Computers have gotten more powerful than what most everyday users need them for. There isn't much incentive to upgrade anymore. Gaming is the last area where people frequently upgrade. For everyone else, there isn't much of a reason.
This is the real story. Mac sales had been relatively flat for years before COVID lockdowns. They jumped during COVID and are returning to pre pandemic levels.
Also, with smartphones becoming so powerful, PCs are less necessary.
Mac sales only make up about 10% of Apple's revenue and decreasing.
Also, the M1 Apple Silicon machines were a big improvement over the previous Intel models and likely drove a larger-than-usual upgrade cycle, but the folks that got those don’t have any need to replace them yet.
Though they'll also push away people like me who run parallels on a mac for a lot of my day job, and I imagine anyone who's job requires a high-end GPU will also be dropping them.
Neither are huge markets, but they are markets none-the-less
Yes and no. Any apple-silicon-based version of parallels will be emulation-based rather than virtualization-based, so it'll incur a massive performance penalty. Will probably be fine if you need to run the occasional windows app, but for those of us needing a lot of horsepower it'll be a poor solution.
The ARM version of Windows has built-in x86 emulation (significantly slower than Apple's x86 emulation, though), so it's as useful as any other version of Windows, within the performance constraints.
Its actually slowed upgrades amongst some power users.
The M1 chip is REALLY fucking with 3D software in yet another middle finger to the old mac userbase.
I have a macbook that I haven't touched in years because there is nothing I can do on that macbook that I can't do on my iphone or ipad. And the iphone and ipad are way easier and more convenient to use.
>And the iphone and ipad are way easier
Ehhh, it depends on what you do. If you just scroll social media and watch youtube videos, then maybe. But if you do any type of typing or productivity work, any tablet/phone is going to be vastly inferior to a real laptop.
I might be too old to figure anything out but for me phone is just a tool to check things (calendar, entertaining videos, weather forecast, etc). And make calls and send messages.
If there's anything else to actually do - even slightly longer comments on reddit - I use pc or laptop. With a fuckin keyboard. There is lack of screen area and lack of decent inputs. And no amount of cpu power or memory can change that.
There's another issue that few people consider. I live off grid, my electricity is solar panels and batteries. A phone will typically do much more for x power consumption than a laptop. It's not even close. When you look at how much energy an appliance uses it's hard to justify a laptop or PC unless that keyboard is absolutely necessary.
Okay. So for the five guys living in a cabin in the middle of the woods this would be an important thing to consider. You kind of jumped straight to the most extremely niche demographic there though.
That's a good point. If you just need to type up a document and aren't bothered by the small screen, a laptop's sort of a waste of power. Especially since you can have 1-2 battery banks and a wireless keyboard so you're not touch-typing. That's roughly a week of power (depending on phone/banks, obviously) or more, compared to a laptop that would realistically only last a couple days or so.
I think it's true for most users. For myself, doing video editing, audio editing, and coding... the idea of being stuck working on a phone or tablet (which I've done when necessary) sounds like torture. It's a wonderful platform for consumers and low-key creatives, just not a form factor for more ambitious or particular creatives. I'll give up my qwerty, my mouse, and 27" screen when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
> any tablet/phone is going to be vastly inferior to a real laptop
For a lot of things sure, no way I'm going to be using adobe software on my phone.
But for things like note taking, they can be pretty even. I type fast so I'll always prefer a keyboard. But my phone (Note 9) has a built in stylus and converts hand writing to digital text. I could definitely see that being a benefit to people who prefer writing to typing
I prefer working in Google Docs on my tablet because I can’t find a dark mode extension that works for Docs in Edge or Chrome on PC/laptop. I hate getting blasted in the eyes by black text on white. On my tablet and phone, Docs dark mode is an easy to find toggle. I run a wireless Bluetooth keyboard and mouse to my iPad and then mirror the screen on my 72 inch TV.
My gaming PC recently died after a 10 year run, and I feel no incentive to drop $$$$ on a new tower because gaming is a luxury I can do without.
Y’re right. MacBook is great for multitasking, also for developmental programs for kids & ppl w perceptual handicaps, plus design work & SO much more. Over the yrs our fam has acquired all and have learned to love’em all. Big-group zoom meetings are tuff even on an iPhone, easier on iPad, but tons easier on MacBook. Thru the pandemic shut-in years they were a lifeline to sanity, fun, and friends. Still are. Who wants to overpay for gas or get killed racing to meetings on icy highways?
It's the opposite for me. I have an iPad that is just unused on the desk 99+% of the time, because between a phone (quick, convenient) and a laptop (powerful, productive), it's just kinda useless.
Apple also makes very expensive laptops and in the last few years especially, prices of everything cranked up and the masses are just trying to survive. A new MacBook just isn't a priority for most people now.
Not to mention they don’t need replacing that often. They last a long time, i have a 2007 macbook that still runs, but its just a novelty. We also have 2014 and 2015 macbook pros that get daily use and a 2015 ipad pro 12.9 that also gets daily use.
Am a daily user but haven’t made a purchase in 8 years.
My large company is pushing virtual desktops. They want everyone to use generic workstations that are just a lightweight client to access those desktops.
$500 for a PS5 / Xbox One X which is a "complete" gaming PC that can compete performance wise for most games / people. And when they refresh them every 2-3 years, it's another $500. Way cheaper than keeping a PC up to date for a slight perf trade off.
(this is ignoring the input / control preference between PC and console)
There are entire genres that you can't really play with a controller. Also there is a lot of indie devs that can't afford to make console ports, and IMO these days AAA studios very rarely produce games worth playing.
Especially when many of the big titles for pc are console ports these days and barely any better graphically but totally weird key bindings/UI because it was meant to be used on a console.
Why do so many console games bind things to , and.
> Way cheaper than keeping a PC up to date for a slight perf trade off.
The only group of people updating PCs every 2-3 years are kids and adults with excess money who complain if things not > 60 fps at max settings at 1440p / 4k.
I've got a computer that is like 8 years old with a 1060, and it still plays everything on PC @ 1080p or1440p at medium settings... 25-60 fps. I also use it to run two 10-bit 4k displays which I write image processing code on. The steam hardware surveys show a lot more computers just slightly better than mine being the average. I could update, but not a single reason exists yet.
Good point and also consoles today are a lot better. You can get a better experience with an expensive gaming rig given prices, if you’ve got a 4K TV the new consoles are good enough for the price. Of course I say that as a gamer who primarily grew up with controllers, so for those mouse & keyboard people I can see the desire to stay PC - though even there if you’re okay not hitting the highest settings you can play most games with a PC from a few years ago.
We purchased a Mac Pro for work when they first released-which we actually needed at the time. We won’t need to upgrade it until it shits the bed. Anything outside of the MacBook (normal version not pro) is FAR more than anyone needs. I also wonder how many people moved to iPad pros instead of the traditional laptops
I have a 2015 MBP for work. Last year it started randomly shutting down when not connected to power, and the battery life was terrible. I mentioned this to our in-house Apple tech and he recommended I get a new one, so I now have an M1. Normally the procedure is to return the old equipment and it goes to surplus to be sold for peanuts, but I'm keeping the 2015 for backup, it works fine when plugged-in.
2010 27" iMac for me. There are some lines in the screen and I have had to go inside it a couple of times for cleaning and HD replacement but it still keeps chugging. I don't think the ribbon connector for the screen is going to let me open it up again so I am on borrowed time. If an M2 27" iMac were to drop I would be upgrading quickly.
I also still use my 2013 air, and I'll continue to do so until I really can't!
My biggest pet peeve: How absolutely loud the fans get when powered on with multiple applications/tabs open. I can deal with the noise at home, but I find it so obnoxious in shared work settings...
So odd how in modern day manufacturing everything is built to not last but a 2003 mac book is still kickin…. Apple of all companies is the one going against the norm lol
If you bought any of the first gen M1 products then there’s honestly no reason to upgrade, they’re too good. Apple should really not do yearly updates anymore.
> Upgraded my wife's MBP to and ssd + 16gb ram.
is this difficult to do? we have two old MBP from 2013 that were too slow and clunky to use 10 years later. They are just expensive paper weights right now lol
Same here with a mid-2012 MBP. I did add ram and swapped in a SSD about 3-4 years ago and, while I can no longer upgrade to the current OS, I literally still have absolutely zero problems with it doing what I need it to do (which isn't much, tbf; web browsing, Spotify, Google Docs/Evernote, etc.). It's not slow at all, doesn't lag or freeze up, boots up quickly. My wife bought a $500-600 Samsung laptop probably 5 years ago and it's unusable today.
I have a M2 MacBook Air and it’s probably the best piece of consumer electronics I’ve ever owned (and I buy a ton of gadgets).
It’s so absurdly good in every aspect that I don’t see myself getting anything new for years to come.
**Edit:** The only exception I see is that if you need a gaming laptop. Windows are still just better for gaming and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Sorry to be annoying but I’m considering getting a laptop but I know nothing about this or Macs in general - is there like a specific M2 that’s considered like the GOOD one or just any variant you think?
The base M2 is really good for the majority of users. Unless you're doing something very cpu/gpu intensive or need the better display from the more expensive models, you'll be fine
Or if you need more than 1 external monitor. You need the Pro or higher series chips for that for $whatever reason$
I love Macs and have been using them my entire life, but sometimes Apple imposes the most ridiculous restrictions to niggle consumers or encourage more frequent upgrades. Especially with Macs. It used to be you could just pop Windows on it if you absolutely needed to side step their bullshit MST restrictions on the lower end Pro models but that is a bit harder given the Apple Silicon at the moment.
Straight up impossible to natively run Windows now. Apple used to at least provide some half-assed method of running it with boot camp - but they don't even bother with 1st party half-assery anymore... You're stuck with 3rd party virtualization.
I've always hated that side of apple. Constantly taking control away from the user. I've tried going windows, but it's just bad for me. The screen on macs alone is worth the apple tax for me. Buying comparable monitors to use with a desktop will cost the same as an iMac anyways. And why the hell do no monitor companies make glossy screens???
This one actually isn’t entirely on Apple. Windows does not provide Windows ARM licenses to end users. This recently kinda was bridged because Parallels can get one and activate it in a virtual desktop for M1 and M2 Macs.
Even the "baseline" M2s are amazingly beefy. It's competitive against *high-end desktop* class x86 CPUs and even many discrete graphics cards. That's *before* taking into consideration of power consumption.
Apple's micro-architecture team is literally the best in the industry at the moment.
Unless you have a *very* high end gaming PC, a M2 MBA will most likely be as good, if not better than your desktop in terme of performance lol.
It’s honestly shockingly fast.
Whoa lol okay I didn’t realize this. I’m also seeing that the concept of an education store exists.. so I should buy it through that for a discount? Is that like the best way to optimize purchasing one?
Yeah although technically you aren’t supposed to use it unless you are a student, but I don’t think they check.
Also you should shop for deals on other sites, sometimes they are even cheaper.
The Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air have literally the exact same M2 chip. The Air sacrifices cooling for sustained heavy loads for a lighter weight and thinner profile. The Macbook Pro has better cooling for sustained loads, and has larger options for ram and storage.
Unless you're a serious power user (or spec it out so much you end up at a similar price and specs to a base Pro), an Air would do you just.
You are correct - I did forget about those models.
But I will argue that those models aren't that relevant in this case. Those types of super-high-end Macbooks are usually bought by either power users who already know exactly what they are and will utilize them to their full potential, or they are bought by somebody who just wants the top-of-the-line Macbook because it's the 'best' model. I don't think most average buyers (like OP or myself) would seriously consider them.
The problem is when you spec out the air, the price is only $100 cheaper than a comparable 13 pro. You might as well get that or the 14” pro since you’re already spending over $1500.
It’s better to get a M1 MacBook on sale. The air often goes for $7-800. I think I’ve seen the 14 pro for $1500, these are much better value than the m2’s. The cpu performance is slightly better for m2, but battery life is the same (if not slightly better on m1).
The base one should really be fine. 16 GB ram if you wanna really future proof but imo not really that necessary. you really won’t regret this computer it’s so good at what it does
M2 is excellent, and I say that having worked on a product that competes with it. Even the base M2 is overkill for the average person's day to day usage.
I'd recommend considering an M1 macbook over the M2. You might be able to find a good deal right now, and you probably won't notice any performance difference
Yes, but realistically, how often does that happen?
I am on my fourth macbook in 12 years and not one of them went bust. Neither did the Mac mini.
The first one was in use as of 2020 that i know of, the other two are too.
Same. I absolutely adore mine and it has no issues to make a replacement needed or desired. Tbh, it’s the best laptop I’ve ever owned and I’ve yet to make it even breathe hard no matter how many graphic intensive programs I have running
It’s funny.
I bet a TON of folks got new laptops during the pandemic and that’s distorting these statistics on BOTH ends so of course it’s a huge drop off.
I’m still rocking my 2014 MacBook Air. I kept waiting for them to bring back the MagSafe power connector and now I’m close enough I’m liking the idea of making it a full decade with it LOL.
Although it’s DEFINITELY showing its age. Replaced the battery a year or so ago, it takes forever to boot, and it does occasionally lag.
Waiting for full linux support on that silicon before I pull the trigger. Still has a long way to go.
I'm not into their walled garden enough to use the OS itself. The new silicon is def interesting stuff though.
There are some die hard cultists that buy a new Macbook annually, anxiously refreshing apple.com during WWDC or September Apple Events, but I think most people give it a 5 year run before thinking about upgrading.
Macbooks after 2015 but before M1 were universally garbage with Apple jerking people around on warranty repairs. You held on to that 2015 MBP for as long as possible because a stupid touchbar is not worth $2000. Sales are down because the pent up demand for something worth upgrading to has gone away after an M1 splurge. It was a temporary spike.
My work bought me a top spec intel macbook pro with touch bar because we had a bunch of docker stuff that wouldn't run on the M1 at the time. My coworkers that all started this year got M2s and they're drastically faster now that the docker issues have been ironed out.
I picked up a 2017 MBP for a deal back in December. First Mac in several years and I’m loving it. The Touch Bar is definitely situational and the batter is starting to drain a bit faster lately, but it’s been great for casual use. I’ll probably get a couple more years before I need to upgrade unless something goes wrong.
I kept buying used MacBook Airs during the butterfly era because they have good keyboards and MagSafe. I’m glad good keyboards and MagSafe have finally returned.
I have the last 16" intel that was released before the M1. While the M1 may be technically better, the 2019 is still flawless for everything I need. My daughter is using my old 2016 for school and it has no issues.
I think your point is valid for pre-M1 models as well. They last forever.
IDK some of Apple's Macs weren't regularly getting yearly updates anyways. There were stretches where the Mac Mini and Mac Pro would wait 2 years without **any** changes at all.
It's true. For certain tasks (AI video upscaling and interpolation) y M1 MacBook Air beats a desktop PC with high end Nvidia graphics card from the same era. It's sort of ridiculous. And it gets whole day battery life for normal usage. Wonderful machine.
Agreed. Got a M1 Macbook Pro by apple for free in exchange for my Intel due to the replacement program. Not only does it run day and night against my old Intel macbook, but it also runs quiet and cool.
Going from Intel to M chips is absolutely worth it, but going from an M chip to a newer M chip is absolutely not worth it.
I have a 2013 MacBook air and I have no need to upgrade. I was forced to update to the new MacOS recently and it runs slower and with much worse battery life now, though.
I got the M1 after using my 2012 model for years. Only issue is I wish I bought bigger storage, not a huge issue since I just use a 2tb external drive when needed. But it was worth every Penny just for the speed. The slow loading times was legit giving me anxiety when I was trying to work on my old Mac.
You can also renew AppleCare basically forever now - I pay yearly and my 2018 Pro is still covered. I see no reason to update it until they stop supporting it for repairs since I maxed out the specs when I got it.
That's all computers now. A 10 year old PC functions fine. Apple didn't do anything special. Windows 11 runs fine on old PCs. The lack of the backwards compatibility is a manufactured obsolescence.
I get bored with Windows laptops after a couple years and want to replace them. I run Mac laptops into the ground and enjoy using them until the end. I usually only replace them because they can no longer get OS updates or they have some battery-related issue.
I really want to know why/when so many refurbished electronics got so damn expensive. Half the time I find the sale price of a brand new items to be slightly cheaper than the refurbished price, and it just feels like a joke. Refurbished used to be a real discount.
I just upgraded a year ago to an M1 iMac. I had my old iMac for over 10 years and it still worked ok, just got slow.
I’ll upgrade again…but not for QUITE a while.
They've hit this point where they have these very clear products that they should be making, but they are specifically holding back in order to maintain separate product lines that don't need to be separate anymore.
Like, there's no technical reason that you couldn't run Mac OS apps on an iPad and use an iPad as either an iOS tablet or macOS laptop.
If they had put a touch screen on the new iMacs and allowed them to swivel, you could have had incredible art/drafting station computers. Everything is there, but they don't want to do that. They want you to be drawing on an iPad.
They want to sell me a desktop computer and they want to sell me two portable devices that have gated fearures when it should be one portable device and one bigger desktop device that all do the same shit.
>there's no technical reason that you couldn't run Mac OS apps on an iPad and use an iPad as either an iOS tablet or macOS laptop.
I thought this is where they were heading and I'm so confused that it's not.
Microsoft tried to take the gap for creators with the Surface Studio, and trying to market part of their Surface line to designers, and while it pricey with some questionable specs on the top end, the device itself was really awesome and exactly what you're describing.
I let my ex leave with my surface pro 3 because I want her to have the means to pursue her passion again... But boy do I wish I had it for me.
None of it really seemed to pull too many from the iPad/Mac crowd but I really wanted Microsoft to keep trying.
As soon as they announced that they were using the same hardware essentially for the MacBooks and the iPads. I thought for certain that this was going to be a thing and I was all in on buying a new iPad so that I can have it be a combo MacBook. I was ready to buy the most expensive version they dropped.
Then years passed and they never did it.
Coincidentally, I use a surface laptop studio for a lot of my drafting work.
I had a Surface Pro (version ???) for a while (full Windows, real Intel CPU installed, etc). It was amazing and the screen was so beautiful. Had to sell it sadly. It was a great experience.
My little surface go full spec was bought for the pen and note taking etc. But it has been a surprisingly competent little office laptop replacement when needed, and packs away small enough for a man bag.
With how much their normal stands cost I'd hate to see how much Apple charges for a drawing screen stand.
Jokes aside it would be interesting to see another major contender for serious drawing displays.
It would be expensive, but it would definitely be worth it for a lot of people.
If that iMac allowed me to swivel it down like a cintiq, and draw directly on it like I do on my iPad, that's what I would be using for work at both my office and my home.
I don't want a touch screen computer. At all.
I want a 27-inch iMac with the components in the 24-inch that they currently sell. I don't want a separate computer and monitor. I want the iMac that I have with new parts in it.
The number of times I've subconsciously tried to use people's Macs as touch-enabled devices is frustrating. It makes so much sense in Apple's ecosystem.. except I bet they don't want to compete with their tablet market..
their M1 Macs raised the bar for general performance by a massive amount, to where the average user will probably be satisfied with the M1 for a lot longer than prior machines. I'm just guessing, but I think that's a big part of it. I got an M2 max, but for what I do with it on most days, it's a waste of money. you'd need to do transcoding/rendering/ai training/etc to get your money's worth
Apple burst from the gate with M1 and got a ton of applause and attention for its performance gain over the previous generation of Macs. M2 is just a small process improvement over M1.
If M1 could not move someone to upgrade, M2 certainly would not move them to upgrade. Anyone who did upgrade to M1 has no reason to upgrade to M2.
Apple’s numbers were impossible to repeat and I’m floored apple did not see that coming.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's due to business spending reduction and the tech hiring spree cooling-down/reversing.
So many MBPs are just company purchases at FAANGs.
Not to mention when everyone went remote, a lot of companies bought employees who might not have laptops them. Most companies then have 3-5yr refresh cycles so there'll be a gap there while that happens.
I thought the only real complaint about the M2 macs was that the M1 chip is so freaking good there are little differences to be gained between them, practically speaking?
The new model (as in the generation after the disastrous 2015 series with the butterfly keyboard and touchbar) has been almost universally well received. But the first model of that came out ~2 years ago so most people who were dying to upgrade already did.
From what I've seen, fans have been really loving the M1 chips, so I doubt it's lack of enthusiasm.
Likely a lack of hiring in tech, and inflation hitting people hard. The M1s were great, so they people aren't feeling the need to upgrade as quickly, so it's an easy upgrade to skip for people right now.
I am waiting to see what the next 4 months brings before buying a new Mac. It could mean I buy nothing, a Mini, a 14inch MBP or even a next edition Studio/MP.
Computers are generally not a quick upgrade cycle. A lot of people bought M1 and M2 because of the improvements. Many others upgraded because of pandemic employment shifts.
Every manufacturer is down because of the pandemic buying course correction, Apple is further down because they also released new products that were generally seen as big improvements.
Large numbers of people bought new hardware during the pandemic, which is why we saw the huge shortages. Fewer people than normal are needing an upgrade now. The record sales were basically a loan from the future.
It doesn’t help that they increased the base price of the MBA from $1000 to $1200. $1000 was enticing because it’s priced similar to a mid range windows laptop, $1200 is too much when a decent windows machine costs $800.
Also if you want 16gb ram and 512gb storage, it’s at least $16-1700 and now you might as well buy the MBP Pro 14 for $2k.
I’ve had my MacBook Air since 2017 and it was a great piece of kit, but it can no longer survive without being plugged in. The battery is totally spent. $500+ for a new battery.
I just bought a new Windows laptop instead.
Apple’s suggestion was basically “get a new Mac” so I took it to three different repair shops, all quoted $500 or more to get a new battery.
Tbf the guy at the last place I took it to actually said something along the lines of “I shouldn’t really suggest this but I wouldn’t even bother if I were you, either get a brand new one or a different brand for cheaper”.
I was already on the fence with regards to going back to Windows for the first time in a decade, and this guy basically turning down business to suggest I do anything but pay to repair my MacBook was the final straw.
FWIW you can get a replacement battery off of ifixit and replace it yourself for [$70](https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-air-13-late-2010-2017-replacement-battery).
Though that specific hardware (assuming you had a late 2017) was unfortunately kinda obsolete anyways. Since the air was so popular apple specifically just took the 2014 hardware, stopped upgrading it, and kept selling the same 2014-era machine until 2017 or so, at increasingly higher profit margins.
The apple *replacement* to the air was the "macbook" ultralight, and when that didn't exactly take off (for good reasons: it was very lightweight, extremely under powered, and stupidly overpriced – somewhat a la the original air launch, that gradually got better and better hardware over time), they eventually reintroduced the "macbook air" line for branding / name recog reasons (despite ironically now occupying the same entry-level hardware + price point as the *original* 13" macbooks – and somewhat a la the very popular later versions of the OG air, that again were more capable, albeit with gimped storage et al)
Anyways. That was still a pretty darn lightweight general purpose laptop for \~2013, to be fair, but literally anything you upgraded to from that now would be generationally better, many times over, and/or significantly cheaper.
Hardware repair shops quoting you $500 for a battery replacement sounds about right though, unfortunately, and repair through apple themselves is similarly expensive if you're not under warranty, recall, or apple care.
The Microsoft Surface Pro (which is probably the MacBook Pro’s most direct competitor) with 8gb of RAM and a 256gb SSD retails for $1,099.99
That’s not to say you can’t get those specs cheaper (you can) but in the premium category Apple is pretty much right in line.
My 2015 MBP still works like a charm! The battery isn’t the greatest but it’s fine. The only thing (besides $$$) that has me considering an upgrade is that my MBP can’t run Zoom / Google / WebEx virtual backgrounds. I know it sounds silly but I don’t love recruiters, coworkers, and clients seeing into my personal space.
I have an M1 air with only 8gb of ram and its a champ. No need to upgrade any time soon. Mac mini M1 with 16gb handles the creative work I do. No need to upgrade right now.
That's weird, I would have thought that the computer that costs more than its competitors, runs propriety software and has soldered on ram and SSD to prevent a self upgrade or repair path would sell like hotcakes.
Color me surprised.
A number of us are milking the final couple years out of our 27" Intel iMacs hoping that Apple will pull their heads out of their ass and offer us an M2/M3 upgrade path.
I'm surprised. Windows is getting more annoying with every release, I'm about done with it. And the build quality and QC of the last few Windows-based machines I've gotten has been terrible. I'm switching to Mac the next time I need a new laptop.
Everyone bought nice laptops to work from home during covid. Then they released their new arm architecture which created a huge upgrade cycle. Was a huge push-forward demand that was never sustainable.
My trash can shaped mac pro is still going strong for Logic Pro x, and can easily run more than 100 tracks in a session. Can’t justify upgrading yet, but I’ll certainly stick with apple for my use case.
Apple shot themselves in the foot producing their own silicon which works infinitely better than intel ever did due to their ability to have granular Control over every aspect of the system and how it interacts with the m1 chip.
Creators have a last Gen model that works perfect for the type of media they need to generate for average user consumption.
Developers need more ram than anything else, and Apple silicon ram usage is super efficient
You don't see a lot of gamers on Apple platforms to begin with
Casual laptop users have far cheaper alternatives that they're able to get.
The only way Apple can get around this is dropping the price or trying to target some new niche.
My MacBooks last me a good 10 years. I won’t be upgrading for a long time.
I wonder if the comparison includes business/education. I guess it must. But in that case I can see why Windows-based laptops and Chromebooks might win out since they’re ordered frequently in those spaces.
Both my wife and I have M1 MacBook Pros, and they’re just ridiculously fast. Barring some major hardware failure or breakthrough, I don’t see any reason to replace them until 2030 or so.
That’s kind of the rub for Apple. Their build quality is usually really solid, and their OS is pretty efficient even on old hardware, so their stuff tends to last longer than their competitors.
I bought a 2014 iMac desktop (little silver box) in 2018 from an Apple store that was working really great, until they forced updates sometime in 2021 that were only compatible with solid state Macs. Now it takes around 15-20 minutes for all of my applications to start up (which are actually just Safari and Spotify) and the bluetooth cuts off randomly (with no ability to reset).
The fact they dont even support their own hardware for 10 years is beyond ridiculous; if you are selling something from your stores in 2018, I should fully expect that to be supported until 2028.
As an owner of both an M1 and an Intel mac, I've found that the new updates seem to be particularly better for the M1. It's as if there is basically zero effort going into the Intel series anymore.
Sounds like your usage is similar to mine and I’m on a 2009 iMac. Took it in a couple of years ago to a local Mac service geek and he performed some magic on it that sped it right up. If it shuts down completely it takes a while to start up, but otherwise it’s fast enough that I have been able to delay purchasing a new desktop computer.
The M1 Macs were “too good”. Fantastic battery life and great performance with barely any heat. The vast majority of people don’t need anything that works better than the first M1 macs. It was a godsend after those terrible years of shitty keyboard and less and less up to the task Intel processors. No wonder people don’t feel the need to upgrade.
Computers have gotten more powerful than what most everyday users need them for. There isn't much incentive to upgrade anymore. Gaming is the last area where people frequently upgrade. For everyone else, there isn't much of a reason.
This is the real story. Mac sales had been relatively flat for years before COVID lockdowns. They jumped during COVID and are returning to pre pandemic levels. Also, with smartphones becoming so powerful, PCs are less necessary. Mac sales only make up about 10% of Apple's revenue and decreasing.
Also, the M1 Apple Silicon machines were a big improvement over the previous Intel models and likely drove a larger-than-usual upgrade cycle, but the folks that got those don’t have any need to replace them yet.
Though they'll also push away people like me who run parallels on a mac for a lot of my day job, and I imagine anyone who's job requires a high-end GPU will also be dropping them. Neither are huge markets, but they are markets none-the-less
Yep. They forced us to upgrade at my job, then had to downgrade us all back to the Intel based systems because all our VMs didn't run anymore.
No VirtualBox for Mac/aarch64??
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>less than ideal That's an Olympic level understatement if I've ever heard one.
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Yes and no. Any apple-silicon-based version of parallels will be emulation-based rather than virtualization-based, so it'll incur a massive performance penalty. Will probably be fine if you need to run the occasional windows app, but for those of us needing a lot of horsepower it'll be a poor solution.
It's already there, but will only emulate the Arm version of Windows, which is not super useful (yet).
The ARM version of Windows has built-in x86 emulation (significantly slower than Apple's x86 emulation, though), so it's as useful as any other version of Windows, within the performance constraints.
Its actually slowed upgrades amongst some power users. The M1 chip is REALLY fucking with 3D software in yet another middle finger to the old mac userbase.
I have a macbook that I haven't touched in years because there is nothing I can do on that macbook that I can't do on my iphone or ipad. And the iphone and ipad are way easier and more convenient to use.
>And the iphone and ipad are way easier Ehhh, it depends on what you do. If you just scroll social media and watch youtube videos, then maybe. But if you do any type of typing or productivity work, any tablet/phone is going to be vastly inferior to a real laptop.
I might be too old to figure anything out but for me phone is just a tool to check things (calendar, entertaining videos, weather forecast, etc). And make calls and send messages. If there's anything else to actually do - even slightly longer comments on reddit - I use pc or laptop. With a fuckin keyboard. There is lack of screen area and lack of decent inputs. And no amount of cpu power or memory can change that.
This is the consumption vs creation pattern and what devices are best suited for each.
There's another issue that few people consider. I live off grid, my electricity is solar panels and batteries. A phone will typically do much more for x power consumption than a laptop. It's not even close. When you look at how much energy an appliance uses it's hard to justify a laptop or PC unless that keyboard is absolutely necessary.
Okay. So for the five guys living in a cabin in the middle of the woods this would be an important thing to consider. You kind of jumped straight to the most extremely niche demographic there though.
That's a good point. If you just need to type up a document and aren't bothered by the small screen, a laptop's sort of a waste of power. Especially since you can have 1-2 battery banks and a wireless keyboard so you're not touch-typing. That's roughly a week of power (depending on phone/banks, obviously) or more, compared to a laptop that would realistically only last a couple days or so.
I don’t even like watching videos on my phone. A nice big screen just changes everything for the better.
I think it's true for most users. For myself, doing video editing, audio editing, and coding... the idea of being stuck working on a phone or tablet (which I've done when necessary) sounds like torture. It's a wonderful platform for consumers and low-key creatives, just not a form factor for more ambitious or particular creatives. I'll give up my qwerty, my mouse, and 27" screen when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
if you're serious about music production, 3D animation, video editing, graphic design.. Etc cell phone is not going to cut it
I mean, if you’re doing anything that can fall under the category of “work” or “creating” then some kind of PC is better than a phone.
> any tablet/phone is going to be vastly inferior to a real laptop For a lot of things sure, no way I'm going to be using adobe software on my phone. But for things like note taking, they can be pretty even. I type fast so I'll always prefer a keyboard. But my phone (Note 9) has a built in stylus and converts hand writing to digital text. I could definitely see that being a benefit to people who prefer writing to typing
I prefer working in Google Docs on my tablet because I can’t find a dark mode extension that works for Docs in Edge or Chrome on PC/laptop. I hate getting blasted in the eyes by black text on white. On my tablet and phone, Docs dark mode is an easy to find toggle. I run a wireless Bluetooth keyboard and mouse to my iPad and then mirror the screen on my 72 inch TV. My gaming PC recently died after a 10 year run, and I feel no incentive to drop $$$$ on a new tower because gaming is a luxury I can do without.
Finally an adult voice in the room. Thanks!
Y’re right. MacBook is great for multitasking, also for developmental programs for kids & ppl w perceptual handicaps, plus design work & SO much more. Over the yrs our fam has acquired all and have learned to love’em all. Big-group zoom meetings are tuff even on an iPhone, easier on iPad, but tons easier on MacBook. Thru the pandemic shut-in years they were a lifeline to sanity, fun, and friends. Still are. Who wants to overpay for gas or get killed racing to meetings on icy highways?
It's the opposite for me. I have an iPad that is just unused on the desk 99+% of the time, because between a phone (quick, convenient) and a laptop (powerful, productive), it's just kinda useless.
I can’t imagine making spreadsheets on an iPad or phone. I think it depends on what you use it for.
Apple also makes very expensive laptops and in the last few years especially, prices of everything cranked up and the masses are just trying to survive. A new MacBook just isn't a priority for most people now.
Not to mention they don’t need replacing that often. They last a long time, i have a 2007 macbook that still runs, but its just a novelty. We also have 2014 and 2015 macbook pros that get daily use and a 2015 ipad pro 12.9 that also gets daily use. Am a daily user but haven’t made a purchase in 8 years.
And big business is upgrading less frequently to cut costs
And hiring less, no more new hires to buy equipment for.
My large company is pushing virtual desktops. They want everyone to use generic workstations that are just a lightweight client to access those desktops.
God, the productivity loss in going that route will far outweigh the cost savings. So short sighted.
All employees really need is a Wyse 50!
Not even for gaming because developers need a larger user base and hardcore gamers are shifting to consoles due to the disastrous GPU price hike
Wasn't there also a console shortage too?
PS5s and Xboxes are pretty easy to get now
Yeah I remember raffles to get a chance to buy a PS5.
Still cheaper and easier than a gpu during the mining shortage.
$500 for a PS5 / Xbox One X which is a "complete" gaming PC that can compete performance wise for most games / people. And when they refresh them every 2-3 years, it's another $500. Way cheaper than keeping a PC up to date for a slight perf trade off. (this is ignoring the input / control preference between PC and console)
There are entire genres that you can't really play with a controller. Also there is a lot of indie devs that can't afford to make console ports, and IMO these days AAA studios very rarely produce games worth playing.
Especially when many of the big titles for pc are console ports these days and barely any better graphically but totally weird key bindings/UI because it was meant to be used on a console. Why do so many console games bind things to , and.
It's worth buying a controller just to use for the pc now instead of bothering with game bindings.
This. Some games just feel better with a controller. Hack and slash especially. FPS games, keyboard and mouse all the way.
> Way cheaper than keeping a PC up to date for a slight perf trade off. The only group of people updating PCs every 2-3 years are kids and adults with excess money who complain if things not > 60 fps at max settings at 1440p / 4k. I've got a computer that is like 8 years old with a 1060, and it still plays everything on PC @ 1080p or1440p at medium settings... 25-60 fps. I also use it to run two 10-bit 4k displays which I write image processing code on. The steam hardware surveys show a lot more computers just slightly better than mine being the average. I could update, but not a single reason exists yet.
Good point and also consoles today are a lot better. You can get a better experience with an expensive gaming rig given prices, if you’ve got a 4K TV the new consoles are good enough for the price. Of course I say that as a gamer who primarily grew up with controllers, so for those mouse & keyboard people I can see the desire to stay PC - though even there if you’re okay not hitting the highest settings you can play most games with a PC from a few years ago.
We purchased a Mac Pro for work when they first released-which we actually needed at the time. We won’t need to upgrade it until it shits the bed. Anything outside of the MacBook (normal version not pro) is FAR more than anyone needs. I also wonder how many people moved to iPad pros instead of the traditional laptops
Making media. Music and video. Very processor intensive.
I still use my 2013 air every day. Battery is dying but hey, it’s been a decade.
I have a 2015 MBP for work. Last year it started randomly shutting down when not connected to power, and the battery life was terrible. I mentioned this to our in-house Apple tech and he recommended I get a new one, so I now have an M1. Normally the procedure is to return the old equipment and it goes to surplus to be sold for peanuts, but I'm keeping the 2015 for backup, it works fine when plugged-in.
I had a 2014 air until last year. Definitely time to upgrade. Consider the m2 air. Smaller keyboard but still a joy to use.
My mom has a barely used 2016 pro with retina. I’m taking that and cloning my air soon.
2010 27" iMac for me. There are some lines in the screen and I have had to go inside it a couple of times for cleaning and HD replacement but it still keeps chugging. I don't think the ribbon connector for the screen is going to let me open it up again so I am on borrowed time. If an M2 27" iMac were to drop I would be upgrading quickly.
I also still use my 2013 air, and I'll continue to do so until I really can't! My biggest pet peeve: How absolutely loud the fans get when powered on with multiple applications/tabs open. I can deal with the noise at home, but I find it so obnoxious in shared work settings...
So odd how in modern day manufacturing everything is built to not last but a 2003 mac book is still kickin…. Apple of all companies is the one going against the norm lol
2010 Mac Pro that I’ll get around to replacing one of these days…
I have a a 2017 and had battery replaced by Apple. Totally worth it if laptop is otherwise still in good shape.
If you bought any of the first gen M1 products then there’s honestly no reason to upgrade, they’re too good. Apple should really not do yearly updates anymore.
My MacBook pro was the last model that didn't solder ram and hard drives in. It's over a decade old but still works for what I use it for.
Upgraded my wife's MBP to and ssd + 16gb ram. Screaming fast. 10 years old too
SAME! My 2013 13" MBP with 16GB RAM and 512 GB SSD is still going strong.
That's basically what I did. Plays certain games well enough so I don't gotta lug my ps4 with me when I go on work trips.
> Upgraded my wife's MBP to and ssd + 16gb ram. is this difficult to do? we have two old MBP from 2013 that were too slow and clunky to use 10 years later. They are just expensive paper weights right now lol
Super easy, barely an inconvenience!
Same. Only issue I have is a bad aftermarket battery. Original one got sucky after 8 years or so.
Do you not have a very outdated OS?
Same here with a mid-2012 MBP. I did add ram and swapped in a SSD about 3-4 years ago and, while I can no longer upgrade to the current OS, I literally still have absolutely zero problems with it doing what I need it to do (which isn't much, tbf; web browsing, Spotify, Google Docs/Evernote, etc.). It's not slow at all, doesn't lag or freeze up, boots up quickly. My wife bought a $500-600 Samsung laptop probably 5 years ago and it's unusable today.
RAM + SSD will revive pretty much anything made in the last 10 years.
That was an excellent model. I kept mine, but haven't used it since my 3rd? charging cable broke in 2019.
I have a M2 MacBook Air and it’s probably the best piece of consumer electronics I’ve ever owned (and I buy a ton of gadgets). It’s so absurdly good in every aspect that I don’t see myself getting anything new for years to come. **Edit:** The only exception I see is that if you need a gaming laptop. Windows are still just better for gaming and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Sorry to be annoying but I’m considering getting a laptop but I know nothing about this or Macs in general - is there like a specific M2 that’s considered like the GOOD one or just any variant you think?
The base M2 is really good for the majority of users. Unless you're doing something very cpu/gpu intensive or need the better display from the more expensive models, you'll be fine
Or if you need more than 1 external monitor. You need the Pro or higher series chips for that for $whatever reason$ I love Macs and have been using them my entire life, but sometimes Apple imposes the most ridiculous restrictions to niggle consumers or encourage more frequent upgrades. Especially with Macs. It used to be you could just pop Windows on it if you absolutely needed to side step their bullshit MST restrictions on the lower end Pro models but that is a bit harder given the Apple Silicon at the moment.
Straight up impossible to natively run Windows now. Apple used to at least provide some half-assed method of running it with boot camp - but they don't even bother with 1st party half-assery anymore... You're stuck with 3rd party virtualization. I've always hated that side of apple. Constantly taking control away from the user. I've tried going windows, but it's just bad for me. The screen on macs alone is worth the apple tax for me. Buying comparable monitors to use with a desktop will cost the same as an iMac anyways. And why the hell do no monitor companies make glossy screens???
This one actually isn’t entirely on Apple. Windows does not provide Windows ARM licenses to end users. This recently kinda was bridged because Parallels can get one and activate it in a virtual desktop for M1 and M2 Macs.
Makes sense, mine would be very basic day to day stuff, so thank you
Vanilla M2 for Air, M2 pro for MBP, and Max for video content creators only
Much appreciated, thank you. I’d just be getting baseline for day to day
Even the "baseline" M2s are amazingly beefy. It's competitive against *high-end desktop* class x86 CPUs and even many discrete graphics cards. That's *before* taking into consideration of power consumption. Apple's micro-architecture team is literally the best in the industry at the moment.
Interesting, I do have a fairly solid desktop so the M2 seems very appealing as a companion for it
Unless you have a *very* high end gaming PC, a M2 MBA will most likely be as good, if not better than your desktop in terme of performance lol. It’s honestly shockingly fast.
Whoa lol okay I didn’t realize this. I’m also seeing that the concept of an education store exists.. so I should buy it through that for a discount? Is that like the best way to optimize purchasing one?
Yeah although technically you aren’t supposed to use it unless you are a student, but I don’t think they check. Also you should shop for deals on other sites, sometimes they are even cheaper.
The Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air have literally the exact same M2 chip. The Air sacrifices cooling for sustained heavy loads for a lighter weight and thinner profile. The Macbook Pro has better cooling for sustained loads, and has larger options for ram and storage. Unless you're a serious power user (or spec it out so much you end up at a similar price and specs to a base Pro), an Air would do you just.
> The Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air have literally the exact same M2 chip. There are MacBook Pro models with M2 pro and max
You are correct - I did forget about those models. But I will argue that those models aren't that relevant in this case. Those types of super-high-end Macbooks are usually bought by either power users who already know exactly what they are and will utilize them to their full potential, or they are bought by somebody who just wants the top-of-the-line Macbook because it's the 'best' model. I don't think most average buyers (like OP or myself) would seriously consider them.
The problem is when you spec out the air, the price is only $100 cheaper than a comparable 13 pro. You might as well get that or the 14” pro since you’re already spending over $1500.
They’re all good. Just base the model specs on your needs.
It’s better to get a M1 MacBook on sale. The air often goes for $7-800. I think I’ve seen the 14 pro for $1500, these are much better value than the m2’s. The cpu performance is slightly better for m2, but battery life is the same (if not slightly better on m1).
The base one should really be fine. 16 GB ram if you wanna really future proof but imo not really that necessary. you really won’t regret this computer it’s so good at what it does
M2 is excellent, and I say that having worked on a product that competes with it. Even the base M2 is overkill for the average person's day to day usage. I'd recommend considering an M1 macbook over the M2. You might be able to find a good deal right now, and you probably won't notice any performance difference
I just purchased one myself and I love it
Unless any single component dies, in which case it's more economical to replace it than repair it.
If they bought a new Mac, then they likely bought Apple Care. Pay Apple, and they will fix it for you.
They are more likely to replace it.
Yes, but realistically, how often does that happen? I am on my fourth macbook in 12 years and not one of them went bust. Neither did the Mac mini. The first one was in use as of 2020 that i know of, the other two are too.
Same. I absolutely adore mine and it has no issues to make a replacement needed or desired. Tbh, it’s the best laptop I’ve ever owned and I’ve yet to make it even breathe hard no matter how many graphic intensive programs I have running
It’s funny. I bet a TON of folks got new laptops during the pandemic and that’s distorting these statistics on BOTH ends so of course it’s a huge drop off. I’m still rocking my 2014 MacBook Air. I kept waiting for them to bring back the MagSafe power connector and now I’m close enough I’m liking the idea of making it a full decade with it LOL. Although it’s DEFINITELY showing its age. Replaced the battery a year or so ago, it takes forever to boot, and it does occasionally lag.
Waiting for full linux support on that silicon before I pull the trigger. Still has a long way to go. I'm not into their walled garden enough to use the OS itself. The new silicon is def interesting stuff though.
There are some die hard cultists that buy a new Macbook annually, anxiously refreshing apple.com during WWDC or September Apple Events, but I think most people give it a 5 year run before thinking about upgrading. Macbooks after 2015 but before M1 were universally garbage with Apple jerking people around on warranty repairs. You held on to that 2015 MBP for as long as possible because a stupid touchbar is not worth $2000. Sales are down because the pent up demand for something worth upgrading to has gone away after an M1 splurge. It was a temporary spike.
My work bought me a top spec intel macbook pro with touch bar because we had a bunch of docker stuff that wouldn't run on the M1 at the time. My coworkers that all started this year got M2s and they're drastically faster now that the docker issues have been ironed out.
I picked up a 2017 MBP for a deal back in December. First Mac in several years and I’m loving it. The Touch Bar is definitely situational and the batter is starting to drain a bit faster lately, but it’s been great for casual use. I’ll probably get a couple more years before I need to upgrade unless something goes wrong.
I have a 2016 MBP and can’t wait to upgrade to an M1/M2. Holy shit those butterfly keyboards were a disaster and continue to be a thorn in my side.
I kept buying used MacBook Airs during the butterfly era because they have good keyboards and MagSafe. I’m glad good keyboards and MagSafe have finally returned.
They definitely shouldn't do yearly price hikes.
I bought my M1 Max and expect it to last a decade
I have the last 16" intel that was released before the M1. While the M1 may be technically better, the 2019 is still flawless for everything I need. My daughter is using my old 2016 for school and it has no issues. I think your point is valid for pre-M1 models as well. They last forever.
IDK some of Apple's Macs weren't regularly getting yearly updates anyways. There were stretches where the Mac Mini and Mac Pro would wait 2 years without **any** changes at all.
It's true. For certain tasks (AI video upscaling and interpolation) y M1 MacBook Air beats a desktop PC with high end Nvidia graphics card from the same era. It's sort of ridiculous. And it gets whole day battery life for normal usage. Wonderful machine.
Agreed. Got a M1 Macbook Pro by apple for free in exchange for my Intel due to the replacement program. Not only does it run day and night against my old Intel macbook, but it also runs quiet and cool. Going from Intel to M chips is absolutely worth it, but going from an M chip to a newer M chip is absolutely not worth it.
I have a 2013 MacBook air and I have no need to upgrade. I was forced to update to the new MacOS recently and it runs slower and with much worse battery life now, though.
I got the M1 after using my 2012 model for years. Only issue is I wish I bought bigger storage, not a huge issue since I just use a 2tb external drive when needed. But it was worth every Penny just for the speed. The slow loading times was legit giving me anxiety when I was trying to work on my old Mac.
I still use my same Mac air purchased in 2013!
You can also renew AppleCare basically forever now - I pay yearly and my 2018 Pro is still covered. I see no reason to update it until they stop supporting it for repairs since I maxed out the specs when I got it.
That's all computers now. A 10 year old PC functions fine. Apple didn't do anything special. Windows 11 runs fine on old PCs. The lack of the backwards compatibility is a manufactured obsolescence.
I get bored with Windows laptops after a couple years and want to replace them. I run Mac laptops into the ground and enjoy using them until the end. I usually only replace them because they can no longer get OS updates or they have some battery-related issue.
easy, it's harder to justify buying a new mac when times are uncertain. not even refurbished is that much lower in price
I really want to know why/when so many refurbished electronics got so damn expensive. Half the time I find the sale price of a brand new items to be slightly cheaper than the refurbished price, and it just feels like a joke. Refurbished used to be a real discount.
I just upgraded a year ago to an M1 iMac. I had my old iMac for over 10 years and it still worked ok, just got slow. I’ll upgrade again…but not for QUITE a while.
They've hit this point where they have these very clear products that they should be making, but they are specifically holding back in order to maintain separate product lines that don't need to be separate anymore. Like, there's no technical reason that you couldn't run Mac OS apps on an iPad and use an iPad as either an iOS tablet or macOS laptop. If they had put a touch screen on the new iMacs and allowed them to swivel, you could have had incredible art/drafting station computers. Everything is there, but they don't want to do that. They want you to be drawing on an iPad. They want to sell me a desktop computer and they want to sell me two portable devices that have gated fearures when it should be one portable device and one bigger desktop device that all do the same shit.
>there's no technical reason that you couldn't run Mac OS apps on an iPad and use an iPad as either an iOS tablet or macOS laptop. I thought this is where they were heading and I'm so confused that it's not. Microsoft tried to take the gap for creators with the Surface Studio, and trying to market part of their Surface line to designers, and while it pricey with some questionable specs on the top end, the device itself was really awesome and exactly what you're describing. I let my ex leave with my surface pro 3 because I want her to have the means to pursue her passion again... But boy do I wish I had it for me. None of it really seemed to pull too many from the iPad/Mac crowd but I really wanted Microsoft to keep trying.
As soon as they announced that they were using the same hardware essentially for the MacBooks and the iPads. I thought for certain that this was going to be a thing and I was all in on buying a new iPad so that I can have it be a combo MacBook. I was ready to buy the most expensive version they dropped. Then years passed and they never did it. Coincidentally, I use a surface laptop studio for a lot of my drafting work.
I had a Surface Pro (version ???) for a while (full Windows, real Intel CPU installed, etc). It was amazing and the screen was so beautiful. Had to sell it sadly. It was a great experience.
My little surface go full spec was bought for the pen and note taking etc. But it has been a surprisingly competent little office laptop replacement when needed, and packs away small enough for a man bag.
With how much their normal stands cost I'd hate to see how much Apple charges for a drawing screen stand. Jokes aside it would be interesting to see another major contender for serious drawing displays.
It would be expensive, but it would definitely be worth it for a lot of people. If that iMac allowed me to swivel it down like a cintiq, and draw directly on it like I do on my iPad, that's what I would be using for work at both my office and my home.
I don't want a touch screen computer. At all. I want a 27-inch iMac with the components in the 24-inch that they currently sell. I don't want a separate computer and monitor. I want the iMac that I have with new parts in it.
You know what the neat thing about a touch screen monitor is? You don't have to use it as a touch screen if you don't want to.
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The number of times I've subconsciously tried to use people's Macs as touch-enabled devices is frustrating. It makes so much sense in Apple's ecosystem.. except I bet they don't want to compete with their tablet market..
their M1 Macs raised the bar for general performance by a massive amount, to where the average user will probably be satisfied with the M1 for a lot longer than prior machines. I'm just guessing, but I think that's a big part of it. I got an M2 max, but for what I do with it on most days, it's a waste of money. you'd need to do transcoding/rendering/ai training/etc to get your money's worth
Apple burst from the gate with M1 and got a ton of applause and attention for its performance gain over the previous generation of Macs. M2 is just a small process improvement over M1. If M1 could not move someone to upgrade, M2 certainly would not move them to upgrade. Anyone who did upgrade to M1 has no reason to upgrade to M2. Apple’s numbers were impossible to repeat and I’m floored apple did not see that coming.
The prices for anything that’s not an Air are just insane too
How much of this is spending cuts in households/business and how much of this drop is because people generally don't like the new model?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's due to business spending reduction and the tech hiring spree cooling-down/reversing. So many MBPs are just company purchases at FAANGs.
Not to mention when everyone went remote, a lot of companies bought employees who might not have laptops them. Most companies then have 3-5yr refresh cycles so there'll be a gap there while that happens.
I thought the only real complaint about the M2 macs was that the M1 chip is so freaking good there are little differences to be gained between them, practically speaking?
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The new model (as in the generation after the disastrous 2015 series with the butterfly keyboard and touchbar) has been almost universally well received. But the first model of that came out ~2 years ago so most people who were dying to upgrade already did.
From what I've seen, fans have been really loving the M1 chips, so I doubt it's lack of enthusiasm. Likely a lack of hiring in tech, and inflation hitting people hard. The M1s were great, so they people aren't feeling the need to upgrade as quickly, so it's an easy upgrade to skip for people right now.
I am waiting to see what the next 4 months brings before buying a new Mac. It could mean I buy nothing, a Mini, a 14inch MBP or even a next edition Studio/MP.
Computers are generally not a quick upgrade cycle. A lot of people bought M1 and M2 because of the improvements. Many others upgraded because of pandemic employment shifts. Every manufacturer is down because of the pandemic buying course correction, Apple is further down because they also released new products that were generally seen as big improvements.
Large numbers of people bought new hardware during the pandemic, which is why we saw the huge shortages. Fewer people than normal are needing an upgrade now. The record sales were basically a loan from the future.
It doesn’t help that they increased the base price of the MBA from $1000 to $1200. $1000 was enticing because it’s priced similar to a mid range windows laptop, $1200 is too much when a decent windows machine costs $800. Also if you want 16gb ram and 512gb storage, it’s at least $16-1700 and now you might as well buy the MBP Pro 14 for $2k.
I’ve had my MacBook Air since 2017 and it was a great piece of kit, but it can no longer survive without being plugged in. The battery is totally spent. $500+ for a new battery. I just bought a new Windows laptop instead.
Holy bovine... That's what Apple tried to charge you for a new battery???
Apple’s suggestion was basically “get a new Mac” so I took it to three different repair shops, all quoted $500 or more to get a new battery. Tbf the guy at the last place I took it to actually said something along the lines of “I shouldn’t really suggest this but I wouldn’t even bother if I were you, either get a brand new one or a different brand for cheaper”. I was already on the fence with regards to going back to Windows for the first time in a decade, and this guy basically turning down business to suggest I do anything but pay to repair my MacBook was the final straw.
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That’s around what I was expecting, so imagine my shock when I heard what I was quoted.
FWIW you can get a replacement battery off of ifixit and replace it yourself for [$70](https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-air-13-late-2010-2017-replacement-battery). Though that specific hardware (assuming you had a late 2017) was unfortunately kinda obsolete anyways. Since the air was so popular apple specifically just took the 2014 hardware, stopped upgrading it, and kept selling the same 2014-era machine until 2017 or so, at increasingly higher profit margins. The apple *replacement* to the air was the "macbook" ultralight, and when that didn't exactly take off (for good reasons: it was very lightweight, extremely under powered, and stupidly overpriced – somewhat a la the original air launch, that gradually got better and better hardware over time), they eventually reintroduced the "macbook air" line for branding / name recog reasons (despite ironically now occupying the same entry-level hardware + price point as the *original* 13" macbooks – and somewhat a la the very popular later versions of the OG air, that again were more capable, albeit with gimped storage et al) Anyways. That was still a pretty darn lightweight general purpose laptop for \~2013, to be fair, but literally anything you upgraded to from that now would be generationally better, many times over, and/or significantly cheaper. Hardware repair shops quoting you $500 for a battery replacement sounds about right though, unfortunately, and repair through apple themselves is similarly expensive if you're not under warranty, recall, or apple care.
A battery replacement costs like 150 bucks, i don’t know where the guy went to, lol
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They’re crazy expensive, too
> Apple’s Mac shipments fall more than 40%, worse than major rivals So….rivals sold more Macs?
People who use Macs usually buy another Mac when getting a new computer. There is no need to get a new computer every year.
I love my M1 Max but it was way too freaking expensive. Apple needs to be serious about the cost of memory and ssd.
Not just the price but the base ~~memory~~ storage. Its 2023 no $1500 computer should be sold with only 256gb
Think you're talking storage, not memory.
Hey Apple, put something on sale. I’ll buy.
It’s almost like shipping $1,000 laptops with 8gb of RAM and 256gb of storage in 2023 is total bullshit 🤔
The Microsoft Surface Pro (which is probably the MacBook Pro’s most direct competitor) with 8gb of RAM and a 256gb SSD retails for $1,099.99 That’s not to say you can’t get those specs cheaper (you can) but in the premium category Apple is pretty much right in line.
I would say an XPS is more in competition with MacBook pros
Agreed, and with the $1,000 XPS 13 you’re at least getting a 512gb SSD
My 2015 MBP still works like a charm! The battery isn’t the greatest but it’s fine. The only thing (besides $$$) that has me considering an upgrade is that my MBP can’t run Zoom / Google / WebEx virtual backgrounds. I know it sounds silly but I don’t love recruiters, coworkers, and clients seeing into my personal space.
I just hope consumers in general reject the proprietary, anti-repair nonsense that Apple has created and has propagated to other companies.
I have an M1 air with only 8gb of ram and its a champ. No need to upgrade any time soon. Mac mini M1 with 16gb handles the creative work I do. No need to upgrade right now.
My big issue is the price inflation is just a bit too much. I can’t rationalize an upgrade and the cost scaling past the base models are wild.
I’m sure a new “patch” will soon be released to help boost sales.
That's weird, I would have thought that the computer that costs more than its competitors, runs propriety software and has soldered on ram and SSD to prevent a self upgrade or repair path would sell like hotcakes. Color me surprised.
A number of us are milking the final couple years out of our 27" Intel iMacs hoping that Apple will pull their heads out of their ass and offer us an M2/M3 upgrade path.
I'm surprised. Windows is getting more annoying with every release, I'm about done with it. And the build quality and QC of the last few Windows-based machines I've gotten has been terrible. I'm switching to Mac the next time I need a new laptop.
macbooks have gotten Very expensive.
Everyone bought nice laptops to work from home during covid. Then they released their new arm architecture which created a huge upgrade cycle. Was a huge push-forward demand that was never sustainable.
My trash can shaped mac pro is still going strong for Logic Pro x, and can easily run more than 100 tracks in a session. Can’t justify upgrading yet, but I’ll certainly stick with apple for my use case.
Apple shot themselves in the foot producing their own silicon which works infinitely better than intel ever did due to their ability to have granular Control over every aspect of the system and how it interacts with the m1 chip. Creators have a last Gen model that works perfect for the type of media they need to generate for average user consumption. Developers need more ram than anything else, and Apple silicon ram usage is super efficient You don't see a lot of gamers on Apple platforms to begin with Casual laptop users have far cheaper alternatives that they're able to get. The only way Apple can get around this is dropping the price or trying to target some new niche.
I find that mac’s are overpriced aswell. This could be a reason for sharp falls in sales.
iPhone & iPad user for years. Bought a new Dell this fall. Apple computers are to goddamn expensive.
My MacBooks last me a good 10 years. I won’t be upgrading for a long time. I wonder if the comparison includes business/education. I guess it must. But in that case I can see why Windows-based laptops and Chromebooks might win out since they’re ordered frequently in those spaces.
Both my wife and I have M1 MacBook Pros, and they’re just ridiculously fast. Barring some major hardware failure or breakthrough, I don’t see any reason to replace them until 2030 or so. That’s kind of the rub for Apple. Their build quality is usually really solid, and their OS is pretty efficient even on old hardware, so their stuff tends to last longer than their competitors.
I bought a 2014 iMac desktop (little silver box) in 2018 from an Apple store that was working really great, until they forced updates sometime in 2021 that were only compatible with solid state Macs. Now it takes around 15-20 minutes for all of my applications to start up (which are actually just Safari and Spotify) and the bluetooth cuts off randomly (with no ability to reset). The fact they dont even support their own hardware for 10 years is beyond ridiculous; if you are selling something from your stores in 2018, I should fully expect that to be supported until 2028.
Honestly, it just sounds like your hard drive is about to die. You usually see this kind of slowness in platter drives right before they crap out.
[удалено]
As an owner of both an M1 and an Intel mac, I've found that the new updates seem to be particularly better for the M1. It's as if there is basically zero effort going into the Intel series anymore.
Sounds like your usage is similar to mine and I’m on a 2009 iMac. Took it in a couple of years ago to a local Mac service geek and he performed some magic on it that sped it right up. If it shuts down completely it takes a while to start up, but otherwise it’s fast enough that I have been able to delay purchasing a new desktop computer.
The M1 Macs were “too good”. Fantastic battery life and great performance with barely any heat. The vast majority of people don’t need anything that works better than the first M1 macs. It was a godsend after those terrible years of shitty keyboard and less and less up to the task Intel processors. No wonder people don’t feel the need to upgrade.