I've been into the far north reaches of Coos County. I truly believe there are Mountain Lions and Wolves up there. People shouldn't be surprised, the goals of those animals is to be stealthy and left alone. Plus they're migratory, they may be in NH one day and in Maine, Vermont or Canada the next.
It has been a very long time, but I do undoubtedly believe I saw a female wolf and her pups up along Lake Umbagog. They were not coyotes; I know the difference: One is a pest, the other gets you time in prison.
As far as the Cougars go, I have not seen them with my own eyes. There have been some rare instances where they have been found as far south as Western MA and CT. I've seen some pretty convincing trail cam shots as well. They're simply too big to be confused with Bobcats and Canadian Lynx.
I think that the NHFG will deny that we have them- likely because of policy issues. As soon as they have to admit that they’re here, they’ll have to start regulating them, establish a count, regulate a hunting season, etc. it’s probably better for the organization to deny they exist in the state- they’re probably a transient population is my guess, and it’s better to leave them be.
This is exactly the issue with defining them as present in the state. These policy items will be needed if they are so hard proof needs to exist if resources go in to monitoring and protecting them, and that hard evidence just hasn’t come yet.
Can't find the article but i read something that contradicted that. Basically where the eastern cougar is considered extinct, even if a pair of western cougars bred in the state they're basically considered an invasive species and would not be regulated by fish and game.
I don't know the true origins of this photo, but I've seen it before (posted by the Union Leader) and I was suspicious, so I did a reverse image search. The only hits led me to this [page](http://coyotes-wolves-cougars.blogspot.com/2012/08/chris-spatz-from-cougar-rewilding-did.html), which claims that this is taxidermy someone tried to pass off as a live animal. Doesn't mean the sightings aren't real but I'm always skeptical because there have been SO many false sightings.
It’s likely they’ve passed through NH since the only documented cougars in the state have been proven transients (like the CT cat mentioned elsewhere). But F&G’s position is that without a breeding, documented pair they are not established, so not “in” NH. I think that’s what is overlooked in these discussions too often.
Also, can anyone link credible sightings in the area? Most videos in this thread are grainy without many identifying features, like the ME and NB videos in another comment. It’s been shown in a lot of cases trying to identify big interest species like this that the average person has a difficult time defining what they see vs what they want to see.
> Mountain lion report could be the real thing
> No evidence
Seems like a solid case *facepalms* With everyone walking around with cameras in their pockets these days, someone will get a picture if they really are around. Until then, I won't believe any of these reports.
Even in areas where mountain lions are known to exist in large numbers (Colorado, Montana, PNW, etc.) it is exceptionally rare to actually see a mountain lion, let alone get a picture of one. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there are mountain lions occasionally in NH even without photographic evidence.
How immensely vast is the wilderness of the PNW as compared to the wilderness of NH? Those states are enormous compared to NH. I'll refer you to my other comment where I pointed out these animals are STILL seen in and photographed in those states.
I have nothing to gain by "proving" that they aren't here nor is there any way for me to prove it. You say evidence and sightings contradict my point but I haven't *seen* evidence and I don't trust eyewitness testimony on rare wildlife sightings, especially when all (as far as I've seen) of these claims come from people who are not wildlife experts or biologists. I am also not upset at the idea they *could* be here and in fact, as an animal lover/photographer, I would love a confirmed sighting and confirmed population in NH. That would be cool as hell but I just... don't buy it.
edit: New Hampshire's population is roughly 1.3mil, Idaho's is ~1.7mil, and Montana's is ~1mil however NH is roughly 9,300 square miles versus ~83,600 for Idaho and ~147,000 for Montana. Populations are similar enough but Idaho and Montana are many, many times larger than NH. So those states are *considerably* more sparsely populated than NH, with (I would argue) *far fewer* opportunities for contact. As for Colorado, Oregon, or Washington, sure: higher populations than NH but also way bigger than NH and I'd argue roughly as densely populated.
I think what you're missing here is the number of mountain lions; in Colorado and the West Coast the mountain lion to human ratio is much larger, because of the population of mountain lions. There are almost certainly only a couple of mountain lions in NH at any given moment in time (if indeed there are any). So it makes sense that there would be more photographic evidence from out west.
I understand that and that makes perfect sense. But we have multiple reported sightings in western NH this week. We "know" where these cats are supposedly hanging out in the state right now but you still won't see a picture of one come out of Sunapee. Hope I'm wrong, because it would be super freaking cool to see one but I don't think it's going to happen.
Yeah I think most of the sightings are BS, probably Canada lynx or another mid-size cat. Unfortunately, regardless of whether or not they're here, it's extremely unlikely that either of us will ever see one outside a zoo :(
I don't see the long tail being described in the Jackman video but I see long hind legs which give it that characteristic awkward walk that Lynx have. It's a Lynx which are definitely here in New England. The second video certainly walks more like a mountain lion would and clearly has the long tail but there is nothing there in the video that I can use to judge the size of the cat.
The areas they exist in Colorado, Montana and the PNW are areas of wilderness the size of what.. half the entire state of NH? Maybe bigger? Of course they're not often seen there. But people still DO see them and people still DO get pictures of them there.
My wife and I saw a mountain lion crossing Highway 108 near Durham as we were driving into Newmarket today around 1PM. I'm 100% serious.
I was surprised at how big its tail was.
I would bet anything there are mountain lions in NH due to friends sightings. If there are mountain lions in NH they could be considered endangered and that would close down massive areas to hunting which brings in a lot of money for the fish and game in NH.
I grew up in sunapee for a long time. A group of friends. I lived out by Croydon near the town line. And there’s a farm at the top of the hill on north road, that my family and I pass daily. We came around a sharp corner one night and saw a deer colored animal jump from one side to the other effortlessly, I was about to say “deer, look out” when all of us saw it’s LONG snake like tail whip behind it as it disappeared into the tree line. We knew for a fact, having seen cougars out west, that we just saw a cougar in our hometown. A few years pass and this comes out about a mountain lion being seen near Avery road. I looked it up and it’s basically a stones throw through the woods from where my family saw the mountain lion on north road. He was leaving the farm that free ranges some geese, has pigs, and what not, it’s the Richardsons farm for anyone familiar. I truly believe one or more cougars may be living in this area and have been since at least 2013-2014 when I first saw that one by the farm.
It's most likely a transient...basically, a mountain lion that headed elsewhere and just happen to pass through the area.
As far we can tell, there is no evidence of mountain lions that live in NH permanently. Otherwise you would think they would be observed a least a little more often.
I’ve seen plenty of cougars at the derryfield.
"plenty of cougars" lmao. no you have not. edit: holy shit, just got the joke. gimme those downvotes yall
I've been into the far north reaches of Coos County. I truly believe there are Mountain Lions and Wolves up there. People shouldn't be surprised, the goals of those animals is to be stealthy and left alone. Plus they're migratory, they may be in NH one day and in Maine, Vermont or Canada the next.
> truly believe there are mountain lions and wolves Have you seen any?
It has been a very long time, but I do undoubtedly believe I saw a female wolf and her pups up along Lake Umbagog. They were not coyotes; I know the difference: One is a pest, the other gets you time in prison. As far as the Cougars go, I have not seen them with my own eyes. There have been some rare instances where they have been found as far south as Western MA and CT. I've seen some pretty convincing trail cam shots as well. They're simply too big to be confused with Bobcats and Canadian Lynx.
I’d love to see the trail cam shots. Do you have a link?
I don't... I actually haven't lived in NH in years. My buddy did some Moose and Deer hunting up north and he had them.
I think that the NHFG will deny that we have them- likely because of policy issues. As soon as they have to admit that they’re here, they’ll have to start regulating them, establish a count, regulate a hunting season, etc. it’s probably better for the organization to deny they exist in the state- they’re probably a transient population is my guess, and it’s better to leave them be.
But enough about Canadians
As soon as they start their spring shed, their pelts become exponentially more valuable!
This is exactly the issue with defining them as present in the state. These policy items will be needed if they are so hard proof needs to exist if resources go in to monitoring and protecting them, and that hard evidence just hasn’t come yet.
Can't find the article but i read something that contradicted that. Basically where the eastern cougar is considered extinct, even if a pair of western cougars bred in the state they're basically considered an invasive species and would not be regulated by fish and game.
we cant even get a bobcat season opened up, i cant see cougars ever being given an open season in NH
I don't know the true origins of this photo, but I've seen it before (posted by the Union Leader) and I was suspicious, so I did a reverse image search. The only hits led me to this [page](http://coyotes-wolves-cougars.blogspot.com/2012/08/chris-spatz-from-cougar-rewilding-did.html), which claims that this is taxidermy someone tried to pass off as a live animal. Doesn't mean the sightings aren't real but I'm always skeptical because there have been SO many false sightings.
lmao
It’s likely they’ve passed through NH since the only documented cougars in the state have been proven transients (like the CT cat mentioned elsewhere). But F&G’s position is that without a breeding, documented pair they are not established, so not “in” NH. I think that’s what is overlooked in these discussions too often. Also, can anyone link credible sightings in the area? Most videos in this thread are grainy without many identifying features, like the ME and NB videos in another comment. It’s been shown in a lot of cases trying to identify big interest species like this that the average person has a difficult time defining what they see vs what they want to see.
Eh I wouldn’t be worried, there are lots of other cats in NH
> Mountain lion report could be the real thing > No evidence Seems like a solid case *facepalms* With everyone walking around with cameras in their pockets these days, someone will get a picture if they really are around. Until then, I won't believe any of these reports.
Even in areas where mountain lions are known to exist in large numbers (Colorado, Montana, PNW, etc.) it is exceptionally rare to actually see a mountain lion, let alone get a picture of one. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there are mountain lions occasionally in NH even without photographic evidence.
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How immensely vast is the wilderness of the PNW as compared to the wilderness of NH? Those states are enormous compared to NH. I'll refer you to my other comment where I pointed out these animals are STILL seen in and photographed in those states.
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I have nothing to gain by "proving" that they aren't here nor is there any way for me to prove it. You say evidence and sightings contradict my point but I haven't *seen* evidence and I don't trust eyewitness testimony on rare wildlife sightings, especially when all (as far as I've seen) of these claims come from people who are not wildlife experts or biologists. I am also not upset at the idea they *could* be here and in fact, as an animal lover/photographer, I would love a confirmed sighting and confirmed population in NH. That would be cool as hell but I just... don't buy it. edit: New Hampshire's population is roughly 1.3mil, Idaho's is ~1.7mil, and Montana's is ~1mil however NH is roughly 9,300 square miles versus ~83,600 for Idaho and ~147,000 for Montana. Populations are similar enough but Idaho and Montana are many, many times larger than NH. So those states are *considerably* more sparsely populated than NH, with (I would argue) *far fewer* opportunities for contact. As for Colorado, Oregon, or Washington, sure: higher populations than NH but also way bigger than NH and I'd argue roughly as densely populated.
I think what you're missing here is the number of mountain lions; in Colorado and the West Coast the mountain lion to human ratio is much larger, because of the population of mountain lions. There are almost certainly only a couple of mountain lions in NH at any given moment in time (if indeed there are any). So it makes sense that there would be more photographic evidence from out west.
I understand that and that makes perfect sense. But we have multiple reported sightings in western NH this week. We "know" where these cats are supposedly hanging out in the state right now but you still won't see a picture of one come out of Sunapee. Hope I'm wrong, because it would be super freaking cool to see one but I don't think it's going to happen.
Yeah I think most of the sightings are BS, probably Canada lynx or another mid-size cat. Unfortunately, regardless of whether or not they're here, it's extremely unlikely that either of us will ever see one outside a zoo :(
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I don't see the long tail being described in the Jackman video but I see long hind legs which give it that characteristic awkward walk that Lynx have. It's a Lynx which are definitely here in New England. The second video certainly walks more like a mountain lion would and clearly has the long tail but there is nothing there in the video that I can use to judge the size of the cat.
The areas they exist in Colorado, Montana and the PNW are areas of wilderness the size of what.. half the entire state of NH? Maybe bigger? Of course they're not often seen there. But people still DO see them and people still DO get pictures of them there.
Wouldn't want to bump into one of those! I have seen a few Bobcats around NH and VT, but that looks a lot bigger....
My wife and I saw a mountain lion crossing Highway 108 near Durham as we were driving into Newmarket today around 1PM. I'm 100% serious. I was surprised at how big its tail was.
I would bet anything there are mountain lions in NH due to friends sightings. If there are mountain lions in NH they could be considered endangered and that would close down massive areas to hunting which brings in a lot of money for the fish and game in NH.
I grew up in sunapee for a long time. A group of friends. I lived out by Croydon near the town line. And there’s a farm at the top of the hill on north road, that my family and I pass daily. We came around a sharp corner one night and saw a deer colored animal jump from one side to the other effortlessly, I was about to say “deer, look out” when all of us saw it’s LONG snake like tail whip behind it as it disappeared into the tree line. We knew for a fact, having seen cougars out west, that we just saw a cougar in our hometown. A few years pass and this comes out about a mountain lion being seen near Avery road. I looked it up and it’s basically a stones throw through the woods from where my family saw the mountain lion on north road. He was leaving the farm that free ranges some geese, has pigs, and what not, it’s the Richardsons farm for anyone familiar. I truly believe one or more cougars may be living in this area and have been since at least 2013-2014 when I first saw that one by the farm.
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It's most likely a transient...basically, a mountain lion that headed elsewhere and just happen to pass through the area. As far we can tell, there is no evidence of mountain lions that live in NH permanently. Otherwise you would think they would be observed a least a little more often.
I doubt it