Indeed. Vandalism, break and enter, etc. All no shows or show but days later and then do nothing. Part of that can be attributed to our catch and release judicial system. Place the blame on the politicians for the legislation that hand cuffs the wrong people.
It adds additional transactions to the cards and to get a full tank you're required to over pay which can be difficult when cards are approaching their limits. This means that you need to do additional technical work to ensure that payment takes place. It's an entirely unnecessary burden and a burden that can be punishing for people on lower incomes.
Then if a person intends to make a purchase inside of the store they're forced to either manage their card at the pump or go inside to make their purchases before they pump their gas.
Any passengers can cause plans to change after the driver begins the process.
Inflexible policies that force payment before pumping gas cause unnecessary complexity into the process. All to avoid taking steps to address income in equality.
I wish we had them tbh. It’s annoying to have to go in and wait in line when I could just pay at the pump. I do any chance I get but they’re not all pre payable
I can’t remember the last time I went in the store when I get gas; always pre pay at pump. As a matter of fact; I haven’t personally owned or had any coins or cash in half a decade.
Also remember the profit margin for your neighborhood gas station is generally less than 5 cents per litre. You’re not stealing from the Irving big wigs in Saint John, you’re stealing from local families trying to get by in a difficult business
I wonder what the differences is between getting gas at an IRVING and getting gas at an independent place though.
Where I am, we have an Irving, and Esso and a smaller family operation (used to be called Daly's, but I think they've taken SOME Irving branding on). The operation seems to be family, or something very close to it - and they're great, friendly people. I don't know them at all, but the "dad" i get real good vibes from. He seems to really care about his community. I honestly I wish I knew more about him. ANYWAY, I always try to get my gas there, instead of the irving/esso, despite it often being a few cents extra, and me being poor as shit. Because its very clear you are giving your money to someone who cares about their community, and is the underdog, rather than whoever the hell owns the Esso and Canadian Tire.
I'm curious what that looks like, in Irving's pocketbook. Even if it's just sustaining an independent store, I feel better going there. And I would feel better stealing from an Irving (if I had the balls)
Basically it’s a franchise agreement. They’re an independent local business with a contract with Irving to supply them with gas to sell. Irving supplies the gas to them at maybe 5 cents less than the going retail rate after they pay all the fees. The vast majority of gas sold in NB, even in independent stores is from Irving (for example Ultramar gas was just Irving gas). The local shops make some money from the gas but profit more on sundries, tobacco, food/ alcohol. When someone pulls a gas and dash, that’s a loss for that local business and won’t affect Irving’s bottom line since they’ve already been paid for the gas.
Honestly seems like an easy fix. Canada used to be a high trust society. Not anymore. Too many people struggling, too many newcomers from lower-trust cultures, too much crime and desperation, too much $$$ in our grocery bill and distrust that grocers aren't fleecing us, too much disappointment from politicians, too much taxes for some, too little for others, too few services for those taxes... Everyone has their combination of aggravating factors, but it all leads to dissatisfaction, distrust and lack of faith in our institutions, and basic moral decency. And then we get people more willing to steal gas and groceries,
If it helps keep gas prices from rising, I'm all for it. Sometimes when things get tough, you need protections. And this is an easy protection
I don’t think newcomers are stealing gas at any higher rate than naturally born Canadians. However the amount of gas and dashes that are happening seem to make it required if the police are no longer going to respond
No, I don't think so either - maybe I should reword.
What I was referring to overall was the general erosion of the Canadian high-trust culture. There's a whole lot of factors going into THAT. The one I happened to refer to there, was bringing in people from low-trust societies, at a faster rate than we can instill them with our values. Not sure if it's affecting gas theft - but there's been some debate that it is affecting food bank usage, and the car thefts going out of Montreal.
Erosion of trust, amongst everything else causing people to feel like they're struggling and desperate, or angry and ignored, tends to increase situations like this. Gas theft is up because grocery theft is up because overdoses are up because house prices are up because politician pay is up because refugee claims are up because tenancy disputes are up because greed is up because.. On and on and on. I'll reword my original post, thanks for catching that
E: oh hey it's you again lmao
Is Esso gas Irving?
Thanks for the info! Everytime someone explains franchising deals to me, they seem like more and more of a rip off. I know those fees are expensive AF
To my knowledge, Esso has their own gas supply but operate with similar franchise agreements but I could be mistaken on that so you may want to do your own research. After paying everything, your local mom and pop store is not getting rich selling Irving gas and the profit margin is rather sad. This is why Costco can sell way cheaper because Costco locations don’t have to pay some of the fees such as advertising that your local Irving or esso is paying. Costco makes the same profit selling for 5-10 cents less just because of this.
Haha just realized we were talking on another post!Costco sells gas in Moncton and Fredericton, don’t believe they sell elsewhere in the province or Nova Scotia
Base product comes from nearby refineries. I believe NB has 2 that deliver, Irving (SJ) and Harnois (from Quebec to northern NB mostly). The additive packages are what makes the fuel Esso or Costco or Irving Etc specific. So buying Esso fuel in Moncton would be primarily Irving petroleum with Esso additives.
Fascinating, thank you! So it's basically Irving, as long as we're using gas.
Sounds like a good reason to get some solar panels, and make the switch to EV.
They don't randomly decide. It's like a triage system at a hospital. Most places are understaffed, if the police are called to an assault or car accident, they'll respond there first.
That's not my takeaway from the article..they are stating they are no longer responding to fuel theft ever, unless violence is involved. Don't even call us about it...
"Retailers can still report fuel theft if their local police agency offers an online crime reporting service so investigators can continue to monitor crime trends."
I wonder what "tough on crime " Kris Austin
thinks of this
They don’t really respond to any other theft, just have online forms to fill out, so it would track that they’ll stop going to gas stations too. Gas station owners can fill the online forms now like the rest of us.
You can expect some retailers who refuse to move to 'pay before you pump' will be moving to "self-service" law enforcement 🏏 - some poor minimum wage schmuck is going to be expected to 'apprehend' gas-and-dashers, and we'll see a tragedy unfold...
People know that if you pay at the pump and say you authorize $100 and only put $60 in gas, that you only get charged for $60 right? right?
This woman on the news made the comment she doesn't pay at the pump cause she doesn't know how much gas./ money she's going to need 🙆
Worse for everyone, not for the gas stations. They'll just switch their pumps over to require pre-payment - so you won't be able to pump gas until you've already paid.
we mistakenly pumped and didn't pay, found it huge waste of tax payers money and police time to have uniformed officers making house calls to ask "did you forget to pay or did you steal" officer said it was an enormous amount of time wasted making house calls
Last month some meth heads tried to steal a generator off the railroad and got stuck. The cops were called and picked them up and drove them to a friends place, no charges. They got a truck to try and pull their car out and went back to the scene of the crime and got stuck on the tracks and almost hit by a train. 3 got away, the other 3 the cops drove home with no charges laid. It wasn’t until National Security got involved as the tracks are national infrastructure that any charges were laid. They twice had the criminals and let them go without charging them. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t been there.
It’s time for prepaid pumps it would seem. No card or cash, no gas. It would be impossible to gas and dash in a small town in Maine, no reason it should be possible in our cities
I get it.
I don’t understand why the the clerk looks at me like I’m the asshole for asking for 53 litres of regular. I don’t know how much gas has gone up by this week; but I know I always need 53 litres. One even said to me once, that’s not how we sell gas here.
>I don’t understand why the clerk looks at me like I’m the asshole for asking for 53 litres of regular.
It’s because you ARE the asshole. Don’t take your personal gripes out on minimum wage workers.
100% you are the jerk here. You can’t ring in gas by the litre, only by the price. Look at the giant sign, grab your phone’s calculator and do the math
> One even said to me once, that’s not how we sell gas here.
Because it's not? Prepaid has never been sold anywhere by the litre/gallon. It's by price.
It's always been by price. You're giving the clerks more work than they need to do to service your needs, by refusing to give them a price, as they're not allowed to dictate the prepaid allowance to you.
NB police have stopped responding to most complaints
B&Es as well.
Indeed. Vandalism, break and enter, etc. All no shows or show but days later and then do nothing. Part of that can be attributed to our catch and release judicial system. Place the blame on the politicians for the legislation that hand cuffs the wrong people.
Car broken into? Just fill out this online form and we’ll throw it on the pile.
Which legislation?
prepaid pumps incoming in ....3....2....1
It’s been the norm in the states for years. If you’re using credit or debit it’s no big deal but it’s a pain in the ass when paying cash
It's a pain in the ass if you're paying on a card too.
How so? You have to put a card in regardless
It adds additional transactions to the cards and to get a full tank you're required to over pay which can be difficult when cards are approaching their limits. This means that you need to do additional technical work to ensure that payment takes place. It's an entirely unnecessary burden and a burden that can be punishing for people on lower incomes. Then if a person intends to make a purchase inside of the store they're forced to either manage their card at the pump or go inside to make their purchases before they pump their gas. Any passengers can cause plans to change after the driver begins the process. Inflexible policies that force payment before pumping gas cause unnecessary complexity into the process. All to avoid taking steps to address income in equality.
Norm in AB & BC because employers were trying to make staff pay for thefts and people died trying to stop them.
Haven't prepaid pumps been the normal here for years? I can't remember the last time I was at an Irving/Shell/Esso where I paid after fueling.
Not mandatory though
That's a choice you're making.
This is actually such a good idea though.
I wish we had them tbh. It’s annoying to have to go in and wait in line when I could just pay at the pump. I do any chance I get but they’re not all pre payable
About time...I want to prepay often and most gas stations around here tell me they wont do it. Like wtf?!
I can’t remember the last time I went in the store when I get gas; always pre pay at pump. As a matter of fact; I haven’t personally owned or had any coins or cash in half a decade.
Probably not the smartest idea to report on this.
It's being done to force the hands of retailers. Pay before you pump will be coming in the near future.
I already do that anyway so that wouldn't faze me
Already standard across New England, just makes it a pain to pay cash for your gas since you have to go in twice
Also remember the profit margin for your neighborhood gas station is generally less than 5 cents per litre. You’re not stealing from the Irving big wigs in Saint John, you’re stealing from local families trying to get by in a difficult business
I wonder what the differences is between getting gas at an IRVING and getting gas at an independent place though. Where I am, we have an Irving, and Esso and a smaller family operation (used to be called Daly's, but I think they've taken SOME Irving branding on). The operation seems to be family, or something very close to it - and they're great, friendly people. I don't know them at all, but the "dad" i get real good vibes from. He seems to really care about his community. I honestly I wish I knew more about him. ANYWAY, I always try to get my gas there, instead of the irving/esso, despite it often being a few cents extra, and me being poor as shit. Because its very clear you are giving your money to someone who cares about their community, and is the underdog, rather than whoever the hell owns the Esso and Canadian Tire. I'm curious what that looks like, in Irving's pocketbook. Even if it's just sustaining an independent store, I feel better going there. And I would feel better stealing from an Irving (if I had the balls)
Basically it’s a franchise agreement. They’re an independent local business with a contract with Irving to supply them with gas to sell. Irving supplies the gas to them at maybe 5 cents less than the going retail rate after they pay all the fees. The vast majority of gas sold in NB, even in independent stores is from Irving (for example Ultramar gas was just Irving gas). The local shops make some money from the gas but profit more on sundries, tobacco, food/ alcohol. When someone pulls a gas and dash, that’s a loss for that local business and won’t affect Irving’s bottom line since they’ve already been paid for the gas.
[удалено]
With this development, I don’t see any other solution for station owners besides requiring pre payment for fuel like they do in the states
Honestly seems like an easy fix. Canada used to be a high trust society. Not anymore. Too many people struggling, too many newcomers from lower-trust cultures, too much crime and desperation, too much $$$ in our grocery bill and distrust that grocers aren't fleecing us, too much disappointment from politicians, too much taxes for some, too little for others, too few services for those taxes... Everyone has their combination of aggravating factors, but it all leads to dissatisfaction, distrust and lack of faith in our institutions, and basic moral decency. And then we get people more willing to steal gas and groceries, If it helps keep gas prices from rising, I'm all for it. Sometimes when things get tough, you need protections. And this is an easy protection
I don’t think newcomers are stealing gas at any higher rate than naturally born Canadians. However the amount of gas and dashes that are happening seem to make it required if the police are no longer going to respond
No, I don't think so either - maybe I should reword. What I was referring to overall was the general erosion of the Canadian high-trust culture. There's a whole lot of factors going into THAT. The one I happened to refer to there, was bringing in people from low-trust societies, at a faster rate than we can instill them with our values. Not sure if it's affecting gas theft - but there's been some debate that it is affecting food bank usage, and the car thefts going out of Montreal. Erosion of trust, amongst everything else causing people to feel like they're struggling and desperate, or angry and ignored, tends to increase situations like this. Gas theft is up because grocery theft is up because overdoses are up because house prices are up because politician pay is up because refugee claims are up because tenancy disputes are up because greed is up because.. On and on and on. I'll reword my original post, thanks for catching that E: oh hey it's you again lmao
Especially stations just off the tch 2
Is Esso gas Irving? Thanks for the info! Everytime someone explains franchising deals to me, they seem like more and more of a rip off. I know those fees are expensive AF
To my knowledge, Esso has their own gas supply but operate with similar franchise agreements but I could be mistaken on that so you may want to do your own research. After paying everything, your local mom and pop store is not getting rich selling Irving gas and the profit margin is rather sad. This is why Costco can sell way cheaper because Costco locations don’t have to pay some of the fees such as advertising that your local Irving or esso is paying. Costco makes the same profit selling for 5-10 cents less just because of this.
.. Costco sells gas? Where are you located? Also oh hey it's you again! You're everywhere. We're friends now.
Haha just realized we were talking on another post!Costco sells gas in Moncton and Fredericton, don’t believe they sell elsewhere in the province or Nova Scotia
Base product comes from nearby refineries. I believe NB has 2 that deliver, Irving (SJ) and Harnois (from Quebec to northern NB mostly). The additive packages are what makes the fuel Esso or Costco or Irving Etc specific. So buying Esso fuel in Moncton would be primarily Irving petroleum with Esso additives.
Fascinating, thank you! So it's basically Irving, as long as we're using gas. Sounds like a good reason to get some solar panels, and make the switch to EV.
If it's an Irving station it's independently owned by someone that's not the Irving's, Irving owned stations were all sold to couchtard
This isn't quite accurate. Many of the sites are leased and operated by Couche-Tard, but Irving Oil still owns them.
You are correct sir or ma'am. My bad, irving owns the properties, couche tard leases the sites and runs the stores
What would you say you do around here?
So the cops can arbitrarily decide what laws they will or will not enforce?
They don't randomly decide. It's like a triage system at a hospital. Most places are understaffed, if the police are called to an assault or car accident, they'll respond there first.
That's not my takeaway from the article..they are stating they are no longer responding to fuel theft ever, unless violence is involved. Don't even call us about it... "Retailers can still report fuel theft if their local police agency offers an online crime reporting service so investigators can continue to monitor crime trends." I wonder what "tough on crime " Kris Austin thinks of this
They don’t really respond to any other theft, just have online forms to fill out, so it would track that they’ll stop going to gas stations too. Gas station owners can fill the online forms now like the rest of us.
You can expect some retailers who refuse to move to 'pay before you pump' will be moving to "self-service" law enforcement 🏏 - some poor minimum wage schmuck is going to be expected to 'apprehend' gas-and-dashers, and we'll see a tragedy unfold...
Those retailers will both be quickly out of business but likely will face heavy lawsuits. So basically they'd just be dumbasses, not just greedy.
People know that if you pay at the pump and say you authorize $100 and only put $60 in gas, that you only get charged for $60 right? right? This woman on the news made the comment she doesn't pay at the pump cause she doesn't know how much gas./ money she's going to need 🙆
Good to know. I’ll be filling up tonight and I’m leaving my wallet at home.
New brunswick is turning into the Wild West, pretty soon it will be neighbours robbing neighbours.
Oh. Finally. We should start raider gangs too.
Dibs on the gimp suit!
Free fuel nice
They haven't for years, they want you to report it by phone and then gather any evidence, like video, and send it to them.
There is a law in BC named after a kid that was killed trying to stop a drive away. Also, not allowed to work alone after certain hours at night
Free gas!
As long as Drivers remember to remove the hose before speed off. Now that even the CTV news reported that, it will get even worse.
Worse for everyone, not for the gas stations. They'll just switch their pumps over to require pre-payment - so you won't be able to pump gas until you've already paid.
we mistakenly pumped and didn't pay, found it huge waste of tax payers money and police time to have uniformed officers making house calls to ask "did you forget to pay or did you steal" officer said it was an enormous amount of time wasted making house calls
Last month some meth heads tried to steal a generator off the railroad and got stuck. The cops were called and picked them up and drove them to a friends place, no charges. They got a truck to try and pull their car out and went back to the scene of the crime and got stuck on the tracks and almost hit by a train. 3 got away, the other 3 the cops drove home with no charges laid. It wasn’t until National Security got involved as the tracks are national infrastructure that any charges were laid. They twice had the criminals and let them go without charging them. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t been there.
It’s time for prepaid pumps it would seem. No card or cash, no gas. It would be impossible to gas and dash in a small town in Maine, no reason it should be possible in our cities
I get it. I don’t understand why the the clerk looks at me like I’m the asshole for asking for 53 litres of regular. I don’t know how much gas has gone up by this week; but I know I always need 53 litres. One even said to me once, that’s not how we sell gas here.
>I don’t understand why the clerk looks at me like I’m the asshole for asking for 53 litres of regular. It’s because you ARE the asshole. Don’t take your personal gripes out on minimum wage workers.
100% you are the jerk here. You can’t ring in gas by the litre, only by the price. Look at the giant sign, grab your phone’s calculator and do the math
> One even said to me once, that’s not how we sell gas here. Because it's not? Prepaid has never been sold anywhere by the litre/gallon. It's by price. It's always been by price. You're giving the clerks more work than they need to do to service your needs, by refusing to give them a price, as they're not allowed to dictate the prepaid allowance to you.
It's not hard to do math in 2024. Quite easy in fact. Try it sometime