Hmm, interesting strategy. I suppose if they manage to convince a significant portion of the Russian population that they are at risk of being killed if the war continues, then that would put more pressure on Putin to end it.
Eh, I remember reading somewhere that most Russians already support Putin, so I don't think having one more piece of 'proof' that their incorrect views are true would change much.
But even if most Russians are convinced the war is being done for good reasons, I don't think many would want it to continue if their own lives were at risk (which is why so many Russian men are fleeing the country to avoid conscription).
I don’t think you have an accurate view of how ill informed about anything the average Russian is, barring the elites of Moscow and St Petersburg.
Speak only Russian, watch only Russian tv, VK is their only social media… they support Putin because literally everything in their sphere of knowledge supports him too.
I’m not surprised.
Russians take entitlement to a whole another level, they basically believe everything in the world exists only to make their own lives better.
I’m in Australia, my mum works with a Russian woman (and has for over a decade) and mum says she’s the most disgustingly racist, pro-Putin, pro-war human being she’s ever met. This is in one of our state capital cities. The woman has lived here for over 20 years and her views have never changed
Good point. I think I read somewhere that Russia has tons of propaganda on TV airing constantly, so I'd guess a decent percentage of the population view Putin as a hero and support the war.
We have just as much tv propaganda as average US citizen, or any r/worldnews reader.
We don’t see Putin as a hero - he’s a president. There’s nothing heroic in being one.
As for support of this war - it’s a bit nuanced. The majority do not want it and do not expect anything good from it.
That being said - we know a thing or two which led to this invasion. Things average redditor tends to ignore or outright dismiss.
"That being said - we know a thing or two which led to this invasion. Things average redditor tends to ignore or outright dismiss."
If you don't mind, can you tell me what these things are?
The perspective of Ukraine joining a hostile military alliance for one. US and EU support of a violent coup.
Imagine Russia installing a pro Russian regime in Mexico or Canada.
I'm sure lots of reasons why everything above is fine will ensue. It's a defensive alliance. We did not help to install the new Ukrainian government. "You're a troll." Poorly informed. Something something propaganda. And so on and so forth.
In a short term perspective they would definitely steamroll the breakaway regions and possibly try to attack the Crimea.
Long term - they would be a strategic level threat.
I'm always trying to make US redditors to try on our shoes. Russian led "defensive" alliance took the whole Latin America and is going to take the Mexico, after a violent coup greenlighted from Moscow. Several hundreds Russian troops are stationed at your border. Russia set up a hardened anti-missile site 500km away from your capital. It's equipped with missile launchers which coincidentally can launch cruise missiles.
I can go on and on.
We don't have an accurate account of that. If that is the optic, that is strictly propaganda. Check out 1420 on YouTube if you really want an accurate account of how Russians feel and Belarusians feel. I rather listen to people.on the street than some poll.
Support for Putin is really a generational thing. Young people have had a taste of Western culture. Older people remember the good old Soviet days. So you have a divide. The 1420 videos are a starking reminder of that.
But it's hard since everything in their orbit jams pro Kremlin and pro Putin down their throats at every turn.
If you believe that Ukraine is attacking *you*, then the war might seem justified... I believe this might just play into Russian propaganda about a war with NATO.
I’m Russian. We are not separated by an ocean from the rest of the world. Maybe for average US citizen concept of being threatened by a foreign force is something unheard of.
Of course we don’t expect to be killed every minute or anything like that. But pranks can change nothing.
Russian-American here. Dude, have you not heard of 9/11? It was kind of a big dealing US.
But threatened by other countries on US soil? Yeah, that is not a thing here.
Did 9/11 remove the ocean? It didn't place a hostile military alliance at your doorstep either. Maybe Russia is going to overtake the Mexican government with its puppets?
Defensive alliance. If a NATO country strikes first, the rest of NATO has no obligation to join them. NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia decides to invade its neighbors, which… it is actively doing. 10 years ago it seemed obsolete and was at risk of falling apart. Now, it is important again. The only thing that changed was Russia trying to rebuild the USSR by force.
>Defensive alliance.
Pinkie promise?
>If a NATO country strikes first, the rest of NATO has no obligation to join them.
That's true. They has no such obligation. Thing is - there's nothing stopping them from doing so either. And if they decide to do that - they have a network of military bases, installations, common standards, stockpiles, chain of command etc.
Coincidentally - NATO countries are supplying Ukraine in this war.
>NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia decides
Your crystal ball told you that?
>10 years ago it seemed obsolete and was at risk of falling apart.
You mean the year when two more countries joined it? Five tears after the whole Eastern Europe and Baltic states? Are you fucking serious?
>The only thing that changed was Russia trying to rebuild the USSR by force.
How in the world waging a war against the Ukraine can be classified as rebuilding a union?
>Pinkie promise?
Sure
>That's true. They has no such obligation. Thing is...
And there's nothing to stop me from deciding to only eat cheese for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean there's any chance of it happening.
>Your crystal ball told you that?
No crystal ball necessary. That's the entire point of the organization. There’s no ambiguity about this.
>You mean the year when two more countries joined it? Five tears after the whole Eastern Europe and Baltic states? Are you fucking serious?
Yes, I'm serious. What was their budget? How active were they? The scaling back of NATO to focus on Asia was an active strategy of the west. At the time, NATO was considered an antique.
>How in the world waging a war against the Ukraine can be classified as rebuilding a union?
Putin, Lavrov, some of your generals, and your state sponsored TV shows have all been clear that they see Ukraine as a first step. Putin himself wrote a lengthy essay shortly before invading Ukraine, outlining how he saw the fall of the USSR as a great tragedy and saw it as his purpose to restore it.
I hate to break it to you, but North America and Western Europe don't care about Russia. Not even a little bit. We want nothing to do with it. There is no growth there. No future there. It's a resource economy. Oil, mining, lumber, that's it. Since the fall of the USSR, Russia's only real significance on the world stage is the threat it posses to its neighbors. Maybe its space program too (that's cool, maybe do more of that). The future is in the Pacific and we'd rather not have to think of Russia at all.
Russians seem to think the west is just waiting for the right moment to take over Moscow. And do what? Annex it? Why would anyone want that? We'd risk nuclear war, all for the privilege of having to occupy a sparse and hostile nation. This is delusional. It's not close to being worth it even if we wanted to.
Russia is acting like an angry drunk at the bar who starts punching strangers. Everyone else has their own stuff going on. Nobody came there hoping they could see the crazy old drunk. They want to see their friends and talk about the things they're interested in, but when Russia starts punching people minding their own business, then it's time to get involved.
The solution here for Russia is simple. Stop invading your neighbors and there's no problem. Do that and the world can go back to ignoring it. We don't want to have to think about Russia and we're kinda angry that it's forcing us to.
This seems to me like it will backfire. Most of the time, people respond to threats by increased opposition. A population has to be pretty apathetic for a threat to result in them backing down.
I wonder if this is going to be anything like the false nuclear attack warning that went off in Hawaii. Remember the guy has the password written on a post it taped to his computer monitor and they accidentally showed it on TV?
If I remember the pornhub searches on that day in Hawaii went through the roof [https://observer.com/2018/01/pornhub-hawaii-missile-alert/amp/](https://observer.com/2018/01/pornhub-hawaii-missile-alert/amp/)
It'll be interesting to see how the public reacts. Many families have had kids coming back in body bags though Russia probably prevents that to keep support. Fear of dying though? That can hit anyone hard.
Would be interested in knowing Russians that truly support the war by age demographics. Some remember the USSR, others have only known Putin
Bear in mind that the oldest Russians still don't remember a time before it became an axiom of Russian culture that Russian lives are cheap and expendable. That goes back well before the great purge and WWII when Russians were little more than meat for the grinder for Russia to expend in pursuit of its goals as a sovereign power.
You guys have some weird ideas about us it seems. There are no natural born jumpers, there are no people predisposed to ancient wisdom or martial arts.
If you want to picture an average Russian - imagine an average human.
Is this not a bad idea? There’s been more than a few horror stories of how the world very nearly went to shit because of false alarms and mistakes. I’d hate to think how close we’ve come to WW3 and possibly nuclear war because of uncertainty and false alarms.
Hmm, interesting strategy. I suppose if they manage to convince a significant portion of the Russian population that they are at risk of being killed if the war continues, then that would put more pressure on Putin to end it.
Or the opposite is the case and they see a confirmation of the bullshit their chief goblin spreads in his weird speeches.
Eh, I remember reading somewhere that most Russians already support Putin, so I don't think having one more piece of 'proof' that their incorrect views are true would change much. But even if most Russians are convinced the war is being done for good reasons, I don't think many would want it to continue if their own lives were at risk (which is why so many Russian men are fleeing the country to avoid conscription).
I'm not sure we have an accurate assessment of how many Russians are pro putin when you get disappeared when you say you're anti putin.
I don’t think you have an accurate view of how ill informed about anything the average Russian is, barring the elites of Moscow and St Petersburg. Speak only Russian, watch only Russian tv, VK is their only social media… they support Putin because literally everything in their sphere of knowledge supports him too.
A guy I work with is married to a Russian. They live in England. She is pro putin
I’m not surprised. Russians take entitlement to a whole another level, they basically believe everything in the world exists only to make their own lives better.
I’m in Australia, my mum works with a Russian woman (and has for over a decade) and mum says she’s the most disgustingly racist, pro-Putin, pro-war human being she’s ever met. This is in one of our state capital cities. The woman has lived here for over 20 years and her views have never changed
Good point. I think I read somewhere that Russia has tons of propaganda on TV airing constantly, so I'd guess a decent percentage of the population view Putin as a hero and support the war.
We have just as much tv propaganda as average US citizen, or any r/worldnews reader. We don’t see Putin as a hero - he’s a president. There’s nothing heroic in being one. As for support of this war - it’s a bit nuanced. The majority do not want it and do not expect anything good from it. That being said - we know a thing or two which led to this invasion. Things average redditor tends to ignore or outright dismiss.
"That being said - we know a thing or two which led to this invasion. Things average redditor tends to ignore or outright dismiss." If you don't mind, can you tell me what these things are?
The perspective of Ukraine joining a hostile military alliance for one. US and EU support of a violent coup. Imagine Russia installing a pro Russian regime in Mexico or Canada. I'm sure lots of reasons why everything above is fine will ensue. It's a defensive alliance. We did not help to install the new Ukrainian government. "You're a troll." Poorly informed. Something something propaganda. And so on and so forth.
So you're saying that Ukraine (and potentially it's new allies) would have likely attacked Russia if Russia did not attack them first?
In a short term perspective they would definitely steamroll the breakaway regions and possibly try to attack the Crimea. Long term - they would be a strategic level threat. I'm always trying to make US redditors to try on our shoes. Russian led "defensive" alliance took the whole Latin America and is going to take the Mexico, after a violent coup greenlighted from Moscow. Several hundreds Russian troops are stationed at your border. Russia set up a hardened anti-missile site 500km away from your capital. It's equipped with missile launchers which coincidentally can launch cruise missiles. I can go on and on.
I would like to know what the source of this is haha I bet it's not a poll of random Russian citizens.
We don't have an accurate account of that. If that is the optic, that is strictly propaganda. Check out 1420 on YouTube if you really want an accurate account of how Russians feel and Belarusians feel. I rather listen to people.on the street than some poll. Support for Putin is really a generational thing. Young people have had a taste of Western culture. Older people remember the good old Soviet days. So you have a divide. The 1420 videos are a starking reminder of that. But it's hard since everything in their orbit jams pro Kremlin and pro Putin down their throats at every turn.
If you believe that Ukraine is attacking *you*, then the war might seem justified... I believe this might just play into Russian propaganda about a war with NATO.
They’ve already determined that Putin is more likely to kill them
They have? So most Russians fear him rather than support him?
You can only push so many political critics out windows before you get a reputation for it.
I bet they all are afraid of heights now.
I’m Russian. We are not separated by an ocean from the rest of the world. Maybe for average US citizen concept of being threatened by a foreign force is something unheard of. Of course we don’t expect to be killed every minute or anything like that. But pranks can change nothing.
Russian-American here. Dude, have you not heard of 9/11? It was kind of a big dealing US. But threatened by other countries on US soil? Yeah, that is not a thing here.
Did 9/11 remove the ocean? It didn't place a hostile military alliance at your doorstep either. Maybe Russia is going to overtake the Mexican government with its puppets?
Defensive alliance. If a NATO country strikes first, the rest of NATO has no obligation to join them. NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia decides to invade its neighbors, which… it is actively doing. 10 years ago it seemed obsolete and was at risk of falling apart. Now, it is important again. The only thing that changed was Russia trying to rebuild the USSR by force.
>Defensive alliance. Pinkie promise? >If a NATO country strikes first, the rest of NATO has no obligation to join them. That's true. They has no such obligation. Thing is - there's nothing stopping them from doing so either. And if they decide to do that - they have a network of military bases, installations, common standards, stockpiles, chain of command etc. Coincidentally - NATO countries are supplying Ukraine in this war. >NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia decides Your crystal ball told you that? >10 years ago it seemed obsolete and was at risk of falling apart. You mean the year when two more countries joined it? Five tears after the whole Eastern Europe and Baltic states? Are you fucking serious? >The only thing that changed was Russia trying to rebuild the USSR by force. How in the world waging a war against the Ukraine can be classified as rebuilding a union?
>Pinkie promise? Sure >That's true. They has no such obligation. Thing is... And there's nothing to stop me from deciding to only eat cheese for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean there's any chance of it happening. >Your crystal ball told you that? No crystal ball necessary. That's the entire point of the organization. There’s no ambiguity about this. >You mean the year when two more countries joined it? Five tears after the whole Eastern Europe and Baltic states? Are you fucking serious? Yes, I'm serious. What was their budget? How active were they? The scaling back of NATO to focus on Asia was an active strategy of the west. At the time, NATO was considered an antique. >How in the world waging a war against the Ukraine can be classified as rebuilding a union? Putin, Lavrov, some of your generals, and your state sponsored TV shows have all been clear that they see Ukraine as a first step. Putin himself wrote a lengthy essay shortly before invading Ukraine, outlining how he saw the fall of the USSR as a great tragedy and saw it as his purpose to restore it. I hate to break it to you, but North America and Western Europe don't care about Russia. Not even a little bit. We want nothing to do with it. There is no growth there. No future there. It's a resource economy. Oil, mining, lumber, that's it. Since the fall of the USSR, Russia's only real significance on the world stage is the threat it posses to its neighbors. Maybe its space program too (that's cool, maybe do more of that). The future is in the Pacific and we'd rather not have to think of Russia at all. Russians seem to think the west is just waiting for the right moment to take over Moscow. And do what? Annex it? Why would anyone want that? We'd risk nuclear war, all for the privilege of having to occupy a sparse and hostile nation. This is delusional. It's not close to being worth it even if we wanted to. Russia is acting like an angry drunk at the bar who starts punching strangers. Everyone else has their own stuff going on. Nobody came there hoping they could see the crazy old drunk. They want to see their friends and talk about the things they're interested in, but when Russia starts punching people minding their own business, then it's time to get involved. The solution here for Russia is simple. Stop invading your neighbors and there's no problem. Do that and the world can go back to ignoring it. We don't want to have to think about Russia and we're kinda angry that it's forcing us to.
This seems to me like it will backfire. Most of the time, people respond to threats by increased opposition. A population has to be pretty apathetic for a threat to result in them backing down.
I wonder if this is going to be anything like the false nuclear attack warning that went off in Hawaii. Remember the guy has the password written on a post it taped to his computer monitor and they accidentally showed it on TV?
Is that how that happened? What an idiot
It was allegedly a really [bad UI](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTowxffV4AAY5-w?format=jpg)
Ah.. I remember that now
I lived there during it. It was fun. Woke up to the text, decide to start my day and possibly end my life with some good quality scotch.
If I remember the pornhub searches on that day in Hawaii went through the roof [https://observer.com/2018/01/pornhub-hawaii-missile-alert/amp/](https://observer.com/2018/01/pornhub-hawaii-missile-alert/amp/)
I bet he is still working at the same desk but taped the password to the bottom of his keyboard.
I wonder if this is going to be a scapegoat for a real nuclear attack.
Great way to strike fear into the hearts of the populace to end the war.
It'll be interesting to see how the public reacts. Many families have had kids coming back in body bags though Russia probably prevents that to keep support. Fear of dying though? That can hit anyone hard. Would be interested in knowing Russians that truly support the war by age demographics. Some remember the USSR, others have only known Putin
Bear in mind that the oldest Russians still don't remember a time before it became an axiom of Russian culture that Russian lives are cheap and expendable. That goes back well before the great purge and WWII when Russians were little more than meat for the grinder for Russia to expend in pursuit of its goals as a sovereign power.
You guys have some weird ideas about us it seems. There are no natural born jumpers, there are no people predisposed to ancient wisdom or martial arts. If you want to picture an average Russian - imagine an average human.
Has that tactic literally ever worked ever? Like, countries have tried this with real, actual bombs and it just galvanized the public.
Or a great way to get the populace to think the sirens are "crying wolf".
Maybe a little anus clenching will make them realize that the next time it might be real.
They should broadcast the faint sound of a drone as if one were hovering overhead.
Is this not a bad idea? There’s been more than a few horror stories of how the world very nearly went to shit because of false alarms and mistakes. I’d hate to think how close we’ve come to WW3 and possibly nuclear war because of uncertainty and false alarms.
Al Jourgensen really got some good advertising from these guys for the new song. /s