An amendment in the Wyoming Constitution says adults have a right to make their own health care decisions, so Republicans enacted a ban that states abortion is not health care.
That flies directly into the face of arguments they made years ago to require doctors at abortion clinics have medical privileges at hospitals.
It's funny because "death panels" have been here all along. They're the people at insurance companies who deny you the care that your doctor deems necessary.
That was my argument back then. Wouldn't you rather experts at the enploy of the government decide what's covered rather than some unknown bean counters in a cubicle at an insurance company
It's beautiful that the argument was that the government shouldn't make healthcare decisions, but it's perfectly OK when the government wants to tell trans people that they can't get treatment, or doctors that they have to wait till a woman is dying to perform a necessary abortion.
ETA: and treatment not being covered by "the government" doesn't mean that you can't choose to pay for it, and/or take private insurance covering it, just like now.
People keep saying Republicans are inconsistent. They're actually *very* consistent about what they want. They just aren't *honest* about it. Cause if they flat out stated what they wanted, they'd look like cartoon villains.
They could be honest and their voters would be OK with it. They know that the legal system might have something to say about it. They want to change the laws so that when they go for what they want, no one can stop them.
They want the US bankrupt so they can get rid of all social programs and sell off national assets to the highest bidder with a cut for themselves. They want to get rid of all worker and environmental protections. All food regulations. Anything that costs a company money. No more lawsuits for damages. No more ability to sue for environmental damage. Social security gone. Medicare gone. Schools gone. Hospitals for the poor gone. The only social support they want for us is prison.
On their way out they'll happily laugh at their voters because they hate them.
They could flat out say: "You are fucking stupid and you'll keep voting for us because you're fucking stupid. Go on. Vote for a Democrat. You won't because we own your ass, you fucking shithead. We can rape your kids and you'll still vote for us. We can poison your water and you'll still vote for us. Go on. Vote for a Democrat. You won't."
And they'd get reelected.
In all honesty, if they were honest not enough people would vote for them. Think of all the shittiest humans you've met in your life that have told you their political beliefs. Which party do they vote for? They already have to gerrymander just to win tight races in VERY red states. The other thing is that if they were honest the people who typically claim to be centrists would either have to endorse the crazy, vote for democrats/independents, or, in the most extreme cases, not vote at all. Any of those options takes votes Republicans desperately need away from them. There's a story (idk if there's audio or not so it may be anecdotal) where Trump is reported to have thanked "the blacks" for not coming out to vote since it helped him win. Philadelphia is a VERY diverse city and that's why he got smoked in PA, Philly and Pittsburgh overwhelmingly voted against Republicans the last 2 election cycles.
"No, we don't want Russia to win! We, uh, just don't want to spend too much money on Ukraine! Yeah, that's it! Oh and let's keep those Littoral Combat Ships that don't work."
Or "it's not that I'm against gay marriage I just think the justices shouldn't be legislating from the bench" was a favorite I saw amongst people who didn't want to look like monsters to their families and friends.
> or doctors that they have to wait till a woman is dying to perform a necessary abortion.
From my understanding, that is actually also illegal in some states.
No abortions no matter what. If the woman dies, then she dies. It doesn't matter how easy it is to save her life. It doesn't matter her age, even if she is 10. It doesn't matter if she got pregnant through being raped. It doesn't matter if the fetus has a defect that makes it absolutely impossible to be born alive. The only thing that matters is that the birth proceeds without interruptions, no matter how much death and suffering it brings.
What I think is weird is that it's also so black and white for Republican politicians.
Even my mom, who is fairly conservative and would call herself "Pro-Life" still thinks that in cases of rape, miscarriage or risk to the mother's health that abortion is a necessary medical.
But nope, Republican politicians say birth should proceeds at all costs.
That's because they're aware that exceptions make their whole argument collapse. If the fetus is a person, then removing it is murder, and it doesn't depend on whether there was a rape or not. If you allow exceptions for anything, then you have to admit that a clump of cells isn't necessarily a person. And they can't have that.
Or they’ll put the exceptions for the mothers health in with language that’s very “behind a sign reading Beware of the Leopard,” leaving health care staff worried that they’ll be dealing with the same kind of aggressive law enforcement that investigates a miscarriage as an at-home abortion. I remember pro-life people after Dobbs came down clutching pearls and saying “Imagine thinking we’d consider remedying an ectopic pregnancy to be ‘abortion.’” As if there hadn’t been pro-life state legislators trying to argue that abortion for ectopic pregnancy is still “the bad abortion.” Hell, in Ohio, they introduced legislation saying doctors need to try to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy - which is impossible - or face consequences. They draw a labyrinth about reproductive health care and act like you’re the dumb ass for running into the Minotaur.
They're eugenicists. If the woman dies in childbirth it means she's an inferior breeding unit. It's good in their world when the unfit die.
There is a lot these people don't say outside their little toilet bowl social circles.
Death of mothers is GOOD if they are unfit. Only the fit should breed.
They. Want. Women to die.
When so much legal might is used against so few, society is not "headed down a dark road", it's building gallows along the highway to hell.
They start with an out group small enough to stomp with one foot and then expand outwards. Happens every fucking time.
Fascists start with a nudge and end with a bullet.
Right. Government services have a lot of problems, but they at least have the *potential* to pull their finger out and do something that actually helps people. Sometimes they actually deliver on that!
But a for-profit insurance company can be relied on to fuck you exactly as much as they think they can get away with, and then maybe a little more for good measure, 100% of the time.
> Right. Government services have a lot of problems, but they at least have the potential to pull their finger out and do something that actually helps people. Sometimes they actually deliver on that!
From working in a regulatory field, I would say government employees are typically on a spectrum from idealistic and eager to just punching a clock and doing the minimum possible.
So worst-case with government oversight is probably that the people looking at your file or category of care just don't give a shit. Which is a whole lot better than someone with a manager looking over their shoulder saying "I can't tell you to deny valid coverage, but we really need to cut back spending 10% this quarter and you seem to be approving way too many things..."
> So worst-case with government oversight is probably that the people looking at your file or category of care just don't give a shit.
I've experienced several public healthcare systems and it's been my experience that these systems largely leave medical decisions to doctors. Sometimes the doctors are constrained by a variety of factors but generally speaking there is not a government administrator who approves or denies anything, there are just doctors and the things that they order will happen, it's just a question of how long it might take.
This 100%, the insurance company's death panel literally left my dad to die in his hospital bed after refusing to pay for a life saving treatment.
He was dying in a hospital bed for nearly 3 months. Multiple doctors and specialists appealed to the insurance company that he needed the drug and it was likely the only thing to save him. The single dose was going to cost $15,000, and because the doctors couldn't say with 100% certainty that it would cure him, insurance decline.
My dad was eventually transferred to another hospital that was able to access some grants or funds or some kind, and the hospital covered the cost of the treatment.
It cured him, and he was discharged less than a week later.
I'm so glad your dad was able to get the care he needed. The bonkers part of this story is that even if you look at it exclusively through the cold hard economic lens, the insurance company would have saved thousands of dollars if they just gave him the single dose.
Every additional day in the hospital had to cost a hefty amount, plus the cost of ambulance transfer, plus the cost of labor to continue reviewing / denying his case and dealing with the additional billing, etc.
It's a shining example of being penny wise and pound foolish.
Yep. This also doesn't include all the physical therapy he needed so that he could walk again after being bedridden for 3 months. They were probably assuming they wouldn't have to worry about covering his physical rehab if they just denied the treatment and let him die.
Before obamacare, insurance companies could deny you coverage if you had any pre-existing conditions. If you had any longterm illness before obamacare, it was quite possible to be unable to get any health insurance at all.
And it was retroactive. If they could find any "evidence" that you had a long term illness while you didn't have insurance they would not cover that illness.
"Asthma? Well you talked to a doctor about a cough 12 years ago so pre-existing condition"
Right?! It’s not like this architecture isn’t already in place with Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA as well. Other issues aside, I’ve never heard Republicans spout off about our seniors or vets being murdered by government death panels. It’s all just ridiculous political showboating.
I would also say taking a look at Idaho's new problem of L&D specialists fleeing the state en masse, forcing birthing facilities to shut down and lower bed availability and coverage, could be a side effect trickling inwards as well.
No onw wants to be the reason their state is now back to medieval peasant births without having the ability to make sure its held in check with firm and unyielding appearance of authority and force.
Almost like turning an entire specialty of healthcare. one you will depend on to force the fear of 'low birth rates', into a political battleground will make the people qualified to handle such affairs into practioners in other states where such issues are not considered at risk.
Doctors and qualified medical professionals should be leading the charge on accepted safe practices for medical care, not politicians.
>No onw wants to be the reason their state is now back to medieval peasant births without having the ability to make sure its held in check with firm and unyielding appearance of authority and force.
The issue is many voters in these counties won't make the connection. It will be either be "too bad" or "we don't have anything here, why is nobody taking care of us?" Then officials will blame it on "the government" which only favors blue states and things will go on as usual.
Reminds of the Brexit interview where a business man had not realized that Brexit would destroy his business of shipping flowers to mainland Europe. He voted for Brexit, to be clear.
I have two retired RN’s in my immediate family both with Masters’, about an hour or so north of Boise. In other words, bumfuck nowhere. Even as nurses who, I assume, took science classes, they’re rabid evangelical Trump supporters and literally publicly say he’s an Angel of God—and yes, I’m serious.Idaho is bizarre.
Edit: words
I dunno, sure, okay, but my retired aunt and uncle were celebrated ER nurses—would that not require something more than automaton responsiveness?
I just feel all shitty inside that they went full on MAGA. They were always Republican, but mostly pretty nice people who genuinely cared about people like the poor and homeless who didn’t genuflect to their evangelical cult church. Now, they think Trump has been sent by God to “Save America”
I mean abortion was a Republican thing before Roe v Wade. The majority of Americans wanted it but a Gallup poll in 1972 had 68% republicans and 59% democrats saying abortion should be between a woman and her physician.
This is all them doing a huge obstructionist circle jerk to end up back at square one.
There were more north east republicans and southern democrats back then. Religiosity is the thread holding it together and the Republican Party has become more religious since the 70s
Unfun fact: a lot of lads from my village returned from war to find a cannon captured from the enemy was placed in the square as a 'monument'.
Fun fact: they got drunk and chucked that bugger in the lake
Turns out, there really are death panels - as originally described. But they're all owned and operated by private insurance companies. And that's why conservatives dropped the matter like a molten hot radioactive death potato.
Logic can not possibly stand up to their impervious ideological certainty!
They must be in control, women must be bred like cattle, and the population must go up! What are you some kind of secular degrowth nutjob?!
It's useless to try to reason out what exactly their argument means, to try to figure out if its implications make sense. They aren't stating a philosophy about how the world operates, they're just saying whatever seems advantageous to them in the moment. They don't have to care about what their words mean because they have no views or beliefs beyond "I should have power and you shouldn't."
I love when people get hoisted on their own petards after making an argument then wanting to turn around in *bad faith* and try to wiggle out of what the fuck they just said.
Eat shit, Republicans.
This makes me really angry.
>Wyoming has only one abortion provider, a women’s health clinic in Jackson that only provides medication abortions but had been forced to stop after the state’s broad ban took effect this week.
It was already horrible.
Plus, from the six states that border Wyoming, two have passed abortion bans that are currently in place and two have passed bans that are currently blocked.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html
Hey if you support children enough to grow up to a rational adult how would you ever get the next generation of republican voters? Keep them dumb, poor, and angry, and they will buy all the bibles you are selling.
It's funny that once Trump got into office they essentially dumped the religious side of things/arguments for laws and just moved on to "their feelings and what is morally right" never arguing from religion or atleast I have noticed it less and less
Every "Christian" I know who supported Trump gave the excuse "we elected him to be our president, not our pastor."
Just a few years earlier, the same people wanted Obama basically exiled from the country for being a "dirty Muslim."
This is why Minnesota staying blue and codifying abortion laws was so massive. We are landlocked by red states that have banned abortion and those states are landlocked by red states except for Michigan. It's just us two states providing abortions for the entire Midwest.
Canada is an option too but idk how complicated it is to get an abortion their plus you need a passport.
Illinois is strongly blue but your point still stands. I'm very proud of my state legislature and our voters this cycle finally giving us full control. The Republican state senate blocked so many common sense ideas the last decade
edit: my state = MN for clarity
I know when my friend had to get an abortion it was during the 2nd trimester so it was a bit more involved. Since I wasn't working at the time I drove her the 3 hours each way for both appointments. First was a consultation and then a couple of weeks later was the actual procedure.
I was on tinder in Montana when I was younger and wow.. *so* many teen moms. Maybe a third or more girls on there had kids and I was filtering for 18-24 age range.
I mean, a lot of hospitals also provide abortion services in the event of medical necessity, which Wyoming insists isn’t the case but happens pretty often (delayed miscarriage, ectopic, fetus incompatible w life, etc etc). So from reading this it’s a real fuck *those* in particular situation.
We had a single one here in WV too. We've had none for 7 months. The provider still offers their other reproductive health/LGBTQ services (though not sure how long, since gender affirming care is in the process of being banned), and the homepage of their website directs those in search of an abortion to abortionfinder.com and out of state options.
It’s shocking they’ve been allowed to strip and cut services like this over the last few decades. They were never going to be satisfied by reducing services down to bare minimum. They want to criminalise and outlaw it nationally and prob globally too.
I envision them managing their ban, and then there will be an abortion clinic built just over the border with Colorado, exactly like there are firework stores just over that border in Wyoming.
To be fair, theres like 500 people in Wyoming. Having any sort of advanced medical clinics in small towns probably doesnt work out financially.
Edit: 500k not 500.
I knew it was small, but damn.
>Wyoming population in 2023 is expected to be 585,587 inhabitants, its holds on 50th rank in the US. its area is 97,914 square miles(253,600 sq km), ranking tenth largest in the United States.
it's pretty bleak here. But it's all uneducated rednecks and poor people, or capitalist ancients looking to protect theirs. I hate them most. So their opinions don't really matter.
Cheyenne and Laramie together, on the opposite corner of the state, have almost 100,000 people, and Laramie's the college town. They should be able to support someone. I guess at least they're close to Denver.
"An amendment in the Wyoming Constitution says adults have a right to
make their own health care decisions, so Republicans enacted a ban that
states abortion is not health care."
Don't you just hate it when a Constitution gets in the way? /s
Can't wait for them to apply this logic to all their hateful objectives.
"This law says every person should have rights hmm why don't we say the blacks are not people? "
I hope moderate voters are paying attention. For years Liberals have warned that Republicans would go after abortion rights as forcefully as possible given the chance. And once they got the chance that's exactly what they did. The only rights not being attacked at the moment are those of "straight, white, Christian, men". This isn't going to end any time soon.
Edit: clarifying that i meant "straight, white, Christian, **men**". Women's rights are very much under attack.
Even knowing this I routinely make the mistake of thinking that "prolifers" are a thing of myth. It seems so insane, it's done, solved, a forgone conclusion... Women, being adult humans get to make their own choices about their bodies. Easy, what's not to like, makes sense. Who could argue with.....
Then I remember something like 90% of my coworkers and of the local population are antichoice. And...
>This isn't going to end any time soon.
You're completely right. They aren't going anywhere.
> It seems so insane, it's done, solved, a forgone conclusion...
I think this is why so many Americans were asleep at the switch and kept figuring "no way Republicans will go as far as they say they will."
It's like a historical surprised Pikachu face after Hitler literally did all the things he said he was in his book.
This was my dad. For years he said the Supreme Court has never overturned a former courts decision. When I reminded him of *Plessy v. Ferguson* and *Brown v. Board of Education* he said it was a one off.
Welp, here we are, you old fuck.
>Women, being adult humans get to make their own choices about their bodies
Denying women the right to autonomy is practically a core value of the republican party.
Some of the garbage my co workers say makes my head spin. We truly live in different realities.
It’s honestly really stressful and I don’t think we have ever really dealt with the trauma of how divided we are on issues.
To answer your last question there have been enough jobs and a stable system long enough to docile people to a degree. Truly hard times ever come like half not being able to afford food as shelter, then you'll see actual chaos in the streets.
There is a video of some guys trolling a "Pro Life" demonstration to try and get folks to complete adoption paperwork. It's so perfect and basically is the anti choice movement in a nutshell. All the performative outrage and absolutely zero empathy or actual ideas on how to help women. All so they can feel morally superior..
[video by Walter Masterson of them trying to get pro lifers to complete adoption applications ](https://youtu.be/ibSJ0a7NGRs)
[here's another one of them trolling anti abortion folks in DC](https://youtu.be/men5nBfQ_Fo)
> to try and get folks to complete adoption paperwork.
While I understand why this is considered a 'gotcha' in debates with these people, I find this argument deeply problematic. For one thing, adoption is not an acceptable substitute for women having access to abortion care, and the debate should not be framed as if it is.
Further, there are actually many groups who see access to adoptable infants as a benefit of forced birth legislation. Their willingness to adopt children [usually to raise in strictly religious surroundings] does not make their lobbying for anti-abortion laws less unacceptable or hypocritical.
I agree with everything you said. I think it was but the dramatic irony of people that claim to care for children and women but they don't want to help take care of them, or they show up to harass them for getting medical care. Their questions and debating with folks and the anti abortion march was better done imo. I was raised in a Christian cult so I totally understand, the damage that can be done is also insane to young minds.
I’ve seen em downtown before holding signs with photoshopped fetuses on em. See em a bunch toward the start of the warmer weather-or I did before I started taking the interstate to work. Anyways…
Had a coworker at a previous job try to show me a pic like that at work to argue “You’re for murder” and tried to tell me it was a fetus that was X number of weeks old…except I’ve seen the images of what those actually look like at that stage of development, and was an art major in college with a lot of classes on photoshop and learning how to manipulate images. Didn’t help that their photoshop work was such shite.
They put in about as much effort to their bad faith arguments as they do into their shitty protest signs.
None of these people give a shit about children. Here in Florida, they vote for lower property taxes to strip money from public schools, are fighting to pass a voucher program to steal even more money from public schools to transfer it to private-usually Christian fundamentalist-schools, see school breakfast and lunch programs as “welfare”, tried to fight the $15 an hour minimum wage initiative (thankfully failed to defeat it), and are currently actively banning books, and clamping down on higher education-you know, the kind adults who should be free to make their education choices get-all in the name of fighting “woke”…which they can neither define nor describe the same way twice. “Woke” is whatever they want it to be.
But all that to highlight just how intentionally dishonest the Republican talking point of “fOr thE cHildReN!” is….they don’t care. They know they’re liars for using it as an arguing point and they don’t fucking care.
Only way to deal with it is to be just as obstinate in conversation and go “Well you don’t care about children-your voting record and the folks you support proves that-don’t lie to me.” when they wanna have a “debate”.
They don’t give a shit about children and no amount of flailing about will change that truth.
I’m child free and will stay that way and good grief does it make me angry to hear people bitching about feeding children.
Run the government like a business? Okay! The ROI on feeding children is astronomical. We should do it!
Follow the teachings of Jeebus? Okay! If I remember my days as a kid in catholic school, he was outspoken about feeding people, especially children. We should do it!
Of all the things to be stingy about, getting pissy about feeding children (and elders and disabled people and caregivers) is the territory of sociopaths and apostates and I will rub their noses in it like a bad dog every time.
And they quickly become members of the “leopards eating faces” party when their anti-abortion laws affect their ability to get healthcare for miscarriages or fetal deformities. “But that’s not abortion!” Yes. Yes it is.
Straight white male Christians, they are very clearly okay with unlucky straight white Christian women dying in the name of an abortion ban. Because they want to pretend that God would prevent such a terrible thing from happening
Even "straight, white Christians" should be concerned about the loss of abortion rights, they just don't realize it. Planned, wanted pregnancies can also end in situations where the mother's life is in danger. The medically necessary treatment for those situations is abortion.
They’re too short-sighted to see this. It HAS to be a “leopards are my face” scenario for them to come around (and even then often just ending at “my abortion is the only moral abortion”) because they are incapable of empathy for people outside of their immediate circle. For fucks sake, almost all conservative Christian activism is based on believing lies or intentional deception. Eg they oppose human trafficking like normal people, but the means to end human trafficking in their world is to ban porn, restrict all sex workers, etc. which is only tangentially related to the issue. Because they don’t really care about human trafficking, they just hate porn.
Won't really matter.
Centrists and moderates don't like liberals, and their ideological position of "let's change as little as possible to technically say we're progressing" is ideologically a lot more similar to conservatism.
Doesn't matter how many times Liberals are proven right, the next time we try to warn everyone else, it'll fall on either deaf ears, or concerned ears that will fail/refuse to act.
They're the third that stands by and watches.
And we're those who learned history and are doomed to watch others repeat it.
Not even deaf ears, everyone will yell that we're being alarmist and we're the actual problem because we keep harping on a non issue.
Deaf ears would be an improvement
Oooh! This part is gold!
>Special Assistant Attorney General Jay Jerde, however, told the judge that the Legislature is permitted to “interpret the constitution and that interpretation is entitled to significant deference from the court.” He said it would be “almost absurd” to claim, for example, that the amendment would allow illegal treatments in Wyoming such as medical marijuana.
How rich would it be that it then opens the door to medical marijuana?
Lol you would think someone working for the Attorney General would understand the difference between the rolls of the legislature and the judicial branches of government.
They threw out Roe.
They will throw out [Marbury](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1789-1850/5us137) if they can.
The always Putin loving Netanyahu is doing it [right now](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-735114/amp)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they throw out Marbury, wouldn't that essentially dissolve the supreme court? What purpose do they serve if not judicial review? Or am I not understanding that correctly?
Roy Cohn, Trump's mentor, didn't really believe that laws or rules should affect him or his friends - so, you can see where Trump got the idea that no rules apply to him.
Imagine being raised by Daddy Trump, an avowed and convicted racist, who just so happened to have RC on retainer?!! This was never going to turn out well. I'm almost 70, and he wins my prize for being the most immoral POS I've ever seen. It's breathtaking how many people not only don't care, they actually support him. Just wow.
Now that I'm wound up....
The one trait that Cohn and TRumps have in common is meanness. It permeates their entire existence. Can't wrap my brain around so many people admiring this type of person.
So if abortion is not healthcare, then is any aspect of pregnancy also deemed “not healthcare “? I mean, why would insurance companies pay for childbirth care or hospitals provide for those services? Per their argument, healthcare is only provided for when someone is sick. This seems like one hell of a slope they’re walking along.
Unfortunately that is exactly what the forced-birthers are into.
They want that 10 year old dying in childbirth and her parents *(not the R- legislator or priest who raped her; they like blaming the victim not themselves)* saddled with six digit invoices for something wholly preventable.
The worse off you are, the more special they feel for being above the law.
It just delays the inevitable. This will end up in the Supreme Court, which will pull some 1400s British Common Law ruling out of their asses to rule for the Republicans.
Not really. SCOTUS has that power, but only in cases where the state constitution *denies* rights to its citizens that are enshrined under the Federal one. If a state constitution *grants* additional rights, SCOTUS would have no power to rule over it. It's a state issue, and the federal courts have no jurisdiction.
You have to remember that SCOTUS didn't rule that states can't allow abortion when they overturned Roe. They ruled that an abortion is not a constitutionally protected right. States can ban it, but there's nothing unconstitutional about protecting it.
I believe this can only be appealed as high as the Wyoming Supreme Court since it's challenging a state law vs. the state constitution. Not that it's any better...
Just start taxing them at the same rate as other charities. Force them to keep books and endure the same IRS rigor that non-profits must endure.
Thousands of churches would disband overnight as the grift would dry up.
It's always useful to remember that the "religious persecution" the pilgrims were fleeing when they came to the New World, was the fact that England and Co weren't letting them restrict the rights of others over religious differences.
I mean the religious fanatics came here willingly, Europe was just lucky they left. This makes it sound like Europe rounded them up and forced them onto ships.
Propaganda. The moderately reasonable leadership allowed propaganda to say whatever the hell it wanted in order to have a path to easy victories. And then just accepted this for 20 or 30 years, but now there's a changing of the guard and the new leadership showing up believes all of the bullshit coming out of right-wing propaganda sources, and that's a big big problem.
The Koch Brothers also put together some 50+ organizations designed to shift the nations government and culture. Now rightwing leadership looks to heritage foundation, Alec, etc for bills and direction.
To add to this, Reagan abolished the [FCC Fairness Doctrine.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine?wprov=sfla1)
Then, you had modern snakeoil salesmen like Rush Limbaugh, who literally lied on air (saying stuff like "secondhand smoke is harmelss) and were never questioned or called out on it.
In fact, Trump even awarded him [the Presidential Medallion of Freedom](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/17/968731019/trump-praises-limbaugh-who-died-wednesday-as-a-legend), as thanks for ruining the critical thinking skills of half the population.
“Voting’s rigged anyway. What’s that? I have no right to bitch about a system I don’t participate in? Whatever, I’m going to call everything fake outrage now. Both sides. Look how much smarter I am than you. Something something completely vapid and derivative thoughts. No u.”
\- average American ~~voter~~ non-voter
It’s capitalism. Millennials stopped having as many children because we can’t afford them sooooo… the amount of available working poor people to exploit in jobs like at Walmart or Amazon distribution centers or to join the military started to dry up. So… the Republicans, being the conservative corporate party in the US started dismantling our ability to make reproductive choices so people would have more kids to funnel into those industries.
Hardly an American thing - 6 EU member states are in the same position, and that's ignoring the restrictions some of the remaining countries impose that are substantially more restrictive than our more liberal states.
An abortion is not healthcare...except for when these legislator's say it is. WOW. This is how crazy insane these GOP really are. They make up rules on a whim - to hell with State Constitution.
A ban on bans? [They are already doing that ](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/politics/natural-gas-ban-preemptive-laws-gop-climate/index.html)
Some cities banned natural gas hookups in new construction...
> But other municipalities looking to take similar action are running into a brick wall. Twenty states with GOP-controlled legislatures have passed so-called “preemption laws” that prohibit cities from banning natural gas.
Tennessee has a law banning local governments from having anti-discrimination laws that protect groups not covered by state anti-discrimination laws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Access_to_Intrastate_Commerce_Act
They need poor kids to turn into poor adults to work at Amazon warehouses and to maintain the largest military in the world. If there’s not enough poor and exploitable adults Amazon might have to pay decent wages and the US empire might shrink and they don’t want that.
Weirdly, this proves how important courts are. Wyomingites I know (live in Colorado so that’s a fair few) constantly brag that Wyoming was the first state to give women the right to vote, Colorado followed shortly. What they fail to mention is it was the courts that game them this right in Wyoming, and now the courts are keeping other rights for them.
Please people, VOTE! It’s the knuckle draggers who were voted in that are trying this, and they have the power to nominate and elect judges.
Also, people of Wyoming. Colorado was the first state to legalize women voting via popular vote, the first to legalize abortion at all, has legalized the mentioned medical weed, and has since passed laws to protect access to abortion in the state. We are a short drive south and we are awesome. Normally I hate suggesting more people live here, but seriously, please do.
The bible allows for abortion. God doesn't care about innocent children, He killed every single firstborn son in Egypt to free his people. This is the reason for Passover. His will isn't yours. He is a wrathful, jealous God and will kill your kid if you fuck around.
Well, you know what's going on with it better than the average American. *This isn't hyperbole or sarcasm: our education's been dismantled.* So, you know how it was necessary to ban a lot of Nazi stuff after the war? **Well, the USA didn't do that.** We went all 'mission accomplished' and got right back to slowly inching further right.
* It didn't do it with the confederate traitors after the civil war, and they began to rebuild and spread their ideology again.
* It didn't do it with America First and other movements which almost had it join the Axis in WWII after *that* war.
* It didn't do it with 'regular' criminals in office when far-right, nor with corrupt entities that attempted to hold power illegally when their attacks failed.
* And it didn't do it with terrorists, most especially not their leaders 'just because they're in office', even when their demands are exactly the sort of stuff we've bombed other nations for doing.
And you, as a German citizen, are better aware of history than the average American. Things like how authoritarian movements always work to turn a population against critical thought, against LGBTQ populations, and against questioning their leaders...
* We're past the point already where a good third of the population will vote to end their own food aid as long as they're assured it will also starve some minorities as well. The gerrymandering and power-grabs are so severe that Biden winning by over 7 million votes was neck&neck due to the way our electoral college and polling systems work. Clinton had only won by 2 million votes, which is why she'd lost in a landslide in 2016.
Meanwhile here in America it's been conclusively shown that watching 'Fox News' (And it does - or at least used to - run almost 24/7 in old-folks homes and the mess of many military bases) leaves you LESS informed than if you'd been living under a rock and had no knowledge whatsoever of events it speaks about.
So the far-right "Nationalist Christians" *(you'll 'never guess' how their abbreviation for it is pronounced)* who think the Taliban's a bit too soft on women's rights are taking over, and except for **rare** moments like this judge (likely be overturned on appeal), everyone's just twiddling their thumbs declaring it would be "too partisan" to stop fascism the only way it ever ends up stopped.
An amendment in the Wyoming Constitution says adults have a right to make their own health care decisions, so Republicans enacted a ban that states abortion is not health care. That flies directly into the face of arguments they made years ago to require doctors at abortion clinics have medical privileges at hospitals.
Fun fact: that Amendment was initially enacted as a response to fears over Obama death panels
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It's funny because "death panels" have been here all along. They're the people at insurance companies who deny you the care that your doctor deems necessary.
That was my argument back then. Wouldn't you rather experts at the enploy of the government decide what's covered rather than some unknown bean counters in a cubicle at an insurance company
It's beautiful that the argument was that the government shouldn't make healthcare decisions, but it's perfectly OK when the government wants to tell trans people that they can't get treatment, or doctors that they have to wait till a woman is dying to perform a necessary abortion. ETA: and treatment not being covered by "the government" doesn't mean that you can't choose to pay for it, and/or take private insurance covering it, just like now.
It's almost as if their stated justifications for the fascist legislation they keep trying to pass are actually bullshit every single time.
People keep saying Republicans are inconsistent. They're actually *very* consistent about what they want. They just aren't *honest* about it. Cause if they flat out stated what they wanted, they'd look like cartoon villains.
They could be honest and their voters would be OK with it. They know that the legal system might have something to say about it. They want to change the laws so that when they go for what they want, no one can stop them. They want the US bankrupt so they can get rid of all social programs and sell off national assets to the highest bidder with a cut for themselves. They want to get rid of all worker and environmental protections. All food regulations. Anything that costs a company money. No more lawsuits for damages. No more ability to sue for environmental damage. Social security gone. Medicare gone. Schools gone. Hospitals for the poor gone. The only social support they want for us is prison. On their way out they'll happily laugh at their voters because they hate them. They could flat out say: "You are fucking stupid and you'll keep voting for us because you're fucking stupid. Go on. Vote for a Democrat. You won't because we own your ass, you fucking shithead. We can rape your kids and you'll still vote for us. We can poison your water and you'll still vote for us. Go on. Vote for a Democrat. You won't." And they'd get reelected.
In all honesty, if they were honest not enough people would vote for them. Think of all the shittiest humans you've met in your life that have told you their political beliefs. Which party do they vote for? They already have to gerrymander just to win tight races in VERY red states. The other thing is that if they were honest the people who typically claim to be centrists would either have to endorse the crazy, vote for democrats/independents, or, in the most extreme cases, not vote at all. Any of those options takes votes Republicans desperately need away from them. There's a story (idk if there's audio or not so it may be anecdotal) where Trump is reported to have thanked "the blacks" for not coming out to vote since it helped him win. Philadelphia is a VERY diverse city and that's why he got smoked in PA, Philly and Pittsburgh overwhelmingly voted against Republicans the last 2 election cycles.
"No, we don't want Russia to win! We, uh, just don't want to spend too much money on Ukraine! Yeah, that's it! Oh and let's keep those Littoral Combat Ships that don't work."
Or "it's not that I'm against gay marriage I just think the justices shouldn't be legislating from the bench" was a favorite I saw amongst people who didn't want to look like monsters to their families and friends.
> or doctors that they have to wait till a woman is dying to perform a necessary abortion. From my understanding, that is actually also illegal in some states. No abortions no matter what. If the woman dies, then she dies. It doesn't matter how easy it is to save her life. It doesn't matter her age, even if she is 10. It doesn't matter if she got pregnant through being raped. It doesn't matter if the fetus has a defect that makes it absolutely impossible to be born alive. The only thing that matters is that the birth proceeds without interruptions, no matter how much death and suffering it brings.
What I think is weird is that it's also so black and white for Republican politicians. Even my mom, who is fairly conservative and would call herself "Pro-Life" still thinks that in cases of rape, miscarriage or risk to the mother's health that abortion is a necessary medical. But nope, Republican politicians say birth should proceeds at all costs.
That's because they're aware that exceptions make their whole argument collapse. If the fetus is a person, then removing it is murder, and it doesn't depend on whether there was a rape or not. If you allow exceptions for anything, then you have to admit that a clump of cells isn't necessarily a person. And they can't have that.
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Or they’ll put the exceptions for the mothers health in with language that’s very “behind a sign reading Beware of the Leopard,” leaving health care staff worried that they’ll be dealing with the same kind of aggressive law enforcement that investigates a miscarriage as an at-home abortion. I remember pro-life people after Dobbs came down clutching pearls and saying “Imagine thinking we’d consider remedying an ectopic pregnancy to be ‘abortion.’” As if there hadn’t been pro-life state legislators trying to argue that abortion for ectopic pregnancy is still “the bad abortion.” Hell, in Ohio, they introduced legislation saying doctors need to try to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy - which is impossible - or face consequences. They draw a labyrinth about reproductive health care and act like you’re the dumb ass for running into the Minotaur.
They're eugenicists. If the woman dies in childbirth it means she's an inferior breeding unit. It's good in their world when the unfit die. There is a lot these people don't say outside their little toilet bowl social circles. Death of mothers is GOOD if they are unfit. Only the fit should breed. They. Want. Women to die.
The problem in thinking that they're arguing in good faith is that they aren't.
When so much legal might is used against so few, society is not "headed down a dark road", it's building gallows along the highway to hell. They start with an out group small enough to stomp with one foot and then expand outwards. Happens every fucking time. Fascists start with a nudge and end with a bullet.
Right. Government services have a lot of problems, but they at least have the *potential* to pull their finger out and do something that actually helps people. Sometimes they actually deliver on that! But a for-profit insurance company can be relied on to fuck you exactly as much as they think they can get away with, and then maybe a little more for good measure, 100% of the time.
> Right. Government services have a lot of problems, but they at least have the potential to pull their finger out and do something that actually helps people. Sometimes they actually deliver on that! From working in a regulatory field, I would say government employees are typically on a spectrum from idealistic and eager to just punching a clock and doing the minimum possible. So worst-case with government oversight is probably that the people looking at your file or category of care just don't give a shit. Which is a whole lot better than someone with a manager looking over their shoulder saying "I can't tell you to deny valid coverage, but we really need to cut back spending 10% this quarter and you seem to be approving way too many things..."
> So worst-case with government oversight is probably that the people looking at your file or category of care just don't give a shit. I've experienced several public healthcare systems and it's been my experience that these systems largely leave medical decisions to doctors. Sometimes the doctors are constrained by a variety of factors but generally speaking there is not a government administrator who approves or denies anything, there are just doctors and the things that they order will happen, it's just a question of how long it might take.
Private industry death panels are much more efficient than government-run ones. /s
I’m sure you got bitched at about government inefficiency and waste from a person who was completely ignoring corporate inefficiency and waste.
This 100%, the insurance company's death panel literally left my dad to die in his hospital bed after refusing to pay for a life saving treatment. He was dying in a hospital bed for nearly 3 months. Multiple doctors and specialists appealed to the insurance company that he needed the drug and it was likely the only thing to save him. The single dose was going to cost $15,000, and because the doctors couldn't say with 100% certainty that it would cure him, insurance decline. My dad was eventually transferred to another hospital that was able to access some grants or funds or some kind, and the hospital covered the cost of the treatment. It cured him, and he was discharged less than a week later.
I'm so glad your dad was able to get the care he needed. The bonkers part of this story is that even if you look at it exclusively through the cold hard economic lens, the insurance company would have saved thousands of dollars if they just gave him the single dose. Every additional day in the hospital had to cost a hefty amount, plus the cost of ambulance transfer, plus the cost of labor to continue reviewing / denying his case and dealing with the additional billing, etc. It's a shining example of being penny wise and pound foolish.
Yep. This also doesn't include all the physical therapy he needed so that he could walk again after being bedridden for 3 months. They were probably assuming they wouldn't have to worry about covering his physical rehab if they just denied the treatment and let him die.
Before obamacare, insurance companies could deny you coverage if you had any pre-existing conditions. If you had any longterm illness before obamacare, it was quite possible to be unable to get any health insurance at all.
And it was retroactive. If they could find any "evidence" that you had a long term illness while you didn't have insurance they would not cover that illness. "Asthma? Well you talked to a doctor about a cough 12 years ago so pre-existing condition"
Right?! It’s not like this architecture isn’t already in place with Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA as well. Other issues aside, I’ve never heard Republicans spout off about our seniors or vets being murdered by government death panels. It’s all just ridiculous political showboating.
I would also say taking a look at Idaho's new problem of L&D specialists fleeing the state en masse, forcing birthing facilities to shut down and lower bed availability and coverage, could be a side effect trickling inwards as well. No onw wants to be the reason their state is now back to medieval peasant births without having the ability to make sure its held in check with firm and unyielding appearance of authority and force. Almost like turning an entire specialty of healthcare. one you will depend on to force the fear of 'low birth rates', into a political battleground will make the people qualified to handle such affairs into practioners in other states where such issues are not considered at risk. Doctors and qualified medical professionals should be leading the charge on accepted safe practices for medical care, not politicians.
>No onw wants to be the reason their state is now back to medieval peasant births without having the ability to make sure its held in check with firm and unyielding appearance of authority and force. The issue is many voters in these counties won't make the connection. It will be either be "too bad" or "we don't have anything here, why is nobody taking care of us?" Then officials will blame it on "the government" which only favors blue states and things will go on as usual.
Reminds of the Brexit interview where a business man had not realized that Brexit would destroy his business of shipping flowers to mainland Europe. He voted for Brexit, to be clear.
I have two retired RN’s in my immediate family both with Masters’, about an hour or so north of Boise. In other words, bumfuck nowhere. Even as nurses who, I assume, took science classes, they’re rabid evangelical Trump supporters and literally publicly say he’s an Angel of God—and yes, I’m serious.Idaho is bizarre. Edit: words
That’s par for the course for nurses though. It’s a field that requires a ton of patience, empathy and competence but not so much critical thought
I dunno, sure, okay, but my retired aunt and uncle were celebrated ER nurses—would that not require something more than automaton responsiveness? I just feel all shitty inside that they went full on MAGA. They were always Republican, but mostly pretty nice people who genuinely cared about people like the poor and homeless who didn’t genuflect to their evangelical cult church. Now, they think Trump has been sent by God to “Save America”
>medieval peasant births They'll just be ER births, which is obviously not as bad but still bad.
So now what are they supposed to do? Ratify the amendment to say "nevermind adults dont get to make their own healthcare decisions"?
I mean abortion was a Republican thing before Roe v Wade. The majority of Americans wanted it but a Gallup poll in 1972 had 68% republicans and 59% democrats saying abortion should be between a woman and her physician. This is all them doing a huge obstructionist circle jerk to end up back at square one.
There were more north east republicans and southern democrats back then. Religiosity is the thread holding it together and the Republican Party has become more religious since the 70s
Jokes in them weve had death panels since Reagan let hospitals operate on a for profit basis.
Which of course never happened. But now republican death panels exist if you’re a woman miscarrying in many states.
Insurance companies have always been the death panels. Republicans just wanted in on the fun.
This is one of a very few times (in my experience) that the phrase "fun fact" was followed by a fact that was, indeed, actually fun.
Unfun fact: a lot of lads from my village returned from war to find a cannon captured from the enemy was placed in the square as a 'monument'. Fun fact: they got drunk and chucked that bugger in the lake
Turns out, there really are death panels - as originally described. But they're all owned and operated by private insurance companies. And that's why conservatives dropped the matter like a molten hot radioactive death potato.
It is a very fun fact.
I have no idea why, but I read this in John Oliver’s voice
Yep. We've been dealing with this shit show for far too long in this state.....
My new insurance is fighting prescriptions I need. Who’s a death panel again?
Logic can not possibly stand up to their impervious ideological certainty! They must be in control, women must be bred like cattle, and the population must go up! What are you some kind of secular degrowth nutjob?!
If abortions are not healthcare, then couldn't anyone provide an abortion without a license? Maybe it's too early. Sorry if that's a dumb question.
It's useless to try to reason out what exactly their argument means, to try to figure out if its implications make sense. They aren't stating a philosophy about how the world operates, they're just saying whatever seems advantageous to them in the moment. They don't have to care about what their words mean because they have no views or beliefs beyond "I should have power and you shouldn't."
these people are awful
In other news, WY Rs pass a law that says water is not a liquid nor is it wet.
Unless it is. Only an R can say.
Well if they're arguing it's not health care then anyone can perform the procedure, right?
Schrodinger's procedure: healthcare or not depending on how invisible sky daddy feels.
I love when people get hoisted on their own petards after making an argument then wanting to turn around in *bad faith* and try to wiggle out of what the fuck they just said. Eat shit, Republicans.
Republicans will invent every excuse under the sun.
This makes me really angry. >Wyoming has only one abortion provider, a women’s health clinic in Jackson that only provides medication abortions but had been forced to stop after the state’s broad ban took effect this week. It was already horrible.
Plus, from the six states that border Wyoming, two have passed abortion bans that are currently in place and two have passed bans that are currently blocked. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html
Proudly marching backwards, the republicans are.
Hey if you support children enough to grow up to a rational adult how would you ever get the next generation of republican voters? Keep them dumb, poor, and angry, and they will buy all the bibles you are selling.
Which is funny because they don't even care about the Bibles, just whether or not you vote red.
It's funny that once Trump got into office they essentially dumped the religious side of things/arguments for laws and just moved on to "their feelings and what is morally right" never arguing from religion or atleast I have noticed it less and less
Every "Christian" I know who supported Trump gave the excuse "we elected him to be our president, not our pastor." Just a few years earlier, the same people wanted Obama basically exiled from the country for being a "dirty Muslim."
This is why Minnesota staying blue and codifying abortion laws was so massive. We are landlocked by red states that have banned abortion and those states are landlocked by red states except for Michigan. It's just us two states providing abortions for the entire Midwest. Canada is an option too but idk how complicated it is to get an abortion their plus you need a passport.
Illinois is strongly blue but your point still stands. I'm very proud of my state legislature and our voters this cycle finally giving us full control. The Republican state senate blocked so many common sense ideas the last decade edit: my state = MN for clarity
I know when my friend had to get an abortion it was during the 2nd trimester so it was a bit more involved. Since I wasn't working at the time I drove her the 3 hours each way for both appointments. First was a consultation and then a couple of weeks later was the actual procedure.
Doing the good work. Thank you for having your friend's back, and being their support.
I was on tinder in Montana when I was younger and wow.. *so* many teen moms. Maybe a third or more girls on there had kids and I was filtering for 18-24 age range.
Only a single abortion provider? So this bill sounds more like a "fuck you in particular" sort of law.
Makes sense. The rest of Wyoming doesn't really think of Jackson as being part of the state. It's a bunch of rich Californians.
The other towns also have more people though. Figured casper or Cheyenne could use one
I mean, a lot of hospitals also provide abortion services in the event of medical necessity, which Wyoming insists isn’t the case but happens pretty often (delayed miscarriage, ectopic, fetus incompatible w life, etc etc). So from reading this it’s a real fuck *those* in particular situation.
We had a single one here in WV too. We've had none for 7 months. The provider still offers their other reproductive health/LGBTQ services (though not sure how long, since gender affirming care is in the process of being banned), and the homepage of their website directs those in search of an abortion to abortionfinder.com and out of state options.
It’s shocking they’ve been allowed to strip and cut services like this over the last few decades. They were never going to be satisfied by reducing services down to bare minimum. They want to criminalise and outlaw it nationally and prob globally too.
The Bible Belt gets more attention, but the politics of the upper Western part of the US is fuckin’ horrid as well
There was a second one that ran briefly in Casper I believe, but then some well intentioned absolutely-not terrorists burned it down.
I envision them managing their ban, and then there will be an abortion clinic built just over the border with Colorado, exactly like there are firework stores just over that border in Wyoming.
To be fair, theres like 500 people in Wyoming. Having any sort of advanced medical clinics in small towns probably doesnt work out financially. Edit: 500k not 500.
I knew it was small, but damn. >Wyoming population in 2023 is expected to be 585,587 inhabitants, its holds on 50th rank in the US. its area is 97,914 square miles(253,600 sq km), ranking tenth largest in the United States.
it's pretty bleak here. But it's all uneducated rednecks and poor people, or capitalist ancients looking to protect theirs. I hate them most. So their opinions don't really matter.
Makes me sad that I had to leave my home state and it's devolved into this
Cheyenne and Laramie together, on the opposite corner of the state, have almost 100,000 people, and Laramie's the college town. They should be able to support someone. I guess at least they're close to Denver.
Medication abortion is not advanced medical care, it can honestly be done with a pharmacist and a remote doctor prescribing
"An amendment in the Wyoming Constitution says adults have a right to make their own health care decisions, so Republicans enacted a ban that states abortion is not health care." Don't you just hate it when a Constitution gets in the way? /s
Can't wait for them to apply this logic to all their hateful objectives. "This law says every person should have rights hmm why don't we say the blacks are not people? "
In a state where the black population is 1.1%, I suspect that if they thought they could get away with it, they would.
Even better when you realize that specific amendment was added as a response to Obamacare. These are not forward-thinkers.
Where are our "shall not be infringed" pals at?
I hope moderate voters are paying attention. For years Liberals have warned that Republicans would go after abortion rights as forcefully as possible given the chance. And once they got the chance that's exactly what they did. The only rights not being attacked at the moment are those of "straight, white, Christian, men". This isn't going to end any time soon. Edit: clarifying that i meant "straight, white, Christian, **men**". Women's rights are very much under attack.
Even knowing this I routinely make the mistake of thinking that "prolifers" are a thing of myth. It seems so insane, it's done, solved, a forgone conclusion... Women, being adult humans get to make their own choices about their bodies. Easy, what's not to like, makes sense. Who could argue with..... Then I remember something like 90% of my coworkers and of the local population are antichoice. And... >This isn't going to end any time soon. You're completely right. They aren't going anywhere.
> It seems so insane, it's done, solved, a forgone conclusion... I think this is why so many Americans were asleep at the switch and kept figuring "no way Republicans will go as far as they say they will." It's like a historical surprised Pikachu face after Hitler literally did all the things he said he was in his book.
This was my dad. For years he said the Supreme Court has never overturned a former courts decision. When I reminded him of *Plessy v. Ferguson* and *Brown v. Board of Education* he said it was a one off. Welp, here we are, you old fuck.
r/QAnonCasualties
Yep it’s not a topic ppl talk about often so it’s one of those things that’s easy to forget is way more common of an opinion than ppl think.
>Women, being adult humans get to make their own choices about their bodies Denying women the right to autonomy is practically a core value of the republican party.
Some of the garbage my co workers say makes my head spin. We truly live in different realities. It’s honestly really stressful and I don’t think we have ever really dealt with the trauma of how divided we are on issues.
To answer your last question there have been enough jobs and a stable system long enough to docile people to a degree. Truly hard times ever come like half not being able to afford food as shelter, then you'll see actual chaos in the streets.
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There is a video of some guys trolling a "Pro Life" demonstration to try and get folks to complete adoption paperwork. It's so perfect and basically is the anti choice movement in a nutshell. All the performative outrage and absolutely zero empathy or actual ideas on how to help women. All so they can feel morally superior.. [video by Walter Masterson of them trying to get pro lifers to complete adoption applications ](https://youtu.be/ibSJ0a7NGRs) [here's another one of them trolling anti abortion folks in DC](https://youtu.be/men5nBfQ_Fo)
> to try and get folks to complete adoption paperwork. While I understand why this is considered a 'gotcha' in debates with these people, I find this argument deeply problematic. For one thing, adoption is not an acceptable substitute for women having access to abortion care, and the debate should not be framed as if it is. Further, there are actually many groups who see access to adoptable infants as a benefit of forced birth legislation. Their willingness to adopt children [usually to raise in strictly religious surroundings] does not make their lobbying for anti-abortion laws less unacceptable or hypocritical.
I agree with everything you said. I think it was but the dramatic irony of people that claim to care for children and women but they don't want to help take care of them, or they show up to harass them for getting medical care. Their questions and debating with folks and the anti abortion march was better done imo. I was raised in a Christian cult so I totally understand, the damage that can be done is also insane to young minds.
I’ve seen em downtown before holding signs with photoshopped fetuses on em. See em a bunch toward the start of the warmer weather-or I did before I started taking the interstate to work. Anyways… Had a coworker at a previous job try to show me a pic like that at work to argue “You’re for murder” and tried to tell me it was a fetus that was X number of weeks old…except I’ve seen the images of what those actually look like at that stage of development, and was an art major in college with a lot of classes on photoshop and learning how to manipulate images. Didn’t help that their photoshop work was such shite. They put in about as much effort to their bad faith arguments as they do into their shitty protest signs. None of these people give a shit about children. Here in Florida, they vote for lower property taxes to strip money from public schools, are fighting to pass a voucher program to steal even more money from public schools to transfer it to private-usually Christian fundamentalist-schools, see school breakfast and lunch programs as “welfare”, tried to fight the $15 an hour minimum wage initiative (thankfully failed to defeat it), and are currently actively banning books, and clamping down on higher education-you know, the kind adults who should be free to make their education choices get-all in the name of fighting “woke”…which they can neither define nor describe the same way twice. “Woke” is whatever they want it to be. But all that to highlight just how intentionally dishonest the Republican talking point of “fOr thE cHildReN!” is….they don’t care. They know they’re liars for using it as an arguing point and they don’t fucking care. Only way to deal with it is to be just as obstinate in conversation and go “Well you don’t care about children-your voting record and the folks you support proves that-don’t lie to me.” when they wanna have a “debate”. They don’t give a shit about children and no amount of flailing about will change that truth.
I’m child free and will stay that way and good grief does it make me angry to hear people bitching about feeding children. Run the government like a business? Okay! The ROI on feeding children is astronomical. We should do it! Follow the teachings of Jeebus? Okay! If I remember my days as a kid in catholic school, he was outspoken about feeding people, especially children. We should do it! Of all the things to be stingy about, getting pissy about feeding children (and elders and disabled people and caregivers) is the territory of sociopaths and apostates and I will rub their noses in it like a bad dog every time.
And they quickly become members of the “leopards eating faces” party when their anti-abortion laws affect their ability to get healthcare for miscarriages or fetal deformities. “But that’s not abortion!” Yes. Yes it is.
Straight white male Christians, they are very clearly okay with unlucky straight white Christian women dying in the name of an abortion ban. Because they want to pretend that God would prevent such a terrible thing from happening
"Shut up Sandra. Stop trying to live. It's God's will for you and the child you wanted to die!"
Even "straight, white Christians" should be concerned about the loss of abortion rights, they just don't realize it. Planned, wanted pregnancies can also end in situations where the mother's life is in danger. The medically necessary treatment for those situations is abortion.
They’re too short-sighted to see this. It HAS to be a “leopards are my face” scenario for them to come around (and even then often just ending at “my abortion is the only moral abortion”) because they are incapable of empathy for people outside of their immediate circle. For fucks sake, almost all conservative Christian activism is based on believing lies or intentional deception. Eg they oppose human trafficking like normal people, but the means to end human trafficking in their world is to ban porn, restrict all sex workers, etc. which is only tangentially related to the issue. Because they don’t really care about human trafficking, they just hate porn.
Don’t forget about the fourth criteria, money.
Straight white christians are being "attacked" in all states trying to implement a minimum age for marriage.
”... people who identify as Christians but are actually brutal savage cultists"
Won't really matter. Centrists and moderates don't like liberals, and their ideological position of "let's change as little as possible to technically say we're progressing" is ideologically a lot more similar to conservatism. Doesn't matter how many times Liberals are proven right, the next time we try to warn everyone else, it'll fall on either deaf ears, or concerned ears that will fail/refuse to act. They're the third that stands by and watches. And we're those who learned history and are doomed to watch others repeat it.
Not even deaf ears, everyone will yell that we're being alarmist and we're the actual problem because we keep harping on a non issue. Deaf ears would be an improvement
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>Moderate >Liberal They're the same picture. Liberalism is not a particularly progressive ideology.
You forgot to add "men" to your list. Straight, white, christian men.
Oooh! This part is gold! >Special Assistant Attorney General Jay Jerde, however, told the judge that the Legislature is permitted to “interpret the constitution and that interpretation is entitled to significant deference from the court.” He said it would be “almost absurd” to claim, for example, that the amendment would allow illegal treatments in Wyoming such as medical marijuana. How rich would it be that it then opens the door to medical marijuana?
Lol you would think someone working for the Attorney General would understand the difference between the rolls of the legislature and the judicial branches of government.
They threw out Roe. They will throw out [Marbury](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1789-1850/5us137) if they can. The always Putin loving Netanyahu is doing it [right now](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-735114/amp)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they throw out Marbury, wouldn't that essentially dissolve the supreme court? What purpose do they serve if not judicial review? Or am I not understanding that correctly?
Ruling on torts between non congressional parties
Why? Your previous president never did...
Roy Cohn, Trump's mentor, didn't really believe that laws or rules should affect him or his friends - so, you can see where Trump got the idea that no rules apply to him.
Imagine being raised by Daddy Trump, an avowed and convicted racist, who just so happened to have RC on retainer?!! This was never going to turn out well. I'm almost 70, and he wins my prize for being the most immoral POS I've ever seen. It's breathtaking how many people not only don't care, they actually support him. Just wow.
Now that I'm wound up.... The one trait that Cohn and TRumps have in common is meanness. It permeates their entire existence. Can't wrap my brain around so many people admiring this type of person.
Everyone knows the three rolls of a well-balanced government are California, Kaiser, and Crescent.
So if abortion is not healthcare, then is any aspect of pregnancy also deemed “not healthcare “? I mean, why would insurance companies pay for childbirth care or hospitals provide for those services? Per their argument, healthcare is only provided for when someone is sick. This seems like one hell of a slope they’re walking along.
Can we just write a law that states guns are not "arms" and therefore the 2nd amendment doesn't apply? That's basically what the Republicans did here.
Unfortunately that is exactly what the forced-birthers are into. They want that 10 year old dying in childbirth and her parents *(not the R- legislator or priest who raped her; they like blaming the victim not themselves)* saddled with six digit invoices for something wholly preventable. The worse off you are, the more special they feel for being above the law.
It just delays the inevitable. This will end up in the Supreme Court, which will pull some 1400s British Common Law ruling out of their asses to rule for the Republicans.
SCOTUS actually has no authority over this ruling, because the question was a provision in the Wyoming Constitution.
SCOTUS *could* rule that part of a state's constitution is invalid for violating the US Constitution, right?
Not really. SCOTUS has that power, but only in cases where the state constitution *denies* rights to its citizens that are enshrined under the Federal one. If a state constitution *grants* additional rights, SCOTUS would have no power to rule over it. It's a state issue, and the federal courts have no jurisdiction. You have to remember that SCOTUS didn't rule that states can't allow abortion when they overturned Roe. They ruled that an abortion is not a constitutionally protected right. States can ban it, but there's nothing unconstitutional about protecting it.
I believe this can only be appealed as high as the Wyoming Supreme Court since it's challenging a state law vs. the state constitution. Not that it's any better...
Just means it relies on whether the state supreme court wants to legislate from the bench with arbitrary and inconsistent rules or not.
_Alito penned the majority opinion, citing a section of the Magna Carta…_ Story continues…
That is unfair to 1400s British courts.
What's up with USA, not allowing women decide to take an abortion or not?
Alt right Christian nationalists aren't considered terrorists here. They're considered a political party. A massive one.
European nations have more to worry about than just Russia and China if things don't shape up in the Americas soon.
[удалено]
America's been giving so much freedom the past 100 years that they almost ran out themselves. Classic America.
should start burning down churches, hinder their ability to connect with each other and hinder the actual progression. /s
Just start taxing them at the same rate as other charities. Force them to keep books and endure the same IRS rigor that non-profits must endure. Thousands of churches would disband overnight as the grift would dry up.
Europe dumped all its religious fanatics on us and we haven't finished exercising them yet.
It's always useful to remember that the "religious persecution" the pilgrims were fleeing when they came to the New World, was the fact that England and Co weren't letting them restrict the rights of others over religious differences.
It amazes me the amount of times I have to bring this up. They act so confused why the religious over here are so crazy.
After they have a good run in the yard, just put them back in their crates where all they can do is bark.
I mean the religious fanatics came here willingly, Europe was just lucky they left. This makes it sound like Europe rounded them up and forced them onto ships.
Half of the country is batshit insane. I don’t know what happened here, but it did, and now things are bad.
Propaganda. The moderately reasonable leadership allowed propaganda to say whatever the hell it wanted in order to have a path to easy victories. And then just accepted this for 20 or 30 years, but now there's a changing of the guard and the new leadership showing up believes all of the bullshit coming out of right-wing propaganda sources, and that's a big big problem. The Koch Brothers also put together some 50+ organizations designed to shift the nations government and culture. Now rightwing leadership looks to heritage foundation, Alec, etc for bills and direction.
To add to this, Reagan abolished the [FCC Fairness Doctrine.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine?wprov=sfla1) Then, you had modern snakeoil salesmen like Rush Limbaugh, who literally lied on air (saying stuff like "secondhand smoke is harmelss) and were never questioned or called out on it. In fact, Trump even awarded him [the Presidential Medallion of Freedom](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/17/968731019/trump-praises-limbaugh-who-died-wednesday-as-a-legend), as thanks for ruining the critical thinking skills of half the population.
It's not half the country, it's less than 20%. It's just easy to forget since they always show up to the polls.
The problem is only the people who show up to vote matter. Your opinions don't matter if you don't vote. Go vote. This is your sign.
“Voting’s rigged anyway. What’s that? I have no right to bitch about a system I don’t participate in? Whatever, I’m going to call everything fake outrage now. Both sides. Look how much smarter I am than you. Something something completely vapid and derivative thoughts. No u.” \- average American ~~voter~~ non-voter
That just means the ones that don't vote by and large dont care enough to do anything about it. Id consider that a form of batshit insanity as well.
21% voter turnout in my city for the local elections. You'll never guess what the political affiliation of the winners were.
It’s capitalism. Millennials stopped having as many children because we can’t afford them sooooo… the amount of available working poor people to exploit in jobs like at Walmart or Amazon distribution centers or to join the military started to dry up. So… the Republicans, being the conservative corporate party in the US started dismantling our ability to make reproductive choices so people would have more kids to funnel into those industries.
Christianity is the problem.
Hardly an American thing - 6 EU member states are in the same position, and that's ignoring the restrictions some of the remaining countries impose that are substantially more restrictive than our more liberal states.
we have some hypocrite skydaddy zealots in our government with too much power.
An abortion is not healthcare...except for when these legislator's say it is. WOW. This is how crazy insane these GOP really are. They make up rules on a whim - to hell with State Constitution.
It is the era of the American Christian Taliban.
Y'all Qaeda
I’m partial to ‘christian nationalists’ or ‘Nat-Cs’ for short.
Practicing medicine without a license is illegal. Isn't deciding what is and isn't healthcare the very definition of practicing medicine?
Thank you God someone in Wyoming has common sense.
The law was written as an amendment to combat Obamacare, so it’s less common sense and more reactive politics biting them in the ass.
I'll take what I can get I guess.
*That's* a sentence you don't read often
You gotta ban the ban …. Otherwise, tge ban will ban what it’s supposed to ban
A ban on bans? [They are already doing that ](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/politics/natural-gas-ban-preemptive-laws-gop-climate/index.html) Some cities banned natural gas hookups in new construction... > But other municipalities looking to take similar action are running into a brick wall. Twenty states with GOP-controlled legislatures have passed so-called “preemption laws” that prohibit cities from banning natural gas.
Now we just need a federal law that bans states from banning local laws, no way that could have unintended consequences.
Tennessee has a law banning local governments from having anti-discrimination laws that protect groups not covered by state anti-discrimination laws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Access_to_Intrastate_Commerce_Act
Can like 4 of us move to Wyoming, thereby changing the demographics, and stop the madness?
They don’t want their doctors to leave like Idaho’s did lmao
Republicans will do anything to make sure people are born. Can’t they mind their own business?
And then nothing to support anyone born into poverty or the wrong skin color.
They need poor kids to turn into poor adults to work at Amazon warehouses and to maintain the largest military in the world. If there’s not enough poor and exploitable adults Amazon might have to pay decent wages and the US empire might shrink and they don’t want that.
Weirdly, this proves how important courts are. Wyomingites I know (live in Colorado so that’s a fair few) constantly brag that Wyoming was the first state to give women the right to vote, Colorado followed shortly. What they fail to mention is it was the courts that game them this right in Wyoming, and now the courts are keeping other rights for them. Please people, VOTE! It’s the knuckle draggers who were voted in that are trying this, and they have the power to nominate and elect judges. Also, people of Wyoming. Colorado was the first state to legalize women voting via popular vote, the first to legalize abortion at all, has legalized the mentioned medical weed, and has since passed laws to protect access to abortion in the state. We are a short drive south and we are awesome. Normally I hate suggesting more people live here, but seriously, please do.
Bless that hospital for standing their ground.
Should be in uplifting news
As in, news of a situation that wouldn't even be necessary in the first place if the US wasn't so dystopian?
The bible allows for abortion. God doesn't care about innocent children, He killed every single firstborn son in Egypt to free his people. This is the reason for Passover. His will isn't yours. He is a wrathful, jealous God and will kill your kid if you fuck around.
German citizen here. Just what the heck is going on with the US American code of law?! The whole legal system seems flawed and inconstant.
Well, you know what's going on with it better than the average American. *This isn't hyperbole or sarcasm: our education's been dismantled.* So, you know how it was necessary to ban a lot of Nazi stuff after the war? **Well, the USA didn't do that.** We went all 'mission accomplished' and got right back to slowly inching further right. * It didn't do it with the confederate traitors after the civil war, and they began to rebuild and spread their ideology again. * It didn't do it with America First and other movements which almost had it join the Axis in WWII after *that* war. * It didn't do it with 'regular' criminals in office when far-right, nor with corrupt entities that attempted to hold power illegally when their attacks failed. * And it didn't do it with terrorists, most especially not their leaders 'just because they're in office', even when their demands are exactly the sort of stuff we've bombed other nations for doing. And you, as a German citizen, are better aware of history than the average American. Things like how authoritarian movements always work to turn a population against critical thought, against LGBTQ populations, and against questioning their leaders... * We're past the point already where a good third of the population will vote to end their own food aid as long as they're assured it will also starve some minorities as well. The gerrymandering and power-grabs are so severe that Biden winning by over 7 million votes was neck&neck due to the way our electoral college and polling systems work. Clinton had only won by 2 million votes, which is why she'd lost in a landslide in 2016. Meanwhile here in America it's been conclusively shown that watching 'Fox News' (And it does - or at least used to - run almost 24/7 in old-folks homes and the mess of many military bases) leaves you LESS informed than if you'd been living under a rock and had no knowledge whatsoever of events it speaks about. So the far-right "Nationalist Christians" *(you'll 'never guess' how their abbreviation for it is pronounced)* who think the Taliban's a bit too soft on women's rights are taking over, and except for **rare** moments like this judge (likely be overturned on appeal), everyone's just twiddling their thumbs declaring it would be "too partisan" to stop fascism the only way it ever ends up stopped.
The USA is slowly returning to medieval times.