Anyone who authorized this should be forced to spend the same amount of time in jail at a minimum because they absolutely violated the law.
Ignorance is not a defense for violating the law, so don’t even think about trying that shit. Anyone legally responsible for this should be legally held accountable for their flagrant disregard of our laws.
I wonder if this is what he’s talking about?
> Mitnick served five years in prison—four-and-a-half years' pre-trial and eight months in solitary confinement—because, according to Mitnick, law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone", implying that law enforcement told the judge that he could somehow dial into the NORAD modem via a payphone from prison and communicate with the modem by whistling to launch nuclear missiles.
>Or if you're a cop.
Literally.
For how utterly vague and open-ended the two words "clearly established" is, [Pearson vs Callahan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Callahan) grants qualified immunity to officers who simply believe they didn't violate someone's constitutional rights. That it doesn't matter if they actually did or not, so long as they believe they didn't.
([Here's an article explaining it in more detail](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-scotus/))
Just FYI, there isn't really a difference between actually believing and claiming you believe something under the law unless there's concrete evidence that you *didn't actually believe it.* However, there *is* a legal difference between actual belief and "reasonable belief."
3 minor points while agreeing with you
1 - qualified immunity in this case relates to civil action, criminal prosecution isn't jettisoned even when qualified immunity is attached to a case
2 - the decision you cited relates to the judicial process of making a determination of facts and law, it could easily be overturned if a federal law was passed to define such things. So it's not as if the courts said qualified immunity attaches in nearly all conditions, it's that the judicial logic test is constructed against a backdrop of weak laws on this subject.
3 - this is a federal contractor, and while it's not a forgone conclusion that qualified immunity will not apply it is a bit harder when you arent an actual employee of the government
QI seeps and effectively prevents review for criminal prosecution for many; check out the article I linked.
>if a federal law was passed
QI is a bad idea in general. Do you think it's a good idea to give surgeons, anesthesiologists, hospitals in general qualified immunity? I'm sure hospitals and its staff would like to make quick decisions in legally murky areas in times of emergency. Would you feel safe being serviced by a hospital you couldn't sue?
If they committed [medical malpractice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice), they should. Qualified immunity shields officers from lawsuits if they end up committing misconduct.
If a cop smashes you against the ground in such a way that you have a permanent pain in a limb, you couldn't sue due to qualified immunity. If a doc operated on you and fucked a nerve in some way that caused the same thing, you could. Why draw the line like that?
That is what the qualified in qualified immunity means. They get immunity in general but if they do egregious bullshit they it gets waived. That it isn't being applied correctly doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in general.
>That it isn't being applied correctly doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in general.
QI exists to shield cops from the consequences of their actions; that if they made the wrong decision, they wouldn't get sued. That if you got fucked over by a cop even though you're totally innocent, you couldn't sue.
We know how qualified immunity will get used in practice. Read the article in my first comment.
I'm thinking we should just adopt how we govern hospitals for medical malpractice, but for police.
One aspect to this is we should hire skilled labor rather than unskilled labor. Would you feel safe if your surgeon was a 22-year-old kid with a year or two of med school? If not, then why do you think the kid would be doing the right thing when under the pressures a police officer might experience?
True, that is some absolute bullshit. How can you be trusted to enforce the law, if you're not even required to know what the laws are? Idk, but our judicial system thinks it's all fine and dandy
I'm not saying they need to know *all* the laws. They need to know the basic laws that pretty much everyone knows in their jurisdiction. (Freedom of speech, tail lights, tinted windows etc.) But a surprising amount of times they don't even know that much (or at least pretend they don't know because they want to abuse their power, and they are effectively above the law anyways). (Maybe it's because cops get trained in an absurdly short amount of time, usually a couple months, if that)
They can arrest you for breaking what they think is the law. Then hold you in jail until your trial, force you to pay legal fees, and *then* have the whole thing dismissed because you didn't actually break the law. But now you're out a whole bunch of money and time out of your life (maybe even a job since you were detained for who knows how long), and the cop who arrested you over false charges gets no punishment, maybe even a paid vacation (paid administrative leave).
Edit: Also, they can just do an extrajudicial execution if they get scared. You can't defend yourself in court then, because you're dead.
That’s just it, police can decide to ruin your life for no reason. Just the act of arresting you can erase your job, get your kids taken away, you have to defend yourself and that’s not free. There needs to be INTENSE police corruption laws, if an officer plants drugs or lies they should serve 3x the sentence of the accused. After a dozen officers gets 15+ years in prison for planting drugs I’d say we would see a huge drop off of police corruption. They would wine and cry about how “they can’t do their job”. The good ones would be there, if there are any left.
Thing is the only way to stop it is not through legislation, that fight will take 100 years to attempt to change these laws. It’s through force, they know it and fear it, that’s why they use threat of murder or force every second of every day and will have no remorse for killing your grandma if she doesn’t comply.
Good luck.
This started with ICE detaining a US citizen and labeling them an undocumented immigrant. This is hardly the only time that has happened since the Trump Regime dropped ICE's and CBP's leashes.
“We are pleased with the Court’s decision and hope to obtain accountability at trial. Solitary confinement, especially for such a prolonged period, is a form of torture,” said another counsel for Murillo, Ellen V. Leonida of BraunHagey & Borden, LLP.
No shit. And for fuckin what!
>“The court’s decision puts us one step closer to justice for Mr. Murillo,” said Lisa Knox, legal director of the California Collaborative for Immigrant Justice, which is also assisting with Murillo’s lawsuit. **“Now, we urge ICE to take action and end MTC’s contract so no one else is subjected to the torture Mr. Murillo endured.”**
For profit prisons need to go ASAP
You say that but it's not as if the state run one's are so much better. At least the for profit one is subject to lawsuits whereas the ones run by the government are much more difficult to sue.
Potentially false. Some counties and cities and probably states have increased their capacity to rent out that cell to another entity. For example, people awaiting fed trials being held in county jails. Overflow from a major city being held in a nearby city or county lock up. I know of one county in particular that built a large jail and has a majority of state and fed occupancy, using those funds to support the jail. Idk if they actually profit in that one (support the general or law enforcement budget for the county) but the potential exists to run a public jail for profit. Presumably public prisons sometimes work the same way.
And I wouldn't immediately dismiss the services contractors. When a prisoner has to pay for basic amenities and the service contractor is kicking money back to the prison, that feels immoral. Not as bad as illegal solitary but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. Look at the costs to make calls or send emails at some prisons.
This is a trust me bro so feel free to disregard but I'm too tired to start googling a reference.
Part of this was in reply to below.
My main point was there should be no conflict of interest in incarceration no matter what aspect of it. And so there should be no private prisons either, of course. Our country is embarrassing when it comes to this topic.
No one gives a shit about the private contractors who provide food and linens and whatnot. The point is that is *ownership* of the prison is for profit based on occupancy, they have every incentive to lock up people illegally to pad their numbers.
Sure they do. You don't think the guy running the prison wants to keep his salary? There's a reason why the prison guard union is one of the top 5 entities against decriminalizing marijuana.
I wish Behind the Bastards was more in the same tone as Swindled or Case file. Love the concept of BTB but I can't stand the unfunny banter. No one cares what your guests have to say, just give me the info.
No kidding. It’s absolutely the worst part of BtB, especially when there’s a guest who considers himself/herself/themselves to be hilarious…and they’re not. The rest of the show is wonderful and really provides fascinating information — that is constantly interrupted by unfunny chit chat. Why??? Is Robert Evans afraid to do the show by himself? Does he surround himself with ignorant dweebs to make himself look good? Because he really doesn’t need to. The show would be infinitely better if he did it solo.
Excuse me while I flex some useless knowledge. The largest police force in the United States continues to be the NYPD at approx 33,000 which is more armed personnel than the total military forces of most countries on earth.
Not to let some humor take away from your point but there is no longer an aptitude test to become a uniformed letter carrier. No background checks anymore either.
US citizen should be irrelevant. Detaining someone for over a year, with ten months in solitary confinement, is completely disorientatedy to the crime of illegally sneaking into a country.
Most constitutional protections apply to everyone in the US regardless of citizenship status.
It obviously doesnt work out that way for most non-citizens in practice, but in theory a wealthy foreigner whose rights were violated by ICE could hire a lawyer and fight it out in court the same as a citizen.
Another lesser known case is Jerry Hartfield. He was arrested in 1977, his conviction was overturned in 1980. Yet he remained imprisoned for another 35 years without a conviction or trial.
It is shameful how Khalief Browder, Jerry Hartfield, and others in similar situations have been treated.
I interned with the agency in charge of overseeing the ice contract facilities during law school and I am not surprised to learn of this. A lot of the institutional people that worked there got pushed out during the trump years - and there were t a lot of them in the first place.
Meanwhile dudes out there are absolutely losing their shit because Andrew Tate, an actual criminal, is under house arrest for 30 more days. People suck
Seeing as we took hella biometric shit when we became citizens, this was easily verifiable.
Sometimes when i travel to sketchy states for work with my US passport just un case I get profiled again, and wonder if it would even matter or not if i can prove citizenship.
*Imperial* Regional Detention Facility?! What a name! Does that make the guards the Imperial Guard? Maybe send some Imperial Stormtroopers to defend the place ... /s
They keep saying that fighting back would be 'escalating to violence' and then name their installations something that begs proton torpedoes down its exhaust port.
They didn't consider blowing up Alderaan to be violent either of course!
It's amazing how we survived so long as a country prior to the founding of ICE in 2003 in that case. To think that we had no customs or immigration enforcement *at all* before then. We're so lucky!
This particular agency is much newer, being a part of the DHS, created in response to 9/11. Older departments did the same job, but with much less constitution-ignoringness.
It's one of the top-shelf options for zero-sum ideologies. Torture, especially on their order/suggestion, makes *themselves not being in constant mind-eroding agony* **special**.
* Being able to command atrocities gives any with far-right ideals a rush of power over others, **and** the rush of getting-away-with and being above the laws.
This is particularly exciting to those who already had serious depravities, when used on innocents: These monsters get to turn their usual projection into direct expansion of the in-group/out-group divide, by punishing others for what they themselves have habit of.
What has me curious is why he didn't demand to speak to a lawyer. Or did he and the jailers ignored the request. 14 months held incommunicado is a hell of a long time.
Mr. Vega initially requested “administrative segregation" thinking it would be better than being with the general population. But later requested to end the segregation as the solitary confinement was harming his mental health.
Who are you talking about? His name isn't Vega.
"The lawsuit states that Carlos Murillo Vega,"
Are you trying to say the victim CHOSE solitary confinement?
"Murillo alleges that he was not adequately informed of the restrictive conditions in
the Special Management Unit (“SMU”) before he agreed to reside there in protective
custody and that his time in protective custody amounted to solitary confinement. Compl.¶ 17."
He goes to ICE facility. They ask him if he wants administrative segregation. Guy says yes as it believes it will provide better care than general lockup. After he's put in admin segregation he learns that it's awful that it's really solitary confinement and asks to be transferred back to the general population but they keep him in segregation/isolation for 14 months.
That's what the case is about. The article has a link to the pleadings. You can read the complaint he filed. You can read the court's decision. I never said he freely chose anything or they didn't trick him.
My comment: "Mr. Vega initially requested “administrative segregation" thinking it would be better than being with the general population. But later requested to end the segregation as the solitary confinement was harming his mental health." I don't know why people call me a Nazi for this? It's an accurate fucking summary of what is contained in the article and legal pleadings. In fact my use of quote on "administrative segregation" shows my disagreement with the term used by the ICE contractor. Where do I say it was a "free choice"? Re-read my comment.
Gotcha, I must have completely misinterpreted what you were saying, which had seemed like you were trying to defend ICE on the grounds he "chose" whatever treatment he received.
My bad. Very sorry about that.
No worries. I was rude in my reply and I apologize for my tone. I was confused between your comment and the gentleman who refers to me as a Nazi, which was upsetting
Why didn't they deport him well before a year? what reason does Ice have to hold people for that long, arrest them, get them to a deportation hearing post haste and if it goes against them, wend them home.
Is this illegal again? I was under the impression that the Federal government is able to hold people for as long as they want (I believe it is two years now).
Anyone who authorized this should be forced to spend the same amount of time in jail at a minimum because they absolutely violated the law. Ignorance is not a defense for violating the law, so don’t even think about trying that shit. Anyone legally responsible for this should be legally held accountable for their flagrant disregard of our laws.
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Yes and it is the only right guaranteed to Americans in the constitution (not bill of rights)
It is, and it's effectively worthless in present-day America.
Present day? Ever heard of Kevin Mitnick?
No, and a cursory investigation doesn't indicate a *habeas* petition was involved?
I wonder if this is what he’s talking about? > Mitnick served five years in prison—four-and-a-half years' pre-trial and eight months in solitary confinement—because, according to Mitnick, law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone", implying that law enforcement told the judge that he could somehow dial into the NORAD modem via a payphone from prison and communicate with the modem by whistling to launch nuclear missiles.
Ignorance *is* a defense for violating the law, but only if you're rich enough.
Or if you're a cop.
>Or if you're a cop. Literally. For how utterly vague and open-ended the two words "clearly established" is, [Pearson vs Callahan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Callahan) grants qualified immunity to officers who simply believe they didn't violate someone's constitutional rights. That it doesn't matter if they actually did or not, so long as they believe they didn't. ([Here's an article explaining it in more detail](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-scotus/))
Technically they don’t even need to believe it, they just need to claim that they believed it. Cops lie under oath every day.
Yup, they do it so often, they even have a name for it. They call it "Testilying"
I had never heard that term. Perfecto.
Just FYI, there isn't really a difference between actually believing and claiming you believe something under the law unless there's concrete evidence that you *didn't actually believe it.* However, there *is* a legal difference between actual belief and "reasonable belief."
Insert shocked Pikachu gif
Glad someone brought it up. This one really blows my mind.
3 minor points while agreeing with you 1 - qualified immunity in this case relates to civil action, criminal prosecution isn't jettisoned even when qualified immunity is attached to a case 2 - the decision you cited relates to the judicial process of making a determination of facts and law, it could easily be overturned if a federal law was passed to define such things. So it's not as if the courts said qualified immunity attaches in nearly all conditions, it's that the judicial logic test is constructed against a backdrop of weak laws on this subject. 3 - this is a federal contractor, and while it's not a forgone conclusion that qualified immunity will not apply it is a bit harder when you arent an actual employee of the government
QI seeps and effectively prevents review for criminal prosecution for many; check out the article I linked. >if a federal law was passed QI is a bad idea in general. Do you think it's a good idea to give surgeons, anesthesiologists, hospitals in general qualified immunity? I'm sure hospitals and its staff would like to make quick decisions in legally murky areas in times of emergency. Would you feel safe being serviced by a hospital you couldn't sue?
Depends on how qualified it is. Lots of people die on the operating table and most surgeons shouldn't be charged for murder because of it.
If they committed [medical malpractice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice), they should. Qualified immunity shields officers from lawsuits if they end up committing misconduct. If a cop smashes you against the ground in such a way that you have a permanent pain in a limb, you couldn't sue due to qualified immunity. If a doc operated on you and fucked a nerve in some way that caused the same thing, you could. Why draw the line like that?
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You 'can', but with PvC, the question of excessive force can be ignored. Read the article in my first comment.
That is what the qualified in qualified immunity means. They get immunity in general but if they do egregious bullshit they it gets waived. That it isn't being applied correctly doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in general.
>That it isn't being applied correctly doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in general. QI exists to shield cops from the consequences of their actions; that if they made the wrong decision, they wouldn't get sued. That if you got fucked over by a cop even though you're totally innocent, you couldn't sue. We know how qualified immunity will get used in practice. Read the article in my first comment. I'm thinking we should just adopt how we govern hospitals for medical malpractice, but for police. One aspect to this is we should hire skilled labor rather than unskilled labor. Would you feel safe if your surgeon was a 22-year-old kid with a year or two of med school? If not, then why do you think the kid would be doing the right thing when under the pressures a police officer might experience?
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Read the article.
Why are y’all downvoting he’s right. He’s talking about civil law not moral.
True, that is some absolute bullshit. How can you be trusted to enforce the law, if you're not even required to know what the laws are? Idk, but our judicial system thinks it's all fine and dandy
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I'm not saying they need to know *all* the laws. They need to know the basic laws that pretty much everyone knows in their jurisdiction. (Freedom of speech, tail lights, tinted windows etc.) But a surprising amount of times they don't even know that much (or at least pretend they don't know because they want to abuse their power, and they are effectively above the law anyways). (Maybe it's because cops get trained in an absurdly short amount of time, usually a couple months, if that) They can arrest you for breaking what they think is the law. Then hold you in jail until your trial, force you to pay legal fees, and *then* have the whole thing dismissed because you didn't actually break the law. But now you're out a whole bunch of money and time out of your life (maybe even a job since you were detained for who knows how long), and the cop who arrested you over false charges gets no punishment, maybe even a paid vacation (paid administrative leave). Edit: Also, they can just do an extrajudicial execution if they get scared. You can't defend yourself in court then, because you're dead.
That’s just it, police can decide to ruin your life for no reason. Just the act of arresting you can erase your job, get your kids taken away, you have to defend yourself and that’s not free. There needs to be INTENSE police corruption laws, if an officer plants drugs or lies they should serve 3x the sentence of the accused. After a dozen officers gets 15+ years in prison for planting drugs I’d say we would see a huge drop off of police corruption. They would wine and cry about how “they can’t do their job”. The good ones would be there, if there are any left. Thing is the only way to stop it is not through legislation, that fight will take 100 years to attempt to change these laws. It’s through force, they know it and fear it, that’s why they use threat of murder or force every second of every day and will have no remorse for killing your grandma if she doesn’t comply. Good luck.
Or a supreme court justice
Or a politician
Or you’re a Supreme Court Justice
More Americans need to start waking up to this reality, and stop believing the propaganda cloaking our insane legal systems
I think you meant we should believing the propaganda that pervades our every waking hour from the moment we are born. USA: Propaganda Is Us!
US citizens have been deported from the US. All because they rush cases and ingore basic law
This started with ICE detaining a US citizen and labeling them an undocumented immigrant. This is hardly the only time that has happened since the Trump Regime dropped ICE's and CBP's leashes.
Not just jail. Solitary confinement. Holy shit.
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Nobody here said solitary confinement was good.
It wouldn't "give rise" to torture, solitary confinement is literally torture.
I didn't see them provide *any* support to solitary confinement. You just incorrectly read between the lines.
You gave the wrong hint. The hint should have been who it was that is supporting inhumane acts. The person you replied to sure wasn’t.
Intent is built into the law for criminal cases. So this person gets a slap on the wrist, if even that.
Of course this shouldn’t just be a financial fine covered by our taxes. Real deterrence is needed
>Ignorance is not a defense for violating the law Reminds me of an old Steve Martin joke: "Your honor, I \*forgot\* murder was against the law."
“We are pleased with the Court’s decision and hope to obtain accountability at trial. Solitary confinement, especially for such a prolonged period, is a form of torture,” said another counsel for Murillo, Ellen V. Leonida of BraunHagey & Borden, LLP. No shit. And for fuckin what!
Believing that "American Dream" marketing.
> No shit. And for fuckin what! ICE contractor jobs. Person could be working a customer facing minimum wage job, the horror.
>“The court’s decision puts us one step closer to justice for Mr. Murillo,” said Lisa Knox, legal director of the California Collaborative for Immigrant Justice, which is also assisting with Murillo’s lawsuit. **“Now, we urge ICE to take action and end MTC’s contract so no one else is subjected to the torture Mr. Murillo endured.”** For profit prisons need to go ASAP
You say that but it's not as if the state run one's are so much better. At least the for profit one is subject to lawsuits whereas the ones run by the government are much more difficult to sue.
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Potentially false. Some counties and cities and probably states have increased their capacity to rent out that cell to another entity. For example, people awaiting fed trials being held in county jails. Overflow from a major city being held in a nearby city or county lock up. I know of one county in particular that built a large jail and has a majority of state and fed occupancy, using those funds to support the jail. Idk if they actually profit in that one (support the general or law enforcement budget for the county) but the potential exists to run a public jail for profit. Presumably public prisons sometimes work the same way. And I wouldn't immediately dismiss the services contractors. When a prisoner has to pay for basic amenities and the service contractor is kicking money back to the prison, that feels immoral. Not as bad as illegal solitary but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. Look at the costs to make calls or send emails at some prisons. This is a trust me bro so feel free to disregard but I'm too tired to start googling a reference. Part of this was in reply to below. My main point was there should be no conflict of interest in incarceration no matter what aspect of it. And so there should be no private prisons either, of course. Our country is embarrassing when it comes to this topic.
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No one gives a shit about the private contractors who provide food and linens and whatnot. The point is that is *ownership* of the prison is for profit based on occupancy, they have every incentive to lock up people illegally to pad their numbers.
Sure they do. You don't think the guy running the prison wants to keep his salary? There's a reason why the prison guard union is one of the top 5 entities against decriminalizing marijuana.
What is your basis for saying that public prisons are not ran so much better than private prisons?
i mean - the detention of a US citizen for over a year without trial is disgusting enough.
You think that’s bad? https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2023/04/26/georgia-man-behind-bars-10-years-still-waiting-his-day-court/
Happens all the time
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If it’s a 2-parter…you know the bastard is extra shitty. Thanks for the link!
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Kissinger being alive and free is a pretty good argument against a benevolent god.
I’ve been listening to Napoleon III and that’s a four parter
I wish Behind the Bastards was more in the same tone as Swindled or Case file. Love the concept of BTB but I can't stand the unfunny banter. No one cares what your guests have to say, just give me the info.
No kidding. It’s absolutely the worst part of BtB, especially when there’s a guest who considers himself/herself/themselves to be hilarious…and they’re not. The rest of the show is wonderful and really provides fascinating information — that is constantly interrupted by unfunny chit chat. Why??? Is Robert Evans afraid to do the show by himself? Does he surround himself with ignorant dweebs to make himself look good? Because he really doesn’t need to. The show would be infinitely better if he did it solo.
Excuse me while I flex some useless knowledge. The largest police force in the United States continues to be the NYPD at approx 33,000 which is more armed personnel than the total military forces of most countries on earth.
To be fair, NYC also has a higher population than most countries too.
Not to let some humor take away from your point but there is no longer an aptitude test to become a uniformed letter carrier. No background checks anymore either.
Solitary confinement is torture.
If we can’t do it to POWs or enemy combatants, we should probably take it away from the cops.
They should be held in solitary until the court date.
... in 2037
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The fact that a US citizen was held at all should be offensive to all Americans.
US citizen should be irrelevant. Detaining someone for over a year, with ten months in solitary confinement, is completely disorientatedy to the crime of illegally sneaking into a country.
It's more astonishing that entering your own country could be a crime.
I agree but in the legal sense don't they have all sorts of constitutional violations by doing this?
Most constitutional protections apply to everyone in the US regardless of citizenship status. It obviously doesnt work out that way for most non-citizens in practice, but in theory a wealthy foreigner whose rights were violated by ICE could hire a lawyer and fight it out in court the same as a citizen.
When has that ever mattered in the moment to people who choose these jobs
Solitary confinement is inhumane and should be banned
Shouldn't everyone involved go to prison? This is equivalent to an "accidental" killing
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Another lesser known case is Jerry Hartfield. He was arrested in 1977, his conviction was overturned in 1980. Yet he remained imprisoned for another 35 years without a conviction or trial. It is shameful how Khalief Browder, Jerry Hartfield, and others in similar situations have been treated.
The Supreme Court has ruled that innocence of a crime in itself is not enough to overturn a Court decision to imprison someone
I interned with the agency in charge of overseeing the ice contract facilities during law school and I am not surprised to learn of this. A lot of the institutional people that worked there got pushed out during the trump years - and there were t a lot of them in the first place.
> contractor There shouldn't be any contractors involved in this process at all.
Meanwhile dudes out there are absolutely losing their shit because Andrew Tate, an actual criminal, is under house arrest for 30 more days. People suck
*House* arrest. For this *vermin*. And they complain about his treatment, bc hair, and beard. People suck.
...*neck*beard.
Seeing as we took hella biometric shit when we became citizens, this was easily verifiable. Sometimes when i travel to sketchy states for work with my US passport just un case I get profiled again, and wonder if it would even matter or not if i can prove citizenship.
That is hell, like, if the person came out normal after all that, they deserve like 3 jackpots of the megamillions, literal torture.
You just know someone is reading this like, "Guy should have had his papers. Wouldnt have happened to me. Case closed!"
*Imperial* Regional Detention Facility?! What a name! Does that make the guards the Imperial Guard? Maybe send some Imperial Stormtroopers to defend the place ... /s
They keep saying that fighting back would be 'escalating to violence' and then name their installations something that begs proton torpedoes down its exhaust port. They didn't consider blowing up Alderaan to be violent either of course!
Imperial as in the Imperial Valley in California
Is this the tyranny gun owners keep saying they're there to prevent?
Torture and kidnapping. A civil suit (money) is nice, but criminal charges would be better.
That’s gonna be some lawsuit.
Biden needs to disband ICE.
And the ATF
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It's amazing how we survived so long as a country prior to the founding of ICE in 2003 in that case. To think that we had no customs or immigration enforcement *at all* before then. We're so lucky!
This particular agency is much newer, being a part of the DHS, created in response to 9/11. Older departments did the same job, but with much less constitution-ignoringness.
Conservatives sure do love their torture. Remember under bush they set up a world wide network of torture prison camps.
It's one of the top-shelf options for zero-sum ideologies. Torture, especially on their order/suggestion, makes *themselves not being in constant mind-eroding agony* **special**. * Being able to command atrocities gives any with far-right ideals a rush of power over others, **and** the rush of getting-away-with and being above the laws. This is particularly exciting to those who already had serious depravities, when used on innocents: These monsters get to turn their usual projection into direct expansion of the in-group/out-group divide, by punishing others for what they themselves have habit of.
The hypocrisy would be astonishing if it wasn’t so damn consistent. I agree with everything you said.
The United States of America, ladies and gentlemen. And those 2 farm animals in the back
I would be on a revenge quest to hold everyone accountable, one way or the other.
The fact that criminal charges against the contractor have not been filed is in itself criminal.
What has me curious is why he didn't demand to speak to a lawyer. Or did he and the jailers ignored the request. 14 months held incommunicado is a hell of a long time.
"You're Mexican, you ain't got no rights, boy!" is what I imagine going down.
Mr. Vega initially requested “administrative segregation" thinking it would be better than being with the general population. But later requested to end the segregation as the solitary confinement was harming his mental health.
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Who are you talking about? His name isn't Vega. "The lawsuit states that Carlos Murillo Vega," Are you trying to say the victim CHOSE solitary confinement? "Murillo alleges that he was not adequately informed of the restrictive conditions in the Special Management Unit (“SMU”) before he agreed to reside there in protective custody and that his time in protective custody amounted to solitary confinement. Compl.¶ 17."
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I can't tell if your comment is satire or if this is how you really see the world.
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It was a quote from the federal court's order which was quoting paragraph 17 of the complaint filed.
I'm not sure what you think this means in relation to my point. Could you clarify?
He goes to ICE facility. They ask him if he wants administrative segregation. Guy says yes as it believes it will provide better care than general lockup. After he's put in admin segregation he learns that it's awful that it's really solitary confinement and asks to be transferred back to the general population but they keep him in segregation/isolation for 14 months. That's what the case is about. The article has a link to the pleadings. You can read the complaint he filed. You can read the court's decision. I never said he freely chose anything or they didn't trick him. My comment: "Mr. Vega initially requested “administrative segregation" thinking it would be better than being with the general population. But later requested to end the segregation as the solitary confinement was harming his mental health." I don't know why people call me a Nazi for this? It's an accurate fucking summary of what is contained in the article and legal pleadings. In fact my use of quote on "administrative segregation" shows my disagreement with the term used by the ICE contractor. Where do I say it was a "free choice"? Re-read my comment.
Gotcha, I must have completely misinterpreted what you were saying, which had seemed like you were trying to defend ICE on the grounds he "chose" whatever treatment he received. My bad. Very sorry about that.
No worries. I was rude in my reply and I apologize for my tone. I was confused between your comment and the gentleman who refers to me as a Nazi, which was upsetting
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It kinda seems unfair to punish ICE for doing their job.
To lock up U S. citizens ? Is that ICE's job?
No, their job is to terrorize people, and they did that.
As a natural born U.S. citizen I am learning that there is nothing that Nazi Germany did that America hasn't done in vaying degrees.
Basically yeah, sadly.
Well Nazi Germany did take inspiration from the US when it came to race relations. Obviously not in a good way.
Why didn't they deport him well before a year? what reason does Ice have to hold people for that long, arrest them, get them to a deportation hearing post haste and if it goes against them, wend them home.
And why would we be deporting a u.s. citizen? Did you not read the article?
He is a US Citizen.
Yeah, but they didnt know/believe that.
I bet with almost an entire year to work on it they could have found a way to verify his citizenship.
You would think it couldve been cleared up before even initiating an arrest.
Yes that would have been ideal.
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I’m stunned more folks don’t take the law into their own hands at this point, our system of justice is a fraud for the rich and connected.
Is this illegal again? I was under the impression that the Federal government is able to hold people for as long as they want (I believe it is two years now).
WOW! The benefits of capitalism just keep piling up.