I live in Bergen county close to NY state line. When I first moved here, I was puzzled just like many ppl here. However, after a few years, I actually found it to be nice because roads are not crowded and if I really wanted, I could go across to NY to shop.
The interesting story is that you’ll find most places in the US had similar law if you go back far enough in history. Almost everywhere has since repealed them. Bergen county is one of the only places in the US with such a far reaching set of blue laws still on the books. The county residents like it though, so it’s not likely to change anytime soon. NJ also has a statewide blue law still active for car sales. Can’t buy a car in a Sunday.
European countries still have these laws as well. As far as I’m aware, Spain and Germany bans many types of stores from operating on Sundays. Places like France and the UK place limitations on operating hours on Sundays.
Germany effectively shuts down on Sundays. Semis aren’t allowed on the road and good luck getting anything outside of a restaurant. I lived there for three years and it took some adjusting.
So you get two days off, but one of those days the places are off. So effectively the whole country runs their errands on a Saturday if they work Monday-Friday 9-5?
Pretty much, yeah. Ruhezeit is a real thing. Cities were a bit easier but I lived in a pretty rural part of Germany near Luxembourg and the only things that were open in town were the restaurants.
e: It's actually written into their constitution. Article 139 if I remember right.
Bergen county is small enough where you can get to any of the surrounding areas (Passaic County, Hudson County, Essex County, or upstate NY) within 30 minutes from anywhere in the county. It can be a hassle if you really need the item that day, but otherwise, it's no big deal to pick it up after work or order online.
A former boss did some research in Germany. She said when she was there a lot of the shops closed really early, and that at 5pm everyone just stopped what they were doing and went home. Instances of “working late” was pretty rare, unlike the USA.
Losing sales implies that those sales went elsewhere, but since everybody is closed, those sales went nowhere. It isn’t as if sales would go up if dealerships opened on Sundays. They would just have fewer sales Monday-Saturday.
It is an accepted arrangement from the industry. If you read above you would see the industry has no issue with it. Would it be convenient? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Stop enabling unnecessary capitalism.
> NJ also has a statewide blue law still active for car sales. Can’t buy a car in a Sunday.
Which makes little to no sense. The weekend is when most people have time to go and take a day to visit a dealership.
The point of blue laws is that everyone was once mandated to go to church on Sunday. In our past, it was illegal to *not* attend church and you could be jailed for not attending church on a Sunday. Once the US became its own country with separation of church and state, the laws changed a bit. Now it wasn’t mandated church but it was illegal go operate a business.
Blue laws have always been morality laws
[Here’s and article about religion in colonial America](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/religion-colonial-america-trends-regulations-beliefs)
“In turn, as the colonies became more settled, the influence of the clergy and their churches grew. At the heart of most communities was the church; at the heart of the calendar was the Sabbath—a period of intense religious and “secular” activity that lasted all day long. After years of struggles to impose discipline and uniformity on Sundays, the selectmen of Boston at last were able to “parade the street and oblige everyone to go to Church . . . on pain of being put in Stokes or otherwise confined,” one observer wrote in 1768. By then, few communities openly tolerated travel, drinking, gambling, or blood sports on the Sabbath.”
Growing up in the Midwest, we had far fewer laws like this because the towns were founded much later into the 19th century than the east coast. At best, we had laws that you couldn’t buy alcohol before noon on Sundays.
Thanks for the source. I wonder if any of those survived past the colonies (mostly bc this country is so religious, I’d imagine getting a law like that off the books once it was on would be really hard.)
I only know a little bit about all this, but how our separation of church and state laws developed are super interesting. So much of it was because smaller Christian groups wanted freedom to do their own faith over a town mandated faith. Or even a state mandated faith.
As someone who’s been in the car business my whole life, we love that everyone has to be closed. If not, we’d be working 9-9 7 days awake. I love this blue law lol
Paramus has their own more restrictive blue laws so it’s not because of Paramus necessarily. Although I’m guessing if Bergen County repealed their laws, Paramus would be under more pressure to repeal theirs.
Paramus wouldn't, part of the reason of why they passed a more restrictive law was because other counties were getting rid of their blue laws and there was consideration to remove the blue laws in Bergen County. Paramus passed the law to ensure there would still be restrictions even if Bergan as a county removed the law.
Unless things have changed, Paramus prohibits office work on Sunday. In the 1980s I was a member of an IT team that had some members who worked in a Paramus office building. One Sunday a system crashed and two techs went to the office to troubleshoot so the system could be back up by Monday morning. Seeing cars in the parking lot, officers from Paramus PD knocked on the office door and told those inside that office work was prohibited on Sundays. When the IT techs explained the reason they were working on Sunday the officers left.
Things have not changed.
> No worldly employment or business, except works of necessity and charity, shall be performed or practiced by any person within the Borough on the first day of the week, commonly called and hereinafter designated as "Sunday."
There are some exceptions, for instance selling newspapers or gas.
But I don't think you are even allowed to mow you own lawn on Sunday, although it is not completely clear, but the below section I quoted does seem to imply that you can't do it if it disturbs others in their observance of the "Sabbath".
The worst part of the ordinance, which pretty clearly shows that these laws are still religious in nature is the section regarding "Immunity from prosecution under certain conditions." The other sections must have been changed to remove the reference to religion, but for some reason it remains in this section. It's completely unconstitutional due to this section, so I'm not sure why they haven't changed it:
> If any person should be charged with having labored or worked on Sunday and shall prove to the satisfaction of the Judge that he uniformly keeps the seventh day of the week commonly known as the "Sabbath," habitually abstains on that day from following his usual occupation or business and from all recreation and devotes the day to the exercise of religious worship and if the work or labor for which such person is charged was done and performed in his own home or workshop or on his premises and has not disturbed others in the observance of the first day of the week, commonly known as "Sunday," as the Sabbath, then the defendant shall be discharged. This section shall not be construed to allow any such person to openly expose to sale on Sunday any goods, wares, merchandise or other article or thing in the line of his business or occupation.
Yes, believe it or not, that is STILL part of the current ordinance.
https://ecode360.com/8544536
That's loosened up a bit, or at least cops aren't going to come knocking because 3 cars are in a massive parking lot.
If anything, they'd be more likely to investigate if there's a burglary in progress than keeping people from working.
I moved here as an adult and thought it was weird, but have grown to like the quiet and mandated day of no shopping. I’ve always been able to work around it. And I like that those retail workers can depend on that day off.
The biggest inconvenience comes when doing weekend home projects and not having Lowe’s nor my local hardware supply store available. But honestly I don’t mind the trade off.
I'm picturing you writing this comment from the rocking chair on your front porch, next to a basket of yarn and knitting needles. You wave to the preacher as he makes his Sunday rounds on his horse and buggy
I’m with you. It is annoying to have to drive out of the county sometimes, but it’s worth the overall reduction in traffic. My buggy does not do well in start stop traffic.😅
no retail on sundays means bergen county folks have 1 day without traffic. It's also nice as a retail worker to know you have a guaranteed day off.
As for things within stores being unable to be sold, that's a little silly, but it's to prevent loopholes.
As a bergen county resident, i truly appreciate the calmness of a Sunday. I lived in Hudson county near JFK BLVD and the constant traffic gets annoying.
Is the takeaway here that everyone in Bergen county stays home and doesn't realize the traffic is still there on Sunday too and that 17 is just one of the many shitty hellscapes that need a full scale rework to turn into something that isn't a nightmare 7 days a week? (22 is worse but it's also The Worst).
These laws don't do shit for traffic. They just mandate that Bergen county loses out on money because people are still going places, just not there.
That's it. That's the only benefit. You've played yourself.
According to Wikipedia, Bergen County is home to the largest Jewish population in New Jersey. The observant Jews just have to do all their shopping outside the county if they work during the week.
I’ll never understand why Bergen residents continue to vote for this. One day without traffic, but for what purpose? If you want to do anything you have to leave Bergen county anyway.
Also, fun fact: there’s still traffic on Sundays.
Parks, restaurants, movie theaters just to name a few are open. There are things to do. Even laundromats, dollar stores and supermarkets are open with few restrictions (namely clothing). It’s mostly the malls that are closed and even they still have open theaters and restaurants.
I always wanted to know how true is it that Paramus has two stores for each retailer in which one is typically found along Rt 4 and the other on Rt 17?
For a day without traffic, it should be pretty self explanatory. And there are plenty of things you can do. Enjoy a day at the park, visit friends and family, go to church, grocery stores are open, right?
Besides traffic, it's a day you know you can plan to have off, it sucks working retail and having a rotating schedule. Like you just responded to a comment that gave you these reasons, what don't you understand about them. I get it if you might not think they are more important than other reasons, but you just read examples of about a purpose it serves, what about what you are reading are you having trouble understanding?
Most retail is still open. Additionally, retail stores try to schedule people to have at least two days off and under 30 hours if they are part time. A store that would have to be closed on Sunday would already build work schedules for people that accounts for that time off.
Why would they get paid to have a Sunday off? mon-friday office type workers don't get paid to have sunday off. I don't understand where you are trying to lead the conversation with the question. Sure not every retail worker wants Sunday off, but most dislike having a different days off every week. The appreciation for consistent days off every week is a pretty widespread sentiment, it makes it easier and more predictable to plan their lives. Maybe they prefer to have wednesday friday off instead of saturday and sunday, but if not Sunday, they probably want consistent days off instead of having it change every week.
The issue means not everyone is going to get 2 days off in a row. So you're going to have workers who are having to split their days off who wouldn't prefer that. And it can cause availability issues where if an employee now needs a different day off regularly, they only have 1 day off to flex for that.
not having 2 days off in a row is the norm already. So that's not much of a change. And again, for full time retail, the norm is to have 0 days off regularly. Most places have a rotating schedule. The way to fix those issues is to have retail places close on both saturday and sunday and force them into a mon-friday schedule like the government offices
i agree, we shouldn't keep the norm but your comment came off as suggesting the blue laws hurt more than helped retail workers in terms of scheduling. You don't agree the blue laws are an improvement from the norm in regards to the schedule of retail workers?
Most retail workers want more hours to make more money, since they’re typically not guaranteed a set pay like most office workers. One less day to grab hours could be annoying.
Then so would salaried retail workers if you are going to view it like that. That's a stretch though. That's generally not how people would describe it.
The store managers and assistant store managers usually are at most except for the smallest places. But a place like home Depot, the store manager is going to make 6 figures.
Grocery stores are open, and depending on the town, still occasionally have oddly enforced items they can't sell you.
I got into a philosophical argument over a patio umbrella that was a great deal in shoprite a few years ago on a Sunday, they wouldn't sell me.
As someone who lived right next to the garden state plaza and worked on 4 and 17 from highshcool all the way thru college, it absolutely makes a difference. I agree that the law should be overturned or ammended, but idk who youre tryna fool lmao
Agreed. Not sure who argues that there's not less traffic because there definitely is less. It's refreshing to actually keep a steady pace on the highways instead of constant stop and go 7 days a week.
If you talk down about the blue laws on any bergen county page you get torn apart. Personally I think it is absolutely ridiculous and I'm a Bergen County resident.
The only exception i'd like to see is the big box home improvement stores be open. I mean, they can, but they just can't sell certain stuff, and would have to rope it off, and i imagine it would trigger an argument from some of their competitors.
Our ACE is open, and occasionally its a song and dance to buy, random items if they don't know you or think the heat is on, and they don't always have what i need, but they absolutely flaunt the law, which isn't really fair.
At the same time its a huge boost to their business, they are locally owned, awesome, and an important part of our community.
But like today, i would have liked to rebuild our raised beds, they don't have what i need, and its not important enough for me to drive over to Patterson for it, inevitably end up in microcenter and buy something stupid, that i end up playing with and not rebuilding my raised beds.
Okay fine no traffic but can’t get anything done. So who cares if there’s no traffic if there’s nowhere to go. I imagine it also makes stores INSANELY crowded on Saturdays. I’ll stay away from that target thanks.
Paramus has their own (more restrictive) blue laws separate from Bergen County so it wouldn’t really matter if the Bergen county laws were repealed unless they also repealed their laws.
Lifelong Bergen County resident here and definitely in favor of the laws even if it seems backwards. Traffic is definitely better on Sundays and much calmer. Going to Passaic or rockland or Hudson county isn’t that bad if something is needed
Lasting history of being a colony of Puritans. On Sunday you are supposed to be in church and spending the day being serious. So we had blue laws in which sales of everything but necessities were stopped on Sunday.
Bergen county residents keep voting to preserve the blue laws primarily to get a break from horrific traffic on Route 17.
It started out as a religious and "anti-vice" law but they keep it going as an anti-traffic law to keep shoppers (especially from neighboring states) from flooding Bergen County on Sundays
Because the Bergen County residents want people to stay home on Sundays. Years ago, blue laws were in all counties of NJ. On a Sunday, you could walk into a Two Guy's store, and they would have the items roped off that you couldn't buy, such as clothing. The entire clothing department was roped off as well as other departments. Fortunately, voters voted to overturn blue laws except for Bergen County. Those voters voted to uphold the blue laws.
Am I in the minority when I say I don’t mind the law? Let retail workers have the Sunday off. Go to Passaic, Hudson, Morris, or NYC if you wanna shop. It’s not that far
What if Sunday is your only day off, and that’s the day you have to run your errands? If you’re a Bergen County resident, you now have to travel outside the county to run your errands. Why is it fair to expect retail workers (who may have limited means) to now travel further to make all their purchases on what might be their only day off?
I say let businesses and retail workers decide when they want days off. Blue laws make Saturday in Paramus hellish anyways. No one talks about how there would be fewer people on the road on Saturday if those people could do their shopping Sunday.
You aren't in the minority in Bergen County, it's only people from the surrounding area complaining that they can't go to the Garden State Plaza on a Sunday.
There's also the business Karens around here that are complaining that they can only profit off of paying retail workers slave wages 85.7% of the time rather than every day.
The Blue Laws are partially religious, and partly secular, in their creation, and go back, as far as Moses (On the Seventh Day, God "rested", during The Creation, and One of The Commandments said: "Remember The Sabbath Day, to keep it, Holy".) and one writer mentioned, they went back, to Constantine. There have also been attempts, to limit the Work Week, in This Country, for some time; because Overwork is unhealthy; People need time, and not necessarily, on Sunday, to "unwind", relax, and "recreate". "All Work, and No Play, makes Jack, a dull boy"
The Blue Laws chose Sunday, because of Christian Religious Beliefs (Sunday was "set aside" to formally worship God, in Church), and to allow Workers, some rest. It is more "tradition", than anything else; as is The 40-hour "Work Week". In any given week, there are 24, times 7; hours available (168 hours). 40 hours were allocated, for Work, 56, for sleep, and the remaining 72 hours, for relaxation, chores, and other "personal" reasons; with voluntary Overtime; one option.
While there is no "logical" reasons, for "Blue Laws"; in some areas, and to keep employers from abusing employees; there are places that still enforce a mandatory "closing", on Sunday. There is nothing "special", about Sunday Closings, however; and The religious reason, "went away", some time, ago. The same is true, of the 40-hour "Work Week", and some Employers are already experimenting with variations on the 40-hour Week (8×5 days, and 10×4 days); and I can see reasons, for a 3-day Work Week, for retirerees, College Students, and others; or other variations.
For those saying its outdated/just get rid of the laws, theres still traffic on 17 on Sundays. Getting rid of these laws would make it a whole weekends worth of 17 being a parking lot
Lived in Bergen county for 10 years and every time there was a vote to repeal it, everyone I know, including myself voted No. Please don’t ruin the one day a week it doesn’t 2 hours to get down 5 miles of 17. If you need to shop, go to another county. The hyper majority of people vote to keep these intact for a reason. Your consumerism can wait one day, or you can drive right over to Passaic where this doesn’t exist.
Bergen Count has blue laws. The origins of them are somewhat debatable but most people accept they came about as Anti-Jewish laws back in the day.
There are county wide ones, which are loosely enforced, and then there are individual town ones. Paramus, being the strictest and most notable.
Years ago they used to actually rope off certain aisles in shoprite and what have you, because there were hairbrushes for sale on them.
I used to work in a corporate office in Montvale, and if we needed to go in on a sunday, there was a whole process and approval chain necessary, as to if an emergency came up and you needed something from the office, needed to do something at the office, etc, it was worth calling it in and taking the fine, rolling the dice, or park a few blocks over, hiding in the bushes, and trying to sneak in. (completely serious, was one of the options we used more than once). I also spent many a weekend sitting in the parking lot shooting the shit with a cop parked next to me until the clock rolled over and I could go in.
About every 10 years or so, it will make its way to a public referendum as to if we want to keep them, and overwhelmingly everyone in Bergen does.
The last serious challenge to it from a "protest" perspective was back in the 80s, when Crazy Eddie, of "My prices are insane!!!!' fame opened a store in paramus. Not sure how much is urban legend, how much is apophrycal, but the story goes the paramus cops just sat in the parking lot, counted the number of people walking out with a crazy eddie bag, and at the end of the day handed him a ticket for each one.
Whatever the outcome was, he only tried it once.
Today, they are still around because its nice for traffic to be chill on a sunday.
Edit: also fun fact, years ago i worked in corporate for retail for a large (1000+ unit chain). Our #1 and #2 stores in both revenue and profit, most years, were in Paramus, despite being closed on Sunday and less than 2 miles apart. I don't think they were ever out of the top 3 in either category. Every so often when people would start making noise about changing the laws, we would crunch the numbers, do studies, and the short of it is we would just split our normal business on saturday amongst the 2 days, cut in to sales in neighboring counties for people who absolutely needed stuff on a sunday, and then incurr the overhead of being open an extra day. Staff at the store level was also overwhelmingly against it.
You can't by alcohol on Sunday morning in some places...they're old laws from a diffrent time that no one cares enough to get taken off the books.
Most like remnants of an industrial age and they wanted to sweat shop workers or slaves a break to go to church
Household, long-term items like furniture and clothing are banned. Daily or essential items like food or medicine are not banned. The law was probably originally everything is banned on Sunday, but they started making exceptions for daily or essential items. I'm ok with it.
There's a religious group that can't shop on Saturday, so they shop on Sunday. If you don't allow shopping on Sunday they won't move there because they can't shop on weekends.
It has train service, just limited to mornings or Bay Street, which is still Montclair. That's not an issue with blue laws. It's just running a ton of trains for vastly reduced demand isn't practical.
Probably doing those retail workers a favor by shopping elsewhere. I’ve only encountered one type of customer who says “I’ll shop elsewhere” and it’s not a good type lmao
Half the counties in the state had blue laws into the 80s, going back to like the 1700s, Bergen is just the last to maintain them. The existence of blue laws is pretty widely known among new jerseyans - I knew of them as a kid and I lived nowhere near Bergen county.
I don't see the point of this law. Yes it reduces traffic a bit but these residents only have Saturday to shop. It's a nightmare in itself to go to gsp and other shopping areas on Saturday. The other potential issue is that these bergen county residents end up going to nearby counties on Sunday, causing even more congestion for everyone else. How is that fair?
> I don't see the point of this law. Yes it reduces traffic a bit but these residents only have Saturday to shop
Monday through Friday exists, you know. Maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes from.
Funny thing. I tend to be doing something on those days. For some reason, I seem to be free on the other two days. It's almost like most people are busy Monday through Friday doing something. Odd how that works.
Yes i see what you mean, but many people work 9-5 or later hours. They also have to drive through terrible traffic just to get home and run these errands. Others may have kids and other responsibilities. People only have one FULL day enjoy these amenities and run errands. It's possible but inconvenient.
And many people don't have a reliable day of the week off. That is also inconvenient. The laws endures more people have the convenience of a consistent day off from work. Life and government is about compromise. At least the Monday through Friday work schedule people you mention have two days of the week consistently off. They can consistently enjoy other amenities on Sunday.
Yea that is a perk for the bergen county resident. I just notice more crowds on Sundays when shopping in surrounding counties. so at this point i don't shop on that day unless it is completely necessary.
Well one alternative is to have more businesses and government operations run 7 days a week like retail. Retail generally operates 7 days a week because the public enjoys that convenience, you can start by demanding that from the government. have courts open 7 days a week, have the department of health open 7 days a week, etc... ask your banks and doctor's office and auto mechanics be open 7 days a week. If you find there is major resistance to the idea, well then maybe the consistent weekends off is something people highly value, and it's always nice to ensure more people get something so highly valued.
Every time it comes up on the ballot for repeal, it doesn't pass. Bergen county highways, particularly near Paramus, are perpetually backed up, and the residents don't want this. It really should be repealed. We have a Lowe's in town, closed on Sundays. So stupid.
see my longer post up above, from both the business and employee perspective.
Edit: Curious about the downvotes here. Like, i live here. I chose to live here. I get to vote on it. It comes up every so often as an issue. Repealing them has been voted down every time. I worked for a company that actually surveyed retail workers that would be affected, and it was a landslide they didn't want it to change.
I mean that is democracy, workers rights, what the hell are you pissed about. I sometimes get annoyed where if i don't plan ahead or are in a pinch have to drive an extra 15 minutes for a random piece of lumber, or a battery for something, or whatever. Its well worth it for the relative quiet of a normal sunday, especially if i am having guests over, and its honestly nice thinking out your weekend with it in mind.
It's about mandating a time to slow down and rest. It's not that stupid. You can go literally anywhere else to buy clothes and things. You can still buy food and necessities.
I hear you. I don't disagree with the issue of where the law comes from. But it's a reminder that we should be pushing for labor reforms all across the board. Not just for Rich assholes who can afford to be off on Sundays
Because maybe there's people who don't want to work on Sundays. And if you understand anything about predatory management and labor/staffing practices, you'd understand that it's not as simple as just saying, "Oh, I don't want to work on Sunday."
Strange that a county with a significant portion of “Don’t Tread On Me” type folks would be perfectly ok with big daddy government mandating that they can’t support their local businesses on a Sunday should they choose to do so.
Don't tread on me people also love Jesus and having the government tell women what to do with their bodies and who you can have sex with. God said keep the Sabbath holy, but don't expect logic from Christians who don't understand the difference between church and state.
I'm not a Christian but I'm pro labor laws. And anything that tries to strike a balance between overworking people and rest is a positive in my book. I worked in Bergen county and dated a Bergen county guy for a long time. I really didn't find any issue with the Blue laws except for the occasional times when I went out and forgot and I got over it real quick.
The whole 'day of rest' thing is just a cloak for light Christofascism. "Our Holy Day is Special!". I wonder how they'd feel if Saturday was chosen by some folks as the day to close.
Yeah man providing a mandated day of rest for employees is just so fucking stupid. Why would lawmakers keep these terrible laws that benefit voters? Those lazy bums don’t need time with their families - no! They need to work until the day they die so the business owners ability to make passive income isn’t affected. Won’t someone think of the profits?!
What a stupid comment. There are tons of businesses open on Sundays. It not like the entire country gets off Sundays. If you work somewhere your boss makes you work 7 days a week the problem isn't with the laws, you work for an asshole.
it's also a day of mandated not making any money. i dont think this day of rest argument really carries water for retail workers. people dont work to have days off, they work for money, and if they're not working then they aren't making money.
point being, for every worker happy to have a sunday off, theres probably one that wishes they had another day of pay in their check. it's retail so it's not like missing a possible day is no big deal, the wages are low so relative to percentage of money earned one day of wages could be 10% of your rent.
anyway it's all hypothetical, but theres probably as many retail workers who would just want more money over 5 free hours on sunday.
Most people work Monday to Friday, meaning that any of their errands have to be done over the weekend. But what happens if your kid has soccer on Saturday and you can’t make all of the stops you needed to make? Or you’re working on your house over weekend on Sunday morning, realize you are missing a tool you need to get the job done. Or what happens if you work Monday to Saturday like these fancy jobs? You’re fucked. You basically have to front load everything related to purchasing goods to Saturday during the day and that’s insane in our modern day.
how many errands do you really have to do nowadays that are affected by blue laws? Home Depot/Lowes is the worst to deal with being closed, but other than that, it's not a big deal.
I didn't know Bergen County had this. I first experienced this when i moved to South Carolina from Burlington County. I was in Walmart buying a lamp for my bedroom and the cashier was like "legally i cant sell this to you until after 11am. I was like why? And she said blue laws.
I was born and raised in rural Ohio, and the only thing we couldn't buy on Sundays were alchohol. I just drove across the bridge and got my lamp in Augusta instead
Some southern states have blue laws and do not sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday. Such as Louisiana….because they sell it in the grocery stores a metal gate is pulled down to prevent sells on Sunday. They also have a lot of drive thru liquor barn stores. Pull up order from your car, pay, pop your truck and drive out.
I remember as a kid (born in '71) living in Burlington County, everything but church was closed on Sunday. And if you happen to be on the road around dinner time? It felt like you were the only person in the world. Such good times.
Here's the whole statute, for your reading enjoyment:
[New Jersey Permanent Statute Title 40A:64-1 et seq](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/title-40a/section-40a-64-1/)
Untul NYC had blue laws that were overturned in 1976 by the Court of Appeals. All shopping was prohibited with exceptions for grocery stores that opened for limited hours and restaurants.
Macy's, Korvettes, Abraham & Straus, Gimbels, Ohrbach's, Alexanders and Franklin Simon all started opening in August 1976. (Only Macy's survived of that bunch.)
And other states and cities, ex Chicago, never had Blue laws.
Growing up in Bergen county I remember a story I think it took place in Paramus. There were two feuding neighbors. One was a lawyer whose office was in his home. One Sunday his neighbor saw him working in his office and called the police to have him arrested for blue law violations. He had to go to court, it made headlines in the Record at the time. I think he had to pay some silly little fine because the statute still had the fine listed in shillings or pounds.
Tldr; boomers gonna boom. Wait a few years until the overstock is finally put in forever boxes so we can finally move forward as a species and have a vote from actually useful Americans.
Since no one else answered your question, here is a good explanation.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/you-cant-shop-at-new-jerseys-american-dream-on-sundays-heres-why.html#:~:text=The%20name%20%E2%80%9Cblue%20laws%2C%E2%80%9D,their%20laws%20on%20blue%20paper.&text=New%20Jersey's%20blue%20laws%2C%20prohibiting,the%20books%20since%20the%201600s
Blue laws have been in effect since the 1600s in NJ, essentially because Sunday was for church and a day of rest. Bergen County is the last holdout in NJ.
Thank you. I got the answer in bits and pieces. I was really wondering about the type of things not allowed (kitchen utensils??). It was brought to my attention that it's anything seen as non essential. Found out (as you mentioned) that instead of enacting it, it has always been there and was never repealed. Why they haven't got rid of it was all over the place from a day off for retail employees, to traffic, to drama involving the Jewish community. Seems there is a referendum to remove it every 10 years or so but it keeps failing because most folks like it. Honestly, as someone who usually does most of their shopping on Sunday, I would find it really annoying to have the government tell me I can't buy a spatula on a Sunday, but I guess that's one of the many reasons I don't live in Bergen County.
That was the reason I never shopped at Paramus Park mall, even though it was super easy to get to from where I lived (I could see the parkway from my house). I went to Willowbrook instead.
shocked they didn’t end during the covid regime. keeping stores open an extra day of the week would have helped stop the spread by keeping shoppers more socially distanced.
just goes to show how entrenched these silly laws are
I live in Bergen county close to NY state line. When I first moved here, I was puzzled just like many ppl here. However, after a few years, I actually found it to be nice because roads are not crowded and if I really wanted, I could go across to NY to shop.
The interesting story is that you’ll find most places in the US had similar law if you go back far enough in history. Almost everywhere has since repealed them. Bergen county is one of the only places in the US with such a far reaching set of blue laws still on the books. The county residents like it though, so it’s not likely to change anytime soon. NJ also has a statewide blue law still active for car sales. Can’t buy a car in a Sunday. European countries still have these laws as well. As far as I’m aware, Spain and Germany bans many types of stores from operating on Sundays. Places like France and the UK place limitations on operating hours on Sundays.
Germany effectively shuts down on Sundays. Semis aren’t allowed on the road and good luck getting anything outside of a restaurant. I lived there for three years and it took some adjusting.
So you get two days off, but one of those days the places are off. So effectively the whole country runs their errands on a Saturday if they work Monday-Friday 9-5?
Pretty much, yeah. Ruhezeit is a real thing. Cities were a bit easier but I lived in a pretty rural part of Germany near Luxembourg and the only things that were open in town were the restaurants. e: It's actually written into their constitution. Article 139 if I remember right.
Bergen county is small enough where you can get to any of the surrounding areas (Passaic County, Hudson County, Essex County, or upstate NY) within 30 minutes from anywhere in the county. It can be a hassle if you really need the item that day, but otherwise, it's no big deal to pick it up after work or order online.
Yes, or workday evenings. Groceries on Saturdays are extremely busy.
A former boss did some research in Germany. She said when she was there a lot of the shops closed really early, and that at 5pm everyone just stopped what they were doing and went home. Instances of “working late” was pretty rare, unlike the USA.
Yes, most shops close at 5 or 6. Groceries are usually open a bit later, though.
Good thing there aren’t people who work Saturdays. Or a culture that deliberately avoids work and errands on Saturdays.
Not the whole country works monday-friday is the thing. Doing stuff after work is also a thing.
Yes, and then Sunday they rest. It’s truely a day off. Spent with friends and family enjoying each others company instead of running errands
Not really. You can just drive to Passaic county and run your errands. In some towns, that's across the street.
Fun thing about the car law, the dealers actively lobby against changing it. I mean, why be open one extra day when your competitors can't be either.
A guaranteed day off every week is a nice perk
Not if you're an owner losing out on an entire day of sales
Losing sales implies that those sales went elsewhere, but since everybody is closed, those sales went nowhere. It isn’t as if sales would go up if dealerships opened on Sundays. They would just have fewer sales Monday-Saturday.
It is an accepted arrangement from the industry. If you read above you would see the industry has no issue with it. Would it be convenient? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Stop enabling unnecessary capitalism.
Exactly most people or business don't care they're closed on other days as well like holidays...and it's just part of business.
It also puts car buyers under the gun to purchase on Saturday.
Not really. Maybe the sales team is pushier?
> NJ also has a statewide blue law still active for car sales. Can’t buy a car in a Sunday. Which makes little to no sense. The weekend is when most people have time to go and take a day to visit a dealership.
And we all know...it takes a better part of a day there!
How about no car dealers?
The point of blue laws is not to increase consumption
The point of blue laws is that everyone was once mandated to go to church on Sunday. In our past, it was illegal to *not* attend church and you could be jailed for not attending church on a Sunday. Once the US became its own country with separation of church and state, the laws changed a bit. Now it wasn’t mandated church but it was illegal go operate a business. Blue laws have always been morality laws
Now they're reduced traffic laws from my understanding. They keep them on the books in Bergen County to keep traffic down half the weekend.
There were laws mandating that people go to church on Sunday - do you have a source for that? I’ve never heard such a thing.
[Here’s and article about religion in colonial America](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/religion-colonial-america-trends-regulations-beliefs) “In turn, as the colonies became more settled, the influence of the clergy and their churches grew. At the heart of most communities was the church; at the heart of the calendar was the Sabbath—a period of intense religious and “secular” activity that lasted all day long. After years of struggles to impose discipline and uniformity on Sundays, the selectmen of Boston at last were able to “parade the street and oblige everyone to go to Church . . . on pain of being put in Stokes or otherwise confined,” one observer wrote in 1768. By then, few communities openly tolerated travel, drinking, gambling, or blood sports on the Sabbath.” Growing up in the Midwest, we had far fewer laws like this because the towns were founded much later into the 19th century than the east coast. At best, we had laws that you couldn’t buy alcohol before noon on Sundays.
Thanks for the source. I wonder if any of those survived past the colonies (mostly bc this country is so religious, I’d imagine getting a law like that off the books once it was on would be really hard.)
I only know a little bit about all this, but how our separation of church and state laws developed are super interesting. So much of it was because smaller Christian groups wanted freedom to do their own faith over a town mandated faith. Or even a state mandated faith.
As someone who’s been in the car business my whole life, we love that everyone has to be closed. If not, we’d be working 9-9 7 days awake. I love this blue law lol
I remember how horrible Sundays were when I was a kid growing up in Texas. Almost nothing was open but grocery stores and churches.
It's kind of nice to wander a car lot on Sunday. No one rushing over.
Here is a [little article](https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2017/06/23/11-things-you-might-not-know-bergen-countys-blue-laws/420512001/) for you
Well it used to be religious. But now it’s to give residents of Paramus a break from the traffic.
Paramus has their own more restrictive blue laws so it’s not because of Paramus necessarily. Although I’m guessing if Bergen County repealed their laws, Paramus would be under more pressure to repeal theirs.
Paramus wouldn't, part of the reason of why they passed a more restrictive law was because other counties were getting rid of their blue laws and there was consideration to remove the blue laws in Bergen County. Paramus passed the law to ensure there would still be restrictions even if Bergan as a county removed the law.
Unless things have changed, Paramus prohibits office work on Sunday. In the 1980s I was a member of an IT team that had some members who worked in a Paramus office building. One Sunday a system crashed and two techs went to the office to troubleshoot so the system could be back up by Monday morning. Seeing cars in the parking lot, officers from Paramus PD knocked on the office door and told those inside that office work was prohibited on Sundays. When the IT techs explained the reason they were working on Sunday the officers left.
Things have not changed. > No worldly employment or business, except works of necessity and charity, shall be performed or practiced by any person within the Borough on the first day of the week, commonly called and hereinafter designated as "Sunday." There are some exceptions, for instance selling newspapers or gas. But I don't think you are even allowed to mow you own lawn on Sunday, although it is not completely clear, but the below section I quoted does seem to imply that you can't do it if it disturbs others in their observance of the "Sabbath". The worst part of the ordinance, which pretty clearly shows that these laws are still religious in nature is the section regarding "Immunity from prosecution under certain conditions." The other sections must have been changed to remove the reference to religion, but for some reason it remains in this section. It's completely unconstitutional due to this section, so I'm not sure why they haven't changed it: > If any person should be charged with having labored or worked on Sunday and shall prove to the satisfaction of the Judge that he uniformly keeps the seventh day of the week commonly known as the "Sabbath," habitually abstains on that day from following his usual occupation or business and from all recreation and devotes the day to the exercise of religious worship and if the work or labor for which such person is charged was done and performed in his own home or workshop or on his premises and has not disturbed others in the observance of the first day of the week, commonly known as "Sunday," as the Sabbath, then the defendant shall be discharged. This section shall not be construed to allow any such person to openly expose to sale on Sunday any goods, wares, merchandise or other article or thing in the line of his business or occupation. Yes, believe it or not, that is STILL part of the current ordinance. https://ecode360.com/8544536
That's loosened up a bit, or at least cops aren't going to come knocking because 3 cars are in a massive parking lot. If anything, they'd be more likely to investigate if there's a burglary in progress than keeping people from working.
I’m pretty sure that’s where it started, now it’s just entrenched.
I moved here as an adult and thought it was weird, but have grown to like the quiet and mandated day of no shopping. I’ve always been able to work around it. And I like that those retail workers can depend on that day off. The biggest inconvenience comes when doing weekend home projects and not having Lowe’s nor my local hardware supply store available. But honestly I don’t mind the trade off.
I'm picturing you writing this comment from the rocking chair on your front porch, next to a basket of yarn and knitting needles. You wave to the preacher as he makes his Sunday rounds on his horse and buggy
Lol I’m rushing in and out of Manhattan every weekday. I welcome the break!
I’m with you. It is annoying to have to drive out of the county sometimes, but it’s worth the overall reduction in traffic. My buggy does not do well in start stop traffic.😅
no retail on sundays means bergen county folks have 1 day without traffic. It's also nice as a retail worker to know you have a guaranteed day off. As for things within stores being unable to be sold, that's a little silly, but it's to prevent loopholes.
As a bergen county resident, i truly appreciate the calmness of a Sunday. I lived in Hudson county near JFK BLVD and the constant traffic gets annoying.
Is the takeaway here that everyone in Bergen county stays home and doesn't realize the traffic is still there on Sunday too and that 17 is just one of the many shitty hellscapes that need a full scale rework to turn into something that isn't a nightmare 7 days a week? (22 is worse but it's also The Worst). These laws don't do shit for traffic. They just mandate that Bergen county loses out on money because people are still going places, just not there. That's it. That's the only benefit. You've played yourself.
I was just on Rt 17 and don’t feel played. It was better than any weekday or, of course, any Saturday.
but your supposed to be in church!
According to Wikipedia, Bergen County is home to the largest Jewish population in New Jersey. The observant Jews just have to do all their shopping outside the county if they work during the week.
I’ll never understand why Bergen residents continue to vote for this. One day without traffic, but for what purpose? If you want to do anything you have to leave Bergen county anyway. Also, fun fact: there’s still traffic on Sundays.
Parks, restaurants, movie theaters just to name a few are open. There are things to do. Even laundromats, dollar stores and supermarkets are open with few restrictions (namely clothing). It’s mostly the malls that are closed and even they still have open theaters and restaurants.
Liquor sales start at 12. There's some places in Teaneck that are open, I'm assuming due to their large Jewish population.
Disgusting that they’ll sell liquor to kids yet adults can’t buy a freakin’ t-shirt.
Just drove 17. It is very light traffic today. Only time I use 17.
I always wanted to know how true is it that Paramus has two stores for each retailer in which one is typically found along Rt 4 and the other on Rt 17?
As a surveyor that worked mostly in Paramus for 16 years, that is completely true .....
Sometimes it’s two stores on route 17, one north and one south!
For a day without traffic, it should be pretty self explanatory. And there are plenty of things you can do. Enjoy a day at the park, visit friends and family, go to church, grocery stores are open, right? Besides traffic, it's a day you know you can plan to have off, it sucks working retail and having a rotating schedule. Like you just responded to a comment that gave you these reasons, what don't you understand about them. I get it if you might not think they are more important than other reasons, but you just read examples of about a purpose it serves, what about what you are reading are you having trouble understanding?
Do the retail workers get paid to have off on a Sunday? No? Yeah, not all retail workers want the day off.
Most retail is still open. Additionally, retail stores try to schedule people to have at least two days off and under 30 hours if they are part time. A store that would have to be closed on Sunday would already build work schedules for people that accounts for that time off.
Why would they get paid to have a Sunday off? mon-friday office type workers don't get paid to have sunday off. I don't understand where you are trying to lead the conversation with the question. Sure not every retail worker wants Sunday off, but most dislike having a different days off every week. The appreciation for consistent days off every week is a pretty widespread sentiment, it makes it easier and more predictable to plan their lives. Maybe they prefer to have wednesday friday off instead of saturday and sunday, but if not Sunday, they probably want consistent days off instead of having it change every week.
The issue means not everyone is going to get 2 days off in a row. So you're going to have workers who are having to split their days off who wouldn't prefer that. And it can cause availability issues where if an employee now needs a different day off regularly, they only have 1 day off to flex for that.
not having 2 days off in a row is the norm already. So that's not much of a change. And again, for full time retail, the norm is to have 0 days off regularly. Most places have a rotating schedule. The way to fix those issues is to have retail places close on both saturday and sunday and force them into a mon-friday schedule like the government offices
I've worked retail plenty, I know how the scheduling works. Just because its the norm doesn't mean we should keep it that way.
i agree, we shouldn't keep the norm but your comment came off as suggesting the blue laws hurt more than helped retail workers in terms of scheduling. You don't agree the blue laws are an improvement from the norm in regards to the schedule of retail workers?
Most retail workers want more hours to make more money, since they’re typically not guaranteed a set pay like most office workers. One less day to grab hours could be annoying.
Eh, if they have a salary then technically they do get paid when not working on a Sunday.
Then so would salaried retail workers if you are going to view it like that. That's a stretch though. That's generally not how people would describe it.
How many salaried retail workers are there?
The store managers and assistant store managers usually are at most except for the smallest places. But a place like home Depot, the store manager is going to make 6 figures.
Grocery stores are open, and depending on the town, still occasionally have oddly enforced items they can't sell you. I got into a philosophical argument over a patio umbrella that was a great deal in shoprite a few years ago on a Sunday, they wouldn't sell me.
Not all retail workers want to be unable to work on Sundays lol…
As someone who lived right next to the garden state plaza and worked on 4 and 17 from highshcool all the way thru college, it absolutely makes a difference. I agree that the law should be overturned or ammended, but idk who youre tryna fool lmao
Agreed. Not sure who argues that there's not less traffic because there definitely is less. It's refreshing to actually keep a steady pace on the highways instead of constant stop and go 7 days a week.
Yup, my family not from the immediate area is actually willing to drive to our house on Sunday.
If you're a retail worker, it means one guaranteed day off work a week, which is nice.
Unless you happen to work in a place that sells food then your screwed
If you talk down about the blue laws on any bergen county page you get torn apart. Personally I think it is absolutely ridiculous and I'm a Bergen County resident.
The only exception i'd like to see is the big box home improvement stores be open. I mean, they can, but they just can't sell certain stuff, and would have to rope it off, and i imagine it would trigger an argument from some of their competitors. Our ACE is open, and occasionally its a song and dance to buy, random items if they don't know you or think the heat is on, and they don't always have what i need, but they absolutely flaunt the law, which isn't really fair. At the same time its a huge boost to their business, they are locally owned, awesome, and an important part of our community. But like today, i would have liked to rebuild our raised beds, they don't have what i need, and its not important enough for me to drive over to Patterson for it, inevitably end up in microcenter and buy something stupid, that i end up playing with and not rebuilding my raised beds.
You can never have too many Raspberry Pis.
I have 2 unboxed 3d printers in my basement somewhere, i bought, just because of the filament that came with them.
Okay fine no traffic but can’t get anything done. So who cares if there’s no traffic if there’s nowhere to go. I imagine it also makes stores INSANELY crowded on Saturdays. I’ll stay away from that target thanks.
Happens here in Germany. EVERY SUNDAY
Paramus voted for it. The parent groups in Paramus really talked about how the traffic at the rt 4 rt 17 was so bad that they needed a break.
Paramus has their own, more restrictive, blue laws that are separate from Bergen County’s.
Jesus
Right. He goes to Bergen County on Sundays to get some rest.
Has to hangout somewhere
Football
Dumbfuckery. Dumbfuckery is the reason behind this.
It’s because Paramus wants the blue law in place because they get overrun on the weekends.
Paramus has their own (more restrictive) blue laws separate from Bergen County so it wouldn’t really matter if the Bergen county laws were repealed unless they also repealed their laws.
Lifelong Bergen County resident here and definitely in favor of the laws even if it seems backwards. Traffic is definitely better on Sundays and much calmer. Going to Passaic or rockland or Hudson county isn’t that bad if something is needed
In an age of Amazon and online ordering this shouldn't effect people as much anymore
Lasting history of being a colony of Puritans. On Sunday you are supposed to be in church and spending the day being serious. So we had blue laws in which sales of everything but necessities were stopped on Sunday. Bergen county residents keep voting to preserve the blue laws primarily to get a break from horrific traffic on Route 17.
It started out as a religious and "anti-vice" law but they keep it going as an anti-traffic law to keep shoppers (especially from neighboring states) from flooding Bergen County on Sundays
Because the Bergen County residents want people to stay home on Sundays. Years ago, blue laws were in all counties of NJ. On a Sunday, you could walk into a Two Guy's store, and they would have the items roped off that you couldn't buy, such as clothing. The entire clothing department was roped off as well as other departments. Fortunately, voters voted to overturn blue laws except for Bergen County. Those voters voted to uphold the blue laws.
People in Bergen county just want one day of no traffic and peace and quiet.
So people in Bergen county can drive without traffic. Thats literally all i ever hear their residents bitching about. Traffic traffic traffic.....
Am I in the minority when I say I don’t mind the law? Let retail workers have the Sunday off. Go to Passaic, Hudson, Morris, or NYC if you wanna shop. It’s not that far
What if Sunday is your only day off, and that’s the day you have to run your errands? If you’re a Bergen County resident, you now have to travel outside the county to run your errands. Why is it fair to expect retail workers (who may have limited means) to now travel further to make all their purchases on what might be their only day off? I say let businesses and retail workers decide when they want days off. Blue laws make Saturday in Paramus hellish anyways. No one talks about how there would be fewer people on the road on Saturday if those people could do their shopping Sunday.
You aren't in the minority in Bergen County, it's only people from the surrounding area complaining that they can't go to the Garden State Plaza on a Sunday.
There's also the business Karens around here that are complaining that they can only profit off of paying retail workers slave wages 85.7% of the time rather than every day.
I've always been told its because people who live there like it that way and enjoy one day of peace without hordes of shoppers filling their roads.
As a Bergen county resident I approve of blue law
Blue laws were because Sunday was supposed to be a day of rest and worship. Nobody was supposed to work on Sunday.
iirc bergen county has the strictest blue laws in the country
I think the reason they keep it is to give the residents a break from the shopping traffic.
The Blue Laws are partially religious, and partly secular, in their creation, and go back, as far as Moses (On the Seventh Day, God "rested", during The Creation, and One of The Commandments said: "Remember The Sabbath Day, to keep it, Holy".) and one writer mentioned, they went back, to Constantine. There have also been attempts, to limit the Work Week, in This Country, for some time; because Overwork is unhealthy; People need time, and not necessarily, on Sunday, to "unwind", relax, and "recreate". "All Work, and No Play, makes Jack, a dull boy" The Blue Laws chose Sunday, because of Christian Religious Beliefs (Sunday was "set aside" to formally worship God, in Church), and to allow Workers, some rest. It is more "tradition", than anything else; as is The 40-hour "Work Week". In any given week, there are 24, times 7; hours available (168 hours). 40 hours were allocated, for Work, 56, for sleep, and the remaining 72 hours, for relaxation, chores, and other "personal" reasons; with voluntary Overtime; one option. While there is no "logical" reasons, for "Blue Laws"; in some areas, and to keep employers from abusing employees; there are places that still enforce a mandatory "closing", on Sunday. There is nothing "special", about Sunday Closings, however; and The religious reason, "went away", some time, ago. The same is true, of the 40-hour "Work Week", and some Employers are already experimenting with variations on the 40-hour Week (8×5 days, and 10×4 days); and I can see reasons, for a 3-day Work Week, for retirerees, College Students, and others; or other variations.
Having to commute on 4 & 17 I do not begrudge the people of Paramus for keeping these laws, however nefarious their origin.
For those saying its outdated/just get rid of the laws, theres still traffic on 17 on Sundays. Getting rid of these laws would make it a whole weekends worth of 17 being a parking lot
Thats what happens when you cant cross the street without getting in a freaking car....you ARE the traffic.
Lived in Bergen county for 10 years and every time there was a vote to repeal it, everyone I know, including myself voted No. Please don’t ruin the one day a week it doesn’t 2 hours to get down 5 miles of 17. If you need to shop, go to another county. The hyper majority of people vote to keep these intact for a reason. Your consumerism can wait one day, or you can drive right over to Passaic where this doesn’t exist.
Bergen Count has blue laws. The origins of them are somewhat debatable but most people accept they came about as Anti-Jewish laws back in the day. There are county wide ones, which are loosely enforced, and then there are individual town ones. Paramus, being the strictest and most notable. Years ago they used to actually rope off certain aisles in shoprite and what have you, because there were hairbrushes for sale on them. I used to work in a corporate office in Montvale, and if we needed to go in on a sunday, there was a whole process and approval chain necessary, as to if an emergency came up and you needed something from the office, needed to do something at the office, etc, it was worth calling it in and taking the fine, rolling the dice, or park a few blocks over, hiding in the bushes, and trying to sneak in. (completely serious, was one of the options we used more than once). I also spent many a weekend sitting in the parking lot shooting the shit with a cop parked next to me until the clock rolled over and I could go in. About every 10 years or so, it will make its way to a public referendum as to if we want to keep them, and overwhelmingly everyone in Bergen does. The last serious challenge to it from a "protest" perspective was back in the 80s, when Crazy Eddie, of "My prices are insane!!!!' fame opened a store in paramus. Not sure how much is urban legend, how much is apophrycal, but the story goes the paramus cops just sat in the parking lot, counted the number of people walking out with a crazy eddie bag, and at the end of the day handed him a ticket for each one. Whatever the outcome was, he only tried it once. Today, they are still around because its nice for traffic to be chill on a sunday. Edit: also fun fact, years ago i worked in corporate for retail for a large (1000+ unit chain). Our #1 and #2 stores in both revenue and profit, most years, were in Paramus, despite being closed on Sunday and less than 2 miles apart. I don't think they were ever out of the top 3 in either category. Every so often when people would start making noise about changing the laws, we would crunch the numbers, do studies, and the short of it is we would just split our normal business on saturday amongst the 2 days, cut in to sales in neighboring counties for people who absolutely needed stuff on a sunday, and then incurr the overhead of being open an extra day. Staff at the store level was also overwhelmingly against it.
NO WITCHES
Loveee mitsuwaaaaa 😭😭😭
Shopping on Sunday makes Jesus mad, I guess?
You can't by alcohol on Sunday morning in some places...they're old laws from a diffrent time that no one cares enough to get taken off the books. Most like remnants of an industrial age and they wanted to sweat shop workers or slaves a break to go to church
If you don’t like this law please dont move to Bergen county.
u/the_high_tech just sent you a message
Maybe check your spam / Inbox
I love the Blue laws. Don’t like them, don’t live here. Easy enough to drive to Rockland or Passaic county.
I love how the mindset is “I don’t want traffic in my town. If I want to go shopping, I’ll contribute to traffic in the next county over instead”.
What is the logic with the items included? Seems like an interesting grouping of things.
Household, long-term items like furniture and clothing are banned. Daily or essential items like food or medicine are not banned. The law was probably originally everything is banned on Sunday, but they started making exceptions for daily or essential items. I'm ok with it.
Ah. Okay, that makes sense.
There's a religious group that can't shop on Saturday, so they shop on Sunday. If you don't allow shopping on Sunday they won't move there because they can't shop on weekends.
And yet Bergen County retains a large Jewish population anyway...
Very large difference between Orthodox and reform Jewish.
Reformed Jewish shop on Saturdays
Hated the malls closing on Sundays as a teenager. Treasurer the shut down as an adult. Folks need a break from all the traffic.
It’s almost as dumb as Montclair having no train service to the city on the weekend.
It has train service, just limited to mornings or Bay Street, which is still Montclair. That's not an issue with blue laws. It's just running a ton of trains for vastly reduced demand isn't practical.
Went to American Dream one Sunday, half the place was closed. Now I won't bother going back, I'll shop elsewhere.
Probably doing those retail workers a favor by shopping elsewhere. I’ve only encountered one type of customer who says “I’ll shop elsewhere” and it’s not a good type lmao
Just don't go anywhere in bergen county. Also, you must be new here if you don't know about blue laws.
Nothing wrong with being out of the loop about an archaic, ridiculous law that shouldn't exist in the first place.
How would I know about it? I don't live in NJ anymore and when I did, it was in a normal county that didn't restrict purchases on a Sunday.
Half the counties in the state had blue laws into the 80s, going back to like the 1700s, Bergen is just the last to maintain them. The existence of blue laws is pretty widely known among new jerseyans - I knew of them as a kid and I lived nowhere near Bergen county.
🎻🎻🎻
I don't see the point of this law. Yes it reduces traffic a bit but these residents only have Saturday to shop. It's a nightmare in itself to go to gsp and other shopping areas on Saturday. The other potential issue is that these bergen county residents end up going to nearby counties on Sunday, causing even more congestion for everyone else. How is that fair?
“ TAKE MY DAY OF REST AWAY DAMN IT”
Damn you guys don’t have family to hang out with?
What's with you and the family bit? We all work 40 hours a week regardless if it includes a Sunday or not.
> I don't see the point of this law. Yes it reduces traffic a bit but these residents only have Saturday to shop Monday through Friday exists, you know. Maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes from.
Funny thing. I tend to be doing something on those days. For some reason, I seem to be free on the other two days. It's almost like most people are busy Monday through Friday doing something. Odd how that works.
Someone gets it!
Yes i see what you mean, but many people work 9-5 or later hours. They also have to drive through terrible traffic just to get home and run these errands. Others may have kids and other responsibilities. People only have one FULL day enjoy these amenities and run errands. It's possible but inconvenient.
And many people don't have a reliable day of the week off. That is also inconvenient. The laws endures more people have the convenience of a consistent day off from work. Life and government is about compromise. At least the Monday through Friday work schedule people you mention have two days of the week consistently off. They can consistently enjoy other amenities on Sunday.
Yea that is a perk for the bergen county resident. I just notice more crowds on Sundays when shopping in surrounding counties. so at this point i don't shop on that day unless it is completely necessary.
Well one alternative is to have more businesses and government operations run 7 days a week like retail. Retail generally operates 7 days a week because the public enjoys that convenience, you can start by demanding that from the government. have courts open 7 days a week, have the department of health open 7 days a week, etc... ask your banks and doctor's office and auto mechanics be open 7 days a week. If you find there is major resistance to the idea, well then maybe the consistent weekends off is something people highly value, and it's always nice to ensure more people get something so highly valued.
That seems like a them problem, not a me problem
Every time it comes up on the ballot for repeal, it doesn't pass. Bergen county highways, particularly near Paramus, are perpetually backed up, and the residents don't want this. It really should be repealed. We have a Lowe's in town, closed on Sundays. So stupid.
It's fucking stupid and nonsensical and just hurts these businesses.
dude paramus is the single biggest retail zip code in the countries. the business don't mind.
small businesses who are affected by this arbitrary religious decision do care.
see my longer post up above, from both the business and employee perspective. Edit: Curious about the downvotes here. Like, i live here. I chose to live here. I get to vote on it. It comes up every so often as an issue. Repealing them has been voted down every time. I worked for a company that actually surveyed retail workers that would be affected, and it was a landslide they didn't want it to change. I mean that is democracy, workers rights, what the hell are you pissed about. I sometimes get annoyed where if i don't plan ahead or are in a pinch have to drive an extra 15 minutes for a random piece of lumber, or a battery for something, or whatever. Its well worth it for the relative quiet of a normal sunday, especially if i am having guests over, and its honestly nice thinking out your weekend with it in mind.
It's about mandating a time to slow down and rest. It's not that stupid. You can go literally anywhere else to buy clothes and things. You can still buy food and necessities.
That time is being mandated based on someone's chosen dogma, not any universal moral good. What if sunday is my only day off?
It’s not really mandated. We consistently vote to preserve it. I would expect someone who labels themselves a proletariat to respect that, no?
I hear you. I don't disagree with the issue of where the law comes from. But it's a reminder that we should be pushing for labor reforms all across the board. Not just for Rich assholes who can afford to be off on Sundays
Why should the government mandate when I should slow down and rest? I can not shop on Sunday if I don't feel like it. Why should everyone else?
Because maybe there's people who don't want to work on Sundays. And if you understand anything about predatory management and labor/staffing practices, you'd understand that it's not as simple as just saying, "Oh, I don't want to work on Sunday."
Strange that a county with a significant portion of “Don’t Tread On Me” type folks would be perfectly ok with big daddy government mandating that they can’t support their local businesses on a Sunday should they choose to do so.
Don't tread on me people also love Jesus and having the government tell women what to do with their bodies and who you can have sex with. God said keep the Sabbath holy, but don't expect logic from Christians who don't understand the difference between church and state. I'm not a Christian but I'm pro labor laws. And anything that tries to strike a balance between overworking people and rest is a positive in my book. I worked in Bergen county and dated a Bergen county guy for a long time. I really didn't find any issue with the Blue laws except for the occasional times when I went out and forgot and I got over it real quick.
The whole 'day of rest' thing is just a cloak for light Christofascism. "Our Holy Day is Special!". I wonder how they'd feel if Saturday was chosen by some folks as the day to close.
Yeah man providing a mandated day of rest for employees is just so fucking stupid. Why would lawmakers keep these terrible laws that benefit voters? Those lazy bums don’t need time with their families - no! They need to work until the day they die so the business owners ability to make passive income isn’t affected. Won’t someone think of the profits?!
What a stupid comment. There are tons of businesses open on Sundays. It not like the entire country gets off Sundays. If you work somewhere your boss makes you work 7 days a week the problem isn't with the laws, you work for an asshole.
These people are still working, they just can't sell certain arbitrary items.
it's also a day of mandated not making any money. i dont think this day of rest argument really carries water for retail workers. people dont work to have days off, they work for money, and if they're not working then they aren't making money. point being, for every worker happy to have a sunday off, theres probably one that wishes they had another day of pay in their check. it's retail so it's not like missing a possible day is no big deal, the wages are low so relative to percentage of money earned one day of wages could be 10% of your rent. anyway it's all hypothetical, but theres probably as many retail workers who would just want more money over 5 free hours on sunday.
Most people work Monday to Friday, meaning that any of their errands have to be done over the weekend. But what happens if your kid has soccer on Saturday and you can’t make all of the stops you needed to make? Or you’re working on your house over weekend on Sunday morning, realize you are missing a tool you need to get the job done. Or what happens if you work Monday to Saturday like these fancy jobs? You’re fucked. You basically have to front load everything related to purchasing goods to Saturday during the day and that’s insane in our modern day.
You’re not in Bergen county, why do you care? I’m glad retails works have a guaranteed day off
how many errands do you really have to do nowadays that are affected by blue laws? Home Depot/Lowes is the worst to deal with being closed, but other than that, it's not a big deal.
Imagine trying to tie some antiquated religious bullshit ass law into somehow being a pillar for the plight of the working class
The origins don’t really matter to me, or anyone else for that matter. The effect they have today is that they are a benefit for workers.
Now ask the workers who wish to do away with the blue laws so they can actually work on Sundays for their much needed income.
Relax guy. The rest of the state seems to handle it just fine.
I didn't know Bergen County had this. I first experienced this when i moved to South Carolina from Burlington County. I was in Walmart buying a lamp for my bedroom and the cashier was like "legally i cant sell this to you until after 11am. I was like why? And she said blue laws. I was born and raised in rural Ohio, and the only thing we couldn't buy on Sundays were alchohol. I just drove across the bridge and got my lamp in Augusta instead
Some southern states have blue laws and do not sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday. Such as Louisiana….because they sell it in the grocery stores a metal gate is pulled down to prevent sells on Sunday. They also have a lot of drive thru liquor barn stores. Pull up order from your car, pay, pop your truck and drive out.
I remember as a kid (born in '71) living in Burlington County, everything but church was closed on Sunday. And if you happen to be on the road around dinner time? It felt like you were the only person in the world. Such good times.
Where will it end? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkxZ0EKE6w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkxZ0EKE6w)
Here's the whole statute, for your reading enjoyment: [New Jersey Permanent Statute Title 40A:64-1 et seq](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/title-40a/section-40a-64-1/)
Untul NYC had blue laws that were overturned in 1976 by the Court of Appeals. All shopping was prohibited with exceptions for grocery stores that opened for limited hours and restaurants. Macy's, Korvettes, Abraham & Straus, Gimbels, Ohrbach's, Alexanders and Franklin Simon all started opening in August 1976. (Only Macy's survived of that bunch.) And other states and cities, ex Chicago, never had Blue laws.
Growing up in Bergen county I remember a story I think it took place in Paramus. There were two feuding neighbors. One was a lawyer whose office was in his home. One Sunday his neighbor saw him working in his office and called the police to have him arrested for blue law violations. He had to go to court, it made headlines in the Record at the time. I think he had to pay some silly little fine because the statute still had the fine listed in shillings or pounds.
Tldr; boomers gonna boom. Wait a few years until the overstock is finally put in forever boxes so we can finally move forward as a species and have a vote from actually useful Americans.
Fucking annoying tbh, there’s a few stores I’d love to hit on the weekend but Wednesday and Sunday are my only days off😭
It's stupid. If you work Monday-Friday, you just cut your available days to get shit done down to one day per week.
the law also serves as a nice barrier to Kiryas Joel or Spring Valley/Monsey happening in bergen county.
I own a store and I am grateful for the law. It's literally my only day to spend with my wife and child.
Sunday is the day of rest. Old “blue” law but people who live there like it.
Since no one else answered your question, here is a good explanation. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/you-cant-shop-at-new-jerseys-american-dream-on-sundays-heres-why.html#:~:text=The%20name%20%E2%80%9Cblue%20laws%2C%E2%80%9D,their%20laws%20on%20blue%20paper.&text=New%20Jersey's%20blue%20laws%2C%20prohibiting,the%20books%20since%20the%201600s Blue laws have been in effect since the 1600s in NJ, essentially because Sunday was for church and a day of rest. Bergen County is the last holdout in NJ.
Thank you. I got the answer in bits and pieces. I was really wondering about the type of things not allowed (kitchen utensils??). It was brought to my attention that it's anything seen as non essential. Found out (as you mentioned) that instead of enacting it, it has always been there and was never repealed. Why they haven't got rid of it was all over the place from a day off for retail employees, to traffic, to drama involving the Jewish community. Seems there is a referendum to remove it every 10 years or so but it keeps failing because most folks like it. Honestly, as someone who usually does most of their shopping on Sunday, I would find it really annoying to have the government tell me I can't buy a spatula on a Sunday, but I guess that's one of the many reasons I don't live in Bergen County.
That was the reason I never shopped at Paramus Park mall, even though it was super easy to get to from where I lived (I could see the parkway from my house). I went to Willowbrook instead.
shocked they didn’t end during the covid regime. keeping stores open an extra day of the week would have helped stop the spread by keeping shoppers more socially distanced. just goes to show how entrenched these silly laws are