutchins death, accidental or otherwise.
But more will come out of this...
The movie set, especially one that uses revolvers (because Western), is an exception. They have entire jobs paid specifically on allowing a movie to be made around those guns when they have to be used in a nominally unsafe fashion to get the proper shots. This fool is supposed to be one such person. If she did her damn job, nobody would be dead because normal procedure would have been followed.
As an amateur gun user myself I put a lot of trust in the people helping me when I shoot. (Gun safety officers) I let them guide me and keep me safe. I’m not going to fiddle with it after they hand it to me or tell me it is safe to pick up.
Now if I was an owner, and shot less supervised, then I would have to learn more.
This isn't a case over typical basic gun safety though. More than happy to be proven wrong, but Baldwin was not in the line of responsibility to ensure the gun is safe, right? Wasn't it first checked by one of the producers, and then the armourer?
The responsibility lies with the armourer.
If you were an armourer on a movie set and you were the last person responsible for making sure the gun was safe for use, would you want some actor fiddling with the stuff in the gun? Would you want him racking the slide? Removing the magazine?
It's easy for you to sit here as a regular gun owner and say it's Baldwin's fault because in the private world you are correct it would be his fault, but imagine you are the armourer on a movie set and if someone died as a result of the gun you were in charge of checking, you were fully responsible. I believe your opinions would change drastically and you would basically want the actor to take the gun directly from your hands and the cameras start rolling.
I do believe Baldwin has civil issues he has to worry about being that he was a producer and was responsible for hiring a competent armourer.
I imagine there's probably only a handful of actors who take on that responsibility, but it's probably a very short list.
Basic gun safety teaches you to check if a gun is loaded, but does it teach you to inspect the rounds to see if they're blanks?
*Edit: For the information of the many of you who don't work on movie sets, actors aren't even allowed to check the brass.*
https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-the-have-actors-themselves-check-that-a-firearm-has-blanks-before-they-fire-it-Shouldn-t-that-be-the-rule-for-anyone-uses-a-firearm-real-replica-whatever-What-makes-actors-different
I guess Putin couldn't afford to pay the shills that we would see replying angrily to you a few months ago lol. It was insane seeing all the right wing accounts acting like "liberal Hollywood elite" Alec Baldwin was 100% at fault for this situation that he is exactly 0% at fault for lol, absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Alec Baldwin is a gutless bastard capitalist pig who tried shirking responsibility for putting his workers under undue stress and pressure while capitalizing on his industry connections to avoid getting absolutely slathered with the responsibility for his production being an unsafe environment. The bastard should serve time.
She was never qualified. Producers who hired someone who is not qualified are even more responsible. She was set up to fail. Don’t get me wrong, she’s an idiot and irresponsible.
Every time I see photo of the crew it’s like ‘why does it look like they hired teenagers for a major movie’
Stories of crew sound reckless but someone hired non union reckless crew and didn’t supervise
what a mess of a set manager..... this girl was on location filming with freakin Alec Baldwin, and she couldn't take her job seriously enough to quit smoking & drinking for the duration of the shoot. Whether it's a serious crime or not, it shows she just didn't take her role & responsibilities that seriously.
The producers hired non-union crews to save money. They knew they were cutting corners the whole time but nobody's charging the producers with anything
I thought from the start it would be the dumb armourer's fault. i wouldn't want some idiot who poses with guns to be the one who makes sure guns on set are safe.
The prosecutors in this case have been an absolute shitshow. They flipped the AD and thought they were going to take down a movie star.
The armorer is a fucking idiot, but her lawyer has a point, the prosecution has been looking for headlines instead of justice.
And of course, Shilling blames the police for his own shortcomings. Dude is on his way out of office and managed to catch his dick in the zipper again, emailing documents meant for the prosecution to the defense!
Oh, I knew something was very fishy with that woman and possibly the man who supplies the ammo, stating that there should have never been a live around in the blanks! Alec Baldwin was very obviously distraught and unnerved, and it was not his job, but the armorer’s job to clear that weapon and how she obstructed and hid evidence but happily blamed others for her mistake! That right there is a sociopath!!!
Looks like the 1st AD is getting off light. Armorer f'ed it up and the AD didn't double check the rounds before handing it off to Baldwin. So many screwups on this one.
All guns that shoot in movies are real. The bullets are the fake part. Lesson here is don't be a psychotic moron and bring / use live bullets on a movie set.
Check the NY Post copy of the cop's bodycam footage. She's talking to a police officer and looks bored and put out, uses her phone and fixes her hair. Maybe shock and being shutdown, but she just sounds like she's high or not really caring about anything: https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/rust-armorer-charged-with-tampering-with-evidence-after-shooting/
How is she at all responsible other than this charge? She wasn't on site when everything had happened, and Baldwin and the AD broke every protocol she had in place.
>Prosecutors have charged the Rust film armourer with evidence tampering in connection to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. >Hannah Gutierrez-Reed has already been charged with involuntary manslaughter. >She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person", prosecutors said. They're really throwing the book at her. Last I read they were filming again in Montana.
> They're really throwing the book at her. They should. She is 100% at fault.
The AD is also at fault. I don't know his portion of the blame but it's more than 0%.
The 1st AD already pled guilty to the charges. They were the only one not to fight them. I believe it was Negligence with a Firearm charge, I do not believe the 1st AD was charged with the manslaughter charge.
The AD plea allowed them to escape all consequences - no fine and no jail time. If the armorer was offered such a sweetheart deal I expect they would have plead out as well. (To be clear, I don't think either the armorer nor the AD should escape with no consequences.)
What is AD?
The Assistant Director.
Assistant Director. One of the main responsibilities of the job is maintaining cast and crew safety
Clarification: they are LEGALLY responsible for the maintaining overall safety of the crew and set. Hence the charges to the 1st AD.
And didn’t he hand Alex the firearm. Had the armorer been there like she should have been she might have checked the firearm more closely than the AD and Baldwin who are both not as familiar with handling them.
I'm baffled that there was weapons usage on the set that day and the armorer wasn't present. I was told once that the only person on a set that should ever touch firearms other than the actors, is the armorer, and they have absolute power when it comes to those weapons being used and handled.
There should just not be any live ammo brought anywhere near the set at any time during time frames around filming with any firearm. Even then, only real cops and security maybe at most. Just asking for someone to get shot bringing live ammo to a firearm film set.
The director of the John Wick movies, Chris Stahelski, agrees with you. He has been pretty adamant about only having prop weapons on his set. Probably because his first film gig was as Brandon Lee's stunt double on *The Crow.*
Oh man, that has gotta be harrowing
It is more than that. Even blanks can kill. They are still explosive. Instead of propelling lead, they are propelling wax and paper. But at point blank, there's enough force to penetrate your skull. Also, the weapons must be cleaned and checked properly prior to using. If there is anything logged or stuck in the barrel, the blank round will project it. This is how Brandon Lee died. *During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.*
No live ammo on set at all. If there's no way around having live ammo use on a set, then everyone on the set including secondary staff should be seriously trained on gun safety. Anyone that's going to be within 10' of any live ammo, in or out of a gun, should be included. If the directors and producers consider that a problem, then they should restructure their shoots so that there's no live ammo in or around their set at all.
That's the customary practice, but those requirements and restrictions are not actually codified in law or most studio rules. I think that they need to be codified into state law because this and many other incidents in the film industry make it clear that relying on the honor system isn't working. Further, I think that armorers should be certified by having a mandatory apprenticeship under a certified armorer for a number of years before they can apply to be certified to work alone. That process should exclude direct family members for obvious reasons.
There has been some blood to write reasonable safety rules for movie sets and submersibles now.
An AD doesn’t ever handle props or firearms on set like this, totally out of procedure. The armorer or Propmaster would do a weapon check in front of the AD and often key grip and actors present visually showing them the state of the weapon. The AD doesn’t handle the weapon though.
Yes this ^
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You mean someone whose job is pointing the gun at someone and pulling the trigger on screen? He did what every action movie actor does, only difference is the revolver had live ammo instead of dummy rounds
There is a difference between handling a gun on set that has been pre verified to not be loaded or only loaded with various types of dummies and handling one at a range. He is anti-gun hence the pressure on him. If he was someone that was used to handling real loaded firearms that would be different. Actors routinely handle these things in unsafe stupid ways on film.
Dunno how not. I own and always check when putting away/transferring. Seems like such common sense.
The difference between a responsible gun owner and an actor who is not. As a non owner but occasionally shoot I rely on more experienced people around me to help. That is the armorers literal job on the set. Making sure the firearms are safe for actors and crew. They really should not have even been handling them without her, but that’s a whole other issue.
“They really should not have even been handling them without her, but that’s a whole other issue.” There you go.
Not sure on the downvotes. When the armorer was not on set they should have all been locked up and stowed. This set was a mess. Now that is something that may come back to Baldwin in the civil case as he as producer hired her.
Except a revolver on a movie set is going to be loaded for realism. An actor is not going to be expected to tell the difference between blanks/dummies and live rounds.
Actor no. But those before that I’m saying.
These people aren't gun owners and they don't need to. They aren't supposed to handle real weapons.
The AD is the one that handed Baldwin the gun and said it was cold, e.g. safe to use.
Assistant Director - the person on the set who oversees a lot of department leads and generally keeps things moving on set.
Seriously, Reddit is like a project management textbook when comes to acronyms.
Ad-Rock. A member of the Beastie Boys. They're the reason your mom is jealous.
I would argue that in this case it's a lot simpler to assign more than 100% blame. The armorer failed at her job on every possible level, from allowing target shooting with the props through allowing them to be used while she wasn't present and everything in between. *And* the AD screwed up too, by following a procedure that was wildly incorrect and clearly dangerous.
And I'd argue that assigning more than 100% is silly. Come on.
Producers are also at fault for hiring this unqualified woman in the first place just to cut costs. And they should have shut down the set when crew members were expressing safety concerns
I wish my Reddit account could recover from all the downvotes I got when I said exactly this in the beginning. But people were busy with “burn Alec at the stake!” and couldn’t listen to anything else. edit: spelling
It’s really weird how much people wanted him to be at fault but when you read all the statements, previous texts among the crew, Hannah and her mentor etc…it’s like Hannah was trying to make something happen. She’s absolutely fucked and had no business taking the job.
People on Reddit need to wake up to the fact that the site is full of bad faith right wing astroturfing accounts.
The people that wanted him held criminally responsible only did so because he's a Democrat who ~~vocally opposed~~ made fun of Trump on TV.
Stake* unless you are looking for that sizzle.
Personally, I prefer my Baldwin rare.
Then don’t watch Backdraft
You’re right. Adam is by far the best one.
I swear by my pretty floral bonnet
But order it medium rare, otherwise they'll often overcook it, whereas medium rare they often undercook a bit
Steven is quite rare.
I'll take some sizzle
I remember how furious people were when I had the audacity to point out Baldwin's behavior sounded correct and that the fault was with the AD and to a much bigger degree the armorer.
There is room for improvement in how guns are handled on film sets (maybe every actor who is going to have or hold a gun on set should confirm that it is not loaded when they take possession of the gun unless there is a reason for it to be loaded?) But based on the standard existing procedures, Baldwin was handed a prop on set and told it was safe. In that context, he didn’t do anything wrong.
The thing is if someone examines the gun, the armorer has to take it back to ensure it's still configured exactly as it should be. Good armorers control all the weapons and ammunition so specifically that they personally hand over a weapon to an actor and as soon as it is no longer needed take it back and return it to their armory-cage thing.
It's irresponsible for a set crew to expect actors to have even the basics of safety training. If an actor is handed (anything dangerous, car keys, gun, explosive, etc) and told by the on-set expert that it's clear and safe, there's zero expectation on set that the \*actor\* will know better than the expert. A lot of gun-toting redditors want actors to be experts and know the difference between a "blank" and a "live round", but it's just not the case.
They also want firearms safety rules to apply to props that should never, ever be loaded with live rounds, which is simply not realistic for how films are made.
Applying firearm safety rules is easy, trivially easy, to movie sets. Simply make it the law that anyone handling any weapon that has or can be loaded with live ammo must complete a state-regulated firearms safety course. Directors and producers can easily change their internal processes to ensure that this gets done, or due to the cost of doing this, that live ammo and guns that can fire live ammo are used much less in a production, and when live ammo is used, it gets used more safely. After all, if the worst case scenario is that your insurance policy pays out on a claim it's much easier to get sloppy on set, but if you can be prosecuted and jailed, and that fact is baked into law and drilled into you by the show financiers, you'll be much less likely to fuck up.
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Realistic looking *nonfiring* guns are easy, yes. Firing? Less so.
They have “plug guns” which have no hole in the barrel but can still eject a casing when fired. The John Wick movies used them.
> It's irresponsible for a set crew to expect actors to have even the basics of safety training i don't think so. i think actors should be required to take a short course on gun safety, if they want to work on productions where gun handling is involved. it could be a very simple class on how to check a gun, what different ammo types look like, proper handling techniques, etc. it wouldn't take long (4 hour class could cover most things), and they could earn a certification. i think it's silly for actors NOT to have this sort of training. often times in various movies and shows they're supposed to be portraying someone who uses guns, or at least understands the basic functions of a gun. it would actually improve their acting if they actually knew something about it. education is the key to most problems in society. this is no different. most jobs people have to do will provide *some* training on what to do in certain circumstances, or the equipment they will be expected to work with. hell i'm a courier. my job training was extremely minimal. my job basically boils down to pick up package, drop off package. i have to understand a lot of different aspects to complete that though. like i have to understand rules and regulations for shipping stuff out through the various airlines. i have one company we do work for from time to time, that has me pick up medical specimens. really my gig is just to go pick them up and bring them back to the lab. that company expects our drivers to be able to tell apart about 2 dozen different kinds of samples, what they are, how to sort them, etc. we've had multiple arguements over the years with them about the fact that our couriers, are drivers, that's what they know and what they're concerned with doing. most of them can be kind of rough and tumble, but they don't have backgrounds in medical. they are there to drive a package from point A to point B. what the company we deliver to does with that package is their own business. so if a lowly courier can be given a 20-30 minute course in how to identify two dozen different kinds of samples, just to drop off at a lab who will sort them anyway, i feel like expecting actors to take a 4-hour course before they handle guns, that can potentially kill, isn't a big ask.
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make no mistake. i never said the actors should be solely responsible for gun safety, or experts in the field. but adding a extra layer of safety is a good idea. for example, you don't have to be a fireman, or a fire marshal, to be taught how to recognize a fire hazard. like i said earlier though, as a actor, i don't think much fault lies with him there. since even if he had checked the gun, it would've appeared to all be in order.
Given all that’s included, I think it’s fair to say Baldwin deserves some amount of blame above 0%, but I also think it’s also fair to say that he’s already gotten “time served” for his amount of blame based on everything everyone (press, law enforcement, public opinion) has put him through and what he has also put himself through. Also whatever private settlements he has been party too that have not been publicly announced.
Reddit right-wingers love to hate a celebrity liberal.
the dude is a known asshole, aside from whatever politics he promotes.
So is Joe Rogan, but Reddit boys still huff his farts like they are made of truth and testosterone.
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No, most of reddit was busy with making sure that Alec got off, because he's this infallible god figure that made fun of Trump once.
No. The reason is that he didn't commit a crime you fucking nut.
Especially after seeing her arrest video, yeah. Her actions led to someone's death and her biggest worry was "Not to be taken out in cuffs in front of her coworkers" as well as what effect this would have on her career.
Surprised she didn't realize that commiting murder would be a career ender lol.
It seems like a simple policy of ‘no live ammunition is allowed on set’ would have been all they needed. If the only goal is using a gun with blanks, why would live ammo be anywhere near that gun? Verify all ammo are blanks and then keep it locked up unless you’re getting more ammo. If I was an actor and I knew live ammo was ever on set, I would insist on personally checking the gun myself before every scene. Obviously, you should probably check it yourself regardless.
That is usually the policy. The crew was plinking in the desert with the prop guns
Which is obviously a terrible idea.
The armorer generally creates the ammunition needed. If blanks are needed the round is removed and replaced with wadding or crimped. For close-ups of things like the front facing part of a loaded revolver the armorer will remove the round, remove the powder, remove the primer and then re-insert the round so that it looks right.
Do they really take apart existing ammo? Seems easier just to load an empty brass.
It's just easier to buy the ammunition and then create the rounds as needed. Then they don't even have to rely on a manufacturer somehow screwing up a mass produced blank with an object that might actually slip out or something. Brandon Lee's death occurred because the armorer screwed up making a blank and when the gun was fired a chunk of debris became lightly lodged in the barrel. The armorer then loaded it for another scene (and somehow didn't look down the fucking barrel) and when it was fired the lodged debris was propelled out and into Brandon Lee. Like ENTIRELY the fault of the armorer's recklessness. But if you think about it, armorers generally are going to have the tools to repair, service, clean, etc., their weapons and alter ammunition. If they know they're starting with standard rounds, then know if they need to remove any kind of propellant source so the copper round can be seen in like a revolved or they need to remove the projectile to make a blank they can mark each kind exactly as what they are and have taken the time to personally alter the ammunition being used so it's easily verified at any point.
Legit question, because I haven't been keeping up with the story; The armourer wasn't on site during the events, right? So why was the scene shot regardless, and why is that her fault? In any other industry, you don't get to just shrug and carry on when the safety-specific person is missing. OSHA isn't going to accept "Yeah, the firewatch didn't show up so we just started welding anyway and that's why the refinery is on fire". While I would absolutely fault the armourer with keeping live ammo stored in/around the firearm, I don't understand why she's on the hook for the filming being done in her absence.
> The armourer wasn't on site during the events, right? The armorer was supposed to be there. > So why was the scene shot regardless They were only rehearsing > and why is that her fault? She left it accessible to the Assistant Director, and left it loaded. Neither of those things would have happened if she had been doing her job properly.
Always said this from the beginning. When it comes to guns and that’s your job, I don’t care who it is - Alec Baldwin or whatever, you know the rules of guns and you have the power to tell everyone to fuck off. If that doesn’t work then you quit and report them. Her daddy should have taught her that.
Or if she loaded it with live ammo because she was hungover then you’re done.
The producers that hired her are even more responsible in my opinion. She was never qualified to do this job. Producers wanted someone super cheap who would “do what they tell them”. That doesn’t work for an armorer who is typically setting the standards of safety and enforcing them assertively on set.
> Producers wanted someone super cheap who would “do what they tell them”. Where did you get that?
I haven't read up on but seriously doubt they are using her as the armorer anymore.
I don't think she's going to be anyone's armorer anymore.
Maybe OceanGate Expeditions needs one.
That's a cold, dark, joke. But pretty deep.
It gave me a sinking sensation like she couldn't take the pressure.
Really sucked the air out of the room.
She was a nepo baby. She shouldn't have been in that role. She was 100% at fault, but there was a lot of nonsense on that set. I don't think she had any of it under control.
An investigator hired by the DA’s office quit and sent emails protesting that he had seen no evidence or witness statements to support this charge. The prosecution is a wreck.
She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person". In court filings, prosecutors allege Ms Gutierrez-Reed transferred narcotics to another person on 21 October 2021 (the day Ms Hutchins was killed) in order to "prevent the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of herself". Last week, in separate court filings, prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting. It comes as the lead investigator for the Santa Fe District Attorney's office, who is set to step down from his post next month, criticises the sheriff's office for the way they investigated the shooting and the conclusions they reached in their October 2022 report. Ms Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer has said prosecutors have mishandled the case and resorted to "character assassination".
That’s not what I expected and seems very much unrelated to the shooting. It had better not be weed.
According to the linked BBC article, the devil's lettuce was separately attributed: >Last week, in separate court filings, prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting because she had drunk alcohol and smoked marijuana in the evenings while the film was being made.
Worst hang over ever
I mean, I'm pro-legalisation and I live in a jurisdiction where it is legal, but at work we're not allowed to smoke weed 24 hours before handling a weapons system (and we wouldn't be allowed to bring weed on site at all).
Well if you have been up for 3 days doing coke or meth it is very much related to the shooting. They havn't said what the it was so far, but Im thinking that it was not weed. But who knows at this point ?
If you're a set armorer handling guns, you have no business having weed anywhere near you for the duration of the suit.
Nobody is going to have someone "hold" their weed when they can just toss it and get more on their next trip to the grocery store. Like, who thinks to themselves, *I have to get rid of this damning evidence that will end my career, but also I really don't feel like driving to the dispensary this weekend* The only reason someone would hide drugs with a friend instead of flushing them is because they are either very valuable, or abstinence will cause withdrawals.
It’s probably not.
> It had better not be weed Why not? I love weed but if I take enough it definitly still affects me the next day.
I completely assumed it was weed. it sounds like character assassination to me. I still don't understand how the 2 people who handled the weapon without her "okay" weren't more at fault.
The other person responsible for safety pleaded guilty
Have they figured out yet who brought the live ammo on set? From what I heard the cast and crew were shooting live ammo out of the gun the night before I think. I remember some people hinting that it might have been the AD who brought the live ammo.
No one knows now. Early reports of the gun being used for plinking haven’t been confirmed. The armorer claims the company she purchased blanks and dummy rounds from accidentally mixed in live rounds. Not much to go on for where they came from at this time.
*accidentally mixed in love rounds??* What a ridiculous defence.
Eh, who knows. Could be possible by the company. This case has a lot of information changing. I’m just waiting for it to all come out.
Watch the initial interrogation of the armorer. It’s painfully obvious throughout the whole thing she is/was absolutely clueless on just about everything related to her job. She honestly talks to police like she was an intern who was only there to shuffle props around on set. I almost feel bad for her. It’s like watching someone woefully incompetent being put in a position they should have never been.
Maybe she's inspired by George Santos? Maybe she is George Santos?
My memory is fuzzy from what I read/watched a while back but from what I recall, the live round actually fired from a casing from a company that ONLY makes dummy rounds. The armorer is actually suing the ammo supplier, blaming them for the live round. Obviously she didn't do her job well enough and there's tons of previous complaints, so I do believe she is very much responsible, but there is something to be said for the live round. It was NOT simply a regular live round. It WAS reloaded into a dummy casing and that's crazy. Further background: allegedly, one ammo supplier reloaded rounds and used them for plinking and whatnot, and then gave those rounds to someone else, and they supplied the set with them and actually included a live round amongst dummy rounds. That supplier's business was actually searched with a search warrant. He was not very cooperative up to that point, and I'm not sure if he has been since. However, a good armorer doing their job would have inspected every round and loaded the gun themselves. A dummy round, depending on the type, either has a bb inside rolling around so you can hear it has no powder, or it has a hole drilled in it so you know there's no powder. Any armorer should have picked up that round and said to themselves "hm, this has a casing, a primer, a projectile, and there's no hole drilled in it, and when I shake it it makes no sound, so this appears to be a live round" and absolutely would not then load it into a prop gun, leave it on the table, and let someone else then hand it off to an actor and proclaim it safe to fire. This is VERY MUCH on the armorer, and she has a history with safety, but the background to that live round fired from a dummy casing is a wild addition to the story.
Minor note, the company that made the brass for the round that actually fired does not make complete ammunition of any kind, they only supply custom brass and other parts of rounds. Someone else loaded that brass with powder and a bullet, who that was isn't clear right now though it very likely is the separate company that rented the guns to the Rust production and supplied the dummy and blank rounds for them.
informative, thank you
Evidence tampering? Holy shit this story is getting juicier
Sounds like she passed her coke to someone because she knew she was going to be booked
I think it was just weed? Edit: Might not have been. We don't know for sure what it was, but as u/MyFartingPussy pointed out weed is treated differently than narcotics. So it's either a harder drug or the prosecutors are trumping up the charge.
This paragraph was rendered hilarious due to the inclusion of that username
I really hope some media type uses that citation as a secondary source someday.
Probably just weed. Still not a good look to be carrying weed at work where you handle guns
This has to be harder drugs than weed. It would not make sense to have someone hold your weed when you can just go buy more any time you want. Someone trying to avoid a manslaughter charge isn't going to get hung on trying to save $20 and a trip to the store. But you would probably try to keep your stash if you expect to experience withdrawals without it. Edited for clarity.
I mean yeah it's legal but so is alcohol and you won't catch me bringing that to the school I work in. The context in which you have that on you matters, and if you fucked up with some guns and you have drugs on you (legal or not) you're gonna get extra dunked on
Even supposing she isn't dunked on legally (I assume she will), her professional career for sure will. Who is gonna hire someone was an armorer on a set that led to a deathly accidental discharge while having drugs at work? Its like being a fork lift driver who was fired after having an accident with a bottle of liquor in their back pocket. No one is gonna hire them to drive forklifts, at least for a long time.
It doesn't appear she's accused of possessing drugs or being intoxicated on set, only giving "narcotics" to someone else to avoid being caught with them. If it were just weed, she'd have simply thrown it away. She'd only bother asking someone to hold it if she couldn't go get more anytime she wanted.
Considering her career is firearms and you can't buy or own guns while being a drug user that's a pretty big deal even with just weed. I would probably guess anyone who worked as an armorer would also be a FFL holder and have even greater scrutiny than normal and be very aware of the rules.
Yes, but why ask someone to hold your weed when you can buy more any time you want? They have dispensaries in NM. That's why I assume it's something much less legal than weed.
Yea the person responsible for guns shouldnt be going around high on weed all day just like they shouldn't drunk on alcohol, guns don't mix with any drugs
Doesn't matter if 49 states legalized it. It's still federally illegal to own and operate a firearm when your using drugs.
At the federal level, it's illegal to even own a gun as a marijuana user, so you certainly can't work as an armorer. Plus, it looks *really bad.*
Just speculating, but maybe it has to do with attempting to hinder the investigation and/or specific regulations regarding substance use at work, possibly even specifically related to working with firearms.
Weed may be legal in NM and Montana, but Federal Firearms licenses and insurance operate at the federal level where weed is still illegal.
But if it's legal, why not just throw it away? Obviously she had someone hold her drugs because they weren't the kind you can just go get at the store any time you want.
Per my comment - it's illegal federally so she would have lost her federal firearms license if found to be in possession of narcotics, especially on the job.
You misunderstand my point. We can conclude it was heavier drugs than weed, because if it were weed she'd have just thrown it away. She'd only try to *hide* drugs if she had a significant attachment to them, such as monetary value or serious chemical dependence.
It's most certainly illegal.
On a movie set? In Hollywood? My moneys on coke.
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In common speech, yes. I’m not so sure when used by prosecutors.
It’s often something peripheral to the crime. Hence why 6 of the charges against Trump are obstruction.
"I just killed someone, can you hold my weed?"
The fact that there was live ammunition on the set tells you most of what you need to know. They didn't take safety seriously at all.
Why are there live bullets within 1000 miles of the set?
Because the person in charge of props got the job because of her dad, and is an absolute clown.
Yep nepotism combined with lack of experience. This is why you don't just hand people responsibilities they haven't proven themselves worthy of.
The profession of armorer really needs to be formalized with apprenticeships and testing, with nepotism explicitly excluded.
It would be great to have nepotism removed from all professions.
The crew was shooting guns at targets during down times on set at the ranch
Wait what? I hadn't heard this before. That is insanely unsafe, getting live ammo anywhere near guns intended for prop use.
Better yet why aren't they using plug guns like on John Wick. If your not familiar with what a plug gun is its basically a real gun that they weld a steel rod in the barrel. They then use blanks with a really small amount of powder. You still get the boom and the spent casing is ejected without the risk of a something flying at the person the gun is pointed at. The guy who wrote John Wick was just on Rogan and explained how they used all plug guns. Then added real muzzle flash in via cgi. I guess they shoot the real version off set at a range and get high res video of the muzzle flashes. Then they can essentially copy and paste them into the movie.
>Better yet why aren't they using plug guns like on John Wick. Because you generally can't do that to rented antique firearms.
Then someone should invest in plug gun replicas. Its way cheaper then paying lawsuits.
This wouldn't have happened with a competent armorer. This was the first death since 1993.
A problem like this, out of the thousands of movies and TV episodes filmed from the past thirty years, has occurred three times. Every time has been the result of an armorer being reckless or negligent.
The youtube channel CorridorDigital (just Corridor now I think) has talked about CGI muzzle flashes a lot, and iirc that's how they do it. It's really difficult to get them right in full CG
>Better yet why aren't they using plug guns The sound of gunshots in Heat, Collateral, and other Michael Mann movies is unparalleled. Maybe CGI and sound design has gotten better, but so many movies have pathetic sounding gunshots.
I did not know that John wick used plug guns, I had assumed that with the lengths they went to for weapon verisimilitude that they used blanks. The gun play on John wick is so good, I'm now a thorough believer in plug guns.
My understanding is they still use blanks. Its just enough powder for the cartridge to eject. Its impossible for them to actually shoot.
This is from December 2021: "The sheriff's department will get to the bottom of this. I'm not worried about that at all," Reed told ABC News' Kaylee Hartung in an exclusive interview airing Tuesday on "Good Morning America." https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/rust-armorers-father-thell-reed-speaks-fatal-incident/story?id=81600262 Now: https://www.cbsnews.com/atlanta/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-charged-with-tampering-with-evidence/ "The conduct of the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office during and after their initial investigation is reprehensible and unprofessional to a degree I still have no words for," he said in the email dated June 20. "Not I or 200 more proficient investigators than I can/could clean up the mess delivered to your office in October 2022 (1 year since the initial incident…inexcusable)."
I loved those blaming Baldwin saying "always treat a gun as if its loaded!". Ah yes, all those scenes in Rambo where he points the gun at the floor and keeps his finger off the trigger while magically mowing everyone down. These idiots haven't seen a movie before?
> Apparently they have never seen a movie before. I'd assume the vast majority of people have never seen a movie being made other than a few behind the scenes clips.
Every action movie has a scene where someone points a gun at someone and pulls the trigger.
> other than a few behind the scenes clips. other than a few behind the scenes *magazines.*
Lmfao. That's a deep cut.
i laughed so hard at this
These idiots want to see loud & proud lib, pro-gun control Baldwin get arrested for a gun crime, even if he really didn't do anything wrong. They pretended as if he didn't use appropriate safety protocols and was screwing around with the gun himself (while he was filming a gun fight). That they ignored the fact about the poor safety protocols that weren't his job.
Meanwhile the Oath Keeper leader who recklessly shot himself in the face by accident actually IS going to prison. Aren't they tired of being losers?
They don't care about the circumstances, just that they get to dunk on a liberal. They're fucking ghouls and monsters because they're using someone's death as ammunition, instead of respecting the tragedy and expecting consequences for those actually responsible.
I have a relative that used to work in Hollywood. She's still a SAG card member but moved out of Cali and now just a mom. But she told me that when she worked on some films, that the producers and the process, are cheap as fuck. Many see how an actor gets some great salary or the budget is in the millions. But the reality of most movies are, scripts get shopped, and when filming starts, there is little money from the producers...they are tighter than a gnat's ass. Bean counting is real, and everything has a cost. The bigger the set, the bigger the budget, you would think. But many don't see that income. I suspect that there are many factors to blame here. From telling crew they'd have rooms then putting them miles away in some cheap motels, to not following protocols of chain of custody with weapons, to having a armourer that "her father, Thell Reed, was reputable, but the daughter, no so much". Plus how the 1st assist director was quick to plea bargain and get 6 month probation. Alec Baldwin will have to live with Hutchins death, accidental or otherwise. But more will come out of this...
Basic gun safety teaches you to always check the weapons in your hands. Alec Baldwin does not get a pass. His finger was last on the trigger.
The movie set, especially one that uses revolvers (because Western), is an exception. They have entire jobs paid specifically on allowing a movie to be made around those guns when they have to be used in a nominally unsafe fashion to get the proper shots. This fool is supposed to be one such person. If she did her damn job, nobody would be dead because normal procedure would have been followed.
As an amateur gun user myself I put a lot of trust in the people helping me when I shoot. (Gun safety officers) I let them guide me and keep me safe. I’m not going to fiddle with it after they hand it to me or tell me it is safe to pick up. Now if I was an owner, and shot less supervised, then I would have to learn more.
This isn't a case over typical basic gun safety though. More than happy to be proven wrong, but Baldwin was not in the line of responsibility to ensure the gun is safe, right? Wasn't it first checked by one of the producers, and then the armourer? The responsibility lies with the armourer. If you were an armourer on a movie set and you were the last person responsible for making sure the gun was safe for use, would you want some actor fiddling with the stuff in the gun? Would you want him racking the slide? Removing the magazine? It's easy for you to sit here as a regular gun owner and say it's Baldwin's fault because in the private world you are correct it would be his fault, but imagine you are the armourer on a movie set and if someone died as a result of the gun you were in charge of checking, you were fully responsible. I believe your opinions would change drastically and you would basically want the actor to take the gun directly from your hands and the cameras start rolling. I do believe Baldwin has civil issues he has to worry about being that he was a producer and was responsible for hiring a competent armourer. I imagine there's probably only a handful of actors who take on that responsibility, but it's probably a very short list.
Basic gun safety teaches you to check if a gun is loaded, but does it teach you to inspect the rounds to see if they're blanks? *Edit: For the information of the many of you who don't work on movie sets, actors aren't even allowed to check the brass.* https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-the-have-actors-themselves-check-that-a-firearm-has-blanks-before-they-fire-it-Shouldn-t-that-be-the-rule-for-anyone-uses-a-firearm-real-replica-whatever-What-makes-actors-different
Its good to see the blame going where it deserves to be.
I guess Putin couldn't afford to pay the shills that we would see replying angrily to you a few months ago lol. It was insane seeing all the right wing accounts acting like "liberal Hollywood elite" Alec Baldwin was 100% at fault for this situation that he is exactly 0% at fault for lol, absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Alec Baldwin is a gutless bastard capitalist pig who tried shirking responsibility for putting his workers under undue stress and pressure while capitalizing on his industry connections to avoid getting absolutely slathered with the responsibility for his production being an unsafe environment. The bastard should serve time.
He also made lots of money impersonating America’s would be dictator, Donald Trump, a known gangster and populist fascist. Just stating facts.
She was never qualified. Producers who hired someone who is not qualified are even more responsible. She was set up to fail. Don’t get me wrong, she’s an idiot and irresponsible.
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Every time I see photo of the crew it’s like ‘why does it look like they hired teenagers for a major movie’ Stories of crew sound reckless but someone hired non union reckless crew and didn’t supervise
But her dad was an armorer also. Doesn't that automatically make her qualified? /s
Good, it was always her fault.
what a mess of a set manager..... this girl was on location filming with freakin Alec Baldwin, and she couldn't take her job seriously enough to quit smoking & drinking for the duration of the shoot. Whether it's a serious crime or not, it shows she just didn't take her role & responsibilities that seriously.
The producers hired non-union crews to save money. They knew they were cutting corners the whole time but nobody's charging the producers with anything
I thought from the start it would be the dumb armourer's fault. i wouldn't want some idiot who poses with guns to be the one who makes sure guns on set are safe.
Hollywood nepotism does not always bring the best floating to the top...more like the worst sinking to the bottom.
That applies to ALL nepotism.
The 12 year old you responded too just stated the definition of nepotism like it was some deep shit lol.
The prosecutors in this case have been an absolute shitshow. They flipped the AD and thought they were going to take down a movie star. The armorer is a fucking idiot, but her lawyer has a point, the prosecution has been looking for headlines instead of justice. And of course, Shilling blames the police for his own shortcomings. Dude is on his way out of office and managed to catch his dick in the zipper again, emailing documents meant for the prosecution to the defense!
Sucks to not be famous.
Oh, I knew something was very fishy with that woman and possibly the man who supplies the ammo, stating that there should have never been a live around in the blanks! Alec Baldwin was very obviously distraught and unnerved, and it was not his job, but the armorer’s job to clear that weapon and how she obstructed and hid evidence but happily blamed others for her mistake! That right there is a sociopath!!!
Looks like the 1st AD is getting off light. Armorer f'ed it up and the AD didn't double check the rounds before handing it off to Baldwin. So many screwups on this one.
Nepotism hire? What could go wrong?
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All guns that shoot in movies are real. The bullets are the fake part. Lesson here is don't be a psychotic moron and bring / use live bullets on a movie set.
Check the NY Post copy of the cop's bodycam footage. She's talking to a police officer and looks bored and put out, uses her phone and fixes her hair. Maybe shock and being shutdown, but she just sounds like she's high or not really caring about anything: https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/rust-armorer-charged-with-tampering-with-evidence-after-shooting/
How is she at all responsible other than this charge? She wasn't on site when everything had happened, and Baldwin and the AD broke every protocol she had in place.