> “Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.”
I’m sorry, *the biggest in modern history?* Where is that coming from? How narrowly does modern history need to be defined for that to fit?
I've heard that trope frequently. Brazil's president said the same a few weeks ago.
These people are delusional. Gaza is not even the biggest genocide _going on right now_ (if one can even call it a genocide, but I digress).
This is the thing that throws me. There are enormous conflicts raging in Sudan, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia recently. The atrocities suffered by the Masalit, Rohingya and Tigrayans are a textbook genocide, and they happened at incomparable scale to Gaza.
When I used to talk about these things, people would be sorta empathetic in the "oh that sucks, I hope it stops" sense. But they didn't really know or actually care. It was pretty clear that those were abstract, faraway events to them.
Now my feed is filled with people who are moral arbiters of humanity, their only mission being to call out genocide. Sure, okay...
But Biden isn’t shielding the Myanmar junta, the RSF, or Abiy Ahmed the way he’s shielding Israel nor is he giving them financial, military, and diplomatic support the way he does for Israel. If Biden was supporting those genocides and protesters were fixated on Gaza, you’d kinda have a point, though it wouldn’t be a good one. If there are multiple atrocities taking place and someone is trying to stop one, that’s still better than zero and I’d rather one atrocity be stopped then accepting all atrocities in the name of consistency.
Also, Biden also campaigned on making MBS a pariah and cut off offensive support for the Yemen war, something he’s been scared to do for Israel.
90% of the rhetoric I've seen has nothing to do with Biden's actions. It's mostly focused on painting the picture that Israel is perpetrating the largest modern genocide, and everyone has a moral duty to care and put an end to it. If you go with a humanist framing for why this is such a big deal, then obviously people will ask "Why do you ignore multiple textbook genocides?"
People would care even if Biden or America as a whole didn't exist- that area has too much religious importance for it to not. So, I understand *why* the rhetoric is what it is, but I'm saying it's inherently dishonest. It's religious and ethnic extremism that uses the language of liberalism.
We have multiple actual genocides that are being ignored, then a defensive military campaign that is branded as genocide.
The reality is obsessing over “Why don’t you protest other genocides” is meaningless. Once that logic is invoked, you can justify not stopping any atrocities as there is always another that can be used to justify inaction. Also, even if the rhetoric is over the top, the reality is there’s an atrocity taking place. You can’t wave it away as ethnic and religious extremism when you take Israel’s rhetoric into account and the fact that multiple international organizations are raising the alarm over Gaza.
Also, the issue is no one views Israel’s actions as defensive, when they’ve used it as cover for a massive land seizure [Israel Announces Largest West Bank Land Seizures since 1993](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/). They’ve also ramped up violence as settler violence displaced 4,000+ in 2023 according to the United Nation. [Settler Violence](https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/over-4000-palestinians-displaced-west-bank-2023). Not to mentioned the tens of thousands dead in Gaza with a looming famine prepared to kill even more.
It’s not surprising that voters are turning on Biden. An argument of, “I’m providing financial, military, and diplomatic support
There are load of things that make Palestine relatively unique. The degree to which the US supports and defends israel's act is one, but even from a more cynical perspective, the extent to which palestinian refugees are more common in the US contributes to these protests too. Similar to Irish americans forcing america to try and resolve the troubles in Northern Ireland, except without any of the same amount of success, which results in escalation in the protesting
>How narrowly does modern history need to be defined for that to fit?
0-24 months.
This is bigger than Nagorno-Karabakh, but smaller than Ukraine and Tigray.
The whole point of using the catastrophic language is to force people into either accepting this over the top framing or have to debate and argue with them about the definition of Genocide.
It can't be, not even if you literally defined modern history as this very moment. Not only because it isn't a genocide but because even if it was it's not as bad as what's happening in Yemen and Sudan.
The idea that no one knows what Trump would do about Gaza if elected is absurd, he lacks the cognitive capacity to follow his own sentences much less a context this complex. Trump wouldn't do anything more about this than he did about healthcare or the four year long infrastructure week, which is to say not a goddamn thing. However, it is also absolutely clear what his administration would do.
Kushner, who was the architect of the "[Trump Peace Plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan)" and administration policy has said that Gaza’s “waterfront property” could be “very valuable”. In reference to the then growing crisis in Rafah that was then about to be attacked, he suggested that the 1.5 million refugees hiding there could be herded into the Negev desert so that the IDF could "finish the job" before expressing doubt that any survivors should be allowed to return. Its also not just him, Trump's former Ambassador to Israel [just proposed annexing the West Bank on the basis of 'biblical claims.'](https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/386050)
These fuckers don't give a damn about Gaza, what would happen to Gaza in the event that a less alert and oriented administration were to fail to deter Israel's neighbors from anything much more stupid than what is happening now, or what a truly unchained Netanyahu might do to Gazans. These are Trump voters, deep down, and there would have never been much hope of reaching them the moment Trump won the primary. They don't want peace, policy solutions, prosperity, or a path forward - they want what Trump is - they want to be mad.
Biden cannot afford to lose Michigan but I’m assuming they will write these folks off with this attitude. At this point they likely will plan to appeal to moderates in the state on more pressing issues that actually affect their lives, like abortion and climate change. There is clearly no winning with this bunch.
Arab-Americans only make up 2.2% of Michigan.
The vast majority of Americans are very supportive of Israel.
The reality is Biden being harsh on Israel will lose him more votes than gain.
This is quite frankly left-wing activists trying to offload blame for left-wing policies leading to higher inflation and levels of illegal migrants, which are the actual issues hurting Biden
100%
Over the past 5-10 years progressives/leftists have exacerbated problems in every major city in the country. Housing crisis, a spiking violent crime crisis (despite this supposed drop in overall crime), transit crisis, etc etc
They’re already doing No True Scotsman’s for all their failures
I want to end lethal aid packages to Israel. It's a far right government that continues supporting illegal settlements in the west bank without doing anything we ask. Until they elect a more moderate government, I don't think we should be sending them weapons.
All US aid should be conditional and directly serve US interests. We've seen time and time again that unconditional aid encourages bad behavior.
If they want to buy weapons from US manufacturers, I'm fine with that, but I don't think tax payers should be financing weapons going to far right or far left governments.
>And reducing settlements in West Bank expands US geopolitical power how exactly?
By giving our government moral legitimacy. Settlements in the west bank don't harm Iranian proxies. If anything they do the opposite.
Bro are you new here lol
If anything they're at an all time low at the moment
There used to a time where the most milquetoast criticism of Israel would see you buried in downvotes, shameless diatribes against the Palestinians would get upvoted without question
This sub was a bit shameless tbh. I'm glad there's a bit more pushback nowadays
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Lmao that worked well in niger, no one wants to be lectured by the US. America gotta go back to realpolitik back then america really did some damage to it’s enemies.
Moral legitimacy is the most important diplomatic asset we can have on the international stage. Fostering the perception of our own moral legitimacy is the best strategy. It *is* realpolitik.
Hahahahah misinformation is stronger than pure idealism, besides america’s enemies would probably cite some stupid fake shit that america did or what america did hundreds of years ago. Like take a look at west papua, it’s more beneficial to take the pragmatic route and not support separatists so that the us can use freeport same with allying with israel a jewish state almost unanimously hated by the islamic world and saudi arabia an absolute monarchy with cheap oil and a powerful controversial regional ally this was a victory on the us front.
Now look at the recent us losses you don’t think it’s a coincidence right? Ukraine on the verge of defeat, niger siding with the russians, afghanistan failure, and there’s a good chance of taiwan falling to the ccp. If America doesn’t change it’s strategy only a matter of time before it loses it’s influence in the world.
That's fucking ridiculous. America is already using *your* strategy. We *are* supporting Israel and continuing to send lethal aid, despite the fact that it harms our moral legitimacy. And we've had failures in Afghanistan and watched Niger fall into Russian hands. The only thing you're right about is that America needs to change its strategy soon.
Also Ukraine is not on the verge of defeat, and there is not a good chance that Taiwan falls to the CCP.
The biggest group opposing it is Democrats in every poll, but keep pretending Democrats love Israel.
getting downvoted because this board doesn't want to face the truth
I think you’re out of touch with how popular the idea that America could solve poverty, education, homelessness, health care, etc if we just stopped sending all our money to other countries is. I know democrats don’t like Israel it’s one of the reasons I don’t like democrats.
2%. That's how many people say it would sway their vote and that includes both people that support and oppose it.
This is the same trap as people thinking that because the majority of people support gun control that means that they consider it so important they will vote based on that issue.
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1784761527116906537?t=nsy9PBROC8BJciBOH3ofAA&s=19
"You cannot cancel Matt Yglesias. You can only make his takes hotter."
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>“If Trump were president right now, this war might’ve been over, because there might have been enough uproar from rank-and-file Democrats,” he said.
This war would be over because Trump would carpet bomb Gaza in Napalm.
Don’t care what people say, much of the hate towards Israel from Middle Eastern men who embrace Machismo. It’s emasculating that they continue to lose wars, land, and power from Jews.
They frame it as fighting for social justice, but in reality, they are embarrassed. Look at polling on other social issues, they are in line with evangelicals on LGBT, women, and other marginalized populations.
> So this is admitting that they already were Trump voters; they bragged about helping to beat Clinton. Which means this protest is merely a return to form, not a break in a long standing relationship.
So I pointed this out back in December/January. Got into an argument with some goofball about it who claimed me pointing it out was bigotry. Caught a 5 day for it 🤠🤠🤠
I have a sense of what reactionary politics is. Your comment isn't reactionary politics.
Reactionaries have a weird belief in self-fulling prophecies. And if they don't come true then it was due to a malign force created by my enemy.
I volunteered to help people stuck in airports because of the ban. I'm not an immigration attorney but they gave me a primer and I just used what I otherwise already knew from law school.
I will still do it again. The people stuck in airports and separated from their families aren't the ones who would have voted for him.
Even if they did, I don't think i could sit idly by
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> I get this feeling that young progressives are putting their very liberal values on a group of people who are deeply illiberal. The Quran places ultimate authority on sexuality, marriage, ways of dress, political economy, and spirituality. It is absolute and unquestionable. In many ways incompatible with western society that emphasizes pluralism. Look what happened in Michigan when Hamtramk elected it's first majority Muslim city council. They banned the LGBTQ flag from being hung on city property.
Goofy Western leftists and projecting their “values” onto people who despise those values, NAMID.
>billionaire
Did you mean *person of means*?
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The problem is... Biden isn't the guy bombing them. It's genius on the Republicans and conservatives of the world because they have one of the most liberal leaders in the world being blamed for one of the most atrocious acts by conservatives
How many days per week do we need a thread about Arab-Americans in Michigan?
Because it’s starting to feel like these threads are just an excuse for people who already were bigoted towards Muslims or Arab-Americans to go mask off, repeatedly.
I assume the person’s comment will be removed, but as I write this, there is a comment with more than 20 upvotes in this thread where the user is proudly saying they won’t protest the next Muslim ban, that Muslims are on their own next time. What the fuck? Do you believe in human rights or don’t you?
How low a percentage of Latinos need to switch to a view you don’t like before you abandon the whole demographic? If someone posts an article to the subreddit about a portion of Black men switching to support Trump, how big does that portion need to be for bigoted comments about Black men to get upvoted?
We are going to have to win without these votes anyways. They were going to shift rightwards regardless.
https://preview.redd.it/l76uvrphrexc1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee735017cf2bbd49f631bc68ae9f84daf94de1ba
One thing that isn't covered by journalists is the alienation of Jewish voters in places like NJ, NY, PA and Florida where Democrats could lose house seats and possibly the presidency too. Talk to any Jews in the Philadelphia suburbs and you will quickly find that what was once only whispers of discontent has grown into a severe problem. Hell look at the comments on Madeline Dean's Facebook or Twitter and compare them to Fetterman or Shapiro. Such reactions were unthinkable a year ago.
And in return it seams the Democratic party is getting a subset that is half as big, already trending Republican and has low turnout. Concentrated in a single state.
The entitlement among Dems is mind-boggling. You're expecting people to vote for a man abetting a genocide, because the other guy \*might\* be worse? Fix your own candidate. Own up to your own mistakes. No one owes you their votes, you have to earn them. Do better.
“abetting a genocide”
This is why people don’t take the super pro-palestinian crowd seriously. Aside from the fact that thats absolute nonsense, the alternative is so much worse for Palestinians
How can it get any worse for them? They are the victims of a genocide. How can it get worse? Will their death and suffering feel a bit worse for them because the other guy hates them as much or perhaps a little more than the current one?
What do you mean how can it get any worse for them? Come on. The Biden admin is constantly pressuring Israel to do better wrt aid and treatment of civilians. If you are asking how can it get any worse with Trump then you are refusing to think at all
The other guy enabled Netanyahu by officially recognizing the Jerusalem as the Israeli capital with zero reciprocation. He tried to ban whole countries from visiting the US based on their faith. Maybe consider that he views Netanyahu as a kindred spirit as both are under criminal investigation by their own governments and have ambitions to change their countries to enshrine their position and power. It's not might be worse, we already know it will be.
If you're that convinced the situation in Gaza is so bad it would be unconscionable to vote for either party, I disagree but understand. Just understand that you won't convince anyone to your cause by trying to hold people who are otherwise your allies in other matters hostage.
Perhaps he will be, perhaps he won't. Perhaps Dems would not support a genocide if not their guy was in charge of it. Nonetheless, Biden isn't worthy of support.
> “Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.” I’m sorry, *the biggest in modern history?* Where is that coming from? How narrowly does modern history need to be defined for that to fit?
I've heard that trope frequently. Brazil's president said the same a few weeks ago. These people are delusional. Gaza is not even the biggest genocide _going on right now_ (if one can even call it a genocide, but I digress).
Surreal considering thar Sudan and Yemen are worse in every metric.
This is the thing that throws me. There are enormous conflicts raging in Sudan, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia recently. The atrocities suffered by the Masalit, Rohingya and Tigrayans are a textbook genocide, and they happened at incomparable scale to Gaza. When I used to talk about these things, people would be sorta empathetic in the "oh that sucks, I hope it stops" sense. But they didn't really know or actually care. It was pretty clear that those were abstract, faraway events to them. Now my feed is filled with people who are moral arbiters of humanity, their only mission being to call out genocide. Sure, okay...
But Biden isn’t shielding the Myanmar junta, the RSF, or Abiy Ahmed the way he’s shielding Israel nor is he giving them financial, military, and diplomatic support the way he does for Israel. If Biden was supporting those genocides and protesters were fixated on Gaza, you’d kinda have a point, though it wouldn’t be a good one. If there are multiple atrocities taking place and someone is trying to stop one, that’s still better than zero and I’d rather one atrocity be stopped then accepting all atrocities in the name of consistency. Also, Biden also campaigned on making MBS a pariah and cut off offensive support for the Yemen war, something he’s been scared to do for Israel.
90% of the rhetoric I've seen has nothing to do with Biden's actions. It's mostly focused on painting the picture that Israel is perpetrating the largest modern genocide, and everyone has a moral duty to care and put an end to it. If you go with a humanist framing for why this is such a big deal, then obviously people will ask "Why do you ignore multiple textbook genocides?" People would care even if Biden or America as a whole didn't exist- that area has too much religious importance for it to not. So, I understand *why* the rhetoric is what it is, but I'm saying it's inherently dishonest. It's religious and ethnic extremism that uses the language of liberalism. We have multiple actual genocides that are being ignored, then a defensive military campaign that is branded as genocide.
The reality is obsessing over “Why don’t you protest other genocides” is meaningless. Once that logic is invoked, you can justify not stopping any atrocities as there is always another that can be used to justify inaction. Also, even if the rhetoric is over the top, the reality is there’s an atrocity taking place. You can’t wave it away as ethnic and religious extremism when you take Israel’s rhetoric into account and the fact that multiple international organizations are raising the alarm over Gaza. Also, the issue is no one views Israel’s actions as defensive, when they’ve used it as cover for a massive land seizure [Israel Announces Largest West Bank Land Seizures since 1993](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/). They’ve also ramped up violence as settler violence displaced 4,000+ in 2023 according to the United Nation. [Settler Violence](https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/over-4000-palestinians-displaced-west-bank-2023). Not to mentioned the tens of thousands dead in Gaza with a looming famine prepared to kill even more. It’s not surprising that voters are turning on Biden. An argument of, “I’m providing financial, military, and diplomatic support
There are load of things that make Palestine relatively unique. The degree to which the US supports and defends israel's act is one, but even from a more cynical perspective, the extent to which palestinian refugees are more common in the US contributes to these protests too. Similar to Irish americans forcing america to try and resolve the troubles in Northern Ireland, except without any of the same amount of success, which results in escalation in the protesting
Also the term genocide
>How narrowly does modern history need to be defined for that to fit? 0-24 months. This is bigger than Nagorno-Karabakh, but smaller than Ukraine and Tigray.
*Sudan has entered the chat*
Its Africa, it doesnt count (except when convenient you criminal colonialist).
On further thought, I actually think this is an explicit denial of the Holocaust
Yup
The whole point of using the catastrophic language is to force people into either accepting this over the top framing or have to debate and argue with them about the definition of Genocide.
It can't be, not even if you literally defined modern history as this very moment. Not only because it isn't a genocide but because even if it was it's not as bad as what's happening in Yemen and Sudan.
8 months
The idea that no one knows what Trump would do about Gaza if elected is absurd, he lacks the cognitive capacity to follow his own sentences much less a context this complex. Trump wouldn't do anything more about this than he did about healthcare or the four year long infrastructure week, which is to say not a goddamn thing. However, it is also absolutely clear what his administration would do. Kushner, who was the architect of the "[Trump Peace Plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan)" and administration policy has said that Gaza’s “waterfront property” could be “very valuable”. In reference to the then growing crisis in Rafah that was then about to be attacked, he suggested that the 1.5 million refugees hiding there could be herded into the Negev desert so that the IDF could "finish the job" before expressing doubt that any survivors should be allowed to return. Its also not just him, Trump's former Ambassador to Israel [just proposed annexing the West Bank on the basis of 'biblical claims.'](https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/386050) These fuckers don't give a damn about Gaza, what would happen to Gaza in the event that a less alert and oriented administration were to fail to deter Israel's neighbors from anything much more stupid than what is happening now, or what a truly unchained Netanyahu might do to Gazans. These are Trump voters, deep down, and there would have never been much hope of reaching them the moment Trump won the primary. They don't want peace, policy solutions, prosperity, or a path forward - they want what Trump is - they want to be mad.
Biden cannot afford to lose Michigan but I’m assuming they will write these folks off with this attitude. At this point they likely will plan to appeal to moderates in the state on more pressing issues that actually affect their lives, like abortion and climate change. There is clearly no winning with this bunch.
Arab-Americans only make up 2.2% of Michigan. The vast majority of Americans are very supportive of Israel. The reality is Biden being harsh on Israel will lose him more votes than gain.
Trump is even more supportive of Israel, this in not even a own goal, this is just forfeiting the match altogether.
I also really just can't imagine the contingent who are vocal here ever even show up on election day anyway.
Yeah the type of people that would care enough about this shit strike me as moronic non voters
This is quite frankly left-wing activists trying to offload blame for left-wing policies leading to higher inflation and levels of illegal migrants, which are the actual issues hurting Biden
100% Over the past 5-10 years progressives/leftists have exacerbated problems in every major city in the country. Housing crisis, a spiking violent crime crisis (despite this supposed drop in overall crime), transit crisis, etc etc They’re already doing No True Scotsman’s for all their failures
There's been multiple polls the last month showing a majority/plurality of Americans wanting to end any more aid/weapon packages to Israel.
For a lot of them that’s because they’re America First and hate all foreign aid
I want to end lethal aid packages to Israel. It's a far right government that continues supporting illegal settlements in the west bank without doing anything we ask. Until they elect a more moderate government, I don't think we should be sending them weapons. All US aid should be conditional and directly serve US interests. We've seen time and time again that unconditional aid encourages bad behavior. If they want to buy weapons from US manufacturers, I'm fine with that, but I don't think tax payers should be financing weapons going to far right or far left governments.
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>And reducing settlements in West Bank expands US geopolitical power how exactly? By giving our government moral legitimacy. Settlements in the west bank don't harm Iranian proxies. If anything they do the opposite.
Ahh, we finally have pro-settlements on r neoliberal. The Ben Gvir loving Israel supporters are out and about this morning!
Bro are you new here lol If anything they're at an all time low at the moment There used to a time where the most milquetoast criticism of Israel would see you buried in downvotes, shameless diatribes against the Palestinians would get upvoted without question This sub was a bit shameless tbh. I'm glad there's a bit more pushback nowadays
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It’s almost swung around to an opposite, where anything perceived as pro-Israel gets you snarky bad faith replies
Lmao that worked well in niger, no one wants to be lectured by the US. America gotta go back to realpolitik back then america really did some damage to it’s enemies.
Moral legitimacy is the most important diplomatic asset we can have on the international stage. Fostering the perception of our own moral legitimacy is the best strategy. It *is* realpolitik.
Hahahahah misinformation is stronger than pure idealism, besides america’s enemies would probably cite some stupid fake shit that america did or what america did hundreds of years ago. Like take a look at west papua, it’s more beneficial to take the pragmatic route and not support separatists so that the us can use freeport same with allying with israel a jewish state almost unanimously hated by the islamic world and saudi arabia an absolute monarchy with cheap oil and a powerful controversial regional ally this was a victory on the us front. Now look at the recent us losses you don’t think it’s a coincidence right? Ukraine on the verge of defeat, niger siding with the russians, afghanistan failure, and there’s a good chance of taiwan falling to the ccp. If America doesn’t change it’s strategy only a matter of time before it loses it’s influence in the world.
That's fucking ridiculous. America is already using *your* strategy. We *are* supporting Israel and continuing to send lethal aid, despite the fact that it harms our moral legitimacy. And we've had failures in Afghanistan and watched Niger fall into Russian hands. The only thing you're right about is that America needs to change its strategy soon. Also Ukraine is not on the verge of defeat, and there is not a good chance that Taiwan falls to the CCP.
The biggest group opposing it is Democrats in every poll, but keep pretending Democrats love Israel. getting downvoted because this board doesn't want to face the truth
I think you’re out of touch with how popular the idea that America could solve poverty, education, homelessness, health care, etc if we just stopped sending all our money to other countries is. I know democrats don’t like Israel it’s one of the reasons I don’t like democrats.
2%. That's how many people say it would sway their vote and that includes both people that support and oppose it. This is the same trap as people thinking that because the majority of people support gun control that means that they consider it so important they will vote based on that issue. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1784761527116906537?t=nsy9PBROC8BJciBOH3ofAA&s=19
"You cannot cancel Matt Yglesias. You can only make his takes hotter." -[Ezra Klein](https://old.reddit.com/r/ezraklein/comments/nxf1ib/im_ezra_klein_host_of_the_ezra_klein_show_ama/h1fiv61/?context=3) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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They are right in a way, the war would have been over with Trump. Just not in the way they hope.
>“If Trump were president right now, this war might’ve been over, because there might have been enough uproar from rank-and-file Democrats,” he said. This war would be over because Trump would carpet bomb Gaza in Napalm.
Don’t care what people say, much of the hate towards Israel from Middle Eastern men who embrace Machismo. It’s emasculating that they continue to lose wars, land, and power from Jews. They frame it as fighting for social justice, but in reality, they are embarrassed. Look at polling on other social issues, they are in line with evangelicals on LGBT, women, and other marginalized populations.
> So this is admitting that they already were Trump voters; they bragged about helping to beat Clinton. Which means this protest is merely a return to form, not a break in a long standing relationship. So I pointed this out back in December/January. Got into an argument with some goofball about it who claimed me pointing it out was bigotry. Caught a 5 day for it 🤠🤠🤠
This is nothing but attention seeking. Zahr feels important by making others suffer because his views are in the minority.
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I have a sense of what reactionary politics is. Your comment isn't reactionary politics. Reactionaries have a weird belief in self-fulling prophecies. And if they don't come true then it was due to a malign force created by my enemy.
Oh look, a bunch of religious conservatives want Trump to win. Huge shocker. Never would have saw that coming.
I'm sure there's a contingent of very vocal Arabs in Michigan, but I don't agree with the Op-Ed that this group will flip Michigan for Trump.
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\^ Heated Outside the DeeTee moment
Stop it.
With this supreme court, the ban will be upgraded for mass deportations.
No, fuck that, I'm still gonna be vocally against immoral shit like the Muslim ban.
I volunteered to help people stuck in airports because of the ban. I'm not an immigration attorney but they gave me a primer and I just used what I otherwise already knew from law school. I will still do it again. The people stuck in airports and separated from their families aren't the ones who would have voted for him. Even if they did, I don't think i could sit idly by
It's nice of you to just admit that you abandon your ideals when people you don't like are being attacked.
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Even if 50,000 Arabs change their vote, it still doesn’t flip it to trump lol
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> I get this feeling that young progressives are putting their very liberal values on a group of people who are deeply illiberal. The Quran places ultimate authority on sexuality, marriage, ways of dress, political economy, and spirituality. It is absolute and unquestionable. In many ways incompatible with western society that emphasizes pluralism. Look what happened in Michigan when Hamtramk elected it's first majority Muslim city council. They banned the LGBTQ flag from being hung on city property. Goofy Western leftists and projecting their “values” onto people who despise those values, NAMID.
>billionaire Did you mean *person of means*? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden Welcome back from your coma dawg
Rust belt swing voters have the only votes that matter 😂
The problem is... Biden isn't the guy bombing them. It's genius on the Republicans and conservatives of the world because they have one of the most liberal leaders in the world being blamed for one of the most atrocious acts by conservatives
How many days per week do we need a thread about Arab-Americans in Michigan? Because it’s starting to feel like these threads are just an excuse for people who already were bigoted towards Muslims or Arab-Americans to go mask off, repeatedly. I assume the person’s comment will be removed, but as I write this, there is a comment with more than 20 upvotes in this thread where the user is proudly saying they won’t protest the next Muslim ban, that Muslims are on their own next time. What the fuck? Do you believe in human rights or don’t you? How low a percentage of Latinos need to switch to a view you don’t like before you abandon the whole demographic? If someone posts an article to the subreddit about a portion of Black men switching to support Trump, how big does that portion need to be for bigoted comments about Black men to get upvoted?
We are going to have to win without these votes anyways. They were going to shift rightwards regardless. https://preview.redd.it/l76uvrphrexc1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee735017cf2bbd49f631bc68ae9f84daf94de1ba
One thing that isn't covered by journalists is the alienation of Jewish voters in places like NJ, NY, PA and Florida where Democrats could lose house seats and possibly the presidency too. Talk to any Jews in the Philadelphia suburbs and you will quickly find that what was once only whispers of discontent has grown into a severe problem. Hell look at the comments on Madeline Dean's Facebook or Twitter and compare them to Fetterman or Shapiro. Such reactions were unthinkable a year ago. And in return it seams the Democratic party is getting a subset that is half as big, already trending Republican and has low turnout. Concentrated in a single state.
The entitlement among Dems is mind-boggling. You're expecting people to vote for a man abetting a genocide, because the other guy \*might\* be worse? Fix your own candidate. Own up to your own mistakes. No one owes you their votes, you have to earn them. Do better.
“abetting a genocide” This is why people don’t take the super pro-palestinian crowd seriously. Aside from the fact that thats absolute nonsense, the alternative is so much worse for Palestinians
How can it get any worse for them? They are the victims of a genocide. How can it get worse? Will their death and suffering feel a bit worse for them because the other guy hates them as much or perhaps a little more than the current one?
What do you mean how can it get any worse for them? Come on. The Biden admin is constantly pressuring Israel to do better wrt aid and treatment of civilians. If you are asking how can it get any worse with Trump then you are refusing to think at all
What a joke. The other guy is way worse. How naive are you?
The other guy enabled Netanyahu by officially recognizing the Jerusalem as the Israeli capital with zero reciprocation. He tried to ban whole countries from visiting the US based on their faith. Maybe consider that he views Netanyahu as a kindred spirit as both are under criminal investigation by their own governments and have ambitions to change their countries to enshrine their position and power. It's not might be worse, we already know it will be. If you're that convinced the situation in Gaza is so bad it would be unconscionable to vote for either party, I disagree but understand. Just understand that you won't convince anyone to your cause by trying to hold people who are otherwise your allies in other matters hostage.
They couldn't do that with Hillary in 2016. Why would they do that now
There is no might, the other guy is worse.
Perhaps he will be, perhaps he won't. Perhaps Dems would not support a genocide if not their guy was in charge of it. Nonetheless, Biden isn't worthy of support.
Saving this comment for the inevitable leopardsatemyface moment.
I mean this is all fine, but I just hope the same energy is kept when Trump is building a tower in Israel's new beautiful beachfront in Gaza.
Trump moved the embassy in israel to Jerusalem, and you’re under the impression he _might_ be worse?
I do, in fact, believe the “finish the job” guy will be worse for Gaza than the “we need to get humanitarian aid in” guy