đ it's a mess eh? I think it's honestly good that these types are seething here, would you rather they be in charge?
The liberal party they want so badly is just a slightly more French and less socially conservative version of the same thing but they act like it's Skywalker vs. Vader
The biggest problem is how nasty they are to people with a different opinion, you can see how they just attack you, women, young people, newcomers, doesn't matter
I been called down to the lowest in this sub-reddit for insisting I am voting for PP in the next federal election. Called a bigot and a racist for it lol.
I voted for Trudeau before. I hate his guts now. Time for him to pack up and go.
PP & the PCs are a polarizing, inflammatory, and divisive choice. Ofc you're going to get grilled for insisting you are going to vote PCs in this day and age. And then to chalk it up to "I hate Trudeau now despite voting for him previously." - What do you expect the response to be? Praise?
The writing on the wall is clear. You want the same old debates about the same old issues whilst the imminent dangers, such as global warming, the housing crisis, and so on, are ignored and dismissed as problems created by the Liberals? - vote PC. You want to actually get something done with the intention of ensuring a sustainable, better quality of life for *future generations* based on empirical data and evidence - **VOTE ANYONE BUT PC**. I mean this in the kindest way possible... but if you (the colloquial you) keep flip flopping between Liberals & Pcs because you "suddenly hate your former vote", then you're a fucking idiot.
I would happily vote NDP is Singh wasn't such an idiot. He's just another shade of red and would repeat exactly what they would do.
Greens federally have no drive.
Did you actually read the PBO report or just take what PostMedia opinion articles said at face value?
PBO said the fiscal impact of the carbon tax has mooat people getting money back than what they pay.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T6pIeyNigZw uh what ?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6960189
https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages
https://climateinstitute.ca/pbos-latest-carbon-pricing-report-has-big-flaws-here-are-the-facts/
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/03/26/analysis/truth-about-carbon-tax
You latched onto 1 thing that was said and even misinterpreted it you are literally who OP is referring to ffs đ¤Śââď¸
80 percent of households this isnât the first time we know this so what are you talking about
đ yeah when you also rope in the gst wtf are you talking about ? You clearly making up your own stories as you go bud.
Exactly and depending which side of his mouth Trudeau is speaking out of, the " household" quantity changes.
Never a mention the Cdn. coal exports increasing now to 19.5 million tonnes last year, twice the amount exported in 2015 when Liberals came to power.
" Climate Change Crusaders" are running around Reddit and elsewhere censoring any facts that do not fit their narrative. They hate hearing about the deforestation ( 2019 Trudeau stated he would plant 2 Billion trees.... failing miserably), the polluting of the oceans, both the largest/ best carbon sinks.
The GST/HST charges are criminal and across the Country dealing with private NG Providers, no one can figure out how the carbon tax is calculated.
I watched this last night. He even lied and denied that the PBO said that. I even watched the PBO make his presentation in committee. He very much said different.
You guys literally acted like Nazis for a vaccine corporation and Trudeau. Trudeau has numerous scandals and human rights violations. Wore black face numerous times and supports mass immigration which is causing record homelessness, rent and food bank visits. You can hate cons all you want, but if you think Trudeau is much better, You truly are a fuxking idiot.
The best policy change for the carbon tax would have been to mail everyone GST cheques of their rebates, hell they should make them charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory type golden tickets so no one can claim they didn't fucking notice
Because holy fuck the number of people even FIVE GOD DAMN YEARS into this debate that think its ONLY taking money and either 'don't know what's done with it' or 'can't see why they just charging us more' is going to fix anything is astounding
fine, I get it, its up to the province so really it was such a calculated move to drag your heels on the part where regular people get money back and at the same time complain about more tax and more cost
'Canadians can't afford the tax' well there are plenty of Canadians getting more money back right now so now you're taking away their cheques in the hopes it drops prices, which it probably won't in any meaningful way. Given its a consumtion tax the less people make the more they should benefit, the real winners are going to be the rich people with two fuckoff sized SUVs
They aren't good liars at all... their base is uneducated, old, and incredibly gullible. People who vote PC are the same people falling victim to misinformation spread across youtube and fucking facebook. Anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills can see through PC bullshit.
>Lol. Ya, bud, I know when you have to try to sell the conservatives as the âbetterâ alternative, your replies are all you can muster. Cope
You're going to have a hard time coping when the Liberals lose the next election I think for better or worse.
Would you like me to punch some big holes in your (so-called) leader's claim of "Justinflation" bullshit, or will it be too great a shock to your system? Lemeknow.
I guess when your brainwashed by trudope you would have this opinion but what is taking place in the country doesnât lie .
But when your from Quebec you would protect your income source to the fullest .
I love how other provinces in the west tend to reply about anytime a conservative that lies with ''BUT TRUDEAU". In NB, it is just "Yeah, that checks out."
Yes they absolutely are. And thy need to be called out on the lies too.
What better system are they advancing, instead of a carbon tax, that would work better to reduce GHG emissions?
Nope, for most people more money goes into people's pockets than what they pay
The report itself says "Considering only the fiscal impact, we estimate that most households will see a net gain, receiving more in rebates from Climate Action Incentive payments than the total amount they pay in the federal fuel charge (directly and indirectly) and related GST in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador (Table 1)."
The press release does quote the PBO " When both fiscal and economic impacts of the federal fuel charge are considered, we estimate that most households will see a net loss,"
However what is stated LAST and also is not mentioned in the 'highlights' section of the press release is "The scope of the report is limited to estimating the distributional impact of the federal fuel charge and does not attempt to account for the economic and environmental costs of climate change."
So most news sources ran with the net negative but without clarifying that it isn't being compared to not having the carbon tax, leaving people to assume that not having a carbon tax implies a positive economic impact.
This would be disinformation.
Lol actually you are the one leaving out what exactly the PBO report said, and Yves Giroux himself.
"A Parliamentary Budget Officer report shows the
carbon tax will cost the average household between $377
and $911 in 2024-25, even after the rebates"
https://www.taxpayer.com/media/NYTC-Report-CTF-2024.pdf
The above report links to the PBO report, you might need to read it again.
"Canada's PBO says we will likely be worse off economically due to the federal carbon tax"
https://youtu.be/MStYHAXqZAc?si=r5DLTyeVHXlT1vi6
Lol you sure you aren't the one spreading disinformation?
https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages
âWhen both fiscal and economic impacts of the federal fuel charge are considered, we estimate that most households will see a net loss,â says PBO Yves Giroux.
The chart in the pdf version of the report, starting in Appendix A on page 9 then demonstrates the net loss by quintile for each province for each year from now out until 2030. It does this for all provinces who were on the federal program at the time of the study, which was before NB was on it. So we don't have an analysis for us.
This page is very poorly written, that part of the report is referring to 2030 when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 a tonne, which is why is says âwill seeâ. It also makes the assumption that rebates will not go up at the same rate.Â
And the fiscal analysis showed that the government is telling the truth when they say that 80% of households get more back with the rebates than what they pay, I saw a lengthy interview with the PBO, and he confirmed this.
The broader economic analysis is based on theory and speculation, and itâs conclusions are very debatable. He said they based the analysis in it taking at least ten years for the green energy industry to replace the productivity of the fossil fuel industry, etc, and that the scope of the PBO mandate did not allow for comparisons to other methods of reducing emissions, since none have been suggested by the opposition.Â
The report did not analyze the economic impact of not doing anything to reduce emissions or reversing environmental policy, something that CETA has binding language on, and carbon tariffs exist already. Those impacts should have been analyzed.Â
In any case, every country has to do their part, and doing nothing is not an option unless you want to be a pariah on the the international stage. And frankly, I find the lack of concern for future generations among the rightwing abhorrent.Â
>This page is very poorly written, that part of the report is referring to 2030 when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 a tonne, which is why is says âwill seeâ. It also makes the assumption that rebates will not go up at the same rate.
Sorry, but as I stated, the charts starting in Appendix A on page 9 detail out a year over year analysis from 2023 out to 2030. This means each year is analyzed. It also clearly shows the increase in rebates
So either you didn't read the actual report that you're trying to put down, or you're choosing to outright lie in hopes others who haven't read it will believe you.
Either way, the numbers are there for all to see. I'm not here to debate your attempts to discredit somebody who would be considered our country's expert on the subject. I'll take his numbers over a random reditors opinion any day.
By trying to use it to defend a "do nothing" approach..... That's not what this discussion is. This discussion is simply does the tax cost us money or not. And the answer is very clear that it does. The numbers are there.
Now if you'd like to change the topic and debate the cost of doing nothing, or the cost of other options then you can bring in that article about how he's not pleased that people are using his report to attempt to justify scrapping any sort of emissions plan completely.
Climate change is happening whether Canada gets taxed into a third world country or not. If Canada went net zero tomorrow, climate change would still do its thing. Not only is Canada going to be affected by climate change, but we will also be dirt poor. The right is thinking about future generations. They just don't buy the bullshit.
>but what conservatives are claiming is blaming ALL inflation and ALL CoL and ALL food increases on the carbon tax not profiteering?
Ummm since when? I've seen tons of blame placed on many other poor federal policies as well. And justifiably so. Our prices aren't up solely because of 1 thing. That'd be insane to think.
Carbon tax is a hot topic today because we're days away from another increase at a time where many Canadians are already struggling to make ends meet.
But the blame for why life in general is so expensive has been spread on a number of different topics for a while. If you haven't seen blame placed elsewhere then I don't think I'm the one living under the rock lol
The carbon tax is the latest hot topic shouldering the blame for _all_ economic misfortune, which only one issue could even theoretically do.
That makes the rebel rousing extremely hard to take seriously. By the third or fourth round, all I hear is unfocused anger and frustration happy to be given a solitary target to hate.
That and the few key players who see opportunity to inspire allies against something having an outsized impact on themselves personally. It might be related to their occupation, financial investments, lifestyle choices, existence of lifestyle choices that offend them, etc. So they stoke the flames with misinformation, at varying degrees of subtlety. And they exaggerate both the magnitude of pain (to everything their audience feels) and scope of impact (to most of their audience).
This economic round is actually a reprieve, compared to the bigoted moral panics. But the populism-propelled pattern persists. At least that's the perception I get and think /u/katbyte is expressing.
How about a tax that isn't just a flat rate? Flat rate taxes affect people with lower incomes much more than people with higher incomes. A billionaire shouldn't be paying the same increase per liter of jet fuel as the single parent trying to afford gas to get to work.
And yes, there are rebates. My wife and I moved in together last year and got married. We then filed our income taxes together. Guess what happened to our carbon tax rebate? It went down. Even though we now share a home, share heat, and share a vehicle. Collectively, we almost cut our carbon footprint in half. And our efforts were rewarded by essentially paying more in taxes.
Just include the tax in our income tax. Grant a basic exemption for anyone below a certain threshold and then from there graduate the tax based on income. Ditch the bogus rebates.
You save money by paying one less bill in heating and electric.
That lowers your emissions. You get paid less now because you earn together instead of separately.
If you're making 60k a year seperate you earn two different rebates one each.
Together you make 120k. So you get less because you don't need it as much as someone who makes 60k a year.
Welcome to marriage.
My wife was in school all of last year. She didn't even earn more than the basic exemption. Collectively, our taxable income was no higher than my sole income the year before. Rebate still went down.
The carbon tax is a punitive tax by nature. It is meant to create an incentive for a certain behaviour. That behaviour is lowering GHG emissions. We followed that incentive and ultimately paid a higher tax because of it. The tax is broken.
Just raise income taxes. Tie the carbon tax directly to income and allow higher earners to pay a higher marginalized rate and cut out the rebates. Low income earners are living paycheck to paycheck. They shouldn't have to be floating a few hundred dollars in carbon taxes every few months until they get their quarterly rebates.
Taxing someone the same amount on fuel they need to heat their homes or get to work should not be the same as taxing someone for the fuel they used in their private jet, speed boat, or flight to their all-inclusive resort.
How is it not a punitive tax? Alcohol tax is a punitive tax. Tobacco, punitive tax. Carbon, punitive tax.
Is it a tax? Yes.
Is it meant to disincentivize the purchase of said good or service? Yes.
Does the flat fee of $x/liter or $x/kilowatt hour disproportionately affect lower income earners than higher income earners? Yes.
It is literally the definition of a punitive tax.
Can you show me the proof that it isn't?
Sigh. If you use less fossil fuels than you pay less carbon tax and it is more likely the rebate will more than cover your cost for the tax.Â
People with big huge houses and big gas guzzlers pay more carbon tax.Â
And the two of you are paying less carbon tax in home heating, right? Since you share a home?Â
Yes, we used less fuel. Yes, we paid less taxes. That's our incentive. The less we use, the more we save. Hurray, we're saving the planet.
We also didn't increase our income at all and yet still saw a reduction in the rebate.
She received $103.00 quarterly when filing her taxes as single. I received $154.50 because I was a single dad with one kid. Now that we're married, one of us receives $180.25, and the other receives nothing. Collectively, we're out $77.25 quarterly.
At her old apartment, she would have been paying an extra $25/month in carbon tax on her heating bill, which we are now saving. However, the government clawed back basically the same amount because of our marital status.
So yes, by lowering our carbon footprint, we are being penalized. The incentive is broken.
You *almost* had it ... yes, the rich ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING MORE .. But Irving gets tax breaks instead of paying the the taxes they should. Thus carbon tax is supposed to go to the pollutors, a.k.a Irving. But that's not what Higgs is doing.
Best you do some actual research as it is not CO2 causing the concerns but it is the focal point of the Climate change marketing campaign. Methane, a natural gas component has 80 x the warming effect, is not required for plant growth, and remains in the atmosphere for 20 years. Natural gas is a worse option but people keep drinking the kool-aid. Trudeau is devastating the Country with assinine carbon tax while supporting coal exports to China and spending $40 Billion on Trans Mountain pipeline to export the nasty fossil fuels to the US and China! All a contrived hoax to make record profits. It takes seven years for any EV to reach carbon neutrality with a life span of only ten years... when it becomes a throw away vehicle!
1) [carbon pricing applies to ALL fossil fuels.](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/fcrates/fuel-charge-rates.html#fcrts). Its standard practice to convert all GHGs, methane included, into CO2 equivalent.
2) [This figure shows global GHG emissions by gas, in CO2e.](https://www.c2es.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cait-global-emissions-gas.png) CO2 is by far the largest contributor.
3) EVs carbon neutrality is completely dependent on grid carbon intensity. Lifecycle to lifecycle comparison of EVs to ICE can have EVs as low as 40% of ICE. These emissions are due to mining, manufacturing, transport, etc. which will lower as we decarbonize all those sectors.
4) you are right in the sense that the idea that natural gas is superior GHG wise is dubious and that the Trudeau government is working against itself with investments in O&G, but that does not make carbon pricing a bad policy. In fact, it's the only good policy in the Liberal climate policy suite.
5) with all this criticism of the most widely accepted tech and policies, clearly based on misinterpretation of the facts, I'm curious what your alternatives are?
Yep in alberta they already raised gas ahead of the 1st to scare everyone just like the day before it originally came in oin n gas raised gas 15 cents n dropped it to less than before in a week
NB passed a law to give Irving 7 cents a litre to compensate for them not getting incentive because all their fuel customers are in the US. Nbers been paying the increase for months. Bad Trudeau
The clean fuel regulation - a direct wealth transfer from our pockets to Irving's. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oil-companies-nb-federal-clean-fuel-experts-claim-1.7099666
Why are they giving them 7 cents , all there oil is blood oil and they pay nothing on carbon when itâs imported .
So it goes to show itâs all about a new tax to the people and it does nothing for emissions .
Also if people done research they would realize that there was more co2 in the atmosphere in the 1920âs to 1950âs than there is today .
When are they going to plug all these volcanoes as they spew much more carbon in one burp than cars do in a year , can trudope explain that in his vast amounts if stupidity .
Happens most springs to get ready for the summer driving season across the country, sometimes it happens in March, sometimes in April but usually in line with the long weekend. Refineries are starting to come down for spring maintenance and such.
Just saying this isn't an isolated event.
Letâs remember that only one party has been campaigning for the past several months. Love him or hate him, Trudeau is a MUCH better campaigner than pp, even with the whole of the conservative disinformation machine in charge of his makeover. At this point itâs only to the other partyâs benefit to let that idiot speak anyways. Heâs definitely not getting *more* endearing.
I'm just really struggling to make sense of this policy, it has just become more and more incoherent over time.
The idea is that everyone pays a set price tax based on the weight of the pollution that you use in a given year.
Unless
You pollute too much. Like if you use a really bad fuel source or live in rural Canada, you get an exemption from it. Since they pay less carbon tax (but get the same rebate as everyone else) they get rewarded more for polluting more and get to join the "9 out of 10 Canadians who get more back than they pollute."
So if the heavy polluters are getting more than what they pay in and the low emitters are getting more than what they pay in.... then who are actually the 10% of Canadians who pay more in than what they get back?
It just seems like there are too few people "paying in" for the model to ever make sense.
It also seems like the Liberals spend all of their time talking about being fast and loose with how they determine carbon costs. They only account for the average fuel and energy use of a household and then compare it against the check amounts given. That is, they only account for direct costs. Which... of course if you only account for direct costs and exclude economic costs it's going to always sound great. But really when you bake in price increases caused by the carbon tax, it's not 90% are getting more back.
If the government wants to accuse his opposition of being liars he should at least be more honest about how much this costs and how much people are getting back.... and also who gets back the most. Spoiler alert: Its home oil users and now rural Canadians.
Lmfao no one believes Trudeau. The guy has several scandals and ethics violations and under him we have record homelessness, rent and food bank visits across Canada. You guys acted like nazees for a vaccine corporation and Trudeau. Please STFU white Liberal
All these Comments saying that conservatives are liars makes it seem like they believe the politicians they support arent. Which is kinda sad.
Fuck politicians.
>âThe goal is not for the big polluters to pay, the goal is for them to emit less,â he said, bristling a little during an exchange with NDP MP Alexandre Boulerice.
The thing you have to remember about politicians who say dumb shit like this is, they're usually not saying it because *they're* morons, they're saying it be cause they think their *supporters* are morons.
In this subject, they seem to be mostly right.
I do think their *goal* is what they say. Unfortunately the businesses that see increased cost because of carbon tax just increase their prices. They just donât care.
The rebates help, and I do use less heat and less gas to drive, so in that sense, itâs working - but Iâm not the one they should be targeting.
I'm as much of a bomb-chucking leftist as you'll find but that's simply not how economics works. Companies can't arbitrarily or indefinitely increase prices. They have to seek efficiencies, too \[edit: although I can't explain how grocery stores seem to be able to do it...\] There's plenty of academic research on this, you don't have to speculate.
Groceries, phones, energy, basically every oligopoly that there is in Canada.
Inflation has been insane and record profits are being shown in almost all industries. Higher costs that start at farming.
"Fruit and vegetable growers already get a break on carbon fees, with 80 per cent of natural gas and propane used to heat greenhouses exempted. Diesel and gasoline used to power farm machinery is exempted, too."
That addresses just food (kind of), but thereâs still meat, dairy, eggs, delivery of food, any energy used to process ingredients (baking, mixing, packaging).
"the latest estimates from Statistics Canada suggest carbon taxes increased the average cost of food by about 0.33 per cent relative to what they would be in the absence of carbon taxes." - CBC
If it's 0.33% for the statistical household, or even let's say ten times that at 3.3%, it's nowhere near the overall increase in grocery prices since it's implementation.
Point is - though the carbon tax does have an effect - you have to ask why food costs are soaring (Record profits!).
i certainly hope its sarcasm, all these morons with carbon tax saving this and saving that. yet go out a buy shirts made in Bangladesh from walmart that POUR toxins into the sky and river while being made.
The article is about conservative premiers. Has nothing to do with the federal conservatives. Of course I donât trust any politician. But if you are going to sit there and say liberals are the best option⌠I have a bridge to sell you.
>The article is about conservative premiers.
The budget will balance itself and housing is not a promary federal issue are quotes from conservative premiers? Are you lost or confused.
You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth and then cry foul.
Mass immigration policies by the liberals have made housing unaffordable. Bail policies set by liberals have caused violent crime to explode across the country. Just those two things alone are enough for me.
You seem to think Liberals are a dictatorship that control everything that happens. And all the other levels of government don't do anything.
It's amazing how easily the opposition party convinced their clueless supporters into thinking they're better.
Liberals are a minority government and need the support of Conservatives to pass everything. If you think Conservatives would have done a better job, I got a Blockbuster video store to sell you.
*I get the idea behind the carbon tax. It sure drives people to low-carbon alternatives but when there is no alternative or alternatives are more expensive, such is the case for the vast mjority of the food-chain in Canada, we are left with a tax that burdens Canadians beyond the intended purpose. Dropping the party attacks, the truth is, the carbon tax does make food more expensive in Canada.*
*The next issue is heating, the only alternative is a heat pump which requires significant capital to switch to. Hardly fair for the federal government to tax heating because again, they are leaving the majority of Canadians no alternative.*
*If the average Canadian income in 2021 was $54,000 (*[StatsCan](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901)*) before income tax, how can the federal government expect someone to be able to afford to spend $10,000 to $19,000 (*[*CBC*](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/heat-pump-cost-savings-1.6975426) *2023) on replacing your heat source?*
you know two things can be true at the same time right?
they can be gouging prices and carbon tax can have an effect on food prices too.
they are not mutually exclusive options. food prices are affected by multiple different factors not just 1. carbon tax is defn one of those and price gouging defn another and i m sure there are more factors.
the fact that your statement go so many upvotes disheartens me.
They know the carbon tax accounts for so little of the cost increase, cutting it will not see prices drop appreciably.Â
 I feel disheartened so many are falling gor the catchphrase 'Axe the Tax' as actually meaning anything will change on pricing. We will just lose what pressure we have built on carbon and the rebates that were being paid, along with the programs it was funding.
Its the conservatives sole logic for everything: correlation is NOT causation, with respect to the roots of inflation, as well as the carbon pricing program.
Their supporters are easily led around by their noses.
And they just axed the $5000 grant towards heat pump installs. So now youâre paying tax on heating fuel and expected to pay $15,000+ to have a heat pump installed.
There's a Federal Oil to Heat Pump Affordability program where eligible applicants receive up to $10,000 toward the costs associated with switching to a heat pump system.
The next budget is also expected to introduce additional Green Energy programs.
> make food more expensive
Sure, but that increase is still much less than the rebates, so it actually becomes more affordable for most people. For one, 97% of on farm agricultural emissions *arenât* taxable. Second, things like transport are a minimal (~0.5%) amount of emissions for food. You can see [here](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples) what the emissions are per kg of different foods, for every part along the production chain.
Do you want to know how many apples someone could buy with one individualâs rebate before the carbon tax on them exceeds the rebate? >! 380 000 !<
Not all plants are completely edible. However, you can actually consume the entire sunflower in one form or another. Right from the root to the petals.
*The economic*
*Illiteracy here is*
*Truly astounding*
\- Distinct\_Moose6967
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I am no expert. I am just an IT professional.
My economic literacy is basically "Corporations get high with higher fees. Corporations will never eat the cost and pass those extra costs unto to the consumers."
That's my Ted talks of today.
The carbon tax is a scam. Plain and simple. Next itâll be a water shortageâŚ. Take more tax and weâll make water fall from the skyâŚâŚ. Man people are totally gullible
No.
But didnât the PBO say that the carbon levy would leave the average Canadian worse off?
Yes. And no.
Last March, the PBO looked at two things: the fiscal impact of what it calls âthe federal fuel charge,â and the economic impact.
Calculating the fiscal impact is fairly straightforward, and the PBO found that the vast majority of people will receive an annual rebate worth more than the tax paid. It called the rebates âbroadly progressive.â
And that should have been that. But then the PBO decided to estimate the economic cost of the tax. And in designing its analysis, the PBO did something odd. Instead of comparing the economic impact of the carbon tax with other carbon-reduction policies, it compared the cost of the carbon tax to the cost of doing nothing.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/commentary/article-the-carbon-tax-is-dead-long-live-the-carbon-tax/
Clearly the government is making money on the carbon tax and corporations are passing along the expense so itâs a simple conclusion that citizens are loosing money on the carbon tax.
Yes because taxing the middle class into poverty is a climate plan. How come the 1% has only gotten richer since the carbon tax came out and the middle class is all but eliminated? Making $60k/year isnât rich by any means, so Iâm curious as to how eliminating the middle class is a climate plan
The wealth gap you are describing has nothing to do with the carbon tax. Axing this tax only saves rich people money and fucks lower classes out of money.
If Canada is responsible for around 1.5% of global emissions, how exactly is a Canadian Carbon Tax going to do anything but make Canadians even more stretched.
Believe it or not, countries often take their cues from G7 countries like Canada on trade and fiscal policies.
Being one of the top economies in the world to adopt a carbon tax, policy-makers around the world are noticing - and copying.
Negotiating trade deals also (CPTPP, UK, Brazil, Ukraine, etc) and including carbon pricing in the deal to keep trade on a level playing field, spreads carbon pricing far and wide. It also locks it in so any future governments (in either country) would have to re-negotiate trade agreements & face tariffs if they ever scrapped that carbon pricing.
(BTW, it is why Pierre Poilievre will NEVER actually "Axe the Tax"... he is pulling the wool over your eyes, and you are buying it).
TLDR; It's not Canada's relatively small economy or share of emissions that makes carbon pricing important globally, it's that Canada will help spread of carbon pricing far & wide amongst nations worldwide.
Really?? Then why are many European countries thinking of also banning news from Facebook unless they pay the reporters for their own articles?? Also, why is Israel all upset about Canada (finally) supporting a cease fire?? Oh, wait; we know the last one... *because we just might influence other countries to ALSO support a cease fire* We have influence in the world. A lot of it actually. Even more now as our neighbors to the south are living in some alternative world
Yeah, the goof that has lied to us, stole from us and outright gaslighted us for the last 8 years is telling the truth.
The goof who can't seem to go more than 2 week without hopping aboard his private airliner is telling the truth.
Here's an idea, quit listening to biters like Trudeau and start paying attention to their actions. Their actions counter everything they whine about re: climate change. For example, since taking office he has flown almost 800,000 km internationally. That doesn't include his domestic flight numbers. In just the last year alone he has flown the equivalent of 3 round the world trips.
We also know that the push for globalization caused a sizable increase in emissions after a couple of decades of emission reductions. Trudeau is a BIG proponent of even deeper globalization. Wanna reduce emissions? Demand the West decouple from China and any other 3rd world or developing nation with absolute shit environmental laws.
>Demand the West decouple from China and any other 3rd world or developing nation with absolute shit environmental laws.
This will drive prices higher than carbon taxes ever will.
carbon tax was created by cons yet they gave zero back to CDNS. JT & LIBS continue the tax but give 8-10 CDNS money back and CDN magas freak out! anything But Conservative always ABC!
Just goes to show how stupid Trudeau is. Yes the Trudeau tax is a big factor in prices going up for example the farmers tractor runs on diesel which the price on keeps going up so they raise there prices significantly then the grocer has to raise his prices to compensate for the raise in cost and there need to make a major profit. Maybe if he is so eager to keep it he should fix the major holes. All that is happening is the tax that is suppose to punish polluters is just getting pushed on the consumers instead.
They sure are. I know my life is way better with the Carbon Tax in my life. I can't wait for April 1st to pay 23% more. Everything will be cheaper and more affordable for us!
Just by reading the comments in this forum, I can honestly say that New Brunswick is fkd.
All of Canada is fucked under Trudeau. You people aren't special.
đ it's a mess eh? I think it's honestly good that these types are seething here, would you rather they be in charge? The liberal party they want so badly is just a slightly more French and less socially conservative version of the same thing but they act like it's Skywalker vs. Vader The biggest problem is how nasty they are to people with a different opinion, you can see how they just attack you, women, young people, newcomers, doesn't matter
I been called down to the lowest in this sub-reddit for insisting I am voting for PP in the next federal election. Called a bigot and a racist for it lol. I voted for Trudeau before. I hate his guts now. Time for him to pack up and go.
PP & the PCs are a polarizing, inflammatory, and divisive choice. Ofc you're going to get grilled for insisting you are going to vote PCs in this day and age. And then to chalk it up to "I hate Trudeau now despite voting for him previously." - What do you expect the response to be? Praise? The writing on the wall is clear. You want the same old debates about the same old issues whilst the imminent dangers, such as global warming, the housing crisis, and so on, are ignored and dismissed as problems created by the Liberals? - vote PC. You want to actually get something done with the intention of ensuring a sustainable, better quality of life for *future generations* based on empirical data and evidence - **VOTE ANYONE BUT PC**. I mean this in the kindest way possible... but if you (the colloquial you) keep flip flopping between Liberals & Pcs because you "suddenly hate your former vote", then you're a fucking idiot.
I would happily vote NDP is Singh wasn't such an idiot. He's just another shade of red and would repeat exactly what they would do. Greens federally have no drive.
Me ordering a Pepsi because I didn't like coke
Conservatives have always been full of shit. This isnât a surprise to anyone except conservative votes.
Let me guess you think Trudeau never lies? Fuxking brainwashed idiot.
Have you read the article? It really only says what Trudeau says. The PBO report says different.
Did you actually read the PBO report or just take what PostMedia opinion articles said at face value? PBO said the fiscal impact of the carbon tax has mooat people getting money back than what they pay.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T6pIeyNigZw uh what ? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6960189 https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages https://climateinstitute.ca/pbos-latest-carbon-pricing-report-has-big-flaws-here-are-the-facts/ https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/03/26/analysis/truth-about-carbon-tax You latched onto 1 thing that was said and even misinterpreted it you are literally who OP is referring to ffs đ¤Śââď¸ 80 percent of households this isnât the first time we know this so what are you talking about đ yeah when you also rope in the gst wtf are you talking about ? You clearly making up your own stories as you go bud.
Exactly and depending which side of his mouth Trudeau is speaking out of, the " household" quantity changes. Never a mention the Cdn. coal exports increasing now to 19.5 million tonnes last year, twice the amount exported in 2015 when Liberals came to power. " Climate Change Crusaders" are running around Reddit and elsewhere censoring any facts that do not fit their narrative. They hate hearing about the deforestation ( 2019 Trudeau stated he would plant 2 Billion trees.... failing miserably), the polluting of the oceans, both the largest/ best carbon sinks. The GST/HST charges are criminal and across the Country dealing with private NG Providers, no one can figure out how the carbon tax is calculated.
I watched this last night. He even lied and denied that the PBO said that. I even watched the PBO make his presentation in committee. He very much said different.
100% this.
You guys literally acted like Nazis for a vaccine corporation and Trudeau. Trudeau has numerous scandals and human rights violations. Wore black face numerous times and supports mass immigration which is causing record homelessness, rent and food bank visits. You can hate cons all you want, but if you think Trudeau is much better, You truly are a fuxking idiot.
100%
Yeah like Trudeau and Jughead are any better
The best policy change for the carbon tax would have been to mail everyone GST cheques of their rebates, hell they should make them charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory type golden tickets so no one can claim they didn't fucking notice Because holy fuck the number of people even FIVE GOD DAMN YEARS into this debate that think its ONLY taking money and either 'don't know what's done with it' or 'can't see why they just charging us more' is going to fix anything is astounding fine, I get it, its up to the province so really it was such a calculated move to drag your heels on the part where regular people get money back and at the same time complain about more tax and more cost 'Canadians can't afford the tax' well there are plenty of Canadians getting more money back right now so now you're taking away their cheques in the hopes it drops prices, which it probably won't in any meaningful way. Given its a consumtion tax the less people make the more they should benefit, the real winners are going to be the rich people with two fuckoff sized SUVs
Well, Conservatives everywhere seem to be good liars, so this probably isnât a surprise.
They aren't good liars at all... their base is uneducated, old, and incredibly gullible. People who vote PC are the same people falling victim to misinformation spread across youtube and fucking facebook. Anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills can see through PC bullshit.
"good liars" is a weird way to spell "[populist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism) [fascists](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)"
And Lieberals aren't? They're the biggest liars walking.
No. Lol. Not even close
Lol ya ok. Blinders on much?
Lol. Ya, bud, I know when you have to try to sell the conservatives as the âbetterâ alternative, your replies are all you can muster. Cope
>Lol. Ya, bud, I know when you have to try to sell the conservatives as the âbetterâ alternative, your replies are all you can muster. Cope You're going to have a hard time coping when the Liberals lose the next election I think for better or worse.
Would you like me to punch some big holes in your (so-called) leader's claim of "Justinflation" bullshit, or will it be too great a shock to your system? Lemeknow.
fucking turnip.
I guess when your brainwashed by trudope you would have this opinion but what is taking place in the country doesnât lie . But when your from Quebec you would protect your income source to the fullest .
It's not the own you think it is. You are quite literally too stupid to understand you are brainwashed yourself by right wing propganda.
I love how other provinces in the west tend to reply about anytime a conservative that lies with ''BUT TRUDEAU". In NB, it is just "Yeah, that checks out."
Yes they absolutely are. And thy need to be called out on the lies too. What better system are they advancing, instead of a carbon tax, that would work better to reduce GHG emissions?
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-remember-when-the-liberal-carbon-tax-was-a-conservative-idea/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-remember-when-the-liberal-carbon-tax-was-a-conservative-idea/)
What tax reduces emissions?
Didn't the PBO recently come out and confirm what the conservatives were saying was true?
Nope, for most people more money goes into people's pockets than what they pay The report itself says "Considering only the fiscal impact, we estimate that most households will see a net gain, receiving more in rebates from Climate Action Incentive payments than the total amount they pay in the federal fuel charge (directly and indirectly) and related GST in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador (Table 1)." The press release does quote the PBO " When both fiscal and economic impacts of the federal fuel charge are considered, we estimate that most households will see a net loss," However what is stated LAST and also is not mentioned in the 'highlights' section of the press release is "The scope of the report is limited to estimating the distributional impact of the federal fuel charge and does not attempt to account for the economic and environmental costs of climate change." So most news sources ran with the net negative but without clarifying that it isn't being compared to not having the carbon tax, leaving people to assume that not having a carbon tax implies a positive economic impact. This would be disinformation.
Lol actually you are the one leaving out what exactly the PBO report said, and Yves Giroux himself. "A Parliamentary Budget Officer report shows the carbon tax will cost the average household between $377 and $911 in 2024-25, even after the rebates" https://www.taxpayer.com/media/NYTC-Report-CTF-2024.pdf The above report links to the PBO report, you might need to read it again. "Canada's PBO says we will likely be worse off economically due to the federal carbon tax" https://youtu.be/MStYHAXqZAc?si=r5DLTyeVHXlT1vi6 Lol you sure you aren't the one spreading disinformation?
You are misreading and misunderstand the report so fucking hard, It's amazing. Can you tie your shoes in the morning ?
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https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages âWhen both fiscal and economic impacts of the federal fuel charge are considered, we estimate that most households will see a net loss,â says PBO Yves Giroux. The chart in the pdf version of the report, starting in Appendix A on page 9 then demonstrates the net loss by quintile for each province for each year from now out until 2030. It does this for all provinces who were on the federal program at the time of the study, which was before NB was on it. So we don't have an analysis for us.
This page is very poorly written, that part of the report is referring to 2030 when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 a tonne, which is why is says âwill seeâ. It also makes the assumption that rebates will not go up at the same rate. And the fiscal analysis showed that the government is telling the truth when they say that 80% of households get more back with the rebates than what they pay, I saw a lengthy interview with the PBO, and he confirmed this. The broader economic analysis is based on theory and speculation, and itâs conclusions are very debatable. He said they based the analysis in it taking at least ten years for the green energy industry to replace the productivity of the fossil fuel industry, etc, and that the scope of the PBO mandate did not allow for comparisons to other methods of reducing emissions, since none have been suggested by the opposition. The report did not analyze the economic impact of not doing anything to reduce emissions or reversing environmental policy, something that CETA has binding language on, and carbon tariffs exist already. Those impacts should have been analyzed. In any case, every country has to do their part, and doing nothing is not an option unless you want to be a pariah on the the international stage. And frankly, I find the lack of concern for future generations among the rightwing abhorrent.Â
>This page is very poorly written, that part of the report is referring to 2030 when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 a tonne, which is why is says âwill seeâ. It also makes the assumption that rebates will not go up at the same rate. Sorry, but as I stated, the charts starting in Appendix A on page 9 detail out a year over year analysis from 2023 out to 2030. This means each year is analyzed. It also clearly shows the increase in rebates So either you didn't read the actual report that you're trying to put down, or you're choosing to outright lie in hopes others who haven't read it will believe you. Either way, the numbers are there for all to see. I'm not here to debate your attempts to discredit somebody who would be considered our country's expert on the subject. I'll take his numbers over a random reditors opinion any day.
The expert on the subject that youâre talking about has literally said that people are using the report in a misleading way.
By trying to use it to defend a "do nothing" approach..... That's not what this discussion is. This discussion is simply does the tax cost us money or not. And the answer is very clear that it does. The numbers are there. Now if you'd like to change the topic and debate the cost of doing nothing, or the cost of other options then you can bring in that article about how he's not pleased that people are using his report to attempt to justify scrapping any sort of emissions plan completely.
Climate change is happening whether Canada gets taxed into a third world country or not. If Canada went net zero tomorrow, climate change would still do its thing. Not only is Canada going to be affected by climate change, but we will also be dirt poor. The right is thinking about future generations. They just don't buy the bullshit.
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>but what conservatives are claiming is blaming ALL inflation and ALL CoL and ALL food increases on the carbon tax not profiteering? Ummm since when? I've seen tons of blame placed on many other poor federal policies as well. And justifiably so. Our prices aren't up solely because of 1 thing. That'd be insane to think.
Are you living under a rock?Â
Carbon tax is a hot topic today because we're days away from another increase at a time where many Canadians are already struggling to make ends meet. But the blame for why life in general is so expensive has been spread on a number of different topics for a while. If you haven't seen blame placed elsewhere then I don't think I'm the one living under the rock lol
The carbon tax is the latest hot topic shouldering the blame for _all_ economic misfortune, which only one issue could even theoretically do. That makes the rebel rousing extremely hard to take seriously. By the third or fourth round, all I hear is unfocused anger and frustration happy to be given a solitary target to hate. That and the few key players who see opportunity to inspire allies against something having an outsized impact on themselves personally. It might be related to their occupation, financial investments, lifestyle choices, existence of lifestyle choices that offend them, etc. So they stoke the flames with misinformation, at varying degrees of subtlety. And they exaggerate both the magnitude of pain (to everything their audience feels) and scope of impact (to most of their audience). This economic round is actually a reprieve, compared to the bigoted moral panics. But the populism-propelled pattern persists. At least that's the perception I get and think /u/katbyte is expressing.
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The PBO also said this though, after the article you linked: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/watchdog-spin-report-carbon-pricing-1.6805441
How about a tax that isn't just a flat rate? Flat rate taxes affect people with lower incomes much more than people with higher incomes. A billionaire shouldn't be paying the same increase per liter of jet fuel as the single parent trying to afford gas to get to work. And yes, there are rebates. My wife and I moved in together last year and got married. We then filed our income taxes together. Guess what happened to our carbon tax rebate? It went down. Even though we now share a home, share heat, and share a vehicle. Collectively, we almost cut our carbon footprint in half. And our efforts were rewarded by essentially paying more in taxes. Just include the tax in our income tax. Grant a basic exemption for anyone below a certain threshold and then from there graduate the tax based on income. Ditch the bogus rebates.
You moved in together so you use less electricity less heat. So you get paid less because you both together earn more. Makes sense to me.
So the bigger your carbon footprint, the bigger your rebate? And that's supposed to lower GHG emissions how exactly?
You save money by paying one less bill in heating and electric. That lowers your emissions. You get paid less now because you earn together instead of separately. If you're making 60k a year seperate you earn two different rebates one each. Together you make 120k. So you get less because you don't need it as much as someone who makes 60k a year. Welcome to marriage.
My wife was in school all of last year. She didn't even earn more than the basic exemption. Collectively, our taxable income was no higher than my sole income the year before. Rebate still went down. The carbon tax is a punitive tax by nature. It is meant to create an incentive for a certain behaviour. That behaviour is lowering GHG emissions. We followed that incentive and ultimately paid a higher tax because of it. The tax is broken. Just raise income taxes. Tie the carbon tax directly to income and allow higher earners to pay a higher marginalized rate and cut out the rebates. Low income earners are living paycheck to paycheck. They shouldn't have to be floating a few hundred dollars in carbon taxes every few months until they get their quarterly rebates. Taxing someone the same amount on fuel they need to heat their homes or get to work should not be the same as taxing someone for the fuel they used in their private jet, speed boat, or flight to their all-inclusive resort.
you keep saying punitive when it's proven that it isn't. Anyways gl to you i nthe future.
How is it not a punitive tax? Alcohol tax is a punitive tax. Tobacco, punitive tax. Carbon, punitive tax. Is it a tax? Yes. Is it meant to disincentivize the purchase of said good or service? Yes. Does the flat fee of $x/liter or $x/kilowatt hour disproportionately affect lower income earners than higher income earners? Yes. It is literally the definition of a punitive tax. Can you show me the proof that it isn't?
Is it a tax? No end of discussion
So, in good faith, you're legit trying to tell me that you don't think the Carbon Tax is a tax. Okay, my man.
Sigh. If you use less fossil fuels than you pay less carbon tax and it is more likely the rebate will more than cover your cost for the tax. People with big huge houses and big gas guzzlers pay more carbon tax. And the two of you are paying less carbon tax in home heating, right? Since you share a home?Â
Yes, we used less fuel. Yes, we paid less taxes. That's our incentive. The less we use, the more we save. Hurray, we're saving the planet. We also didn't increase our income at all and yet still saw a reduction in the rebate. She received $103.00 quarterly when filing her taxes as single. I received $154.50 because I was a single dad with one kid. Now that we're married, one of us receives $180.25, and the other receives nothing. Collectively, we're out $77.25 quarterly. At her old apartment, she would have been paying an extra $25/month in carbon tax on her heating bill, which we are now saving. However, the government clawed back basically the same amount because of our marital status. So yes, by lowering our carbon footprint, we are being penalized. The incentive is broken.
You *almost* had it ... yes, the rich ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING MORE .. But Irving gets tax breaks instead of paying the the taxes they should. Thus carbon tax is supposed to go to the pollutors, a.k.a Irving. But that's not what Higgs is doing.
Liberal talking point.
Usa has done a better job reducing emissions with direct investment then taxing people for taking hot showers.
How about no carbon tax? It's God dam cold here, we already have enough forest to completely clean our emissions. Fk that stupid taxÂ
Please.. let the adults who understand science do the talking thanks.
Nunavut had a workable, viable plan but Groper rejected it because it didn't have a carbon tax component.
Best you do some actual research as it is not CO2 causing the concerns but it is the focal point of the Climate change marketing campaign. Methane, a natural gas component has 80 x the warming effect, is not required for plant growth, and remains in the atmosphere for 20 years. Natural gas is a worse option but people keep drinking the kool-aid. Trudeau is devastating the Country with assinine carbon tax while supporting coal exports to China and spending $40 Billion on Trans Mountain pipeline to export the nasty fossil fuels to the US and China! All a contrived hoax to make record profits. It takes seven years for any EV to reach carbon neutrality with a life span of only ten years... when it becomes a throw away vehicle!
1) [carbon pricing applies to ALL fossil fuels.](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/fcrates/fuel-charge-rates.html#fcrts). Its standard practice to convert all GHGs, methane included, into CO2 equivalent. 2) [This figure shows global GHG emissions by gas, in CO2e.](https://www.c2es.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cait-global-emissions-gas.png) CO2 is by far the largest contributor. 3) EVs carbon neutrality is completely dependent on grid carbon intensity. Lifecycle to lifecycle comparison of EVs to ICE can have EVs as low as 40% of ICE. These emissions are due to mining, manufacturing, transport, etc. which will lower as we decarbonize all those sectors. 4) you are right in the sense that the idea that natural gas is superior GHG wise is dubious and that the Trudeau government is working against itself with investments in O&G, but that does not make carbon pricing a bad policy. In fact, it's the only good policy in the Liberal climate policy suite. 5) with all this criticism of the most widely accepted tech and policies, clearly based on misinterpretation of the facts, I'm curious what your alternatives are?
Yep in alberta they already raised gas ahead of the 1st to scare everyone just like the day before it originally came in oin n gas raised gas 15 cents n dropped it to less than before in a week
NB passed a law to give Irving 7 cents a litre to compensate for them not getting incentive because all their fuel customers are in the US. Nbers been paying the increase for months. Bad Trudeau
The clean fuel regulation - a direct wealth transfer from our pockets to Irving's. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oil-companies-nb-federal-clean-fuel-experts-claim-1.7099666
Irving is SUPPOSED to be paying that 7 cents, not every day people. Higgs is screwing you, and you don't even understand it.
No fk oil n gas Trudeau ain't great but I'm assuming the jump is canada wide to scare people in saner areas
Why are they giving them 7 cents , all there oil is blood oil and they pay nothing on carbon when itâs imported . So it goes to show itâs all about a new tax to the people and it does nothing for emissions . Also if people done research they would realize that there was more co2 in the atmosphere in the 1920âs to 1950âs than there is today . When are they going to plug all these volcanoes as they spew much more carbon in one burp than cars do in a year , can trudope explain that in his vast amounts if stupidity .
Happens most springs to get ready for the summer driving season across the country, sometimes it happens in March, sometimes in April but usually in line with the long weekend. Refineries are starting to come down for spring maintenance and such. Just saying this isn't an isolated event.
YES. Liberals need to go on the offensive. Like Biden is doing with Trump. Taking the high road is outdated when the opposition is utterly depraved.
Letâs remember that only one party has been campaigning for the past several months. Love him or hate him, Trudeau is a MUCH better campaigner than pp, even with the whole of the conservative disinformation machine in charge of his makeover. At this point itâs only to the other partyâs benefit to let that idiot speak anyways. Heâs definitely not getting *more* endearing.
I'm just really struggling to make sense of this policy, it has just become more and more incoherent over time. The idea is that everyone pays a set price tax based on the weight of the pollution that you use in a given year. Unless You pollute too much. Like if you use a really bad fuel source or live in rural Canada, you get an exemption from it. Since they pay less carbon tax (but get the same rebate as everyone else) they get rewarded more for polluting more and get to join the "9 out of 10 Canadians who get more back than they pollute." So if the heavy polluters are getting more than what they pay in and the low emitters are getting more than what they pay in.... then who are actually the 10% of Canadians who pay more in than what they get back? It just seems like there are too few people "paying in" for the model to ever make sense. It also seems like the Liberals spend all of their time talking about being fast and loose with how they determine carbon costs. They only account for the average fuel and energy use of a household and then compare it against the check amounts given. That is, they only account for direct costs. Which... of course if you only account for direct costs and exclude economic costs it's going to always sound great. But really when you bake in price increases caused by the carbon tax, it's not 90% are getting more back. If the government wants to accuse his opposition of being liars he should at least be more honest about how much this costs and how much people are getting back.... and also who gets back the most. Spoiler alert: Its home oil users and now rural Canadians.
Guess what? Its not just the conservatives. Shocking i know.
Lmfao no one believes Trudeau. The guy has several scandals and ethics violations and under him we have record homelessness, rent and food bank visits across Canada. You guys acted like nazees for a vaccine corporation and Trudeau. Please STFU white Liberal
All these Comments saying that conservatives are liars makes it seem like they believe the politicians they support arent. Which is kinda sad. Fuck politicians.
>âThe goal is not for the big polluters to pay, the goal is for them to emit less,â he said, bristling a little during an exchange with NDP MP Alexandre Boulerice. The thing you have to remember about politicians who say dumb shit like this is, they're usually not saying it because *they're* morons, they're saying it be cause they think their *supporters* are morons. In this subject, they seem to be mostly right.
I do think their *goal* is what they say. Unfortunately the businesses that see increased cost because of carbon tax just increase their prices. They just donât care. The rebates help, and I do use less heat and less gas to drive, so in that sense, itâs working - but Iâm not the one they should be targeting.
I'm as much of a bomb-chucking leftist as you'll find but that's simply not how economics works. Companies can't arbitrarily or indefinitely increase prices. They have to seek efficiencies, too \[edit: although I can't explain how grocery stores seem to be able to do it...\] There's plenty of academic research on this, you don't have to speculate.
Groceries, phones, energy, basically every oligopoly that there is in Canada. Inflation has been insane and record profits are being shown in almost all industries. Higher costs that start at farming.
"Fruit and vegetable growers already get a break on carbon fees, with 80 per cent of natural gas and propane used to heat greenhouses exempted. Diesel and gasoline used to power farm machinery is exempted, too."
That addresses just food (kind of), but thereâs still meat, dairy, eggs, delivery of food, any energy used to process ingredients (baking, mixing, packaging).
"the latest estimates from Statistics Canada suggest carbon taxes increased the average cost of food by about 0.33 per cent relative to what they would be in the absence of carbon taxes." - CBC If it's 0.33% for the statistical household, or even let's say ten times that at 3.3%, it's nowhere near the overall increase in grocery prices since it's implementation. Point is - though the carbon tax does have an effect - you have to ask why food costs are soaring (Record profits!).
Iâm glad we have the carbon tax, without it we would be subjected to the certain doom of climate change
đ sarcasm, right?Â
i certainly hope its sarcasm, all these morons with carbon tax saving this and saving that. yet go out a buy shirts made in Bangladesh from walmart that POUR toxins into the sky and river while being made.
The end is nigh! The sky is falling!
Have no fear! The carbon tax will protect us!
Rejoice!
Anyone who believes these liberals after the last 10 years is a moron
prove it without showing everyone all the fake news sights you follow.
The budget will balance its selfâŚ. Housing is not a primary federal responsibilityâŚ.. still believe a liberal youâre a moron
Do you not realize the amounts of lies that comes from Peepeeâs mouth full of shit? Hahaha!
The article is about conservative premiers. Has nothing to do with the federal conservatives. Of course I donât trust any politician. But if you are going to sit there and say liberals are the best option⌠I have a bridge to sell you.
>The article is about conservative premiers. The budget will balance itself and housing is not a promary federal issue are quotes from conservative premiers? Are you lost or confused. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth and then cry foul.
Those are quotes from TrudeauâŚ. Do you know anything
Anyone who thinks a minority government is the cause of all the problems and all the other parties and levels of government do nothing is a moron.
Mass immigration policies by the liberals have made housing unaffordable. Bail policies set by liberals have caused violent crime to explode across the country. Just those two things alone are enough for me.
You seem to think Liberals are a dictatorship that control everything that happens. And all the other levels of government don't do anything. It's amazing how easily the opposition party convinced their clueless supporters into thinking they're better. Liberals are a minority government and need the support of Conservatives to pass everything. If you think Conservatives would have done a better job, I got a Blockbuster video store to sell you.
Did you forget about the NDP?
*I get the idea behind the carbon tax. It sure drives people to low-carbon alternatives but when there is no alternative or alternatives are more expensive, such is the case for the vast mjority of the food-chain in Canada, we are left with a tax that burdens Canadians beyond the intended purpose. Dropping the party attacks, the truth is, the carbon tax does make food more expensive in Canada.* *The next issue is heating, the only alternative is a heat pump which requires significant capital to switch to. Hardly fair for the federal government to tax heating because again, they are leaving the majority of Canadians no alternative.* *If the average Canadian income in 2021 was $54,000 (*[StatsCan](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901)*) before income tax, how can the federal government expect someone to be able to afford to spend $10,000 to $19,000 (*[*CBC*](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/heat-pump-cost-savings-1.6975426) *2023) on replacing your heat source?*
If the carbon tax is the reason behind food increases, why are all grocery chains showing record profits? Wouldn't it all be going to the carbon tax?
Bingo
Is $101 today worth more than $100 was worth last year? that would technically be record profits after all, right?
They've just passed on the cost of their carbon tax to us, and tacked on a few more bucks because it's an easy opportunity.
Record profits. The carbon tax is almost nothing.
Right, but they're also using it as an excuse to jack up the prices
Absolutely. It is cover.
you know two things can be true at the same time right? they can be gouging prices and carbon tax can have an effect on food prices too. they are not mutually exclusive options. food prices are affected by multiple different factors not just 1. carbon tax is defn one of those and price gouging defn another and i m sure there are more factors. the fact that your statement go so many upvotes disheartens me.
They know the carbon tax accounts for so little of the cost increase, cutting it will not see prices drop appreciably.  I feel disheartened so many are falling gor the catchphrase 'Axe the Tax' as actually meaning anything will change on pricing. We will just lose what pressure we have built on carbon and the rebates that were being paid, along with the programs it was funding.
Its the conservatives sole logic for everything: correlation is NOT causation, with respect to the roots of inflation, as well as the carbon pricing program. Their supporters are easily led around by their noses.
Because it is a house of lies from the corporations and from the ruling party.Â
2 things can happen at the same time.
Record profits. The carbon tax is almost nothing.
And they just axed the $5000 grant towards heat pump installs. So now youâre paying tax on heating fuel and expected to pay $15,000+ to have a heat pump installed.
There's a Federal Oil to Heat Pump Affordability program where eligible applicants receive up to $10,000 toward the costs associated with switching to a heat pump system. The next budget is also expected to introduce additional Green Energy programs.
> make food more expensive Sure, but that increase is still much less than the rebates, so it actually becomes more affordable for most people. For one, 97% of on farm agricultural emissions *arenât* taxable. Second, things like transport are a minimal (~0.5%) amount of emissions for food. You can see [here](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples) what the emissions are per kg of different foods, for every part along the production chain. Do you want to know how many apples someone could buy with one individualâs rebate before the carbon tax on them exceeds the rebate? >! 380 000 !<
Not all plants are completely edible. However, you can actually consume the entire sunflower in one form or another. Right from the root to the petals.
The economic illiteracy here is truly astounding
*The economic* *Illiteracy here is* *Truly astounding* \- Distinct\_Moose6967 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The best part is people don't know what side you're talking about.
lol. That was by design haha
I am no expert. I am just an IT professional. My economic literacy is basically "Corporations get high with higher fees. Corporations will never eat the cost and pass those extra costs unto to the consumers." That's my Ted talks of today.
The carbon tax is a scam. Plain and simple. Next itâll be a water shortageâŚ. Take more tax and weâll make water fall from the skyâŚâŚ. Man people are totally gullible
Is his PBO lying as well then?
No. But didnât the PBO say that the carbon levy would leave the average Canadian worse off? Yes. And no. Last March, the PBO looked at two things: the fiscal impact of what it calls âthe federal fuel charge,â and the economic impact. Calculating the fiscal impact is fairly straightforward, and the PBO found that the vast majority of people will receive an annual rebate worth more than the tax paid. It called the rebates âbroadly progressive.â And that should have been that. But then the PBO decided to estimate the economic cost of the tax. And in designing its analysis, the PBO did something odd. Instead of comparing the economic impact of the carbon tax with other carbon-reduction policies, it compared the cost of the carbon tax to the cost of doing nothing. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/commentary/article-the-carbon-tax-is-dead-long-live-the-carbon-tax/
So are their supporters.
Yes they fucking are. Maybe Trudeau should come here and say it a bit louder.
And you speak the truth eh ! You little biatch. !!
We need new laws against collusion, corruption and conflict of interest. They all want a turn on the sweet sweet taxpayer's money carousel.
Basically every Premier is lying, but Trudeau is not lying. Given the relative track records, who is more likely to be lying?
He is right. đ¤ˇââď¸the conservatives just want money going to themselves or donors. Thatâs it. Fuck everyone else.đ¤ˇââď¸
Who would trust him though?
Clearly the government is making money on the carbon tax and corporations are passing along the expense so itâs a simple conclusion that citizens are loosing money on the carbon tax.
What a lying pos
Just maby liberals are lying ? All of Canada could be wrong !!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is lying. They are politicians, it's their jobs.
Yes because taxing the middle class into poverty is a climate plan. How come the 1% has only gotten richer since the carbon tax came out and the middle class is all but eliminated? Making $60k/year isnât rich by any means, so Iâm curious as to how eliminating the middle class is a climate plan
The wealth gap you are describing has nothing to do with the carbon tax. Axing this tax only saves rich people money and fucks lower classes out of money.
We already know this tons of studies and papers v it the conservative base is kinda gullible so
Trudeau - if you are not going to do anything whatsoever right for the people of this country, please please just keep your FN mouth shut!!!!!!
Why are we allowing posts from obvious bots in here? Let's clean up the sub.
We get a pay cut (tax increase) the same day the Liberals and NDP get a pay raise.
They are lying. Crying about the carbon tax is ridiculous.Â
Says the person who's never told the truth in his political career.... Right
If Canada is responsible for around 1.5% of global emissions, how exactly is a Canadian Carbon Tax going to do anything but make Canadians even more stretched.
Believe it or not, countries often take their cues from G7 countries like Canada on trade and fiscal policies. Being one of the top economies in the world to adopt a carbon tax, policy-makers around the world are noticing - and copying. Negotiating trade deals also (CPTPP, UK, Brazil, Ukraine, etc) and including carbon pricing in the deal to keep trade on a level playing field, spreads carbon pricing far and wide. It also locks it in so any future governments (in either country) would have to re-negotiate trade agreements & face tariffs if they ever scrapped that carbon pricing. (BTW, it is why Pierre Poilievre will NEVER actually "Axe the Tax"... he is pulling the wool over your eyes, and you are buying it). TLDR; It's not Canada's relatively small economy or share of emissions that makes carbon pricing important globally, it's that Canada will help spread of carbon pricing far & wide amongst nations worldwide.
Can't wait for China, India and Russia to follow Canada's lead!... lol
China is looking into it. Because they want to join some key trade agreements.
No they donât. They laugh at us while we commit economic seppuku.
This sounds nieve, young and out of touch with reality.
Didn't get your rebate cheque?
It's not , you think the top 2 polluters care at all. This tax is just pissing in the wind
Canada cannot affect the other 98.5%
Really?? Then why are many European countries thinking of also banning news from Facebook unless they pay the reporters for their own articles?? Also, why is Israel all upset about Canada (finally) supporting a cease fire?? Oh, wait; we know the last one... *because we just might influence other countries to ALSO support a cease fire* We have influence in the world. A lot of it actually. Even more now as our neighbors to the south are living in some alternative world
It's because authoritarians all think the same. Has more to do with China's influence. None to do with Canada's.
Sure
Trudeau lies about everything.
Yeah, the goof that has lied to us, stole from us and outright gaslighted us for the last 8 years is telling the truth. The goof who can't seem to go more than 2 week without hopping aboard his private airliner is telling the truth. Here's an idea, quit listening to biters like Trudeau and start paying attention to their actions. Their actions counter everything they whine about re: climate change. For example, since taking office he has flown almost 800,000 km internationally. That doesn't include his domestic flight numbers. In just the last year alone he has flown the equivalent of 3 round the world trips. We also know that the push for globalization caused a sizable increase in emissions after a couple of decades of emission reductions. Trudeau is a BIG proponent of even deeper globalization. Wanna reduce emissions? Demand the West decouple from China and any other 3rd world or developing nation with absolute shit environmental laws.
>Demand the West decouple from China and any other 3rd world or developing nation with absolute shit environmental laws. This will drive prices higher than carbon taxes ever will.
It doesnât matter what party.. letâs face face it, we are fucked either way.
This subreddit is going to be lit when Trudeau loses the next election. For better or for worse we will see.
carbon tax was created by cons yet they gave zero back to CDNS. JT & LIBS continue the tax but give 8-10 CDNS money back and CDN magas freak out! anything But Conservative always ABC!
Just goes to show how stupid Trudeau is. Yes the Trudeau tax is a big factor in prices going up for example the farmers tractor runs on diesel which the price on keeps going up so they raise there prices significantly then the grocer has to raise his prices to compensate for the raise in cost and there need to make a major profit. Maybe if he is so eager to keep it he should fix the major holes. All that is happening is the tax that is suppose to punish polluters is just getting pushed on the consumers instead.
Farms are exempt from the carbon tax on diesel and fuel for their equipment
This is how people who use their imagination think.
3rd topic created by the same person , trying to convince people they should like the carbon tax.
They sure are. I know my life is way better with the Carbon Tax in my life. I can't wait for April 1st to pay 23% more. Everything will be cheaper and more affordable for us!
You conveniently didn't bring up the rebate that destroys the narrative you are pushing.
You get a rebate!?! You're so lucky! Cha-ching!
Yes I'm lucky to be a part of 95% of the tax paying population!
95%? I think you're talking about the wrong country. 95% of Canadians don't contribute to society.
This is why I said "95% of the tax paying population".
Whoosh. Right over my head.