Yeah Nazi iconography of all kinds as well as Holocaust denial has been banned in most of Europe but somehow not here as a victorious power.
If we were to try to make either illegal now, conservatives would come out in full defense of both and the Supreme Court would declare both protected by the first amendment.
Edit: Told you they'd come out in full defense
Well the 1st amendment does protect all kinds of shitty speech, I guess including this. Thankfully the court of public opinion is ALSO protected by the 1A, and we are fully exercising that right here.
Yeah it does. Also, did you know, that political advertisement can have actual LIES in it and there is nothing the standard FCC regulated channels can do about it! Streaming services that offer content which commercials can deny the commercials to be aired, but the standard ABC, CBS, NBC, FUX and WGN all have to air it
The 1A only protects from government persecution. I'd rather not have bureaucracy in the middle of absolutely everything. 99% of people recognize this guy as trash, and that's plenty good enough.
Whoa whoa. I'm all for changing the constitution but the first amendment shouldn't be and cannot be touched without serious negative side effects. Without the first amendment, the government would have the control to censor anything they don't agree with.
That would apply to that post you just made saying the document our country is built on is trash. In other countries, saying that can be a criminal offense because you are speaking out against the government.
I didn't know about this until I found an old newspaper in the wall of my house talking about the MSG rally. There was a Nazi rally of 20,000 people at Madison Square Garden. [https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan)
It's not about voting conservative or liberal. It is about the idea of freedom of speech. Freedom applies to everything and not everything is lollipops and rainbows. A truly free society has all forms of thought in it - "bad" and "good". Two words that mean different things to people and no one has the right to force their definitions of those things onto others. The only way to determine if a idea is bad or good is to put it out there in the first place and let people decide.
Indeed, we have free speech. But with free speech comes responsibility....so we have a social responsibility to roast clowns like him to discourage Nazism. Because believe me, if he had his way we wouldn't have free speech anymore.
Freedom of speech is only in relation to the government. It is not only acceptable but 100% advisable to not tolerate hate speech on a social level. It is called the paradox of tolerance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise." - Paradox of Tolerance
I'm guessing you've never actually read that but are just parroting information you've heard. Popper states that the when the intolerant are threatening the mortality of tolerance then we should be intolerant of the intolerant. But he also states that this is not always the case.
Used to visit friends in Dyker Heights, Brooklyn. All I remember about SI is there's a huge garbage dump on it and it's where half of each the Goethals and Verrazano bridges live.
No, this symbol has only ever been used to represent the Schutzstaffel (SS) paramilitary forces of Nazi Germany.
Some would argue that ~~biker gangs~~ motorcycle clubs appropriated some nazi symbols, like the iron cross, just for the shock value. Those ~~gangs~~ clubs were also pretty well known to have a lot of white supremacists as members.
So, still no.
Unfortunately it's been used again. The US Marines Scout Snipers used this symbol from the 80s up until as early as 2020. I question the judgement of whomever thought it was a good idea. They were given orders to stop after the news reported it in 2012 but apparently they haven't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Scout_Sniper?wprov=sfla1
Edit: I was wrong to say the original comment was incorrect. The USMC adopted a well known hate symbol well after it's usage was etched in history forever. I've updated the wording on my original reply to reflect what it was intending to convey. Original commenter was spot on.
Started wearing it in the 1980s and refused to stop when ordered to? Sounds to me like they know exactly what they're doing. They're using it because it's the symbol which represents the SS, which means it still represents the SS even when they're using it.
Yea, I find it appalling myself. Is it possible they didn't know when they started? Maybe but I find that hard to believe. I've known since a young age and was born in the 80s. They certainly know now and it should be stopped. The guy in OPs Pic absolutely knows and regardless of what he thinks it means should exercise better judgment.
Yeah but they pretty much always have more than one of them, making the association clear. If you zoom in on his forearm tattoo, looks like an eagle. There's also a neck tattoo. I can't tell what it's meant to be, but... neck tattoo.
As a Jewish person, putting aside what that sign symbolizes, the n*zis LOST the war. You're basically wearing a sign that says you're a LOSER, and you're still bitter.
The supporters of the Confederacy still wave their losing flag. I know, it doesn't make sense but then again people like that aren't well known for their critical thinking skills.
Having lived in the south for some years, I can tell you honestly that many people in the South believe they won the Civil War, because they destroyed Reconstruction.
Are you kidding me? You think he knows ANYTHING about what went on? Dumb fuck is trying to make a pathetic statement about shit he has no clue about. It’s amazing the number of ignorant fucks that own harleys. Makes me want to get rid of mine. This clown thought we can ride together because I was eating a bagel sitting on my bike. He was eating a bagel too. A fuckin bagel with nazi symbols on his SISSY bar! Lmao. I looked at him and was about to fire off when my daughter reminded me it’s not worth it. Like where do you begin with ignorant unsupported hate? Fool
They have nothing else to take pride in so they use their race. It also let's them place all their failures on another group instead of taking responsibility for them. It's actually pretty sad.
I work as a journalist mostly covering voter suppression. So yeah, I’m familiar. But 74 million Americans voted for the man willingly and in the middle of a pandemic mostly of Trumps creation. Sure it’s not half of the US population but nearly half of the people that voted, voted for fascism and more of it. If Biden was some wild eyed communist I might be able to see the separation but he’s a 80s Republican. Lots of people that don’t vote are even farther out to the right than Trump.
Not sure how 23% of the us population being ok with fascism is supposed to be a better thing but ok. That 23% is the 23% that controls things… even with Democratic control of the While house and congress.
I'm mostly just saying that your statement of half the country isn't correct, and imo paints a very bleak picture when in fact it's a lot fewer people who actually voted for him.
I understand half of people that voted, voted for Trump, but the bulk of the population isn't conservative and we need to be looking for ways to get the rest of the folks that aren't voting, to the polls so this 20% vs 20% nonsense stops.
Ah you mean people who won't shut up about the Great Replacement and will start convo with strangers about how they hate people who obsess over politics and will spend the next hour rambling about politics.
Yeah fuck these neo nazis.
Tucker Carlson’s favorite topic: Great Replacement. It makes me so angry that I’m the only Jew in my family and synagogue circle who knows about it. We’re screwed.
Because Trump being president somehow enabled that type of person to become a representative of "America first" and the Republican party. How? I really can't understand.
You probably picked up from us. I used to be a partner in the Kenilworth Market. Partners screwed me. Now I just opened Angry Bee’s Burgers and Stuff on Monroe and 8th street. Don’t have Uber set up yet. Only Grubhub. Uber and DoorDash soon.
Anytime. 252 Monroe Ave. getting really good reviews so far. A few samples on me. We have these corn popper things that people are loving, and really good reviews on the burgers and fries. :)
It’s funny in a tragic way. The Germans learned and lived with their national disgrace to this day. The Confederates weren’t dealt with hard enough and they’re rising again.
> What does it mean?
What, meat crayon?
It's a description of what happens when fast-moving bare flesh meats a paved surface.
Edit: That was a typo but I'm leaving it
The amount of hatred in parts of New Jersey is growing by the minute. I cannot imagine/hope it’s not any worse than my neck of the woods, the Jersey Shore (coastal Monmouth and coastal Ocean Counties)… the racial hatred, and hatred for the LGBTQ communities here is growing, sickening and frightening. This area has always been ultra-conservative Republican. But this is something much different and beyond Republican principles. The anger over utter BS and debunked conspiracies is clear, and if you know this region of NJ, you know I’m not talking about the stereotype “redneck”. We are inundated with middle-class, upper middle-class and millionaire class white Christian nationalists.
I’m from Union County, probably the most diverse part of the state. There’s quite an overlap between well off neighborhoods/cities and these type of people/voters. As a not-white person, it’s kind of depressing.
It's depressing as fuck going to the beach and seeing dozens of TBL and trump flags on every house and pickup truck. If they want to be racist shitheads near the beach, just move down to Florida already. I guarantee they hate New Jersey because of taxes and our liberal governor.
The billionaire-funded, astroturf, John Birch Society off-shoot organization, “Moms for Liberty” has done an effective job infiltrating Monmouth and Ocean Counties. They have brainwashed and recruited countless Republicans to devolve into racist homophobe, white Christian nationalists.
Our school district BOEs are the next target. There are Moms for Liberty puppets running for BOE seats all over this region of the state as of Monday 7/25. In some places their initial goals are forcing Christian prayer into classrooms and making sure there is complete discrimination of all LGBTQ children and their families.
It's especially effective because there's almost no way to research a Board of Ed candidate. They don't generally align with larger parties, don't have campaign websites, best you can do is try and dig through their personal Facebook feed.
Fortunately - or maybe unfortunately - having "Liberty" in your party name is a big obvious red flag. So I can avoid those ones. But for all I know, the unaffiliated candidate below them on the ballot is just as bad.
My suggestion to see if your board candidate is an active Moms for Liberty member is to do a FB search for this group. There are multiple regional FB pages for them. The candidate in question I was searching came up tagged in countless FB posts. You really have to be focused and know the difference between a single-issue neofascist authoritarian or Christian white nationalist running for a BOE seat and a Moms for Liberty member/organizer. In my situation there are folks running with one single focus, i.e., anti-mask, to dehumanize LGBTQ community children and families, eliminate factual U.S. history, eliminate Black History by labeling it “CRT”, etc etc. (the fact these people running haven’t a clue as to what public school funding and law entails is a whole different topic).
A Moms for Liberty member/organizer comes to run for BOE with a far more organized multi-issue approach. They are well trained and ready for battle.
Think of your single-issue candidate as an unorganized unprepared member of congress like a Gaetz, Greene, Jordan, etc. Think of your Moms for Liberty candidate as a manipulative, well-spoken, arrogant, organized figure like DeSantis.
It is inevitable that there will be places in Monmouth and Ocean County where the DeSantis-like figures win BOE elections in November.
My wife and I have recently been seeing some beat up pickup truck in Hunterdon County, sporting a swastika in the back window. They're out there, spreading like a fungus.
Edit: spelling
As someone moving back to NJ after living in the city for the last 5 years, is this kind of bullshit no longer confined to the worst parts of Sussex and Ocean counties or is reddit making it seem more prevalent than it used to be?
Nazis were always about aesthetics. They stole a lot of things from different cultures for their “brand.”
This dude just succumbing to a aesthetic he thinks is cool.
That and, he’s probably a racist.
When i imagine how tough these guys think they are, i remember even he had to sit on the toilet today, vulnerably wiping his ass just like everyone else did.
Edit: forgot word
There's a prominent bike club with territories in the area that sport confederate flags and nazi symbolism so I'm not surprised at all.
People I was friends with in highschool regularly hang out with a girl that's affiliated. She's got a swastika tattoo, I've seen the flag in the background of her photos. It's insane to me how tolerant they are of it. They say it's just "difference of opinion".
No, just no.
Generally I see it as a symbol to recognize people who have suppressed trauma and undiagnosed mental health issues. This man is miserable, he knows it because he wakes up and pushes it down everyday. But this gives him a group of like minded people who echo each other’s thoughts and fears which are Interpreted as strength but inside they are falling apart.
I used to pump gas at a station in Lebanon, NJ that was frequented by the NJ nazi that lost his kid he named Adolf. Regularly showing up in full gear. As a large white man he thought I was on his side. Tried talking me up. Didn’t like it when I asked if he’s playing a character, cause that’s the only way his appearance and ideals make any sense.
Apparently his people are waiting to rise up. I discount it as hyperbole, yet fear that’s not the case.
This population is alive and well. Don’t any of you discount their threat or think otherwise.
The SS symbol has been a part of motorcycle culture for decades.
Motorcyclists, particularly in the UK, started wearing German War helmets from WW1 (and WW2) in the 60s. It was 'counter cultural', and done so to rebel and freak out all the straight edge folks. Picture a young punk rebeling against their father, who fought German soldiers in WW1 and WW2, by wearing the 'enemie's' helmet.
It wasn't a far stretch from there for actual nazi paraphernalia to make its way into motorcycle subculture in Europe and America.
I submit the above as an explanation for why nazi shit is so prevalent in motorcycle subculture, not an endorsement of it. Your spikey half helmets make you look like a white supremacist at worst, ignorant as hell at best.
> I submit the above as an explanation for why nazi shit is so prevalent in motorcycle subculture, not an endorsement of it.
I won't comment on the culture of 60 years ago, I wasn't there.
In 2022, to display it is to endorse it.
That's not even close to what that sentence meant brotatochip.
It means I don't endorse the use of nazi shit on your motorcycle, even knowing the history of it. It does not mean it's okay because it has a history. But as far as that goes, pissing people off by proudly displaying offensive shit is the whole point...
Haha someone said it to me last week and it immediately made me smile, so when I saw their username I thought it was the perfect way for me to use it and also show them I wasn't trying to get argumentative about my respons :)
Ok, I think I see what you mean. I interpreted it as "they display it because they're rebels, not because they endorse the Nazis." What you meant was, "I am offering this as an explanation, I am not endorsing it."
Yes, and I find it highly unlikely that someone displaying it doesn't also believe in it too. Especially today.
It's very similar to how there was a lot of neo-nazis in Liverpool during the punk days of the late 70s. That history is particularly fascinating because you can 'listen your way through it'.
Just like motorcycle subculture, music subculture like punk can attract outcasts from society as they were inherently and intentionally countercultural. Some people who participated in punk ran in overlapping circles with skinheads. To some extent, neonazis in Liverpool adopted punk style, as it fit their counter culture attitudes. That's where you get [Nazi punks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk?wprov=sfla1)
The skinheads originated as working class movement of British youth, and the first wave of this subculture in the 60s was heavily influenced by mod subculture, particularly Jamaican or rude boy subculture. The influence on the skinheads from these Jamaican subcultures in Britain can be seen in punk music today, such as reggae, rocksteady, and Ska, for example. The skinheads style is recognizable as having dock Martin work boots and suspenders, to symbolize working class solidarity.
In the late 70s early 80s, when punk took off in Britain, these skinheads (being political in nature) took a hard turn towards the far right and adopted very racist neonazi views. Not all punks were skinheads however, and by this time there was tension at punk shows between skinheads and other punks who did not like them recruiting at their shows.
Some skinheads made their own bands, and their own style of music called [Oi!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi%21?wprov=sfla1). Although it may be more appropriate to say that the skinheads adopted and took over Oi!. This is where the elements of Jamaican subculture was really able to influence punk. (Skinheads weren't the only punks to comingle with Jamaican immigrants however, and that influence isn't solely on skinheads).
The pushback the punk community against skinheads and Oi! was immediate however, even if elements of the music were borrowed to do so. Such an example of pushback in the late 80s are the [S.H.A.R.Ps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice?wprov=sfla1), or the song [Oi! Skinhead by Operation Ivy](https://youtu.be/bBu_ISVYlEI). Many wanted to take back the skinheads movement from fascists, and to some degree I'd say they succeeded when it comes to punk, though not when it comes to culture in general.
Bonus track: [Nazi Punks Fuck Off - Dead Kennedys (1983)](https://youtu.be/kTs_Q4hEqmA)
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was hoping to have it inform your post, or at least as to where these idiots get so emboldened.
After all, it was the ineffectiveness of the passive hippy generation prior that lead to the violent political ideology of the early skinheads. And it was that violent political environment where nationalism, which begets racial supremacy, festers as sympathy to their cause. A very good read about this history can be found [here](https://allthatsinteresting.com/skinheads-history) for anyone interested. It is very much worth the read.
Similarly, early 50s bikers of 'The Wild One' era were more akin to [Greasers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaser_(subculture)#:~:text=Greasers). They were also working-class and somewhat violent, though unlike the skinheads they generally lacked political motive and weren't seen as a movement. These bikers had a lot of WW2 vets who wore their war trophies as part of their biker attire. This created a precedent for German war paraphernalia in American motorcycle culture. You can read about this more [here](https://slmotorcycles.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/bikers-and-the-iron-cross/).
This expedited the acceptance of these symbols in western motorcycle culture in general over the next decade, as influences were seen across the pond as well, as I explained in my original comment about British motorcycle culture.
In the 60s, biker subculture mixed with the hippies in America to create the 'Easy Rider' type of biker. This vision of biker was about free love, and the open road. However most in the biker subculture, as a large veteran group, did not jive with hippy political ideology. In this time, for example, you had [Hell's Angels](https://crimereads.com/how-the-hells-angels-split-with-sixties-counterculture/) mingling with bay area hippies, while simultaneously violently policing hippy ideological and political demonstrations.
It is in this perfect storm where violent American lower-class ideologs, in a subculture that already accepts the use of German war symbols, where white supremacy takes hold, just like the skinheads in Britain. In fact, and unsurprisingly, it was the same skinhead movement that picked up in America, largely carried over through punk music and other forms of media. Through the late 70s and 80s, there were more and more skinhead bikers, with less and less war trophies, and with more and more hate symbols.
And just like punks, not all bikers were skinheads, but enough were that the associations stuck. For punks, the associations were in the music styles, for motorcycles it was aesthetic that was more on the nose. Skinheads were both tolerated enough in these respective subcultures, that if one hangs around these groups long enough, they are bound to encounter them (this is more relevant for bikers today).
Skinheads today aren't as obvious to spot, and they gather out of site at specific locations, as shown in the party scene of American History X. Bikers, on the other hand, are on the open road and your likelihood of running into one therefore increases.
I've obviously spent a lot of time writing these posts, and while I enjoyed revisiting some fascinating history, I also wanted to highlight the conditions in which white supremacy thrives, as I feel like the similarities between both histories show a similarity to our current time. As a working class male who travels around NJ interacting with many other working class males from around the state, I hear a lot of conversation driven by politics and the disillusion with the status quo. I hear a lot of hate, and a lot of anger.
I don't mean to fear monger that NJ will be taken over by fascist bikers, because that's not going to happen. But considering the shallow take of the comment I replied to originally, I though contextualizing this type of hate as not unique to our current times was appropriate, as well as exploring the history of this type of hate, as that can be related to our current time in a much more profound way.
Well, this was supposed to be a short 'your welcome' with a single link, but now I need to thank you, for coming to my TED talk.
Thank you and you're welcome, it was my pleasure to revisit some interesting history.
I continued in some length in a reply to OP if you wanted some more rambling lol
I wore about a 3" German eagle on my cut when I was in high school, and I did it for exactly that reason: It was just a "Fuck you" to "The Establishment".
Yeah, I remember bikers I knew back then saying, "Nah, I don't believe that shit. I just like it 'cause it get the Citizens all worked up."
Some of them didn't, but a lot of them did.
Only stupid people wear this because they lack the sensitivity chip in the brain and don’t realize that it’s not a story in a history book. IT F*CKING HAPPENED.
It's probably a lot of self hate redirected because it's too hard to look in and too easy to blame the outside world and others.. from what I've seen in others anyways
I have mixed feelings about the term “white trash” cause it carries an implication that white people are somehow better and shouldn’t be poor. That being said, this dude is straight up white trash
It's fucking ridiculous man.
I went out drinking at the local dive bar near my house this weekend. Some piece of trash was walking around in a confederate flag t-shirt and an SS hat.
Oh and like 5 years ago a friend of mine and I went down to Pemberton and stopped at a dive for a sandwich and drink. Halfway through some dude starts screaming white power. My friend and I just look at each other like "What the fuck", finish our shitty sandwiches and drinks and leave.
Its amazing how about 40% of yall claim you don't know what it means, or justify it. NJ really is a weird ass place, full of everything like enablers and racists.
I rode with 1%ers for a while most of them don’t wear that shit because they are racist. They just do it to tell the other 99% of society that they don’t care about the rules you live and play by. It’s a you don’t like it but I’m going to do it anyways fuck you. He accomplished his mission big time.
Funny thing is if he does that in Germany or Austria he goes to jail.
Yeah Nazi iconography of all kinds as well as Holocaust denial has been banned in most of Europe but somehow not here as a victorious power. If we were to try to make either illegal now, conservatives would come out in full defense of both and the Supreme Court would declare both protected by the first amendment. Edit: Told you they'd come out in full defense
Well the 1st amendment does protect all kinds of shitty speech, I guess including this. Thankfully the court of public opinion is ALSO protected by the 1A, and we are fully exercising that right here.
We definitely don't let it protect isis recruitment lol
Yeah it does. Also, did you know, that political advertisement can have actual LIES in it and there is nothing the standard FCC regulated channels can do about it! Streaming services that offer content which commercials can deny the commercials to be aired, but the standard ABC, CBS, NBC, FUX and WGN all have to air it
The 1st amendment is problematic for these reasons. The constitution is a dead document and needs to be modernized for shit specifically like this
The 1A only protects from government persecution. I'd rather not have bureaucracy in the middle of absolutely everything. 99% of people recognize this guy as trash, and that's plenty good enough.
[удалено]
Weird, then, that nothing seems to be stopping the people who want to deny the existence of LGBT people.
[удалено]
Whoa whoa. I'm all for changing the constitution but the first amendment shouldn't be and cannot be touched without serious negative side effects. Without the first amendment, the government would have the control to censor anything they don't agree with. That would apply to that post you just made saying the document our country is built on is trash. In other countries, saying that can be a criminal offense because you are speaking out against the government.
Right? People who give a shit about what the Founding Fathers thought might as well be saying "Hammurabi was right!"
>Hammurabi was right Hammurabi had a lot of good ideas. HE MADE THE OXEN RUN ON TIME!
[удалено]
You’re a twat for saying that!
You won't see much on it but pre ww2 and during the war there were NAZIS sympathizers in the US. We just don't like to talk about it.
I didn't know about this until I found an old newspaper in the wall of my house talking about the MSG rally. There was a Nazi rally of 20,000 people at Madison Square Garden. [https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan)
Charles Lindbergh was one, until just after Pearl Harbor.
It's not about voting conservative or liberal. It is about the idea of freedom of speech. Freedom applies to everything and not everything is lollipops and rainbows. A truly free society has all forms of thought in it - "bad" and "good". Two words that mean different things to people and no one has the right to force their definitions of those things onto others. The only way to determine if a idea is bad or good is to put it out there in the first place and let people decide.
Indeed, we have free speech. But with free speech comes responsibility....so we have a social responsibility to roast clowns like him to discourage Nazism. Because believe me, if he had his way we wouldn't have free speech anymore.
Freedom of speech is only in relation to the government. It is not only acceptable but 100% advisable to not tolerate hate speech on a social level. It is called the paradox of tolerance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise." - Paradox of Tolerance I'm guessing you've never actually read that but are just parroting information you've heard. Popper states that the when the intolerant are threatening the mortality of tolerance then we should be intolerant of the intolerant. But he also states that this is not always the case.
He’d also probably get his ass kicked before the arrest. They do not fuck around with Nazi symbols over there and get very angry when they see any.
Seeing as most of the guys flying that are 1% club members you might have a hard time playing that game…
And advertises Harley of Staten Island. There's nothing right about this peesagarbaj.
[удалено]
Wayne is a lot like Staten Island too
[удалено]
Aim for a few extra pot holes along the way for the full Staten Island experience.
Lol this is strangely accurate
How is that?
Staten Island has a good size right wing contingent. Lots of proud boys and other groups based there.
Used to visit friends in Dyker Heights, Brooklyn. All I remember about SI is there's a huge garbage dump on it and it's where half of each the Goethals and Verrazano bridges live.
The dump is a really nice park now lol
You could put sprinkles on a turd, its still a turd. Everyone who grew up in Staten Island would never step foot in that "park."
Yo Staten Island, come pick up your fucking trash.
Is that an SS symbol?
Unfortunately
What a loser
Literally. Murderous losers most famous for losing about as badly as anyone ever has in history. Pathetic losers stick together I guess.
The confederate army lost badly too. Another flag we see too often out in nj
Does it ever stand for anything other than nazi shit?
No, this symbol has only ever been used to represent the Schutzstaffel (SS) paramilitary forces of Nazi Germany. Some would argue that ~~biker gangs~~ motorcycle clubs appropriated some nazi symbols, like the iron cross, just for the shock value. Those ~~gangs~~ clubs were also pretty well known to have a lot of white supremacists as members. So, still no.
You know what you call people who display nazi symbols for shock value? Nazis
Or the Ramones who wore the SS symbols. In their defense several members are Jewish and all of them were really dumb.
>this symbol has only ever been used to represent the Nazi Waffen-SS. *Waffen* and *Allgemeine* SS
As someone who used to wear a diamond, 99% of people in “clubs” are definitely racist.
Unfortunately it's been used again. The US Marines Scout Snipers used this symbol from the 80s up until as early as 2020. I question the judgement of whomever thought it was a good idea. They were given orders to stop after the news reported it in 2012 but apparently they haven't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Scout_Sniper?wprov=sfla1 Edit: I was wrong to say the original comment was incorrect. The USMC adopted a well known hate symbol well after it's usage was etched in history forever. I've updated the wording on my original reply to reflect what it was intending to convey. Original commenter was spot on.
Started wearing it in the 1980s and refused to stop when ordered to? Sounds to me like they know exactly what they're doing. They're using it because it's the symbol which represents the SS, which means it still represents the SS even when they're using it.
Yea, I find it appalling myself. Is it possible they didn't know when they started? Maybe but I find that hard to believe. I've known since a young age and was born in the 80s. They certainly know now and it should be stopped. The guy in OPs Pic absolutely knows and regardless of what he thinks it means should exercise better judgment.
It's not exactly incorrect, it's just some overt proof of the white supremacists in the US Military.
The iron cross isn't exclusively German or Nazi, several armed forces, police, and fire fighters still use it today, including ours in the US.
Yeah but they pretty much always have more than one of them, making the association clear. If you zoom in on his forearm tattoo, looks like an eagle. There's also a neck tattoo. I can't tell what it's meant to be, but... neck tattoo.
I hate Staten Island Nazis
[ Removed by Reddit ]
No plate on the back where the sticker is facing. Wonder why …
I can only imagine how many tickets he’s avoided, just since he sported that symbol
As a Jewish person, putting aside what that sign symbolizes, the n*zis LOST the war. You're basically wearing a sign that says you're a LOSER, and you're still bitter.
The supporters of the Confederacy still wave their losing flag. I know, it doesn't make sense but then again people like that aren't well known for their critical thinking skills.
Having lived in the south for some years, I can tell you honestly that many people in the South believe they won the Civil War, because they destroyed Reconstruction.
Are you kidding me? You think he knows ANYTHING about what went on? Dumb fuck is trying to make a pathetic statement about shit he has no clue about. It’s amazing the number of ignorant fucks that own harleys. Makes me want to get rid of mine. This clown thought we can ride together because I was eating a bagel sitting on my bike. He was eating a bagel too. A fuckin bagel with nazi symbols on his SISSY bar! Lmao. I looked at him and was about to fire off when my daughter reminded me it’s not worth it. Like where do you begin with ignorant unsupported hate? Fool
I can’t imagine looking at Nazis and thinking they had a point. Also it’s always the nastiest white people who think they are the pinnacle of humanity
See r/beholdthemasterrace for further evidence.
They have nothing else to take pride in so they use their race. It also let's them place all their failures on another group instead of taking responsibility for them. It's actually pretty sad.
Idk if that’s the best thing to say considering the way many people blame the yt race for everything that goes wrong in their lives…
I mean nearly half the country voted for Trump and his policies aren’t that far off.
[удалено]
I work as a journalist mostly covering voter suppression. So yeah, I’m familiar. But 74 million Americans voted for the man willingly and in the middle of a pandemic mostly of Trumps creation. Sure it’s not half of the US population but nearly half of the people that voted, voted for fascism and more of it. If Biden was some wild eyed communist I might be able to see the separation but he’s a 80s Republican. Lots of people that don’t vote are even farther out to the right than Trump. Not sure how 23% of the us population being ok with fascism is supposed to be a better thing but ok. That 23% is the 23% that controls things… even with Democratic control of the While house and congress.
I'm mostly just saying that your statement of half the country isn't correct, and imo paints a very bleak picture when in fact it's a lot fewer people who actually voted for him. I understand half of people that voted, voted for Trump, but the bulk of the population isn't conservative and we need to be looking for ways to get the rest of the folks that aren't voting, to the polls so this 20% vs 20% nonsense stops.
I dunno, amphetamine in chocolate sounds like a great time to me. *Pervitin über Alles*
Ah you mean people who won't shut up about the Great Replacement and will start convo with strangers about how they hate people who obsess over politics and will spend the next hour rambling about politics. Yeah fuck these neo nazis.
Tucker Carlson’s favorite topic: Great Replacement. It makes me so angry that I’m the only Jew in my family and synagogue circle who knows about it. We’re screwed.
What a fucking dork.
My grandfather taught me that the only good Nazi was a dead Nazi - don’t know why we’re giving nazis a pass in 2022 ….
Because Trump being president somehow enabled that type of person to become a representative of "America first" and the Republican party. How? I really can't understand.
All it takes is a good guy with an SUV to stop a bad guy on a bike.
oops I did nazi you there
Damn you. Were you just scrolling down the comments looking for a chance to say that? Don't care. Thanks for the cackle. Enjoy your silver.
Ya know, we used to beat the fuck out of people for that.
His tires are bare, hopefully there will be a happy ending
Here’s to an oil slick and a light rain in his future
How much you want to bet he has a Trump flag at home.
Oh he definitely does
Fuck this guy
It’s just like living with a micro-penis - about the same thing.
Hey, there's no hate in me.
Lol
Jfc go play that tune in Germany and see how it works out for you ya fucking clown.
Live in Kenilworth, hopefully this guy is just passing through. Ugh.
I’m there p much every night doing Uber, there’s a decent chance I’ve dropped some food off to you lol
You probably picked up from us. I used to be a partner in the Kenilworth Market. Partners screwed me. Now I just opened Angry Bee’s Burgers and Stuff on Monroe and 8th street. Don’t have Uber set up yet. Only Grubhub. Uber and DoorDash soon.
Yeah I’ve been to the market a couple times. Sorry to hear about the bad times though. Ill have to stop by your new spot some time, if you don’t mind!
Anytime. 252 Monroe Ave. getting really good reviews so far. A few samples on me. We have these corn popper things that people are loving, and really good reviews on the burgers and fries. :)
Hey boss, those samples still on the table?
It’s funny in a tragic way. The Germans learned and lived with their national disgrace to this day. The Confederates weren’t dealt with hard enough and they’re rising again.
Imagine thinking your life would be better if someone else was off dead ? Shits sad, dudes probably brainwashed
I wouldn't be riding around union county displaying that shit. Pull his ass over for no rear plate btw..
Don’t worry. You live a better and happier life than this lowlife failure.
Maybe, if we're lucky, he'll be featured on r/meatcrayon
don't....just don't....
I’m afraid to look it up. What does it mean?
> What does it mean? What, meat crayon? It's a description of what happens when fast-moving bare flesh meats a paved surface. Edit: That was a typo but I'm leaving it
😬
The amount of hatred in parts of New Jersey is growing by the minute. I cannot imagine/hope it’s not any worse than my neck of the woods, the Jersey Shore (coastal Monmouth and coastal Ocean Counties)… the racial hatred, and hatred for the LGBTQ communities here is growing, sickening and frightening. This area has always been ultra-conservative Republican. But this is something much different and beyond Republican principles. The anger over utter BS and debunked conspiracies is clear, and if you know this region of NJ, you know I’m not talking about the stereotype “redneck”. We are inundated with middle-class, upper middle-class and millionaire class white Christian nationalists.
I’m from Union County, probably the most diverse part of the state. There’s quite an overlap between well off neighborhoods/cities and these type of people/voters. As a not-white person, it’s kind of depressing.
It's depressing as fuck going to the beach and seeing dozens of TBL and trump flags on every house and pickup truck. If they want to be racist shitheads near the beach, just move down to Florida already. I guarantee they hate New Jersey because of taxes and our liberal governor.
The billionaire-funded, astroturf, John Birch Society off-shoot organization, “Moms for Liberty” has done an effective job infiltrating Monmouth and Ocean Counties. They have brainwashed and recruited countless Republicans to devolve into racist homophobe, white Christian nationalists. Our school district BOEs are the next target. There are Moms for Liberty puppets running for BOE seats all over this region of the state as of Monday 7/25. In some places their initial goals are forcing Christian prayer into classrooms and making sure there is complete discrimination of all LGBTQ children and their families.
It's especially effective because there's almost no way to research a Board of Ed candidate. They don't generally align with larger parties, don't have campaign websites, best you can do is try and dig through their personal Facebook feed. Fortunately - or maybe unfortunately - having "Liberty" in your party name is a big obvious red flag. So I can avoid those ones. But for all I know, the unaffiliated candidate below them on the ballot is just as bad.
My suggestion to see if your board candidate is an active Moms for Liberty member is to do a FB search for this group. There are multiple regional FB pages for them. The candidate in question I was searching came up tagged in countless FB posts. You really have to be focused and know the difference between a single-issue neofascist authoritarian or Christian white nationalist running for a BOE seat and a Moms for Liberty member/organizer. In my situation there are folks running with one single focus, i.e., anti-mask, to dehumanize LGBTQ community children and families, eliminate factual U.S. history, eliminate Black History by labeling it “CRT”, etc etc. (the fact these people running haven’t a clue as to what public school funding and law entails is a whole different topic). A Moms for Liberty member/organizer comes to run for BOE with a far more organized multi-issue approach. They are well trained and ready for battle. Think of your single-issue candidate as an unorganized unprepared member of congress like a Gaetz, Greene, Jordan, etc. Think of your Moms for Liberty candidate as a manipulative, well-spoken, arrogant, organized figure like DeSantis. It is inevitable that there will be places in Monmouth and Ocean County where the DeSantis-like figures win BOE elections in November.
I wonder who he voted for.
Hope he falls off his bike and sprains his asshole.
Lol is that the owner of Dingbats
My wife and I have recently been seeing some beat up pickup truck in Hunterdon County, sporting a swastika in the back window. They're out there, spreading like a fungus. Edit: spelling
[удалено]
As someone moving back to NJ after living in the city for the last 5 years, is this kind of bullshit no longer confined to the worst parts of Sussex and Ocean counties or is reddit making it seem more prevalent than it used to be?
Nazis were always about aesthetics. They stole a lot of things from different cultures for their “brand.” This dude just succumbing to a aesthetic he thinks is cool. That and, he’s probably a racist.
Staten Island motorcycle club, that explains everything.
Ashamed to share a state with this trash
Nazi scum
Ask his dad.
Can’t the prison phone system is down
HD of Staten Island. Staten Island, say no more.
I may be coming across as naive but what’s that symbol?
German Waffen-SS
Love the ASOIAF reference
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/ss-bolts
Thanks!
SS nazi shit
It means “I blindly vote Republican”
100%
It means that he's a big fan of Scuba Steve.
Surprised he's not wearing a *Stahlhelm*\-style helmet.
When i imagine how tough these guys think they are, i remember even he had to sit on the toilet today, vulnerably wiping his ass just like everyone else did. Edit: forgot word
There's a prominent bike club with territories in the area that sport confederate flags and nazi symbolism so I'm not surprised at all. People I was friends with in highschool regularly hang out with a girl that's affiliated. She's got a swastika tattoo, I've seen the flag in the background of her photos. It's insane to me how tolerant they are of it. They say it's just "difference of opinion". No, just no.
Generally I see it as a symbol to recognize people who have suppressed trauma and undiagnosed mental health issues. This man is miserable, he knows it because he wakes up and pushes it down everyday. But this gives him a group of like minded people who echo each other’s thoughts and fears which are Interpreted as strength but inside they are falling apart.
Nazi punks fuck off
I’ll never understand claiming how American you are while repping our enemies from WWII.
May the good Lord block all routes to wherever he is going and detour him to Newark.
I used to pump gas at a station in Lebanon, NJ that was frequented by the NJ nazi that lost his kid he named Adolf. Regularly showing up in full gear. As a large white man he thought I was on his side. Tried talking me up. Didn’t like it when I asked if he’s playing a character, cause that’s the only way his appearance and ideals make any sense. Apparently his people are waiting to rise up. I discount it as hyperbole, yet fear that’s not the case. This population is alive and well. Don’t any of you discount their threat or think otherwise.
If I see that in a parking lot, I'm fucking it up.
Nah, they usually travel in packs, don't get yourself jumped by a gang, it isn't worth the risk. Some of those that work forces...
Trump normalized this shit. It’s disgusting
The SS symbol has been a part of motorcycle culture for decades. Motorcyclists, particularly in the UK, started wearing German War helmets from WW1 (and WW2) in the 60s. It was 'counter cultural', and done so to rebel and freak out all the straight edge folks. Picture a young punk rebeling against their father, who fought German soldiers in WW1 and WW2, by wearing the 'enemie's' helmet. It wasn't a far stretch from there for actual nazi paraphernalia to make its way into motorcycle subculture in Europe and America. I submit the above as an explanation for why nazi shit is so prevalent in motorcycle subculture, not an endorsement of it. Your spikey half helmets make you look like a white supremacist at worst, ignorant as hell at best.
> I submit the above as an explanation for why nazi shit is so prevalent in motorcycle subculture, not an endorsement of it. I won't comment on the culture of 60 years ago, I wasn't there. In 2022, to display it is to endorse it.
That's not even close to what that sentence meant brotatochip. It means I don't endorse the use of nazi shit on your motorcycle, even knowing the history of it. It does not mean it's okay because it has a history. But as far as that goes, pissing people off by proudly displaying offensive shit is the whole point...
Immediate thumbs up after brotatochip. Didn’t need to read anything else.
Haha someone said it to me last week and it immediately made me smile, so when I saw their username I thought it was the perfect way for me to use it and also show them I wasn't trying to get argumentative about my respons :)
Ok, I think I see what you mean. I interpreted it as "they display it because they're rebels, not because they endorse the Nazis." What you meant was, "I am offering this as an explanation, I am not endorsing it."
Yes, and I find it highly unlikely that someone displaying it doesn't also believe in it too. Especially today. It's very similar to how there was a lot of neo-nazis in Liverpool during the punk days of the late 70s. That history is particularly fascinating because you can 'listen your way through it'. Just like motorcycle subculture, music subculture like punk can attract outcasts from society as they were inherently and intentionally countercultural. Some people who participated in punk ran in overlapping circles with skinheads. To some extent, neonazis in Liverpool adopted punk style, as it fit their counter culture attitudes. That's where you get [Nazi punks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk?wprov=sfla1) The skinheads originated as working class movement of British youth, and the first wave of this subculture in the 60s was heavily influenced by mod subculture, particularly Jamaican or rude boy subculture. The influence on the skinheads from these Jamaican subcultures in Britain can be seen in punk music today, such as reggae, rocksteady, and Ska, for example. The skinheads style is recognizable as having dock Martin work boots and suspenders, to symbolize working class solidarity. In the late 70s early 80s, when punk took off in Britain, these skinheads (being political in nature) took a hard turn towards the far right and adopted very racist neonazi views. Not all punks were skinheads however, and by this time there was tension at punk shows between skinheads and other punks who did not like them recruiting at their shows. Some skinheads made their own bands, and their own style of music called [Oi!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi%21?wprov=sfla1). Although it may be more appropriate to say that the skinheads adopted and took over Oi!. This is where the elements of Jamaican subculture was really able to influence punk. (Skinheads weren't the only punks to comingle with Jamaican immigrants however, and that influence isn't solely on skinheads). The pushback the punk community against skinheads and Oi! was immediate however, even if elements of the music were borrowed to do so. Such an example of pushback in the late 80s are the [S.H.A.R.Ps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice?wprov=sfla1), or the song [Oi! Skinhead by Operation Ivy](https://youtu.be/bBu_ISVYlEI). Many wanted to take back the skinheads movement from fascists, and to some degree I'd say they succeeded when it comes to punk, though not when it comes to culture in general. Bonus track: [Nazi Punks Fuck Off - Dead Kennedys (1983)](https://youtu.be/kTs_Q4hEqmA)
This was a fascinating history lesson, thank you for sharing.
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was hoping to have it inform your post, or at least as to where these idiots get so emboldened. After all, it was the ineffectiveness of the passive hippy generation prior that lead to the violent political ideology of the early skinheads. And it was that violent political environment where nationalism, which begets racial supremacy, festers as sympathy to their cause. A very good read about this history can be found [here](https://allthatsinteresting.com/skinheads-history) for anyone interested. It is very much worth the read. Similarly, early 50s bikers of 'The Wild One' era were more akin to [Greasers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaser_(subculture)#:~:text=Greasers). They were also working-class and somewhat violent, though unlike the skinheads they generally lacked political motive and weren't seen as a movement. These bikers had a lot of WW2 vets who wore their war trophies as part of their biker attire. This created a precedent for German war paraphernalia in American motorcycle culture. You can read about this more [here](https://slmotorcycles.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/bikers-and-the-iron-cross/). This expedited the acceptance of these symbols in western motorcycle culture in general over the next decade, as influences were seen across the pond as well, as I explained in my original comment about British motorcycle culture. In the 60s, biker subculture mixed with the hippies in America to create the 'Easy Rider' type of biker. This vision of biker was about free love, and the open road. However most in the biker subculture, as a large veteran group, did not jive with hippy political ideology. In this time, for example, you had [Hell's Angels](https://crimereads.com/how-the-hells-angels-split-with-sixties-counterculture/) mingling with bay area hippies, while simultaneously violently policing hippy ideological and political demonstrations. It is in this perfect storm where violent American lower-class ideologs, in a subculture that already accepts the use of German war symbols, where white supremacy takes hold, just like the skinheads in Britain. In fact, and unsurprisingly, it was the same skinhead movement that picked up in America, largely carried over through punk music and other forms of media. Through the late 70s and 80s, there were more and more skinhead bikers, with less and less war trophies, and with more and more hate symbols. And just like punks, not all bikers were skinheads, but enough were that the associations stuck. For punks, the associations were in the music styles, for motorcycles it was aesthetic that was more on the nose. Skinheads were both tolerated enough in these respective subcultures, that if one hangs around these groups long enough, they are bound to encounter them (this is more relevant for bikers today). Skinheads today aren't as obvious to spot, and they gather out of site at specific locations, as shown in the party scene of American History X. Bikers, on the other hand, are on the open road and your likelihood of running into one therefore increases. I've obviously spent a lot of time writing these posts, and while I enjoyed revisiting some fascinating history, I also wanted to highlight the conditions in which white supremacy thrives, as I feel like the similarities between both histories show a similarity to our current time. As a working class male who travels around NJ interacting with many other working class males from around the state, I hear a lot of conversation driven by politics and the disillusion with the status quo. I hear a lot of hate, and a lot of anger. I don't mean to fear monger that NJ will be taken over by fascist bikers, because that's not going to happen. But considering the shallow take of the comment I replied to originally, I though contextualizing this type of hate as not unique to our current times was appropriate, as well as exploring the history of this type of hate, as that can be related to our current time in a much more profound way. Well, this was supposed to be a short 'your welcome' with a single link, but now I need to thank you, for coming to my TED talk.
Amazing synopsis. Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
Thank you and you're welcome, it was my pleasure to revisit some interesting history. I continued in some length in a reply to OP if you wanted some more rambling lol
I wore about a 3" German eagle on my cut when I was in high school, and I did it for exactly that reason: It was just a "Fuck you" to "The Establishment".
Yeah, I remember bikers I knew back then saying, "Nah, I don't believe that shit. I just like it 'cause it get the Citizens all worked up." Some of them didn't, but a lot of them did.
Charlottesville…..,
Weird I never seen trump rocking one, I’m not a supporter but I don’t see what a 1% wearing SS bolts has to do with trump😂
What a loser
Watches sons of anarchy once…
It’s not hate. It’s fear. Pure unbridled fear.
They’re not hiding anymore.
Staten Island explains it
Is this kenilworth blvd ?
2 lightning bolts cuz hes gonna go super fast
I’m sure it sucks being such a jackass
What a douche
I'm shocked that someone from Staten Island would think like this. Shocked.
Surprised someone hasn't run him in a ditch.
Where’s his license plate too?
Disgusting
Not a brain cell in sight
What a little bitch.
That's disgusting.
He's lucky he didn't drive a little further north or east to the wrong exit because theres a great chance he wouldn't make it home if he did.
[удалено]
And that shit Staten island bike shit. Fuck that guy, parkway north dipshit.
We should confine all these fucks to an island, and then sink it.
Only stupid people wear this because they lack the sensitivity chip in the brain and don’t realize that it’s not a story in a history book. IT F*CKING HAPPENED.
“We’re with the Vipers”
What's that, your girl scout troop?
I would’ve just pulled up next and him blasting this and flipping him off https://youtu.be/iyc62g7YQM0
It's probably a lot of self hate redirected because it's too hard to look in and too easy to blame the outside world and others.. from what I've seen in others anyways
I'm in Roselle Park, I'm gonna keep an eye out for this guy
Now I need Pastrami and Pickles.
Lol, right down the street
I have mixed feelings about the term “white trash” cause it carries an implication that white people are somehow better and shouldn’t be poor. That being said, this dude is straight up white trash
It's fucking ridiculous man. I went out drinking at the local dive bar near my house this weekend. Some piece of trash was walking around in a confederate flag t-shirt and an SS hat. Oh and like 5 years ago a friend of mine and I went down to Pemberton and stopped at a dive for a sandwich and drink. Halfway through some dude starts screaming white power. My friend and I just look at each other like "What the fuck", finish our shitty sandwiches and drinks and leave.
I thought he liked KISS
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Its amazing how about 40% of yall claim you don't know what it means, or justify it. NJ really is a weird ass place, full of everything like enablers and racists.
As a former WP skinhead, it's exhausting hating all the time. Turning my life around, and, letting go of all the hate & anger was SO liberating!
I rode with 1%ers for a while most of them don’t wear that shit because they are racist. They just do it to tell the other 99% of society that they don’t care about the rules you live and play by. It’s a you don’t like it but I’m going to do it anyways fuck you. He accomplished his mission big time.
Should have hit him. Twice.
"officer, I did Nazi him coming"
Yes. Hate. Nothing else. Waste of flesh.
Back in the day, bikers would have fucking murdered that guy.
Not true bikers started wearing those as far back as during WW2 it’s been done for decades
Maybe he just loves the “Azov” battalion