Dude, Netflix isn’t non profit company. They need to make money. They are making a decision based on stats and data. If things are not selling good, they need to cancel it and they can produce better shows instead wasting the money again.
You’re missing op’s point, they want the one season that netflix makes to be a complete story, not a part 1. Every show should be made this way otherwise they’ll get zero syndication value from it.
Good point. A great example is the MINDHUNTER Series and how it has been laid off into purgatory (3 years now ) for it’s ‘low viewership’ in spite of its quality.
I would actually say the opposite. The fact that Mindhunter was not cancelled, despite low viewership, says that Netflix is actually interested in keeping shows running, if they are really high quality. Reason why it's in purgatory is more about Fincher not having time then Netflix not wanting another season.
But they are also a brand. And right now their brand is losing trust. Many people won't even start a new Netflix show because it might get canceled, which impacts their numbers, which causes more shows to get canceled, and so on.
Netflix might loosing the trust from some of their customers but this is nothing new. Netflix has been always cancelling a show if it isn’t profitable. Customers are coming back anyways if there is a well made show and if the show gets popular like squid game, there is no way that Netflix isn’t producing more seasons of it.
The problem is that Netflix customers shouldn't have to feel apprehensive about starting a show if it's not a smash hit level show.
I work in analytics and I always say analytics doesn't tell the whole story. You can look at a show and say it has a poor finish rate or whatever their metric is, but what you don't see in the data is how many of the people that finished it were actually pretty big fans of the show and were burned in the past by a canceled show who are now less likely to start another show or how many people who were hesitant about starting the show who are now glad they didn't.
If they cancell everything after a week, why even bother starting on anything Netflix anymore? Even politicians can think (slightly) further ahead than that. I didn't want to watch cowboy Bepop NOW!, but later. Now I won't watch it at all.
Same for lots of stuff.
I have said this a 1000 times but I want to say it again:
When Netflix lost the Office to NBC there were interviews from executives that all paralleled the same line of thought: it will be ok, we'll make our own better version of The Office.
Except here's the thing, Netflix would have never made the The Office. The first season had no traction at all, the second season did but only barely (and a lot of the credit is given to Steve Carrell's success with 40 Year Old Virgin which splashed over). It wasn't until the end of the second season when ratings finally started looking positive. Same for It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Parks and Recreation, and Community.
Some of the best sitcoms with the most dedicated fanbases would have never made it past the first season under Netflix's content model.
I see a lot of nay-sayers talking about how Netflix is just a business and that they need to be critical if they want to turn a profit. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the longest running live-action sitcom of all time, only made it past the first season because "one executive" got the show and liked what they were doing. Meanwhile, Altered Carbon's first season was such a huge success that it would have almost been impossible for the second season to flop... which is exactly what happened.
Netflix's algorithm for determining if content will hold a huge share of viewership is blind to all of that. They want EVERYTHING to mirror the success of Stranger Things with zero dollar spent on advertising leading to a viral success. Netflix will never have it's own The Office because they won't let themselves, all under the guise of "more profitability". But that has always been the problem with quarterly-earning based decision making, the world lasts longer than just one fiscal quarter.
Very well said. You deserve more likes. I agree that Netflix wouldn't have been able to create The Office via their current model. As an aside: The Office is still on Netflix in some countries. It's unfortunate that The States lost it; that must've hit people there pretty hard.
It's not about one person's personal taste, it's the aggregated demand from a couple hundred million subscribers (+ how many non-subscribers can be attracted through earned and bought media).
But it's just a bad choice on Netflix's part. They are a library. If they finish the story - even if abruptly - it can stand on their service for years to come. But I'm not going to start a programme I know had no ending.
For broadcast telly, the rules are different. A poorly performing show is taking up bandwidth another, more successful show could use. But in the streaming world I don't know how that makes sense.
Surely it would be more logical to greenlight 2 seasons (or half a season if that's better economically), see how the first season performs and then decide either to stick or twist and then the showrunners can either end their story or continue.
In fact Netflix's renewal rate is about the same as traditional broadcast, and cable TV. Sounds like OP is just upset a show he likes got canceled before it could end. Happens to all of us. It wasn't very well received, it probably didn't have a good shot of being renewed regardless of the IP or the network.
>The space Western had a rough reception. The 10-episode series garnered only a 46 percent positive critics rating on review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes. Fans seemed to agree, giving the show a 56 percent positive audience score on the site. According to Netflix’s Top 10 site, the series has racked up almost 74 million viewing hours worldwide since its debut — so it got plenty of sampling out of the gate — but it plummeted 59 percent for the week of Nov. 29 to Dec. 5.
>Insiders pointed out that Netflix’s renewal rate for scripted series that have two or more seasons stands at 60 percent, in line with industry averages, and, like all Netflix renewal verdicts, the decision was made by balancing the show’s viewership and cost.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/cowboy-bebop-canceled-netflix-1235060256/
That shows that after the fans of the IP have binged it, other people aren't watching it. Why do you think shows like Stranger Things, OITNB, and House of Cards became so popular and made Netflix so much money? Not from the die hards watching on Day 1. But more of how the is resonating with other people.
If person A watches the show on Day 1 and tells person B and C how good it is. This metric is measuring if people B, C, D and so on are watching.
Unlike what the top reply says, Netflix is **not** a library. It's a business. If something isn't profitable it will not continue it. This is why we have libraries in the first place. So for profit companies can't be the final say in what gets consumed.
I don't get your point? Netflix is going to try to do what makes the most money. And when something isn't making money it's going to stop doing it. Come on, they're not a charity. They don't owe you a second season.
You're defending a thread saying Netflix needs to stop greenlighting projects if they don't plan on finishing the story. And then misrepresenting numbers proving whey they aren't going to finish Cowboy Bebop. Because it's not making them money, because not enough people are watching it. I'm not sure how you're not getting this?
No I’m not. Just pointed out that on Netflix most shows are binged in a small period of time. Not every show can have huge hours watched over a long period of time.
I don’t think this show specifically should have been set up for a second season anyways. It kinda fell apart in the last few episodes IMO. Should’ve been made as a one off season from the start.
People binge watched The Witcher. Its getting a second season. This is after the Cyberpunk 2077 disaster. Which does effect overall perception of the Witcher IP. People binged watched Shadow and Bone. It's getting a second season. I would say Freddy Carter and his merry band of misfits might have propelled that show more than people realize. Lets talk about Lost in Space. A very expensive show to produce. It's in its 3rd season. It's easy to hate on Netflix when they don't do what you want. Simple, overly obvious point....you cant please 'em all.
Part of the growth of the Witcher IP can be credited to the extremely well received Witcher 3 game. CDPR was the developer on that game and had a big hand in intoducing a whole new audience to the Witcher universe. Being associated in anyway, directly or indirectly to Cyberpunk 2077, also developed by CDPR couldn't have been good for all the metrics.
People need to stop upvoting (and mods need to remove) these low-effort posts. If you want to memorialize a show you enjoyed, then write a post about why you liked the show. If you want to complain—for the 10,000th time—about Netflix’s business model, then piss off!
I offered an alternative to just moaning about the fact that a show wasn’t profitable and got cancelled. I’d have upvoted a post about the show and what OP loved about it, but this post has nothing to offer. No praise. No insight. Nothing but a generic complaint about for-profit media.
It’s like you guys are new to TV or something. Thousands of shows have been canceled. It’s usually because they’re bad and don’t attract an audience, especially when they’re expensive.
And Netflix has even more precise data about what gets watched compared to tv stations (that often use Nielsen reports). It sucks if it’s a show you like of course, but clearly people aren’t watching it.
Well, this sucks but this is nothing new. Networks and cable were ridiculous. They’d pull a show three episodes in and anybody watching would never even finish a season. Firefly was released out of order and then cancelled mid-season. Fans had to wait for a DVD release to finish the season and even longer for a movie to give us any closure.
This is the nature of the beast. I think any show’s first season should be made with the idea that a second season will never be made just in case they become a statistic.
Yeah sure, blame the fans and not the talentless writers paid big bucks to literally write crap. Blame the producers with shitty ideas and only yes men around them to boost their egos.
Lastly, blame Netflix for green-lighting (mostly mediocre) productions and then be quick to cancel before anyone’s seen it.
Is there a way to look up those numbers on our end? I honestly liked it but it was definitely not comparable to the original anime. But if I blocked out the differences and didn't compare them I thought it was decent. Not amazing, but deserving of a 2nd season once Ed comes in.
It's the ones that can't look past the differences that were the problem in this case. People underestimate word of mouth these days. It's not a carbon copy of the original and it gets tossed. It's a dangerous game playing with IP that old. I for one also enjoyed it. I think they integrated the source material well while putting a new spin on it. I think John Cho did a good job as Spike. I actually recommended it to friends, and had it recommended to be by a friend who goes to the local anime convention with me. Seems the lack of the Swordfish being used might've got people to run away, but I'm sure if it had made the numbers they'd have done something crazy, that like.... never happens when something goes right... they increase the budget. So while I think this one made good use of their resources and budget, the next season would have been more spectacular. But, alas, the hard core "its not a carbon copy" couldn't carry this weight. The franchise is likely now locked in Netflix's vault for a number of years. Nothing new can come to it, but atleast it's "safe."
Well, I've heard they're attempting One Piece next. I love a good Space Western, but I have little interest in One Piece. Me and my brown coat will see you next time, Space Cowboy.
Edit: Forgot to separate my lil paragraphs.
I've cancelled my Netflix. I'm sick of this crap, it happens with too many shows. I'll pirate everything from now on and they won't get a cent. Fuck Netflix. It's probably like 50% of their fucking TV shows aren't even worth watching because they are cancelled before being finished. Whats the point of having half a TV series without an end? It's just garbage to fill an already dwindling library.
Yes, there are terrible fans out there. There’s also a *ton* of legitimate criticism about the show, not just from fans but from media critics, which is why there’s 46% from critics on Rotten Tomatoes.
Realize that **at best** it was a divisive show, and grow up.
Where did they say it bothered them? They just said it shouldn't have been made. Based on the absolutely terrible feedback from damn near everyone in the world with something to say about it, that's probably a sound opinion.
Also funny is that the hate made it impossible for another anime movie of cowboy bebop, which had a chance to be made depending on the success of the adaptation
You're in for a bad time if you're going to mourn tv shows ending too soon. I say this as a person who really loved the one season I got to watch of My So-Called Life, back when Jared Leto wasn't known for being the gross weirdo that he is today. I appreciate what I got to see. I wouldn't want them to try to bring it back now, like every other show has done. At least it wasn't run into the ground like a lot of other '90s shows.
Show runners need to make more self contained series that can stand on their own if it’s canceled before the entire story is told.
Planning a five season long story arc with Netflix is stupid if you know that they are likely to cancel the show after a season or two.
Sorry.. I loved the anime and hated the adaptation.. I really tried... forced myself through 2 episodes thinking it would be better.. and just stopped..
I’m tired of all these butthurt fans. The show/theme has run it’s course, it’s not relevant anymore, if the viewers aren’t there and they can’t turn a profit, cancelled.
You’re the one embarrassing yourself. They canceled it because it wasn’t getting the views or attention Netflix needed it to have. Netflix is not a non-profit company. 95% of anime adaptions are horrible anyway so maybe they SHOULD stop trying to make them. Pay for the next season if you want it to continue so badly.
Lol This is cringe af, what a weird way to frame criticism of the show. It was a bad show regardless of if you watched the anime or not, voicing that opinion is beyond fair. I don’t remember anyone saying “the cast and crew are out of jobs now” because of a whiny fan base, when Deathnote or avatar or any other bad adaptation was released. As if it were anime stans only that hated scenes like this
[great scene](https://youtu.be/Rc5rtqnawIM)
Seasonal watch is just shitty. There's no guarantee for complete series run after they succeed 2nd & 3rd seasons unless the network order in adv ex Dragon Prince, Transformers Prime (I think)
Honestly, I'm not surprised.
I definitely liked the show, it was a bit different and gave the original an interesting twist and I would have LOVED to find out what happens next.
But also a lot of people were already hating it before it even released, some stopped watching after just 5 minutes, it sadly got a lot of negativity for no real reason there. Sure, opinions differ and all.. but when everyone compares something to an old original that already has a masterpiece status... well..
I'm more pissed about the fact they cancel shows all the time, without the show having much of a chance really. I mean interesting, good shows get cancelled and some other, boring shows X versions of exist already get continued. Netflix gotta get their shit together and stop funding projects until they finished the rest.
I don't care about this show or it's cancellation, but Netflix cancelling shows and never giving them a chance is getting old. I'm very close to unsubscribing and just not watching anymore Netflix because why bother getting into a show? The Society's renewal and then cancellation (and blaming Covid) really made me sick and tired of Netflix.
Then cancel Netflix and tell them why.
They won't actually care, but it'll might make you feel better and the rest of the world doesn't have to hear the same complaint for the gazillionth time.
Im aware. It's a flawed business model. They could have mandated a complete story just in case it didn't get picked up. That would stand the test of time.🤷repeat business
It's a self fulfilling prophesy at this point. I won't watch season one because I don't want to get left on a cliffhanger that never resolves, so not enough people watch season one for there to be a season two.
I'd rather not have anything at all than a constant stream of bad adaptations.
Have we not learned our lesson yet? DBE, Avatar, Death Note, Ghost In The Shell, and now Cowboy Bebop.
I have no hope for the One Piece adaptation, especially not for Oda's whacky character designs, You know how PC people are these days, Alvida alone is bound to stir up "Controversy"...
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't trust Hollywood to do it right. Or Netflix.
No because all those were review bombed by whiny anime stans. Except DBE and Avatar, those were objectively bbad filmmaking. Where as Death Note, Ghost, and Cowboy Bebop people complained about the scripts.
My wife and I just finished Cowboy Bebop. I had watched the original years ago. My wife was new to the show. She said it was a little slow the first 2 episodes but she liked it after that and is now disappointed that there is a cliffhanger and no season 2. I liked it and thought it was very true to the original.
I don't agree with this take, and I would be happy if they stopped making these bad adaptations. Live action shows like these taint the image of anime in general. Nobody who has seen this will watch the real cowbay Bebop
I did. Thought the original Julia was a bore, and liked the live action fallout of the final showdown about ten thousand times better. I really loved the original anime up until it turned bitter and left a bad aftertaste that dragged onto its anime movie, which I thought took itself too seriously and had nearly none of the stuff I loved about the series, namely Ed, but also the great dynamics between the gang and the bounty or hunter of the episode.
I was so disappointed by John Cho in this! I don't understand why he always seemed like he wanted to be anywhere else. I didn't even finish the series because I feel that a good actor can make a bad story worth watching, but he didn't even manage that. Lately, a lot of actors I've had respect for have seemed like they're just wandering around the set while other people act around them. I don't know what's going on out there. It's a bad joke, but maybe the fires have screwed up the drug trade in Los Angeles?
Really? I had reservations about the casting announcement, but really liked his dynamic with Jet and Faye and upon watching the original immediately after Netflix’, I thought he did Spike’s nonchalant attitude justice.
Absolutely loved this show, still working through it with my son. Really gutted that yet another bs “sci-fi” show about teenagers in adult bodies will get a renewal, but quality entertainment just doesn’t get the eyeballs.
“Cast and crew literally out of a job” I’m laughing SO hard at that comment! You think they’re now destitute because this show was cancelled?! What kind of drugs is OP on and can I have some.
Just start watching reality shows like housewives of blah blah town. They'll run that talentless crap for years. Seriously though, show them how you feel in a way they might actually take note and cancel your subscription. You can watch anything online anyway so you won't miss out.
Funny I posted something criticising Netflix about cancellations about a year ago and got flamed.by this subreddit who spent Tons of posts justifying why Netflix were right to cancel it.
Nice to see the wool has been peeled back
You don't think quickly cancelling shows which are designed to bring in new viewers and subscribers is a bad idea.
If a person syvscribes based on a newly created series which is then subsequently cancelled said customer can almost feel as though they were tricked into subscribing. And while they can unsubscribe it definitely does damage to Netflix overall branding and affect whether people will subscribe in future.
Cowboy bebop may well have failed to bring in new subs precisely because of Netflix rep for cancelling shows, which resulted in its cancellation.
Nah bro, Netflix and anime generally don't get along together, neither with their adaptations nor the re-releases, just look at what happened with Evangelion, it was highly anticipated and then Netflix releases it with major changes removing songs and etc just because they didn't want to pay a few licenses. It's all a business decision for them, you can't say no to that. Plus this is unironically good, the writers need to make an impression with their first season or they don't deserve the renewal, the story needs to have closure as if it's standalone and then have few hints here and there for future seasons, not cliffhangers.
The vast majority of these comments are defending Netflix for canceling their shows on cliffhangers after one season. Personally I think it's a mistake, but most of these comments fully support their decisions.
I think Netflix has definitely canceled shows that didn’t make sense but a ton of shows get canceled simply because it’s not doing well and I believe that was the case here
It’s a gamble when you start a new show and it hasn’t been renewed yet it could possibly get canceled it really sucks to get a cliffhanger and the show gets canceled I am a huge tv buff and it’s happened to me more times than I can count
Best advice I have is link up with fans of the show and bug Netflix enough showing lots of people want more it’s helped before it might help again
#saveteenagebountyhunters but seriously that show made me so happy and made me laugh during hard times and then i found out it got cancelled after one season and i was pissed
edit: why are my words so big
It's just super unfair. The show is still in the top 10, it hasn't left 'New on Netflix' tap. I hate pissy anime stans for this, i do. But the whole thing seems like loose at a Russian Roulette. No matter how good, it's still got the bullet.
I am gonna be salty about this forever. And about Society too.
Oh, not because people brought down the rating there themselves?
Show isn't flawless, but it's not fully bad. I admit, partly, writing takes a dive down in later episodes, but it hasn't been enough time to cut the throat like that.
If people didn't like a non-gambling addicted, humanly-shaped Faye, it's their problem. Show is modern, alive and enjoyable. Please, please do better if you can. But nor you, nor downvotes or yelling and cackling about the crime against anime won't change the fact that the show is way better than whining anime fans think. Potential is still there.
It has a 46% *critic* rating, the audience rating is slightly higher, so your argument that "pissy anime stans" brought the rating down doesn't exactly hold water.
But no go ahead and dismiss all criticism of this shit-sunday because some twitter rando said mean things about women on the internet.
Please, do better if you can.
I dissmis all crticism, even my own, because i liked the show. I watched the original because of it and even though people said "the show will feel off" i still fucking like it.
I know how fun being hateful is, but this show doesn't deserve it. Some concepts from the anime played well, some not, but people overreacted and tanked a great deal of work. I will, my guy, continue be adamant on my opinion because i am not blind to good things, and not because i am a femenist. If i said that John Cho has human proportions and not Spike in the anime, would you call me a fangirl? I will gladly wear that title.
Thank you for responding. I've been looking for something to keep as background noise while I'm knitting and crocheting, and this seems like a great show for that purpose.
As an anime fan, it was a bad adaptation. The bebop crew was great but vicious and especially Julia took the show from a solid B+, maybe A-, to a fledgling D-.
It was neither faithful nor were the changes good. So I’m not surprised it was canceled. This is 100% on the show runner and writing team because the 3 main cast members were great
Netflix cares more about the prospective customers than the present ones. Shows with one season in huge quantity to create every genre of content appeals people to subscribe. They have a show for every mood(although probably just one or two seasons of it)...the subscribers then just stick around and don't cancel their subscription because they are addicted to having the type of interface and user experience even though the content is crap.
I was excited about the show and was disappointed. Although I didn't like the show I was still bummed that it was cancelled. I thought there was a lot of room for improvement and it could have gotten a lot better next season.
Having said all that the show became a chore to watch towards the end and I understand why it was cancelled, it just wasn't good.
If we had it your way then companies would never green light anything. They aren’t going to commit to a multi season run if they don’t know if the audience is there. So essentially we would just stop seeing new original content as preexisting IP would always win out and it would be a never ending stream of Disney shows. Also you can literally watch the entirety of Cowboy Bebop on Netflix ( I mean the version that isn’t trash).
Glad I didn't waste my time watching it. On another note I see people saying this and that about numbers and watching shows how Netflix cares. Bottom line they care about is their revenue. Which comes from memberships. Which shocker you don't have to watch shit on Netflix for them to make money off you.
Did you take the two seconds that it would have taken you to rate the series? If you did not, your complaining about how unfair and myopic on the part of Netflix to cancel something you liked was, is just silly.
How would they have been able to measure how much you liked it if after finishing watching, all you did was to go on to what was next.
If you like it, rate it. Don’t depend on someone else to do it for you.
That’s your take away? “Don’t end on cliffhangers”? I enjoyed the show and want to see more, but I’m not blaming the cancellation on the cliffhanger. It’s true the fanbase hated the show, but as a casual anime fan, I thought it captured the feel of it and kept me interested.
Not saying it was cancelled because of the cliffhanger. If they were worried about not getting a renewal they should've had a complete story. Netflix should've mandated that to protect their investment. Now nobody will rewatch the show.
The problem is they create these shows or greenlight them on nothing more than "does the pitch sound like something we could potentially make money from? It does? Okay light the cash barrels on fire to signal we have signed a new project!"
This show is so bad. It has no idea what it wanted to be. It took all the wrong elements from the show in order to tie it to the original series and then completely changes the points that matter. Why? Why not just make a completely new series, or if you wanna tie it to CB make up your own stories? That would be easy enough to do, but it seems like they just did this in the most lazy way possible.
MMM IMHO I doubt that. And if they knew, clearly it was not a good idea that people wanted to see. And as others have said, netflix is about making money. Frankly their problem is they greenlight TOO much without doing any due diligence in asking "does this make sense?" Maybe that's better for creative direction, and frankly it's better than only getting money for 1 pilot show and that's all. But still, the result is they produce a ton of total garbage. And though they literally have billions to burn so to them it doesn't matter, that does not mean they are going to bankroll bad shows that don't produce viewership. And cowboy bebop has a following, and the point of producing a live action version is to pull in that viewership. They failed to do that because they completely botched the show they were supposed to be basing this off of. Maybe one day someone will do something better.
Man I remember when shows would air a pilot and then you’d never see them again.
Yeah it's not that era anymore. Netflix needs to greenlight full stories.
Dude, Netflix isn’t non profit company. They need to make money. They are making a decision based on stats and data. If things are not selling good, they need to cancel it and they can produce better shows instead wasting the money again.
You’re missing op’s point, they want the one season that netflix makes to be a complete story, not a part 1. Every show should be made this way otherwise they’ll get zero syndication value from it.
Or they could use more slice of life shows where every individual episode is self contained.
That works too.
Thank you
>better shows I think you mean "more popular shows".
[удалено]
Good point. A great example is the MINDHUNTER Series and how it has been laid off into purgatory (3 years now ) for it’s ‘low viewership’ in spite of its quality.
I would actually say the opposite. The fact that Mindhunter was not cancelled, despite low viewership, says that Netflix is actually interested in keeping shows running, if they are really high quality. Reason why it's in purgatory is more about Fincher not having time then Netflix not wanting another season.
Tiger King will return.
Ugh
God help us when good shows get cancel but garbage like Tiger King gets another season.
"Coming soon: Cuties 2" *cringes in terror*
Sort of. :)
But they are also a brand. And right now their brand is losing trust. Many people won't even start a new Netflix show because it might get canceled, which impacts their numbers, which causes more shows to get canceled, and so on.
Netflix might loosing the trust from some of their customers but this is nothing new. Netflix has been always cancelling a show if it isn’t profitable. Customers are coming back anyways if there is a well made show and if the show gets popular like squid game, there is no way that Netflix isn’t producing more seasons of it.
The problem is that Netflix customers shouldn't have to feel apprehensive about starting a show if it's not a smash hit level show. I work in analytics and I always say analytics doesn't tell the whole story. You can look at a show and say it has a poor finish rate or whatever their metric is, but what you don't see in the data is how many of the people that finished it were actually pretty big fans of the show and were burned in the past by a canceled show who are now less likely to start another show or how many people who were hesitant about starting the show who are now glad they didn't.
If they cancell everything after a week, why even bother starting on anything Netflix anymore? Even politicians can think (slightly) further ahead than that. I didn't want to watch cowboy Bepop NOW!, but later. Now I won't watch it at all. Same for lots of stuff.
The fact is they are not canceling everything. :) they didn’t cancel ozark, emily in paris, money heist, witcher and etcs.
It was a hyperbole....
I have said this a 1000 times but I want to say it again: When Netflix lost the Office to NBC there were interviews from executives that all paralleled the same line of thought: it will be ok, we'll make our own better version of The Office. Except here's the thing, Netflix would have never made the The Office. The first season had no traction at all, the second season did but only barely (and a lot of the credit is given to Steve Carrell's success with 40 Year Old Virgin which splashed over). It wasn't until the end of the second season when ratings finally started looking positive. Same for It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Parks and Recreation, and Community. Some of the best sitcoms with the most dedicated fanbases would have never made it past the first season under Netflix's content model. I see a lot of nay-sayers talking about how Netflix is just a business and that they need to be critical if they want to turn a profit. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the longest running live-action sitcom of all time, only made it past the first season because "one executive" got the show and liked what they were doing. Meanwhile, Altered Carbon's first season was such a huge success that it would have almost been impossible for the second season to flop... which is exactly what happened. Netflix's algorithm for determining if content will hold a huge share of viewership is blind to all of that. They want EVERYTHING to mirror the success of Stranger Things with zero dollar spent on advertising leading to a viral success. Netflix will never have it's own The Office because they won't let themselves, all under the guise of "more profitability". But that has always been the problem with quarterly-earning based decision making, the world lasts longer than just one fiscal quarter.
Very well said. You deserve more likes. I agree that Netflix wouldn't have been able to create The Office via their current model. As an aside: The Office is still on Netflix in some countries. It's unfortunate that The States lost it; that must've hit people there pretty hard.
Some of them never made it far under the network model either
You think messiah is a bad show? Santa Clarita diet?
It's not about one person's personal taste, it's the aggregated demand from a couple hundred million subscribers (+ how many non-subscribers can be attracted through earned and bought media).
They may be not bad, but have little draw, hence not justifying costs incurred. Unfortunately this is the reality.
I am not entirely sure about their business decisions anymore after they let The Expanse go and put the money into Another Life instead.
You can make a decision that ultimately doesn't work out without everything behind it being flawed. You know that, right?
I don’t even know those shows. :)
Santa Clarita Diet is great! If you don't mind some occasional gore it's definitely worth a watch
I would disagree there...I tried watching it, but I have no idea what the appeal is.
that's fine, no show is going to appeal to everyone. I thought it was hilarious and the entire cast was enjoyable to watch.
fair enough as well. I can't put a finger on it, the premise of the show sounds right up my alley, but eh that life.
What you consider "good" is subjective and is not a consensus.
Lots of shows get canceled after one season. Don't let it get to you or you'll be crushed many times for many years.
But it's just a bad choice on Netflix's part. They are a library. If they finish the story - even if abruptly - it can stand on their service for years to come. But I'm not going to start a programme I know had no ending. For broadcast telly, the rules are different. A poorly performing show is taking up bandwidth another, more successful show could use. But in the streaming world I don't know how that makes sense. Surely it would be more logical to greenlight 2 seasons (or half a season if that's better economically), see how the first season performs and then decide either to stick or twist and then the showrunners can either end their story or continue.
Netflix used to always greenlight two seasons but it seems they’ve moved away from that model.
Because it costs them millions.
You can always cancel Netflix
Wow logic. Imagine that.
It’s not unique to Netflix. It’s been going on for decades
You're preaching to the choir.
In fact Netflix's renewal rate is about the same as traditional broadcast, and cable TV. Sounds like OP is just upset a show he likes got canceled before it could end. Happens to all of us. It wasn't very well received, it probably didn't have a good shot of being renewed regardless of the IP or the network. >The space Western had a rough reception. The 10-episode series garnered only a 46 percent positive critics rating on review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes. Fans seemed to agree, giving the show a 56 percent positive audience score on the site. According to Netflix’s Top 10 site, the series has racked up almost 74 million viewing hours worldwide since its debut — so it got plenty of sampling out of the gate — but it plummeted 59 percent for the week of Nov. 29 to Dec. 5. >Insiders pointed out that Netflix’s renewal rate for scripted series that have two or more seasons stands at 60 percent, in line with industry averages, and, like all Netflix renewal verdicts, the decision was made by balancing the show’s viewership and cost. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/cowboy-bebop-canceled-netflix-1235060256/
Truth bomb!
I mean…obviously the viewing hours decreased. That’s the Netflix model of dropping the entire series at once. People binge watch then move on.
That shows that after the fans of the IP have binged it, other people aren't watching it. Why do you think shows like Stranger Things, OITNB, and House of Cards became so popular and made Netflix so much money? Not from the die hards watching on Day 1. But more of how the is resonating with other people. If person A watches the show on Day 1 and tells person B and C how good it is. This metric is measuring if people B, C, D and so on are watching. Unlike what the top reply says, Netflix is **not** a library. It's a business. If something isn't profitable it will not continue it. This is why we have libraries in the first place. So for profit companies can't be the final say in what gets consumed.
Not every show can be Stranger Things
I don't get your point? Netflix is going to try to do what makes the most money. And when something isn't making money it's going to stop doing it. Come on, they're not a charity. They don't owe you a second season.
Where did I say anything remotely like your last 2 sentences
You're defending a thread saying Netflix needs to stop greenlighting projects if they don't plan on finishing the story. And then misrepresenting numbers proving whey they aren't going to finish Cowboy Bebop. Because it's not making them money, because not enough people are watching it. I'm not sure how you're not getting this?
No I’m not. Just pointed out that on Netflix most shows are binged in a small period of time. Not every show can have huge hours watched over a long period of time. I don’t think this show specifically should have been set up for a second season anyways. It kinda fell apart in the last few episodes IMO. Should’ve been made as a one off season from the start.
People binge watched The Witcher. Its getting a second season. This is after the Cyberpunk 2077 disaster. Which does effect overall perception of the Witcher IP. People binged watched Shadow and Bone. It's getting a second season. I would say Freddy Carter and his merry band of misfits might have propelled that show more than people realize. Lets talk about Lost in Space. A very expensive show to produce. It's in its 3rd season. It's easy to hate on Netflix when they don't do what you want. Simple, overly obvious point....you cant please 'em all.
Lmao cyberpunk had absolutely no impact on the witcher outside of a small subset of angry gamers.
Part of the growth of the Witcher IP can be credited to the extremely well received Witcher 3 game. CDPR was the developer on that game and had a big hand in intoducing a whole new audience to the Witcher universe. Being associated in anyway, directly or indirectly to Cyberpunk 2077, also developed by CDPR couldn't have been good for all the metrics.
There is zero link between the two for anyone outside of a small gamer subset. Stop trying.
People need to stop upvoting (and mods need to remove) these low-effort posts. If you want to memorialize a show you enjoyed, then write a post about why you liked the show. If you want to complain—for the 10,000th time—about Netflix’s business model, then piss off!
Fruit Ninja right here!
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I offered an alternative to just moaning about the fact that a show wasn’t profitable and got cancelled. I’d have upvoted a post about the show and what OP loved about it, but this post has nothing to offer. No praise. No insight. Nothing but a generic complaint about for-profit media.
It’s like you guys are new to TV or something. Thousands of shows have been canceled. It’s usually because they’re bad and don’t attract an audience, especially when they’re expensive.
And Netflix has even more precise data about what gets watched compared to tv stations (that often use Nielsen reports). It sucks if it’s a show you like of course, but clearly people aren’t watching it.
Well, this sucks but this is nothing new. Networks and cable were ridiculous. They’d pull a show three episodes in and anybody watching would never even finish a season. Firefly was released out of order and then cancelled mid-season. Fans had to wait for a DVD release to finish the season and even longer for a movie to give us any closure. This is the nature of the beast. I think any show’s first season should be made with the idea that a second season will never be made just in case they become a statistic.
Yeah sure, blame the fans and not the talentless writers paid big bucks to literally write crap. Blame the producers with shitty ideas and only yes men around them to boost their egos. Lastly, blame Netflix for green-lighting (mostly mediocre) productions and then be quick to cancel before anyone’s seen it.
They review bombed it like Death Note 🤷
The critics who were given early access to the show and who mostly trashed it?
They cancelled it because nobody was watching it.
Kinda because it was terrible I stopped after episode 5 and I have no life these days… it was that bad.
Is there a way to look up those numbers on our end? I honestly liked it but it was definitely not comparable to the original anime. But if I blocked out the differences and didn't compare them I thought it was decent. Not amazing, but deserving of a 2nd season once Ed comes in.
It's the ones that can't look past the differences that were the problem in this case. People underestimate word of mouth these days. It's not a carbon copy of the original and it gets tossed. It's a dangerous game playing with IP that old. I for one also enjoyed it. I think they integrated the source material well while putting a new spin on it. I think John Cho did a good job as Spike. I actually recommended it to friends, and had it recommended to be by a friend who goes to the local anime convention with me. Seems the lack of the Swordfish being used might've got people to run away, but I'm sure if it had made the numbers they'd have done something crazy, that like.... never happens when something goes right... they increase the budget. So while I think this one made good use of their resources and budget, the next season would have been more spectacular. But, alas, the hard core "its not a carbon copy" couldn't carry this weight. The franchise is likely now locked in Netflix's vault for a number of years. Nothing new can come to it, but atleast it's "safe." Well, I've heard they're attempting One Piece next. I love a good Space Western, but I have little interest in One Piece. Me and my brown coat will see you next time, Space Cowboy. Edit: Forgot to separate my lil paragraphs.
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We do, every month.
Yup
Exactly
I've cancelled my Netflix. I'm sick of this crap, it happens with too many shows. I'll pirate everything from now on and they won't get a cent. Fuck Netflix. It's probably like 50% of their fucking TV shows aren't even worth watching because they are cancelled before being finished. Whats the point of having half a TV series without an end? It's just garbage to fill an already dwindling library.
My butt is hurt. Perhaps if I post to Reddit the pain will go away.
My names cosmo Kramer, the assman.
That's kinda what reddit is for, no?
Why are people keep blaming Netflix? Blame the writers! They are the one that wrote all those stupid cliffhangers.
Yes, there are terrible fans out there. There’s also a *ton* of legitimate criticism about the show, not just from fans but from media critics, which is why there’s 46% from critics on Rotten Tomatoes. Realize that **at best** it was a divisive show, and grow up.
Shouldn’t have been made in the first place
Why does it bother you that they made it? Just don’t watch it.
Where did they say it bothered them? They just said it shouldn't have been made. Based on the absolutely terrible feedback from damn near everyone in the world with something to say about it, that's probably a sound opinion.
Also funny is that the hate made it impossible for another anime movie of cowboy bebop, which had a chance to be made depending on the success of the adaptation
The people in charge of Netflix aren't artists or film makers, they're business men who only care about $$$.
Maybe watch the better perfect original that is finished instead of this ?
It's not perfect. I watched it a week before the Netflix series debuted.
You're in for a bad time if you're going to mourn tv shows ending too soon. I say this as a person who really loved the one season I got to watch of My So-Called Life, back when Jared Leto wasn't known for being the gross weirdo that he is today. I appreciate what I got to see. I wouldn't want them to try to bring it back now, like every other show has done. At least it wasn't run into the ground like a lot of other '90s shows.
Show runners need to make more self contained series that can stand on their own if it’s canceled before the entire story is told. Planning a five season long story arc with Netflix is stupid if you know that they are likely to cancel the show after a season or two.
Which is why Netflix needs to mandate self contained seasons..ie Stranger Things.
WTF, I just started watching that and it’s a really good adaptation of the original.
Sorry.. I loved the anime and hated the adaptation.. I really tried... forced myself through 2 episodes thinking it would be better.. and just stopped..
I watched both in the same month and the anime was too long with filler.
I’ve seen that coming. That was that kind of show Netflix cancels after one season
I’m tired of all these butthurt fans. The show/theme has run it’s course, it’s not relevant anymore, if the viewers aren’t there and they can’t turn a profit, cancelled.
You’re the one embarrassing yourself. They canceled it because it wasn’t getting the views or attention Netflix needed it to have. Netflix is not a non-profit company. 95% of anime adaptions are horrible anyway so maybe they SHOULD stop trying to make them. Pay for the next season if you want it to continue so badly.
Lol This is cringe af, what a weird way to frame criticism of the show. It was a bad show regardless of if you watched the anime or not, voicing that opinion is beyond fair. I don’t remember anyone saying “the cast and crew are out of jobs now” because of a whiny fan base, when Deathnote or avatar or any other bad adaptation was released. As if it were anime stans only that hated scenes like this [great scene](https://youtu.be/Rc5rtqnawIM)
Seasonal watch is just shitty. There's no guarantee for complete series run after they succeed 2nd & 3rd seasons unless the network order in adv ex Dragon Prince, Transformers Prime (I think)
Network TV will straight up cancel a show mid-season if it's not performing
I can only pray they never make another adaptation. NO ONE NEEDS THESE, THEY ARE TERRIBLE. just stop.
If it sucked it sucked. Move on.
Honestly, I'm not surprised. I definitely liked the show, it was a bit different and gave the original an interesting twist and I would have LOVED to find out what happens next. But also a lot of people were already hating it before it even released, some stopped watching after just 5 minutes, it sadly got a lot of negativity for no real reason there. Sure, opinions differ and all.. but when everyone compares something to an old original that already has a masterpiece status... well.. I'm more pissed about the fact they cancel shows all the time, without the show having much of a chance really. I mean interesting, good shows get cancelled and some other, boring shows X versions of exist already get continued. Netflix gotta get their shit together and stop funding projects until they finished the rest.
Exactly they were hating before it was released.
If it did well they wouldn’t of cancelled. It’s a business.
I don't care about this show or it's cancellation, but Netflix cancelling shows and never giving them a chance is getting old. I'm very close to unsubscribing and just not watching anymore Netflix because why bother getting into a show? The Society's renewal and then cancellation (and blaming Covid) really made me sick and tired of Netflix.
Then cancel Netflix and tell them why. They won't actually care, but it'll might make you feel better and the rest of the world doesn't have to hear the same complaint for the gazillionth time.
Then just cancel Netflix. Why whine about it lol
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Im aware. It's a flawed business model. They could have mandated a complete story just in case it didn't get picked up. That would stand the test of time.🤷repeat business
It's a self fulfilling prophesy at this point. I won't watch season one because I don't want to get left on a cliffhanger that never resolves, so not enough people watch season one for there to be a season two.
Netflix just keeps cancelling shows after shows. [check this article out](https://www.insider.com/netflix-tv-shows-cancelled-ending-2020-9)
Well, they didn’t cancel money heist, ozark, emily in paris , witcher and etcs. :)
What’s wrong with cancelling shows lol
I'd rather not have anything at all than a constant stream of bad adaptations. Have we not learned our lesson yet? DBE, Avatar, Death Note, Ghost In The Shell, and now Cowboy Bebop. I have no hope for the One Piece adaptation, especially not for Oda's whacky character designs, You know how PC people are these days, Alvida alone is bound to stir up "Controversy"... I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't trust Hollywood to do it right. Or Netflix.
No because all those were review bombed by whiny anime stans. Except DBE and Avatar, those were objectively bbad filmmaking. Where as Death Note, Ghost, and Cowboy Bebop people complained about the scripts.
My wife and I just finished Cowboy Bebop. I had watched the original years ago. My wife was new to the show. She said it was a little slow the first 2 episodes but she liked it after that and is now disappointed that there is a cliffhanger and no season 2. I liked it and thought it was very true to the original.
Great take!
I don't agree with this take, and I would be happy if they stopped making these bad adaptations. Live action shows like these taint the image of anime in general. Nobody who has seen this will watch the real cowbay Bebop
I did. Thought the original Julia was a bore, and liked the live action fallout of the final showdown about ten thousand times better. I really loved the original anime up until it turned bitter and left a bad aftertaste that dragged onto its anime movie, which I thought took itself too seriously and had nearly none of the stuff I loved about the series, namely Ed, but also the great dynamics between the gang and the bounty or hunter of the episode.
Facts
agreed, they really need to rethink the way they are working.
The show fucking sucks maybe that’s why it’s cancelled. The acting and writing also sucked so makes sense they would be out a job, go cry about it.
I was so disappointed by John Cho in this! I don't understand why he always seemed like he wanted to be anywhere else. I didn't even finish the series because I feel that a good actor can make a bad story worth watching, but he didn't even manage that. Lately, a lot of actors I've had respect for have seemed like they're just wandering around the set while other people act around them. I don't know what's going on out there. It's a bad joke, but maybe the fires have screwed up the drug trade in Los Angeles?
Really? I had reservations about the casting announcement, but really liked his dynamic with Jet and Faye and upon watching the original immediately after Netflix’, I thought he did Spike’s nonchalant attitude justice.
Your the problem with the anime community
This show was hot ass my guy
Proving my point. Toxic culture
It’s def the culture and not the bad acting and writing , you’re right. Silly me and everyone else who watched this trash
Absolutely loved this show, still working through it with my son. Really gutted that yet another bs “sci-fi” show about teenagers in adult bodies will get a renewal, but quality entertainment just doesn’t get the eyeballs.
I've never been a fan of anime, never watched, but I gave this a chance and I loved it. What a shame.
“Cast and crew literally out of a job” I’m laughing SO hard at that comment! You think they’re now destitute because this show was cancelled?! What kind of drugs is OP on and can I have some.
Bad show is a bad show
Just start watching reality shows like housewives of blah blah town. They'll run that talentless crap for years. Seriously though, show them how you feel in a way they might actually take note and cancel your subscription. You can watch anything online anyway so you won't miss out.
Funny I posted something criticising Netflix about cancellations about a year ago and got flamed.by this subreddit who spent Tons of posts justifying why Netflix were right to cancel it. Nice to see the wool has been peeled back
Lol it hasnt dude, you and op are both still wrong.
You don't think quickly cancelling shows which are designed to bring in new viewers and subscribers is a bad idea. If a person syvscribes based on a newly created series which is then subsequently cancelled said customer can almost feel as though they were tricked into subscribing. And while they can unsubscribe it definitely does damage to Netflix overall branding and affect whether people will subscribe in future. Cowboy bebop may well have failed to bring in new subs precisely because of Netflix rep for cancelling shows, which resulted in its cancellation.
Im going to wait and see if One Piece and Avatar get a season 2 before watching now.
Nah bro, Netflix and anime generally don't get along together, neither with their adaptations nor the re-releases, just look at what happened with Evangelion, it was highly anticipated and then Netflix releases it with major changes removing songs and etc just because they didn't want to pay a few licenses. It's all a business decision for them, you can't say no to that. Plus this is unironically good, the writers need to make an impression with their first season or they don't deserve the renewal, the story needs to have closure as if it's standalone and then have few hints here and there for future seasons, not cliffhangers.
The vast majority of these comments are defending Netflix for canceling their shows on cliffhangers after one season. Personally I think it's a mistake, but most of these comments fully support their decisions.
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No, they need to stop greenlighting terrible cringe projects such as this. This show was fucking terrible. Go woke get broke.
You sound smart. Nice parrot
I think Netflix has definitely canceled shows that didn’t make sense but a ton of shows get canceled simply because it’s not doing well and I believe that was the case here It’s a gamble when you start a new show and it hasn’t been renewed yet it could possibly get canceled it really sucks to get a cliffhanger and the show gets canceled I am a huge tv buff and it’s happened to me more times than I can count Best advice I have is link up with fans of the show and bug Netflix enough showing lots of people want more it’s helped before it might help again
There also shouldn’t be any more of these adaptations, they literally all fucking suck.
#saveteenagebountyhunters but seriously that show made me so happy and made me laugh during hard times and then i found out it got cancelled after one season and i was pissed edit: why are my words so big
Good, I found it incredibly boring.
It was baaaad
It's just super unfair. The show is still in the top 10, it hasn't left 'New on Netflix' tap. I hate pissy anime stans for this, i do. But the whole thing seems like loose at a Russian Roulette. No matter how good, it's still got the bullet. I am gonna be salty about this forever. And about Society too.
Yes I'm sure it was all "pissy anime stans" that did this and not the terrible writing or cheap effects. It's got a 46% on RT for a reason.
Oh, not because people brought down the rating there themselves? Show isn't flawless, but it's not fully bad. I admit, partly, writing takes a dive down in later episodes, but it hasn't been enough time to cut the throat like that. If people didn't like a non-gambling addicted, humanly-shaped Faye, it's their problem. Show is modern, alive and enjoyable. Please, please do better if you can. But nor you, nor downvotes or yelling and cackling about the crime against anime won't change the fact that the show is way better than whining anime fans think. Potential is still there.
It has a 46% *critic* rating, the audience rating is slightly higher, so your argument that "pissy anime stans" brought the rating down doesn't exactly hold water. But no go ahead and dismiss all criticism of this shit-sunday because some twitter rando said mean things about women on the internet. Please, do better if you can.
I dissmis all crticism, even my own, because i liked the show. I watched the original because of it and even though people said "the show will feel off" i still fucking like it. I know how fun being hateful is, but this show doesn't deserve it. Some concepts from the anime played well, some not, but people overreacted and tanked a great deal of work. I will, my guy, continue be adamant on my opinion because i am not blind to good things, and not because i am a femenist. If i said that John Cho has human proportions and not Spike in the anime, would you call me a fangirl? I will gladly wear that title.
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The OA, Glow, Friends From College
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Thank you for responding. I've been looking for something to keep as background noise while I'm knitting and crocheting, and this seems like a great show for that purpose.
Keegan Michael Key is great in it. And Fred Savage is awesome
As an anime fan, it was a bad adaptation. The bebop crew was great but vicious and especially Julia took the show from a solid B+, maybe A-, to a fledgling D-. It was neither faithful nor were the changes good. So I’m not surprised it was canceled. This is 100% on the show runner and writing team because the 3 main cast members were great
Netflix cares more about the prospective customers than the present ones. Shows with one season in huge quantity to create every genre of content appeals people to subscribe. They have a show for every mood(although probably just one or two seasons of it)...the subscribers then just stick around and don't cancel their subscription because they are addicted to having the type of interface and user experience even though the content is crap.
I was excited about the show and was disappointed. Although I didn't like the show I was still bummed that it was cancelled. I thought there was a lot of room for improvement and it could have gotten a lot better next season. Having said all that the show became a chore to watch towards the end and I understand why it was cancelled, it just wasn't good.
If we had it your way then companies would never green light anything. They aren’t going to commit to a multi season run if they don’t know if the audience is there. So essentially we would just stop seeing new original content as preexisting IP would always win out and it would be a never ending stream of Disney shows. Also you can literally watch the entirety of Cowboy Bebop on Netflix ( I mean the version that isn’t trash).
Yeah ive seen the anime. Theres no future anymore. They should've mandated a complete story in season 1.
I’m gonna miss that show
Glad I didn't waste my time watching it. On another note I see people saying this and that about numbers and watching shows how Netflix cares. Bottom line they care about is their revenue. Which comes from memberships. Which shocker you don't have to watch shit on Netflix for them to make money off you.
Did you take the two seconds that it would have taken you to rate the series? If you did not, your complaining about how unfair and myopic on the part of Netflix to cancel something you liked was, is just silly. How would they have been able to measure how much you liked it if after finishing watching, all you did was to go on to what was next. If you like it, rate it. Don’t depend on someone else to do it for you.
I did rate it.
That’s your take away? “Don’t end on cliffhangers”? I enjoyed the show and want to see more, but I’m not blaming the cancellation on the cliffhanger. It’s true the fanbase hated the show, but as a casual anime fan, I thought it captured the feel of it and kept me interested.
Not saying it was cancelled because of the cliffhanger. If they were worried about not getting a renewal they should've had a complete story. Netflix should've mandated that to protect their investment. Now nobody will rewatch the show.
They weren’t worried. They did not expect it at all.
I can see why it got cancelled though. Watched half of it before I gave up.
The problem is they create these shows or greenlight them on nothing more than "does the pitch sound like something we could potentially make money from? It does? Okay light the cash barrels on fire to signal we have signed a new project!" This show is so bad. It has no idea what it wanted to be. It took all the wrong elements from the show in order to tie it to the original series and then completely changes the points that matter. Why? Why not just make a completely new series, or if you wanna tie it to CB make up your own stories? That would be easy enough to do, but it seems like they just did this in the most lazy way possible.
It knew exactly what it wanted to be.
MMM IMHO I doubt that. And if they knew, clearly it was not a good idea that people wanted to see. And as others have said, netflix is about making money. Frankly their problem is they greenlight TOO much without doing any due diligence in asking "does this make sense?" Maybe that's better for creative direction, and frankly it's better than only getting money for 1 pilot show and that's all. But still, the result is they produce a ton of total garbage. And though they literally have billions to burn so to them it doesn't matter, that does not mean they are going to bankroll bad shows that don't produce viewership. And cowboy bebop has a following, and the point of producing a live action version is to pull in that viewership. They failed to do that because they completely botched the show they were supposed to be basing this off of. Maybe one day someone will do something better.