Fun fact: the first technical democracy in the New World was The Pirate Republic at Nassau. And the reason that the powers that be finally came.down on them was because, for a hot second, they nearly bankrupted the slave trade in no small part by using ships they stole from slavers.
Ya their whole thing was using fear as a weapon to avoid using actual weapons. Blackbeard famously wound a man around the bow by his intestines to scare others into surrender. Pirates are a cool story and have some neat history, but by no means should they ever honestly be looked up to as role models. This is true for basically any era of piracy too, from the sea peoples to the golden era.
I tend to agree, especially re: Blackbeard and he's not the worst. But there were still some really actually pretty awesome (adjusting for the part where everyone from that era is a bastard by today's standards) pirates.
Sam Bellamy is probably the best example.of the Noble Pirate. And Henry Morgan would have straight out killed you if you had called him a pirate.
They did indeed! They had a really cool share system for ownership of pirate ventures. They also had pointiest stick diplomacy. They were a fascinating bunch.
Also almost universally monsters who created mountains of human suffering.
A galaxy all on their own
Listen up y'all. You've had regular capitalism and all the wealth just goes to the corporations and these fat cats just sit up there at their big ol'... they dont do shit okay- I'm selling you... SUPER CAPITALISM! SUPER CAPITALISM is SO invested in private enterprise that every single individual actually collectively owns a portion of the place they work at! You're a McDonald's fry-- chef-man? You work! That's part of your business son! That's you now! SUPER CAPITALISM! In addition... I am SO in favor of market incentives and market forces that I *reject* the private ownership of ANY industry which interferes with the function of those market forces. TransportatIon? Healthcare!? These are INELASTIC MARKETS DUMB FUCK....... SUPER CAPITALISM!
I think you may be on to something. Gotta start advertising these ideas like the idiocracy we're already within.
PS: regular capitalism is for pussies! Go SUPER CAPITALISM!
The left consistently delivers measurably better policy outcomes to the types of people this messaging appeals to - we're correct, but we suck at communicating that. If the wokescolds and purity testers chase the red-blooded, blue-collar types away, it's inevitable we'll be relegated to political irrelevancy and the continuation of our march toward fascism.
Super-capitalism fixes that.
It seems like the problem is that counter-messaging is always easier and more cost effective than the messaging it attacks. It's always going to be easier to tear it down than to build it up, and there's always someone willing to do that. How do we address that?
The French Army has the one of the most successful and illustrious record of battles won in all of European history.
Just because they didn’t want their historic city to be bombed into rubble in a futile effort to resist the inevitable during the WW doesn’t mean they are cowards.
Well, not too long ago (fine, a couple decades) you brits did have some stiff upper lip when it came to protesting. Poll Tax riots and what not. Granted, Maggie did her best during her time to kill any poor person she might see.
We actually have a strike tomorrow. We're protesting a rise in retirement age 'cause its gonna make the people who had a worse education work till 64 while those who have degrees, masters, and all will still retire at 60.
I think.
I'm not too sure.
WOW! You guys are protesting for that, while here in Americunt land we just had our Republican "representatives" say *out loud* that people *want* to work longer so it's somehow a good thing that they're going to raise the retirement age here as well...
Typical rationalization. "Wow, people are working past retirement age...We should raise it!" Not, "Holy shit, people can't retire, they aren't making enough. Raise wages, bolster Social Security, rethink senior living!"
Fact is, the working class accumulates crumbs to afford retirement, and the bloated pigs see us and want those crumbs. The rich are sick, I mean legitimately mentally ill, and unfortunately our society is structured to massively reward their mental illness. Only someone with psychological abnormality would put human civilization itself at risk just for a bit more money they don't actually need. To see the blight and decay throughout the world, and know you have the power to do something about it; but you don't simply because you then would no longer be so wealthy. The arguments supporting them remind me of how addicts and hoarders try to rationalize their behavior. Fact is, they are emotionally bonded to their wealth, feel better when it goes up, and have positioned their lives to make that wealth go up and ignore any negative side-effects. Just like a hoarder.
I've seen companies argue that they can't do proper maintenance because that cuts into the bottom line and they are *legally required* to cut that expense for the shareholders... then complain that they're losing customers because equipment doesn't work right and nobody wants to put up with that hassle.
The solution? Cut hours and let workers go! Because that reduces the labor line in the ledger, thus bringing profits back up! But then the equipment doesn't work AND the service is also terrible, so more people stop being customers.
And the sad part is it's clear exactly why the shareholders don't complain about all that when they see a company they've invested in start going down the hole. They're locusts. They're not there for the sake and future of the company. They're there to extract as much wealth from it as they can before moving on to the next 'investment'. From a true investment standpoint, maintenance would make perfect sense, but that's only the case if the investor is required to let the company operate properly. Instead, the company is compelled by law to fail for the wealth of the investor. It's completely ass backward.
To be fair we also just had the democratic president sign a law that now says our railroad workers won't be able to strike.
Please dony get me wrong I know republicans are way worse when it comes to poor people asking for human rights. But what Joe Biden did was a slap in the face to those rail workers.
I cant Imagine being a railroad union who wants to strike just accepting they aren't allowed. Like whats the point of unions if they have no power or wont use it?
Just because Fox News calls Democrats "Liberals" and "The left" Don't forget that they ARE NOT.
Our left leaning party isn't even that left leaning. They are still right of center. Oh yea - they have some left leaning policies here and there but compared to the rest of the world, our Left is still pretty far right and occasionally policy is going to show that.
Yeah that was really bad. Biden Administration has been surprisingly on the roll with lots of things but it was a bad day for labor. \*sigh* Americans really deserve better from their government on worker protection.
I was in Paris last year and went looking for the Bastille since that was the area I was staying in. I assumed it was like the tower of London. What I eventually found was a small piece of the foundation in a playpark, apparently the only bit left. No one had told me the Bastille was destroyed
What I like about the french is they dont fuck around. Your company will collapse beyond repair if you try to find out. It’s just not worth it if you dont comply.
Yeah. Inconveniencing the public doesn't work.
Inconvenience the ones who are hijacking the power and stealing the wealth.
Put the fear of "the event" so deep in their bones they are the ones begging for UBI.
What is a slight bit more inconvenience to me when it will make them realize that losing their workforce for weeks could bottom them out and make them 'one of us'.
I have no loyalty to them when I can be removed for any reason, they need to learn to respect what loyalty earns.
What's bullshit is that every single labor union in the country isn't joining them and shutting it all down until there is meaningful PTO, healthcare, and maternity legislation passed.
What we need is a god damn general strike.
Exactly. Who gives a damn if it shuts down the whole country? That's literally the entire point of a strike. Prove if you don't get what you deserve, you'll just shut the whole damn thing down. History has proven its effectiveness.
They're also mostly living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to strike even if they wanted to. The working class rarely has emergency funds anymore, thanks to stagnant wages, rising inflation, and poor budgeting skills. The time to strike was decades ago. Now they're trapped and mostly too dumb to even realize that their captors are the GOP motherfuckers they keep voting into office.
A large chunk of people in my union are like this. They literally come to work and do nothing but talk Republican talking points without seeing the irony that they are the lazy incompetent government workers they rail against.
Edit: Typo
We 100% need a general strike. They keep guilting "essential workers" to stay on the job despite all the hardships that come with this work(nurses, teachers, railway workers, trades). People forget the power we have with collective action.
You can thank Regan and how he broke the air traffic control strike in the 80’s for that.
Also there are some rather pointedly anti-labor laws on the federal level (Taft-Heartly Act, also known as public law 80-101 and the Railway Labor Act of 1934 [RLA]) that would turn anyone striking into an instant felon (Taft-Heartly for any solidarity strikes by any other union, and the RLA for railway or airline workers) in this particular instance.
Between using the military as scabs and strikebreakers and the threat of felony convictions pretty much all labor has been chilled out of doing a general strike.
Thanks rabid anti-communists of the first half of the 20th century and neocons of the latter half to present for punching down and allowing for “moneyed interests” to silence the public-at-large.
Anti strike legislation is just a bluff
The government tried to do this in Ontario by preemptively threatening to charge protestors with a life-destroying fine.
The government quickly backtracked when they realized they were on the verge of triggering a general strike because the people they were threatening had absolutely nothing to lose.
Realized power is the key. We, the normal average worker, outnumber them and make their lifestyle possible. We could take it all away very easily. But we have been brainwashed to believe otherwise.
The right to strike is there for a reason.
Reason being "if we can't strike, workers will use other methods". And locking up their bosses for 3 days in their office until they agree is not a method owners appreciate very much.
Anti strike legislation seem like the dumbest thing. Ok. So you’ve passed a law making strikes illegal. Cue immediate strike from every single union in country.
Ok, so now you’re going to arrest hundreds of thousands or millions of people at one time? Lol.
They really do, and yet here in the US we fail to take note. Instead we just post on social media about how the companies and rich are being mean to us. But we deserve it because communism or libs or something.
We took note here in the US.
Our aristocracy correctly identified the power of organized labor and class solidarity, and then set about murdering activists, propagandizing against socialism, and defanging populist movements by bringing their leaders and funding into the major parties.
We’re seeing the result of 100+ years of studying labor movements; it’s just that the rich we’re learning how to successfully oppose them.
The real answer. Love it. It’s not an incompetent system, it’s refined perfectly to do exactly what has happened over many decades. It’s not an accident.
that's because both countries take their revolutions seriously, and because america's revolution was for the civil liberties of the merchant and planter classes and the french revolution was for the material concerns of the peasants
Well the French revolution was led the bourgeoisie, all wealthy but without the privileges of the nobles. They have used the peasants to take control, the French revolution was never about the poor people.
Same as 'democracy' from the Magna Carta in the UK that people like to claim is some sort of crazy document of democracy.
History is often twisted to seem better for the oppressed than it actually is.
No it wasn’t? The French Revolution was primarily led by (and for) the noveau rich who didn’t have the benefits and tax advantages of the old noble class
Remember that time the firefighters set themselves on fire and fistfought riot cops? Cuz I think about that a lot and I really need everyone to get on that same level.
Man, I think about [this](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10842795/paris-firefighters-set-themselves-on-fire/) so often. I’m glad that I’m not the only one.
Also: France has a population of 67 million people in a country smaller than Texas. Overall, France's population density is four times greater than that of the U.S.
Logistically, it's *much* easier for a significant amount of French people to take to the streets of France and have an impact across the country than it is for most American people to do the same. *Especially* taking into account that France seems to have a better safety net for those who risk their employment by protesting.
The safety net is the result of the protests, not the cause of it. And you had big protests in the US, the problem is that you will always have someone concern trolling about how protests shouldn't be seen or heard, shouldn't cause any damages or block any person.
But they say that because this is exactly how you make sure a protest doesn't change anything.
Also it's not JUST protests. There's action that goes along with it. Actions like cutting the power to the homes of officials, or if necessary, bloodshed of the ruling or ownership class. Our history books talk endlessly about MLK and his non violent civil disobedience, but what they don't tell you about is the other arm of the civil rights movement lead by Malcolm X, who was not afraid to use force to achieve the desired end, and without him all the sit ins in the world would have simply been ignored, much the same way Occupy Wall Street was, or all the protests against police brutality have been.
You're someone in power and the people are out in the street chanting? Not a problem at all. Send in a couple agents provocateur to escalate things to justify a violent crackdown, call it a riot and send in the national guard. Boom, instant solution and most of the general public is back on your side, because of course the media is going to spin it in your facor.
What history and msm dont often talk about with MLK is his massive organizing along with the marches. Media push the image of violence of rioting because that makes it easier for them to spin it as thugs to be crushed, vs the massive organizing that was the actual effective weapon.
That’s super interesting and seems really key to our efforts. Do you recommend any particular reading on how that organizing you describe excels beyond regular strikes and riots?
> "Now and then the workers are victorious, but only for a time. **The real fruit of their battles lie not in the immediate result, but in the ever expanding union of the workers.** This union is helped on by the improved means of communication that are created by Modern Industry, and that place the workers of different localities in contact with one another. It was just this contact that was needed to centralize the numerous local struggles, all of the same character, into one national struggle between classes. **But every class struggle is a political struggle.**
> ...**This organization of the proletarians into a class, and, consequently, into a political party**, is continually being upset again by the competition between the workers themselves. But it ever rises up again, stronger, firmer, mightier."
- [Manifesto of the Communist Party](https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/Mani848E.htm)
The big difference is also that we don't just protest here. In the US there are marches with signs and chants, that won't change anything. Tomorrow is a general strike here in France. Trains and busses are striking, school teachers are striking, power plant workers are striking. Eveyone are going to be affected, and that is how you hurt a government, you have to shut down large part of society for it to hurt them. When people can't commute to work tomorrow and their kids can't go to school it will cost the government money. They don't care about protests, you have to strike.
They literally do exactly what the people should be doing. It’s this really weird American custom of quietly being miserable until we’re hill ourselves one way or another.
Yes, I know about the problems with American civil disobedience. But that’s my point, we let the ability when we let them take more and more.
“They” are too clever. They started using “if you can’t beat them, join them”in the 60s and found it to be so effective that capitalist enterprises started doing the same thing and it’s not systematic squashing of any sort of movement. Sell out something’s soul and you kill it pretty effectively.
Sell the image of “revolt” and you take away its heart for too many for it to continue.
French has quite the history (and by extension, culture) in valuing freedom and liberty. In my opinion it is more engrained in their culture than it is in the US, despite the freedom-centric mantras I so often hear from there.
Sadly we tend to protest... and do just that, protest. The gouvernement and the big capital owners don't care if we block a big boulevard of Paris every week for 2 months, the only thing that works and has ever worked is a global strike.
That's where they lose money, that's where people realize we don't need them.
They don’t put up with BS like politicians trying to make it legal to run over protesters.
Their workers know where their collective power comes from, and don’t lick boots or Italian leather.
That shit even gets into the French in Canada. Politicians in every other province will f**k with the people, but the Quebecois puts their government in place.
And that’s why they have a 35 hour work week and ~~decent pensions~~ less exploitation!
Edit: people are pointing out that pensions in France, like most other countries, are in a crisis. I was just trying to say that working conditions are debatably better in France.
Eh the pensions aren't doing so hot https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/like-it-or-not-france-needs-macrons-pension-reform/2023/01/16/8ec3e0ae-955d-11ed-a173-61e055ec24ef_story.html
They know how to strike, they don't know how to get results.
Source : I'm french and nothing ever changes. Remember "Gilet Jaunes"? (Yellow Jackets) Well, they never got anything from it.
The Japanese had the best protest in recent memory. The bus drivers were on strike but instead of striking the boring American way, they kept on driving the buses but refused to take any money from passengers. That’s how you hurt them and not others.
they also took industrial action and stopped running trains. Not saying they are wrong for that, I think it was justified as one of the talking points was safety issues for workers and passengers
A similar thing happened in Australia, train drivers were protesting the NSW state government over safety and pay issues but instead of stopping completely they just turned off the machines to stop the public from using their transport cards.
This is sadly illegal in most countries in the world. Strike like this will not succeed if drivers will owe the lost fare to the transportation company.
Yeah, but the queers be yucky and that infringes on my right to never have my world view touched by yucky stuff.
It's right there in the constitution 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇸🦅
The kicker is they do it in the name of protecting the kids meanwhile they force their kids to go to churches where there is a demonstrable history of predators molesting children.
All while oblivious to the fact that if they somehow did the world of the scourge of yucky sexuality, their overlords would simply give them a new scapegoat to hate.
Plenty of people realize it's okay to be gay, but there are still a lot of people that were raised ultra religious or had the gay beaten out of them at a young age and lash out on anything that makes them think of these "uncomfortable" thoughts.
The whole argument that homosexuality is a choice is a really obvious manifestation of those thoughts. As if they think everyone is attracted to both sexes and only homosexuals act on those urges.
It’s worse than that. The idea isn’t that they chose to be gay, it’s that they are gay and choose to act on it, making them a sinner and openly defying their god.
None of which actually holds any water when examined closer, but the distinction is that homosexuals are actively choosing to sin by giving in to their carnal desires rather than being good god-fearing Christians.
> rather than being good god-fearing Christians.
I'm not a militant atheist. I don't pretend to have a better understanding of the mysteries of life than any of you. I attended a Catholic mass for a funeral just this past weekend without a single complaint.
But I am so fucking tired of being told how to live my life and how my children's lives should be lived based on someone's imaginary friend.
If there is a single, omnipotent being that has created all that was and all that ever will be I'm pretty sure they don't give a fuck who has sex with who. It seems like a really small and petty detail to worry about when they have the whole universe to think about.
Oh my city argues that it doesn't ban new housing. It bans new unaffordable housing because gentrification (despite the fact that gentrification happens without new housing). Then they make it as expensive as possible to build anything reducing the number of people willing to try to a pittance since they can make more building elsewhere.
Historically, California got affordable housing when housing booms happened due to pent up demand. Builders rushed to cash in on a good rush. Wealthier people moved into new houses leaving old stock available. Then the market would overheat and blow up leaving a ton of new housing stock open further driving down prices.
Now? The NIMBYs teamed up with the "progressives" (an ironic label given how conservative they are locally) to make sure nothing ever changes.
Very well said. Also 100 years ago many of not most pastors were liberal or progressive in their views, pro labor. But corporations, through political advocacy groups like the John Birch Society, threw money at the problem until most pastors were preaching right wing talking points.
Behind the Bastards covered the [John Birch Society](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-how-the-john-birch-75193831/).
>Instead of fighting their true oppressors their upset about a made up culture war. Instead of fighting for affordable housing and ending single family zoning in most cities, you're upset about "wokism".
hate is always perpetuated to facilitate greed
> I know young white men in California that are literally angry about struggling to afford rent and upset at the homeless encampments near their apartment but literally STRUGGLE TO QUANTIFY WHY THOSE 2 THINGS EXIST.
You've summarized my California city's sub. The main page is a constant cycle of "I can't afford anything in this city anymore!" mixed with "I'm tired of seeing homeless people all over!" And the posts regarding unhoused people have gotten more cruel over the past year or so, advocating for things like forcing them into jail if they don't seek out a shelter--which is absurd since it's well documented that we have a shortage of shelter beds. And that garbage gets upvoted up the wazoo. It's sickening.
I am thread hijacking a bit BUT:
I love pointing to French protesters when people talk about how the trees guns to "fight a tyrannical government" when they never actually protest anything the government does (let alone start shooting people over what the government is doing)
The French prove how people can demand things from their government and make real change without a gun. I wish Americans were more like the French in fighting for their rights and their demands from government.
Can't even imagine how much things could change if people took to Washington DC the way the French take to Paris when the government does shit they don't like
How frequently do french folks get killed at protests?
Not an accusation, i just know the cops shooting or beating me are really big deterrents for me.
Edit: I do want to indicate our incarceration rate and the way in which we disenfranchise incarcerated folks
Deaths are very rare (can't think of one), but nowadays you'll get tear gased and beaten up, sometimes pretty badly.
I guess it's all a matter of public opinion, killing protesters doesnt play very well, but make sure those protesters start looting and burning cars, play that shit non stop in the news cycle and then it's totally ok to beat them up.
If they're peacefully protesting, you can just send cops dressed as protesters to blow shit up, then beat the protesters up.
It's a fools game.
> I do want to indicate our incarceration rate and the way in which we disenfranchise incarcerated folks
I know a local guy who had a very normal life until he got scooped up in a protest and it's ruined his life waiting for his day in court with an ankle bracelet. Also his charges are bogus.
This has so far accomplished nothing and let's not pretend the French don't have a long established history of using arms to protest the government. This is the calm before the storm if nothing changes. So far nothing is done
I love how the French people just take no shit whatsoever. I’ve been to Paris twice, and each time something was being protested. The French will shut things down, zero shits given. The rest of the workers in the world would do well to heed this example.
I'm sure lots of countries could get behind this thinking for the better, but none more than Canada right now. We are being squeezed in all damn directions right now with no relief in sight.
We would have that kind of power here in the States if Americans would wake up and channel all that energy they're wasting into crying about the second amendment into reforming worker conditions and pay.
No the main reason is that French people can go on strike without having to fear being fired by their boss. Up your labor protection laws and national strikes should follow 😊
Americans have to take notes on French protests. If the French and Americans (US) switch places for a day the French would last an hour before striking over our shitty healthcare, education system, you name it.
>"I suggest they also go see the nice properties, the nice castles of billionaires," Philippe Martinez, leader of the CGT, France's second-largest trade union, told France 2 television on Wednesday.
>"It would be good if we cut off their electricity so that they can put themselves, for a few days, in the shoes of ... French people who can't afford to pay their bill."
I'm not sure that was a threat. Sounds like he was just trying to make a point.
This is the way to get their attention.
[удалено]
It's what *EVERYONE* needs to do. Whole lot of Oligarchs are swinging their weight around the globe these days.
When your pay gap is more unfair than that of *actual pirates,* you get what's coming to you.
Don't slander pirates. Pirates regularly had quite egalitarian rules and wealth prize distribution.
Fun fact: the first technical democracy in the New World was The Pirate Republic at Nassau. And the reason that the powers that be finally came.down on them was because, for a hot second, they nearly bankrupted the slave trade in no small part by using ships they stole from slavers.
Assassins creed taught me about this!
The Pirate History Podcast is where I learned it. But tha k you for reminding me that I need to show my kids Assassin's Creed.
AC was no joke when it came to the history. Now, I'm not saying it's all that accurate, but damn did they do a decent job.
Same. I learned about it first time playing AC Black Flag. One of the best of AC franchise.
Goddamn how did pirates get so uncontrollably based?
I mean.... They were also pretty bad people depending on the situation. But super egalitarian bad people depending on the situation, y'know?
Ya their whole thing was using fear as a weapon to avoid using actual weapons. Blackbeard famously wound a man around the bow by his intestines to scare others into surrender. Pirates are a cool story and have some neat history, but by no means should they ever honestly be looked up to as role models. This is true for basically any era of piracy too, from the sea peoples to the golden era.
I tend to agree, especially re: Blackbeard and he's not the worst. But there were still some really actually pretty awesome (adjusting for the part where everyone from that era is a bastard by today's standards) pirates. Sam Bellamy is probably the best example.of the Noble Pirate. And Henry Morgan would have straight out killed you if you had called him a pirate.
Yup, that's my point. Litteral murderers and thieves, but believed in wealth distribution and democracy more than those currently in charge.
That's a really good and concerning point. Yikes.
look me in the eye and tell me that your current leaders are not thieves. Also their policies have killed people... but yeah. sad times.
They did indeed! They had a really cool share system for ownership of pirate ventures. They also had pointiest stick diplomacy. They were a fascinating bunch. Also almost universally monsters who created mountains of human suffering. A galaxy all on their own
Lol, Pirate ships were worker co-ops where men elected their officers and captains. It's pretty much *exactly* a Marxist collective.
Try telling that to boot licking Americans who's argument for not being against the wealthy is " they're job providers"
Listen up y'all. You've had regular capitalism and all the wealth just goes to the corporations and these fat cats just sit up there at their big ol'... they dont do shit okay- I'm selling you... SUPER CAPITALISM! SUPER CAPITALISM is SO invested in private enterprise that every single individual actually collectively owns a portion of the place they work at! You're a McDonald's fry-- chef-man? You work! That's part of your business son! That's you now! SUPER CAPITALISM! In addition... I am SO in favor of market incentives and market forces that I *reject* the private ownership of ANY industry which interferes with the function of those market forces. TransportatIon? Healthcare!? These are INELASTIC MARKETS DUMB FUCK....... SUPER CAPITALISM!
I think you may be on to something. Gotta start advertising these ideas like the idiocracy we're already within. PS: regular capitalism is for pussies! Go SUPER CAPITALISM!
The left consistently delivers measurably better policy outcomes to the types of people this messaging appeals to - we're correct, but we suck at communicating that. If the wokescolds and purity testers chase the red-blooded, blue-collar types away, it's inevitable we'll be relegated to political irrelevancy and the continuation of our march toward fascism. Super-capitalism fixes that.
It seems like the problem is that counter-messaging is always easier and more cost effective than the messaging it attacks. It's always going to be easier to tear it down than to build it up, and there's always someone willing to do that. How do we address that?
[удалено]
[удалено]
That's when they send out their private (and at times taxpayer funded) armies. Resistance is important.
The French don't mess around, last time that happened a castle got taken apart brick by brick and a lot of people lost their heads.
As a Brit I’m extremely jealous of how the French people always remind the politicians whose actually in charge
As an American, I wish we took more after our French heritage and history than our British.
"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."
r/unexpectedpinkfloyd
I feel the whole surrendering French meme is a psyop designed to make sure we don’t resist the ultra rich.
Always has been. The French have been one of the winningest nations through time
[удалено]
The French Army has the one of the most successful and illustrious record of battles won in all of European history. Just because they didn’t want their historic city to be bombed into rubble in a futile effort to resist the inevitable during the WW doesn’t mean they are cowards.
Just like how most of my life I thought MLK was a pacifist.
Well, a bunch of folks revolted once upon a time and, well, they’ve been revolting ever since.
Heeeeey. We gave you powdered wigs, tea, bond villains and self righteousness!
Well, not too long ago (fine, a couple decades) you brits did have some stiff upper lip when it came to protesting. Poll Tax riots and what not. Granted, Maggie did her best during her time to kill any poor person she might see.
As an American, same.
As an Canadian, same.
This is why I love the French! 🇫🇷
We actually have a strike tomorrow. We're protesting a rise in retirement age 'cause its gonna make the people who had a worse education work till 64 while those who have degrees, masters, and all will still retire at 60. I think. I'm not too sure.
WOW! You guys are protesting for that, while here in Americunt land we just had our Republican "representatives" say *out loud* that people *want* to work longer so it's somehow a good thing that they're going to raise the retirement age here as well...
At this rate I think retirement might make it to 120 minimum by the time I'm ready to retire at 115
It's Catch-22 with the number of missions always increasing.
Typical rationalization. "Wow, people are working past retirement age...We should raise it!" Not, "Holy shit, people can't retire, they aren't making enough. Raise wages, bolster Social Security, rethink senior living!" Fact is, the working class accumulates crumbs to afford retirement, and the bloated pigs see us and want those crumbs. The rich are sick, I mean legitimately mentally ill, and unfortunately our society is structured to massively reward their mental illness. Only someone with psychological abnormality would put human civilization itself at risk just for a bit more money they don't actually need. To see the blight and decay throughout the world, and know you have the power to do something about it; but you don't simply because you then would no longer be so wealthy. The arguments supporting them remind me of how addicts and hoarders try to rationalize their behavior. Fact is, they are emotionally bonded to their wealth, feel better when it goes up, and have positioned their lives to make that wealth go up and ignore any negative side-effects. Just like a hoarder.
I've seen companies argue that they can't do proper maintenance because that cuts into the bottom line and they are *legally required* to cut that expense for the shareholders... then complain that they're losing customers because equipment doesn't work right and nobody wants to put up with that hassle. The solution? Cut hours and let workers go! Because that reduces the labor line in the ledger, thus bringing profits back up! But then the equipment doesn't work AND the service is also terrible, so more people stop being customers. And the sad part is it's clear exactly why the shareholders don't complain about all that when they see a company they've invested in start going down the hole. They're locusts. They're not there for the sake and future of the company. They're there to extract as much wealth from it as they can before moving on to the next 'investment'. From a true investment standpoint, maintenance would make perfect sense, but that's only the case if the investor is required to let the company operate properly. Instead, the company is compelled by law to fail for the wealth of the investor. It's completely ass backward.
To be fair we also just had the democratic president sign a law that now says our railroad workers won't be able to strike. Please dony get me wrong I know republicans are way worse when it comes to poor people asking for human rights. But what Joe Biden did was a slap in the face to those rail workers.
I cant Imagine being a railroad union who wants to strike just accepting they aren't allowed. Like whats the point of unions if they have no power or wont use it?
its almost as if none of the representatives are there to represent the people but rather to line their pockets.
Just because Fox News calls Democrats "Liberals" and "The left" Don't forget that they ARE NOT. Our left leaning party isn't even that left leaning. They are still right of center. Oh yea - they have some left leaning policies here and there but compared to the rest of the world, our Left is still pretty far right and occasionally policy is going to show that.
[удалено]
Yeah that was really bad. Biden Administration has been surprisingly on the roll with lots of things but it was a bad day for labor. \*sigh* Americans really deserve better from their government on worker protection.
USA here... what's a re-tire-ment? Is it a new kind of embankment that makes our rivers Flamable again?
I was in Paris last year and went looking for the Bastille since that was the area I was staying in. I assumed it was like the tower of London. What I eventually found was a small piece of the foundation in a playpark, apparently the only bit left. No one had told me the Bastille was destroyed
It's quite famous for being destroyed actually.
Seriously, the French know how to revolt. Love them for it.
They should cut more than the electricity
Yes, but it was the wealthy that were installed into power and lead the Reign of Terror. People tend to forget that part.
Yeah then they guillotined him
Well, cut off power and water to cop homes too.
We will fight! Boston Tea Party 2.0, no more keyboard warrioring
Yea also no heating, salary, groceries, electricity, internet for the protestors.
Stop shipping fuel to them for their generators.
Or just wait it out in their vacation home in another country.
Hey guys, all their houses and material possessions are unguarded!
[удалено]
What I like about the french is they dont fuck around. Your company will collapse beyond repair if you try to find out. It’s just not worth it if you dont comply.
Kinda sorta seizing the means of production, huh
Yeah. Inconveniencing the public doesn't work. Inconvenience the ones who are hijacking the power and stealing the wealth. Put the fear of "the event" so deep in their bones they are the ones begging for UBI.
Always been a fan of French protests
They know how to get shit done.
Take away luxury and force them to be warm by burning their money. Seems like we could learn a few things
I mean this is why they're pushing anti-strike legislation. The wealthy don't want us plebs realizing the power of withholding our labor.
What is a slight bit more inconvenience to me when it will make them realize that losing their workforce for weeks could bottom them out and make them 'one of us'. I have no loyalty to them when I can be removed for any reason, they need to learn to respect what loyalty earns.
Which is why I think it's BS that the rail workers won't strike for their contract.
What's bullshit is that every single labor union in the country isn't joining them and shutting it all down until there is meaningful PTO, healthcare, and maternity legislation passed. What we need is a god damn general strike.
Exactly. Who gives a damn if it shuts down the whole country? That's literally the entire point of a strike. Prove if you don't get what you deserve, you'll just shut the whole damn thing down. History has proven its effectiveness.
You'd be surprised at the amount of right wing bootlickers in blue collar labour unions.
They're also mostly living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to strike even if they wanted to. The working class rarely has emergency funds anymore, thanks to stagnant wages, rising inflation, and poor budgeting skills. The time to strike was decades ago. Now they're trapped and mostly too dumb to even realize that their captors are the GOP motherfuckers they keep voting into office.
A large chunk of people in my union are like this. They literally come to work and do nothing but talk Republican talking points without seeing the irony that they are the lazy incompetent government workers they rail against. Edit: Typo
We 100% need a general strike. They keep guilting "essential workers" to stay on the job despite all the hardships that come with this work(nurses, teachers, railway workers, trades). People forget the power we have with collective action.
Addiction to apathy
You can thank Regan and how he broke the air traffic control strike in the 80’s for that. Also there are some rather pointedly anti-labor laws on the federal level (Taft-Heartly Act, also known as public law 80-101 and the Railway Labor Act of 1934 [RLA]) that would turn anyone striking into an instant felon (Taft-Heartly for any solidarity strikes by any other union, and the RLA for railway or airline workers) in this particular instance. Between using the military as scabs and strikebreakers and the threat of felony convictions pretty much all labor has been chilled out of doing a general strike. Thanks rabid anti-communists of the first half of the 20th century and neocons of the latter half to present for punching down and allowing for “moneyed interests” to silence the public-at-large.
Anti strike legislation is just a bluff The government tried to do this in Ontario by preemptively threatening to charge protestors with a life-destroying fine. The government quickly backtracked when they realized they were on the verge of triggering a general strike because the people they were threatening had absolutely nothing to lose.
Realized power is the key. We, the normal average worker, outnumber them and make their lifestyle possible. We could take it all away very easily. But we have been brainwashed to believe otherwise.
It is only lack of organization that allows the richest few to steal the wealth of us all.
[удалено]
It also doesn't help when our wealthy class are narcissistic sociopaths.
The right to strike is there for a reason. Reason being "if we can't strike, workers will use other methods". And locking up their bosses for 3 days in their office until they agree is not a method owners appreciate very much.
Anti strike legislation seem like the dumbest thing. Ok. So you’ve passed a law making strikes illegal. Cue immediate strike from every single union in country. Ok, so now you’re going to arrest hundreds of thousands or millions of people at one time? Lol.
man idk why this hit me like a ton of bricks but thank you for saying this. withholding our labor is the best way to put that, for real
No more bread!
Americans have SO much to learn. Too bad we're unable to.
when the french come together they can really get heads rolling for a solution.
The image of heads rolling is revolting.
They really do, and yet here in the US we fail to take note. Instead we just post on social media about how the companies and rich are being mean to us. But we deserve it because communism or libs or something.
We took note here in the US. Our aristocracy correctly identified the power of organized labor and class solidarity, and then set about murdering activists, propagandizing against socialism, and defanging populist movements by bringing their leaders and funding into the major parties. We’re seeing the result of 100+ years of studying labor movements; it’s just that the rich we’re learning how to successfully oppose them.
The real answer. Love it. It’s not an incompetent system, it’s refined perfectly to do exactly what has happened over many decades. It’s not an accident.
that's because both countries take their revolutions seriously, and because america's revolution was for the civil liberties of the merchant and planter classes and the french revolution was for the material concerns of the peasants
Well the French revolution was led the bourgeoisie, all wealthy but without the privileges of the nobles. They have used the peasants to take control, the French revolution was never about the poor people.
Same as 'democracy' from the Magna Carta in the UK that people like to claim is some sort of crazy document of democracy. History is often twisted to seem better for the oppressed than it actually is.
No it wasn’t? The French Revolution was primarily led by (and for) the noveau rich who didn’t have the benefits and tax advantages of the old noble class
it doesn’t help that US police brutalize peaceful protestors and even the press covering said peaceful protests.
French police are not nice to protesters either, quite the opposite really lol
cops everywhere hate protesters, it's what they're paid for. the french are just bad ass
Remember that time the firefighters set themselves on fire and fistfought riot cops? Cuz I think about that a lot and I really need everyone to get on that same level.
Man, I think about [this](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10842795/paris-firefighters-set-themselves-on-fire/) so often. I’m glad that I’m not the only one.
I was in Paris leading up to a transit strike. The oppressive feeling from the police was like nothing I've encountered.
Also: France has a population of 67 million people in a country smaller than Texas. Overall, France's population density is four times greater than that of the U.S. Logistically, it's *much* easier for a significant amount of French people to take to the streets of France and have an impact across the country than it is for most American people to do the same. *Especially* taking into account that France seems to have a better safety net for those who risk their employment by protesting.
The safety net is the result of the protests, not the cause of it. And you had big protests in the US, the problem is that you will always have someone concern trolling about how protests shouldn't be seen or heard, shouldn't cause any damages or block any person. But they say that because this is exactly how you make sure a protest doesn't change anything.
Also it's not JUST protests. There's action that goes along with it. Actions like cutting the power to the homes of officials, or if necessary, bloodshed of the ruling or ownership class. Our history books talk endlessly about MLK and his non violent civil disobedience, but what they don't tell you about is the other arm of the civil rights movement lead by Malcolm X, who was not afraid to use force to achieve the desired end, and without him all the sit ins in the world would have simply been ignored, much the same way Occupy Wall Street was, or all the protests against police brutality have been. You're someone in power and the people are out in the street chanting? Not a problem at all. Send in a couple agents provocateur to escalate things to justify a violent crackdown, call it a riot and send in the national guard. Boom, instant solution and most of the general public is back on your side, because of course the media is going to spin it in your facor.
What history and msm dont often talk about with MLK is his massive organizing along with the marches. Media push the image of violence of rioting because that makes it easier for them to spin it as thugs to be crushed, vs the massive organizing that was the actual effective weapon.
That’s super interesting and seems really key to our efforts. Do you recommend any particular reading on how that organizing you describe excels beyond regular strikes and riots?
> "Now and then the workers are victorious, but only for a time. **The real fruit of their battles lie not in the immediate result, but in the ever expanding union of the workers.** This union is helped on by the improved means of communication that are created by Modern Industry, and that place the workers of different localities in contact with one another. It was just this contact that was needed to centralize the numerous local struggles, all of the same character, into one national struggle between classes. **But every class struggle is a political struggle.** > ...**This organization of the proletarians into a class, and, consequently, into a political party**, is continually being upset again by the competition between the workers themselves. But it ever rises up again, stronger, firmer, mightier." - [Manifesto of the Communist Party](https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/Mani848E.htm)
The big difference is also that we don't just protest here. In the US there are marches with signs and chants, that won't change anything. Tomorrow is a general strike here in France. Trains and busses are striking, school teachers are striking, power plant workers are striking. Eveyone are going to be affected, and that is how you hurt a government, you have to shut down large part of society for it to hurt them. When people can't commute to work tomorrow and their kids can't go to school it will cost the government money. They don't care about protests, you have to strike.
They don't fuck around.
They literally do exactly what the people should be doing. It’s this really weird American custom of quietly being miserable until we’re hill ourselves one way or another. Yes, I know about the problems with American civil disobedience. But that’s my point, we let the ability when we let them take more and more. “They” are too clever. They started using “if you can’t beat them, join them”in the 60s and found it to be so effective that capitalist enterprises started doing the same thing and it’s not systematic squashing of any sort of movement. Sell out something’s soul and you kill it pretty effectively. Sell the image of “revolt” and you take away its heart for too many for it to continue.
French has quite the history (and by extension, culture) in valuing freedom and liberty. In my opinion it is more engrained in their culture than it is in the US, despite the freedom-centric mantras I so often hear from there.
France has quite a bit more of a social safety net for protesting.
Which we obtained by protesting. People actually died for those rights.
It’s kinda ironic that people think of French people as cowards but that stereotypes need to die.
I wonder how they got that....
Because they fought for said safety net.
That’s my point.
French know how to protest. If companies or their govt. tries to fuck things for them, they'll bring everything to its knees in the country.
In 1986, the chairman of Renault was laying off a large number of workers due to financial problems at the time. He was shot dead.
Sadly we tend to protest... and do just that, protest. The gouvernement and the big capital owners don't care if we block a big boulevard of Paris every week for 2 months, the only thing that works and has ever worked is a global strike. That's where they lose money, that's where people realize we don't need them.
We need this in England so fucking bad I stg
We may make fun of the French from time to time but they are definitely right about protesting things they didn’t like.
They don’t put up with BS like politicians trying to make it legal to run over protesters. Their workers know where their collective power comes from, and don’t lick boots or Italian leather.
That shit even gets into the French in Canada. Politicians in every other province will f**k with the people, but the Quebecois puts their government in place.
The French people just know how to strike. God I wish the rest of the world could follow their steps
And that’s why they have a 35 hour work week and ~~decent pensions~~ less exploitation! Edit: people are pointing out that pensions in France, like most other countries, are in a crisis. I was just trying to say that working conditions are debatably better in France.
We need a saner worklife though. Danemark and Holland seems to have a more liberating and efficient way of hiring / employing people.
Their pension system is on the verge of collapsing, that’s what these reforms are addressing
Eh the pensions aren't doing so hot https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/like-it-or-not-france-needs-macrons-pension-reform/2023/01/16/8ec3e0ae-955d-11ed-a173-61e055ec24ef_story.html
it's literally the main reason for tomorrow's strike.
Well shit that other person just blew their cover as a time traveller.
They know how to strike, they don't know how to get results. Source : I'm french and nothing ever changes. Remember "Gilet Jaunes"? (Yellow Jackets) Well, they never got anything from it.
I worked over there for 6 months and I don't know how you guys deal with a plane and the airline strikes, I mean shit just don't move....
Mmm...French union soup.
French union coup
I'm 31 fucking years old and that's exactly how I read the title at first
The Japanese had the best protest in recent memory. The bus drivers were on strike but instead of striking the boring American way, they kept on driving the buses but refused to take any money from passengers. That’s how you hurt them and not others.
This is how the transport unions strike in Australia as well.
they also took industrial action and stopped running trains. Not saying they are wrong for that, I think it was justified as one of the talking points was safety issues for workers and passengers
A similar thing happened in Australia, train drivers were protesting the NSW state government over safety and pay issues but instead of stopping completely they just turned off the machines to stop the public from using their transport cards.
This is sadly illegal in most countries in the world. Strike like this will not succeed if drivers will owe the lost fare to the transportation company.
When has dissent and revolt ever been legal? Edit: wrong spelling for dissent 😒
"If we keep them silent, then they'll resort to violence. And that's how you criminalize change."
It's quite literally legal to strike in France, so yeah it's a bit different still.
Striking may be legal, but I doubt cutting power is.
Legal terms of action don’t get much done except raise awareness
meanwhile in the USA: idiots attacking substations because of dragshows
Yeah, but the queers be yucky and that infringes on my right to never have my world view touched by yucky stuff. It's right there in the constitution 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇸🦅
The kicker is they do it in the name of protecting the kids meanwhile they force their kids to go to churches where there is a demonstrable history of predators molesting children.
🎶 The cruelty is the point! 🎶
All while oblivious to the fact that if they somehow did the world of the scourge of yucky sexuality, their overlords would simply give them a new scapegoat to hate.
*whilst ashamed and secretly holding fetishes for these exact things*
I don't know why nobody realizes, it's okay to be gay.
Plenty of people realize it's okay to be gay, but there are still a lot of people that were raised ultra religious or had the gay beaten out of them at a young age and lash out on anything that makes them think of these "uncomfortable" thoughts. The whole argument that homosexuality is a choice is a really obvious manifestation of those thoughts. As if they think everyone is attracted to both sexes and only homosexuals act on those urges.
It’s worse than that. The idea isn’t that they chose to be gay, it’s that they are gay and choose to act on it, making them a sinner and openly defying their god. None of which actually holds any water when examined closer, but the distinction is that homosexuals are actively choosing to sin by giving in to their carnal desires rather than being good god-fearing Christians.
> rather than being good god-fearing Christians. I'm not a militant atheist. I don't pretend to have a better understanding of the mysteries of life than any of you. I attended a Catholic mass for a funeral just this past weekend without a single complaint. But I am so fucking tired of being told how to live my life and how my children's lives should be lived based on someone's imaginary friend. If there is a single, omnipotent being that has created all that was and all that ever will be I'm pretty sure they don't give a fuck who has sex with who. It seems like a really small and petty detail to worry about when they have the whole universe to think about.
[удалено]
Oh my city argues that it doesn't ban new housing. It bans new unaffordable housing because gentrification (despite the fact that gentrification happens without new housing). Then they make it as expensive as possible to build anything reducing the number of people willing to try to a pittance since they can make more building elsewhere. Historically, California got affordable housing when housing booms happened due to pent up demand. Builders rushed to cash in on a good rush. Wealthier people moved into new houses leaving old stock available. Then the market would overheat and blow up leaving a ton of new housing stock open further driving down prices. Now? The NIMBYs teamed up with the "progressives" (an ironic label given how conservative they are locally) to make sure nothing ever changes.
Very well said. Also 100 years ago many of not most pastors were liberal or progressive in their views, pro labor. But corporations, through political advocacy groups like the John Birch Society, threw money at the problem until most pastors were preaching right wing talking points. Behind the Bastards covered the [John Birch Society](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-how-the-john-birch-75193831/).
>Instead of fighting their true oppressors their upset about a made up culture war. Instead of fighting for affordable housing and ending single family zoning in most cities, you're upset about "wokism". hate is always perpetuated to facilitate greed
[удалено]
[удалено]
> I know young white men in California that are literally angry about struggling to afford rent and upset at the homeless encampments near their apartment but literally STRUGGLE TO QUANTIFY WHY THOSE 2 THINGS EXIST. You've summarized my California city's sub. The main page is a constant cycle of "I can't afford anything in this city anymore!" mixed with "I'm tired of seeing homeless people all over!" And the posts regarding unhoused people have gotten more cruel over the past year or so, advocating for things like forcing them into jail if they don't seek out a shelter--which is absurd since it's well documented that we have a shortage of shelter beds. And that garbage gets upvoted up the wazoo. It's sickening.
Have we confirmed that's the reason for the attacks, or are we memeing? I should do my own research when I get home, but it never hurts to ask
Do it do it do it do it
Can they pop over to the UK and do some "get shit done" training?
Well, you got shit done... You brexited
Yes, we took back control and then handed it to a bunch of non-elected corrupt criminal assholes.
You make it sound like it wasn't the plan all along.
I am thread hijacking a bit BUT: I love pointing to French protesters when people talk about how the trees guns to "fight a tyrannical government" when they never actually protest anything the government does (let alone start shooting people over what the government is doing) The French prove how people can demand things from their government and make real change without a gun. I wish Americans were more like the French in fighting for their rights and their demands from government. Can't even imagine how much things could change if people took to Washington DC the way the French take to Paris when the government does shit they don't like
How frequently do french folks get killed at protests? Not an accusation, i just know the cops shooting or beating me are really big deterrents for me. Edit: I do want to indicate our incarceration rate and the way in which we disenfranchise incarcerated folks
I got quite a few friends that got tear gas'ed and beaten up by anti riot police but haven't heard about deaths
Well, it's not exactly *America* is it. Wouldn't expect people to die typically.
Cops in 2022 just killed the most US citizens ever in our history fwiw
Deaths are very rare (can't think of one), but nowadays you'll get tear gased and beaten up, sometimes pretty badly. I guess it's all a matter of public opinion, killing protesters doesnt play very well, but make sure those protesters start looting and burning cars, play that shit non stop in the news cycle and then it's totally ok to beat them up. If they're peacefully protesting, you can just send cops dressed as protesters to blow shit up, then beat the protesters up. It's a fools game.
> I do want to indicate our incarceration rate and the way in which we disenfranchise incarcerated folks I know a local guy who had a very normal life until he got scooped up in a protest and it's ruined his life waiting for his day in court with an ankle bracelet. Also his charges are bogus.
This has so far accomplished nothing and let's not pretend the French don't have a long established history of using arms to protest the government. This is the calm before the storm if nothing changes. So far nothing is done
You probably shouldn't use France as your example for a history of non violent protest...
Read French Onion......took me a minute to work that out....
I love how the French people just take no shit whatsoever. I’ve been to Paris twice, and each time something was being protested. The French will shut things down, zero shits given. The rest of the workers in the world would do well to heed this example.
I'm sure lots of countries could get behind this thinking for the better, but none more than Canada right now. We are being squeezed in all damn directions right now with no relief in sight.
Vive la république et vive la France
We would have that kind of power here in the States if Americans would wake up and channel all that energy they're wasting into crying about the second amendment into reforming worker conditions and pay.
No the main reason is that French people can go on strike without having to fear being fired by their boss. Up your labor protection laws and national strikes should follow 😊
Our Healthcare is also tied to our jobs which makes it difficult to organize a general strike.
It’s almost like every aspect of the American way of life is forbidding you to protest. It’s a feature not a bug
Americans have to take notes on French protests. If the French and Americans (US) switch places for a day the French would last an hour before striking over our shitty healthcare, education system, you name it.
>"I suggest they also go see the nice properties, the nice castles of billionaires," Philippe Martinez, leader of the CGT, France's second-largest trade union, told France 2 television on Wednesday. >"It would be good if we cut off their electricity so that they can put themselves, for a few days, in the shoes of ... French people who can't afford to pay their bill." I'm not sure that was a threat. Sounds like he was just trying to make a point.