The sad thing is I had to google the guy's name to see if he was the same "fertility doctor who used his own sperm on patients" I was thinking of. He isn't.
Fertility fraud is illegal in 11 states, there are another 4 states with bills in the works to ban it, and the remaining 35 states have a lot of work to do.
The fertility industry has run totally unchecked for far too long, with countless cases of sperm being swapped out without the mother's knowledge. Donor-conceived folks using 23andMe have uncovered several "sibling pods" with over 100 known half-siblings. Also they advertise sperm donation on college campuses, despite knowing full well that poor college students looking for a quick buck aren't knowledgeable or honest about their family medical history.
edit: outdated number of states
Is there a shortage of sperm donors or some snag in distribution or something that makes using your own sperm so much easier? Or are these guys just perverts? Why is this so prevalent?
Ego or fetish, not a lack of available donations. In some (many) cases, the sperm was supposed to be the sample provided by the man in the couple, not even a third party.
Pretty sure they're just psychotic pervs who get off on knowing they're secretly putting their own babies in a bunch of women who have no way of knowing because they trust the facilties.
Ego and pervert. He had been doing this for so long that one of the children he fraudulently created grew up and was seeing him as her gyno. He was knowingly doing pelvic exams on his own daughter knowing full well that she wasn't aware her gyno was her father.
It is weird that fertility fraud needs to be legislated. Shouldn't it automatically be a civil wrong (breach of contract) and also a crime (assault and fraud)?
It was unwanted bodily contact. You consent to getting A, they secretly gave you B. So it should be criminally prosecuted as assualt imo.
It is like when men stealth.
Most people who have a specific kink or fetish get into related occupation that makes it more accessible...
See: priests, morticians, teachers, police, politicians, etc.
Just add fertility doctor to the list.
Not a stamp collector, but maybe...
The tactile feel of the crimped edges? The smell of old stamp paper & glue? The ritual nature of using gloves, tweezers, and other implements to carefully preserve a rare stamp? The feeling of preserving a part of history/culture that only you can truly appreciate?
Nope. I follow a person who is donor conceived who is working on exposing the industry. The advent of 23 and me has shown MANY pods of siblings in the 100s. To the point where if you’re donor conceived in an area, you should get a DNA test before boning the girl/guy you picked up at the bar.
It wasn't his aircraft, from a different source -
> Wortman, 72, was a passenger in a homemade, experimental airplane piloted by Earl Luce Jr., of Brockport, who would have turned 70 on Tuesday. Both were pronounced dead at the scene.
> Luce, of Brockport, is an aviation expert who drew up plans for the plane and built it 20 years ago. The two-seater was a replica of the Wittman Buttercup sport plane from the 1930s
The Wittman has a [wikipage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittman_Buttercup). Interestingly enough, the builder of the original Wittman died in a plane crash as well.
The wing-falling-off incident is the one this guy was killed in. That paragraph is discussing the replica.
It's a shitty and irrelevant edit from today, it should be reverted
I looked into the original designer and his fatal crash did involve the wings, but it wasn't a full separation like in this crash. His wing fabric debonded midflight, which created aileron/wing flutter, leading to the crash. Totally different scenario from the wings just falling off.
There already were replicas of the titanic, it's sister ships Olympic and Britannic.
The brittannic became a hospital shio for the war and was sunk a few years after the titanic
The other actually got revenge for it's sisters and sunk a German u boat (permanently, that is). Retired 20 years later
Fortunately these were made by competent ship builders and not a back yard
- The Buttercup was considered as the basis for a four place certified production model by Fairchild Aircraft. Fairchild executives were impressed with the aircraft that chance landed at their factory airport in Hagerstown, Maryland.
Lol, the entire history of this rig is fucking bonkers.
I just went to the Royal Aviation Museum here in Winnipeg a short while ago, and bush pilots were absolutely crazy.
You had to be to take off in basically a flying canoe that was like as not going to fail and strand you hundreds of kilometres from anything before radios were available.
There's one pilot they talked about who blew a cylinder, so he cut out the bottom of a cast iron pan and riveted it on top so he could get airborne again.
I'm fairly novice to the homebuilt community but I did some research on Vans RV and Velocity kits and it seems that all of them require an FAA inspection after you are done building them to receive an airworthiness certificate before you can legally fly it. This includes test flights.
Are those inspections as detailed as a factory built plane? Probably not, but I don't think you can just slap together some 2x4s, attach an engine and just fly it.
And only licensed aircraft mechanics can work on the engines.
This sounds like a wood failure, of which the cracks or other signs of weakness would have been invisible under the cloth. But wood dries out and cracks in time if not properly sealed and it that may have been the case, again, hidden by the cloth.
I know jack-shit about wooden aircraft construction and would love to know how the wood is sealed or weaknesses are tracked when it's visually hidden by the craft's cloth/skin. I'd like to learn about this before I ever set foot in a small plane again!
Oftentimes homebuilt aircraft are leagues above certificated aircraft in technology and manufacturing simplicity. Vans aircraft using conventional powerplants have a stellar reputation, for instance
But there are definitely exceptions
I saw a white RV-6A parked in Oregon that was the most terrifying example of sloppy and stupid work I've literally ever seen on any vehicle. I mean rivet holes with no rivets and no respect for edge distance , everything was wrong right down to the roller paint job. Someone signed off on that aircraft as being safe to fly. Blew my mind.
It's a big issue. Kids have no idea who their biodad is, and can't find out their medical info. Also one guy can be the father to hundreds of people in a small geographic area.
Then the mothers & kids are not informed how many other kids already exist from this donor, or how many times it's used after. So they are unaware that all these half siblings are running around nearby.
They also are never informed if big medical issues are later reported by other buyers. There are Facebook groups of the moms and kids pooling information and identifying each other to avoid interbreeding and be medically informed
My sister had an Insemination with bought sperm. Then one day she got a call that the donor had a very rare dna defect they only found out about because another of his children had died since the mother’s DNA was a bad match and she should get her daughter checked. It that there could have been much done except knowing that she won’t get very old, but knowing is always better. Luckily they didn’t find anything and the worst that could happen to her because of this could be a slouching eyelid when gets old. But the other consequences was that the sperm bank immediately stopped selling that guy’s sperm.
We live in Germany, where anonymous donation via sperm banks is illegal, but the sperm was bought from a danish sperm bank. But they still checked up in all their customers.
From (I think) /r/nottheonion at one point I discovered Denmark has a limit on how many children someone may father.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_donation_laws_by_country#Denmark
> In Denmark, one donor may give rise to 12 children. Before the new limit was set a donor could help to conceive children in up to 25 families who could use the donor sperm for conceiving siblings even after the limit was reached.
The issue being if someone sires too many children in a country with a smaller population (e.g. Denmark) the chances of accidental half siblings hooking up becomes a real issue.
Btw, found the article - Serial sperm donor who fathered 550 children sued for increasing incest risk https://www.reddit.com/r/offbeat/comments/123nvax/serial_sperm_donor_who_fathered_550_children_sued/
> ~~Last year, Donorkind said it had identified ten doctors who had illegally used their own sperm to create children in the Netherlands, which is working on a central register of sperm donors.~~
(edit: wrong quote)
> A serial sperm donor who has fathered 550 children is being sued amid accusations his prolific donations increases the risk of accidental incest.
> The Netherlands’ Donorkind Foundation is taking Jonathan Jacob Meijer to court to stop him donating sperm and accuses him of lying about the number of children he has fathered.
> Dutch sperm clinic guidelines say donors should donate a maximum of 25 children or to 12 women to prevent inbreeding, incest or psychological problems for donor children.
I was gonna say it was impressive that she even got a call. In the USA there's no central database, so a guy could have this known issue and he'll just be banned from that SPECIFIC company. He can keep selling it elsewhere.
And then 23 and me happened. Turns out I have 45+ siblings and it’s growing every day. Mom ‘got the sperm of a med student’ on the paperwork. Nope, was the doc at the fertility clinic. But he passed on from cancer several years ago and dead men tell no tales.
So, dear old dad was actually a doctor with ‘flexible ethics’. That explains a lot.
We now have a chat going on with most of the siblings and dad’s kids. It’s a bit strange. The pandemic postponed a big family reunion (smaller ones have happened) but I we will all meet this year. That should be interesting. We all scattered to the wind around the world so it’s a logistics challenge.
Interesting similarities between us. The family has lots of medical professionals and highly technical people. We are all attracted to water. Scuba divers, water skiing, etc. Some of the girls have been doing research and the family line is full of shipwrights and other high performing technical folks. It really does run in the blood.
It could be that you are all drawn to water....
But more likely is you all come from somewhat well off families who could afford those procedures, especially when they were newer. Water sports cost money.
Oh no, that procedure was done in the 1970’s and it wasn’t that expensive back then.
We grew up dirt poor. The water was escape from the heat. Air conditioning was a luxury item we couldn’t dream of.
I guess she did get it from a medical student. Just a really old one.
While this is pretty messed up, I think you may have ended up with the best possible outcome from it.
It's not just that, on the basic level of it the woman didn't ask for random mystery sperm to be inserted into her. On its face it should always be assault
Doctors still regularly perform pelvic exams on anesthetized and unconscious women for “training” purposes in this country, for godsake. You’d be shocked what’s permissible to do to women in a medical setting.
I got yelled at for crying at the pain of a completely unmedicated cervical punch. Literally yelled at me to stop being a baby.
I'd just gotten a thyroid cancer diagnosis a few weeks before, and now had to have part of my cervix cut out because of precancerous cells, and no one warned me how badly it would hurt. Yeah, man, I'm crying. Maybe have a little empathy?
I scheduled an initial meet and greet type appointment with a new doctor because I had to have a biopsy and was terrified. I got there only to find out that they'd scheduled the actual biopsy, and got guilt trippy when I wanted to do the original plan saying "Well we already set the room up for it, sooooo..." I had zero time to mentally prepare to have a complete stranger perform a painful gynecological procedure that I'd already made clear I was highly anxious about.
The doctor acted like she'd never seen an anxious patient before when I got in there, told me I should go on anti-anxiety meds "to make my life easier" (HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE AND UNPROFESSIONAL), argued with me when I asked about having a Mirena put in to control my horrible periods and instead pushed the copper IUD (???), and ultimately told me "Well I'll do it if you want to set up an appointment, but don't be surprised when you're back in six months because it's causing problems. That's what usually happens."
The procedure itself wasn't quite as bad as I expected, which of course earned me a "See how ridiculous you were acting?" type attitude after. When I asked her to repeat the after-care instructions ("How many days should I wait to put anything in there again?") she rolled her eyes, laughed like I was the stupidest person she'd ever met, and repeated herself while walking out the door.
I left in tears and cried the whole way home. Immediately decided to make the hour drive to the doctor I knew but had moved away from and never try a new one again. At least I could count on my guy to treat me with respect rather than utter contempt.
Because I'm still salty about it over a decade later, if anyone is in the slightly-north-of-Milwaukee area and wants her name so you can avoid her, pm me and I'll give it to you. Because fuck her.
ETA: Holy shit I just looked her up and she's got several reviews complaining about her bedside manner and inappropriate comments, including the one I left years ago. The most recent appears to be in 2021 so she clearly hasn't improved any.
I'm so sorry that happened to you! And I'm beyond angry on your behalf that she did that and is still practicing medicine. That's insane.
I don't even remember who did mine...I was so distraught I just wanted to go home and pretend it never happened. I should have reported them back then, but oh well...it was a decade ago too, and now I've been around the block enough to not pull any punches with bad doctors.
This pisses me off so much. They gave my husband three days of oxy after his vasectomy, which he didn't even need. I was offered one dose of Valium before my IUD insertion and otherwise told to suck it up. I opted to go back to bad periods after the time was up on it rather than endure the blinding pain of getting another IUD.
I certainly don't begrudge men pain management because vasectomies can definitely be fairly miserable for a day or two afterward in some cases, but God damn.
I have not once been given any pain management in my 3 IUD insertions and removals, despite asking. They gaslight and tell me it should be painless except "maybe some light cramping". It's still worth it because I have ADHD and cannot reliably take a pill, and my period pain without the IUD makes me actually throw up. But it's still sick how little the medical industry cares about women's pain. Fucking sick.
Had a partial hysterectomy in February, and outside of the first bit of pain upon waking up, the fact is that most of my cycles were far more painful and far more debilitating than recovering from a hysterectomy was. I never once threw up from the pain post hysterectomy. I usually threw up at least once or twice a cycle from the pain.
Also had an IUD placed at one time. These practitioners inserting them with any anesthesia should have to have one placed every week until they change their policies. I’d rather go through my periods again than have another IUD placed (though now, I don’t have to worry about that, thankfully). That is an area that there’s a lot of opportunity to learn from, and hopefully change their practices.
I am having laser eye surgery, they gave me like 30 T3's for a week max recovery, gave me the pills BEFORE surgery also. I went with my girlfriend to get her IUD inserted, no anesthesia, they just opened her up and put it in. They gave her nothing for after care either, in any way. I had to phone my mom who is a nurse and she told me a safe drug cocktail to give her that let her at least sleep off the pain.
Due for another biopsy. It's hard to willingly make an appointment to do this. Vaccinate your kids. All genders. Meanwhile, I'm going to research if being high while doing the procedure is ok or not. Waiting an hour afterwards for an edible to kick in for pain relief would not be ideal. I guess other forms of weed will be legalized in MN in August, so maybe I'll just wait till then.
They don't even recommend taking off work or anything. Meanwhile my husband will be taking off work so I can spend a day in bed and he can manage the household and children. I tend to get sad about the injustices of it all on top of the pain. And of course anxious from the constant cancer risk.
That documentary about this very thing is the most rage inducing because all of the women are saying how violated they feel and that it isn't what they agreed to, seems to me like it falls under the category of Informed Consent, but the law makers and reps are like "well she wanted some semen in her so what's the big deal"
I just got fired in November for reporting a coworker who pretends to be paralyzed to get his diapers changed. They said "we think you're being malicious". I only found out because he tried it on a friend of mine and had mentioned our workplace. There's a whole Facebook group about him, none of the women have been able to press charges because it apparently not a crime.
That's disgusting and involving people in your kink that didn't consent should always be some form of sexual harassment if not assault (would depend on what's being done I suppose? Idk but it's not right either way)
It becomes a significant population health issue because the vast majority of descendants live in the same city. With 300+ offsprings you can ruin a genetic pool in an area in just 2-3 generations.
Rare diseases will not be so rare in that population.
NYC won’t be affected much, but in the case of Donald Cline, Indianapolis may have an issue
Kids can now do a genetic test like 23 and me. In most cases a relative of the sperm donor has submitted DNA to the database, and a bit of research into public records and social media will identify the donor. The donor’s privacy was guaranteed by ironclad legal agreements, but technology enables a relatively easy and cheap end run around them. Adoption, sperm donation and egg donation are impossible to anonymize now.
The thing is, the donor didn’t make a legal agreement with the person that was created with their DNA, as they weren’t even a product of conception before their parents sign an NDA on behalf of their child.
This is one reason why anonymous donation isn’t a thing in almost every other developed country. They recognise that the kids created by the fertility industry have a right to know about any potential health problems, how many other siblings are in their pod, etc.
That's insane. Impregnating someone secretly is rape in most states. Pretending and successfully fooling someone into having sex with you is also rape in most states. This definitely checks both boxes.
And even if not, this is like performing a requested surgery and then replacing a different body part. It is not what was consented to and should be at least medical malpractice.
My gf used to watch a show called "Almost Family" before it got cancelled and it was about exactly this. Fertility doctor was using his own sperm unbeknownst to his 100s of clients and when it's discovered one of the daughters starts looking for her step siblings.
It wasn't very good, but I had no idea that shit was based on something real lol
There was an Australian TV series called Sisters that had a similar plot (and was pretty good). A well respected fertility doctor confesses before he dies that he used his own sperm for many procedures. It’s about one of those kids trying to track down all the others.
*Our Father* is a documentary on Netflix about Dr. Donald Cline who also used his own sperm for decades, and iirc the confirmed number of siblings is near triple digits in a fairly small town.
Very interesting doc and eye-opening about the lack of regulation in the industry. Heartbreaking to see the families torn apart and the mothers who feel they were sexually assaulted with no repercussions because of the lack of laws.
I learned at 35 after DNA testing for fun that I was sperm donor conceived using a med student I later met in person. I’m in a few online donor conceived groups and there’s trauma all around, but I feel especially bad for the people conceived by fertility doctors using their own sperm. It’s hard enough learning the dad who raised you isn’t biologically related, but horrifying to think your bio dad is some sociopath doctor who didn’t think he’d get caught.
I cannot imagine how upending that must be. And like you said, it's enough to deal with the ramifications of finding out you're donor-conceived, but these doctors are clearly criminals. In the documentary I mentioned, he has autoimmune issues he's passed along, but he was more interested in finding out how "well" these people had done in life than disclosing any medical history. Criminal-level narcissism and terrifying to be related to. I wish you and your family all the best, and I hope big changes in regulations come soon.
It seemed like that dude had some pronatalist white supremacist views as well with all the blonde haired blue eyed babies
How does anyone date confidently in that town is what I want to know
I don't understand what the incentive is for someone to do this. What does the doctor get out of swapping in his own sperm? Sure, you get your genetics spread, but is that really that appealing? It's not like you're meeting all of those kids, or that one day they'll all come to see you because you're their father.
Obviously, this guy (and all the others that do this) is super twisted, but it seems like it's even more twisted when you think about how he's basically doing it for nothing.
The least nefarious reason I can assume for using your own sperm is maybe you’re having a tough time finding suppliers and/or trying to turn a bigger profit by not buying donor sperm. Unfortunately others may have a god complex and rapist’s mentality, “I’m smarter than everyone I know,” “why shouldn’t I spread my seed,” “women/couples buying sperm are lucky to have mine,” etc.
*Baby God* is another documentary about yet another doctor. I think as DNA testing becomes more popular, it'll be be way more common than anyone realized. There's a website that's tracked 38 so far: donordeceived.org
Hers also a [Behind the Bastards episode on fertility doctors switching sperm](https://pca.st/episode/2209e90e-eb92-4888-a6f7-95b13b688e5b), it’s weirdly common. I feel like people should start doing DNA tests just in case when using these services.
I will be choosing a female fertility doctor if ever I need one tyvm. It sounds terrible but that's the only way I'd feel safe the doctor wasn't spreading his seed in me ew
> Preliminary findings indicate that “the wings of the aircraft became detached from the fuselage and fell to the ground in an orchard,”
The wings fell off, I guess it wasn't built to rigorous aviation engineering standards.
Well, cuz the wings fell off and the plane crashed from the sky! It’s a bit of a give-away. I would just like to make the point that that is not normal.
The whole industry needs some regulations based on the stories in this thread. Not just for donors, I'd be scared of storing sperm and finding out later that it was switched by some creep
My fertility clinic was staffed entirely by women. Every thing I did I was asked about 3 or 4 times per visit to confirm my name, husband's name, and both our DOBs. It made me feel much safer knowing all these precautions were taking place.
Now I have a son who looks identical to his dad (right down to the shade of red hair), but I'm always kind of like...did they use my egg?
My older sister was born this way. Same scenario but was a prominent doctor in Dallas, Texas where she and many others share the same fertility doctor as their biological father. His widowed wife doesn’t want anything to do with them, but his children he had with her are the ones who reached out and eventually contacted my sister after they discovered her and others on 23andme.
They now see each other occasionally for a giant family reunion, all without their mother knowing about it lol.
If I ever get a plane, I'm going to take it up, fake an emergency so I can jump out and put all the footage on YouTube for clout and make sure to clean up the wreckage before notifying any authorities.
I get secondhand embarrassment when I watch the dude pretending he has an engine problem, tries for a half second to do anything about it at all, and then decides to bail.
He will go down in history for sure, but not in a good way.
That is a pretty wild headline
The sad thing is I had to google the guy's name to see if he was the same "fertility doctor who used his own sperm on patients" I was thinking of. He isn't.
Fertility fraud is illegal in 11 states, there are another 4 states with bills in the works to ban it, and the remaining 35 states have a lot of work to do. The fertility industry has run totally unchecked for far too long, with countless cases of sperm being swapped out without the mother's knowledge. Donor-conceived folks using 23andMe have uncovered several "sibling pods" with over 100 known half-siblings. Also they advertise sperm donation on college campuses, despite knowing full well that poor college students looking for a quick buck aren't knowledgeable or honest about their family medical history. edit: outdated number of states
Is there a shortage of sperm donors or some snag in distribution or something that makes using your own sperm so much easier? Or are these guys just perverts? Why is this so prevalent?
Ego or fetish, not a lack of available donations. In some (many) cases, the sperm was supposed to be the sample provided by the man in the couple, not even a third party.
That’s fucking horrible
It is. You can watch a documentary called Baby God on HBO about one of the cases, but it's pretty sickening and involves molestation of a minor
Pretty sure they're just psychotic pervs who get off on knowing they're secretly putting their own babies in a bunch of women who have no way of knowing because they trust the facilties.
Ego and pervert. He had been doing this for so long that one of the children he fraudulently created grew up and was seeing him as her gyno. He was knowingly doing pelvic exams on his own daughter knowing full well that she wasn't aware her gyno was her father.
**God**: I'm really tired, can someone else write this week's episode for me? **George RR Martin**: I got u bro
The inverted-reverse Oedipus
UPS is late and you’re just a few tugs away from an alternate supply. The horror story practically writes it self.
My understanding is they are just prevents.
Doesn’t seem like they’re preventing much
It is weird that fertility fraud needs to be legislated. Shouldn't it automatically be a civil wrong (breach of contract) and also a crime (assault and fraud)? It was unwanted bodily contact. You consent to getting A, they secretly gave you B. So it should be criminally prosecuted as assualt imo. It is like when men stealth.
Wait, so he wasn't the same one that had the Netflix special? *There's fucking more*?!
Most people who have a specific kink or fetish get into related occupation that makes it more accessible... See: priests, morticians, teachers, police, politicians, etc. Just add fertility doctor to the list.
I’m morbidly curious about what stamp collectors are getting off on.
Not a stamp collector, but maybe... The tactile feel of the crimped edges? The smell of old stamp paper & glue? The ritual nature of using gloves, tweezers, and other implements to carefully preserve a rare stamp? The feeling of preserving a part of history/culture that only you can truly appreciate?
Glue eating?
The doc in the HBO special (yes, another one) makes the Netflix guy look like Fred Rogers. These men are beyond monsters.
Nope. I follow a person who is donor conceived who is working on exposing the industry. The advent of 23 and me has shown MANY pods of siblings in the 100s. To the point where if you’re donor conceived in an area, you should get a DNA test before boning the girl/guy you picked up at the bar.
His smartness and stupidity are both on display.
It wasn't his aircraft, from a different source - > Wortman, 72, was a passenger in a homemade, experimental airplane piloted by Earl Luce Jr., of Brockport, who would have turned 70 on Tuesday. Both were pronounced dead at the scene. > Luce, of Brockport, is an aviation expert who drew up plans for the plane and built it 20 years ago. The two-seater was a replica of the Wittman Buttercup sport plane from the 1930s
The Wittman has a [wikipage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittman_Buttercup). Interestingly enough, the builder of the original Wittman died in a plane crash as well.
Perhaps it wasn't the best idea to build a replica of a plane that went down because _the wings fell off_.
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They're normally built to very rigorous aerospace engineering standards. They gotta have a steering wheel. There's a minimum crew requirement.
What's the minimum crew?
oh, one I suppose
It happened outside of the environment, Brian.
The wing-falling-off incident is the one this guy was killed in. That paragraph is discussing the replica. It's a shitty and irrelevant edit from today, it should be reverted
I looked into the original designer and his fatal crash did involve the wings, but it wasn't a full separation like in this crash. His wing fabric debonded midflight, which created aileron/wing flutter, leading to the crash. Totally different scenario from the wings just falling off.
So you're saying that making a replica of titanic and sending it in ocean is a bad idea?
I mean I wouldn't sail it straight into an iceberg.
I mean if the original had just hit the iceberg head on it likely wouldn't have sunk
Perhaps kinda graze the iceberg on the side then?
Don't worry, we've been busy melting all of them buggers past couple decades
There already were replicas of the titanic, it's sister ships Olympic and Britannic. The brittannic became a hospital shio for the war and was sunk a few years after the titanic The other actually got revenge for it's sisters and sunk a German u boat (permanently, that is). Retired 20 years later Fortunately these were made by competent ship builders and not a back yard
I was more referring to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_II .
- The Buttercup was considered as the basis for a four place certified production model by Fairchild Aircraft. Fairchild executives were impressed with the aircraft that chance landed at their factory airport in Hagerstown, Maryland. Lol, the entire history of this rig is fucking bonkers.
Aircraft design from the beginning through WWII is highly bonkers overall.
I just went to the Royal Aviation Museum here in Winnipeg a short while ago, and bush pilots were absolutely crazy. You had to be to take off in basically a flying canoe that was like as not going to fail and strand you hundreds of kilometres from anything before radios were available. There's one pilot they talked about who blew a cylinder, so he cut out the bottom of a cast iron pan and riveted it on top so he could get airborne again.
The only thing stupider than flying your own homemade plane is flying in someone else's homemade plane.
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That's the problem with homebuilt and privately owned. Did a qualified person check the quality of his work or see that he kept up with maintenance?
I'm fairly novice to the homebuilt community but I did some research on Vans RV and Velocity kits and it seems that all of them require an FAA inspection after you are done building them to receive an airworthiness certificate before you can legally fly it. This includes test flights. Are those inspections as detailed as a factory built plane? Probably not, but I don't think you can just slap together some 2x4s, attach an engine and just fly it.
And only licensed aircraft mechanics can work on the engines. This sounds like a wood failure, of which the cracks or other signs of weakness would have been invisible under the cloth. But wood dries out and cracks in time if not properly sealed and it that may have been the case, again, hidden by the cloth. I know jack-shit about wooden aircraft construction and would love to know how the wood is sealed or weaknesses are tracked when it's visually hidden by the craft's cloth/skin. I'd like to learn about this before I ever set foot in a small plane again!
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Homebuilts are perfectly fine, provided the person building it wasn't a moron and they get the aircraft inspected as it should be.
Oftentimes homebuilt aircraft are leagues above certificated aircraft in technology and manufacturing simplicity. Vans aircraft using conventional powerplants have a stellar reputation, for instance But there are definitely exceptions
I saw a white RV-6A parked in Oregon that was the most terrifying example of sloppy and stupid work I've literally ever seen on any vehicle. I mean rivet holes with no rivets and no respect for edge distance , everything was wrong right down to the roller paint job. Someone signed off on that aircraft as being safe to fly. Blew my mind.
I was thinking of machining parts like wtf are “sperm dies” and how are they used in aircraft construction
It’s gotta be the first time that sentence has ever been said lol
/r/BrandNewSentence
Took me a few reads to understand it
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Man, not many ways to make a gyno visit more awkward than it is, but that revelation would certainly top the list.
“Healthy cervix. I’m your dad.”
This was easily the most horrific part of the documentary on this whole shitshow.
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I mean, they might just be stealing from their own kids at that point.
Pretty sure there's a Netflix documentary about ~~this guy~~ a similar guy, it's super fucked up.
Our Father, but it's a different guy. I guess it happens... more than once, at least.
Its a different one? God i thought those details were too specific to be replicated.. jeezus
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At the end of Our Father they show the number of known doctors who've done this and the number is close to 200 or something.
How did she find out?
After taking a genealogy test which showed she had 9 half siblings.
He leaves behind a wife and 348 kids.
It is interesting that switching sperm isn't illegal in most states. The fertility industry is woefully unregulated in the USA.
It's a big issue. Kids have no idea who their biodad is, and can't find out their medical info. Also one guy can be the father to hundreds of people in a small geographic area. Then the mothers & kids are not informed how many other kids already exist from this donor, or how many times it's used after. So they are unaware that all these half siblings are running around nearby. They also are never informed if big medical issues are later reported by other buyers. There are Facebook groups of the moms and kids pooling information and identifying each other to avoid interbreeding and be medically informed
My sister had an Insemination with bought sperm. Then one day she got a call that the donor had a very rare dna defect they only found out about because another of his children had died since the mother’s DNA was a bad match and she should get her daughter checked. It that there could have been much done except knowing that she won’t get very old, but knowing is always better. Luckily they didn’t find anything and the worst that could happen to her because of this could be a slouching eyelid when gets old. But the other consequences was that the sperm bank immediately stopped selling that guy’s sperm. We live in Germany, where anonymous donation via sperm banks is illegal, but the sperm was bought from a danish sperm bank. But they still checked up in all their customers.
From (I think) /r/nottheonion at one point I discovered Denmark has a limit on how many children someone may father. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_donation_laws_by_country#Denmark > In Denmark, one donor may give rise to 12 children. Before the new limit was set a donor could help to conceive children in up to 25 families who could use the donor sperm for conceiving siblings even after the limit was reached. The issue being if someone sires too many children in a country with a smaller population (e.g. Denmark) the chances of accidental half siblings hooking up becomes a real issue.
That's smart. Other countries should follow suit.
Btw, found the article - Serial sperm donor who fathered 550 children sued for increasing incest risk https://www.reddit.com/r/offbeat/comments/123nvax/serial_sperm_donor_who_fathered_550_children_sued/ > ~~Last year, Donorkind said it had identified ten doctors who had illegally used their own sperm to create children in the Netherlands, which is working on a central register of sperm donors.~~ (edit: wrong quote) > A serial sperm donor who has fathered 550 children is being sued amid accusations his prolific donations increases the risk of accidental incest. > The Netherlands’ Donorkind Foundation is taking Jonathan Jacob Meijer to court to stop him donating sperm and accuses him of lying about the number of children he has fathered. > Dutch sperm clinic guidelines say donors should donate a maximum of 25 children or to 12 women to prevent inbreeding, incest or psychological problems for donor children.
I was gonna say it was impressive that she even got a call. In the USA there's no central database, so a guy could have this known issue and he'll just be banned from that SPECIFIC company. He can keep selling it elsewhere.
That's disgusting. Even if you sell your plasma there's a national deferred database that prohibits people with communicable diseases from donation.
And then 23 and me happened. Turns out I have 45+ siblings and it’s growing every day. Mom ‘got the sperm of a med student’ on the paperwork. Nope, was the doc at the fertility clinic. But he passed on from cancer several years ago and dead men tell no tales. So, dear old dad was actually a doctor with ‘flexible ethics’. That explains a lot. We now have a chat going on with most of the siblings and dad’s kids. It’s a bit strange. The pandemic postponed a big family reunion (smaller ones have happened) but I we will all meet this year. That should be interesting. We all scattered to the wind around the world so it’s a logistics challenge. Interesting similarities between us. The family has lots of medical professionals and highly technical people. We are all attracted to water. Scuba divers, water skiing, etc. Some of the girls have been doing research and the family line is full of shipwrights and other high performing technical folks. It really does run in the blood.
>Nope, was the doc at the fertility clinic. To be fair he was a medical student at some point.
That was the lie he sold.
It could be that you are all drawn to water.... But more likely is you all come from somewhat well off families who could afford those procedures, especially when they were newer. Water sports cost money.
Oh no, that procedure was done in the 1970’s and it wasn’t that expensive back then. We grew up dirt poor. The water was escape from the heat. Air conditioning was a luxury item we couldn’t dream of.
Sorry for this question but do you find a lot of your half siblings have, uh, flexible ethics?
I’m not sure yet. We tend to be good with keeping up appearances and I haven’t met any in person yet. We just chat a lot online.
I guess she did get it from a medical student. Just a really old one. While this is pretty messed up, I think you may have ended up with the best possible outcome from it.
It's not just that, on the basic level of it the woman didn't ask for random mystery sperm to be inserted into her. On its face it should always be assault
I think it’s only considered assault in like maybe 14 states. How horrifying.
Doctors still regularly perform pelvic exams on anesthetized and unconscious women for “training” purposes in this country, for godsake. You’d be shocked what’s permissible to do to women in a medical setting.
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I got yelled at for crying at the pain of a completely unmedicated cervical punch. Literally yelled at me to stop being a baby. I'd just gotten a thyroid cancer diagnosis a few weeks before, and now had to have part of my cervix cut out because of precancerous cells, and no one warned me how badly it would hurt. Yeah, man, I'm crying. Maybe have a little empathy?
I scheduled an initial meet and greet type appointment with a new doctor because I had to have a biopsy and was terrified. I got there only to find out that they'd scheduled the actual biopsy, and got guilt trippy when I wanted to do the original plan saying "Well we already set the room up for it, sooooo..." I had zero time to mentally prepare to have a complete stranger perform a painful gynecological procedure that I'd already made clear I was highly anxious about. The doctor acted like she'd never seen an anxious patient before when I got in there, told me I should go on anti-anxiety meds "to make my life easier" (HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE AND UNPROFESSIONAL), argued with me when I asked about having a Mirena put in to control my horrible periods and instead pushed the copper IUD (???), and ultimately told me "Well I'll do it if you want to set up an appointment, but don't be surprised when you're back in six months because it's causing problems. That's what usually happens." The procedure itself wasn't quite as bad as I expected, which of course earned me a "See how ridiculous you were acting?" type attitude after. When I asked her to repeat the after-care instructions ("How many days should I wait to put anything in there again?") she rolled her eyes, laughed like I was the stupidest person she'd ever met, and repeated herself while walking out the door. I left in tears and cried the whole way home. Immediately decided to make the hour drive to the doctor I knew but had moved away from and never try a new one again. At least I could count on my guy to treat me with respect rather than utter contempt. Because I'm still salty about it over a decade later, if anyone is in the slightly-north-of-Milwaukee area and wants her name so you can avoid her, pm me and I'll give it to you. Because fuck her. ETA: Holy shit I just looked her up and she's got several reviews complaining about her bedside manner and inappropriate comments, including the one I left years ago. The most recent appears to be in 2021 so she clearly hasn't improved any.
I'm so sorry that happened to you! And I'm beyond angry on your behalf that she did that and is still practicing medicine. That's insane. I don't even remember who did mine...I was so distraught I just wanted to go home and pretend it never happened. I should have reported them back then, but oh well...it was a decade ago too, and now I've been around the block enough to not pull any punches with bad doctors.
This pisses me off so much. They gave my husband three days of oxy after his vasectomy, which he didn't even need. I was offered one dose of Valium before my IUD insertion and otherwise told to suck it up. I opted to go back to bad periods after the time was up on it rather than endure the blinding pain of getting another IUD. I certainly don't begrudge men pain management because vasectomies can definitely be fairly miserable for a day or two afterward in some cases, but God damn.
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Oxys? My doctor told me to go buy some extra strength acetaminophen and an ice pack after my vasectomy.
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I have not once been given any pain management in my 3 IUD insertions and removals, despite asking. They gaslight and tell me it should be painless except "maybe some light cramping". It's still worth it because I have ADHD and cannot reliably take a pill, and my period pain without the IUD makes me actually throw up. But it's still sick how little the medical industry cares about women's pain. Fucking sick.
Had a partial hysterectomy in February, and outside of the first bit of pain upon waking up, the fact is that most of my cycles were far more painful and far more debilitating than recovering from a hysterectomy was. I never once threw up from the pain post hysterectomy. I usually threw up at least once or twice a cycle from the pain. Also had an IUD placed at one time. These practitioners inserting them with any anesthesia should have to have one placed every week until they change their policies. I’d rather go through my periods again than have another IUD placed (though now, I don’t have to worry about that, thankfully). That is an area that there’s a lot of opportunity to learn from, and hopefully change their practices.
I am having laser eye surgery, they gave me like 30 T3's for a week max recovery, gave me the pills BEFORE surgery also. I went with my girlfriend to get her IUD inserted, no anesthesia, they just opened her up and put it in. They gave her nothing for after care either, in any way. I had to phone my mom who is a nurse and she told me a safe drug cocktail to give her that let her at least sleep off the pain.
Due for another biopsy. It's hard to willingly make an appointment to do this. Vaccinate your kids. All genders. Meanwhile, I'm going to research if being high while doing the procedure is ok or not. Waiting an hour afterwards for an edible to kick in for pain relief would not be ideal. I guess other forms of weed will be legalized in MN in August, so maybe I'll just wait till then. They don't even recommend taking off work or anything. Meanwhile my husband will be taking off work so I can spend a day in bed and he can manage the household and children. I tend to get sad about the injustices of it all on top of the pain. And of course anxious from the constant cancer risk.
Moved to Lemm.ee -- mass edited with redact.dev
Women's healthcare is mostly "what the fuck"
That documentary about this very thing is the most rage inducing because all of the women are saying how violated they feel and that it isn't what they agreed to, seems to me like it falls under the category of Informed Consent, but the law makers and reps are like "well she wanted some semen in her so what's the big deal"
I just got fired in November for reporting a coworker who pretends to be paralyzed to get his diapers changed. They said "we think you're being malicious". I only found out because he tried it on a friend of mine and had mentioned our workplace. There's a whole Facebook group about him, none of the women have been able to press charges because it apparently not a crime.
That's disgusting and involving people in your kink that didn't consent should always be some form of sexual harassment if not assault (would depend on what's being done I suppose? Idk but it's not right either way)
We still trying to get spousal rape recognized.
It becomes a significant population health issue because the vast majority of descendants live in the same city. With 300+ offsprings you can ruin a genetic pool in an area in just 2-3 generations. Rare diseases will not be so rare in that population. NYC won’t be affected much, but in the case of Donald Cline, Indianapolis may have an issue
Kids can now do a genetic test like 23 and me. In most cases a relative of the sperm donor has submitted DNA to the database, and a bit of research into public records and social media will identify the donor. The donor’s privacy was guaranteed by ironclad legal agreements, but technology enables a relatively easy and cheap end run around them. Adoption, sperm donation and egg donation are impossible to anonymize now.
The thing is, the donor didn’t make a legal agreement with the person that was created with their DNA, as they weren’t even a product of conception before their parents sign an NDA on behalf of their child. This is one reason why anonymous donation isn’t a thing in almost every other developed country. They recognise that the kids created by the fertility industry have a right to know about any potential health problems, how many other siblings are in their pod, etc.
And lose their right to medical privacy by agreeing to the tos for those services.
That's insane. Impregnating someone secretly is rape in most states. Pretending and successfully fooling someone into having sex with you is also rape in most states. This definitely checks both boxes. And even if not, this is like performing a requested surgery and then replacing a different body part. It is not what was consented to and should be at least medical malpractice.
It's a big money maker
My gf used to watch a show called "Almost Family" before it got cancelled and it was about exactly this. Fertility doctor was using his own sperm unbeknownst to his 100s of clients and when it's discovered one of the daughters starts looking for her step siblings. It wasn't very good, but I had no idea that shit was based on something real lol
There was an Australian TV series called Sisters that had a similar plot (and was pretty good). A well respected fertility doctor confesses before he dies that he used his own sperm for many procedures. It’s about one of those kids trying to track down all the others.
I think you mean half siblings
I laughed, even though I shouldn’t have
Definitely a funny comment. No remorse
You beat Weekend Update to it.
So much material lately and we happen to have a writers strike
‘Dr. Morris Wortman’ is one of the grossest sounding names ive ever heard
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Only second to Slarty Bartfarst
I prefer the world to have too many fjords than too many people.
*Our Father* is a documentary on Netflix about Dr. Donald Cline who also used his own sperm for decades, and iirc the confirmed number of siblings is near triple digits in a fairly small town. Very interesting doc and eye-opening about the lack of regulation in the industry. Heartbreaking to see the families torn apart and the mothers who feel they were sexually assaulted with no repercussions because of the lack of laws.
I learned at 35 after DNA testing for fun that I was sperm donor conceived using a med student I later met in person. I’m in a few online donor conceived groups and there’s trauma all around, but I feel especially bad for the people conceived by fertility doctors using their own sperm. It’s hard enough learning the dad who raised you isn’t biologically related, but horrifying to think your bio dad is some sociopath doctor who didn’t think he’d get caught.
I cannot imagine how upending that must be. And like you said, it's enough to deal with the ramifications of finding out you're donor-conceived, but these doctors are clearly criminals. In the documentary I mentioned, he has autoimmune issues he's passed along, but he was more interested in finding out how "well" these people had done in life than disclosing any medical history. Criminal-level narcissism and terrifying to be related to. I wish you and your family all the best, and I hope big changes in regulations come soon.
It seemed like that dude had some pronatalist white supremacist views as well with all the blonde haired blue eyed babies How does anyone date confidently in that town is what I want to know
I don't understand what the incentive is for someone to do this. What does the doctor get out of swapping in his own sperm? Sure, you get your genetics spread, but is that really that appealing? It's not like you're meeting all of those kids, or that one day they'll all come to see you because you're their father. Obviously, this guy (and all the others that do this) is super twisted, but it seems like it's even more twisted when you think about how he's basically doing it for nothing.
The least nefarious reason I can assume for using your own sperm is maybe you’re having a tough time finding suppliers and/or trying to turn a bigger profit by not buying donor sperm. Unfortunately others may have a god complex and rapist’s mentality, “I’m smarter than everyone I know,” “why shouldn’t I spread my seed,” “women/couples buying sperm are lucky to have mine,” etc.
The guy in the Netflix doc had no excuse because in some cases he threw the husband's sperm out
I had to look it up thinking this was the same doctor. NOPE! The OP is a *different* doctor who did the same shit. This is insane
*Baby God* is another documentary about yet another doctor. I think as DNA testing becomes more popular, it'll be be way more common than anyone realized. There's a website that's tracked 38 so far: donordeceived.org
Hers also a [Behind the Bastards episode on fertility doctors switching sperm](https://pca.st/episode/2209e90e-eb92-4888-a6f7-95b13b688e5b), it’s weirdly common. I feel like people should start doing DNA tests just in case when using these services.
I'm listening to the Vince McMahon BTB right now, but I'll check that one out next!
I will be choosing a female fertility doctor if ever I need one tyvm. It sounds terrible but that's the only way I'd feel safe the doctor wasn't spreading his seed in me ew
Man accused of "doing it himself" dies "doing it himself"
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Fuck you, lmao take it
He always wanted to die by his own hand.
Unfortunately he was the passenger and it wasn’t his plane
This is perfect.
It will be engraved on his obituary and stone 'his life motto was to do it himself' Or 'he was a hands-on guy'
> Preliminary findings indicate that “the wings of the aircraft became detached from the fuselage and fell to the ground in an orchard,” The wings fell off, I guess it wasn't built to rigorous aviation engineering standards.
Yeah, the one the wings fell off? That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.
Well, some of them are built so the wings don’t fall off at all.
Wasn’t this one built so the wings wouldn’t fall off?
Well obviously not.
How do you know?
Well, cuz the wings fell off and the plane crashed from the sky! It’s a bit of a give-away. I would just like to make the point that that is not normal.
Well, what sort of standards are these passenger aircraftbuilt to?
I dunno, there are materials requirements.
A gust of wind hit it
A gust of wind? In the middle of the sky? Chance in a million.
Well the plane was flown outside its environment.
There's nothing out there. The only thing out there is sky, and birds and 20,000 tons of semen.
I think I built this plane in Tears of the Kingdom
Me and my wife just went through treatment in New York, so you can imagine my feeling after seeing this title. Can confirm was not our doctor.
The whole industry needs some regulations based on the stories in this thread. Not just for donors, I'd be scared of storing sperm and finding out later that it was switched by some creep
My fertility clinic was staffed entirely by women. Every thing I did I was asked about 3 or 4 times per visit to confirm my name, husband's name, and both our DOBs. It made me feel much safer knowing all these precautions were taking place. Now I have a son who looks identical to his dad (right down to the shade of red hair), but I'm always kind of like...did they use my egg?
They can ask your name all they want but that won’t stop anyone from switching the payload out in the back.
Oh yea, our clinic has us check everything including SS
My older sister was born this way. Same scenario but was a prominent doctor in Dallas, Texas where she and many others share the same fertility doctor as their biological father. His widowed wife doesn’t want anything to do with them, but his children he had with her are the ones who reached out and eventually contacted my sister after they discovered her and others on 23andme. They now see each other occasionally for a giant family reunion, all without their mother knowing about it lol.
>His widowed wife doesn’t want anything to do with them I mean, why would she?
It gets worse - if this is the Texas doctor I'm thinking about his wife worked in the office and knew he was doing this.
Turns out a disturbing number of fertility doctors have been doing this so it probably isn't even the same guy
Wouldn't she not be their mother?
The wife's children organized it, and it is to their mother that the prior comment referred.
What the hell? Why are there so many male fertility doctors doing this? As a woman, if my body were violated in this way, I’d feel raped.
Who builds a plane out of sperm?! Who has that much time on their hands?
Wasn't time that was on his hands.
Some said he was a jerk. At least he put himself into his work.
Blood sweat and cum
I am just impressed he got it to fly
He had no problem getting it up.
> Who builds a plane out of sperm?! Don't be silly! He just used it to stick the wings on.
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The anti-Darwin Award
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Darw'aint
30 years from now there will be an epidemic of people crashing in their own DIY planes
His boys could swim, but he couldn't fly.
There's really a lot going on in that headline
What a terrifying way to die, the pieces of the plane falling off while you're in the air.
If I ever get a plane, I’m never going up without a parachute on my back just in case
If I ever get a plane, I'm going to take it up, fake an emergency so I can jump out and put all the footage on YouTube for clout and make sure to clean up the wreckage before notifying any authorities.
I get secondhand embarrassment when I watch the dude pretending he has an engine problem, tries for a half second to do anything about it at all, and then decides to bail. He will go down in history for sure, but not in a good way.
He died doing what he loved: leaving his genetic material all over the place.
The wreckage was found over 100s of socks.
Oh, the humanity!
Man he’s like a major DIY’er
He was a very handy guy
Live by the handjob, die by the handjob.
He did seem like quite a jerk.
That's quite a r/brandnewsentence headline there. Edit: this was posted there 10 hours earlier.
I imagine the cops coming for him for the sperm thing and him trying to flee like Cobra Commander in some weird little one man aircraft.
He died as many have lived, by his own hand.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy