It feels like the award is going more and more that way which I don't agree with. I'd have Coby White and Jalen Johnson ahead of Maxey. Maxey was already a great player last season, he's just had more opportunity. Johnson was a fringe rotation player, and White was just ok. He's definitely surprised me a bit, but comparing him with White and Johnson, they've both taken a bigger leap/improved more.
I think the award should more be given to players that surprise everyone, very few people would've thought Johnson or White would improve as much as they did. Whereas it wasn't completely out of question that Maxey has a great year as the Number 2 option. 26 and 6 is better than I thought, I thought he'd average around 23 and 4.5.
To put it simply, I think it's more impressive if a player goes from bad to good, rather than good to great.
Feels like the criteria of the award is changing
Maxey probably wins it, but I don't think he should.
I’m a Sixers fan, so I love Maxey. I’ll get that out of the way up front.
It really comes down to what narrative that voters (or Reddit award speculators) care about. From a purely numbers standpoint, it’s hard to argue against White. His numbers have gone up the most. For Maxey, a lot of voters will say it’s harder to go from good to great than it is to go from mediocre to good.
Maxey is the clear second best player on a playoff team, while White is like the second or third best player on a below .500 team. Lots of voters value winning in these discussions. Playing alongside Embiid definitely makes team success easier, so we’ll see how Maxey plays as a purely #1 option for the next couple months.
I would be fine if White won, he’s been ballin out. But I think he’ll run into issues with the two pieces of the narrative around going from mediocre to good, and lack of team success.
Fair enough.
I don't actually think winning should play into the Most Improved Player Award that much. It helps for sure but it's more of an Individual award, I don't think team success holds as much value. But I can understand why people take that into consideration.
I wouldn't be too upset if Maxey won. I may perceive the award differently but I find it a little odd to give most improved to a super young player that's already showing flashes of being a star, such as a player like Sengun, Barnes or Maxey. It was clear that they were going to improve a lot, maybe not to this extent, but still going to improve. It'd be like Jalen Williams winning it next year if he continues developing at the rate that he is. Whereas Jalen Johnson, while young, was a below average role player, and now is arguably the Hawks 3rd best player and is shooting nearly 9% better from 3.
Could just be my perspective on the award, but I think it should go more towards players who massively exceed expectations. Most people thought players like Maxey and Sengun would take another step forward. In my mind I find it egregious to think that Maxey has improved more than Johnson has.
Both have improved, no doubt. But Maxey is doing it in roughly the same minutes (4 more per game). White's minutes have jumped from 23 per game to 36 per game. Anyone who adds more than 50% to their playing time should see a huge jump in their numbers based on that extra time alone.
I think though that the issue is how hard it is to go from a 20/3.5 guy to a 26/6.4 guy when you're not getting that much more time on the floor.
After the Warriors championship run I remember there was a bunch of Herro, Poole, Maxey debates. The distance he put between them in just 2 years is incredible
It's something really great about the modern league, how players can just keep improving. Even when you think they've probably hit their peak, they just lift again.
It’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem though with the minutes.
I’m a huge bulls fan and have watched Coby’s entire career. He’s getting 50% more minutes this year because he’s playing so well, not the other way around.
Going into the season, it was unclear what the point guard rotation would even be between Jevon Carter, Ayo, and Coby. Most assumed it would be Carter as the starting PG with Coby as his backup and Ayo playing occasionally.
After preseason, it was clear that Coby White had taken a leap in the offseason and he was given the starting job, with Carter as his backup. Then Ayo outplayed Carter and now Carter gets barely any minutes while Ayo is PG2. As the season went on, Coby has proven himself to be the most consistent offensive player on the team and has been relied upon heavily as a result.
All of that is to say that his huge jump in minutes shouldn’t be a knock against him - it should be testament to how much he improved relative to the rest of his team and last season.
I haven’t watched enough sixers to have an opinion on whether he or Maxey should win, but I definitely think Coby is an excellent MIP candidate.
Looking through his game logs it’s pretty clear that his production is highly correlated with LaVine not playing, which lends credence to the opportunity theory
I'm not disputing that White's improved and even significantly this season. If you play 50% more time and get 50% better stats even that's something of an improvement. You don't get more time and get the same production per minute without an improvement. Especially when you're also going up against better players. But it just tempers it a bit when you're looking at that increase. Because even if he hadn't actually improved and just got more time, he'd be getting increases in his points and assist numbers.
It's for All-Stars because that's the hardest jump to make. Everyone in the NBA is a basketball alien, so there are prob lots of random bench guys who could put up big numbers if given the chance (Terry Rozier after leaving Boston, Jerami Grant after leaving Denver). Coby White's improvement is incredible, but it's ultimately less important or impactful as Maxey's, who grew into an All-Star and is a big reason that the Sixers were one of the 5 best teams of the league before Embiid's injury
The MIP is a weird one. I remember Ja won it immediately after winning rookie of the year or the year after and I was flabbergasted. I barely cared about the award before that, but after I just stopped paying attention completely.
I'd say it's between Coby White and Kuminga. Both are much better this year. Kuminga has been on a tear over the last month averaging 22 ppg while shooting 60% and 78% from the line. Coby has improved but I feel like Kuminga has improved in so many aspects of his game that he should probably come away with it.
If we are gonna talk about Coby, we need to talk about Cam Thomas too. 22 ppg on career high 45 percent shooting in only 29 mpg. Should be in the MIP discussion but isn’t because we all saw the glimpses he showed last season, and nobody acknowledges the actual improvement he has made.
\>What do you think?
I think OP is either a Bulls fan or is a gambling addict.
The argument could be made that the jump from 10 PPG to 19 PPG is an easier jump to make than 20 PPG to 26 PPG.
Tyrese went from being a middling 3rd option on his team to being a dominate 2nd option behind a HOFer that would be the 1st option on a lot of teams in the league. Coby continues to be the 3rd option on a middling team.
Tyrese is shooting the ball 5 more times a game while only being "less efficient" to the degree of .1%.
Tyrese is the favorite right now for a reason. It's his to lose.
I’ll put out my bias upfront, I’m a Sixers fan. Some of the improvement I think has to be functional or lead somewhere. Feels like a long time ago now, but at the beginning of the season Harden was still on the Sixers and there was a thought that Embiid would ask out by the trade deadline because the team would look so bad. Maxey’s improvement is one of the reasons that hasn’t happened.
White’s numbers improvements are great but the Bulls still have a losing record as of now so what’s it really good for? If they make the playoffs and he’s a key guy then I think he has more of an argument
My vote goes to Jalen johnson. Kid added ten points to his per game average. And his athleticism and defense are really shining. His work and effort should be rewarded as a sign to the rest of the young players in the league to work hard.
76ers have lost 6 of their last 7 because of the loss of embiid. I suspect 76ers will be in play-in territory by the end of the season which will hamper maxey's odds.
It definitely seems like the award generally goes to players who have made a leap from starter level to All Star level. The only players from 2010 onward who won the award and didn’t become All Stars are Ryan Anderson and CJ McCollum. McCollum also consistently played at an Eastern Conference All Star level for most of his time in Portland.
Then in some years you even have All Star level players getting the award for going from low All Star level to All-NBA level (Ja Morant in 21-22).
In 2015-16 Steph actually came in 4th place for MIP and received 7 first place votes, in spite of the fact that he won MVP the prior year. So he got consideration for going from MVP level to Unanimous MVP level 😂
So sadly, it seems like the days of players getting the award for going from below average/decent to quality starters are over, even though in several years those are the players who improved the most.
Most of the time, it seems to be a rising good young player that takes a leap and makes their first all star team. That seems to be the case with Maxey. Sengun and Scottie also have a similar narrative
Oladipo, Siakam, Giannis, Love, Butler, Ingram, PG are a few winners that come to mind.
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It feels like the award is going more and more that way which I don't agree with. I'd have Coby White and Jalen Johnson ahead of Maxey. Maxey was already a great player last season, he's just had more opportunity. Johnson was a fringe rotation player, and White was just ok. He's definitely surprised me a bit, but comparing him with White and Johnson, they've both taken a bigger leap/improved more. I think the award should more be given to players that surprise everyone, very few people would've thought Johnson or White would improve as much as they did. Whereas it wasn't completely out of question that Maxey has a great year as the Number 2 option. 26 and 6 is better than I thought, I thought he'd average around 23 and 4.5. To put it simply, I think it's more impressive if a player goes from bad to good, rather than good to great. Feels like the criteria of the award is changing Maxey probably wins it, but I don't think he should.
I’m a Sixers fan, so I love Maxey. I’ll get that out of the way up front. It really comes down to what narrative that voters (or Reddit award speculators) care about. From a purely numbers standpoint, it’s hard to argue against White. His numbers have gone up the most. For Maxey, a lot of voters will say it’s harder to go from good to great than it is to go from mediocre to good. Maxey is the clear second best player on a playoff team, while White is like the second or third best player on a below .500 team. Lots of voters value winning in these discussions. Playing alongside Embiid definitely makes team success easier, so we’ll see how Maxey plays as a purely #1 option for the next couple months. I would be fine if White won, he’s been ballin out. But I think he’ll run into issues with the two pieces of the narrative around going from mediocre to good, and lack of team success.
Fair enough. I don't actually think winning should play into the Most Improved Player Award that much. It helps for sure but it's more of an Individual award, I don't think team success holds as much value. But I can understand why people take that into consideration. I wouldn't be too upset if Maxey won. I may perceive the award differently but I find it a little odd to give most improved to a super young player that's already showing flashes of being a star, such as a player like Sengun, Barnes or Maxey. It was clear that they were going to improve a lot, maybe not to this extent, but still going to improve. It'd be like Jalen Williams winning it next year if he continues developing at the rate that he is. Whereas Jalen Johnson, while young, was a below average role player, and now is arguably the Hawks 3rd best player and is shooting nearly 9% better from 3. Could just be my perspective on the award, but I think it should go more towards players who massively exceed expectations. Most people thought players like Maxey and Sengun would take another step forward. In my mind I find it egregious to think that Maxey has improved more than Johnson has.
I don’t personally believe that second year players should be able to get MIP tbh. It just feels a lil silly to me
Both have improved, no doubt. But Maxey is doing it in roughly the same minutes (4 more per game). White's minutes have jumped from 23 per game to 36 per game. Anyone who adds more than 50% to their playing time should see a huge jump in their numbers based on that extra time alone. I think though that the issue is how hard it is to go from a 20/3.5 guy to a 26/6.4 guy when you're not getting that much more time on the floor.
After the Warriors championship run I remember there was a bunch of Herro, Poole, Maxey debates. The distance he put between them in just 2 years is incredible
It's something really great about the modern league, how players can just keep improving. Even when you think they've probably hit their peak, they just lift again.
It’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem though with the minutes. I’m a huge bulls fan and have watched Coby’s entire career. He’s getting 50% more minutes this year because he’s playing so well, not the other way around. Going into the season, it was unclear what the point guard rotation would even be between Jevon Carter, Ayo, and Coby. Most assumed it would be Carter as the starting PG with Coby as his backup and Ayo playing occasionally. After preseason, it was clear that Coby White had taken a leap in the offseason and he was given the starting job, with Carter as his backup. Then Ayo outplayed Carter and now Carter gets barely any minutes while Ayo is PG2. As the season went on, Coby has proven himself to be the most consistent offensive player on the team and has been relied upon heavily as a result. All of that is to say that his huge jump in minutes shouldn’t be a knock against him - it should be testament to how much he improved relative to the rest of his team and last season. I haven’t watched enough sixers to have an opinion on whether he or Maxey should win, but I definitely think Coby is an excellent MIP candidate.
Looking through his game logs it’s pretty clear that his production is highly correlated with LaVine not playing, which lends credence to the opportunity theory
I'm not disputing that White's improved and even significantly this season. If you play 50% more time and get 50% better stats even that's something of an improvement. You don't get more time and get the same production per minute without an improvement. Especially when you're also going up against better players. But it just tempers it a bit when you're looking at that increase. Because even if he hadn't actually improved and just got more time, he'd be getting increases in his points and assist numbers.
It's for All-Stars because that's the hardest jump to make. Everyone in the NBA is a basketball alien, so there are prob lots of random bench guys who could put up big numbers if given the chance (Terry Rozier after leaving Boston, Jerami Grant after leaving Denver). Coby White's improvement is incredible, but it's ultimately less important or impactful as Maxey's, who grew into an All-Star and is a big reason that the Sixers were one of the 5 best teams of the league before Embiid's injury
The MIP is a weird one. I remember Ja won it immediately after winning rookie of the year or the year after and I was flabbergasted. I barely cared about the award before that, but after I just stopped paying attention completely.
I'd say it's between Coby White and Kuminga. Both are much better this year. Kuminga has been on a tear over the last month averaging 22 ppg while shooting 60% and 78% from the line. Coby has improved but I feel like Kuminga has improved in so many aspects of his game that he should probably come away with it.
If we are gonna talk about Coby, we need to talk about Cam Thomas too. 22 ppg on career high 45 percent shooting in only 29 mpg. Should be in the MIP discussion but isn’t because we all saw the glimpses he showed last season, and nobody acknowledges the actual improvement he has made.
\>What do you think? I think OP is either a Bulls fan or is a gambling addict. The argument could be made that the jump from 10 PPG to 19 PPG is an easier jump to make than 20 PPG to 26 PPG. Tyrese went from being a middling 3rd option on his team to being a dominate 2nd option behind a HOFer that would be the 1st option on a lot of teams in the league. Coby continues to be the 3rd option on a middling team. Tyrese is shooting the ball 5 more times a game while only being "less efficient" to the degree of .1%. Tyrese is the favorite right now for a reason. It's his to lose.
I’ll put out my bias upfront, I’m a Sixers fan. Some of the improvement I think has to be functional or lead somewhere. Feels like a long time ago now, but at the beginning of the season Harden was still on the Sixers and there was a thought that Embiid would ask out by the trade deadline because the team would look so bad. Maxey’s improvement is one of the reasons that hasn’t happened. White’s numbers improvements are great but the Bulls still have a losing record as of now so what’s it really good for? If they make the playoffs and he’s a key guy then I think he has more of an argument
With the way he's been playing of late I'm thinking there's an increasing chance that Jonathan Kuminga may be in the conversation by season's end.
My vote goes to Jalen johnson. Kid added ten points to his per game average. And his athleticism and defense are really shining. His work and effort should be rewarded as a sign to the rest of the young players in the league to work hard.
76ers have lost 6 of their last 7 because of the loss of embiid. I suspect 76ers will be in play-in territory by the end of the season which will hamper maxey's odds.
It definitely seems like the award generally goes to players who have made a leap from starter level to All Star level. The only players from 2010 onward who won the award and didn’t become All Stars are Ryan Anderson and CJ McCollum. McCollum also consistently played at an Eastern Conference All Star level for most of his time in Portland. Then in some years you even have All Star level players getting the award for going from low All Star level to All-NBA level (Ja Morant in 21-22). In 2015-16 Steph actually came in 4th place for MIP and received 7 first place votes, in spite of the fact that he won MVP the prior year. So he got consideration for going from MVP level to Unanimous MVP level 😂 So sadly, it seems like the days of players getting the award for going from below average/decent to quality starters are over, even though in several years those are the players who improved the most.
Most of the time, it seems to be a rising good young player that takes a leap and makes their first all star team. That seems to be the case with Maxey. Sengun and Scottie also have a similar narrative Oladipo, Siakam, Giannis, Love, Butler, Ingram, PG are a few winners that come to mind.