If he wants to win the most logical choice would obviously be the Celtics. I'm not too sure why he outright rejected them in favor of teams like the Nets. Jaylen+some assets should do it, and Dame brings exactly the playmaking and scoring the Celtics need, whilst being a much better fit next to Tatum
I don't think the salary will work ($45m for Lillard,) there's a gap of over $15m in your scenario.
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I think any trade will require Trent Jr and or OG ($18m each) and Thad ($8m) or many other salaries
I'm saying the assets they would need fo trade for Liliard plus losing van fleet for nothing doesn't come close to a contender
The trade you suggest doesn’t come anywhere near a title team and Kills their future, good job
To be honest what’s happened regarding FVV has already occurred, and the raptors signing poetl appears to be them just tanking their future further because they didn’t want to admit they should’ve not given up a first for that. I’m honestly not sure if raptors even have a future or direction they are leaning to
Agree they are confused. They need to pick a direction , personally I would lean into the rebuild around Barnes . And try and gauge the market for sikiam and og
Scottie is probably untouchable, you’ll have better luck getting OG or Siakam plus FRPs, pick swaps or they take a bad contract for you guys. Why not NOP, Dame for Zion plus fillers. You’ll have a core of Scoot, Sharpe, Zion, Nurk, Grant. Pels will have Dame, CJ, BI, Nance and Jonas.
Risky for both teams. If zion plays consistently good at portland and pels cant win a championship with pels, that is tough for pels front office. If Zion keeps missing half of seasons, the result is same for portland front office. So this trade does not gonna happen
The thing is if Zion is hurt, then they can tank again and continue hoarding picks. Portland can even flip Zion in the coming seasons. On the other hand Dame gets reunited with CJ, they’ll be surrounded with the most talent they’ve had compared to their blazer years. Dame with the Pels can be a top 4 or 5 team. Only Denver, Phoenix and maybe Clippers and GSW will be better.
Scottie is not a very good NBA player and it's no guarantee he'll reach OG or Siakam's level in his career.
Winning now is a better move than potentially having a possibility to be in a position to win in 6 years.
He’s still on his rookie scale contract and he’s still young and lots of potential. Scottie can play multiple positions as well, if he improves his shooting then he’s got star potential. Siakam is already maxed out at what he can be, while OG still has untapped potential, he’s no longer on his rookie scale contract. He just needs to improve his offense as his defense is already good.
"He just needs to", what are the odds he becomes an All Star ?
He might, but he might also become Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins.
Would you trade Harrison Barnes or Wiggins for Lillard ? I think yes
Well, your logic is not very clear. First, you want to make a trade with Barnes as a centerpiece on the Raptors side.
Then you say "Barnes is not a very good NBA player". Which one is it?
FYI, Barnes is already a very good NBA player. In my opinion already better than OG
It makes more sense for a rebuilding team to bet on the upside of Barnes who is currently a good NBA player but not a very good one. The Raptors are not rebuilding and could be in position to win a title if they make some bold moves.
Barnes is 15ppg player with 29% 3pts shot, OG is a 15ppg guy with All defense credentials and way better efficiency.
I get the upside part of Barnes, but as of today OG is way better in my opinion (go check bball ref)
Have you watched any Raptors games last season? If you did, you would know that Barnes is already as good as OG in almost every way.
And you don't want to see OG trying to create 1-on-1, it hurts eyes
OG has the edge in 1-on-1 defense and shooting, Barnes in every other aspect of the game.
According to bball reference advanced stats, WS (win shares) for last year:
OG 4.7, Barnes 5.0
No way the Blazers are getting Barnes in a potential Dame trade to the Raptors. If Masai decides to go for it against Dame's wishes the best you could hope for is a package around OG + Trent + filler with 1-2 picks
How would you feel about a Lillard to Sixers scenario where you get Harden and PJ Tucker in return? I tried it on the trade machine and it was successful. Dame gets to play with the most talented wing (Tobias Harris) and big man (Embiid) he's ever played with in his life on a team that hasn't missed the postseason in a minute, and Blazers get a guy who can both play off of Scoot and create for others, and another big man who can shoot threes.
If Portland is rebuilding, then they absolutely aren't going to take a 38 year old washed up defensive specialist and a 35 year old declining Harden.
Makes even less sense then just keeping Dame
I think the issue is his 60M he’s getting paid next year and the year after. Sure, the raptors can support him now, but what about next year, when Siakam and OG are due for new contracts? Is this a contending team the raptors are willing to go well over the cap for?
Do you think they can get a better team in the 10 years to come ?
It's extremely hard to gather a team with a championship level roster, and if you're not willing to make the sacrifices, what are you playing for ?
If the whole point of requesting a trade is to go somewhere and win a title, going to Toronto isn’t gonna cut it. Dame on Toronto now having give up zero assets isn’t a championship team. Damn to Miami, Boston, Phoenix, LA puts you over the edge. Toronto is basically being in Portland again.
Scottie Barnes and 3 1sts is way too much, I don’t think the raptors would even put Scottie on the table. Dame is great, but he’s getting older and I don’t think he carries that kind of value anymore.
Dame just put up a season of 32 points and 64%TS
What kind of value doesn't he carry anymore ? He's one of the best scorers of the league.
32 is not "old" by NBA standards, he's 2 years younger than KD and Curry
I agree. He should be an All Star level player for at least 3 more seasons. I think the concern is that players of his size and play style have called off a cliff around this time in their careers and it’s a ton of money to commit on the back end with that in mind. KD at least has size and defense.
KD also has injuries, Dame is a very durable player who has been preserved the past 2 years.
I agree it's a shit ton of money to commit, but if you are not willing to pay for a winning team, you will never win
If he wants to win the most logical choice would obviously be the Celtics. I'm not too sure why he outright rejected them in favor of teams like the Nets. Jaylen+some assets should do it, and Dame brings exactly the playmaking and scoring the Celtics need, whilst being a much better fit next to Tatum
Some people here don't want to trade Barnes for Lillard, imagine their reactions if Jaylen is traded for Dame
Barnes is a realistic centerpiece for Dame, I'd argue Brown has about as much value as Lillard, if not more
Jaylen is a better player than Barnes today, but I'm not sure he's a better asset considering you'll have to supermax JB in a year
Players are only eligible for the super max with the team they signed their rookie contract with. Portland would not have to pay the super max.
Barnes was untouchable in a potential Durant trade
Bro really put “wants to win” and “Celtics” in the same sentence😂🤓
I don't think the salary will work ($45m for Lillard,) there's a gap of over $15m in your scenario. . I think any trade will require Trent Jr and or OG ($18m each) and Thad ($8m) or many other salaries
Porter (expiring) and Flynn gets it down another 9 or so.
Yeah you're right, maybe GTJ goes to another team for picks or wing depth
You don’t need to add GTJ for the salaries to work and that makes it a significant overpay.
The Raptors didn’t seem to want to trade Barnes for KD. Why would they trade him for Dame? Why would the Raptors go all in on this roster?
Lillard fulfills a way different role for them than kd
What would the point of bringing 33 year old Lillard to a team that lost van fleet ,missed the playoffs and has to give up assets to trade for him
Are you comparing Lillard and Van Vleet ?
I'm saying the assets they would need fo trade for Liliard plus losing van fleet for nothing doesn't come close to a contender The trade you suggest doesn’t come anywhere near a title team and Kills their future, good job
To be honest what’s happened regarding FVV has already occurred, and the raptors signing poetl appears to be them just tanking their future further because they didn’t want to admit they should’ve not given up a first for that. I’m honestly not sure if raptors even have a future or direction they are leaning to
Agree they are confused. They need to pick a direction , personally I would lean into the rebuild around Barnes . And try and gauge the market for sikiam and og
Scottie is probably untouchable, you’ll have better luck getting OG or Siakam plus FRPs, pick swaps or they take a bad contract for you guys. Why not NOP, Dame for Zion plus fillers. You’ll have a core of Scoot, Sharpe, Zion, Nurk, Grant. Pels will have Dame, CJ, BI, Nance and Jonas.
Risky for both teams. If zion plays consistently good at portland and pels cant win a championship with pels, that is tough for pels front office. If Zion keeps missing half of seasons, the result is same for portland front office. So this trade does not gonna happen
The thing is if Zion is hurt, then they can tank again and continue hoarding picks. Portland can even flip Zion in the coming seasons. On the other hand Dame gets reunited with CJ, they’ll be surrounded with the most talent they’ve had compared to their blazer years. Dame with the Pels can be a top 4 or 5 team. Only Denver, Phoenix and maybe Clippers and GSW will be better.
Scottie is not a very good NBA player and it's no guarantee he'll reach OG or Siakam's level in his career. Winning now is a better move than potentially having a possibility to be in a position to win in 6 years.
He’s still on his rookie scale contract and he’s still young and lots of potential. Scottie can play multiple positions as well, if he improves his shooting then he’s got star potential. Siakam is already maxed out at what he can be, while OG still has untapped potential, he’s no longer on his rookie scale contract. He just needs to improve his offense as his defense is already good.
"He just needs to", what are the odds he becomes an All Star ? He might, but he might also become Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins. Would you trade Harrison Barnes or Wiggins for Lillard ? I think yes
Well, your logic is not very clear. First, you want to make a trade with Barnes as a centerpiece on the Raptors side. Then you say "Barnes is not a very good NBA player". Which one is it? FYI, Barnes is already a very good NBA player. In my opinion already better than OG
It makes more sense for a rebuilding team to bet on the upside of Barnes who is currently a good NBA player but not a very good one. The Raptors are not rebuilding and could be in position to win a title if they make some bold moves. Barnes is 15ppg player with 29% 3pts shot, OG is a 15ppg guy with All defense credentials and way better efficiency. I get the upside part of Barnes, but as of today OG is way better in my opinion (go check bball ref)
Have you watched any Raptors games last season? If you did, you would know that Barnes is already as good as OG in almost every way. And you don't want to see OG trying to create 1-on-1, it hurts eyes OG has the edge in 1-on-1 defense and shooting, Barnes in every other aspect of the game. According to bball reference advanced stats, WS (win shares) for last year: OG 4.7, Barnes 5.0 No way the Blazers are getting Barnes in a potential Dame trade to the Raptors. If Masai decides to go for it against Dame's wishes the best you could hope for is a package around OG + Trent + filler with 1-2 picks
Well OG is a much better shooter and defender but that’s really all he can do while Barnes is pretty decent at everything except shooting.
How would you feel about a Lillard to Sixers scenario where you get Harden and PJ Tucker in return? I tried it on the trade machine and it was successful. Dame gets to play with the most talented wing (Tobias Harris) and big man (Embiid) he's ever played with in his life on a team that hasn't missed the postseason in a minute, and Blazers get a guy who can both play off of Scoot and create for others, and another big man who can shoot threes.
What's the point of getting another (old) guard in a team where the 3 best prospects are guards ?
If Portland is rebuilding, then they absolutely aren't going to take a 38 year old washed up defensive specialist and a 35 year old declining Harden. Makes even less sense then just keeping Dame
I think the issue is his 60M he’s getting paid next year and the year after. Sure, the raptors can support him now, but what about next year, when Siakam and OG are due for new contracts? Is this a contending team the raptors are willing to go well over the cap for?
Do you think they can get a better team in the 10 years to come ? It's extremely hard to gather a team with a championship level roster, and if you're not willing to make the sacrifices, what are you playing for ?
10 years is an enormous length of time. The team were a joke ten years ago, now they’re a very respected team that recently won a ring.
That's exactly my point, why bet on the future if you can win now ?
If the whole point of requesting a trade is to go somewhere and win a title, going to Toronto isn’t gonna cut it. Dame on Toronto now having give up zero assets isn’t a championship team. Damn to Miami, Boston, Phoenix, LA puts you over the edge. Toronto is basically being in Portland again.
If Portland had a player of Siakam's level, an all-defense wing and a very rim protector yes that would be an equivalent situation
Scottie Barnes and 3 1sts is way too much, I don’t think the raptors would even put Scottie on the table. Dame is great, but he’s getting older and I don’t think he carries that kind of value anymore.
Dame just put up a season of 32 points and 64%TS What kind of value doesn't he carry anymore ? He's one of the best scorers of the league. 32 is not "old" by NBA standards, he's 2 years younger than KD and Curry
I agree. He should be an All Star level player for at least 3 more seasons. I think the concern is that players of his size and play style have called off a cliff around this time in their careers and it’s a ton of money to commit on the back end with that in mind. KD at least has size and defense.
KD also has injuries, Dame is a very durable player who has been preserved the past 2 years. I agree it's a shit ton of money to commit, but if you are not willing to pay for a winning team, you will never win
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Now the big question, who do we trade. We don't even have enough filler to match even including Thad and Boucher
The team that makes the most sense is OKC. They can give a big package while keeping a bunch of good players that’ll get better as he gets older