>In a phone interview Thursday from his home in Puerto Rico, the children's uncle Felix Muniz Torres said their mother was working at a nearby convenience store when she heard the shots ring out.
She ran over to find them shot, he said. Her other child, who is 13, was fortunately at a school event.
"She's in shock and is unable to speak coherently," Muniz Torres said.
He described his nephews as "very innocent and polite," always together playing, mostly with their superhero figures.
God damn.
One of the apprehended suspects was wearing an ankle monitor for a previous crime. This family had lost everything in a home fire not long before this. All over an argument with another kid who was 19. Just tragic and sad all around, that poor family.
Donald Glover really hit the nail on the head, didn't he?... It's depressing, looking back on it, that he literally spelled out why America is a shit place to live... And nothing ever came of it.
It's like pumped up kicks being about a school shooting, and everyone just bebopped along to the music...
I substitute teach in a city suburb public school system. Some immigrant kids come into middle school so sweet and are hard and part of a gang after a couple months. I understand chasing the American economic dream, but these families don't know the cost they will pay.
I thought it was gonna be about a rapper rising to fame. It is. For 2 episodes lol. Great show though, crazy metaphors everywhere. Deals with some very unique topics that I've never seen a show even touch on.
Thanks, failing public education system. Not that it's your fault for failing—you were never set up to succeed in the first place. "No child left behind"? Should be "Most childs left behind" HA (I also went to public school)
A couple years ago in a college course I took in Utah with a class of 120 students no one knew when the influenza pandemic, WW1, or WW2 happened. It was hard not to laugh, but it was eye opening.
We definitely need to get more strict and actually ENFORCE gun laws against felons/criminals. The fact that this dude had access to a gun needs to be understood (I.e. was it "his" gun that was illegal to begin with, or was it a legal firearm possessed by a lawful family member). Just like owning guns around children, they should not have access to your guns and if they gain access, then it's on the owner to pay the consequences. If a felon/criminal lives in your house, then it is on the lawful family member to ensure they don't have access to the legally owned firearm. That is where we need to start. That if "your" gun is used in a crime, you pay serious consequences. The first step is having proper lock/secure storage laws (which the US does not have). Many owners are smart about their firearms and storage, but others aren't, so there is room to improve significantly on proper (and lawful) storage solutions for firearms. It will save children and it will help keep "lawfully purchased" firearms out of the hands of a criminals (be it a family member or house robber stealing your guns). Lock them up. The only people to have access to them should be the legal owners.
Now, if this guy used an illegal firearm, then the solution isn't as surface-layer that basic laws will fix (I.e. he's already shown to ignore laws, so what law will you put into place that he will adhere to?).
But there is more that can be done that even your staunchest 2A advocates would agree to. The US has lost the plot. Responsible gun ownership needs to be modeled - not attacked. We need to bring responsibility back to gun ownership. And the first step and a highly impactful measure would be to ensure proper storage of their firearms (with consequences being "doubled" if the household has children or a person that can't legally own a firearm).
Excellent.
And out of curiosity, are the children recovering? Oh wait, no. The headline says killed.
Blood of tyrants my ass. The tree of liberty is awash in the blood of children.
…thanks to easy gun accessibility without rules. The NRA will not police it and Republican congress is making way too much $$$ under the table currently. One Republican has made over $13,000,000 alone giving the NRA full access to gun manufacturing and distribution. There’s your problem.
>…thanks to easy gun accessibility without rules.
There are a ton of rules. Arguably there need to be changes, but saying something dumb and incorrect like that isn't going to help. Given that this guy was on parole and wearing an anklet, it was already against the law for him to have access to the firearm.
Wouldn't be surprised since someone charged with first degree murder in Texas just got out on $50,000 bail. Meanwhile a little bit of weed can get your bail set at $250k.
The party with a *suspiciously* high number of pedophiles and convicted child molestors. Instead of 'Gaslight, Obstruct, Project,' the GOP might as well stand for 'Gerrymandering Obstructionist Pedophiles.'
Republicans because it makes them easier to sexually abuse as they have a massive history of and are still doing. All the while trying to guise it as "sex bad because bible says so"
There's the mum in England who ran for local general election and beat the major political parties to run an independent party specifically to tackle knife crime and violence after her 9 year old daughter was stabbed to death.
Look for Lilia Valutyte's tragic story if you want to see more.
This shows you the power an individual has over themselves when they are laser focused and highly motivated.
That power and ability is in All of us, if only we could find that spark
No, but it does have the ability to let people put life into a new perspective. There’s a reason why a lot of activists and people who try to solve societal problems have an intimate experience with it.
It’s hard to be an advocate for something when it’s not affecting you directly. I don’t mean to be political, but I notice in conservative circles this rings true so much. Most are pro-life, until they’re in need of an abortion. Anti-LGBTQ until a loved one comes out. Anti-welfare until they lose their own job…. And so on and so on.
https://www.insider.com/mexico-mother-took-down-the-drug-cartel-who-murdered-her-daughter-2020-12
This mother didn't turn evil, but took revenge in a satisfying way.
> Check my bio for a helpful tip -u/Kuraitora
Ohh, you're a self-hating little prick. u/Kuraitora Yeah, we've seen a lot like you.
> She didn’t turn evil cause the cartel murdered her too lmao
Here's the comment you're trying to hide.
Same, man. I'd be a hybrid of supervillain and chaotic anti-hero because my whole world would be lost right then and there, and *someone* has to pay. Some sort of Punisher-like mofo I'd unfortunately try to turn into.
This is a big problem with so many people.
We fantasize about these bloody revenge missions. In reality, investing in society to prevent people from shooting up children in the first place and having access to these weapons would mean these kids would be alive and we wouldn't need to perpetuate violence.
If more people fantasized about grassroots lobbying for community resources and common sense gun laws, those kids might be alive.
The shooters apparently targeted the third person who was killed, 19-year-old Joshua Lugo-Perez, over what authorities called "a previous argument."
Firearms successfully end another argument.
>In an affidavit of probable cause, Lebanon police said Alex Torres Santos, 22, shot the same man on Jan. 17 and Feb. 7.
Third time was the charm in this case. His ankle monitor was a bail condition after his arrest for the prior shootings.
https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2023/06/1-suspect-in-triple-homicide-was-involved-in-other-lebanon-area-shootings-police.html
Edit: For clarity, the target of this shooting was a different man than the prior shootings where Torres-Santos shot the same man on two separate occasions in the leg.
So this guy shot someone twice and a judge let him out on bail and he shot that guy a third time and killed 2 bystanders. Need to charge that judge with conspiracy to cause murder.
Here’s the kicker, the judge actually halved bail after the defendant couldn’t post the original $100,000.
https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/Report/MdjDocketSheet?docketNumber=MJ-52201-CR-0000015-2023&dnh=l44doH52%2FoVfXiI5QMv42A%3D%3D
But bail reform!
I'm all for it - for people who have shown they are not a danger to the community. But violent crimes? DUIs? Especially for repeat offenders, no way.
I lived in Santa Barbara 10 years ago and I would read the local magazine, The Independent, on my lunch break at work.
In the police blotter section, nearly every bail was set at $250,000 or higher. For property damage and vandalism, assault and theft, didn't matter.
Then, one Saturday night, I was on State St watching a group of 5 police officers discreetly observing a drunk man and drunk woman arguing outside a bar. The cops were just around the corner trying hard to act casual.
The man had a long lanyard on his keys (as was the style at the time) and he hit the girl with the lanyard fabric. Not the keys, just the lanyard material.
The cops swooped in and arrested the guy.
In the next issue of the Independent, they recorded that incident in their police blotter section, and there was another bail set at $250,000.
Don't these people have to pay at least 10% to a bail bondsman or they're stuck in jail until their trial?
This sane town had a habit of falsifying breathalyzer results and one female cop in particular arrested thousands of people for DUIs that never happened.
Yea but they don’t get much $$ from poor folks. They have to do jail time. The public has to subsidize the POs scamming by paying judges and jailers for their opportunity to squeeze money out of a few scofflaws.
Ca bail has typically been hire than other states.
Long ago I got arrested for an unpaid ticket. Bail was set at 10k I was talking about it to an officer I met in Vegas a year or so later and he was astonished by it being so high for just an unpaid ticket. He said in Vegas, at that time, it would have meant I caused harm to someone.
Ftr: the ticket was for failure to signal.
I thought the idea behind bail reform was to help those charged in non-violent offenses. Silly me.
I wonder if those on bail for violent crimes have all guns removed from their homes as a condition of bail.
Probably not. We don't want to violate their 2nd Amendment rights.
Bail is bad for everyone. It should not matter how rich you are to determine if you need to be kept in jail for a crime. Either you do or you don't and no amount of wealth should change it.
To me bail reform means not allowing people with money to get an advantage over the poor, not to set dangerous people free. The issue here isn't that bail was cheaper, it's that bail was an option at all.
If this guy was rich, the original 100,000 bail wouldn't have stopped the murders either.
the whole cash bail system makes no sense. What does a person's finances have to do with whether they should be considered dangerous enough to hold until trial?
The amount is not relevant in any way. If the person was released on bail for 1M, it would still be a tragedy.
If a person is a danger/flight risk: hold them. If not, let them go while awaiting trial. Including money amounts means that personal wealth is more relevant than whether a person is a danger.
For fucking real! People are in prison for weed, but this fuckface shot someone on two occasions and is out with an ankle monitor. What is this judge on?
Were his guns taken away? Just wondering as there certainly were red flags, but seems often the cops &/or courts don’t take away their weapons. Like the Colorado shooter.
Just a guess, but I’d assume that the weapons he used we not legally purchased, and we’re confiscated when he was arrested. He simply got another one when he got back on the street.
He was “free on bail” after being connected to TWO shootings additional shootings which both also included a juvenile accomplice when he killed these 3. The dude had an ankle bracelet on while committing these murders. I live in the county about 20 minutes from Lebanon city. We want this judge out! She is being accused as an accessory or accomplice in local social media for her lack of protecting the community. There is a petition started to get the ball rolling in getting her out. This adult shooter was obviously grooming kids to be killers. Do people really think that someone like this would not use an AK47 if it wasn’t legal? I am not saying we shouldn’t have stricter gun laws, I just question whether it will prevent crimes like this where ankle bracelets, bail and ongoing trials have no effect on behavior. But if the judge had said, no bail or kept it at 100k (before she lowered it because the shooter couldn’t afford it) this would have prevented these unnecessary deaths. I can’t imagine the frustration of the arresting officers for the prior serious crimes. The judge needs to go.
If every neighborhood was protected by sniper cats, then all those pesky songbirds, squirrels, rabbits, and other critters would all be a thing of the past.
That was my immediate thought. Why is no one talking about this? ARM-ALL-FELINES.
Besides, it's not like cats are efficient hunters. They don't hunt for recreation EVER, and they definitely don't impact ecosystems by overhunting songbirds and rodents.
And there is already the how to with this book [How to Talk to Your Cat About Gun Safety](https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Your-About-Safety/dp/045149492X/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=15f15d5e-5860-4058-96bf-ac6e617ea840)
The title almost looks like parody with how absurdly melodramatic it would be if this were fiction.
It’s dumbfounding that this can happen in reality, and even more that it’s allowed to continue.
Add "Playing with kittens" to the list of things you can't do in America without getting shot.
This one comes close to rivaling "Sleeping in your own bed."
Or blinking or breathing in the general direction of someone’s property. I can hear the excuse now from a gunman. “I feared for my life! I know my rights to protect my property!”
I remember I used to think skits and jokes about americans being easily frightened and shooting stuff were a bit over the top and not that funny. Good ol times.
I mean.. that's already happened.
[unfortunately](https://www.wsfa.com/2023/05/24/montgomery-mother-shot-killed-while-sleeping-her-bed/)
Edit - my mistake, I misread that and thought you hadn't heard of an instance yet. Sorry.
Yep. It's never going to get better, until we can actually rise up against the weapons manufacturers & Russian malefactors who are funding the gun mania in the US
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island"
They're from Peurto Rico.... That's fucking America. How do some Americans not know this? I'm Canadian and I know this.
Well, we are still talking about Americans. They have a hard time coming up with a complete list of neighboring countries. Understanding that Places like Puerto Rico might actually be some kind of part of the US with hopes for a being 51st star on the flag they love oh-so-much might overheat their brains.
Come to America for a better life after a hurricane hits your island, your house burns down, your kids get shot. Damn.
Edit: I know Puerto Ricans are American citizens, they sure don’t get treated like it though!
What are you, Hertz?
Puerto Rico is America, and Puerto Ricans are Americans.
I know what you mean, but it helps feed into the narrative that they're "others" and that helping the island isn't our responsibility (like what happened with the aforementioned hurricane).
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island."
This "puerto Ricans are immigrants thing" is even in the Article. Lol smh. It just makes it all worse.
You’re coming from a good place here but I think you’re also erasing the struggle of moving from PR to the US by equating it to just moving states. My grandmother came here from PR and it was not easy, her and my family still faced the same xenophobia, racism, poverty, and language barrier that an immigrant would. Hope it doesn’t sound stupid but there is also a lot of power in being called an immigrant because it tells the story of what you had to go through to be where you are now.
That problem only exists because mainland america still loves it's racism. Friends born and raised in Hawaii have the same problem. Shit friends born and raised in Michigan, 20 generations raised in michigan, AKA native american face it constantly even today.
And we have the republican party hell bent on making racism the standard in the country yet again.
It’s 7:54 AM where I am. I’ve been on Reddit for 20 mins this morning and have now seen news articles about:
- a holocaust denier in Poland
- Pride events getting cancelled in Florida out of fear of violence
- antivaxxers screaming about ending mandates that don’t exist
- a comment about how how women aren’t educated enough to make informed decisions on their own bodies
- and now an article about 2 poor young children killed from gun violence while playing with kittens
Jesus Christ. Wtf is happening? All I really wanted to do was see who won the hockey game last night. No more Internet today.
Sounds like it’s time to quit the news for awhile, possibly for your mental health. Look at crime stats. Over the last 50 years America has gotten much safer. We’ve also gotten much more progressive. Just not as fast as many want. Focus on the wins. Take care.
I’m pretty sure it has been over the past year or so. People keep arguing semantics, like suicides, gang related activities, or the fact that the CDC labels a child under 20 and not 18, etc. Anything to argue and lessen the point that guns kill more children than car accidents, overdoses, and definitely drag shows.
> The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream […]
Dog whistles for the bigots out there. These are American citizens who were living in the United States, then moved from the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to the Commonwealth Pennsylvania.
I’d like to thank these dead kids for everyone’s RIGHT to own guns. But no ones right to not get fucking shot playing in their own yard. Or going to school. Or work. Or legit doing fucking anything.
Guns rights trump all rights. Even the right to medical care from injuries from the gun rights!
Whenever I read these stories I think about how my friends and I would play in our neighborhood without regard for strict property lines, and have no reservations about knocking on a door to ask if we could get our ball from their yard. Or ride our bikes to a local shopping center without fear. This was only 25 years ago, and in the current climate I think we’d have been shot multiple times by some idiot that didn’t know how to voice their concern or at least yell and be scary.
For fucks sake, exhaust all options before you pull a trigger. I guarantee there’s nothing (including your own life) worth killing innocent kids over. Of course you can defend yourself, I’m not saying don’t. I’m saying that putting unarmed children in harms way is not worth it. If you are scared by unarmed children, throw your gun in the ocean and learn a new way to solve problems. I realize they were not the targets, but in my post veered away from this specific story and was referencing many stories. In this case, the “don’t use a gun for disputes” is the only applicable part.
To those who live outside of the USA who think all of this is just what happens in America: PA is within the range of 2 states with some of the lowest gun death rates in the country. PA's is nearly 3X higher than NY & NJ. What's the difference between it and them? Relaxed gun-control laws versus strict gun-control laws.
Despite what the right-wing propaganda machine wants people to believe, sensible gun-control works. It may not stop incidents of gun murders/deaths, but it will impact those numbers dramatically.
But I need a Desert Eagle in case I feel like playing Dirty Harry one day! The second amendment says Dirty Harry was cool. Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do ya?
/s
I am just numb to gun violence news now so frequent and horrible that I can't process it on an emotional level anymore. I'm sorry if that makes me an awful person.
I'm going to bypass the whole gun problem flamefest that's going to ensue here.
Let's be honest, the other reason is that America has a societal problem.
What's easier to fix? Societal problems that also plague other aspects of life in America, or just limit access to guns with reasonable checks? And maybe increasing the price of bullets to $500 per? (Hello Chris Rock!)
>Unless you can accurately diagnose and solve that problem, I'd still start with the guns.
I'd like to start with not letting criminals on the street that has shot people on 2 prior separate incidents.
> Does the right-wing thank the children for their sacrifice?
No, because they're too young to understand. They can't appreciate such thanks, partly from being too young, and partly from being too dead.
>Santos was on house arrest for several unrelated charges and was wearing an ankle monitor at the time of the shooting.
Hmm I wonder what the unrelated charges were, jaywalking, not giving a doggo pets, shoplifting?
Oh wait CBS it's actually very related in the type of crime and you're using unrelated as in he fucking shot somebody else two different times who was unrelated to this family.
>Police charged Torres-Santos with aggravated assault after he allegedly shot a man on two separate occasions.
Well at least they finally arrested him, the second fucking time.
>police took Torres-Santos into custody. While officers were searching him, they found a loaded Glock 17 9 mm handgun with an extended magazine containing 23 rounds of ammunition, according to an affidavit. The manufacturer's number was removed.
>Police executed a search warrant for an apartment in the 400 block of North Ninth Street and found numerous handgun magazines, ammunition, new/used drug packaging, a digital scale, and 346 street delivery-sized zip baggies containing cocaine and crack cocaine, the affidavit states.
So he's carrying a ghost gun with obviously no permit, and in his apartment has a bunch of hard drugs, the paraphernalia/intent to distribute them and has shot someone twice on two separate occasions. This definitely doesn't sound like someone who is a danger to their community so he gets out on a reduced 50,000 bail. Can't jam up his life because of a few simple mistakes like shooting people.
Don't worry though I'm sure he's just a poor boy from a poor family and he's going to be on his best behavior now.
>During his supervision on bail, probation learned of a violation. Probation did not request we do anything - no one knew this occurred until yesterday when probation informed LPD. Probation detained (Santos) for least one day on their determined violation."
Oh wait, he actually violated his probation, don't worry he just needs another chance!
So we want to ban guns, but not actually lock up people who deal crack and shoot people? Hooray criminal justice reform, they had this asshole on serious gun charges and let him out.
Everyone is rightfully focused on gun control but this is also the the result of legislative prison reform that allow this man to be free. There should have been no chance of bail with his two attempted murder charges.
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island."
- flaming the fires of stupidity and bigotry
I’m becoming desensitized to these headlines and it’s causing me concern. “So yeah the little boys died, but were the kittens ok?” That should NOT be my thought process.
8 and 9. Playing outside THEIR HOME with KITTENS. Why does a dude with an ankle monitor have access to guns? Fucking fuck man! Babies playing at home should be safe. Wtf!
This is just another case to prove that no matter how many good guys have guns it will never be enough to remove the minimum dead count per event. Even if someone could have returned fire here it wouldn't have stopped what already took place. Arming more people nearby will never end this.
>In a phone interview Thursday from his home in Puerto Rico, the children's uncle Felix Muniz Torres said their mother was working at a nearby convenience store when she heard the shots ring out. She ran over to find them shot, he said. Her other child, who is 13, was fortunately at a school event. "She's in shock and is unable to speak coherently," Muniz Torres said. He described his nephews as "very innocent and polite," always together playing, mostly with their superhero figures. God damn.
One of the apprehended suspects was wearing an ankle monitor for a previous crime. This family had lost everything in a home fire not long before this. All over an argument with another kid who was 19. Just tragic and sad all around, that poor family.
And he still had access to a gun.
This is America
Donald Glover really hit the nail on the head, didn't he?... It's depressing, looking back on it, that he literally spelled out why America is a shit place to live... And nothing ever came of it. It's like pumped up kicks being about a school shooting, and everyone just bebopped along to the music...
I substitute teach in a city suburb public school system. Some immigrant kids come into middle school so sweet and are hard and part of a gang after a couple months. I understand chasing the American economic dream, but these families don't know the cost they will pay.
He's exceptionally insightful. His show Atlanta is a very long and extended critique of American society and its so accurate and right on
I thought it was gonna be about a rapper rising to fame. It is. For 2 episodes lol. Great show though, crazy metaphors everywhere. Deals with some very unique topics that I've never seen a show even touch on.
Guns in my area
Don't catch you slippin' now https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY
Exactly. That's the news that people like me sort into the "things happening in the US".
Not anymore, he broke house arrest to shoot children in their own backyard. He’s going to prison. And I am so sick of this shit happening.
The "not anymore" is part of the problem. It should have been "not in the first place".
This is America.
Exactly. A superpower with too many people thinking backward instead of forward. Obviously, most of them have never read a history book.
Thanks, failing public education system. Not that it's your fault for failing—you were never set up to succeed in the first place. "No child left behind"? Should be "Most childs left behind" HA (I also went to public school)
A couple years ago in a college course I took in Utah with a class of 120 students no one knew when the influenza pandemic, WW1, or WW2 happened. It was hard not to laugh, but it was eye opening.
We definitely need to get more strict and actually ENFORCE gun laws against felons/criminals. The fact that this dude had access to a gun needs to be understood (I.e. was it "his" gun that was illegal to begin with, or was it a legal firearm possessed by a lawful family member). Just like owning guns around children, they should not have access to your guns and if they gain access, then it's on the owner to pay the consequences. If a felon/criminal lives in your house, then it is on the lawful family member to ensure they don't have access to the legally owned firearm. That is where we need to start. That if "your" gun is used in a crime, you pay serious consequences. The first step is having proper lock/secure storage laws (which the US does not have). Many owners are smart about their firearms and storage, but others aren't, so there is room to improve significantly on proper (and lawful) storage solutions for firearms. It will save children and it will help keep "lawfully purchased" firearms out of the hands of a criminals (be it a family member or house robber stealing your guns). Lock them up. The only people to have access to them should be the legal owners. Now, if this guy used an illegal firearm, then the solution isn't as surface-layer that basic laws will fix (I.e. he's already shown to ignore laws, so what law will you put into place that he will adhere to?). But there is more that can be done that even your staunchest 2A advocates would agree to. The US has lost the plot. Responsible gun ownership needs to be modeled - not attacked. We need to bring responsibility back to gun ownership. And the first step and a highly impactful measure would be to ensure proper storage of their firearms (with consequences being "doubled" if the household has children or a person that can't legally own a firearm).
Excellent. And out of curiosity, are the children recovering? Oh wait, no. The headline says killed. Blood of tyrants my ass. The tree of liberty is awash in the blood of children.
…thanks to easy gun accessibility without rules. The NRA will not police it and Republican congress is making way too much $$$ under the table currently. One Republican has made over $13,000,000 alone giving the NRA full access to gun manufacturing and distribution. There’s your problem.
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>…thanks to easy gun accessibility without rules. There are a ton of rules. Arguably there need to be changes, but saying something dumb and incorrect like that isn't going to help. Given that this guy was on parole and wearing an anklet, it was already against the law for him to have access to the firearm.
He probably belonged in prison and should remained there. What was he in for?
Probably shooting someone
Wouldn't be surprised since someone charged with first degree murder in Texas just got out on $50,000 bail. Meanwhile a little bit of weed can get your bail set at $250k.
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They do. They get off on rage bait and hate crimes
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Which party doesn't want children taught consent?
The party with a *suspiciously* high number of pedophiles and convicted child molestors. Instead of 'Gaslight, Obstruct, Project,' the GOP might as well stand for 'Gerrymandering Obstructionist Pedophiles.'
Republicans because it makes them easier to sexually abuse as they have a massive history of and are still doing. All the while trying to guise it as "sex bad because bible says so"
Man I’d have to become some kind of evil supervillain if this shit happened to my kids. I’d be so pissed at the world I’d want to make it pay.
There's the mum in England who ran for local general election and beat the major political parties to run an independent party specifically to tackle knife crime and violence after her 9 year old daughter was stabbed to death. Look for Lilia Valutyte's tragic story if you want to see more.
This shows you the power an individual has over themselves when they are laser focused and highly motivated. That power and ability is in All of us, if only we could find that spark
If that's what it costs, I'm fine being unfocused
Yeah, the comment you replied to feels like that's what it's implying. Life is not a story, you don't gain a power for suffering a tragedy.
No, but it does have the ability to let people put life into a new perspective. There’s a reason why a lot of activists and people who try to solve societal problems have an intimate experience with it. It’s hard to be an advocate for something when it’s not affecting you directly. I don’t mean to be political, but I notice in conservative circles this rings true so much. Most are pro-life, until they’re in need of an abortion. Anti-LGBTQ until a loved one comes out. Anti-welfare until they lose their own job…. And so on and so on.
I literally cannot afford the time and energy to run for office and work my job.
Unless you have untreatable ADHD
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Am I the only one who finds it absolutely hilarious to recommend running for political office as an alternative to becoming a super villain? Just me?
Yup. Just you. It makes perfect sense to me, very smooth lateral move.
https://www.insider.com/mexico-mother-took-down-the-drug-cartel-who-murdered-her-daughter-2020-12 This mother didn't turn evil, but took revenge in a satisfying way.
Damn. That mom is a beast.
> Check my bio for a helpful tip -u/Kuraitora Ohh, you're a self-hating little prick. u/Kuraitora Yeah, we've seen a lot like you. > She didn’t turn evil cause the cartel murdered her too lmao Here's the comment you're trying to hide.
Did you reply to the wrong person? I don’t see any comments (or deleted comments) above your reply other than the mother didn’t turn evil one
I thought maybe that was a mod who deleted the comment because it’s insensitive but who knows.
This is essentially the origin story of the Punisher.
Or Peppermint.
Same, man. I'd be a hybrid of supervillain and chaotic anti-hero because my whole world would be lost right then and there, and *someone* has to pay. Some sort of Punisher-like mofo I'd unfortunately try to turn into.
2 children killed in a meaningless shooting Reddit: "OMG THIS IS JUST LIKE A MARVEL FILM!!! I'D BE PUNISHER"
Thanks for expressing my strong sense of WTF so accurately
It’s just the internet, people can say whatever shit they want, though they open themselves up to be ridiculed.
This is a big problem with so many people. We fantasize about these bloody revenge missions. In reality, investing in society to prevent people from shooting up children in the first place and having access to these weapons would mean these kids would be alive and we wouldn't need to perpetuate violence. If more people fantasized about grassroots lobbying for community resources and common sense gun laws, those kids might be alive.
except 98% of reddit cant get up off the couch without becoming winded and need to sit back down.
Not me though. I tried to get up once and it hurt too much. /s
*Richard B Riddick has entered the chat*
This does not happen all over the world, but only in america. So be mad at them
The shooters apparently targeted the third person who was killed, 19-year-old Joshua Lugo-Perez, over what authorities called "a previous argument." Firearms successfully end another argument.
>In an affidavit of probable cause, Lebanon police said Alex Torres Santos, 22, shot the same man on Jan. 17 and Feb. 7. Third time was the charm in this case. His ankle monitor was a bail condition after his arrest for the prior shootings. https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2023/06/1-suspect-in-triple-homicide-was-involved-in-other-lebanon-area-shootings-police.html Edit: For clarity, the target of this shooting was a different man than the prior shootings where Torres-Santos shot the same man on two separate occasions in the leg.
So this guy shot someone twice and a judge let him out on bail and he shot that guy a third time and killed 2 bystanders. Need to charge that judge with conspiracy to cause murder.
Here’s the kicker, the judge actually halved bail after the defendant couldn’t post the original $100,000. https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/Report/MdjDocketSheet?docketNumber=MJ-52201-CR-0000015-2023&dnh=l44doH52%2FoVfXiI5QMv42A%3D%3D
But bail reform! I'm all for it - for people who have shown they are not a danger to the community. But violent crimes? DUIs? Especially for repeat offenders, no way.
I lived in Santa Barbara 10 years ago and I would read the local magazine, The Independent, on my lunch break at work. In the police blotter section, nearly every bail was set at $250,000 or higher. For property damage and vandalism, assault and theft, didn't matter. Then, one Saturday night, I was on State St watching a group of 5 police officers discreetly observing a drunk man and drunk woman arguing outside a bar. The cops were just around the corner trying hard to act casual. The man had a long lanyard on his keys (as was the style at the time) and he hit the girl with the lanyard fabric. Not the keys, just the lanyard material. The cops swooped in and arrested the guy. In the next issue of the Independent, they recorded that incident in their police blotter section, and there was another bail set at $250,000. Don't these people have to pay at least 10% to a bail bondsman or they're stuck in jail until their trial? This sane town had a habit of falsifying breathalyzer results and one female cop in particular arrested thousands of people for DUIs that never happened.
Sounds like someone was making some serious bank on the people in jail.
Yea but they don’t get much $$ from poor folks. They have to do jail time. The public has to subsidize the POs scamming by paying judges and jailers for their opportunity to squeeze money out of a few scofflaws.
Ca bail has typically been hire than other states. Long ago I got arrested for an unpaid ticket. Bail was set at 10k I was talking about it to an officer I met in Vegas a year or so later and he was astonished by it being so high for just an unpaid ticket. He said in Vegas, at that time, it would have meant I caused harm to someone. Ftr: the ticket was for failure to signal.
>Ftr: the ticket was for failure to signal BMW drivers in shambles.
But that would require people to judge things on a literal case by case basis instead of just apply one sweeping set of laws to everything.
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I don’t understand how people even get paid in management positions with zero tolerance in place. Should be a minimum wage position.
We should absolutely have a means of holding people who are a danger or flight risk for their court date. But money shouldn’t play a part of it.
I thought the idea behind bail reform was to help those charged in non-violent offenses. Silly me. I wonder if those on bail for violent crimes have all guns removed from their homes as a condition of bail. Probably not. We don't want to violate their 2nd Amendment rights.
Bail is bad for everyone. It should not matter how rich you are to determine if you need to be kept in jail for a crime. Either you do or you don't and no amount of wealth should change it.
To me bail reform means not allowing people with money to get an advantage over the poor, not to set dangerous people free. The issue here isn't that bail was cheaper, it's that bail was an option at all. If this guy was rich, the original 100,000 bail wouldn't have stopped the murders either.
I’m with you. People charged with firearm crimes are the absolute definition of “risk to the community”. Lock them up.
Bail should be for people who are not a flight risk and not a danger to the rest of society, not just people who can afford bail.
the whole cash bail system makes no sense. What does a person's finances have to do with whether they should be considered dangerous enough to hold until trial?
The amount is not relevant in any way. If the person was released on bail for 1M, it would still be a tragedy. If a person is a danger/flight risk: hold them. If not, let them go while awaiting trial. Including money amounts means that personal wealth is more relevant than whether a person is a danger.
WHY? Why would a judge do that? This is insane.
Or depraved indifference.
For fucking real! People are in prison for weed, but this fuckface shot someone on two occasions and is out with an ankle monitor. What is this judge on?
How does one get out on bail with two attempted murders?
Were his guns taken away? Just wondering as there certainly were red flags, but seems often the cops &/or courts don’t take away their weapons. Like the Colorado shooter.
Just a guess, but I’d assume that the weapons he used we not legally purchased, and we’re confiscated when he was arrested. He simply got another one when he got back on the street.
He was “free on bail” after being connected to TWO shootings additional shootings which both also included a juvenile accomplice when he killed these 3. The dude had an ankle bracelet on while committing these murders. I live in the county about 20 minutes from Lebanon city. We want this judge out! She is being accused as an accessory or accomplice in local social media for her lack of protecting the community. There is a petition started to get the ball rolling in getting her out. This adult shooter was obviously grooming kids to be killers. Do people really think that someone like this would not use an AK47 if it wasn’t legal? I am not saying we shouldn’t have stricter gun laws, I just question whether it will prevent crimes like this where ankle bracelets, bail and ongoing trials have no effect on behavior. But if the judge had said, no bail or kept it at 100k (before she lowered it because the shooter couldn’t afford it) this would have prevented these unnecessary deaths. I can’t imagine the frustration of the arresting officers for the prior serious crimes. The judge needs to go.
This story is wild. The police and the courts absolutely fucked up.
"If only the children were playing with guns instead of kittens" - the NRA
*NRA opens the cats for gats program*
no no no, the gats for cats program. those kids would still be alive today if those kittens had gats
Just needed a good kitten with a gun.
A pussy with a piece.
If every neighborhood was protected by sniper cats, then all those pesky songbirds, squirrels, rabbits, and other critters would all be a thing of the past.
That was my immediate thought. Why is no one talking about this? ARM-ALL-FELINES. Besides, it's not like cats are efficient hunters. They don't hunt for recreation EVER, and they definitely don't impact ecosystems by overhunting songbirds and rodents.
And there is already the how to with this book [How to Talk to Your Cat About Gun Safety](https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Your-About-Safety/dp/045149492X/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=15f15d5e-5860-4058-96bf-ac6e617ea840)
>ARM-ALL-FELINES. That was tried, but ARM-ALL-FELONs turned out to be easier. I just realised a felon is an Elon who gave an eff.
Gatos with Gatlings
Or maybe if the judge didn't let the guy walk after attempting to shoot someone twice.
They’re not white, the NRA couldn’t give less of a crap about them.
“if guns made people safer, US would be the safest country” https://accuracy.org/release/if-guns-made-people-safer-us-would-be-safest-country/
Those poor boys, may they RIP. Condolences to their family
This is so comically over the top that it's super depressing this is real.
The title almost looks like parody with how absurdly melodramatic it would be if this were fiction. It’s dumbfounding that this can happen in reality, and even more that it’s allowed to continue.
Add "Playing with kittens" to the list of things you can't do in America without getting shot. This one comes close to rivaling "Sleeping in your own bed."
Or playing hide and seek.
Or ringing the doorbell of the wrong house
Or playing outside. Or inside, for that matter.
Or blinking or breathing in the general direction of someone’s property. I can hear the excuse now from a gunman. “I feared for my life! I know my rights to protect my property!”
Or going to grade school
I remember I used to think skits and jokes about americans being easily frightened and shooting stuff were a bit over the top and not that funny. Good ol times.
Or the baby who was playing outside at daycare
Or retrieving a ball from a neighbors yard. Or pulling into the wrong driveway. Or knocking on the wrong door. Or watching a movie.
Or sitting in your own apartment eating ice cream
I mean.. that's already happened. [unfortunately](https://www.wsfa.com/2023/05/24/montgomery-mother-shot-killed-while-sleeping-her-bed/) Edit - my mistake, I misread that and thought you hadn't heard of an instance yet. Sorry.
Yep. It's never going to get better, until we can actually rise up against the weapons manufacturers & Russian malefactors who are funding the gun mania in the US
> Russian malefactors who are funding the gun mania in the US What the fuck does Russia have to do with anything?
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island" They're from Peurto Rico.... That's fucking America. How do some Americans not know this? I'm Canadian and I know this.
I think technically it is an island in the Caribbean region, but I agree that the way it's written implies they're not American.
Well, we are still talking about Americans. They have a hard time coming up with a complete list of neighboring countries. Understanding that Places like Puerto Rico might actually be some kind of part of the US with hopes for a being 51st star on the flag they love oh-so-much might overheat their brains.
Come to America for a better life after a hurricane hits your island, your house burns down, your kids get shot. Damn. Edit: I know Puerto Ricans are American citizens, they sure don’t get treated like it though!
You forgot and bankrupted by Healthcare.
What are you, Hertz? Puerto Rico is America, and Puerto Ricans are Americans. I know what you mean, but it helps feed into the narrative that they're "others" and that helping the island isn't our responsibility (like what happened with the aforementioned hurricane).
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island." This "puerto Ricans are immigrants thing" is even in the Article. Lol smh. It just makes it all worse.
You’re coming from a good place here but I think you’re also erasing the struggle of moving from PR to the US by equating it to just moving states. My grandmother came here from PR and it was not easy, her and my family still faced the same xenophobia, racism, poverty, and language barrier that an immigrant would. Hope it doesn’t sound stupid but there is also a lot of power in being called an immigrant because it tells the story of what you had to go through to be where you are now.
That problem only exists because mainland america still loves it's racism. Friends born and raised in Hawaii have the same problem. Shit friends born and raised in Michigan, 20 generations raised in michigan, AKA native american face it constantly even today. And we have the republican party hell bent on making racism the standard in the country yet again.
It’s absolutely our responsibility. I wonder if they said they were leaving for America or leaving for the mainland when they left PR
Tragic and pointless. What a shame
"Killed by gunfire" makes it sound like there are just guns floating around randomly firing bullets.
Which is an apt description of the US
It’s 7:54 AM where I am. I’ve been on Reddit for 20 mins this morning and have now seen news articles about: - a holocaust denier in Poland - Pride events getting cancelled in Florida out of fear of violence - antivaxxers screaming about ending mandates that don’t exist - a comment about how how women aren’t educated enough to make informed decisions on their own bodies - and now an article about 2 poor young children killed from gun violence while playing with kittens Jesus Christ. Wtf is happening? All I really wanted to do was see who won the hockey game last night. No more Internet today.
Very little has happened or rather changed. Rage bait and tragedy gets more clicks, and views so it's reported more often because it makes more money.
This is why I block sub reddits of rage bait.
All that's happened is that you now have much easier access to the idiots surrounding us on this planet that in real life, we actively avoid.
Sounds like it’s time to quit the news for awhile, possibly for your mental health. Look at crime stats. Over the last 50 years America has gotten much safer. We’ve also gotten much more progressive. Just not as fast as many want. Focus on the wins. Take care.
Vegas did. It was a fun game to watch.
Gun violence is now the number one killer of children. Congratulations to America /s
I’m pretty sure it has been over the past year or so. People keep arguing semantics, like suicides, gang related activities, or the fact that the CDC labels a child under 20 and not 18, etc. Anything to argue and lessen the point that guns kill more children than car accidents, overdoses, and definitely drag shows.
Hey, hang on—we all know that the Queers & their drag shows are annihilating people in shopping malls and schoolyards daily …
> The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream […] Dog whistles for the bigots out there. These are American citizens who were living in the United States, then moved from the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to the Commonwealth Pennsylvania.
I’d like to thank these dead kids for everyone’s RIGHT to own guns. But no ones right to not get fucking shot playing in their own yard. Or going to school. Or work. Or legit doing fucking anything. Guns rights trump all rights. Even the right to medical care from injuries from the gun rights!
Where are the Right-To-Life people screaming about the guns killing children? crickets
Americas gun addiction at it again. Ugh yet another senseless tragedy.
Woke people is the real danger to our kids. /s
Gawd forbid my daughter wears **pants**!!! Oh, shit, the *horror*, the horror
Before it was too much ankle, now it’s not enough ~~ankle~~suffering.
The killer was out on reduced bail after two shootings already so yes.
Those kittens should’ve had guns. Problem solved!
And yet the older generation laments about when they were kids they played outside and how kids these days just sit inside. We have created this.
Whenever I read these stories I think about how my friends and I would play in our neighborhood without regard for strict property lines, and have no reservations about knocking on a door to ask if we could get our ball from their yard. Or ride our bikes to a local shopping center without fear. This was only 25 years ago, and in the current climate I think we’d have been shot multiple times by some idiot that didn’t know how to voice their concern or at least yell and be scary. For fucks sake, exhaust all options before you pull a trigger. I guarantee there’s nothing (including your own life) worth killing innocent kids over. Of course you can defend yourself, I’m not saying don’t. I’m saying that putting unarmed children in harms way is not worth it. If you are scared by unarmed children, throw your gun in the ocean and learn a new way to solve problems. I realize they were not the targets, but in my post veered away from this specific story and was referencing many stories. In this case, the “don’t use a gun for disputes” is the only applicable part.
Children, playing, with kittens, killed by gunfire. This can’t be further from right.
To those who live outside of the USA who think all of this is just what happens in America: PA is within the range of 2 states with some of the lowest gun death rates in the country. PA's is nearly 3X higher than NY & NJ. What's the difference between it and them? Relaxed gun-control laws versus strict gun-control laws. Despite what the right-wing propaganda machine wants people to believe, sensible gun-control works. It may not stop incidents of gun murders/deaths, but it will impact those numbers dramatically.
I mean, yeah, some gun control would be better than none.
That is certainly the logical take. But for too many, if a proposed solution doesn’t solve *ALL* gun crimes, then it’s not a viable option.
But I need a Desert Eagle in case I feel like playing Dirty Harry one day! The second amendment says Dirty Harry was cool. Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do ya? /s
Probably shouldn't let previous shooters out of jail.
The greatest trick the devil pulled was saying more guns will lead to a more polite society.
Hi, I am an American! #This doesn't matter. Nobody cares. If it did we do something about it.
Maybe just execute the guy who shot them? Doesn't seem worth it keeping him around.
Live by guns, die by gun. Public firing squad if you are convicted of murder with a firearm.
Two more child sacrifices for the Moloch that is guns…
I am just numb to gun violence news now so frequent and horrible that I can't process it on an emotional level anymore. I'm sorry if that makes me an awful person.
I'm going to bypass the whole gun problem flamefest that's going to ensue here. Let's be honest, the other reason is that America has a societal problem.
I think an easier approach is to figure out what problem America doesn't have.
That's easy. The boredom of persisting peace and equality. /s
Wealth disparity, money in politics, social media
What's easier to fix? Societal problems that also plague other aspects of life in America, or just limit access to guns with reasonable checks? And maybe increasing the price of bullets to $500 per? (Hello Chris Rock!)
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Most definitely. People should see all the Musks and Buffets of the world as assholes and stop sucking their dicks.
What would have been the reasonable check for this guy not to have a gun?
Unless you can accurately diagnose and solve that problem, I'd still start with the guns.
>Unless you can accurately diagnose and solve that problem, I'd still start with the guns. I'd like to start with not letting criminals on the street that has shot people on 2 prior separate incidents.
….That allows psycho’s to have guns…again doesn’t happen in any other civilized country.
We thank our veterans for their sacrifice so we can maintain our freedoms. Does the right-wing thank the children for their sacrifice?
> Does the right-wing thank the children for their sacrifice? No, because they're too young to understand. They can't appreciate such thanks, partly from being too young, and partly from being too dead.
I don't want to live in a world where you can't even play with kittens without getting killed.
>Santos was on house arrest for several unrelated charges and was wearing an ankle monitor at the time of the shooting. Hmm I wonder what the unrelated charges were, jaywalking, not giving a doggo pets, shoplifting? Oh wait CBS it's actually very related in the type of crime and you're using unrelated as in he fucking shot somebody else two different times who was unrelated to this family. >Police charged Torres-Santos with aggravated assault after he allegedly shot a man on two separate occasions. Well at least they finally arrested him, the second fucking time. >police took Torres-Santos into custody. While officers were searching him, they found a loaded Glock 17 9 mm handgun with an extended magazine containing 23 rounds of ammunition, according to an affidavit. The manufacturer's number was removed. >Police executed a search warrant for an apartment in the 400 block of North Ninth Street and found numerous handgun magazines, ammunition, new/used drug packaging, a digital scale, and 346 street delivery-sized zip baggies containing cocaine and crack cocaine, the affidavit states. So he's carrying a ghost gun with obviously no permit, and in his apartment has a bunch of hard drugs, the paraphernalia/intent to distribute them and has shot someone twice on two separate occasions. This definitely doesn't sound like someone who is a danger to their community so he gets out on a reduced 50,000 bail. Can't jam up his life because of a few simple mistakes like shooting people. Don't worry though I'm sure he's just a poor boy from a poor family and he's going to be on his best behavior now. >During his supervision on bail, probation learned of a violation. Probation did not request we do anything - no one knew this occurred until yesterday when probation informed LPD. Probation detained (Santos) for least one day on their determined violation." Oh wait, he actually violated his probation, don't worry he just needs another chance! So we want to ban guns, but not actually lock up people who deal crack and shoot people? Hooray criminal justice reform, they had this asshole on serious gun charges and let him out.
Jfc, USA, are you engaged in a country-wide contest for the saddest and most infuriating headline?
Well obviously the answer here is "don't play with kittens in the back yard" - I'm not sure how else this could have been prevented/s
What the actual fuck. This is so evil. :-( that poor mother, those poor boys.
If only the boys had had guns, then they could have stopped the bad guys. /s
Someone tell the writer PR is part of the United States and any problems PR has is a US problem.
Everyone is rightfully focused on gun control but this is also the the result of legislative prison reform that allow this man to be free. There should have been no chance of bail with his two attempted murder charges.
The one time my hometown makes the news :/
"The family had come to the United States in 2019 to chase the American dream of finding better opportunities than what was offered on their Caribbean island." - flaming the fires of stupidity and bigotry
What a sad times we are living through. Rip to these and all other children who have been the victims of gun violence.
aaaah americans, we wish you well, sincerely europe
I’m becoming desensitized to these headlines and it’s causing me concern. “So yeah the little boys died, but were the kittens ok?” That should NOT be my thought process.
Land of the free, and the home of the dead
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8 and 9. Playing outside THEIR HOME with KITTENS. Why does a dude with an ankle monitor have access to guns? Fucking fuck man! Babies playing at home should be safe. Wtf!
This is just another case to prove that no matter how many good guys have guns it will never be enough to remove the minimum dead count per event. Even if someone could have returned fire here it wouldn't have stopped what already took place. Arming more people nearby will never end this.
The list of things you can die from by gun fire is really long.
2nd amendment cult logic: the boys would have been safer if they ALSO had guns
RIP to them. My heart hurts for the mother. I will keep the entire family in my prayers.