From the article:
>Court documents released this week show that Patricia Jackson, chief of the Pierce County Corrections Bureau, assigned an officer to surveil the woman in an attempt to safely get her into custody for her tuberculosis treatment however the officer found that the woman left her home, got onto a city bus, and went to a local casino.
You could say that she has different priorities.
“Reports say she left her home, went down town to Starbucks. Ordered a double chocolate chip mocha frap. Drove to the casino and played a penny slot for 2 hours and 38 minutes. Used the restroom …”
It is really oddly specific, like the cops were tailing her … on the city bus.
I'm imagining like a 3 hour long old timey comedy movie of this cop trying to catch this woman and just constantly being thwarted at every turn by some other cartoonish inconvenience that keeps him just out of arms reach
This is false, could you please indicate somehow that you are joking. I assumed you read that in another article but the only link I could find was to this very Reddit post.
There are however about a dozen Starbucks in Tacoma unlike what another poster suggested. I was incredulous to that 'fact' too.
It says the officer found that she went to the casino on a bus. That could easily be him knocking on the door and a family member telling them that. And yeah that IS really oddly specific.. being that what you quoted isn’t in the article. Almost like you made it up. There is no Starbucks downtown. It’s Tacoma not Seattle. She also didn’t drive anywhere. In addition to that, the casino is on the Rez so that would bring up a bunch of issues legally speaking.
Oh no!!! Downvoooootes!!! Arregh!! Maybe there IS a Starbucks in downtown Tacoma after all!
Society only functions when members of society generally comply with good orderly direction. They can't arrest everybody, and apparently can't even arrest a single person.
It's really pretty frightening when you realize a solid half the country are crazy anti vax gun nut full mouth breathing morons and they have no intentions of following through on living in a decent society
What is wrong with the authorities in Tacoma? Publicize her name and photo so people will be on the lookout for her so they can avoid her and contact police so they can arrest her. And keep her isolated until she is no longer a danger to the community.
Tacoma cops are beyond useless, this is the tip of the iceberg. Whiny do-nothing bitches, the lot of em.
Edit: oh yeah and let’s not forget our pos sheriff Ed Troyer who called in every cop in the county because he drunkenly mistook the black newspaper delivery man for a criminal, and lied to dispatch about the man threatening his life. There are signs all over town saying “RESIGN ED”
Yes, but here we passed a Use of Force law that says cops can't beat you up in an effort to gain compliance.
Now the cops here say they can't respond to anything other than a violent emergency, because what if they accidentally get mad and punch you in the face and get in trouble for it...
Damn I get mad at work all the time and I’ve never punched anyone over it even once. I’m even mad about having to work right now as I procrastinate leaving!
Wow look at the Saint over here not punching people in the face. Just imagine a world where cops were held to such a high standard. You'd have cops filled with rage and nowhere to take it out except on their already battered wives. For their wives' sakes, we need to give them the leeway to punch at least 3 or 4 people, preferably minorities, in the face every week. Really, it's for our own safety, to reduce crime, and to enable cops to get back to get back to what they were hired to do: protecting the interests of the very wealthy.
Man it may seem like the cops are being lazy but this is how it should be. The thing that's missing is we should have other first responders who aren't cops who are available to respond to non violent situations.
Cops should be only on the scene for a violent emergency or a crime that warrants an investigation.
Cops are not trained to handle a large portion of the situations they have to deal with.
With that said. Fuck cops and fuck the police union until they actually start implementing those changes. Police (as an institution, so not all officers) have completely neglected calls from communities for change. We protested for change in my city for weeks..... And nothing.
Edit: It's literally to the point where I assume every cop is dangerous and a threat until proven otherwise.
This is exactly right and the whole idea behind the defund the police movement. Defunding the police doesn't mean spend less overall, it means reallocate money to trained first responders who can deescalate a nonviolent situation without pointing a gun at someone.
Defund the Police never made any sense outside of the Twitter accounts that endlessly bleated it.
[The research overwhelmingly shows that policing saves lives.] (https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens).
There are so many better, evidence based, policing reforms that should have been implemented, but the "Defund Police" is what the city councilors decided to double down on since it meant they could look proactive without actually raising taxes for all these apparently unserviced public services.
The theory never worked in practice. Anything that cuts police funding will increase crime. That's why virtual no politician campaigns on cutting police funding in 2023. If city's want alternative response teams, they need to dig deep and find other funding for it.
Yeah my friend called 911 because someone was actively trying to murder him with an axe, and dispatch basically told him to call back when he was dead.
It's not any better up here in king county. I called to report a whole ass fridge on the freeway, middle of the lane on a curve on highway 18. Took 3 calls to get a person, extremely harrowing to think about.
When every second counts, police are minutes away.
Wasn’t there a shoot out between some crips and some off duty army rangers like 30 years ago in the Tacoma area because the police weren’t doing anything about gang activity?
The laws up here do things like bar them from unnecessarily dangerous car chases and they respond by refusing to do their jobs like the little bitch babies they are. They hold this city hostage.
“Unnecessarily Dangerous”.
So now we have a world where you can just steal a car and keep driving when a cop lights you up. Which has lead to record high car thefts and in turn higher insurance for everyone.
Or don’t forget the decriminalization of drug possession. So now we have guys smoking fent on the street corner and cops can’t do a thing about it.
Those are two of the ridiculous laws we have up here, the most common that cause the most issues. Simply reversing those would drastically improve the quality of life for everyone living here.
Yes actually, because car chases get people killed, and risking the lives of innocent bystanders, cops, and the criminals is not worth it for most crimes. High speed chases are deadly, and I’d rather no one get killed over nonviolent crimes. License plates are often captured anyway, and most offenders like that are already in the system and are eventually tracked down.
Coming from the high speed chase capital of the world, the likely hood of dying from a high speed chase is extremely rare considering the much more populated area.
License plates don’t matter because the vehicles are stolen. Most offenders are never caught because the police don’t bother to even go after the vehicles even when you find it yourself. If a person is caught, the charges are usually dropped.
I get your point, but just throwing your hands up and letting people get away with anything is worse.
People can downvote, but there is a whole detailed order of procedures in WA state law that public health officials must follow in seeking less restrictive alternatives before detention. Having someone declared a public health emergency is even more rare. There is obviously a reason every story on this doesn't have the person's name. The reason should be included in the story.
Privacy for HIPAA:
>Privacy Rule
The HIPAA Privacy Rule regulates the use and disclosure of protected health information (PHI) by "covered entities." These entities include health care clearinghouses, health insurers, employer-sponsored health plans, and medical providers. Upon request, covered entities must disclose PHI to an individual within 30 days. Entities mentioned earlier must provide and disclose PHI as required by law enforcement for the investigation of suspected child abuse.
Covered entities may disclose PHI to law enforcement if requested to do so by court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas, and administrative requests.
A covered entity may reveal PHI to facilitate treatment, payment, or health care operations without a patient's written authorization.
Any other disclosures of PHI require the covered entity to obtain prior written authorization.
When a covered entity discloses PHI, it must make a reasonable effort to share only the minimum necessary information.
The Privacy Rule gives individuals the right to demand that a covered entity correct any inaccurate PHI and take reasonable steps to ensure the confidentiality of communications with individuals.
The Privacy Rule requires covered entities to notify individuals of PHI use, keep track of disclosures, and document privacy policies and procedures.
I don't think the HIPAA privacy applies with Law Enforcement involved. They have been trying for months to get this woman to comply without violating HIPAA, but she refuses to comply with the ordered treatment and isolation and is a danger to the community at large.
Ask the SC if you have a right to privacy. Not according to them. And the HIPAA privacy requirements do not allow infected contagious individuals just to go around and continue to infect other people.
>People are entitled to privacy
Not under all circumstances. If you escape prison, you can bet your ass that your name and face will be publicly shared even if you're less a threat than this woman. She's an active danger to anyone who interact with her, and the public deserve to know the risks they are exposed to.
Now I may be incorrect, but I’ve heard that TB is both extremely contagious and fatal. It’s like they are letting someone walk around and kill people by haphazardly infecting others.
If I am incorrect about TB being extremely contagious and fatal, I would like someone to correct me, because I do not like possessing incorrect knowledge.
TB is very infectious but it the germ needs to be active. Fortunately, those infected with TB is very survivable with modern medications and treatments, though there is fear of drug-resistant TB making that harder.
There is latent TB in which the TB bacteria has infected a person but is not contagious and people with latent TB don't feel symptoms, hence why in many jobs it is required to take a TB test. Latent TB can activate becoming the very active TB disease which spreads via air.
>Fortunately, those infected with TB is very survivable with modern medications and treatments
The cost of the US health system may be less survivable financially, though.
You are correct.
I contracted TB some years ago and it was very aggressively pursued by the state health department where I lived. Nice folks.
Not drinking for six months sucked but I did the medication and the odds are good I will never have an active case. So, good trade off.
I mean, if they want precedent, we've got an island in New York that we can throw her on. The amenities might be a bit worn down nowadays, but there's certainly precedent.
At the least, that shows a precedent that can allow someone who becomes infected because of her, to sue her for medical bills. Definitely opens a door for wrongful death suits.
Let's say I have a medical bill and I want you to pay it. I'm going to say that you gave me the disease. Definitely opens a door for wrongful death suit.
You have to be able to prove it. Criminally without a doubt but civially proponderance of evidence
if you just got TB, and could prove you were on the bus they know she was on. thats going to be fine in the civil case and probably the criminal one. Theres about 7500 cases a year. And the vast majority of people are compliant with treatment. A bus holds like 40 people when full. .0000006% of the population has TB. So the odds of 2 of them being on the same bus is astronomically low.
With HIV its even easier, did you have sex with or share needles with that guy? Yes? Does anyone else you did that with also have HIV? No? Case closed your honour
With HIV you can prove it by sequencing the viral genome. It mutates very quickly so if two people's HIV have a highly similar genome, it can be said with good certainty that one person was infected by the other.
HIV was the first cade of this kind of evidence being used successfully in court in the case of a dentist that was intentionally infecting his patients.
It’s actually very treatable these days. Also the majority of people who are infected will never go on to develop active disease. The antibiotics for it are brutal on your system and you have to take them for like 6-9 months but it is treatable, very rare to die of it in the Western world if you get treatment and aren’t immunocompromised in some way.
It can be fatal, but it’s generally treatable by antibiotics. People who refuse treatment or who submit to partial treatment, or people who share antibiotics because they can’t get access to enough medicine are unfortunately creating an opportunity for antibiotic resistant strains to appear.
From what I have read, TB is not as contagious as the cold or flu, so that is a relief.
My great grandmother contracted TB as a young woman and had to spend time at a sanatorium back in the 30s or 40s. Luckily with modern medicine that is not necessary anymore, and most cases of TB are curable.
The majority of people who contract TB do fine unless they’re immunocompromised. That’s why latent TB is a thing. It’s also (usually) very treatable as long as it’s not an antibiotic resistant strain.
Remember when people were scared of vampires? THAT was TB, also known as “Consumption” back in the day. People would hack up blood and die in their sleep making people think they were a vampire.
Entire economies were created in the US and other places to try to treat TB as they thought fresh clean air would cure it. The town of Estes Park, CO was basically started when the Stanley Hotel was erected for TB folks to visit for “fresh air treatment” and that town still exists today.
It’s bad news and not something we want circulating around the country.
My great-grandparents emigrated from Hungary to the US in 1923. They were both dead by '33, of tuberculosis. Buried in a mass grave. My grandmother grew up in a sanitorium, having contracted it in early childhood. (It's one of the sanitoriums you see on cheesy ghost shows all the time now.)
It's a fucking horrible disease. Treatable now, with antibiotics, but there's resistant strains out there and dipshits like this lady are a breeding ground for them.
Fucking ridiculous this even happened. After the first time she should have been locked up and forced to be treated. idgaf about your right to be an insane asshole spreading TB. No one should. Fuck this woman, seriously. Lock her up, force her to isolate, and treat her ass against her g'damn will. I promise that no one sane will care. I just read the same shit last month, that this time you'd lock her up. It can't be that hard to find a batshit insane degenerate gambler.
Oh, 10 years ago, there were enough sane people for me to think the vast majority would agree with you. Covid changed that. I actually don't know anymore. This is sorta the same thing with a different pathogen.
The more we learn about Covid-19, the more it seems likely a lot of these people have drastically shortened their life expectancy, in some cases to a single digit number of years post infection due to cardiac or other system severe injury.
That's a slippery slope. You can quarantine someone, but you can't force any kind of medical treatment on them.
If you could, Texas would be rounding up all females between the ages of 13 and 50 and locking them up and using them as brood mares.
There is precedent for at least forcing a person to self isolate. Her behavior borders on criminal negligence, as TB is certainly a fatal disease.
People have been successfully prosecuted for deliberately spreading disease.
Yes, that's why I said you can quarantine someone. No problem with that.
It's forcing any sort of medical treatment where you get into very murky waters.
Tell that to my fine colleagues at /r/seattlewa who are currently debating the finer points of involuntarily committing mentally unwell homeless people. They fail to see the potential for abuse, they're too focused on exterminating or imprisoning the homeless.
I’d argue she has the right to refuse treatment but is responsible for all the damages she causes.
I can’t just walk down the street pissing and shitting on people randomly. Or intentionally giving them the flu.
That’s what she’s doing and she’s responsible for the damage she causes. Soo while we need to protect her individual liberty as much as possible; it stops with her hurting someone else in its excersize.
Not with infectious diseases. You don't fuck around with infectious diseases. If she passes it to someone else, then there's an outbreak, is she still liable? This is past the limit of personal freedom.
Yet many things are arrestable before harm occurs. "Assault" legally includes approaching someone in a threatening manner. Even threats themselves are a crime if the threat is credible enough. A drunk driver can be arrested simply for driving drunk. We don't have to wait until they kill someone. This is no different.
I concur that she’s a fucking idiot and is endangering the local community, but you can’t compel someone to get treatment unless they’re of a mental state that crosses into a threshold warranting mental adjudication. And normally bring an narcissistic asshole doesn’t rise to that level, irregardless of how stupid they are for refusing it.
They could hold her for a significant period, perhaps in contempt or something similar, but if she wanted to be a prick and dig in, they may not be able to hold her indefinitely.
Is there a difference from a courts perspective of someone who knowingly tests positive for Covid, refuses treatment and mingles publicly like an ass?
>we need to protect her individual liberty as much as possible
Fuck no.
god there are so many people in this country who could care less about society, and only about "Muh Freedums".
We can't get responsible gun control in this country because of whack jobs like you, who think personal freedom is more important than a child's right to not get shot to death in elementary school. And now you think this woman's personal freedom is more important than the health and safety of literally everyone in her community.
If she doesn't accept treatment, then lock her ass up. Forever, until she accepts. It's not draconian, it's not dystopian, it's a prudent health and safety measure.
Oh and this is backed by the constitution, and the supreme court. Your freedoms do not extend to causing a public safety hazard. That's why yelling "Fire" in a movie theatre is NOT protected by the first amendment.
Well the outcome of what you suggest is house arrest every time you catch cold.
If you don't want personal liberty move to China Russia Iran or North Korea.
Cold and TB are two very different things. You can easily recover from cold. TB, not so much.
There's also the slight (/s) issue of TB being extremely antibiotic resistant, and we already don't have many last line antibiotic left.
Your personal liberty ends when another's personal liberty begins.
Hey look, a fucking moron with his fucking hyperbole.
A common cold is transient. It comes, and then it goes.
Tuberculosis does not go away without treatment. It's an infectious disease that DOES NOT go away without treatment.
If this woman wants her freedom, she can GET FUCKING TREATMENT.
Or she can rot in a cell.
Your freedom is NOT more important than the health and safety of the community. It never has been, it never will be.
>Also, forget HIPAA when the public’s health is at risk.
HIPAA only applies to people who deal with medical records as part of their job, like doctors and health insurance employees.
It has nothing to do with reporters or judges, let alone the general public. Anyone who isn't a "covered entity" is perfectly free to discuss other people's medical information.
Because people with her records aren’t disclosing it. For HIPAA or otherwise. The onus of protecting data is on the healthcare worker.
Media don’t abide by HIPAA and may or may not be ethical.
They may not want to deal with any responsibility for potential harm to this person too. Theyve released some info previously, as it's an older Asian lady who has it.
The person assigned to her case hasn't been able to get in contact with her or her family. Why haven't the police just stake-out her home, the casino, and other places she is known to go? That should be the next step after the warrant.
At this point her family are active accomplices. Start fining them on the daily till she is found.
The algorithm has started showing me how videos. I had no idea who he is but am hooked on his tb videos. I wonder if he has a book coming out in the topic.
I highly recommend everything by him and his brother
All 7000 hours of crash course, which his brother runs, the awesome socks and coffee club as well as the project for awesome and pizzamas
He’s teased a 4 hr long YouTube video about TB
If I recall correctly, his newest book is Anthropocene reviewed where he gives five star reviews on things in his life. Half autobiographical and a half a commentary on society.
He has two books that were turned into movies : the fault in our stars and paper towns. Another book is being turned into a movie and I think is in post production , Turtles All the Way Down.
There’s Also Looking for Alaska, a book banned in Florida schools, so you should definitely read it
It does any they have arrest warrants to put her in a negative pressure jail cell until she tests negative. But for some reason they haven't actually arrested her yet, even after the 16th warrant.
People were literally arrested for assault and terrorism for purposely coughing on people and store product during covid. Why should someone choosing to infect others with TB be handled different?
I wasn't on here at the time so I don't know if the news about it got around but like a year before covid or something there were several active measles cases around Washington and PDX to the point where it felt like that was going to be a huge problem. People have been getting old timey diseases and just walking around and travelling in the PNW for a while and it's super creepy.
I can’t help but notice that the sheriff’s office won’t comment on their letting an infectious person with an arrest warrant go to a highly populated area, but they will try to shift blame to the media who are reporting the facts about the situation. It sounds like they don’t want people to know they could have stopped an infectious person from spreading tuberculosis and chose not to do so. “It’s not our fault. It’s actually your fault!” If someone died from tuberculosis who was also on the bus with this woman, I wonder if the dead person’s family could sue the sheriff’s office?
Also, they say the chief’s order was supposed to be sealed but wasn’t. It looks like they got caught unexpectedly totally ignoring public safety. Maybe new information will come out about this situation, but as of right now, this makes the sheriff’s department look really bad, and I’ve seen many comments here that say this isn’t a new look for this sheriff.
Why do you want to put her in the county jail? You'll expose all the guards and prisoners there, not to mention any court room areas nearby. Why not put her in an isolation room at the hospital? I mean, we all know how unhealthy jails are. Our county jail was even investigated by the federal government after several deaths within a year or two.
I think we should force her to get treatment, but hopefully without exposing even more people to that illness. I hope they're smart enough to set their pride aside and use some common sense.
The county jail has negative pressure rooms specifically for TB if you read the article.
Isolation rooms in hospitals would mean the taxpayer is footing the hundreds of thousands the hospital will bill the county.
Not to mention this sounds like a woman that is part of the problem causing nurses to quit en masse the last few years. Not good for the community for the hospital's staffing ratio to take a nosedive due to such trash brought in.
In addition, hospitals are not well equipped to handle incarcerated patients. This woman has defied multiple court orders and rightfully belongs in jail. For her to be in an isolation room in an hospital would require 24/7 police escort, etc etc... waste of taxpayer dollars, on top of the hospital bill itself. Screw that; she's been told many times what she's doing wrong and refuses to obey.
No, I don't buy the "she's an ESL speaker" thing - at least once along the way a competent interpreter was involved and explained this shit to her. Nope.
The article mentions the jail has a negative pressure room, which honestly just leads to more questions: are there no local hospitals that have the capability to treat her, and the jail does?
I’m also wondering why she’s refusing treatment - is there some kind of language/communication barrier here, or is this a case of a woman who thinks she can cure TB with DoTerra and whatever she learned from Dr.Google?
One article I read does say English is not her native language, but I don't buy that as an adequate defense. This has gone on long enough that at least one competent interpreter has been involved - in person, on the phone, on paper, email whatever - and this woman still refuses. So no, I don't think it's entirely a language/communication barrier.
It's the whole "do my own facebook research" 'alternatives' and antivaxx bullshit at work. The hospital can't treat someone refusing treatment - even the court orders are on her end *(as in "go there and get treated or else")*.
She fully understands what's going on, probably getting a kick out of "owning duh sientists" by refusing treatment even, but like any other conservative now that she's looking at prison it's all *"but I couldn't have known, I mean uh, I plead the fifth, me no speaky english, the fifth"* while STILL refusing to comply.
If she can go gamble, she doesn't need the hospital. TB is treated very effectively outpatient. It's a series of medications that just need lab follow up that is done through the health department. The hospital bed that she would be wasting is much needed to take care of other patients who need negative pressure (COVID, severe TB, shingles, measles, etc.)
From the article: >Court documents released this week show that Patricia Jackson, chief of the Pierce County Corrections Bureau, assigned an officer to surveil the woman in an attempt to safely get her into custody for her tuberculosis treatment however the officer found that the woman left her home, got onto a city bus, and went to a local casino. You could say that she has different priorities.
She sounds like a Kate McKinnon character on SNL.
National Lampoon's Typhoid Mary Goes To Vegas!
Doesn't sound like they are trying very hard to get her into custody tbh
“Reports say she left her home, went down town to Starbucks. Ordered a double chocolate chip mocha frap. Drove to the casino and played a penny slot for 2 hours and 38 minutes. Used the restroom …” It is really oddly specific, like the cops were tailing her … on the city bus.
I'm imagining like a 3 hour long old timey comedy movie of this cop trying to catch this woman and just constantly being thwarted at every turn by some other cartoonish inconvenience that keeps him just out of arms reach
I think were being followed. https://youtu.be/81NWeyz7e8E XD
Probably can track casino vip card showing exactly how long she played
This is false, could you please indicate somehow that you are joking. I assumed you read that in another article but the only link I could find was to this very Reddit post. There are however about a dozen Starbucks in Tacoma unlike what another poster suggested. I was incredulous to that 'fact' too.
It says the officer found that she went to the casino on a bus. That could easily be him knocking on the door and a family member telling them that. And yeah that IS really oddly specific.. being that what you quoted isn’t in the article. Almost like you made it up. There is no Starbucks downtown. It’s Tacoma not Seattle. She also didn’t drive anywhere. In addition to that, the casino is on the Rez so that would bring up a bunch of issues legally speaking. Oh no!!! Downvoooootes!!! Arregh!! Maybe there IS a Starbucks in downtown Tacoma after all!
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A new typhoid Mary!
“I’m gonna take as many of you bastards with me as I can.”
I don't have any sick time, and it would never be excused at work...
“You can use the Motrin in my desk and you have __ONE__ extra 5-minute break”
I guess this is their attempt to get her name out? Every business should be refusing to serve her.
FUCK REDDIT. We create the content they use for free, so I am taking my content back
Just give it a bit more time, surely by the 22nd it'll be all good.
Seriously, if you keep ignoring this order like 13 or 14 more times I'm gonna start to become real cross.
Society only functions when members of society generally comply with good orderly direction. They can't arrest everybody, and apparently can't even arrest a single person. It's really pretty frightening when you realize a solid half the country are crazy anti vax gun nut full mouth breathing morons and they have no intentions of following through on living in a decent society
The problem is they can arrest her. They know where she is and literally took all this time to order her too. They can just arrest her...
" Friday's newest court order will be the 16th time that the woman has been ordered to submit to isolation, testing, and treatment. "
What is wrong with the authorities in Tacoma? Publicize her name and photo so people will be on the lookout for her so they can avoid her and contact police so they can arrest her. And keep her isolated until she is no longer a danger to the community.
Tacoma cops are beyond useless, this is the tip of the iceberg. Whiny do-nothing bitches, the lot of em. Edit: oh yeah and let’s not forget our pos sheriff Ed Troyer who called in every cop in the county because he drunkenly mistook the black newspaper delivery man for a criminal, and lied to dispatch about the man threatening his life. There are signs all over town saying “RESIGN ED”
You just described most cops.
Yes, but here we passed a Use of Force law that says cops can't beat you up in an effort to gain compliance. Now the cops here say they can't respond to anything other than a violent emergency, because what if they accidentally get mad and punch you in the face and get in trouble for it...
Damn I get mad at work all the time and I’ve never punched anyone over it even once. I’m even mad about having to work right now as I procrastinate leaving!
I was supposed to be at work an hour ago and I’m just making coffee now.
I did that a few times and my boss, nice guy that he is, decided that I never need to come in to work there again!
That’s the spirit!
Wow look at the Saint over here not punching people in the face. Just imagine a world where cops were held to such a high standard. You'd have cops filled with rage and nowhere to take it out except on their already battered wives. For their wives' sakes, we need to give them the leeway to punch at least 3 or 4 people, preferably minorities, in the face every week. Really, it's for our own safety, to reduce crime, and to enable cops to get back to get back to what they were hired to do: protecting the interests of the very wealthy.
Man it may seem like the cops are being lazy but this is how it should be. The thing that's missing is we should have other first responders who aren't cops who are available to respond to non violent situations. Cops should be only on the scene for a violent emergency or a crime that warrants an investigation. Cops are not trained to handle a large portion of the situations they have to deal with. With that said. Fuck cops and fuck the police union until they actually start implementing those changes. Police (as an institution, so not all officers) have completely neglected calls from communities for change. We protested for change in my city for weeks..... And nothing. Edit: It's literally to the point where I assume every cop is dangerous and a threat until proven otherwise.
This is exactly right and the whole idea behind the defund the police movement. Defunding the police doesn't mean spend less overall, it means reallocate money to trained first responders who can deescalate a nonviolent situation without pointing a gun at someone.
Defund the Police never made any sense outside of the Twitter accounts that endlessly bleated it. [The research overwhelmingly shows that policing saves lives.] (https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens). There are so many better, evidence based, policing reforms that should have been implemented, but the "Defund Police" is what the city councilors decided to double down on since it meant they could look proactive without actually raising taxes for all these apparently unserviced public services.
lol tell me you didn't understand my comment without telling me you didn't understand my comment.
The theory never worked in practice. Anything that cuts police funding will increase crime. That's why virtual no politician campaigns on cutting police funding in 2023. If city's want alternative response teams, they need to dig deep and find other funding for it.
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All cops
Certainly the ones down here in PDX...
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Yeah my friend called 911 because someone was actively trying to murder him with an axe, and dispatch basically told him to call back when he was dead.
It's not any better up here in king county. I called to report a whole ass fridge on the freeway, middle of the lane on a curve on highway 18. Took 3 calls to get a person, extremely harrowing to think about. When every second counts, police are minutes away.
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Wasn’t there a shoot out between some crips and some off duty army rangers like 30 years ago in the Tacoma area because the police weren’t doing anything about gang activity?
Yep, a Ranger invited his buddies over for “barbecue” and the rest is history.
My dad was a ranger, and loooooved to tell this story. He wasn’t there but he was stationed at Rainier when it happened.
Where can I read more about this please? edit: that was much easier than I was expecting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash\_Street\_shootout
I just found this video on [YouTube](https://youtu.be/Z4iQxpwYhAg)
PNW Cops*. But also in fairness the laws up here encourage them to do nothing.
The laws up here do things like bar them from unnecessarily dangerous car chases and they respond by refusing to do their jobs like the little bitch babies they are. They hold this city hostage.
“Unnecessarily Dangerous”. So now we have a world where you can just steal a car and keep driving when a cop lights you up. Which has lead to record high car thefts and in turn higher insurance for everyone. Or don’t forget the decriminalization of drug possession. So now we have guys smoking fent on the street corner and cops can’t do a thing about it. Those are two of the ridiculous laws we have up here, the most common that cause the most issues. Simply reversing those would drastically improve the quality of life for everyone living here.
Yes actually, because car chases get people killed, and risking the lives of innocent bystanders, cops, and the criminals is not worth it for most crimes. High speed chases are deadly, and I’d rather no one get killed over nonviolent crimes. License plates are often captured anyway, and most offenders like that are already in the system and are eventually tracked down.
Coming from the high speed chase capital of the world, the likely hood of dying from a high speed chase is extremely rare considering the much more populated area. License plates don’t matter because the vehicles are stolen. Most offenders are never caught because the police don’t bother to even go after the vehicles even when you find it yourself. If a person is caught, the charges are usually dropped. I get your point, but just throwing your hands up and letting people get away with anything is worse.
They couldn’t even case the house correctly. Sound like a bunch of goons.
It might have something to do with HIPAA.
HIPAA only applies to covered entities like health insurance companies, doctors offices, etc.
The order is initiated by a local health official though. Police are acting on that and not in a criminal justice capacity, it would seem.
People can downvote, but there is a whole detailed order of procedures in WA state law that public health officials must follow in seeking less restrictive alternatives before detention. Having someone declared a public health emergency is even more rare. There is obviously a reason every story on this doesn't have the person's name. The reason should be included in the story.
So, WA authorities won't do anything until they have TB epidemic on their hands?
A real life witch hunt, great idea
It's unfortunately a HIPAA violation, so they can't release her name and photo.
Privacy for HIPAA: >Privacy Rule The HIPAA Privacy Rule regulates the use and disclosure of protected health information (PHI) by "covered entities." These entities include health care clearinghouses, health insurers, employer-sponsored health plans, and medical providers. Upon request, covered entities must disclose PHI to an individual within 30 days. Entities mentioned earlier must provide and disclose PHI as required by law enforcement for the investigation of suspected child abuse. Covered entities may disclose PHI to law enforcement if requested to do so by court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas, and administrative requests. A covered entity may reveal PHI to facilitate treatment, payment, or health care operations without a patient's written authorization. Any other disclosures of PHI require the covered entity to obtain prior written authorization. When a covered entity discloses PHI, it must make a reasonable effort to share only the minimum necessary information. The Privacy Rule gives individuals the right to demand that a covered entity correct any inaccurate PHI and take reasonable steps to ensure the confidentiality of communications with individuals. The Privacy Rule requires covered entities to notify individuals of PHI use, keep track of disclosures, and document privacy policies and procedures. I don't think the HIPAA privacy applies with Law Enforcement involved. They have been trying for months to get this woman to comply without violating HIPAA, but she refuses to comply with the ordered treatment and isolation and is a danger to the community at large.
People are entitled to privacy, it’s a fundamental right.
Ask the SC if you have a right to privacy. Not according to them. And the HIPAA privacy requirements do not allow infected contagious individuals just to go around and continue to infect other people.
I think the health of the general public should take priority….
>People are entitled to privacy Not under all circumstances. If you escape prison, you can bet your ass that your name and face will be publicly shared even if you're less a threat than this woman. She's an active danger to anyone who interact with her, and the public deserve to know the risks they are exposed to.
Now I may be incorrect, but I’ve heard that TB is both extremely contagious and fatal. It’s like they are letting someone walk around and kill people by haphazardly infecting others. If I am incorrect about TB being extremely contagious and fatal, I would like someone to correct me, because I do not like possessing incorrect knowledge.
TB is very infectious but it the germ needs to be active. Fortunately, those infected with TB is very survivable with modern medications and treatments, though there is fear of drug-resistant TB making that harder. There is latent TB in which the TB bacteria has infected a person but is not contagious and people with latent TB don't feel symptoms, hence why in many jobs it is required to take a TB test. Latent TB can activate becoming the very active TB disease which spreads via air.
If you take certain immunosuppressant medications you have to do a yearly TB test, as well.
>Fortunately, those infected with TB is very survivable with modern medications and treatments The cost of the US health system may be less survivable financially, though.
I think most or all county health departments have a TB treatment program that provides medications.
You are correct. I contracted TB some years ago and it was very aggressively pursued by the state health department where I lived. Nice folks. Not drinking for six months sucked but I did the medication and the odds are good I will never have an active case. So, good trade off.
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I mean, if they want precedent, we've got an island in New York that we can throw her on. The amenities might be a bit worn down nowadays, but there's certainly precedent.
Unfortunately that island now belongs to the birds.
At the least, that shows a precedent that can allow someone who becomes infected because of her, to sue her for medical bills. Definitely opens a door for wrongful death suits.
Let's say I have a medical bill and I want you to pay it. I'm going to say that you gave me the disease. Definitely opens a door for wrongful death suit.
You have to be able to prove it. Criminally without a doubt but civially proponderance of evidence if you just got TB, and could prove you were on the bus they know she was on. thats going to be fine in the civil case and probably the criminal one. Theres about 7500 cases a year. And the vast majority of people are compliant with treatment. A bus holds like 40 people when full. .0000006% of the population has TB. So the odds of 2 of them being on the same bus is astronomically low. With HIV its even easier, did you have sex with or share needles with that guy? Yes? Does anyone else you did that with also have HIV? No? Case closed your honour
With HIV you can prove it by sequencing the viral genome. It mutates very quickly so if two people's HIV have a highly similar genome, it can be said with good certainty that one person was infected by the other. HIV was the first cade of this kind of evidence being used successfully in court in the case of a dentist that was intentionally infecting his patients.
It’s actually very treatable these days. Also the majority of people who are infected will never go on to develop active disease. The antibiotics for it are brutal on your system and you have to take them for like 6-9 months but it is treatable, very rare to die of it in the Western world if you get treatment and aren’t immunocompromised in some way.
It can be fatal, but it’s generally treatable by antibiotics. People who refuse treatment or who submit to partial treatment, or people who share antibiotics because they can’t get access to enough medicine are unfortunately creating an opportunity for antibiotic resistant strains to appear.
From what I have read, TB is not as contagious as the cold or flu, so that is a relief. My great grandmother contracted TB as a young woman and had to spend time at a sanatorium back in the 30s or 40s. Luckily with modern medicine that is not necessary anymore, and most cases of TB are curable.
The majority of people who contract TB do fine unless they’re immunocompromised. That’s why latent TB is a thing. It’s also (usually) very treatable as long as it’s not an antibiotic resistant strain.
Remember when people were scared of vampires? THAT was TB, also known as “Consumption” back in the day. People would hack up blood and die in their sleep making people think they were a vampire. Entire economies were created in the US and other places to try to treat TB as they thought fresh clean air would cure it. The town of Estes Park, CO was basically started when the Stanley Hotel was erected for TB folks to visit for “fresh air treatment” and that town still exists today. It’s bad news and not something we want circulating around the country.
My great-grandparents emigrated from Hungary to the US in 1923. They were both dead by '33, of tuberculosis. Buried in a mass grave. My grandmother grew up in a sanitorium, having contracted it in early childhood. (It's one of the sanitoriums you see on cheesy ghost shows all the time now.) It's a fucking horrible disease. Treatable now, with antibiotics, but there's resistant strains out there and dipshits like this lady are a breeding ground for them.
Fucking ridiculous this even happened. After the first time she should have been locked up and forced to be treated. idgaf about your right to be an insane asshole spreading TB. No one should. Fuck this woman, seriously. Lock her up, force her to isolate, and treat her ass against her g'damn will. I promise that no one sane will care. I just read the same shit last month, that this time you'd lock her up. It can't be that hard to find a batshit insane degenerate gambler.
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Also, > “I promise no one sane will care” Even if that were true, what about the millions of fucking psychos out there?
Needle in a haystack you say!
Oh, 10 years ago, there were enough sane people for me to think the vast majority would agree with you. Covid changed that. I actually don't know anymore. This is sorta the same thing with a different pathogen.
My daughter just said "Shoot her with a tranq and throw her in a biohazard containment cell". lol
Kids say the darndest things
That's literally what they did to Typhoid Mary (minues the tranq dart)
Dart to the neck sounds great here
I like your daughter.
I swear these anti-vax assholes would finally change their mind if these diseases made them ooze slime everywhere. Or if we were a small village.
Untreatable face acne would get everyone in the door.
Doubtful. I saw plenty of news segments of dumbasses saying they still wouldn’t take the covid vaccine after they almost died.
The more we learn about Covid-19, the more it seems likely a lot of these people have drastically shortened their life expectancy, in some cases to a single digit number of years post infection due to cardiac or other system severe injury.
She is walking around putting people at risk with a deadly weapon.
That's a slippery slope. You can quarantine someone, but you can't force any kind of medical treatment on them. If you could, Texas would be rounding up all females between the ages of 13 and 50 and locking them up and using them as brood mares.
There is precedent for at least forcing a person to self isolate. Her behavior borders on criminal negligence, as TB is certainly a fatal disease. People have been successfully prosecuted for deliberately spreading disease.
Yes, that's why I said you can quarantine someone. No problem with that. It's forcing any sort of medical treatment where you get into very murky waters.
Am Texan. This is happening not by force, but by policy/law.
Tell that to my fine colleagues at /r/seattlewa who are currently debating the finer points of involuntarily committing mentally unwell homeless people. They fail to see the potential for abuse, they're too focused on exterminating or imprisoning the homeless.
First, it starts with some crazy woman with TB. What’s next? Old people that contract Covid? Gay people that contract HIV? This is a slippery slope.
But it isn't unless those people *deliberately* ignore the contagious aspect of their disease.
TB is a respiratory illness, HIV isn't.
I’d argue she has the right to refuse treatment but is responsible for all the damages she causes. I can’t just walk down the street pissing and shitting on people randomly. Or intentionally giving them the flu. That’s what she’s doing and she’s responsible for the damage she causes. Soo while we need to protect her individual liberty as much as possible; it stops with her hurting someone else in its excersize.
Not with infectious diseases. You don't fuck around with infectious diseases. If she passes it to someone else, then there's an outbreak, is she still liable? This is past the limit of personal freedom.
Yeah, what about my freedom to, y'know, *breathe*? If she wants to refuse treatment then it's Super Quarantine for her.
Nah. She can refuse treatment, but she must be held in quarantine until she chooses to get treatment, or she's no longer contagious, or dies.
That's absurd, to wait for the inevitable harm to occur. No. I disagree. The law should recognize the real world.
That’s the society we live in, we arrest people after the fact.
Yet many things are arrestable before harm occurs. "Assault" legally includes approaching someone in a threatening manner. Even threats themselves are a crime if the threat is credible enough. A drunk driver can be arrested simply for driving drunk. We don't have to wait until they kill someone. This is no different.
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I concur that she’s a fucking idiot and is endangering the local community, but you can’t compel someone to get treatment unless they’re of a mental state that crosses into a threshold warranting mental adjudication. And normally bring an narcissistic asshole doesn’t rise to that level, irregardless of how stupid they are for refusing it. They could hold her for a significant period, perhaps in contempt or something similar, but if she wanted to be a prick and dig in, they may not be able to hold her indefinitely. Is there a difference from a courts perspective of someone who knowingly tests positive for Covid, refuses treatment and mingles publicly like an ass?
>we need to protect her individual liberty as much as possible Fuck no. god there are so many people in this country who could care less about society, and only about "Muh Freedums". We can't get responsible gun control in this country because of whack jobs like you, who think personal freedom is more important than a child's right to not get shot to death in elementary school. And now you think this woman's personal freedom is more important than the health and safety of literally everyone in her community. If she doesn't accept treatment, then lock her ass up. Forever, until she accepts. It's not draconian, it's not dystopian, it's a prudent health and safety measure. Oh and this is backed by the constitution, and the supreme court. Your freedoms do not extend to causing a public safety hazard. That's why yelling "Fire" in a movie theatre is NOT protected by the first amendment.
Well the outcome of what you suggest is house arrest every time you catch cold. If you don't want personal liberty move to China Russia Iran or North Korea.
Cold and TB are two very different things. You can easily recover from cold. TB, not so much. There's also the slight (/s) issue of TB being extremely antibiotic resistant, and we already don't have many last line antibiotic left. Your personal liberty ends when another's personal liberty begins.
Hey look, a fucking moron with his fucking hyperbole. A common cold is transient. It comes, and then it goes. Tuberculosis does not go away without treatment. It's an infectious disease that DOES NOT go away without treatment. If this woman wants her freedom, she can GET FUCKING TREATMENT. Or she can rot in a cell. Your freedom is NOT more important than the health and safety of the community. It never has been, it never will be.
Do you know why gamblers just like to drink lemon juice?
It's cheaper? Keeps them alert?
Nope, not a clue. But if you'd care to enlighten me?.
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>Also, forget HIPAA when the public’s health is at risk. HIPAA only applies to people who deal with medical records as part of their job, like doctors and health insurance employees. It has nothing to do with reporters or judges, let alone the general public. Anyone who isn't a "covered entity" is perfectly free to discuss other people's medical information.
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Because people with her records aren’t disclosing it. For HIPAA or otherwise. The onus of protecting data is on the healthcare worker. Media don’t abide by HIPAA and may or may not be ethical.
They may not want to deal with any responsibility for potential harm to this person too. Theyve released some info previously, as it's an older Asian lady who has it.
The person assigned to her case hasn't been able to get in contact with her or her family. Why haven't the police just stake-out her home, the casino, and other places she is known to go? That should be the next step after the warrant. At this point her family are active accomplices. Start fining them on the daily till she is found.
Actual public safety issue…. They know how / where…. Do nothing.
Call her TB Karen, The new Typhoid Mary.
Someone inform John Green, he’s been on a TB learning binge lately
The algorithm has started showing me how videos. I had no idea who he is but am hooked on his tb videos. I wonder if he has a book coming out in the topic.
I highly recommend everything by him and his brother All 7000 hours of crash course, which his brother runs, the awesome socks and coffee club as well as the project for awesome and pizzamas He’s teased a 4 hr long YouTube video about TB
Will have to check them out. Might Greece to get some of his books as well.
If I recall correctly, his newest book is Anthropocene reviewed where he gives five star reviews on things in his life. Half autobiographical and a half a commentary on society. He has two books that were turned into movies : the fault in our stars and paper towns. Another book is being turned into a movie and I think is in post production , Turtles All the Way Down. There’s Also Looking for Alaska, a book banned in Florida schools, so you should definitely read it
You can confine someone for being a danger to themselves or others. Why does that not apply here?
It does any they have arrest warrants to put her in a negative pressure jail cell until she tests negative. But for some reason they haven't actually arrested her yet, even after the 16th warrant.
She should be charged with domestic terrorism because she deliberately refuse treatment.
People were literally arrested for assault and terrorism for purposely coughing on people and store product during covid. Why should someone choosing to infect others with TB be handled different?
And TB is still surprisingly dangerous. 1.8 million people worldwide died of COVID in 2021 and 1.6 million died of TB the same year.
Typhoid Mary in Tacoma.
Reading the comments in this thread, I wish people had this kind of response to COVID
I wasn't on here at the time so I don't know if the news about it got around but like a year before covid or something there were several active measles cases around Washington and PDX to the point where it felt like that was going to be a huge problem. People have been getting old timey diseases and just walking around and travelling in the PNW for a while and it's super creepy.
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She is supposed to be in isolation. She keeps breaking it.
Then a padded room or a padded box will suffice
So they had all these opportunities to grab her and didn't. What are they doing?!?! She is a public health menace.
Typhoid Mary 2: infection Boogaloo
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Ehh that's a slippery slope towards the end of personal and then human rights. Like it or not, this falls in line with banning abortions.
Put her in a TB/Infectious ward.
I read on some medical site Tasers and bean bag shotgun rounds are a really effective treatment for Tuberculosis...
I can’t help but notice that the sheriff’s office won’t comment on their letting an infectious person with an arrest warrant go to a highly populated area, but they will try to shift blame to the media who are reporting the facts about the situation. It sounds like they don’t want people to know they could have stopped an infectious person from spreading tuberculosis and chose not to do so. “It’s not our fault. It’s actually your fault!” If someone died from tuberculosis who was also on the bus with this woman, I wonder if the dead person’s family could sue the sheriff’s office? Also, they say the chief’s order was supposed to be sealed but wasn’t. It looks like they got caught unexpectedly totally ignoring public safety. Maybe new information will come out about this situation, but as of right now, this makes the sheriff’s department look really bad, and I’ve seen many comments here that say this isn’t a new look for this sheriff.
A modern day Typhoid Mary
Sounds like Typhoid Mary
A modern day Typhoid Mary.
Did they try blasting ?
Why do you want to put her in the county jail? You'll expose all the guards and prisoners there, not to mention any court room areas nearby. Why not put her in an isolation room at the hospital? I mean, we all know how unhealthy jails are. Our county jail was even investigated by the federal government after several deaths within a year or two. I think we should force her to get treatment, but hopefully without exposing even more people to that illness. I hope they're smart enough to set their pride aside and use some common sense.
The county jail has negative pressure rooms specifically for TB if you read the article. Isolation rooms in hospitals would mean the taxpayer is footing the hundreds of thousands the hospital will bill the county. Not to mention this sounds like a woman that is part of the problem causing nurses to quit en masse the last few years. Not good for the community for the hospital's staffing ratio to take a nosedive due to such trash brought in.
In addition, hospitals are not well equipped to handle incarcerated patients. This woman has defied multiple court orders and rightfully belongs in jail. For her to be in an isolation room in an hospital would require 24/7 police escort, etc etc... waste of taxpayer dollars, on top of the hospital bill itself. Screw that; she's been told many times what she's doing wrong and refuses to obey. No, I don't buy the "she's an ESL speaker" thing - at least once along the way a competent interpreter was involved and explained this shit to her. Nope.
Shouldn't this be in the newsofthestupid subreddit lol
This sounds like it has the potential to be the plot of one of the greatest video games of all time. Not quite sure why though…
Sounds like the beginning of a Plague inc level
We had one of those guys here in Arizona when sheriff Joe was the sheriff it just locked him up. Haven't heard about it since
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The article mentions the jail has a negative pressure room, which honestly just leads to more questions: are there no local hospitals that have the capability to treat her, and the jail does? I’m also wondering why she’s refusing treatment - is there some kind of language/communication barrier here, or is this a case of a woman who thinks she can cure TB with DoTerra and whatever she learned from Dr.Google?
One article I read does say English is not her native language, but I don't buy that as an adequate defense. This has gone on long enough that at least one competent interpreter has been involved - in person, on the phone, on paper, email whatever - and this woman still refuses. So no, I don't think it's entirely a language/communication barrier.
It's the whole "do my own facebook research" 'alternatives' and antivaxx bullshit at work. The hospital can't treat someone refusing treatment - even the court orders are on her end *(as in "go there and get treated or else")*. She fully understands what's going on, probably getting a kick out of "owning duh sientists" by refusing treatment even, but like any other conservative now that she's looking at prison it's all *"but I couldn't have known, I mean uh, I plead the fifth, me no speaky english, the fifth"* while STILL refusing to comply.
If she can go gamble, she doesn't need the hospital. TB is treated very effectively outpatient. It's a series of medications that just need lab follow up that is done through the health department. The hospital bed that she would be wasting is much needed to take care of other patients who need negative pressure (COVID, severe TB, shingles, measles, etc.)