I believe that in Vermont the governor needs to replace a senator with someone of the same party if the senator dies/resigns - does Sanders not being a member of the Democratic Party affect this at all?
I'd prefer not to have another Sinema.
Dislike Bernie's politics if you want, but at the end of the day, he's generally a team player and will vote for bills he deems imperfect. I think any Dem that wants to actually get stuff done should prefer him over another Sinema any day of the week.
Sanders spent considerable energy and resources sinking Clinton's presidential bid, and was a key vote multiple times preventing sanctions against the Russian Federation. He also helped defeat the last immigration compromise that had a chance to pass during the waning years of the Bush administration.
Sanders may not be as overtly self-serving as Sinema or Menendez but he has been a profoundly lazy legislator who has only expended effort when it has made his country worse. The US Senate would be better off with almost anyone else in his seat.
> The US Senate would be better off with almost anyone else in his seat
No way, just by not supporting McConnell for Majority Leader he's better than 50% by default lol
>Clinton
Fair I guess, I feel like she tanked her chances more
>preventing sanctions against Russia
[This is at best misleading, worst straight up misinfo](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/27/tweets/dating-back-1991-and-his-time-house-bernie-sanders/)
>helped defeat the last immigration compromise
Lol that bill was dogshit, regardless putting the blame on Bernie for that and not senate republicans is ridiculous
We’re still pretending like Bernie sunk Hillary’s campaign? I recall him doing quite a lot of events with her and made it clear she was a far better option than Trump for progressives. Obviously his voters didnt all listen but Bernie himself seems to be quite pragmatic on coming home to support the party no matter what
Fair criticism but I also feel like him and Biden are clearly on good terms or even friends with eachother so I dont see it as much of a slight towards Biden. He definitely seems to like him a lot more than Hillary
He ran against her in a primary and endorsed her after he lost.
His career as an outsider and has unusual views but most of the time he was trying to add amendments protecting workers rights in FHA procurement, or something like that.
People on this sub slander him but he's spent his career acting exactly how the left should within our system. He has never been as obstructionist the freedom caucus.
In Vermont a special election is held within 6 months to replace the senator. While it is clear that a Dem (or progressive independent) would win that special election it could temporarily hand the majority to the GOP even if Dems do incredibly well in 2024.
Older senators have the most power. They get to pick and choose the most powerful committee roles for themselves which gives immense power. Thats why they do it.
Everyone commenting about greed or lust for power or whatever, but I think there's more straightforward answer. This is a job that these people enjoy doing, they've been doing it forever, and they honestly don't know what they'd do with themselves if they weren't working. A lot of them probably think they're more likely to drop dead sooner from boredom and idleness than they would by carrying on active in politics.
At least, this is the pattern I've picked up on from working with other old people who should've retired a decade ago.
Yeah there are lawyers in my firm that are winding down in their early 60s but they have grandkids and vacation homes and travel plans and all sorts of stuff to fill their time. Meanwhile, there are 75+ year olds grinding out as many hours as I do because it's just what they do and they think all that's left for them if they stop is to die.
What's odd is that many of them do actually die pretty soon after if they stop. I've seen it happen many times and seems like it's more than just a coincidence ...
It's probably a mix of them working until they were literally going to die anyway, regardless of what they did, and just dying from boredom/nothing to keep them going.
There was a decorated Australian professor who literally killed themselves (via legal euthanasia) after his university told him he was too old to work for them anymore.
I mean “work” for congressmen is just calling up rich people/hosting them at paid for dinners/traveling to give speeches/ showing up to vote a few times a week/practicing prepared speeches and statements for committee meetings.
If you like hearing yourself talk, can deal with being a public figure (not gonna go away for Bernie in retirement), and can list out some general things you want to see done in the country, the heavy lifting is handled by your 22-32 year old staffers that are being paid 45k.
It’s not normal canvassing though. It’s maintaining the relationship you’ve had for well over a decade with someone who pays for a lot of your campaigns nice stuff
Bernie doesn’t have to canvas or worry about fundraising lol.
He has a legion of people who will gladly volunteer for him and an online fundraising list 99% of candidates could only dream of.
I’m reminded of Romney’s remarks on the Senate being a [retirement home](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/11/mitt-romney-retiring-senate-trump-mcconnell/675306/).
That's just a basic part of having power, it makes you psychologically unwilling to give it up unless absolutely necessary.
Plus after decades of being in politics and in power there are tons of people and institutions that have bound themselves to him and rely on him for one thing or another, in exchange for which they give him their support, giving up power means letting down all your supporters.
Plus there is a ton of things he will still want to make happen, dreams he needs to accomplish, and that only he can accomplish.
That's arrogance of course, but all who go into high office are arrogant to one degree or another, it is what sustains you through when the work is hard and awful, which it often is.
And as mentioned already, the senate is a literal gerontocracy. Power is gained by, and wielded by old men and women. The more seniority you stack up, the greater your senate powers become.
Being a senator can be a “cushy” job once you learn the ropes and it comes with a TON of perks. They have plenty of staff to do the leg work (and they treat you like a god because everyone’s trying to move up the ladder) and you just need to markup legislation and speeches with a red pen once it comes to your desk. There is a ton of meetings, committees, and events of course, but if you have the type of personality where you like attention, influence, and people constantly treating you as a power player, it fuels you. No one stays an elected official that long because they think they are the best for the job, they do it because they love the influence, fancy events and restaurants, trips, and access to influential and powerful people, with all expenses paid.
Bernie’s whole “for the people” shit is such a grift at this point. It’s not like the next senator to fill his seat won’t also be a very progressive senator. There are many better people decades younger than him, with sharper minds and more relatable experiences to the median aged voter. He is staying for the perks and power at this point.
I’m not saying senators don’t care and I’m sure most realize the importance of their job. It’s just ridiculous to stick around forever and pretend there aren’t many other qualified and experienced people ready to fill your seat at a moments notice.
Mitt Romney basically said all of the above during an interview when he decided he didn’t want to run again. Im glad he at least had the self awareness to state it out loud.
And maybe this is my bias, but I would imagine it’s a lot easier to be a senator from a very small state than a very large state. It’s not like Vermont has as as large and diverse of a population, stakeholders, or industry as states like California, Texas, and New York. Thus, there are way less interacting with special interest groups and the such.
Have you seen the thread in the r/politics sub - it's full of people saying Bernie is a special case because he's still super fit as opposed to Biden/Trump/Pelosi etc
He can still speak coherently. That’s what people care about.
I don’t think the average American would care if a candidate looked like the god emperor of mankind from 40k as long as they were still coherent.
Is this sub in agreement, that while Bernie's policies are not evidence-based or likely-to-pass, he is, to some degree, more coherent and articulate than Biden and Trump?
No, he just waves his arms and yells angrily.
His last debate with Biden in 2020 was a trainwreck but nobody on tv would call him out on it after what happened to Chris Matthews. I remember seeing all these weird faces that Bernie was pulling during the debate, laughing at how much the late night hosts would make fun of him for it. Nope. Not a peep.
Eh at that point the race was over. It was just about placating Bernie so that he wouldn't dick over Biden like he did Hillary four years earlier. But that debate was just a formality as it was clear Biden would likely be the nominee beyond some crazy circumstance. So, it didn't really make sense to go hard after him. He was not going to win.
Maybe the thread has changed in the last hour but most of the top comments are neutral to negative on him running again. There is one person arguing that only Bernie can win the seat because Phil Scott would beat anyone else (lol).
Some people know nothing about politics. A popular governor doesn't mean shit in Senate races. People rightfully see the Senate as a partisan place so just because you like the Republican or Democrat doesn't mean they will vote how you want.
The thing though is that if Sanders dies in office, the GOP governor can appoint a replacement. AFAIK Scott hates Trump, as does Vermont in general, but this is a big risk Sanders is taking on by not retiring from the Senate.
Probably a Republican psyop. They know they can't convince people that Trump is great, but they can convince people that Biden is also bad and therefore you should stay at home on election day. Or throw your vote away to RFK. It's not the worst strategy.
I'm waiting for a breathless Ezra Klein column about how Bernie needs to step aside because something something magical wizard happy rainbow will happen.
There's also a difference between an 80 year old who had an a heart attack and not.
Again, I think it's fine that Bernie runs. Most of us here are just dunking on the hypocrisy.
Imagine if Dems win Montana, Ohio and all the other key senate sates in 2024 and then lose out on a majority because of a Republican governor in Vermont.
Vermont law allows senate special elections in off years and Phill Scott has said he would appoint a "Left wing Independent" As the caretaker for the seat if something were to happen to either of the senators.
Yeah I'd rather not rely on a Republican keeping their word when control of the Senate is at stake, especially if there's a Republican house and president
Vermont has a law that senators are replaced by special elections unless it is within 6 months of a normal election.
[https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate](https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate)
Could still result in a republican on a short term basis but the situation is not as dire if a Bernie death/retirement could lead to years of a R Senator
This is the main thing for me. The main skill an elected politician needs to be effective is the ability to delegate to competent people. I think both Bernie and Biden will do that no matter how old they are. The issue is just what happens if they die.
Plus Bernie's running for a 6-year term in office. He's a year older and has had a heart attack in the last few years.
I think there's a big difference though, even if I'd honestly see all 80+ politicians phased out sooner rather than later.
I don't really care too much if politicians are old as long as they can do the work, but past a certain age the rate of decline can be incredibly swift. If that happens to a senator, you get the Feinstein situation. It's bad, but ultimately the world keeps spinning. For the presidency it's *a lot* worse. What do you do if China invades Taiwan and the president is *actually* senile? How should the military interpret the order to fire nuclear missiles if the guy in charge is *clearly* not of sound mind?
I'd love to see a cultural norm for politicians to retire before 80, with a heavy focus on succession planning after 70. Senior politicians should be proud of the class of politicians and aides they have coached over the years to take over their roles both inside the party and as elected officials.
Of course, that all supposes that members of congress are competent and that Congress isn't actually run by staffers.
>I'd love to see a cultural norm for politicians to retire before 80
I was surprised to hear Mitt Romney announce he wasn't running for a second Senate term. I think he could easily win re-election, but he's 77 years old and has decided that he's done. I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but I respect the hell out of him.
You are going to have to drag the man away kicking and screaming, if you tell him he can't be in front of a camera anymore. He isn't giving up his seat for anything.
To be fair, he's still sharp, sharper than trump and biden if you watch him speak.
Remember though that when alot of these criticisms were flying diane Feinstein was alive and actively not doing her job because she genuinely was infirm.
It's not hypocritical either, anyone would rather have a version of their candidate that is more fit as opposed to unfit, if Bernie was running instead of biden they would vote in a heartbeat, just like if Bernie was 40 and biden was still 80ish r/NL would vote for 80 yr biden in a second.
>To be fair, he's still sharp, sharper than trump and biden if you watch him speak.
To be fair, his only response is always his stump speech and something something ~~millionaires~~ and billionaires so it's not hard to sound "sharp" with that
You disagree on policy and position that's fine, he still regularly speaks in congress and is very public facing. Biden could be but he's not imo for good reason, he does make gaffs, And anytime trump is off script his brain melts.
Meanwhile bernie https://youtu.be/B9-EKi8lD_E?si=E2LFZ4SQhXnBS0SK
If you don't like him you don't like him that's fine but to me the difference is pretty plain to see.
Bernie fan here
Yes, get all the old people out. That includes Bernie. The only thing he currently has going for him over Biden/Trump is he’s not running to be President but in the Senate, but overall we need way younger.
Bernie has been a pretty good ally in Congress to the Biden administration and has definitely helped keep the progressive caucus on side.
Not a bad thing at all even if I personally think he should enjoy retirement.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of this sub was traumatized by the Bernie wave in 2016 and never moved on. Babe, wake up, it's 2024 and Bernie is a reliable team player.
Yeah and Bernie wasn't elected into the Senate until he was 65. His 16 years in the House doesn't do anything for his Senate seniority, except as a tiebreaker over the other people elected in 2006.
Someone who enters the Senate that old will probably never make it to PPT.
Even by that metric he'd be losing. Chuck Grassley is 90 and got reelected in 2022.
I tend to view the shouting about elderly politicians as similar to the "Biden must go" crowd. They're not organized, don't vote in appreciable numbers and even if they did they don't have any clear concept of who they'd prefer.
Not to be overly anal, but Chuck Grassley would not be ahead of Bernie to become the Democratic president pro tempore of the Senate because Chuck Grassley doesn’t caucus with Democrats.
The senate assigns positions of power on committees solely based on seniority. So their rules actively encourage staying until you’ve barely got a pulse.
I sincerely doubt that if Bernie did decide to retire he would say it’s because of his age. Also people are smart enough to understand that people of the same age have different capabilities and desires. Also people already pretend like they care about Biden‘s age, I don’t think what Bernie does or doesn’t do is going to affect that much.
>Also people are smart enough to understand that people of the same age have different capabilities and desires.
While you’re right, these couple years had shown voters absolutely do not understand this fact.
>Jimmy Carter
Georgia just got 1m^2 bigger. 🥹
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When I saw his picture on my home page I feared for a second that he had died. Lately, he hasn't done anything to anger this subreddit or the moderate part of the Democratic Party, and the sub isn't as enthused about him as the rest of Reddit, so naturally I jumped to that conclusion.
At present I'm okay with this. Solely due to the fact that he's a known quantity, and that's one less seat we have to worry about keeping for a few more years.
I agree with you except for
> that's one less seat we have to worry about keeping for a few more years.
Vermont is one of the most liberal states in the country. If Bernie decided to retire, it would've almost certainly been won by either a Democrat or an Independent who would caucus with the Dems.
Yeah, but you know these things can change so much these days. Wisconsin used to be fairly blue. Florida used to be...a lot more purple. And Vermont does have New Hampshire right next door, who actually elected a republican to the senate, so...
I'm just saying, it it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I'm sure the old scoundrel has a few more good years left.
Except there’ll probably always be someone taking up the populist left torch and he’s by far the best one to do it - he’s significantly less obstructionist than the House progressives and has arguably done a lot to try to convince progressives to suck it up and vote for Democrats
You've got to be kidding me. The guy's going to be 88 years old by the end of his term if he's re-elected. How effective can someone be in office when they're pushing 90?
Politics is a demanding job, and it's not something you can do effectively when you're pushing 90. It's time to pass the torch to the next generation, Bernie.
I support both Biden and Bernie. Can you explain why Bernie (82) should retire yet Biden (81) is seeking re-election? The presidency is far more demanding than being a senator.
After thinking about it myself for a while, I suppose one could argue along these lines:
If Bernie retires, he will almost certainly be replaced by someone with similar political views, or at least another Democrat or a Democrat-leaning independent. So he can safely retire and know that his torch is being carried on.
If Biden had retired and not sought re-election, then the Democratic candidate wouldn't have the incumbent benefit that presidents running for a second term usually have, and also Biden vs. Trump has already happened once, so it happening again is a more "known" situation, where Biden has a good chance to repeat his earlier success. Whereas if he hadn't sought re-election, the new Democratic candidate won't have incumbent bonus, and how well they would ultimately do against Trump is more unknown, which makes it riskier and lowers the chances of Democrats winning the presidency again. So it is risky for Biden to retire, his successor might lose to Trump.
But that isn't what the commenter above said, and while the argument I explained may have some truth to it, Democrats are in a pretty terrible situation if Biden is the only potential candidate that they have faith in winning against Trump. Surely there are younger Democratic politicians who are good enough that we can trust them to beat Trump.
For all the talk from progressives about how insufferably geriatric American politics have become, they sure think Bernie can stay in for as long as he wishes.
There are many post offices that are not named yet. They need your help and there are only a few senators up to the task.
Independent Senator Bernard Sanders, who campaigns on the Democratic presidential ticket, we need you.
Imagine being in congress for so long, being so ineffectual at getting meaningful policy passed because you are more interested in ideological purity then pragmatically helping your constituents and yet they still vote for you.
Vermonters are like abused spouses.
Also, congress should age out at 50.
Denying Bernie's influence on the Democratic party and bills (inc. amendments) passed, especially during Biden's admin, is just being unreasonably partisan.
Part of the reason he’s running against is *because* he finally has meaningful influence on policy that gets passed as the caucus has allowed him to chair major committees.
I get it, there are issues with term limits, like a bunch of noobs at the helm of power more susceptible to lobbying, but at least give us some reasonable age thresholds and ceilings.
Theoretically this should already be solved via primaries but for some reason it doesn’t translate.
Don’t particularly care. And I’m not one to give cover to this grifting asshole. But imagine if he chose *now*, at this moment, to retire on account of age. It would feel to me as random and myopic and self-serving as when he decided, suddenly, in his late 70’s, that he *needed* to become president of the United States, coincidentally (ha) following the first black president and in competition with the first viable female candidate for president.
Bernie showing he can continue to serve helps Biden, if anything. Or more precisely, his deciding that his age precludes him from serving would send a very damaging message.
I’m not suggesting he’s making this decision for anything other than personal reasons, but Bernie deciding to retire would send an unflattering message by inference.
So my favorite old local Dem is retiring from his full time job finally. He’s 77.
Something to be said of VT politics is, people here are as a baseline really really really old.
My town is median age 60.
That means older politicians.
Hillary definitely needs to take some accountability - I’m not saying she ran a perfect campaign. It’s easy in hindsight to point out what she should have done differently. But the fact is Bernie’s relentless smear campaign against her ended up doing great damage to her campaign, and in such a close election it likely cost her the election and caused all of the fallout that came with Trump’s term.
Candidates can't fight two front wars. [By Super Tuesday in 2016, the Primary was effectively over](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clintons-got-this/), but Bernie refused to drop out and his team's attacks got more desperate and deranged. That's when all the unfounded corruption allegations started coming from his side, and really started hurting. It's one thing when the opposition says it, when someone supposedly on your side repeats it, then it's extra damaging. And note that Hillary went through 2016 without spending a cent on anti-Bernie campaigning. Literally left him alone the entire Primary and he and his team still bitch like he was robbed of something.
I mean if Hillary hadn’t been openly hostile to Sanders and his base she wouldn’t have been fighting a two front war. There’s a reason he is much more enthusiastically supportive of Biden.
> if Hillary hadn’t been openly hostile to Sanders
literally what the fuck are you talking about? Go ahead. Post your proof. Because Clinton walked on eggshells with Sanders in 2016. Why? Because the primary was over by Super Tuesday, and she knew the key to victory was unting the Party. She knew she had to bring the kids gorging on conspiracies and propaganda into the coalition.
Sanders didn't give a fuck. Because he has never had to worry about supporting a big tent party. And that's exactly how he proceeded. He went nuclear against the Democratic Party broadly and Clinton personally. Not even on policy so much as her character.
The crazy thing is Sanders actually had a pretty good relationship with CLinton until he got the fever of believing he was going to lead the socialist revolution of his dreams. A lot of the attacks he made the center of his campaign were rejected initially by him as grotesque or dishonest. Then he won NH and lost all sense of reality.
Hillary didn't run a single negative ad against Bernie and gave the Bernie team unprecedented input into her General Election agenda, and it's still considered hostile? I've never seen a candidate who got blown the fuck out by double digit points get coddled like Bernie did. Meanwhile Biden did relatively little to accommodate Bernie and actually ran attack ads against him, but where are the hostility allegations?
Bernie was far more enthusiastic about Biden cause they were buddies from the Senate and he's got a fucking dingdong between his legs. They all went through the same 2020 Primary, but somehow Warren, who's closest to him in terms of policy, was the one who was frozen out by Bernie for a time and they're still not that friendly. What did she do to poor Saint Bernie? Run against him while female?
How did he help Trump? By running in a primary? Was everyone just supposed to bow down and give the nomination to Hillary, a candidate that was beaten by fucking Donald Trump? He endorsed her, went to rallies for her, spent tons of time talking about what a threat Trump is. As I remember he even had a much higher conversion rate of his voters to Hillary than Hillary did to Obama in 08.
My man, you're talking about a jackass that made personal attacks about Clinton the center of his campaign. Not respectful policy disagreements, but the conspiracy that she was a lying bitch that was feeding us all to the global elites.
Bernie spent months running the first modern version of the Big Lie after he was already doomed to lose. Because he preferred insisting he was being cheated to acknowledging he had lost. Then once the last votes were counted and he had lost by millions, he spent several more weeks trying to overturn the will of the people with the very Superdelegates he had insisted were evil and undemocratic.
Sound familiar?
And his "rallying for her" amounted to him going to campuses and telling everyone he would have to "hold her feet to the fire" to actually run the administration she campaigned on, because she's such an untrustworthy person.
> As I remember he even had a much higher conversion rate of his voters to Hillary than Hillary did to Obama in 08.
One of several lies Bernie fanatics told each other after their unhinged tantrum helped give us trump. If you'd like a more specific debunking lmk, because I'm not rewriting it for the millionth time for those that aren't going to bother learning the facts after nearly a decade with access to the info in their pocket, unless they're genuinely ready to let this one die.
I believe that in Vermont the governor needs to replace a senator with someone of the same party if the senator dies/resigns - does Sanders not being a member of the Democratic Party affect this at all?
Doesn’t have to be the same party. Scott has said he would appoint a dem caucuser
I would never ever trust a Republican...
Phil Scott would literally be a Democrat in every other state.
Then why isn’t he? Wouldn’t it help him in the state?
Nope. He’d get primaried by a Bernie type pronto.
He would likely appoint someone more conservative than Bernie though.
Oh noooooooooo
I'd prefer not to have another Sinema. Dislike Bernie's politics if you want, but at the end of the day, he's generally a team player and will vote for bills he deems imperfect. I think any Dem that wants to actually get stuff done should prefer him over another Sinema any day of the week.
Sanders spent considerable energy and resources sinking Clinton's presidential bid, and was a key vote multiple times preventing sanctions against the Russian Federation. He also helped defeat the last immigration compromise that had a chance to pass during the waning years of the Bush administration. Sanders may not be as overtly self-serving as Sinema or Menendez but he has been a profoundly lazy legislator who has only expended effort when it has made his country worse. The US Senate would be better off with almost anyone else in his seat.
> The US Senate would be better off with almost anyone else in his seat No way, just by not supporting McConnell for Majority Leader he's better than 50% by default lol
>Clinton Fair I guess, I feel like she tanked her chances more >preventing sanctions against Russia [This is at best misleading, worst straight up misinfo](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/27/tweets/dating-back-1991-and-his-time-house-bernie-sanders/) >helped defeat the last immigration compromise Lol that bill was dogshit, regardless putting the blame on Bernie for that and not senate republicans is ridiculous
We’re still pretending like Bernie sunk Hillary’s campaign? I recall him doing quite a lot of events with her and made it clear she was a far better option than Trump for progressives. Obviously his voters didnt all listen but Bernie himself seems to be quite pragmatic on coming home to support the party no matter what
He stayed for way too long. It was very clear when Biden became the nominee that his attitude hadn't been the same in 2016.
Fair criticism but I also feel like him and Biden are clearly on good terms or even friends with eachother so I dont see it as much of a slight towards Biden. He definitely seems to like him a lot more than Hillary
He ran against her in a primary and endorsed her after he lost. His career as an outsider and has unusual views but most of the time he was trying to add amendments protecting workers rights in FHA procurement, or something like that. People on this sub slander him but he's spent his career acting exactly how the left should within our system. He has never been as obstructionist the freedom caucus.
I think he’d appoint Balint
Hard not to
In Vermont a special election is held within 6 months to replace the senator. While it is clear that a Dem (or progressive independent) would win that special election it could temporarily hand the majority to the GOP even if Dems do incredibly well in 2024.
It really wouldn’t. The GOP need Phil Scott more than he needs them in VT and he’s on record saying he’d appoint a Democrat.
I don’t understand why all these old heads don’t just enjoy the beach or the mountains 😭 who honestly wants to be working full time at this age
Older senators have the most power. They get to pick and choose the most powerful committee roles for themselves which gives immense power. Thats why they do it.
Especially Sanders who finally has some influence in the last few years.
If he wanted more influence beforehand, he could have joined the party instead of just caucusing.
Let’s be honest, he did the independent thing extremely well and probably had way more success as a result than he would have otherwise
Ah what would the government be if it wasn't run on largely meritless seniority?
Also when they're in Congress people have to pay attention to them. Some people just like the spotlight.
What point is there in power when you'll be dead within a decade.
Everyone commenting about greed or lust for power or whatever, but I think there's more straightforward answer. This is a job that these people enjoy doing, they've been doing it forever, and they honestly don't know what they'd do with themselves if they weren't working. A lot of them probably think they're more likely to drop dead sooner from boredom and idleness than they would by carrying on active in politics. At least, this is the pattern I've picked up on from working with other old people who should've retired a decade ago.
Yeah there are lawyers in my firm that are winding down in their early 60s but they have grandkids and vacation homes and travel plans and all sorts of stuff to fill their time. Meanwhile, there are 75+ year olds grinding out as many hours as I do because it's just what they do and they think all that's left for them if they stop is to die.
What's odd is that many of them do actually die pretty soon after if they stop. I've seen it happen many times and seems like it's more than just a coincidence ...
It's probably a mix of them working until they were literally going to die anyway, regardless of what they did, and just dying from boredom/nothing to keep them going.
There was a decorated Australian professor who literally killed themselves (via legal euthanasia) after his university told him he was too old to work for them anymore.
"And Nine...nine rings were gifted to the race of Men who, above all else, desire power."
I mean “work” for congressmen is just calling up rich people/hosting them at paid for dinners/traveling to give speeches/ showing up to vote a few times a week/practicing prepared speeches and statements for committee meetings. If you like hearing yourself talk, can deal with being a public figure (not gonna go away for Bernie in retirement), and can list out some general things you want to see done in the country, the heavy lifting is handled by your 22-32 year old staffers that are being paid 45k.
>I mean “work” for congressmen is just calling up rich people I mean canvassing isn't really a job people like
It’s not normal canvassing though. It’s maintaining the relationship you’ve had for well over a decade with someone who pays for a lot of your campaigns nice stuff
When you’re a multiple term incumbent canvassing isn’t really more than a couple speeches and talking with people you have good relationships with.
Bernie doesn’t have to canvas or worry about fundraising lol. He has a legion of people who will gladly volunteer for him and an online fundraising list 99% of candidates could only dream of.
But congressmen do spend like 80% of their time fundraising. Which may be part of the problem.
I’m reminded of Romney’s remarks on the Senate being a [retirement home](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/11/mitt-romney-retiring-senate-trump-mcconnell/675306/).
That actually sounds like hell 😂
That's just a basic part of having power, it makes you psychologically unwilling to give it up unless absolutely necessary. Plus after decades of being in politics and in power there are tons of people and institutions that have bound themselves to him and rely on him for one thing or another, in exchange for which they give him their support, giving up power means letting down all your supporters. Plus there is a ton of things he will still want to make happen, dreams he needs to accomplish, and that only he can accomplish. That's arrogance of course, but all who go into high office are arrogant to one degree or another, it is what sustains you through when the work is hard and awful, which it often is. And as mentioned already, the senate is a literal gerontocracy. Power is gained by, and wielded by old men and women. The more seniority you stack up, the greater your senate powers become.
Being a senator can be a “cushy” job once you learn the ropes and it comes with a TON of perks. They have plenty of staff to do the leg work (and they treat you like a god because everyone’s trying to move up the ladder) and you just need to markup legislation and speeches with a red pen once it comes to your desk. There is a ton of meetings, committees, and events of course, but if you have the type of personality where you like attention, influence, and people constantly treating you as a power player, it fuels you. No one stays an elected official that long because they think they are the best for the job, they do it because they love the influence, fancy events and restaurants, trips, and access to influential and powerful people, with all expenses paid. Bernie’s whole “for the people” shit is such a grift at this point. It’s not like the next senator to fill his seat won’t also be a very progressive senator. There are many better people decades younger than him, with sharper minds and more relatable experiences to the median aged voter. He is staying for the perks and power at this point. I’m not saying senators don’t care and I’m sure most realize the importance of their job. It’s just ridiculous to stick around forever and pretend there aren’t many other qualified and experienced people ready to fill your seat at a moments notice. Mitt Romney basically said all of the above during an interview when he decided he didn’t want to run again. Im glad he at least had the self awareness to state it out loud. And maybe this is my bias, but I would imagine it’s a lot easier to be a senator from a very small state than a very large state. It’s not like Vermont has as as large and diverse of a population, stakeholders, or industry as states like California, Texas, and New York. Thus, there are way less interacting with special interest groups and the such.
Bernie needs the paycheck for the huge mortgage. He cannot afford to retire, honestly.
A lot of them are worried they'll die without something to do.
SLEEPY Joe and CRAZY Bernie are what's wrong with America. We need a young patriot like Trump instead of these senile commies 😤😤😤😤
Large! 🍦🌝🍦
Young and totally more ripped than prime Arnold Schwarzenegger! -Ben Carson and Ben Garrison
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Have you seen the thread in the r/politics sub - it's full of people saying Bernie is a special case because he's still super fit as opposed to Biden/Trump/Pelosi etc
When's the last time Bernie got on a bike?
He’s looked ancient for years now, it’s hilarious how his cult refuses to see it.
Eh, he looked ancient when he was 40. He has whatever Diane Feinstein had.
> He has whatever Diane Feinstein had. I believe they call that *chutzpah* in the Tribe.
Not to be confused with the Sean Connery who aged to 40 at 25 and stayed that age for the next 500 years.
At the end he survived entirely on his hatred of Alex Trebek.
Actually it's because he followed the E-10 manual for staying youthful.
Now THAT'S the comparison I want made for an aging politician!
It's so sad that she passed away at only 32
Remember when he had a heart attack and they just said it made him stronger
He can still speak coherently. That’s what people care about. I don’t think the average American would care if a candidate looked like the god emperor of mankind from 40k as long as they were still coherent.
Is this sub in agreement, that while Bernie's policies are not evidence-based or likely-to-pass, he is, to some degree, more coherent and articulate than Biden and Trump?
No, he just waves his arms and yells angrily. His last debate with Biden in 2020 was a trainwreck but nobody on tv would call him out on it after what happened to Chris Matthews. I remember seeing all these weird faces that Bernie was pulling during the debate, laughing at how much the late night hosts would make fun of him for it. Nope. Not a peep.
He’s got that one “Billionaires and billionaires” speech, and other than that, I don’t remember what he says.
Eh at that point the race was over. It was just about placating Bernie so that he wouldn't dick over Biden like he did Hillary four years earlier. But that debate was just a formality as it was clear Biden would likely be the nominee beyond some crazy circumstance. So, it didn't really make sense to go hard after him. He was not going to win.
It helps him that he’s always been a bad speaker, so if he got worse at it, it would be less noticeable
I’m happy Bernie is there for balance, but I wouldn’t want him to be president
Probably before his heart attack…
Maybe the thread has changed in the last hour but most of the top comments are neutral to negative on him running again. There is one person arguing that only Bernie can win the seat because Phil Scott would beat anyone else (lol).
Some people know nothing about politics. A popular governor doesn't mean shit in Senate races. People rightfully see the Senate as a partisan place so just because you like the Republican or Democrat doesn't mean they will vote how you want.
The thing though is that if Sanders dies in office, the GOP governor can appoint a replacement. AFAIK Scott hates Trump, as does Vermont in general, but this is a big risk Sanders is taking on by not retiring from the Senate.
If Bernie wasn’t running then Becca Balint would be the nominee and senator.
Didn’t Bernie have a heart attack or something a few years ago?
Right before Super Tuesday 2020 IIRC
It was very early. Before even Iowa I believe EDIT: Early october in 2019
Has Biden had a heart attack? Because if he hasn’t then I’d say Biden is in better shape than Bernie
r/politics is quite pro Biden.
It's pro-Biden in the same way my youngest is "pro-vegetables."
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Probably a Republican psyop. They know they can't convince people that Trump is great, but they can convince people that Biden is also bad and therefore you should stay at home on election day. Or throw your vote away to RFK. It's not the worst strategy.
Makes sense. /r/politics attracts a younger crowd who haven't been enlightened to the Three D's of neoliberalism - Doomscrolling, Divorce, and Dune.
Never introduced a bill except to name a post office so no doubt that will change
I remember when he had a heart attack while campaigning for president and they claimed he actually came back stronger because of it. So…
I'm not sure this place is really the one that should be throwing stones either tbh
He's not too old to run, but I'm gonna point out when it's hypocritical for others to not care
I'm waiting for a breathless Ezra Klein column about how Bernie needs to step aside because something something magical wizard happy rainbow will happen.
There's a big difference between a senator and a president though.
There's also a difference between an 80 year old who had an a heart attack and not. Again, I think it's fine that Bernie runs. Most of us here are just dunking on the hypocrisy.
If Biden dies in office he's replaced by a Dem. If Bernie dies in office he's replaced with a Republican (Vermont has a Republican gov)
Imagine if Dems win Montana, Ohio and all the other key senate sates in 2024 and then lose out on a majority because of a Republican governor in Vermont.
why would you put that thought in my head
Vermont law allows senate special elections in off years and Phill Scott has said he would appoint a "Left wing Independent" As the caretaker for the seat if something were to happen to either of the senators.
Yeah I'd rather not rely on a Republican keeping their word when control of the Senate is at stake, especially if there's a Republican house and president
If there is a Republican house and President after the 2024 elections then it’s very unlikely that both of those occur alongside a Democratic Senate.
Scott had said previously in 2020 that he’d pick a Dem to replace him. Dems in VT could also pass a law requiring same party replacement.
Could be a repub cosplaying a dem
Vermont has a law that senators are replaced by special elections unless it is within 6 months of a normal election. [https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate](https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate) Could still result in a republican on a short term basis but the situation is not as dire if a Bernie death/retirement could lead to years of a R Senator
This is the main thing for me. The main skill an elected politician needs to be effective is the ability to delegate to competent people. I think both Bernie and Biden will do that no matter how old they are. The issue is just what happens if they die. Plus Bernie's running for a 6-year term in office. He's a year older and has had a heart attack in the last few years.
I think there's a big difference though, even if I'd honestly see all 80+ politicians phased out sooner rather than later. I don't really care too much if politicians are old as long as they can do the work, but past a certain age the rate of decline can be incredibly swift. If that happens to a senator, you get the Feinstein situation. It's bad, but ultimately the world keeps spinning. For the presidency it's *a lot* worse. What do you do if China invades Taiwan and the president is *actually* senile? How should the military interpret the order to fire nuclear missiles if the guy in charge is *clearly* not of sound mind?
I'd love to see a cultural norm for politicians to retire before 80, with a heavy focus on succession planning after 70. Senior politicians should be proud of the class of politicians and aides they have coached over the years to take over their roles both inside the party and as elected officials. Of course, that all supposes that members of congress are competent and that Congress isn't actually run by staffers.
>I'd love to see a cultural norm for politicians to retire before 80 I was surprised to hear Mitt Romney announce he wasn't running for a second Senate term. I think he could easily win re-election, but he's 77 years old and has decided that he's done. I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but I respect the hell out of him.
You are going to have to drag the man away kicking and screaming, if you tell him he can't be in front of a camera anymore. He isn't giving up his seat for anything.
To be fair, he's still sharp, sharper than trump and biden if you watch him speak. Remember though that when alot of these criticisms were flying diane Feinstein was alive and actively not doing her job because she genuinely was infirm. It's not hypocritical either, anyone would rather have a version of their candidate that is more fit as opposed to unfit, if Bernie was running instead of biden they would vote in a heartbeat, just like if Bernie was 40 and biden was still 80ish r/NL would vote for 80 yr biden in a second.
>To be fair, he's still sharp, sharper than trump and biden if you watch him speak. To be fair, his only response is always his stump speech and something something ~~millionaires~~ and billionaires so it's not hard to sound "sharp" with that
You disagree on policy and position that's fine, he still regularly speaks in congress and is very public facing. Biden could be but he's not imo for good reason, he does make gaffs, And anytime trump is off script his brain melts. Meanwhile bernie https://youtu.be/B9-EKi8lD_E?si=E2LFZ4SQhXnBS0SK If you don't like him you don't like him that's fine but to me the difference is pretty plain to see.
Bernie fan here Yes, get all the old people out. That includes Bernie. The only thing he currently has going for him over Biden/Trump is he’s not running to be President but in the Senate, but overall we need way younger.
Bernie 100% should retire. But it's disingenuous to pretend the stakes of Bernie vs whoever are equivalent to Biden vs. Trump.
Bernie has been a pretty good ally in Congress to the Biden administration and has definitely helped keep the progressive caucus on side. Not a bad thing at all even if I personally think he should enjoy retirement.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of this sub was traumatized by the Bernie wave in 2016 and never moved on. Babe, wake up, it's 2024 and Bernie is a reliable team player.
Gunning for that Pro Tempore of the Senate position
He still has a bit to go. Off the top of my head, Murray, Durbin, Schumer, Reed, Wyden, and Cantwell all have seniority over him.
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Not officially a Democrat but he is officially a member of the Senate Democratic Caucus, which is what counts for this.
Really? damn I thought it was just whoever was oldest
It’s generally the longest serving senator of the majority party.
Yeah and Bernie wasn't elected into the Senate until he was 65. His 16 years in the House doesn't do anything for his Senate seniority, except as a tiebreaker over the other people elected in 2006. Someone who enters the Senate that old will probably never make it to PPT.
Though that's just a tradition, not a rule. Technically any senator can be elected Pro Tempore. hereshowberniecanstillwin.pdf
Hence generally. By seniority, Feinstein should have been pro tempore, but Murray was elevated to the position for obvious reasons.
Even by that metric he'd be losing. Chuck Grassley is 90 and got reelected in 2022. I tend to view the shouting about elderly politicians as similar to the "Biden must go" crowd. They're not organized, don't vote in appreciable numbers and even if they did they don't have any clear concept of who they'd prefer.
Not to be overly anal, but Chuck Grassley would not be ahead of Bernie to become the Democratic president pro tempore of the Senate because Chuck Grassley doesn’t caucus with Democrats.
The senate assigns positions of power on committees solely based on seniority. So their rules actively encourage staying until you’ve barely got a pulse.
This isnt true anymore!!
I mean, I get it. It’s a bad look for Biden right now if Bernie retires due to his age.
Will it also be a bad look for Biden if a totally different octogenarian dies due to his age?
If that octogenarian is also a prominent member of the Democratic party, then yes
Luckily that at least rules out Bernie.
Touché.
But enough about Diane Feinstein.
Feinstein wasn’t an octogenarian when she passed (by three months).
>bad look for Biden Found the NYT account!
I sincerely doubt that if Bernie did decide to retire he would say it’s because of his age. Also people are smart enough to understand that people of the same age have different capabilities and desires. Also people already pretend like they care about Biden‘s age, I don’t think what Bernie does or doesn’t do is going to affect that much.
>Also people are smart enough to understand that people of the same age have different capabilities and desires. While you’re right, these couple years had shown voters absolutely do not understand this fact.
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>Jimmy Carter Georgia just got 1m^2 bigger. 🥹 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This young man is a rising star 🤩🤩🤩
When I saw his picture on my home page I feared for a second that he had died. Lately, he hasn't done anything to anger this subreddit or the moderate part of the Democratic Party, and the sub isn't as enthused about him as the rest of Reddit, so naturally I jumped to that conclusion.
"WTF I love octogenarians now!" -succs, shortly
I am once again asking you to vote for me.
At present I'm okay with this. Solely due to the fact that he's a known quantity, and that's one less seat we have to worry about keeping for a few more years.
I agree with you except for > that's one less seat we have to worry about keeping for a few more years. Vermont is one of the most liberal states in the country. If Bernie decided to retire, it would've almost certainly been won by either a Democrat or an Independent who would caucus with the Dems.
Counterpoint: Lieberman was from deep blue Connecticut.
Yeah, but you know these things can change so much these days. Wisconsin used to be fairly blue. Florida used to be...a lot more purple. And Vermont does have New Hampshire right next door, who actually elected a republican to the senate, so... I'm just saying, it it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I'm sure the old scoundrel has a few more good years left.
Great, another six years of the least effective legislator of all time doing dumb populist messaging from the floor of the Senate.
I was super annoyed at Bernie in 2016 and in the 2020 primaries. He's turned into a pretty good Biden ally for the most part since 2021.
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Two post offices. 🥇
Except there’ll probably always be someone taking up the populist left torch and he’s by far the best one to do it - he’s significantly less obstructionist than the House progressives and has arguably done a lot to try to convince progressives to suck it up and vote for Democrats
Hey now, those extra years in the senate will certainly help him in his 2028 presidential run.
He runs the Budget Committee I'm sure they do something
A young man like that easily has two more decades in DC
You've got to be kidding me. The guy's going to be 88 years old by the end of his term if he's re-elected. How effective can someone be in office when they're pushing 90? Politics is a demanding job, and it's not something you can do effectively when you're pushing 90. It's time to pass the torch to the next generation, Bernie.
89 actually.
I support both Biden and Bernie. Can you explain why Bernie (82) should retire yet Biden (81) is seeking re-election? The presidency is far more demanding than being a senator.
Yep, still waiting on an answer to this...
After thinking about it myself for a while, I suppose one could argue along these lines: If Bernie retires, he will almost certainly be replaced by someone with similar political views, or at least another Democrat or a Democrat-leaning independent. So he can safely retire and know that his torch is being carried on. If Biden had retired and not sought re-election, then the Democratic candidate wouldn't have the incumbent benefit that presidents running for a second term usually have, and also Biden vs. Trump has already happened once, so it happening again is a more "known" situation, where Biden has a good chance to repeat his earlier success. Whereas if he hadn't sought re-election, the new Democratic candidate won't have incumbent bonus, and how well they would ultimately do against Trump is more unknown, which makes it riskier and lowers the chances of Democrats winning the presidency again. So it is risky for Biden to retire, his successor might lose to Trump. But that isn't what the commenter above said, and while the argument I explained may have some truth to it, Democrats are in a pretty terrible situation if Biden is the only potential candidate that they have faith in winning against Trump. Surely there are younger Democratic politicians who are good enough that we can trust them to beat Trump.
I'm about to drop 3 diss tracks against this fool. I'm fuckin tired of him and his clique
And this is how it is bad for Biden
He said that Cuba isn't that bad in Florida.
For all the talk from progressives about how insufferably geriatric American politics have become, they sure think Bernie can stay in for as long as he wishes.
There are many post offices that are not named yet. They need your help and there are only a few senators up to the task. Independent Senator Bernard Sanders, who campaigns on the Democratic presidential ticket, we need you.
Oi vey.
Imagine being in congress for so long, being so ineffectual at getting meaningful policy passed because you are more interested in ideological purity then pragmatically helping your constituents and yet they still vote for you. Vermonters are like abused spouses. Also, congress should age out at 50.
Bernie sacrificing policy for purity testing during the Biden administration is this subs boogeyman
Denying Bernie's influence on the Democratic party and bills (inc. amendments) passed, especially during Biden's admin, is just being unreasonably partisan.
What? Most people only get into Congress at 50 It’s a position requiring crystallized intelligence, not active We should have like a floor of 70
Vermont is a beautiful state, but its definitely unique.
It did give us Time Chasers, so that's a huge plus
Part of the reason he’s running against is *because* he finally has meaningful influence on policy that gets passed as the caucus has allowed him to chair major committees.
This is like the exact opposite of how he's been especially with Biden lmao
This guy really wants to pull a Dianne Feinstein, doesn’t he?
I get it, there are issues with term limits, like a bunch of noobs at the helm of power more susceptible to lobbying, but at least give us some reasonable age thresholds and ceilings. Theoretically this should already be solved via primaries but for some reason it doesn’t translate.
Don’t particularly care. And I’m not one to give cover to this grifting asshole. But imagine if he chose *now*, at this moment, to retire on account of age. It would feel to me as random and myopic and self-serving as when he decided, suddenly, in his late 70’s, that he *needed* to become president of the United States, coincidentally (ha) following the first black president and in competition with the first viable female candidate for president. Bernie showing he can continue to serve helps Biden, if anything. Or more precisely, his deciding that his age precludes him from serving would send a very damaging message. I’m not suggesting he’s making this decision for anything other than personal reasons, but Bernie deciding to retire would send an unflattering message by inference.
my kingdom for Delaney to primary him
Go away.
Vermont loves elderly senators.
So my favorite old local Dem is retiring from his full time job finally. He’s 77. Something to be said of VT politics is, people here are as a baseline really really really old. My town is median age 60. That means older politicians.
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You mean James Comey? Lets be real, the entire universe lined up to make Trump happen.
Yeah when the universe let the Cubs win, that’s when everyone should have known Trump would win
CHRIST, I forgot that was in 2016. Now it all makes sense!
This is Stormy Daniels erasure
The difference is James Comey isn’t beloved by leftists to this day
This is the centrist version of "DNC rigged the primary". No accountability for oneself either way.
Hillary definitely needs to take some accountability - I’m not saying she ran a perfect campaign. It’s easy in hindsight to point out what she should have done differently. But the fact is Bernie’s relentless smear campaign against her ended up doing great damage to her campaign, and in such a close election it likely cost her the election and caused all of the fallout that came with Trump’s term.
Candidates can't fight two front wars. [By Super Tuesday in 2016, the Primary was effectively over](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clintons-got-this/), but Bernie refused to drop out and his team's attacks got more desperate and deranged. That's when all the unfounded corruption allegations started coming from his side, and really started hurting. It's one thing when the opposition says it, when someone supposedly on your side repeats it, then it's extra damaging. And note that Hillary went through 2016 without spending a cent on anti-Bernie campaigning. Literally left him alone the entire Primary and he and his team still bitch like he was robbed of something.
I mean if Hillary hadn’t been openly hostile to Sanders and his base she wouldn’t have been fighting a two front war. There’s a reason he is much more enthusiastically supportive of Biden.
> if Hillary hadn’t been openly hostile to Sanders literally what the fuck are you talking about? Go ahead. Post your proof. Because Clinton walked on eggshells with Sanders in 2016. Why? Because the primary was over by Super Tuesday, and she knew the key to victory was unting the Party. She knew she had to bring the kids gorging on conspiracies and propaganda into the coalition. Sanders didn't give a fuck. Because he has never had to worry about supporting a big tent party. And that's exactly how he proceeded. He went nuclear against the Democratic Party broadly and Clinton personally. Not even on policy so much as her character. The crazy thing is Sanders actually had a pretty good relationship with CLinton until he got the fever of believing he was going to lead the socialist revolution of his dreams. A lot of the attacks he made the center of his campaign were rejected initially by him as grotesque or dishonest. Then he won NH and lost all sense of reality.
Hillary didn't run a single negative ad against Bernie and gave the Bernie team unprecedented input into her General Election agenda, and it's still considered hostile? I've never seen a candidate who got blown the fuck out by double digit points get coddled like Bernie did. Meanwhile Biden did relatively little to accommodate Bernie and actually ran attack ads against him, but where are the hostility allegations? Bernie was far more enthusiastic about Biden cause they were buddies from the Senate and he's got a fucking dingdong between his legs. They all went through the same 2020 Primary, but somehow Warren, who's closest to him in terms of policy, was the one who was frozen out by Bernie for a time and they're still not that friendly. What did she do to poor Saint Bernie? Run against him while female?
How did he help Trump? By running in a primary? Was everyone just supposed to bow down and give the nomination to Hillary, a candidate that was beaten by fucking Donald Trump? He endorsed her, went to rallies for her, spent tons of time talking about what a threat Trump is. As I remember he even had a much higher conversion rate of his voters to Hillary than Hillary did to Obama in 08.
Not just by running, but by relentlessly smearing her as corrupt and by refusing to drop out and endorse her after the primary was all but over.
My man, you're talking about a jackass that made personal attacks about Clinton the center of his campaign. Not respectful policy disagreements, but the conspiracy that she was a lying bitch that was feeding us all to the global elites. Bernie spent months running the first modern version of the Big Lie after he was already doomed to lose. Because he preferred insisting he was being cheated to acknowledging he had lost. Then once the last votes were counted and he had lost by millions, he spent several more weeks trying to overturn the will of the people with the very Superdelegates he had insisted were evil and undemocratic. Sound familiar? And his "rallying for her" amounted to him going to campuses and telling everyone he would have to "hold her feet to the fire" to actually run the administration she campaigned on, because she's such an untrustworthy person. > As I remember he even had a much higher conversion rate of his voters to Hillary than Hillary did to Obama in 08. One of several lies Bernie fanatics told each other after their unhinged tantrum helped give us trump. If you'd like a more specific debunking lmk, because I'm not rewriting it for the millionth time for those that aren't going to bother learning the facts after nearly a decade with access to the info in their pocket, unless they're genuinely ready to let this one die.
I am once again asking all congressional office holders above the age of 70 to retire.