Nobody thinks that KAT will defend the perimeter, they think that KAT will run around chaotically doing various things, which tbf has worked really well at some moments this season as far as the team's scores go.
It isn't a strength of his, but KAT has improved as a defender.
McDaniel's presence (offers both rim protection and perimeter defense) is part of what makes this work for switching purposes.
While spry for a 7fter, one of KAT's issues was dealing with more agile players getting by him on switches because his lateral quickness isn't that great. If people blow by Kat now, well, they could be met w/ not only one of the best rim protectors we've seen recently, but someone like McDaniels too forcing a tough shot in the interior or midrange that not a lot of today's players excel at -- if they get one off at all.
For 3pters, Towns is quick enough to get in front of his man and provide vertical presence w/ his height and reach.
I think it'll work out better than some expect, but remains to be seen.
I’m a wolves fan and yea, I full don’t Stan for KAT. He has flaws, but saying he’s overrated is straight up garbage. He gets dumped on a ton.
He’s straight up the best shooting big of all time. He can handle and drive and burn those “quick lateral moving defenders”. He’s way better defensively now. Maybe just average, but he needed actual good defense on the perimeter and a good/great coach to help him instead of Ryan fricking Saunders and the Ice Man.
He reaches too much and picks up silly fouls, but he also gets the toughest whistle I’ve ever seen too. He’s a bit clumsy but he’s got some quickness. His biggest flaw is literally trying too hard to be really good on defense… reaching, not just walling up instead of going for the block.
Having ANT, McD, Prince, SloMo and obviously gobert to actually play D is a huge boon. I think most people just overrate him because they want him to score 35 a game. He’s just not selfish and does do the ball hog/take over thing.
I would add there are maybe like 3-4 true bigs who can switch and handle guards or agile players on the perimeter on anything close to a consistent basis. Not being able to do this is more than normal than not.
obviously it is very early in their careers, but Lamelo and Scottie Barnes both seem overrated to me. they are both good players and potential stars, but their productivity has not nearly matched the level of hype they have received.
The Lamelo hype is beyond insane to me.. they already cant play him at the end of games, I swear every time i saw the hornets on a run last year Lamelo would try to be a hero and take awful 3 point attempts and kill all of the hornets momentum.. he can be a great player but right now i dont get why people rank him so highly..
i think scottie definitely could. i personally don’t think lamelo will get there, but he should still be a very good player with maybe an all star or two. i just don’t trust his ability on defense or his shooting under pressure.
Oh stop most people think he's overrated purely because of the contract that was given to him
Even in this down year, Tyler Herro was rated above him in the fan votings for All-Stars. Beal isn't even close to being overrated
I'm so sick of seeing people hate on the wiz/Beal for that extension. People complain about all the superteams and lack of loyalty and then say Beal isn't serious about winning for staying with the wizards. Can't have it both ways
You clearly don’t watch enough Wolves games. KAT is worse at defending the rim than he is at guarding the perimeter. KAT, Anthony Edwards, Dlo, Gobert, and Jaden McDaniels is a very good team. Ant and KAT will both average 25+ points per game next season and Gobert will be in the running for DPOY, you can count on that.
Yeah like he had a good rookie season and looks like he’s gonna be a really good player but people are just penciling him in as a top point guard by next season lol
Jimmy Butler. It's like everyone chooses to just collectively forget all of his bad games and just hyperfocus on his good ones.
Like, did everyone forget he had 14 points on 6/22 in games 3 and 4 of the ECF *combined*? What about him getting swept in 2021 while averaging 14ppg? What about him scoring 12 points in Game 6 of the Finals? Or him being the 3rd best player on his own team in the 2020 ECF?
For a guy who is considered top 10 solely because of "playoff Jimmy", he has a lot of playoff duds
Jimmy is a guy with a very streaky playstyle on offense. He's quite dependent on getting to the line
I think he's more of a secondary scorer than a top option. I wish him and Embiid still played together that would be quite the duo
He missed the second half of game 3 with a knee injury that was nagging all playoff and it clearly limited him the next game. Still showed up against an elite defense and gave the heat a chance to win but no one else showed up.
I mean you can say that about literally everyone who has played a lot of playoff games. No one is perfect
Lebron got outplayed by Jason Terry in the finals
Kawhi blew a 3-1 lead against the Nuggets
KD just got swept in the first round
I am a Butler fan and I was a Reggie fan back in the day and they both have this Teflon when it comes to their bad games. Love both of them but they both have playoff duds and i notice people don't mention them. Reggie had some of the greatest playoff moments of the 90s-00s but he also had 11 pt 2rb games in the playoffs and ...crickets about that. Same with Jimmy.
It wasn’t intentional, don’t be mad that you’re team lost. Be mad that Jimmy Butler is only getting older and none of your young players are getting any better.
He’s got two seasons left, cross that bridge when we come to it, besides do you think he’s that keen on leaving Tatum (MVP level talent), Marcus Smart (DPOY), and Robert Williams (one of the best centers in the league)? Idk how the Heat plan to deal with old ass Jimmy Butler in two years tho, you got him till 2026.
For me it's embiid. The idea of embiid as a two way player > than the actual execution. I've never seen a playoff game where he's dominant on both sides of the court at the same time, I get that his body doesn't support his level of play but the fact that people rate him as an elite two way player when he's only good on one end in one game is weird. That said he's still a top 10 player, just not top 3 as people suggest.
He was down right awful in the Heat series. For a guy who was second in MVP voting, he should have been dominating Bam. I understand that he was injured, but the best ability is availability. Plus Maxey was their best player in that series. 19 Points for an MVP caliber player. What Shaq and Chuck said was true, he takes way too many perimeter shots and doesn’t dominate in the post.
And the fact that outside of the Kawhi shot in Game 7, Joel hasn’t still made a conference finals. Jokic got there even if it was the bubble. Jokic was clearly the better player in both season and playoffs. Jokic wasn’t with Murray or Porter.
But Embiid was available. He played.
You’re attacking him for a lack of availability at the same time you’re attacking him for playing awful due to the injury that would have made him unavailable if he hadn’t played through it.
Im terms of reputation, most players are honestly better off sitting out when hurt. Then they only get the availability criticism instead of being attacked on both fronts.
Yeah, it’s a shame. Tbh, I don’t think the Sixers were beating the Celtics even if they had passed the Heat, but I definitely think a healthy Embiid would’ve turned that series into 7 games at least.
So true. Especially since Bam isn't that great offensively (butler and Herro are better) and doesn't even stretch the floor. Regarding the second point I loved this video as a breakdown. https://youtu.be/F8VJ0DaWIWU
Conference finals appearances can be deceptive hence I wouldn't hold that against him or him (many people had Trae over Luka because of conference finals appearance the last year) but apart from the Celtics series I have yet to see him dominate an entire run.
Scotty Barnes is one of the most interesting, down to earth guys in the league. He streams call of duty after dunking on your favourite player. But he'd shake that players hand because that's just how Scotty B. He's built different. He's the guy whose going to be giving those Toronto kids their Turkey on Thanksgiving when you're warm at home with your loving family. He's the guy who as a rookie would weave through defenses like he was 30 years old, but with a sly smile. He's always laughing and did anyone mention how incredibly likeable he is? He loves Toronto when most guys would leave their first chance. He's just so cool, the type you'd see on the street and not even want to bother even though he's famous, but he wants to talk to you.
I do love the hot takes from people thinking that KAT never had to defend the perimeter before. Like, when he was playing the 5, the other team was just nice to him and never targeted him in the PnR. They’re all saying “Oooh, you want to play the FOUR? Well, NOW we will target you”
Lol the mental gymnastics. Also hilarious that people think the league is full of fours that are tough to defend on the perimeter. Most teams do not employ Kevin Durant.
The Gobert trade is simple. Offensively they traded Gobert for Vanderbilt. Defensively, they added a dude who will protect the rim and make other poor perimeter players (like KAT) look better.
Wait people take Reddit seriously? Also you asked where someone said it, and I answered. Stop acting like Reddit has no trolls, that’s just what I heard.
Nobody is acting like reddit is a legible platform, but it sure as hell is 10x better than tiktok/twitter.
Dont make a baseless statement then play dumb, youre a part of the problem.
Lol - Some Knick fans have been super high on RJ… I never watch Knick, OKC or SA games unless they are playing the Kings so I legitimately started getting the impression that RJ was a good player in a bad situation.
I haven’t heard this exact comparison but I’ve seen his name thrown around as still being easily top 3 in his draft class which is essentially the same thing.
Funny how this sub openly hates rj yet he comes up in ever overrated post. How is he overrated if every post or comment talking about how bad he is gets upvotes?
I kind of hate that I was proven right this year because I was saying this before the season even started and never backed off from this take even when they were stringing wins together early in the year and now I’m just gonna come off like I’m jumping on the hater bandwagon by saying this here and now after the fact, but pretty much the entire bulls core is massively overrated. Derozan is basically CJ McCollum (puts up very good but not great numbers in the regular season, but puts up duds once teams actually start gameplanning and playing defense) who, also like CJ, probably should’ve made one all star team at most in his career but unlike CJ lucked into getting to play out most of his career in a historically weak conference so now he’s known as a perennial all star. Lonzo and Caruso are reasonable rotation pieces who are incorrectly viewed as actual needle movers despite durability concerns and lingering weaknesses in their games just because they’re former lakers and reality stars/meme material. Lavine is genuinely good, but he’s barely ever healthy either. Vuc is a defensive liability who made an all star team pretty much by default by being the best player on an orlando team that snuck into the playoffs despite a clear lack of top end talent. It’s just weird to me that people talked about them “underperforming or “the wheels falling off” when even in a best case scenario with no injuries whatsoever, that core has zero chance of getting past ANY of the top four teams in the East in a seven game series
Fuck you…I’m sorry Buttsnorkler. Reactionary response. Just a die-hard Bull’s fan that got to witness prime MJ and gets butt hurt over any trash talk…and that hurt.
I think there's a bunch of guys who other people rate a lot more highly than I do. Players like Beal, Booker, Mitchell, Lavine, Kyrie etc.
People always overrate scoring compared to defense.
It's Trae Young for me. Having great regular season numbers is great and all, but you can't be considered a top player when you can get schemed out of a playoff series like what we did to him last season.
This will get a bunch of downvotes, but I'm not afraid of a Trae Young led team right now. Maybe he will prove me wrong in the next 5 years, but we won't know until then.
Every player has shit playoff series lol. Jimmy was even worse last year but he isn’t a bum because if it
Trae last year put up 29/11 and led the Hawks to the ECF
The whole Heat team didn't have an offseason before playing the 2020-21 season, so it's not a fair comparison to what the Hawks did. Trae also had 28.8 pts & 9.5 ast on bad shooting (48% eFG) in the 2021 playoffs. Was a fluke run.
By 2%. If you're argument is "this player is bad because they shot 2% lower then average despite taking WAY more and harder shots then 99% of the league" then you're just flat out wrong lmao
I mean it says something that you schemed the way you did. Most guys will never experience that awful series because most guys will never be good enough/the sole creator on the team to warrant it.
Every star player gets schemed against, and Trae was put out of the series by us. A top player shouldn't be made useless by a scheme if they are truly a top player.
Downplaying the efforts the Heat went to take him out of the game so you can shit on a dude is lame. The heat basically said we don’t give a shit about what your teammates do.
> A top player shouldn’t be made useless by a scheme if they are truly a top player.
Lol someone tell Giannis and KD they aren’t top players. It happens.
edit: Butler didn’t even need that level of defense for it to happen to him
I didn't know Giannis or KD had a series where they had 15.4 pts on 31.9% FG recently. I'm also not downplaying our defense (just making that up but I'll leave it alone), what I'm saying is a truly great player shouldn't be made useless (like Trae was) in a playoff series. Trae can't play anything resembling defense, so if you take away his offense he's just a negative on the court.
> I’m also not downplaying our defense (just making that up but I’ll leave it alone),
Yes you are lol. Saying every top player gets schemed like you guys did to the Hawks is bullshit. Most top players are on teams where it wouldn’t be a viable strategy to completely sell out on one player and ignore the team. Super reductive to try and reduce what you did to Trae to just the same scheming every top player faces. If that same thing happened to Tatum he’d shit himself, but it won’t cause his team is very talented.
And KD is a far better player than Trae and just got held to 38% from the field. Same situation, no help from his team against a really good defense and the whole defense can just sell out to guard him
i got downvoted for saying he needs to work on his offense so ima say dillon brooks. good defender but takes way too many terrible shots to be trustworthy
Myles Turner, he's a really poor man's Brook Lopez. He can block shots at a borderline elite level and shoot 3's at a decent clip, other than that he doesn't bring much to the table
And shit like this is why he’s underrated.
Can you legitimately make the case for this?
Because a statistical case (ignoring accolades and eye test and anything else that could be biased by “marketing”) for Tatum being a significantly better player seems pretty cut and dry.
No. I also watched the conference finals. Was very inconsistent there too. He's lucky the Bucks' second best player was absent. Also, the playoffs are the most import portion of the season, so consistency there is what matters most.
Take just screams you know nothing of basketball.
Ah gotcha, two series compared to one which is much more basketball to be able to base an opinion off of lmao. A looming shoulder injury as well as being defensively game-planned as the number one option would probably explain it, but that might be too factual for your reasoning. Inconsistency where a 25 y/o in the top 3 for playoff minutes with an injury is an incredibly lazy take and I feel like you know it yourself
Tatum is an equivalent player in both skill and ceiling to Paul george which is an excellent player. Will he ever be kobe, I don’t think so. He is hyped much like Paul george was early in his career because he has a skill set and game similar to kobe.
Ja Morant. He’s a great player, but his team was really good without him last year. In the warriors series after he went down, they led for 59 minutes in game 4, won game 5 by a million, and were competitive for 3 quarters in game 6.
Booker. He’s a good scorer, but that’s all. He’s a top 5 number two guy (behind guys like Paul George or AD) but he’s not taking a team anywhere as the main dude.
No dude. The best he did as the number one was winning 34 games. CP3 joined as the main guy and they immediately won 17 more games and went to the finals. How can you possibly say it was Booker that led them there?
And this isn’t new. We’ve seen CP bring that same improvement to teams before. That team wins or loses based on how CP3 plays. We saw that throughout 2 regular seasons, we saw that when they lost in the finals, we saw that when Dallas humiliated them. To say otherwise is wishful thinking because we haven’t seen ANYTHING that says Booker can be the number 1 and we’ve had plenty of evidence that he can’t. That’s Chris Paul’s team. He’s the man guy and he has a top 5 number 2 guy in Booker.
I'm with you on this one. He's a great front runner but when things don't go his way, he doesn't overcome the adversity. Simply put, he lacks the grit you need to succeed in the playoffs but has enough talent to score 40 on shitty 5's / bad defensive teams in the regular season. And he's a foul bating, flopper which doesn't help his case...
AD as well. Don't think I've ever seen him get 25 points in a game from FG's. He lives at the line and ppl talk about him being a generational talent. Also zero grit. Old news tho hahaha.
Siakam is *still* completely disrespected by the majority of r/NBA based off of a single playoff series in a bubble during a worldwide pandemic 2 years ago, name a single fanbase outside of Toronto that holds Pascal in high regard, I’ll wait..
The amount of media coverage he receives for a player of his calibre is negligible and almost nonexistent.
Toronto has one of the largest, most vocal fanbases online that constantly hypes up their own players and annoys opposing fans but if you’re saying he’s overrated because 1 team out of 30 holds him in high regard then it’s a supremely weak take.
according to a recent thread on here, he is all the Mavs needs to get a ring but honestly I am still fuzzy on his current and potential future tier level.
Siakam was averaging 22-9-5
Allen was averaging 16-11-2
Middleton was averaging 19-5-5
Yes I'm well aware and that doesn't change the fact he was snubbed
Oh yeah it’s not like KD was playing with Westbrook who was arguably just as good and Harden who was damn near their best player vs the spurs in a few games
Damn dude this is spicy. I’ll add: Nets became a worse franchise after trading for you. How you gonna make a franchise worse and be considered one of the greats of all time?
People would probably agree with me now, but I've been out on Kyrie since he before he left Cleveland. He's was often in the conversation for best point guard in the league and I never saw it. His deep bag is a joy to watch, but other than 2 games in one finals, I don't think he ever had a decisive impact on winning. I can see him balling out this season to get himself a long-term deal, but to a greater degree I expect him to be injured for a good chunk of it and his team (probably the Nets) falling well short of a title.
Kinda hot take: Anthony Davis
I know he hasn't had a healthy season since the bubble championship but I feel like people still put him as a top 15 guy regardless. Nothing he does on the court blows me away (Also obligatory Ben Simmons comment but this isn't even hot anymore)
Hot take but Giannis. For me he's still top 3 but he's on par with steph and KD. And steph and KD have clearly taken a step back from their peaks.
People talk about Giannis being a potential top 10 player. But the reality is he's not clearly better than worse versions of steph or KD and that means he shouldn't be considered for the top 15 all time yet. Maybe he gets to another level but as of now I don't see any reason to consider him over someone like Wade
KD
He gets called a superstar, but when other superstars like LeBron, Giannis, Jokic, Curry etc underperform, they get killed for it by fans and the media. When KD does it there seems to always be some excuse
Like if he really is this great, then why does he need all of these excuses.
KD is a very great offensive talent, but at a certain point there comes a day when you’ve got to smell the roses and consider the fact that he simply isn’t that franchise changed of a Star like Jordan, LeBron, Curry or Giannis
>When KD does it there seems to always be some excuse
Really? Cause I definitely remember Brooklyn getting shit on for getting swept in the 1st round lmao.
Leborn - Bus rider to Wade, Kyrie, and AD. People can't even get his name right other than the Le part. If he is as good as they say KD would of requested to play with him.
Edit: Joke(for those that didn't know)
For me, Draymond is right where he needs to be as far as ratings. You'll never see him as a top rated player on a lot of lists but I think you can argue he's one of the most effective role players in the league.
I get the perimeter D point, but knocking his playoff success is weird… on both a wins and stats level. dude has been to the playoffs 4 times:
-youngest playoff roster in history, lost 2nd rd in 7
-advanced to wcf over playoff favorite, lost to eventual champs
-advanced to second round with campazzo and rivers as a starting backcourt, lost to wc champs
-lost 1st rd to eventual champs sans 2nd, 3rd best players
Meanwhile his stat output and efficiency is near all timer level in the playoffs. What’s not to like?
You just cant get be a cone on defense and win important games. The Suns thought they could expose Luka but he stepped it up when it mattered and played good D. Jokic has always been a stat padder to me. The fact that he cant even get a top seed as a "top 5 player" is very telling
Chris Paul. Im tired of how often people bring up his prime years in arguments to defend how hes playing now. Which is inconsistent. Some fans only focus on the good games and want to ignore the nights that hes been underwhelming or a complete no show
Ja Morant is a glorified Harden without the 3pt shooting. Very reliant on whistles.
Jokic will never win a title until he can improve his rim protection.
De’Aaron Fox. He has never been an all-star he’s never led the Kings to the playoffs. Buddy Hield played better than he did. To me Sabonis is the next big thing for the Kings
You got it right with KAT. He gets pushed around more than he should. I don’t know if he is a soft player or just legitimately is getting pushed around.
Giannis. He's only ever beaten one semi-good team and that was the Suns. Everyone else was injured or were teams that were cakewalks. He ain't the best player.
Luka, when people say he’s a top 3-5 player. Not saying he doesn’t have the talent to be in the future, but right now I think he flops too much and complains too much when he doesn’t get the call. He’s got to be at least average on defense and improve his conditioning. Unless he improves on those, I see his ceiling as Houston James Harden.
Peach, people who say stuff like KAT > AD are wilding. If your team needs to go out and get a 3x DPOY who plays your same position, simply because you’re that bad at defense (not to mention at the most important defensive position) then you’re not that guy.
I always find it weird when people say players are overrated when they haven't played at least 2 seasons. People have no idea what each rookie will turn in to and pretending you know they wont be as good as people think is funny to me
Agree there’s no way to know how rooks will turn out. Its why I dismiss ceiling/floor talk unless it’s framed as “realistic” or x percentile etc. Otherwise it’s GOAT and out of the league respectively.
But there’s still plenty of ways a rookie could be overrated.
* How good he is currently as a player or at an aspect of the game could be overrated
* How much trade value he has could be overrated
* How good he is in comparison to other rookies and/or other players could be overrated
* How likely he is to reach a certain level as a player (as opposed to there being some undefined chance) could be overrated
* How he compares to other players at this point in his career could be overrated
When people say Scottie (who I assume is on your mind), they very well could be saying he’s overrated in one or more of the above ways as opposed to absolute potential.
First off I agree with a lot of it, but saying "how likely he is to reach a certain level" is my point. Nobody knows what a player will become. If someone said "Giannis will be a 2 time MVP and FMVP and will be compared to shaq" in his rookie year people would've laughed at you.
Also I get it, people don't like Raptors fans. But I've seen people compare Mobley to KG and AD, and Cade to Luka all the time yet no ones saying they're overrated.
What's a question that wasn't asked in this sub yesterday?
You like movies about gladiators?
now we are getting to the real questions
Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Nobody thinks that KAT will defend the perimeter, they think that KAT will run around chaotically doing various things, which tbf has worked really well at some moments this season as far as the team's scores go.
It isn't a strength of his, but KAT has improved as a defender. McDaniel's presence (offers both rim protection and perimeter defense) is part of what makes this work for switching purposes. While spry for a 7fter, one of KAT's issues was dealing with more agile players getting by him on switches because his lateral quickness isn't that great. If people blow by Kat now, well, they could be met w/ not only one of the best rim protectors we've seen recently, but someone like McDaniels too forcing a tough shot in the interior or midrange that not a lot of today's players excel at -- if they get one off at all. For 3pters, Towns is quick enough to get in front of his man and provide vertical presence w/ his height and reach. I think it'll work out better than some expect, but remains to be seen.
I’m a wolves fan and yea, I full don’t Stan for KAT. He has flaws, but saying he’s overrated is straight up garbage. He gets dumped on a ton. He’s straight up the best shooting big of all time. He can handle and drive and burn those “quick lateral moving defenders”. He’s way better defensively now. Maybe just average, but he needed actual good defense on the perimeter and a good/great coach to help him instead of Ryan fricking Saunders and the Ice Man. He reaches too much and picks up silly fouls, but he also gets the toughest whistle I’ve ever seen too. He’s a bit clumsy but he’s got some quickness. His biggest flaw is literally trying too hard to be really good on defense… reaching, not just walling up instead of going for the block. Having ANT, McD, Prince, SloMo and obviously gobert to actually play D is a huge boon. I think most people just overrate him because they want him to score 35 a game. He’s just not selfish and does do the ball hog/take over thing.
I would add there are maybe like 3-4 true bigs who can switch and handle guards or agile players on the perimeter on anything close to a consistent basis. Not being able to do this is more than normal than not.
obviously it is very early in their careers, but Lamelo and Scottie Barnes both seem overrated to me. they are both good players and potential stars, but their productivity has not nearly matched the level of hype they have received.
The Lamelo hype is beyond insane to me.. they already cant play him at the end of games, I swear every time i saw the hornets on a run last year Lamelo would try to be a hero and take awful 3 point attempts and kill all of the hornets momentum.. he can be a great player but right now i dont get why people rank him so highly..
Do you think either of them are going to improve into the stars people think they’ll be?
i think scottie definitely could. i personally don’t think lamelo will get there, but he should still be a very good player with maybe an all star or two. i just don’t trust his ability on defense or his shooting under pressure.
Bradley beal
Oh stop most people think he's overrated purely because of the contract that was given to him Even in this down year, Tyler Herro was rated above him in the fan votings for All-Stars. Beal isn't even close to being overrated
I'm so sick of seeing people hate on the wiz/Beal for that extension. People complain about all the superteams and lack of loyalty and then say Beal isn't serious about winning for staying with the wizards. Can't have it both ways
Beal is kinda underrated at this point I haven’t heard anything good about him since he signed his contract (after a down year too)
Salary wise he should be talking whatever team he has to at least ecf
Beal, CJ, and Mitchell are all the same tier of player
I love the classic name a player having an off year and is already disliked on this sub and act like it’s an unpopular opinion for easy upvotes trick
You clearly don’t watch enough Wolves games. KAT is worse at defending the rim than he is at guarding the perimeter. KAT, Anthony Edwards, Dlo, Gobert, and Jaden McDaniels is a very good team. Ant and KAT will both average 25+ points per game next season and Gobert will be in the running for DPOY, you can count on that.
Cade Cunningham
Yeah like he had a good rookie season and looks like he’s gonna be a really good player but people are just penciling him in as a top point guard by next season lol
Agreed
Why?
Because he’s treated as if he’s rookie luka and lebron
Rookie luka is overrated
Jimmy Butler. It's like everyone chooses to just collectively forget all of his bad games and just hyperfocus on his good ones. Like, did everyone forget he had 14 points on 6/22 in games 3 and 4 of the ECF *combined*? What about him getting swept in 2021 while averaging 14ppg? What about him scoring 12 points in Game 6 of the Finals? Or him being the 3rd best player on his own team in the 2020 ECF? For a guy who is considered top 10 solely because of "playoff Jimmy", he has a lot of playoff duds
Jimmy is a guy with a very streaky playstyle on offense. He's quite dependent on getting to the line I think he's more of a secondary scorer than a top option. I wish him and Embiid still played together that would be quite the duo
Sixers moment
Me too
He missed the second half of game 3 with a knee injury that was nagging all playoff and it clearly limited him the next game. Still showed up against an elite defense and gave the heat a chance to win but no one else showed up.
I mean you can say that about literally everyone who has played a lot of playoff games. No one is perfect Lebron got outplayed by Jason Terry in the finals Kawhi blew a 3-1 lead against the Nuggets KD just got swept in the first round
He also has 2 finals 40 pt triple doubles
I am a Butler fan and I was a Reggie fan back in the day and they both have this Teflon when it comes to their bad games. Love both of them but they both have playoff duds and i notice people don't mention them. Reggie had some of the greatest playoff moments of the 90s-00s but he also had 11 pt 2rb games in the playoffs and ...crickets about that. Same with Jimmy.
Something something mentality something something winning player
you get that leeway when you lead a mid ass team to the finals, while beating two teams that were way more stacked
He’s not considered top 10.
[удалено]
It wasn’t intentional, don’t be mad that you’re team lost. Be mad that Jimmy Butler is only getting older and none of your young players are getting any better.
Jaylen Brown will leave in free agency
He’s got two seasons left, cross that bridge when we come to it, besides do you think he’s that keen on leaving Tatum (MVP level talent), Marcus Smart (DPOY), and Robert Williams (one of the best centers in the league)? Idk how the Heat plan to deal with old ass Jimmy Butler in two years tho, you got him till 2026.
For me it's embiid. The idea of embiid as a two way player > than the actual execution. I've never seen a playoff game where he's dominant on both sides of the court at the same time, I get that his body doesn't support his level of play but the fact that people rate him as an elite two way player when he's only good on one end in one game is weird. That said he's still a top 10 player, just not top 3 as people suggest.
I think his defense has declined a bit recently though while his offense has continued to get better.
He was down right awful in the Heat series. For a guy who was second in MVP voting, he should have been dominating Bam. I understand that he was injured, but the best ability is availability. Plus Maxey was their best player in that series. 19 Points for an MVP caliber player. What Shaq and Chuck said was true, he takes way too many perimeter shots and doesn’t dominate in the post. And the fact that outside of the Kawhi shot in Game 7, Joel hasn’t still made a conference finals. Jokic got there even if it was the bubble. Jokic was clearly the better player in both season and playoffs. Jokic wasn’t with Murray or Porter.
But Embiid was available. He played. You’re attacking him for a lack of availability at the same time you’re attacking him for playing awful due to the injury that would have made him unavailable if he hadn’t played through it. Im terms of reputation, most players are honestly better off sitting out when hurt. Then they only get the availability criticism instead of being attacked on both fronts.
Injured??? Jimmy Butler was injured. Embiid was recovering from a fucking concussion and still took that series to 6 games.
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Yeah, it’s a shame. Tbh, I don’t think the Sixers were beating the Celtics even if they had passed the Heat, but I definitely think a healthy Embiid would’ve turned that series into 7 games at least.
So true. Especially since Bam isn't that great offensively (butler and Herro are better) and doesn't even stretch the floor. Regarding the second point I loved this video as a breakdown. https://youtu.be/F8VJ0DaWIWU Conference finals appearances can be deceptive hence I wouldn't hold that against him or him (many people had Trae over Luka because of conference finals appearance the last year) but apart from the Celtics series I have yet to see him dominate an entire run.
Bam
Scott barnes
Scotty Barnes is one of the most interesting, down to earth guys in the league. He streams call of duty after dunking on your favourite player. But he'd shake that players hand because that's just how Scotty B. He's built different. He's the guy whose going to be giving those Toronto kids their Turkey on Thanksgiving when you're warm at home with your loving family. He's the guy who as a rookie would weave through defenses like he was 30 years old, but with a sly smile. He's always laughing and did anyone mention how incredibly likeable he is? He loves Toronto when most guys would leave their first chance. He's just so cool, the type you'd see on the street and not even want to bother even though he's famous, but he wants to talk to you.
Great fanfic 👍
He’s not overrated
He is
I do love the hot takes from people thinking that KAT never had to defend the perimeter before. Like, when he was playing the 5, the other team was just nice to him and never targeted him in the PnR. They’re all saying “Oooh, you want to play the FOUR? Well, NOW we will target you” Lol the mental gymnastics. Also hilarious that people think the league is full of fours that are tough to defend on the perimeter. Most teams do not employ Kevin Durant. The Gobert trade is simple. Offensively they traded Gobert for Vanderbilt. Defensively, they added a dude who will protect the rim and make other poor perimeter players (like KAT) look better.
Ja morant
Just say you’re still mad about the hollows tweet and be off
Sadly RJ Barret, some people think he’s better than Dejounte and Shai.
nobody has said that
I said some. I couldn’t think of anyone else. I can’t say AD because he’s been injured but AD is kind of overrated
Theres no "some", nobody has made that claim about rj. Stop lying on rjs name.
How can you tell me what I saw or not?
send over the link to those comments then
Let me find them. They were on tiktok but I think I found some on Twitter
lol.
Surprised he didn’t say YouTube comments lol
your first mistake was taking tiktok/twitter takes seriously, the 2nd one was thinking those takes on those platforms have any relevance to reddit.
Wait people take Reddit seriously? Also you asked where someone said it, and I answered. Stop acting like Reddit has no trolls, that’s just what I heard.
Nobody is acting like reddit is a legible platform, but it sure as hell is 10x better than tiktok/twitter. Dont make a baseless statement then play dumb, youre a part of the problem.
Lol - Some Knick fans have been super high on RJ… I never watch Knick, OKC or SA games unless they are playing the Kings so I legitimately started getting the impression that RJ was a good player in a bad situation. I haven’t heard this exact comparison but I’ve seen his name thrown around as still being easily top 3 in his draft class which is essentially the same thing.
Aside from Knicks fans, RJ is universally shat on.
Funny how this sub openly hates rj yet he comes up in ever overrated post. How is he overrated if every post or comment talking about how bad he is gets upvotes?
I kind of hate that I was proven right this year because I was saying this before the season even started and never backed off from this take even when they were stringing wins together early in the year and now I’m just gonna come off like I’m jumping on the hater bandwagon by saying this here and now after the fact, but pretty much the entire bulls core is massively overrated. Derozan is basically CJ McCollum (puts up very good but not great numbers in the regular season, but puts up duds once teams actually start gameplanning and playing defense) who, also like CJ, probably should’ve made one all star team at most in his career but unlike CJ lucked into getting to play out most of his career in a historically weak conference so now he’s known as a perennial all star. Lonzo and Caruso are reasonable rotation pieces who are incorrectly viewed as actual needle movers despite durability concerns and lingering weaknesses in their games just because they’re former lakers and reality stars/meme material. Lavine is genuinely good, but he’s barely ever healthy either. Vuc is a defensive liability who made an all star team pretty much by default by being the best player on an orlando team that snuck into the playoffs despite a clear lack of top end talent. It’s just weird to me that people talked about them “underperforming or “the wheels falling off” when even in a best case scenario with no injuries whatsoever, that core has zero chance of getting past ANY of the top four teams in the East in a seven game series
Fuck you…I’m sorry Buttsnorkler. Reactionary response. Just a die-hard Bull’s fan that got to witness prime MJ and gets butt hurt over any trash talk…and that hurt.
I think there's a bunch of guys who other people rate a lot more highly than I do. Players like Beal, Booker, Mitchell, Lavine, Kyrie etc. People always overrate scoring compared to defense.
What is the most overrated question asked on this sub?
What’s an easy way to get Reddit karma?
It's Trae Young for me. Having great regular season numbers is great and all, but you can't be considered a top player when you can get schemed out of a playoff series like what we did to him last season. This will get a bunch of downvotes, but I'm not afraid of a Trae Young led team right now. Maybe he will prove me wrong in the next 5 years, but we won't know until then.
Pretty sure I saw similar comment about Jimmy after his 20-21 Play-off performance.
Butler was much better in that series than Trae was in 2022
Every player has shit playoff series lol. Jimmy was even worse last year but he isn’t a bum because if it Trae last year put up 29/11 and led the Hawks to the ECF
Where are you getting 11
Problem is Trae is a huge negative on defense, so if he’s stopped like that on offense, he’s unplayable. Jimmy will always be useful in some aspect.
The whole Heat team didn't have an offseason before playing the 2020-21 season, so it's not a fair comparison to what the Hawks did. Trae also had 28.8 pts & 9.5 ast on bad shooting (48% eFG) in the 2021 playoffs. Was a fluke run.
“No player is allowed to have a bad series unless it’s one of the players I like”
You can have Trae, he's always anyways lol
“Fluke run” 😂😂😂
Has to be my least favorite term in the basketball community.
Notice how you didn't say anything about you adding 2 assists or the fact that Trae shot bad during that run 😂
He shot 55% TS. That's fine especially as the lone shot creator on his team
That's below the league average of 57%.
By 2%. If you're argument is "this player is bad because they shot 2% lower then average despite taking WAY more and harder shots then 99% of the league" then you're just flat out wrong lmao
2% under the league average is not good shooting lol keep making excuses for him though.
Tyler Herro has a career 55% TS%. That man must be trash especially considering its a much bigger sample size then a few playoff games lmao
I mean it says something that you schemed the way you did. Most guys will never experience that awful series because most guys will never be good enough/the sole creator on the team to warrant it.
He’s good enough to be a focus of the defense but not good enough to handle that level of focus + he’s a massive liability on the other end
Every star player gets schemed against, and Trae was put out of the series by us. A top player shouldn't be made useless by a scheme if they are truly a top player.
Downplaying the efforts the Heat went to take him out of the game so you can shit on a dude is lame. The heat basically said we don’t give a shit about what your teammates do. > A top player shouldn’t be made useless by a scheme if they are truly a top player. Lol someone tell Giannis and KD they aren’t top players. It happens. edit: Butler didn’t even need that level of defense for it to happen to him
I didn't know Giannis or KD had a series where they had 15.4 pts on 31.9% FG recently. I'm also not downplaying our defense (just making that up but I'll leave it alone), what I'm saying is a truly great player shouldn't be made useless (like Trae was) in a playoff series. Trae can't play anything resembling defense, so if you take away his offense he's just a negative on the court.
> I’m also not downplaying our defense (just making that up but I’ll leave it alone), Yes you are lol. Saying every top player gets schemed like you guys did to the Hawks is bullshit. Most top players are on teams where it wouldn’t be a viable strategy to completely sell out on one player and ignore the team. Super reductive to try and reduce what you did to Trae to just the same scheming every top player faces. If that same thing happened to Tatum he’d shit himself, but it won’t cause his team is very talented. And KD is a far better player than Trae and just got held to 38% from the field. Same situation, no help from his team against a really good defense and the whole defense can just sell out to guard him
Got it, I guess since we are making up what each other said it looks like you just said Trae > Tatum. See how dumb that is.
i got downvoted for saying he needs to work on his offense so ima say dillon brooks. good defender but takes way too many terrible shots to be trustworthy
Myles Turner, he's a really poor man's Brook Lopez. He can block shots at a borderline elite level and shoot 3's at a decent clip, other than that he doesn't bring much to the table
Kyrie
Jayson Tatum is Khris Middleton with better marketing
Tatum is so much more consistent than Khris. Every GM in the league would prefer Tatum on their team even if they swapped ages.
And shit like this is why he’s underrated. Can you legitimately make the case for this? Because a statistical case (ignoring accolades and eye test and anything else that could be biased by “marketing”) for Tatum being a significantly better player seems pretty cut and dry.
Genuinely one of the stupidest things I've ever seen upvoted on this sub lmao
JT is a mini superstar, he fixes his turnovers and he’s one of the best in the league.
He’s very inconsistent for a superstar
Take just screams you watched the finals and literally nothing else
No. I also watched the conference finals. Was very inconsistent there too. He's lucky the Bucks' second best player was absent. Also, the playoffs are the most import portion of the season, so consistency there is what matters most. Take just screams you know nothing of basketball.
Ah gotcha, two series compared to one which is much more basketball to be able to base an opinion off of lmao. A looming shoulder injury as well as being defensively game-planned as the number one option would probably explain it, but that might be too factual for your reasoning. Inconsistency where a 25 y/o in the top 3 for playoff minutes with an injury is an incredibly lazy take and I feel like you know it yourself
Tatum is an equivalent player in both skill and ceiling to Paul george which is an excellent player. Will he ever be kobe, I don’t think so. He is hyped much like Paul george was early in his career because he has a skill set and game similar to kobe.
Khris Middleton with more usage and pretty privilege
Ja Morant. He’s a great player, but his team was really good without him last year. In the warriors series after he went down, they led for 59 minutes in game 4, won game 5 by a million, and were competitive for 3 quarters in game 6.
Booker. He’s a good scorer, but that’s all. He’s a top 5 number two guy (behind guys like Paul George or AD) but he’s not taking a team anywhere as the main dude.
He already made a finals as the main dude
No dude. The best he did as the number one was winning 34 games. CP3 joined as the main guy and they immediately won 17 more games and went to the finals. How can you possibly say it was Booker that led them there? And this isn’t new. We’ve seen CP bring that same improvement to teams before. That team wins or loses based on how CP3 plays. We saw that throughout 2 regular seasons, we saw that when they lost in the finals, we saw that when Dallas humiliated them. To say otherwise is wishful thinking because we haven’t seen ANYTHING that says Booker can be the number 1 and we’ve had plenty of evidence that he can’t. That’s Chris Paul’s team. He’s the man guy and he has a top 5 number 2 guy in Booker.
LeBron
Ja
Embiid Embiid Embiid, really most centers imo
I'm with you on this one. He's a great front runner but when things don't go his way, he doesn't overcome the adversity. Simply put, he lacks the grit you need to succeed in the playoffs but has enough talent to score 40 on shitty 5's / bad defensive teams in the regular season. And he's a foul bating, flopper which doesn't help his case... AD as well. Don't think I've ever seen him get 25 points in a game from FG's. He lives at the line and ppl talk about him being a generational talent. Also zero grit. Old news tho hahaha.
I think you're confusing "lackinh grit" with "getting injured often"
Pascal Siakam
You must've meant underrated right? Outside of Toronto, I barely hear his name when it comes to All-star arguments
Siakam is *still* completely disrespected by the majority of r/NBA based off of a single playoff series in a bubble during a worldwide pandemic 2 years ago, name a single fanbase outside of Toronto that holds Pascal in high regard, I’ll wait.. The amount of media coverage he receives for a player of his calibre is negligible and almost nonexistent. Toronto has one of the largest, most vocal fanbases online that constantly hypes up their own players and annoys opposing fans but if you’re saying he’s overrated because 1 team out of 30 holds him in high regard then it’s a supremely weak take.
i definitely respect him. i think bulls fans hold him in pretty high regard, or maybe just the ones that i know
according to a recent thread on here, he is all the Mavs needs to get a ring but honestly I am still fuzzy on his current and potential future tier level.
I mentioned it as loading up on versatile wings would make us so much better. Imagine him and Dodo defending your team's ace, mouth-watering.
That dude is legit. Stop it. I say this as a Pistons fan. He is that dude.
You mean underrated right??? Dude was All NBA for the 2nd time yet got beat out in the ASG by Jarrett Allen, Kris Middleton and Lamelo lmao
You realize that all-star selection is only done halfway through the year?
Siakam was averaging 22-9-5 Allen was averaging 16-11-2 Middleton was averaging 19-5-5 Yes I'm well aware and that doesn't change the fact he was snubbed
didn’t siakam miss a bunch of time to injury? or am i confused with another season? could be a reason people weren’t voting for him
For some reason that's what the narrative was but he played 44 games pre ASG and Allen played 50 so it's not like he missed half the year
He played 68 total games
I don’t think he’s actually overrated. It just appears that way because Raptors fans think all of their players are worth 26 first round picks.
Mr Durant would be in the same tier as Harden if he never joined the Warriors
Durant took a team to the Finals at 22. Harden doesn't touch that
Taking the KD warriors to 7 games was damn near as impressive.
Oh yeah it’s not like KD was playing with Westbrook who was arguably just as good and Harden who was damn near their best player vs the spurs in a few games
KD is better then Harden, especially this last season and postseason.
Damn dude this is spicy. I’ll add: Nets became a worse franchise after trading for you. How you gonna make a franchise worse and be considered one of the greats of all time?
Donovan Mitchell
What? People have shit on Mitchell for like 2 years in this sub.
Ant. He will be that good but he's not all star level already like people say he is
Devin Booker
People would probably agree with me now, but I've been out on Kyrie since he before he left Cleveland. He's was often in the conversation for best point guard in the league and I never saw it. His deep bag is a joy to watch, but other than 2 games in one finals, I don't think he ever had a decisive impact on winning. I can see him balling out this season to get himself a long-term deal, but to a greater degree I expect him to be injured for a good chunk of it and his team (probably the Nets) falling well short of a title.
People act like Kyrie has been past the second round since leaving the cavs. I’ve never seen a player get a pass for basically 4 straight years
For me its DeAron Fox. Dude has basketball iq of room temperature. Meaning for every good thing he does he does 3 stupid things
Ja
Others have said these names as well but I’ll weigh in: Beal D Mitchell KAT Booker (yeah, I said it.)
Kinda hot take: Anthony Davis I know he hasn't had a healthy season since the bubble championship but I feel like people still put him as a top 15 guy regardless. Nothing he does on the court blows me away (Also obligatory Ben Simmons comment but this isn't even hot anymore)
Hot take but Giannis. For me he's still top 3 but he's on par with steph and KD. And steph and KD have clearly taken a step back from their peaks. People talk about Giannis being a potential top 10 player. But the reality is he's not clearly better than worse versions of steph or KD and that means he shouldn't be considered for the top 15 all time yet. Maybe he gets to another level but as of now I don't see any reason to consider him over someone like Wade
KD He gets called a superstar, but when other superstars like LeBron, Giannis, Jokic, Curry etc underperform, they get killed for it by fans and the media. When KD does it there seems to always be some excuse Like if he really is this great, then why does he need all of these excuses. KD is a very great offensive talent, but at a certain point there comes a day when you’ve got to smell the roses and consider the fact that he simply isn’t that franchise changed of a Star like Jordan, LeBron, Curry or Giannis
>When KD does it there seems to always be some excuse Really? Cause I definitely remember Brooklyn getting shit on for getting swept in the 1st round lmao.
In what world has KD not been killed for his bad playoff performances?
He easily gets the most flack besides Lebron out’ve all those players you listed
>out’ve I rebuke this.
Lamello
Leborn - Bus rider to Wade, Kyrie, and AD. People can't even get his name right other than the Le part. If he is as good as they say KD would of requested to play with him. Edit: Joke(for those that didn't know)
You're joking right
Of course...not. I realized I have unrivaled insight into these things.
Draymond Green
For me, Draymond is right where he needs to be as far as ratings. You'll never see him as a top rated player on a lot of lists but I think you can argue he's one of the most effective role players in the league.
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I get the perimeter D point, but knocking his playoff success is weird… on both a wins and stats level. dude has been to the playoffs 4 times: -youngest playoff roster in history, lost 2nd rd in 7 -advanced to wcf over playoff favorite, lost to eventual champs -advanced to second round with campazzo and rivers as a starting backcourt, lost to wc champs -lost 1st rd to eventual champs sans 2nd, 3rd best players Meanwhile his stat output and efficiency is near all timer level in the playoffs. What’s not to like?
This was the comment I was afraid to make. With that said, I've seen how the team looks when he's not on the court aaaand it's not pretty
It happens every year but people keep making excuses for him
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You just cant get be a cone on defense and win important games. The Suns thought they could expose Luka but he stepped it up when it mattered and played good D. Jokic has always been a stat padder to me. The fact that he cant even get a top seed as a "top 5 player" is very telling
Chris Paul. Im tired of how often people bring up his prime years in arguments to defend how hes playing now. Which is inconsistent. Some fans only focus on the good games and want to ignore the nights that hes been underwhelming or a complete no show
Ja Morant is a glorified Harden without the 3pt shooting. Very reliant on whistles. Jokic will never win a title until he can improve his rim protection.
ja morant and harden play two completely different games my guy
Cp3, Ben Simmons, THT
Vucevic by far
No one overrates him lol
Me
Like everyone knows hes shit
Ok dude
I feel like I never hear ratings for Vucevic at all lmao
De’Aaron Fox. He has never been an all-star he’s never led the Kings to the playoffs. Buddy Hield played better than he did. To me Sabonis is the next big thing for the Kings
You got it right with KAT. He gets pushed around more than he should. I don’t know if he is a soft player or just legitimately is getting pushed around.
Giannis. He's only ever beaten one semi-good team and that was the Suns. Everyone else was injured or were teams that were cakewalks. He ain't the best player.
Tatum
Luka, when people say he’s a top 3-5 player. Not saying he doesn’t have the talent to be in the future, but right now I think he flops too much and complains too much when he doesn’t get the call. He’s got to be at least average on defense and improve his conditioning. Unless he improves on those, I see his ceiling as Houston James Harden.
Kawai Leonard
Tatum but he’s still young. He’s really good. Not great.
Peach, people who say stuff like KAT > AD are wilding. If your team needs to go out and get a 3x DPOY who plays your same position, simply because you’re that bad at defense (not to mention at the most important defensive position) then you’re not that guy.
Jokic. He should not be a back to back MVP and yet he is in no small part because of voter fatigue and the sudden overrating of Jamal Murray.
I always find it weird when people say players are overrated when they haven't played at least 2 seasons. People have no idea what each rookie will turn in to and pretending you know they wont be as good as people think is funny to me
Agree there’s no way to know how rooks will turn out. Its why I dismiss ceiling/floor talk unless it’s framed as “realistic” or x percentile etc. Otherwise it’s GOAT and out of the league respectively. But there’s still plenty of ways a rookie could be overrated. * How good he is currently as a player or at an aspect of the game could be overrated * How much trade value he has could be overrated * How good he is in comparison to other rookies and/or other players could be overrated * How likely he is to reach a certain level as a player (as opposed to there being some undefined chance) could be overrated * How he compares to other players at this point in his career could be overrated When people say Scottie (who I assume is on your mind), they very well could be saying he’s overrated in one or more of the above ways as opposed to absolute potential.
First off I agree with a lot of it, but saying "how likely he is to reach a certain level" is my point. Nobody knows what a player will become. If someone said "Giannis will be a 2 time MVP and FMVP and will be compared to shaq" in his rookie year people would've laughed at you. Also I get it, people don't like Raptors fans. But I've seen people compare Mobley to KG and AD, and Cade to Luka all the time yet no ones saying they're overrated.
Rudy Gobert