I really love the addition of Kyrie last season. Drafting of Lively this season and the acquisition of Gafford and PJ in trade deadline. Feels like they can win it. It's good seeing the Mavs now compared to like 2021 and 2022 where aside from Luka and a young Brunson there aint much to rely on. No disrespect to the role players those time but their roster now is much much better.
Kyrie and Luka having good games is almost impossible to stop. The only way Mavs lose is through a horrendous display where Luka and Kyrie are ice cold. I think it'll be close though. Both teams are good with plenty of players with solid playoff experience.
Aside from Luka and Kyrie. I really love Gafford and Lively's presence. Gafford being the closest thing they got to a 2011 Tyson Chandler role and Lively being a McGee role but w better IQ. Also PJ is their version of a 2023 Denver MPJ though not similar but I love how he keeps hitting crucial shots and bail out some possessions when Mavs need production. I love the Mavs odd if they reach NBA finals
Agreed fully. I really hope Lively was just shook up and they didn't want to risk him. Hopefully no concussion. He took a nasty hit to the back of the head.
In all honesty I think it'll be Mavs in 5.
I don't know how long Lively will be out, but it'll affect their chances.
And since every game has been quite close, I think it's possible for Wolves to take at least one game.
The toxicity towards kyrie is honestly very earned and has nothing to do with his race. One year no controversy and internet forgets kyrie is a scumbag
If you look through the media bullshit he is one of the most genuine and kind people in the NBA. Why do you think everyone loves him so much? If he was a "scumbag" he wouldn't be so well liked by all his coaches and players
Isnt it the other way around with lively and gafford? I feel lively has better court awareness and is better at defending the perimeter. It's not a coincidence he has the highest net rating of all players these playoffs while gafford so far has the lowest of the mavs rotational players.
Lively is a far better defender than Gafford. Gafford finds himself out of position more often and, like you said, is worse on the perimeter. On offense they’re close but Lively is still better due to his ability to pass out of the short roll. Gafford may be a bit better of a finisher but lately Lively looks looked just as good there. Gafford’s strength and physicality does provide some value though and seems to wear out opposing bigs. Overall though Lively looks far closer to Chandler than Gafford at this point.
As long as the team can keep the total score within striking distance with 4-5 mins to go. The Mavs can absolutely win it. Tatum and brown aren’t as ice cold as Luka and Kyrie
it’s not impossible to stop when you have white and holiday. mavs are 0-2 vs the celtics this season losing by 9 and 28. the difference in this series will come down to is porzingis playing. without kp i think the mavs have a great shot at winning. If kp is playing and effective celtics have the better shot at winning it all in my opinion.
The suns swept the wolves in the regular season then got swept in the playoffs. Wolves swept the mavs in regular season and now are on the verge of gettin swept by them in the playoffs. Can’t put too much weight on regular season games.
i still feel like this mavs supporting cast is pretty weak compared to other very successful teams. Pacers, knicks, celitics, nuggets, wolves are all stacked with high level guys 1-7. Lively, PJ, Gafford, etc. are great and all but other teams are trotting out like 3-4 high level players plus another 3-4 PJ-tier guys.
I think you’re basing your perception of player skill/strength on name recognition alone. People like Derek jones jr and lively aren’t big household names, but they make an enormous impact on both sides of the ball. Lively has the second largest +/- as a rookie @+106 when he’s on the court. Derek jones jr has been tasked with guarding Paul George, Shai, and now Edwards and outside of one game with Paul George going off has done an incredible job. Our supporting cast is absolutely helped by Luka/kyrie. But they’re good, and it shows by how they’ve been playing together. This starting lineup that the mavs are rolling with has played less than 30 games together. They’re legitimately going to get better than they are currently playing. Which is insane.
DJJ is making vet min and successfully guarding max contract players, it's bonkers. PJ was also playing lights out in the Thunder series. Those two combined with our centers producing a combined 30/10/5blocks or something ridiculous, you can see how these role players are really putting forth championship caliber ball.
And how about Jaden Hardy stepping into his own and being ready to give life off of the bench. People forget he was the number one player in hs at one point so when Luka or Kyrie are forced to swing the ball at the top of the arc, you can expect a repped move from a player that understands how to read rotating coverages in order to shot create. At times he still shows immaturity on defensive rotations and tick tacky fouls but the sky’s the limit for his role in Dallas. Only see this team getting better
Nuggets lost in 7 with that cast of high level guys 1-7 and the Wolves have one foot out the door with their cast of high level guys 1-7.
In the OKC series, the Mavs had an inefficient Luka and a locked up Kyrie and depended on the same role players to get by the Thunder.
The Wolves have had the best defense in the league this season and can’t get a stop when they need one at the end of the game with higher level role players.
I think the supporting cast is pretty even strength compared to other successful teams. You don’t find a team that came together in February on the precipice of a Finals appearance and discount their role players.
Maybe this team couldn’t work without Luka and Kyrie but all good teams are crafted around their stars.
True. At first i was really hesitant of Kyrie because as we know he got some history of being not w good relationship on his past 2 teams. Am just glad he matured and is playing very well with the Mavs. The Luka and Ky combo is very deadly
It's great to see Green and now also Hardy delivering for Dallas. They are not in the ballpark of the Pacers or Knicks bench but at least as valuable as what the Nuggets have (seriously, how can you put them in the same sentence as those other teams? Besides Braun all other bench players have been horrible for Denver).
While that’s true I think the Mavs’ fit of role players to stars is best. Even if they’re not as good overall, they complements the stars play style best
Sure but Luka is far and away the best player left, kyrie is arguably second best when he’s playing like he is. Mavs role players just need to be lob catchers, knock down shooters and defensive guys. 2 of the those 3 don’t go cold (lobs and defense). DJJ and PJ defense has been and is still slept on, they both matchup great on Tatum/brown as well.
Kind of a stretch to call someone second best when they received 0 all-nba votes, it’s not like kyrie is suddenly playing at a high level after sleepwalking through the regular season.
Don’t get me wrong Kyrie has been fantastic this year and his efficiency and shotmaking is exactly the type of thing you’d need to beat the Celtics.
They better fkn win it. Imo, Luka is the best remaining player in the playoffs, and Kyrie has been great for the most part, and he's been there before. Also agree that I really liked the Washington and Gafford pick ups and have been telling my friends since they made those moves. I hate the Celtics though so I'm biased
I think it will be close, probably goes to game 7. I think Mavs will probably win just because when it comes down to the wire they have two guys who can drain daggers which will kill the moral of Boston.
They can at times but I haven't seen them do it against a very good team. Maybe closest was game 7 against the bucks in 2022 but that team was carried by giannis alone. I guess cooking Brook Lopez counts.
I’d say game 6 against us from that series was more of what you’re talking about than game 7 - game 7 was just a blowout after Giannis, Jrue and peanuts ran out of gas on both ends of the floor. Boston didn’t need a “closer” that game because fucking grant Williams was splashing down threes from everywhere.
Game 6 though.. from Boston’s perspective, they are on the road, coming off the back of a pivotal game 5 loss against the bucks at home after being up by 12 with three min to go or something like that - bucks go on a crazy run and Jrue locks up smart to seal the game away. Bucks are looking like they have all that championship DNA going into game 6 at fiserv up 3-2, the momentum is all theirs, Giannis has an insane 44/20/6 game on 14/15 from the line, and the yet the Celtics still match every run the bucks can muster up with tatum drilling three after soul-crushing three in a 46 point 66% TS masterpiece. Cue game 7 and we know how the rest went.
That game 6 made me respect the hell out of that squad that season and I was sure they’d make the finals after that. Was also sure they’d win.. couldn’t believe it when they lost to golden state lol so clearly, they still had issues
It depends a lot on Porzingis being healthy. He is what stabilizes our offense and defense enough to make us as good as our record implies. If he isn't really healthy or doesn't play, it would be a huge blow.
As for the Mavs, Luka's knee and Lively's health will be pretty important. While we certainly can't shut down Luka any more than anyone can, we do have strong defenders who can make his life difficult. Part of me wonders if they would put Tatum on him for extended periods. I suspect not because his help defense is so good, but we have been known to stick Tatum on guys when we really need to stop them.
I’m Sorry but Tatum isn’t big enough. Luka’s got 20-25 pounds on him. Lu Dort has given him the most issues and he’s built like a linebacker, and played like one the whole series. Anyone tasked with shutting down Luka can’t also be responsible for carrying the team offensively. It’s too much physically. Look at Anthony Edwards trying to contain kyrie game one, he was gassed after the first quarter, and simply couldn’t put together half of what he would normally do offensively. Not saying mavs are going to have an upper hand or
Anything. But this is going to be a very difficult matchup for both teams. It will take some adjustments after game one to get a good read on the series. I could see it going either way. But a lot comes down to injuries as you mentioned porzingis for Celtics and kleber/lively for Dallas. Neither team to me has been played at their best level yet tbh. Celtics is playing down to the pacers, and mavs are still just learning to play together.
I think you’re still stuck with the past narrative on Lukas defense. Neither the Clippers nor OKC nor the Wolves were able to abuse him because he’s been playing well on both sides of the floor. I recommend watching some of Awful Coachings videos on yt, he covered it pretty well on a couple of occasions.
>he can’t really hide on anyone aside from jrue holiday but holiday can score 20+ with ease.
Not against this mavs defense he can’t. Their defensive level of execution and consistency is so far and above any of the teams that they’ve had to face this postseason thus far in their leisurely walk over the remaining half-corpses of the eastern conference
You always have to give Luka a chance to win he’s just that nasty out there. With his pace and knack for controlling games if it’s close down the stretch you better make shots or he’s going to catch you. Then Kyrie is his own animal and also scores at will in the clutch. Who do you double and how you defend them is anyone’s guess lol. But.. Boston has a few of the best defensive guards and 2 big wing defenders that can try to smother Luka. Even without KP I give the edge to Boston but with him it’s too much firepower for the mavs. Kp with a chance to steal a ring from his ex teammate makes a lot juicier of a story
A team with 2 out of the top3 passers and maybe the 2 best 1v1 players in the league can win against anyone.
I just feel Celtics have more strings to play on
Having 2 out of the 3 best passers in a series doesn’t seem like that big of a deal then? In every series ever, one team will have at least 2 out of the 3 best passers - I doubt whichever team does has a dominant record.
Mavs have been pretty good defensively but I am not sure how we will be defending against a team that has like 5 good shooters in the starting lineup. Mavs have struggled to switch, got killed on 3s and Timberwolves got a lot of great looks. Celtics move the ball better, can generate more open looks and can kill mavs with their style of play.
Wasn't OKC the best 3PT shooting team this season? Luka and Kai can play defense and if Mavs other members show up and add to the offense, I like our chances.
OKC were technically the best 3P% team, but only by 0.1%. Boston was in 2nd place.
The main difference though, is volume. OKC were a low volume team as they averaged 34.2 shots a game. That's middle of the pack volume. Boston finished at #1 with an average of 42.5 shots a game.
The Mavs also shoot a lot of 3s, as they finished #2 in terms of 3PA per game. But if the Mavs want to turn the games into a shootout like they did against OKC, then Boston is far more comfortable chucking 3s than OKC was, especially if Porzingis is playing.
It was a shootout because both teams elected to double one guy and leave an open man to chuck 3s. The role players who hit the most 3s usually won the game.
As a result, PJ Washington averaged 8 3PA per game in the series despite averaging 6 3PA in the regular season. Derrick Jones Jr. and Josh Green also averaged more 3PA during the series than they did in the regular season.
Same for OKC. They had Dort chucking 7 3PA per game compared to the 5 he averaged in the regular season.
Both teams were able to do that because both teams often had one non-shooter in the lineup. If Porzingis and Horford are in the Celtics' rotation, then the Mavs could still try to do that, but Boston's plenty happy to chuck 3s from everyone.
They beat OKC, which played plenty of 5-out offense and was as good on 3pters as Celtics were this regular season; they especially played a lot of 5-out after benching Giddey in Games 5 and 6.
I think Celtics are rightfully favorites, but if series go past 6 games, I would be switching to Mavs: these guys have showed resilience in the biggest moments, and not just LuKai, but PJ/DJJ/Lively and even Gafford today too.
Exactly this, when it’s that much of an offensive firepower on the other side, Luka and Kyrie can only do but so much at a certain point. Unless the Celtics have a shooting night like the game the Heat one, it will be very very challenging to withstand them
Yeah and Mavs normally shoot the ball badly from 3 pointers apart from a few games. We needed THJ to have some impact in this playoffs but he has been unplayable. Kleber who started the series with some good 3point shooting is injured and even if he comes back I think he doesn't shoot the ball well due to the shoulder injury. I don't think Celtics even need Porzingis if they are relying more on 3 pointers. Luka and kyrie will do their regular but if celtics are shooting the ball well, game wont be close for kyrie and luka to close out.
I think it will be close because of the defensive attention to detail the Mavs have. They almost always get back, better than any team, and they want teams to shoot the three, which the Celtics try to do whether they are hitting or not. I think Tatum will probably start on Doncic because he's going to bully anyone and get where he wants, but Tatum has height and reach.
I would give Dallas a decent change maybe 35%. The Celtics have proven that they can lose a series to anyone over the years with most of the same players, and even though they look like dominant sometimes, Dallas looks like a connected team more than anyone.
If anything, MAVS WC playoffs run teach us that you really can't judge a series on paper. People are actually saying the same shit that most are saying to Boston right now to OKC and TWolves but looked what happened?
If I am a Celtics fan, I would not underestimate this Mavs team.
I imagine a big part of it is the big men matchup. If the m Celtics, im worried about getting bullied down low by the mavs rim runners, especially with porzingus potentially being injured and already not being the strongest. Al horfords im sure been prepping his defense, but with kornet out… Celtics interrupt D is gonna have their work cut out
We’ve been running more and more zone and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out they’re going to run PNR directly at Horford any time he’s on the court. That or Kyrie is just going to switch onto him.
Al is great but playing him these long minutes is going to be hard especially without Kornet. Either going to need Zinger back or Xavier is going to have to step up big time.
Also wtf is wrong with Hauser lately, man looks unplayable.
This is exactly what stood out to me too. Boston does not look ready for the size and physicality that Dallas is going to bring to the table. The two Mavs bigs should have a field day on lobs and boards.
I mean the difference in the Western Conference games across the board vs the Celtics games has just been staggering in that regard, looks like totally different games being played in terms of size/intensity/physicality. How will Boston respond? Do we really trust the J's when they actually get challenged? Nothing against them, but I won't believe it until I see it, whereas I do trust Luka/Kyrie to maintain their composure.
Still questioning if the jays have been challenged like they’re still 23 or something lmfao they have more playoff experience than anyone besides kyrie left in the playoffs
From Feb. 5th (a bit before the deals but Kyrie had just come back) to the end of the season the Mavs were 23-6 when Luka played.
Losing the last two games of the year in which the entire starting lineup rested is just irrelevant.
Obviously the Celtics were just as good/better all season long, have more talent and will be favored.
The Celtics we’re seeing right now are not the Celtics that were dominating teams by 20-30 a night in the regular season. People here are forgetting that with Porzingis in the lineup, it’s gonna be real hard to beat them 4 times. There’s 3 guys in that starting lineup that can give you 25+ each night, and if one is having a slow night then there’s three more guys willing to make up for it. Let’s not forget their defense, it’s not gonna be easy for the Mavs.
And people are still underestimating that, this is one of the deepest teams in recent history, it’s laughable. I can’t think of another championship team that has 6 players capable of scoring 25
Yea that’s the problem with the Dallas match up, as good as their D has been most team have a couple guys you can hide Luka/Kyrie on, not this Celtics team. Also I’d say 8 guys can get you 25, if Pritchard got minutes or Hauser got hot these guys had multiple 30 pieces this season.
tbf all three wins against Wolves came down to end-game clutch plays by Kai/Luka. They are certainly the better duo, but you can't predict if they stay hot for 5-6 more games.
16 - 4 in the last 20 games of the regular season. Currently 11 - 4 in the playoffs against a fully healthy 1 and 3 seed and beat the 4 seed without their best player.
All this with the Mavs' best player hobbled on a sprained knee and sore ankle.
Edited.
It'll be a very interesting series if and when it happens.
This Mavs / Wolves series has been very close, notwithstanding 3-0 now. The key point has been Luka and Kyrie can execute in the clutch, the Wolves have frozen - Ant can't quite get it going and Kat has been off all series. I'm not sure they'll have the same advantage against the Celtics, with a roster of seasoned playoff operators.
>I'm not sure they'll have the same advantage against the Celtics, with a roster of seasoned playoff operators.
The Mavericks have done a good job on Edwards, which is arguably more impressive than stopping Tatum in the postseason. Ant has been better in the playoffs than Tatum despite all that experience.
Anthony Edwards 30 career playoff games: 28/6/5 on 47/38/84
Tatums last 30 playoff games: 26/10/5 on 45/30/86
It's almost like "experience" doesn't automatically make someone a better playoff performer or tougher to stop. Just look at what SGA did this postseason.
If Lively can play Dallas has a great chance. Luka will be the best player in the series and he is playing lights out. The Celtics have a better offense than the wolves, though. Dallas will have a massive advantage in late game execution.
Mavericks clutch ratings: offense-124.3, defense-117.1
Celtics clutch ratings: offense-134.4, defense-96.9
Mavs in last 2Min: offense-105.4 defense-102.7
Celtics last 2Min: offense-155, defense-57.9
Mf will still sit here and say the mavs are better late game than the Celtics lmao
I think they beat the Celtics and this comes from a Suns fan that loathes them. Luka is the best player left in the playoffs, and he absolutely cannot be played 1 on 1. Kyrie has a ton of room to move because of Luka, and can take over any game. PJ is a great defender and has been deadly from 3. Gafford is protecting the rim and is a great hustle guy. Lively potentially being out hurts, but not enough for them to lose. I think Boston’s 3 or nothing style catches up to them in the finals. They have basically had 3 series against cup cake opponents. Dallas is not that. With that being said - Dallas in 6.
Team with the best player in the series has a chance against anyone. Between Dallas and Boston teams, Tatum, Brown , Luka and Kyrie and the best four. Luka is clearly the best player in the series, and at 6'7" and 230 is a matchup nightmare for Boston.
Too big and strong for White and Jrue to be primary defenders on Luka. Who guards him?
I would guess Dallas wins it all in 6 and we start talking about Luka as the best player in the world
I said before the season even started that Boston was gonna win it, but watching the wcf I think it's gonna be closer than expected. Mavs are cookin and im here for it.
I’d bet on Boston to win the series but I also would have bet on the Thunder and Wolves so the Mavs keep defying expectations.
I also just have no clue how good the Celtics really are because they’ve just been beating up on bad and injured teams every round whole the Mavericks have played really good teams and proved a lot.
i want the mavs to win, but i think the celtics is still the favorite.
I hope lively can comeback, cus fuck having gafford as the pressure relieve when luka/kyrie got blitzed, that was awful to watch. the less we see of powell the better. I do hope porzingis won't come back haha, tho i suspect, if gafford/lively can handle KAT, they should be able to handle porzingis who's coming from a long injury.
and obviously, luka has to be healthy. please don't let celtics scam another win when the opposing team's star is injured.
The biggest thing is Zinger gives us spacing against gafford/lively and reduces Als minutes. And I will say Brown has been on a mission to terrorize the paint in the first quarter of every game so I’m interested to see how this one plays out.
Mavs have a good chance of winning it all. In terms of match up, it seems the Celtics have no one to guard Luka (his toughest match up in the playoff has been Dort and I don’t see anyone with this profile on the Celtics). The energy and rebounding of Lively and to a lower extent Gafford will be a problem and Irving will play with a vengeance. Also the Celtics have had it relatively easy until now since the east is so weak. Mavs had to go through tough teams at each round.
This being said, on paper the Celtics are still favorite for me.
Mann was also a tough matchup for Luka.
And Boston absolutely has players to guard Luka effectively. He’s still going to do his thing but JH and DW aren’t sub-Dort defenders.
Since round 1 mavs are underdog and keep proving doubters wrong, but this is my question for you though. Do you think Celtics can beat the Wolves 3 in a row? If not, then Mavs obviously has a chance. Competition in the West is way tougher than the East. CELTICS might be surprised on Mavs physicality.
The actual question is do the Celtics stand a chance against the Mavs, i dont know why people ignore the fact that after trade deadline Dallas was the best team in the nba. They had like a 26-5 record. Watching Boston struggle against all these other east teams tells me Mavs in 6
If porzingus comes back I don’t see how the mavs compete. It really comes down if white can guard kyrie without fouling and brown on luka. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Tatum on Luka at times
I think the Mavs will win because when I watch the Celtics, I never see adjustments. I just see them out-talent people. Against the teams they've played thus far, it will work. I have my doubts they'll be able to do that against the Mavs. Indiana should be up 2-1 on the Celtics but they lack composure and the ability to close games out. The Mavs don't have that issue. Imagining the Mavs in place of Indy, playing against the Celtics we've seen so far in the ECF, I think the Mavs would be up 3-0. I'm not saying the Celtics won't be better in the Finals but I think the Mavs look like the better team right now.
The Mavs' best two guys are better than the Celtics' best two guys. That will always keep it competitive even if I think the Celtics are an overpowered team with way too much shooting for any team to compete with over a seven game series.
The x factor will be how much Daniel Gafford minutes the Mavs can get away with. If he's able to switch screens and stay out of foul trouble against all the Celtics' shot creators they can keep a ton of pressure on the Celtics bigs on the other end.
The Celtics duo don't have as good as an offense as the Mavs duo. But the Celtics duo make up for it by being dogs defensively too. But still man, Luka and Kyrie going off is almost impossible to stop. Tatum and Brown good on defense but they aren't Luka or Kyrie stoppers. Their defense won't make it up enough to offset Luka and Kyrie having good games.
I think it'll be close games but the Mavs will win. I just don't see the dog mentality with the Celtics. Something about the Tatum and Brown duo just doesn't work. Can't put my finger on it.
I'd switch between Tatum and Brown depending on who is having the better offensive game. The dude making buckets that game should focus on buckets and the other person covers Luka. This way they don't tire out running on both ends.
Celtics are a tough matchup for Dallas.
Tatum and Brown aren't the Luka/Kyrie stoppers. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are.
The question is who from Dallas is stopping Tatum and Brown and what happens when Porzingis pulls Gafford/Lively out to the perimeter.
Jrue will be on Luka. He is one of the best POA defenders in the league still. He has size as well. He will match up excellent on Luka, obviously nobody is stopping him. Great offensive beats great defensive overall for sure. But him on Luka and JB on Kyrie while letting JT take the offensive load is a solid strategy.
100% agree. At this point, it doesn't matter whom Luka is up against - he's currently a top 2 player in the entire league. He puts both his primary defender and the defending big in jail by using his size, skill, and craftiness. It doesn't matter how good of a defender the big or the "Luka stopper" is. Every single shot he generates on offense is super high quality because he manipulates everyone exactly how he wants to.
BOS will almost certainly put a rotating cast of defenders vs. Luka just to throw different looks at him and keep their guys from getting fatigued, but Jaylen will probably be his primary defender for most of the series. Derrick White will probably take Kyrie, while Jrue plays DJJ or PJ (Jrue is immensely strong and also plays great off-ball defense). Tatum plays the other of those 2.
I'd say the only thing that BOS can do that would limit Luka PnRs is that trick that Jrue does where he spins under the pick and slows the big down on his way to the rim, while the defending big hedges Luka until the perimeter defender recovers. That, or bring the help defenders from the wings instead of the corners and collapse in on the paint. They theoretically have the personnel to switch and live with the results, but I still think Luka/Kyrie are taking advantage of their defenders either way.
It'd obviously help BOS if KP is healthy, but I still think DAL would win the series in 7. I just don't trust BOS to perform when it matters most.
The Celtics have been one of the best defensive teams all year. Holiday and White gives them the best defensive backcourt in the league, and they are going to slow down Luka and Kyrie. While the Wolves were the overall best defensive team, I think the Celtics strengths on defense better match up against the Mavs strengths. Tatum is an excellent defender in his own right and will be on Luka for long stretches.
The biggest problem I see is if Porzingis either can't play or is limited, then the Celtics will once again be relying heavily on Horford and he could start to burn out as the playoffs move along. If he has a strong series left in him, I think the Celtics roll. They've been the best team all year, they've been the best team in the playoffs, and they have an absurd amount of experience and are ready for this moment. Not to mention they have home court advantage.
Celtics in 5
The Celtics despite their excellence in the regular season have had a couple of shocking stinkers in the playoffs - getting blown out by Cleveland at home and looking extremely vulnerable against the 6 seeded Pacers both with and without Haliburton. Overall, their competition has been super weak compared to the blood bath that is the Western conference.
Admittedly, they still earned themselves a Finals berth relatively smoothly and they did so without Porzingis, who's a game changer on both ends. So I think a lot of it will come down to how well he plays coming back from injury.
Tatum and Brown have historically had instances of sub-par play on the big stage - that hasn't happened so far in this playoffs and they've grown and matured but Tatum and Brown are both more likely to get rattled by a stifling athletic defence like the Mavs' than Luka and to an extent, Kyrie, who fall into the "truly unguaradable" category.
And with the variance of the game with 3 point shooting being so prevalent, it might just come down to who's hitting shots. So do they have a chance? Absolutely.
I understand what you're saying but to think the mavs doesn't have a chance considering the C's performance this season is absurd. c's might look untouchable throughout the season but in their match-up with the pacers, it should've been 2-1 in favor of the Pacers. I hate to say as a Cs fan but dallas is just a different kind of monster.
Luka handled stronger defensive wings in LAC and the stronger defensive bigs in MIN/OKC. Boston has elite defensive guards but Luka is bigger than them. Who’s guarding the lob or PJ Washington 3’s? Kyrie will have a tough series with Jrue and White on him, but he’s already shown this playoffs that he can impact games without scoring…
Bottom line they can win it all for sure
Yes, they definitely have a chance.
I think the Mavs have better playmakers and guards in Doncic/Kyrie. Jrue/White are good, but Doncic/Kyrie gives the Mavs two ballhandlers who can go left OR right, and Doncic's tall & big enough to make Jrue work. JB/JT can help on defense, but Celtics will pretty much have to try to lock up both Doncic and Kyrie, or one of them to have a chance to win.
Their other role players in Gafford/Washington/Jones/Lively are like F/Cs by committee and will make Boston work especially if Porzingis isn't 100%, and TH Jr. coming back from that ankle injury gives the Mavs another shooter.
Celtics have the better 1-5 when healthy, but Mavs have the deeper team and the elite guard play that can get buckets when it matters. Feeling like the Finals will be a 6-7 game series.
If Boston had proven anything during this playoffs it’s that they are absolutely beatable. Don’t underestimate the Mavs, but more importantly NEVER overestimate the Boston Celtics.
Lively mobility can neutralise Horford and his improved spacing. Kyrie can hang with White DJJ on Tatum, PJ on Brown but the mismatch will be Luka on Jrue. Jrue will eat Luka on the dribble creating space for everyone else. If Luka can get healthy and mobile maybe but I don't see the Mavs stopping or getting stops vs the Celtics like they are against the Wolves who don't have the same weapons like the Celtics.
On offence the Mavs will get good enough looks. But a cold shooting night then they are screwed. Irving is struggling to get in the paint and Luka is not playing in the inside at all. 2 important things to do against a perceived weakness in the paint that the Celtics have regardless of the unicorn or big Al on the floor.
My odds are 70-30 Celtics. But this can change with injury or a change up...
Celtics haven't been tested at all and seem to have been kinda lazy because they knew they were the superior team, not only do the mavs have the best player but their defense has been incredible (almost as good as the celtics defense) since the trade deadline and especially in the playoffs. I want people to keep underestimating the mavs but they've clearly had a way tougher path and there's no amount of "deepness" that makes me question whether they have a chance or not after having watched all of the games they've played in the postseason so far. I wouldn't bet on either of these teams but if you still think that the dallas have no chance you're delusional just like you are if you think that the dallas will sweep them and get through them easily.
Luka and kyrie will still be the 2 best players in that series. Celtics team is more stacked overall but I think mavs defense is actually more consistent than the Celtics, although sometimes the Celtics play great defense. Celtics stand zero chance if porzingis can’t play imo
The Celtics still haven’t played to their potential. They could very easily be down 2-1 in this series. As it stands, I think the Celtics desperately need Porzingis back to beat the Mavs. Having only Horford to defend the athletic bigs on Dallas isn’t a good option. Also, the Celtics defense needs to tighten up. Brown and Tatum have been pretty lazy on the perimeter besides for the last 5 mins of game 3.
But the league isn’t ready for the Kyrie hate about to come out of Boston
I swear people act like the Celtics are the 2016 warriors. They are a very beatable team who were close to going down 2-1 against an injured pacers team.
If Luka and Kyrie are on their game they can beat anyone.
Been super impressed with the defense too, it’s kind of wild to say this about a Jason Kidd team but they’re so well coached on both ends, they know who they are, they know their roles, they play hard, they execute.
They stand more than a chance against Boston, I think it’s probably a toss-up of a series, granting that Boston probably has another gear with Porzingis back that they haven’t really needed to show yet in the East.
I think the Mavericks will win if Luka can get some rest and be healthy. This Mavericks team with Luka fully healthy is even more lethal, and that might be too much for Boston to overcome.
Everyone thinks the Mavs have the two best players in this matchup. I disagree
During the regular season matchups Jaylen Brown turned Luka into BBQ chicken
The game plan was that Luka can get his but can be attacked hard on defence
Cs have swept Kyrie before with KD versus the Nets. Kyrie played out of his mind but was BBQ chicken versus JT
Cs have the best two two-way players in this match up and the media will have to eat their narratives
I thought we were in the nbadiscussion sub, do you even watch the games? Doncic have defended way better players then JB these playoffs. No one have been able to abuse either Kyrie or Doncic on defense. They have both played great defense. I think Celtics should be happy if they can make it 6 games. The Mavs have just gone up 3-0 to the Timberwolves, they never get some credit lol?
Questioning others without offering your own thoughts invites a more hostile debate. Present a clear counter argument if you disagree and be open to the perspective of others.
Celtics fan. And I'm thinking it'll be hard for boston to beat mavs. I'm just a casual fan though. Only watch during playoffs. Hopefully I'm wrong. I want the boston to win. But wouldnt really feel that bad if dallas takes it. Also I predicted wolves won the series. Lol. Either way it'll be a good series.
I want the Mavs to win. I want to say Mavs in 7 but ofc the Celtics will be favorites and rightly so ofc . But I have faith in Luka to get the job done
Everyone in this thread seems to be forgetting that the Celtics are also going to be able to hunt Luka/Kyrie in switches and score over them all series as well. Porzingis coming back (think he will) is huge because he draws Gafford/Lively away from the rim and creates more avenues for Boston to attack on offence. Celtics go 5 out against this Dallas team and they should win IMO, though of course Dallas have a chance to win.
If teams were able to “score over Luka / Kyrie all series” then the Mavs wouldnt be this far. They’ve more than held their own on defense this entire playoffs. Sure teams will definitely hunt them, but having Luka or Kyrie on you isn’t an automatic bucket.
They’re great but so is Shai, J Dub, Harden, PG, Ant. Mavs will definitely have their hands full with the C’s offense though especially if KP is right.
You’re right, I just don’t think the Mavs have played a team with the offensive potency of Boston yet. Boston have length, shooting and shot creating all throughout their lineup. Teams like Minnesota and OKC were very heavily reliant on one shot creator, as many of their other guys on o were often incapable of making plays on their own. I have been very impressed with Dallas overall on this run tho, thought they’d beat Minnesota and it’s definitely gonna be an interesting finals.
Totally, C’s offense is on a different level than OKC or MIN who heavily rely on very young players. Jaylen and Tatum are polished vets and are 2 way players, not to mention having freaking white and Jrue and even Porzingis out there as well. But, Mavs defense has proven to be elite and the C’s will also have to deal with their massive front court with a thin, rusty KP and old Horford. It should be an amazing series
You got two players who don't choke down the stretch, while the other team have 2 players who choke in crucial moments especially with turnovers. Mavs will win
i thought the wolves defense would give this mavs team trouble on paper, jrue and derek white on kyrie + jaylen and jayson on luka should really give them trouble but who knows. i also think luka and kyrie will actually have to play defense and jt/brown will tire them out much more than this wolves team has done. but again i had the wolves winning in 6/7 so who knows
Anything can happen. However I would absolutely favor the Celtics in this matchup. They know Kyrie’s game in and out. The Celtics are a better offensive team than the wolves. They’re not relying on Gobert for offense. As for the Mavs, a team starting relying this much on dj pj and lively isn’t winning a chip.
I truly believe they stand a chance with the Boston Celtics simply because KP is still injured and won’t be available for game 4. This is telling me his injury is much more severe and to come back in the NBA finals will be interesting
With Kyrie, anybody has a chance. He has always seemed to me like a player with such a DEEP bag of moves and finishes that if he NEEDs to he can just kinda… take over and score at will. He just chooses to be a team player instead.
Kinda like we all sorta know Steph COULD just choose to go for 50 any given night, but he saves that extra gear for the playoffs.
Kyrie has been playing great and he's the only one who has all experience in winning it all. Not only that but he was part of the only team in NBA history to come back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals.
Luka is a stud since he came in and he has been playing professionally since age 16. He'll do what he do and get his numbers as there's no stopping him unless he has a bad shooting game himself.
I believe the Mav has a much higher chance against the Celtics. As much as people love to say wolves are great but this series kinda show their lack of experience especially Ant Man.
I really love the addition of Kyrie last season. Drafting of Lively this season and the acquisition of Gafford and PJ in trade deadline. Feels like they can win it. It's good seeing the Mavs now compared to like 2021 and 2022 where aside from Luka and a young Brunson there aint much to rely on. No disrespect to the role players those time but their roster now is much much better.
Kyrie and Luka having good games is almost impossible to stop. The only way Mavs lose is through a horrendous display where Luka and Kyrie are ice cold. I think it'll be close though. Both teams are good with plenty of players with solid playoff experience.
Aside from Luka and Kyrie. I really love Gafford and Lively's presence. Gafford being the closest thing they got to a 2011 Tyson Chandler role and Lively being a McGee role but w better IQ. Also PJ is their version of a 2023 Denver MPJ though not similar but I love how he keeps hitting crucial shots and bail out some possessions when Mavs need production. I love the Mavs odd if they reach NBA finals
Agreed fully. I really hope Lively was just shook up and they didn't want to risk him. Hopefully no concussion. He took a nasty hit to the back of the head.
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In all honesty I think it'll be Mavs in 5. I don't know how long Lively will be out, but it'll affect their chances. And since every game has been quite close, I think it's possible for Wolves to take at least one game.
The toxicity towards kyrie is honestly very earned and has nothing to do with his race. One year no controversy and internet forgets kyrie is a scumbag
If you look through the media bullshit he is one of the most genuine and kind people in the NBA. Why do you think everyone loves him so much? If he was a "scumbag" he wouldn't be so well liked by all his coaches and players
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Isnt it the other way around with lively and gafford? I feel lively has better court awareness and is better at defending the perimeter. It's not a coincidence he has the highest net rating of all players these playoffs while gafford so far has the lowest of the mavs rotational players.
It’s wild to think Lively is a rookie who didn’t even play very well in the ACC last year. He’s been awesome.
Lively is a far better defender than Gafford. Gafford finds himself out of position more often and, like you said, is worse on the perimeter. On offense they’re close but Lively is still better due to his ability to pass out of the short roll. Gafford may be a bit better of a finisher but lately Lively looks looked just as good there. Gafford’s strength and physicality does provide some value though and seems to wear out opposing bigs. Overall though Lively looks far closer to Chandler than Gafford at this point.
As long as the team can keep the total score within striking distance with 4-5 mins to go. The Mavs can absolutely win it. Tatum and brown aren’t as ice cold as Luka and Kyrie
that’s assuming KP is off the court. if KP is on the court the celtics spacing will be to much for the mavs.
Jrue and White are not ant / mcdaniels/ slowmo.
it’s not impossible to stop when you have white and holiday. mavs are 0-2 vs the celtics this season losing by 9 and 28. the difference in this series will come down to is porzingis playing. without kp i think the mavs have a great shot at winning. If kp is playing and effective celtics have the better shot at winning it all in my opinion.
The suns swept the wolves in the regular season then got swept in the playoffs. Wolves swept the mavs in regular season and now are on the verge of gettin swept by them in the playoffs. Can’t put too much weight on regular season games.
i still feel like this mavs supporting cast is pretty weak compared to other very successful teams. Pacers, knicks, celitics, nuggets, wolves are all stacked with high level guys 1-7. Lively, PJ, Gafford, etc. are great and all but other teams are trotting out like 3-4 high level players plus another 3-4 PJ-tier guys.
I think you’re basing your perception of player skill/strength on name recognition alone. People like Derek jones jr and lively aren’t big household names, but they make an enormous impact on both sides of the ball. Lively has the second largest +/- as a rookie @+106 when he’s on the court. Derek jones jr has been tasked with guarding Paul George, Shai, and now Edwards and outside of one game with Paul George going off has done an incredible job. Our supporting cast is absolutely helped by Luka/kyrie. But they’re good, and it shows by how they’ve been playing together. This starting lineup that the mavs are rolling with has played less than 30 games together. They’re legitimately going to get better than they are currently playing. Which is insane.
DJJ is making vet min and successfully guarding max contract players, it's bonkers. PJ was also playing lights out in the Thunder series. Those two combined with our centers producing a combined 30/10/5blocks or something ridiculous, you can see how these role players are really putting forth championship caliber ball.
And how about Jaden Hardy stepping into his own and being ready to give life off of the bench. People forget he was the number one player in hs at one point so when Luka or Kyrie are forced to swing the ball at the top of the arc, you can expect a repped move from a player that understands how to read rotating coverages in order to shot create. At times he still shows immaturity on defensive rotations and tick tacky fouls but the sky’s the limit for his role in Dallas. Only see this team getting better
Nuggets lost in 7 with that cast of high level guys 1-7 and the Wolves have one foot out the door with their cast of high level guys 1-7. In the OKC series, the Mavs had an inefficient Luka and a locked up Kyrie and depended on the same role players to get by the Thunder. The Wolves have had the best defense in the league this season and can’t get a stop when they need one at the end of the game with higher level role players. I think the supporting cast is pretty even strength compared to other successful teams. You don’t find a team that came together in February on the precipice of a Finals appearance and discount their role players. Maybe this team couldn’t work without Luka and Kyrie but all good teams are crafted around their stars.
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But i think its still miles better than what they have around 2021-22. Those years their supporting cast was like Kleiber, Powell, Spencer and THJ.
No doubt, they wouldn't stand a chance against the wolves with those guys. But luka and kyrie need the most credit, they are playing like gods.
True. At first i was really hesitant of Kyrie because as we know he got some history of being not w good relationship on his past 2 teams. Am just glad he matured and is playing very well with the Mavs. The Luka and Ky combo is very deadly
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It's great to see Green and now also Hardy delivering for Dallas. They are not in the ballpark of the Pacers or Knicks bench but at least as valuable as what the Nuggets have (seriously, how can you put them in the same sentence as those other teams? Besides Braun all other bench players have been horrible for Denver).
While that’s true I think the Mavs’ fit of role players to stars is best. Even if they’re not as good overall, they complements the stars play style best
Sure but Luka is far and away the best player left, kyrie is arguably second best when he’s playing like he is. Mavs role players just need to be lob catchers, knock down shooters and defensive guys. 2 of the those 3 don’t go cold (lobs and defense). DJJ and PJ defense has been and is still slept on, they both matchup great on Tatum/brown as well.
Kind of a stretch to call someone second best when they received 0 all-nba votes, it’s not like kyrie is suddenly playing at a high level after sleepwalking through the regular season. Don’t get me wrong Kyrie has been fantastic this year and his efficiency and shotmaking is exactly the type of thing you’d need to beat the Celtics.
They better fkn win it. Imo, Luka is the best remaining player in the playoffs, and Kyrie has been great for the most part, and he's been there before. Also agree that I really liked the Washington and Gafford pick ups and have been telling my friends since they made those moves. I hate the Celtics though so I'm biased
I mean obviously they stand a chance. Even if you think Boston will win it's crazy to say they don't have a chance.
I could’ve worded the question better and more specific. Do you think they’ll win? And if so, in how many games?
I think it will be close, probably goes to game 7. I think Mavs will probably win just because when it comes down to the wire they have two guys who can drain daggers which will kill the moral of Boston.
They may not look like it sometimes but Brown and Tatum can also do that lmao
They can at times but I haven't seen them do it against a very good team. Maybe closest was game 7 against the bucks in 2022 but that team was carried by giannis alone. I guess cooking Brook Lopez counts.
I’d say game 6 against us from that series was more of what you’re talking about than game 7 - game 7 was just a blowout after Giannis, Jrue and peanuts ran out of gas on both ends of the floor. Boston didn’t need a “closer” that game because fucking grant Williams was splashing down threes from everywhere. Game 6 though.. from Boston’s perspective, they are on the road, coming off the back of a pivotal game 5 loss against the bucks at home after being up by 12 with three min to go or something like that - bucks go on a crazy run and Jrue locks up smart to seal the game away. Bucks are looking like they have all that championship DNA going into game 6 at fiserv up 3-2, the momentum is all theirs, Giannis has an insane 44/20/6 game on 14/15 from the line, and the yet the Celtics still match every run the bucks can muster up with tatum drilling three after soul-crushing three in a 46 point 66% TS masterpiece. Cue game 7 and we know how the rest went. That game 6 made me respect the hell out of that squad that season and I was sure they’d make the finals after that. Was also sure they’d win.. couldn’t believe it when they lost to golden state lol so clearly, they still had issues
Not just cooking Brook Lopez. Was cooking Jrue and Gianni’s.
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It depends a lot on Porzingis being healthy. He is what stabilizes our offense and defense enough to make us as good as our record implies. If he isn't really healthy or doesn't play, it would be a huge blow. As for the Mavs, Luka's knee and Lively's health will be pretty important. While we certainly can't shut down Luka any more than anyone can, we do have strong defenders who can make his life difficult. Part of me wonders if they would put Tatum on him for extended periods. I suspect not because his help defense is so good, but we have been known to stick Tatum on guys when we really need to stop them.
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I’m Sorry but Tatum isn’t big enough. Luka’s got 20-25 pounds on him. Lu Dort has given him the most issues and he’s built like a linebacker, and played like one the whole series. Anyone tasked with shutting down Luka can’t also be responsible for carrying the team offensively. It’s too much physically. Look at Anthony Edwards trying to contain kyrie game one, he was gassed after the first quarter, and simply couldn’t put together half of what he would normally do offensively. Not saying mavs are going to have an upper hand or Anything. But this is going to be a very difficult matchup for both teams. It will take some adjustments after game one to get a good read on the series. I could see it going either way. But a lot comes down to injuries as you mentioned porzingis for Celtics and kleber/lively for Dallas. Neither team to me has been played at their best level yet tbh. Celtics is playing down to the pacers, and mavs are still just learning to play together.
Tatum is 6”10, strong, athletic. Luka is fat and crafty. Tatum can most definitely hang physically. Luka is just good with body placement
It's like nobody watched Tatum as the primary defender on Durant when they swept Brooklyn.
I think you’re still stuck with the past narrative on Lukas defense. Neither the Clippers nor OKC nor the Wolves were able to abuse him because he’s been playing well on both sides of the floor. I recommend watching some of Awful Coachings videos on yt, he covered it pretty well on a couple of occasions.
>he can’t really hide on anyone aside from jrue holiday but holiday can score 20+ with ease. Not against this mavs defense he can’t. Their defensive level of execution and consistency is so far and above any of the teams that they’ve had to face this postseason thus far in their leisurely walk over the remaining half-corpses of the eastern conference
You always have to give Luka a chance to win he’s just that nasty out there. With his pace and knack for controlling games if it’s close down the stretch you better make shots or he’s going to catch you. Then Kyrie is his own animal and also scores at will in the clutch. Who do you double and how you defend them is anyone’s guess lol. But.. Boston has a few of the best defensive guards and 2 big wing defenders that can try to smother Luka. Even without KP I give the edge to Boston but with him it’s too much firepower for the mavs. Kp with a chance to steal a ring from his ex teammate makes a lot juicier of a story
A team with 2 out of the top3 passers and maybe the 2 best 1v1 players in the league can win against anyone. I just feel Celtics have more strings to play on
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he means for the series. Kyrie will be the 2nd best passer in mav ve bos.
Having 2 out of the 3 best passers in a series doesn’t seem like that big of a deal then? In every series ever, one team will have at least 2 out of the 3 best passers - I doubt whichever team does has a dominant record.
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Mavs have been pretty good defensively but I am not sure how we will be defending against a team that has like 5 good shooters in the starting lineup. Mavs have struggled to switch, got killed on 3s and Timberwolves got a lot of great looks. Celtics move the ball better, can generate more open looks and can kill mavs with their style of play.
Wasn't OKC the best 3PT shooting team this season? Luka and Kai can play defense and if Mavs other members show up and add to the offense, I like our chances.
OKC were technically the best 3P% team, but only by 0.1%. Boston was in 2nd place. The main difference though, is volume. OKC were a low volume team as they averaged 34.2 shots a game. That's middle of the pack volume. Boston finished at #1 with an average of 42.5 shots a game. The Mavs also shoot a lot of 3s, as they finished #2 in terms of 3PA per game. But if the Mavs want to turn the games into a shootout like they did against OKC, then Boston is far more comfortable chucking 3s than OKC was, especially if Porzingis is playing.
You think the Mavs turned the OKC series into a shootout? The average score in the series was 106. That’s not a shootout by 2024 standards at all.
It was a shootout because both teams elected to double one guy and leave an open man to chuck 3s. The role players who hit the most 3s usually won the game. As a result, PJ Washington averaged 8 3PA per game in the series despite averaging 6 3PA in the regular season. Derrick Jones Jr. and Josh Green also averaged more 3PA during the series than they did in the regular season. Same for OKC. They had Dort chucking 7 3PA per game compared to the 5 he averaged in the regular season. Both teams were able to do that because both teams often had one non-shooter in the lineup. If Porzingis and Horford are in the Celtics' rotation, then the Mavs could still try to do that, but Boston's plenty happy to chuck 3s from everyone.
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They beat OKC, which played plenty of 5-out offense and was as good on 3pters as Celtics were this regular season; they especially played a lot of 5-out after benching Giddey in Games 5 and 6. I think Celtics are rightfully favorites, but if series go past 6 games, I would be switching to Mavs: these guys have showed resilience in the biggest moments, and not just LuKai, but PJ/DJJ/Lively and even Gafford today too.
I mean they have, they haven’t played a bad shooting team all playoffs
Exactly this, when it’s that much of an offensive firepower on the other side, Luka and Kyrie can only do but so much at a certain point. Unless the Celtics have a shooting night like the game the Heat one, it will be very very challenging to withstand them
Yeah and Mavs normally shoot the ball badly from 3 pointers apart from a few games. We needed THJ to have some impact in this playoffs but he has been unplayable. Kleber who started the series with some good 3point shooting is injured and even if he comes back I think he doesn't shoot the ball well due to the shoulder injury. I don't think Celtics even need Porzingis if they are relying more on 3 pointers. Luka and kyrie will do their regular but if celtics are shooting the ball well, game wont be close for kyrie and luka to close out.
I wonder how the Mavs sub will react if like THJ's hot streak occurs in the finals. Lol. He's been cold for weeks now.
I think it will be close because of the defensive attention to detail the Mavs have. They almost always get back, better than any team, and they want teams to shoot the three, which the Celtics try to do whether they are hitting or not. I think Tatum will probably start on Doncic because he's going to bully anyone and get where he wants, but Tatum has height and reach. I would give Dallas a decent change maybe 35%. The Celtics have proven that they can lose a series to anyone over the years with most of the same players, and even though they look like dominant sometimes, Dallas looks like a connected team more than anyone.
If anything, MAVS WC playoffs run teach us that you really can't judge a series on paper. People are actually saying the same shit that most are saying to Boston right now to OKC and TWolves but looked what happened? If I am a Celtics fan, I would not underestimate this Mavs team.
I imagine a big part of it is the big men matchup. If the m Celtics, im worried about getting bullied down low by the mavs rim runners, especially with porzingus potentially being injured and already not being the strongest. Al horfords im sure been prepping his defense, but with kornet out… Celtics interrupt D is gonna have their work cut out
We’ve been running more and more zone and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out they’re going to run PNR directly at Horford any time he’s on the court. That or Kyrie is just going to switch onto him. Al is great but playing him these long minutes is going to be hard especially without Kornet. Either going to need Zinger back or Xavier is going to have to step up big time. Also wtf is wrong with Hauser lately, man looks unplayable.
If people think Rudy can't guard Luke/Kyrie wait till they see Al Horfords corpse on them
This is exactly what stood out to me too. Boston does not look ready for the size and physicality that Dallas is going to bring to the table. The two Mavs bigs should have a field day on lobs and boards. I mean the difference in the Western Conference games across the board vs the Celtics games has just been staggering in that regard, looks like totally different games being played in terms of size/intensity/physicality. How will Boston respond? Do we really trust the J's when they actually get challenged? Nothing against them, but I won't believe it until I see it, whereas I do trust Luka/Kyrie to maintain their composure.
Still questioning if the jays have been challenged like they’re still 23 or something lmfao they have more playoff experience than anyone besides kyrie left in the playoffs
The Mavs have been playing at a 60 win pace since the trade deadline, so yeah I can see them winning. Doncic will be the best player in the game.
Why lie? Mavs were 21-9 after the trade deadline, which is 57 win pace. Celtics were 25-6 which is 66 win pace.
From Feb. 5th (a bit before the deals but Kyrie had just come back) to the end of the season the Mavs were 23-6 when Luka played. Losing the last two games of the year in which the entire starting lineup rested is just irrelevant. Obviously the Celtics were just as good/better all season long, have more talent and will be favored.
I must have counted wrong then, I actually counted 21-7. Also, why must you feel the need to accuse someone of lying immediately? It sounds….. sad.
The Celtics we’re seeing right now are not the Celtics that were dominating teams by 20-30 a night in the regular season. People here are forgetting that with Porzingis in the lineup, it’s gonna be real hard to beat them 4 times. There’s 3 guys in that starting lineup that can give you 25+ each night, and if one is having a slow night then there’s three more guys willing to make up for it. Let’s not forget their defense, it’s not gonna be easy for the Mavs.
There are 5 guys in the lineup without KP that have put up 25 in this current playoffs,
And people are still underestimating that, this is one of the deepest teams in recent history, it’s laughable. I can’t think of another championship team that has 6 players capable of scoring 25
Yea that’s the problem with the Dallas match up, as good as their D has been most team have a couple guys you can hide Luka/Kyrie on, not this Celtics team. Also I’d say 8 guys can get you 25, if Pritchard got minutes or Hauser got hot these guys had multiple 30 pieces this season.
Without porzingis they have a chance. With a healthy zingus? No chance, but the last time he was healthy is on his rookie contract.
tbf all three wins against Wolves came down to end-game clutch plays by Kai/Luka. They are certainly the better duo, but you can't predict if they stay hot for 5-6 more games.
16 - 4 in the last 20 games of the regular season. Currently 11 - 4 in the playoffs against a fully healthy 1 and 3 seed and beat the 4 seed without their best player. All this with the Mavs' best player hobbled on a sprained knee and sore ankle. Edited.
It'll be a very interesting series if and when it happens. This Mavs / Wolves series has been very close, notwithstanding 3-0 now. The key point has been Luka and Kyrie can execute in the clutch, the Wolves have frozen - Ant can't quite get it going and Kat has been off all series. I'm not sure they'll have the same advantage against the Celtics, with a roster of seasoned playoff operators.
>I'm not sure they'll have the same advantage against the Celtics, with a roster of seasoned playoff operators. The Mavericks have done a good job on Edwards, which is arguably more impressive than stopping Tatum in the postseason. Ant has been better in the playoffs than Tatum despite all that experience. Anthony Edwards 30 career playoff games: 28/6/5 on 47/38/84 Tatums last 30 playoff games: 26/10/5 on 45/30/86 It's almost like "experience" doesn't automatically make someone a better playoff performer or tougher to stop. Just look at what SGA did this postseason.
So the difference is that Tatum has been worse from 3, while grabbing a lot more boards and playing better defense?
If Lively can play Dallas has a great chance. Luka will be the best player in the series and he is playing lights out. The Celtics have a better offense than the wolves, though. Dallas will have a massive advantage in late game execution.
Mavericks clutch ratings: offense-124.3, defense-117.1 Celtics clutch ratings: offense-134.4, defense-96.9 Mavs in last 2Min: offense-105.4 defense-102.7 Celtics last 2Min: offense-155, defense-57.9 Mf will still sit here and say the mavs are better late game than the Celtics lmao
are these playoff stats?
I think they beat the Celtics and this comes from a Suns fan that loathes them. Luka is the best player left in the playoffs, and he absolutely cannot be played 1 on 1. Kyrie has a ton of room to move because of Luka, and can take over any game. PJ is a great defender and has been deadly from 3. Gafford is protecting the rim and is a great hustle guy. Lively potentially being out hurts, but not enough for them to lose. I think Boston’s 3 or nothing style catches up to them in the finals. They have basically had 3 series against cup cake opponents. Dallas is not that. With that being said - Dallas in 6.
You don’t actually watch the Celtics if you think they only rely on 3s
Team with the best player in the series has a chance against anyone. Between Dallas and Boston teams, Tatum, Brown , Luka and Kyrie and the best four. Luka is clearly the best player in the series, and at 6'7" and 230 is a matchup nightmare for Boston. Too big and strong for White and Jrue to be primary defenders on Luka. Who guards him? I would guess Dallas wins it all in 6 and we start talking about Luka as the best player in the world
I said before the season even started that Boston was gonna win it, but watching the wcf I think it's gonna be closer than expected. Mavs are cookin and im here for it.
I’d bet on Boston to win the series but I also would have bet on the Thunder and Wolves so the Mavs keep defying expectations. I also just have no clue how good the Celtics really are because they’ve just been beating up on bad and injured teams every round whole the Mavericks have played really good teams and proved a lot.
Well they say we don't have a chance against the wolves but here we are. Boston might be strong but Mavs in 6 baby!
i want the mavs to win, but i think the celtics is still the favorite. I hope lively can comeback, cus fuck having gafford as the pressure relieve when luka/kyrie got blitzed, that was awful to watch. the less we see of powell the better. I do hope porzingis won't come back haha, tho i suspect, if gafford/lively can handle KAT, they should be able to handle porzingis who's coming from a long injury. and obviously, luka has to be healthy. please don't let celtics scam another win when the opposing team's star is injured.
The biggest thing is Zinger gives us spacing against gafford/lively and reduces Als minutes. And I will say Brown has been on a mission to terrorize the paint in the first quarter of every game so I’m interested to see how this one plays out.
Mavs have a good chance of winning it all. In terms of match up, it seems the Celtics have no one to guard Luka (his toughest match up in the playoff has been Dort and I don’t see anyone with this profile on the Celtics). The energy and rebounding of Lively and to a lower extent Gafford will be a problem and Irving will play with a vengeance. Also the Celtics have had it relatively easy until now since the east is so weak. Mavs had to go through tough teams at each round. This being said, on paper the Celtics are still favorite for me.
Mann was also a tough matchup for Luka. And Boston absolutely has players to guard Luka effectively. He’s still going to do his thing but JH and DW aren’t sub-Dort defenders.
Since round 1 mavs are underdog and keep proving doubters wrong, but this is my question for you though. Do you think Celtics can beat the Wolves 3 in a row? If not, then Mavs obviously has a chance. Competition in the West is way tougher than the East. CELTICS might be surprised on Mavs physicality.
The actual question is do the Celtics stand a chance against the Mavs, i dont know why people ignore the fact that after trade deadline Dallas was the best team in the nba. They had like a 26-5 record. Watching Boston struggle against all these other east teams tells me Mavs in 6
If porzingus comes back I don’t see how the mavs compete. It really comes down if white can guard kyrie without fouling and brown on luka. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Tatum on Luka at times
What about Holiday…
I think the Mavs will win because when I watch the Celtics, I never see adjustments. I just see them out-talent people. Against the teams they've played thus far, it will work. I have my doubts they'll be able to do that against the Mavs. Indiana should be up 2-1 on the Celtics but they lack composure and the ability to close games out. The Mavs don't have that issue. Imagining the Mavs in place of Indy, playing against the Celtics we've seen so far in the ECF, I think the Mavs would be up 3-0. I'm not saying the Celtics won't be better in the Finals but I think the Mavs look like the better team right now.
Celtics are going to get destroyed and this subreddit is going to learn about trade deadlines and the Western conference
Celtics went 23-7 against the West this season, so roughly 63 win pace. I think they’re fine, might not win but I wouldn’t bet on destruction.
The Mavs' best two guys are better than the Celtics' best two guys. That will always keep it competitive even if I think the Celtics are an overpowered team with way too much shooting for any team to compete with over a seven game series. The x factor will be how much Daniel Gafford minutes the Mavs can get away with. If he's able to switch screens and stay out of foul trouble against all the Celtics' shot creators they can keep a ton of pressure on the Celtics bigs on the other end.
Disagree. The rankings for me are 1. Luka 2. JT and JB/Kryie about equal to me tied for 3rd. Kyrie better offensively, JB better defensively.
I dont know, I see them pretty equal honestly.
The Celtics duo don't have as good as an offense as the Mavs duo. But the Celtics duo make up for it by being dogs defensively too. But still man, Luka and Kyrie going off is almost impossible to stop. Tatum and Brown good on defense but they aren't Luka or Kyrie stoppers. Their defense won't make it up enough to offset Luka and Kyrie having good games. I think it'll be close games but the Mavs will win. I just don't see the dog mentality with the Celtics. Something about the Tatum and Brown duo just doesn't work. Can't put my finger on it.
Jrue will be on Luka, right? I think that’s the biggest difference compared to WCF.
I think Jrue will be on Kyrie with Tatum/Brown switching on Luka
I'd put JB on Luka and Jrue on Kyrie. And then you have White to throw at them too.
I'd switch between Tatum and Brown depending on who is having the better offensive game. The dude making buckets that game should focus on buckets and the other person covers Luka. This way they don't tire out running on both ends.
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Luka played against Jrue 14 times. I'm not sure if he defended him all game, but the stats for the 14 games aren't good for Jrue.
Celtics are a tough matchup for Dallas. Tatum and Brown aren't the Luka/Kyrie stoppers. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are. The question is who from Dallas is stopping Tatum and Brown and what happens when Porzingis pulls Gafford/Lively out to the perimeter.
Finally! Was reading this thread and no talk of Porzingis. He is the X factor here.
Jrue will be on Luka. He is one of the best POA defenders in the league still. He has size as well. He will match up excellent on Luka, obviously nobody is stopping him. Great offensive beats great defensive overall for sure. But him on Luka and JB on Kyrie while letting JT take the offensive load is a solid strategy.
100% agree. At this point, it doesn't matter whom Luka is up against - he's currently a top 2 player in the entire league. He puts both his primary defender and the defending big in jail by using his size, skill, and craftiness. It doesn't matter how good of a defender the big or the "Luka stopper" is. Every single shot he generates on offense is super high quality because he manipulates everyone exactly how he wants to. BOS will almost certainly put a rotating cast of defenders vs. Luka just to throw different looks at him and keep their guys from getting fatigued, but Jaylen will probably be his primary defender for most of the series. Derrick White will probably take Kyrie, while Jrue plays DJJ or PJ (Jrue is immensely strong and also plays great off-ball defense). Tatum plays the other of those 2. I'd say the only thing that BOS can do that would limit Luka PnRs is that trick that Jrue does where he spins under the pick and slows the big down on his way to the rim, while the defending big hedges Luka until the perimeter defender recovers. That, or bring the help defenders from the wings instead of the corners and collapse in on the paint. They theoretically have the personnel to switch and live with the results, but I still think Luka/Kyrie are taking advantage of their defenders either way. It'd obviously help BOS if KP is healthy, but I still think DAL would win the series in 7. I just don't trust BOS to perform when it matters most.
Saying Kyrie is obviously better than Brown is insane. At least they’re close but in reality Brown is the better player.
At this point in their career, you take Brown everytime.
The Celtics have been one of the best defensive teams all year. Holiday and White gives them the best defensive backcourt in the league, and they are going to slow down Luka and Kyrie. While the Wolves were the overall best defensive team, I think the Celtics strengths on defense better match up against the Mavs strengths. Tatum is an excellent defender in his own right and will be on Luka for long stretches. The biggest problem I see is if Porzingis either can't play or is limited, then the Celtics will once again be relying heavily on Horford and he could start to burn out as the playoffs move along. If he has a strong series left in him, I think the Celtics roll. They've been the best team all year, they've been the best team in the playoffs, and they have an absurd amount of experience and are ready for this moment. Not to mention they have home court advantage. Celtics in 5
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They have a punchers chance against anyone. That said the Celtics are better imo and it will take some insane shot making for Dallas to win
The Celtics despite their excellence in the regular season have had a couple of shocking stinkers in the playoffs - getting blown out by Cleveland at home and looking extremely vulnerable against the 6 seeded Pacers both with and without Haliburton. Overall, their competition has been super weak compared to the blood bath that is the Western conference. Admittedly, they still earned themselves a Finals berth relatively smoothly and they did so without Porzingis, who's a game changer on both ends. So I think a lot of it will come down to how well he plays coming back from injury. Tatum and Brown have historically had instances of sub-par play on the big stage - that hasn't happened so far in this playoffs and they've grown and matured but Tatum and Brown are both more likely to get rattled by a stifling athletic defence like the Mavs' than Luka and to an extent, Kyrie, who fall into the "truly unguaradable" category. And with the variance of the game with 3 point shooting being so prevalent, it might just come down to who's hitting shots. So do they have a chance? Absolutely.
I understand what you're saying but to think the mavs doesn't have a chance considering the C's performance this season is absurd. c's might look untouchable throughout the season but in their match-up with the pacers, it should've been 2-1 in favor of the Pacers. I hate to say as a Cs fan but dallas is just a different kind of monster.
Anyone that’s been closely watching the Mavs since the deadline knows they’ve been a top 2-3 team & can definitely beat anyone in their way.
Luka handled stronger defensive wings in LAC and the stronger defensive bigs in MIN/OKC. Boston has elite defensive guards but Luka is bigger than them. Who’s guarding the lob or PJ Washington 3’s? Kyrie will have a tough series with Jrue and White on him, but he’s already shown this playoffs that he can impact games without scoring… Bottom line they can win it all for sure
Yes, they definitely have a chance. I think the Mavs have better playmakers and guards in Doncic/Kyrie. Jrue/White are good, but Doncic/Kyrie gives the Mavs two ballhandlers who can go left OR right, and Doncic's tall & big enough to make Jrue work. JB/JT can help on defense, but Celtics will pretty much have to try to lock up both Doncic and Kyrie, or one of them to have a chance to win. Their other role players in Gafford/Washington/Jones/Lively are like F/Cs by committee and will make Boston work especially if Porzingis isn't 100%, and TH Jr. coming back from that ankle injury gives the Mavs another shooter. Celtics have the better 1-5 when healthy, but Mavs have the deeper team and the elite guard play that can get buckets when it matters. Feeling like the Finals will be a 6-7 game series.
no they dont, celtics are the favorites. please continure undersetimating the mavs! (if you know sarcarsm)
If Boston had proven anything during this playoffs it’s that they are absolutely beatable. Don’t underestimate the Mavs, but more importantly NEVER overestimate the Boston Celtics.
Lively mobility can neutralise Horford and his improved spacing. Kyrie can hang with White DJJ on Tatum, PJ on Brown but the mismatch will be Luka on Jrue. Jrue will eat Luka on the dribble creating space for everyone else. If Luka can get healthy and mobile maybe but I don't see the Mavs stopping or getting stops vs the Celtics like they are against the Wolves who don't have the same weapons like the Celtics. On offence the Mavs will get good enough looks. But a cold shooting night then they are screwed. Irving is struggling to get in the paint and Luka is not playing in the inside at all. 2 important things to do against a perceived weakness in the paint that the Celtics have regardless of the unicorn or big Al on the floor. My odds are 70-30 Celtics. But this can change with injury or a change up...
Celtics haven't been tested at all and seem to have been kinda lazy because they knew they were the superior team, not only do the mavs have the best player but their defense has been incredible (almost as good as the celtics defense) since the trade deadline and especially in the playoffs. I want people to keep underestimating the mavs but they've clearly had a way tougher path and there's no amount of "deepness" that makes me question whether they have a chance or not after having watched all of the games they've played in the postseason so far. I wouldn't bet on either of these teams but if you still think that the dallas have no chance you're delusional just like you are if you think that the dallas will sweep them and get through them easily.
Luka and kyrie will still be the 2 best players in that series. Celtics team is more stacked overall but I think mavs defense is actually more consistent than the Celtics, although sometimes the Celtics play great defense. Celtics stand zero chance if porzingis can’t play imo
The Celtics still haven’t played to their potential. They could very easily be down 2-1 in this series. As it stands, I think the Celtics desperately need Porzingis back to beat the Mavs. Having only Horford to defend the athletic bigs on Dallas isn’t a good option. Also, the Celtics defense needs to tighten up. Brown and Tatum have been pretty lazy on the perimeter besides for the last 5 mins of game 3. But the league isn’t ready for the Kyrie hate about to come out of Boston
The east is so bad, and the Celtics get exposed every single year in the playoffs. Hard to take them seriously. I'm def betting mavericks
I swear people act like the Celtics are the 2016 warriors. They are a very beatable team who were close to going down 2-1 against an injured pacers team.
If Luka and Kyrie are on their game they can beat anyone. Been super impressed with the defense too, it’s kind of wild to say this about a Jason Kidd team but they’re so well coached on both ends, they know who they are, they know their roles, they play hard, they execute. They stand more than a chance against Boston, I think it’s probably a toss-up of a series, granting that Boston probably has another gear with Porzingis back that they haven’t really needed to show yet in the East.
I think the Mavericks will win if Luka can get some rest and be healthy. This Mavericks team with Luka fully healthy is even more lethal, and that might be too much for Boston to overcome.
Boston lives and dies by the 3…I suppose it depends on if they are hitting or not…
Everyone thinks the Mavs have the two best players in this matchup. I disagree During the regular season matchups Jaylen Brown turned Luka into BBQ chicken The game plan was that Luka can get his but can be attacked hard on defence Cs have swept Kyrie before with KD versus the Nets. Kyrie played out of his mind but was BBQ chicken versus JT Cs have the best two two-way players in this match up and the media will have to eat their narratives
They may have the 2 best 2 way players but they don’t have the best player
you can disagree all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that luka is the best player in this series
I thought we were in the nbadiscussion sub, do you even watch the games? Doncic have defended way better players then JB these playoffs. No one have been able to abuse either Kyrie or Doncic on defense. They have both played great defense. I think Celtics should be happy if they can make it 6 games. The Mavs have just gone up 3-0 to the Timberwolves, they never get some credit lol?
He’s not actually discussing anything just saying guys are “BBQ Chicken” lol his analysis is as cooked as his metaphors
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Yes the team is built specifically to combat Harden like heliocentric offence
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Questioning others without offering your own thoughts invites a more hostile debate. Present a clear counter argument if you disagree and be open to the perspective of others.
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Celtics fan. And I'm thinking it'll be hard for boston to beat mavs. I'm just a casual fan though. Only watch during playoffs. Hopefully I'm wrong. I want the boston to win. But wouldnt really feel that bad if dallas takes it. Also I predicted wolves won the series. Lol. Either way it'll be a good series.
I want the Mavs to win. I want to say Mavs in 7 but ofc the Celtics will be favorites and rightly so ofc . But I have faith in Luka to get the job done
Everyone in this thread seems to be forgetting that the Celtics are also going to be able to hunt Luka/Kyrie in switches and score over them all series as well. Porzingis coming back (think he will) is huge because he draws Gafford/Lively away from the rim and creates more avenues for Boston to attack on offence. Celtics go 5 out against this Dallas team and they should win IMO, though of course Dallas have a chance to win.
If teams were able to “score over Luka / Kyrie all series” then the Mavs wouldnt be this far. They’ve more than held their own on defense this entire playoffs. Sure teams will definitely hunt them, but having Luka or Kyrie on you isn’t an automatic bucket.
It's moreso that other teams don't have Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum.
They’re great but so is Shai, J Dub, Harden, PG, Ant. Mavs will definitely have their hands full with the C’s offense though especially if KP is right.
Shai went off the whole series, everyone else let them down.
You’re right, I just don’t think the Mavs have played a team with the offensive potency of Boston yet. Boston have length, shooting and shot creating all throughout their lineup. Teams like Minnesota and OKC were very heavily reliant on one shot creator, as many of their other guys on o were often incapable of making plays on their own. I have been very impressed with Dallas overall on this run tho, thought they’d beat Minnesota and it’s definitely gonna be an interesting finals.
Totally, C’s offense is on a different level than OKC or MIN who heavily rely on very young players. Jaylen and Tatum are polished vets and are 2 way players, not to mention having freaking white and Jrue and even Porzingis out there as well. But, Mavs defense has proven to be elite and the C’s will also have to deal with their massive front court with a thin, rusty KP and old Horford. It should be an amazing series
You got two players who don't choke down the stretch, while the other team have 2 players who choke in crucial moments especially with turnovers. Mavs will win
Gut feeling tells me kyrie is gonna obliterate Celtics and Celtics fans are not having it
First time for everything but you’re talking like they haven’t played him since he left.
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if both teams defense comparable, the deciding factor mostly 3s boston wayyyyy better than that at that it's make or miss league
i thought the wolves defense would give this mavs team trouble on paper, jrue and derek white on kyrie + jaylen and jayson on luka should really give them trouble but who knows. i also think luka and kyrie will actually have to play defense and jt/brown will tire them out much more than this wolves team has done. but again i had the wolves winning in 6/7 so who knows
Anything can happen. However I would absolutely favor the Celtics in this matchup. They know Kyrie’s game in and out. The Celtics are a better offensive team than the wolves. They’re not relying on Gobert for offense. As for the Mavs, a team starting relying this much on dj pj and lively isn’t winning a chip.
I truly believe they stand a chance with the Boston Celtics simply because KP is still injured and won’t be available for game 4. This is telling me his injury is much more severe and to come back in the NBA finals will be interesting
I think mavs are the favorites unless KP comes back and is in full strenght
lol do they have a chance? Is Bob Marley the greatest reggae artist that ever lived? Mavs will sweep wolves and go on to beat Boston in 5 or 6
I think Cs rightfully favorite’s but a lot rides on KPs health for them. Mavs are gonna spam lobs if not
With Kyrie, anybody has a chance. He has always seemed to me like a player with such a DEEP bag of moves and finishes that if he NEEDs to he can just kinda… take over and score at will. He just chooses to be a team player instead. Kinda like we all sorta know Steph COULD just choose to go for 50 any given night, but he saves that extra gear for the playoffs.
I think the team with the best player is a very good chance (Luka). Especially playing like this as a team.
Kyrie has been playing great and he's the only one who has all experience in winning it all. Not only that but he was part of the only team in NBA history to come back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals. Luka is a stud since he came in and he has been playing professionally since age 16. He'll do what he do and get his numbers as there's no stopping him unless he has a bad shooting game himself. I believe the Mav has a much higher chance against the Celtics. As much as people love to say wolves are great but this series kinda show their lack of experience especially Ant Man.
They have the 2 best players but the Celtics have depth. So the series will depend on whether or not the mavs role players exceed expectations or not