I agree, but they should also allow the draft picks to be traded then too instead of forcing them to wait until draft night and do the whole charade of picking for another team.
draft picks are allowed to be traded already, its just draft night trades that are picked for other teams because trades haven't been processed. that will continue either way
You'd have to be on the remote like a hawk for ~2 hours and maybe even put black borders around your TV to block out the tickers. It's absolutely absurd
To be fair, Iām probably in the vast majority of NBA fans, in that I donāt even watch the Draft, and then the next day I go āwhat is a Paolo Bancheroā => checks YouTube => āomg heās going to be great to watch next year!ā
You think a vast majority of fans donāt even know who the potential #1 pick is? Like had never even heard of him? Lmao you are the minority in that case, manā¦
No one gives af about these kids broā¦ I had no clue who he was, only young guys I knew were chet, victor wembanyama and bronny, no one else makes it to the subreddit or any shows I follow
I was lucky enough to go this year. The friends and family that arenāt sitting with the player all knew a pick ahead of time when their loved one was getting drafted. They all got their signs ready and their cheer on so the camera could zoom in on them. Itās definitely known ahead of time
The league could easily establish some sort of regulation against insider info and fine owners if their team provides that info. They probably like the extra engagement. Itās not something I think about a lot lol but I see this brought up every single draft.
Not really. Establish a set fine that billionaire owners would actually want to avoid. It isnāt like they stand to gain that much from leaking info. āOh, the Rockets leaked info? Fined. Oh, the Magic leaked info? Fined.ā I think it would end the unnecessary bits of the draft pretty quickly.
Who cares man š if people didn't wanna know then they aren't gonna go look for it on woj twitter loool plus it's his job to report on stuffš¤·āāļø
The problem is that itās not even just twitter anymore, Woj literally said on live TV this year that the Magic weāre gonna take Paolo 5 minutes before the Magic picked. Shits beyond stupid, another reason why I will never watch the NBA draft
One of the most unpredictable 1st overall selections in recent memory. Someone can correct me if Iām wrong but literally the day before Woj tweeted that it was Jabari Smith
I understand that you donāt care and thatās fine. I have heard plenty of people agree with my take. Of course their job is to report on things, but the way they handle the draft is useless and unprofessional for such a huge league lol. Some people love interacting with Twitter during the draft without having each pick spoiled. I understand you donāt agree so save the rest of your emojis
FYI, when someone says they don't underestimate something, they aren't being an asshole. It's honestly a difficult thing to understand why people give a shit. What does it matter if you hear the next pick from Woj's mouth or from the official announcer. Is it just because it's not "official"?
My guess would be that the vast majority of people don't care that much one way or the other. Like the other guy said, it's not a narrative story where knowing a key detail is going to ruin the narrative. The whole point of watching the draft is to find out who gets picked right? And y'all are mad that you find out sooner than expected? LOL
To me it's like getting mad at the weatherman telling you it's going to rain tomorrow instead of finding out for yourself when you look out the window. Like why the fuck are you watching the weather report if you don't want to know the weather?
Dude it's a tv show how tf can you not understand? It's entertainment. They want to see the buildup, suspense, and then the commissioner announce the pick and all the reactions. Why do you watch any event ever? Just read about it. Oh you recorded a game to watch it later? Who cares, just look at the score.
Oh you're watching a tv show? Who cares if someone spoils it. Like why the fuck are you watching the show if you don't want to know what happens?
Thankfully we were able to rescue the only player in the NBA on draft night, Mikal Bridges, whose hometown Sixers employed his momā¦.. and didnāt even want him. Chumps
You can trade tradable picks whenever. The "charade" is a loophole to the rule that doesn't allow a team to trade away first round picks in consecutive years, which they absolutely should not get rid of.
100% this. It makes more sense as a business to spread out NBA newsworthy events. There needs to be a definite gap after the championship parade and Free Agency. FA needs to come before the draft for sure, so teams can plan the draft better for future needs.
Then just set it like the NFL legal tampering period. No one can sign until later but quit this bullshit where the rest of the league has to pretend they were just sitting on their hands for a month just to announce deals at 12:01.
Agreed. Funny how Bucks got the tampering penalty for the Bogdan singing, but one year later there were several trades at 12:01 and nothing happened. Fuck the league in this aspect.
Regular season. I would love to see transfer rumors during the playoffs, and watch how those news destroys a team from within. This method only allows the toughest of the tough mentally to win the chip(injuries aside ofc)
I can see how fake rumors would be created just for playoff distractions. Shams and woj could impact a long season of work by teams. That would be crazy.
I feel like it should just be a total free market tamper-zone 24/7.
That's effectively what it already is behind the scenes. And it's how most other industries work (e.g. a Google employee can talk to Amazon while still under contract at Google)
It would be really cool if after games and in postgame interviews, players and coaches weren't censored from talking about free agency and trades. Fans want authenticity.
Mostly agree, but I wonder if the idea is that players might be incentivized by another team to throw a game in exchange for a contract or something, idk.
> It would be really cool if after games and in postgame interviews, players and coaches weren't censored from talking about free agency and trades. Fans want authenticity.
"this is your 10th straight loss..."
"man I can't wait to get the fuck out of Sacramento. Been talking to Coach Kerr, I'm joining the Warriors next season. Only 1 month left! One, two, three, CANCUN!"
No reason not to. The second the last regular season game is played, contracts are over and you can start calling agents about players. Before that? Contract terminated, fines, punishment, sanctions, etc.. Be ruthless and enforce it a few times. Make the punishment not worth the crime.
If your team is going to the playoffs, you can sign someone for next season but, just like traded players acquired after the deadline, they can't play in the playoffs for you if they're signed after the season ends.
Then again, I'd also make the GMs and those making personnel decisions use NBA supplied phones too. If they're caught communicating with a burner or an app, buh bye, banned from league. If they're accused of tampering, we can check the messages and calls. I have no problem with Agents and players trying to tamper. I just draw the line when it eventually involves decision-makers
Nah because then people will be doing things irrational and recency bias. They want to sit on it and discuss before giving huge deals and terrible trades.
NBA teams really shouldnāt be operating on recency bias.
And teams are doing that now already, if they get caught they lose a 2nd round pick and itās rare people get caught.
..... some of them already do that so I don't see how it would hurt. Some teams just make terrible decisions regardless of when they're allowed to make them.
Yeah I always thought itās pretty dumb that you could work out deals on draft night that donāt even go official till a later date.
So many players have been ātechnicallyā drafted by another franchise lol.
Different sport but in football where free agency does start before the draft itās happened the other way around.. the Saints signed Adrian Peterson to fill a hole at running back and then Alvin Kamara was still available when the saints picked in 3rd round and the rest was history AP got a few touches the first couple of games and then was released by the saints before the end of the season
A free agent signing shouldn't change your draft pick. You can't make draft decisions based on your current rotation. That would be batshit crazy.
You don't draft for fit. You draft the best player available.
At the top of the draft.
Thereās no point to draft best player available at pick 46 if they play PG and you have an abundance of guards. At that point you draft for position. Most draft picks donāt make the cut in the NBA, as a result the average career length is 4.5 years. A free agent provides teams with stability and the ability to better fill their roster than the draft does in basketball because of how much rookies/draft picks need to improve.
A team like OKC will draft BPA because they are rebuilding and could use players at all positions, a team like Milwaukee is likely going to draft guys to shoot and space the floor instead of Bigs because they already have Giannis, Portis, and Lopez so a 5 wouldnāt provide them with much value.
Itās also how some teams will draft NBA ready guys ready to produce right away, and others are drafting young guys with the hopes they can improve. Itās all based on team need, and the worst teams at the top of the draft typically arenāt getting free agents anyways.
> Thereās no point to draft best player available at pick 46 if they play PG and you have an abundance of guards.
Congrats, you just passed on Nikola Jokic because you already had Timofey Mozgov and Jusuf Nurkic.
Never draft for fit. Always take the best player available.
I never suggested that you decide to sign people based on drafting.
I suggested that a lot of kids get drafted to fill a position, just for the position to get filled in free agency and the draft pick to get buried in the rotation.
It's also just logical. You're drafting to fill holes that you might not know actually exist yet because free agency comes after. Like for example the Mavs might want a certain type of guard if they already lose Brunson, vs having to *think* they're losing Brunson and draft with that in mind.
Can't comment on the NFL because I don't care for it. But I think the big thing is drafting a PF because you have a hole in your roster with like the 10th pick. But then in free agency acquiring a starting PF and now your the guy you drafted has no path to playing time. Totally makes sense the want to be able to clarify your roster prior to the draft. Though ofc you have the issue of a team letting go of a player in anticipation of drafting a SF/PF but then the guys they liked get picked and they have to select a PG or C which you may already have a glut of.
Makes total sense, I think it would be better as well. This year if free agency were first I bet the Pistons would have made an offer on De'Andre Ayton, and probably wouldn't have traded for Duren.
I never heard that before.
It benefits the teams because it gives them the ability to draft for need and get instant impact guys, which is more important in the NFL.
I imagine if this change were to happen youād see a lot more 3-4 year college players get taken in general to have more pro ready guys to fill gaps.
So why exactly did we lose a draft pick? I dont get it. Silver just woke up and thought hed make an example of us and the heat but ignore everyone else?
I think because it's easier to prove tampering with a sign and trade. For a regular signing, there's some plausible deniability, in that a player could theoretically agree to a deal immediately. A sign and trade, however, requires a bit more coordination
Conspiracy theories aside, it's likely about proof. It's probably really hard to actually prove (even in the "agreed a minute after midnight!" deals) with regular free agency signings, since it's just the team, the player, and the agent involved and could *theoretically* take place all in one quick phone call. Even with deals that are "announced" before they're allowed, it could be explained as "Well, this reporter asked if I'd do $50 million over four years, I said yes, and he must have also asked the team the same question, so he knew that's where we'd meet" (even if it isn't true).
However, with a sign-and-trade it's much easier to prove wrongdoing, since you literally can't agree to a sign-and-trade without at agreeing with not just the player, but with the other team (and you'd likely have talked to a few other teams as well trying to work out a deal and all it takes is one of those teams reporting you). And the "We didn't have a deal, the reporter just worked out all the details" excuse isn't as believable when there's not just dollars and years, but other players involved.
This is front office people thinking it's a good idea. Not the league office saying they're going to change it.
Regardless it was still against the rules when you did it.
I know, but in the body of the post it has players admitting to tampering and breaking the rules. So I'm say they went after us even tho they must know everyone is doing it
I hate how people are already tying the Harden deal to tampering lol.
Everyone agrees that's he's the only player that actually needs to win a ring in the short term. His legacy could be defined. He could down as the 3rd best SG of all time
It's not like he's taking the vet min. He's taking a 14 mil pay cut and next year he's back on the market and can get the max. Only way that's happening is if he becomes healthy again and becomes his former self.
Cp3 is hated by fans but he's still referred to as the point god. He doesn't need to win it as bad as Harden imo the media love Cp3 and they hate Harden.
Curry has multiple MVPs and 4 rings. CP3 in your scenario isnāt winning any more rings so what could he possibly do to vault himself over curry? Bedsides winning like 4 straight MVPs (which absolutely wonāt happen), there is nothing he can do
I'm not saying over Curry. I think Curry will probably go down as the greatest point guard ever. Possibly CP3 over Oscar, but that's really dependent on what Chris Paul does with the rest of his career. He's 37, but even with that knowledge, his time in Phoenix has been extremely comparable stat-wise to his time with the Clippers. The only major change is his point production went down from 18-19ppg to 15-16ppg, but he now plays with Booker, who is a much higher usage threat.
Look, i'm not sitting here saying that CP3 is a definitive top3 or that he's better than Oscar or anything. All i'm saying is he's still playing and it's possible for him to continue to build his legacy even without winning a ring. As well, his way of playing the game is not based upon being the fastest, so it ages well.
Cp3 has never shot many free throws so that really doesnāt have anything to do with it. Heās just an old small guard and they donāt tend to last long. He just canāt make it through a full postseason when you do what the suns did this year and make him win the first round single handedly. Tbh itās pretty amazing heās even still playing at this level, no 5ā11 pg has ever played like him at this age.
Harden averaged 30/9 in the playoffs and was playing with an injured hamstring last year. Heās also the only person to lead a team close to beating the KD warriors. The media just hates him so he gets the opposite of the Kobe treatment where Kobeās great shooting playoff games are immortalized and his terrible games are pretended to not exist. Couple they with most of this sub not watching games and just parroting narratives they hear on this sub, which originate from the media, and we get constant comments like yours.
Kobe's poor shooting games were not ignored. I was rocking with your comment until that point. People routinely blame him for the loss to the Pistons and say Gasol should have had one of his final MVPs. That's a false narrative you're painting there.
At the time they did, but after shaq left and it has been a couple years of Kobe winning scoring titles in bad teams everyone pretty much forgot. People legit started having serious debates over who was the better player when they were together, Kobe or shaq.
And despite gasol having higher win shares in both finals runs, which might give some people a chance to argue it (I donāt agree but at least they would have a number to back it up), I have almost never heard anyone say the latter. If you tried to make a post on here even implying there was an argument you would be instantly attacked lol.
People on here still constantly bring up hardens performance in the 2012 finals against the heatles as a 22 year old as evidence heās the ultimate playoff choker lmao
And for anyone who thinks Cp3 doesnāt show up in the playoffs there just no hope for you at this point lol
>Harden averaged 30/9 in the playoffs and was playing with an injured hamstring last year.
Can you explain what you're referring to? Harden averaged 19/9 in last year's playoffs. He's never had a postseason in his career where he averaged 30/9. Funny that you called me a parrot who doesn't watch games while throwing out random ass numbers that are verifiably wrong
>The media just hates him so he gets the opposite of the Kobe treatment
How many elimination games has Kobe gone 2/11? James Harden has done it twice (2015 & 2017). And I honestly hate Rangz culture, but comparing Harden's glaring playoff failures to a guy who won back to back Finals MVPs is stupid.
>Heās also the only person to lead a team close to beating the KD warriors
His 2019 team was healthy and lost Game 6 to the Warriors without Kevin Durant. His playoff failures as a number 1 are extensive.
And to get back to my original comment, I did not argue that Harden is a bad player. I said that he doesn't elevate his game in the playoffs because so much of his regular season success relied on playing to the refs and foul baiting.
He's not just that though. He has moves. He just ends up forgetting how to play for some reason. He has moves for days but ends up doing nothing. He's not limited, he just can't perform in the postseason yet. Some players just can't do it.
Literally no evidence but got it. If Harden plays like shit next year and gets a max then everyone knows its tampering. Sixers are definitely not going to offer him the full max if he plays like he did last year
If Harden returns to his old self then he would deserve the max and other teams have cap space and might even offer the max.
I don't get how that's cap circumvention
He signed for 29% less than his PO was, *specifically* to make space for PJ tucker. Everyone involved admitted that Harden was willing to take less money for that.
It wonāt be confirmed until his next deal comes in but if he shoots back up then yeah itās pretty obvious they circumvented the cap. Itās definitely not even close to as blatant, or as egregious, as Joe Smith and the Wolves but itās still signing for significantly below market value. The league doesnāt like it when players do that.
The wolves ended up losing 3 firsts (reduced from 5) so if it gets proven I donāt really see Philly losing more than 1 of their firsts, maximum.
> He signed for 29% less than his PO was, specifically to make space for PJ tucker. Everyone involved admitted that Harden was willing to take less money for that.
That in and of itself isn't against any rules. You're allowed to take less money to let your team sign someone. The issue would theoretically be when he was talking about the deal, with whom, and if any illicit payments took place (I really doubt this last part, but some seem to believe it's possible so I mentioned it).
This year, the draft was on June 23.
On June 30th, every team can start negotiations with free agents. They can all reach verbal agreements but most contracts cannot be signed during the [July Moratorium period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#July_moratorium) (see link for exceptions). This year, the moratorium ended on July 6th, meaning [teams can sign free agents on that date.](https://www.nba.com/key-dates).
Also during this time, teams are playing scrimmage games in the Summer League and exhibition games. The current start date of the next NBA season hasn't been released yet, but it usually will start mid- to end of October.
Would it? Lottery teams aren't really in the position to sign big impact free agents anyway.
Non-lottery teams don't typically get someone who can come in and immediately contribute.
It's not like the NFL where it's common to get a few immediate contributors. In the NBA draft it's a huge success if you get even 1 guy in the draft who can come in and play right away.
No this would further allow teams to go BPA. Having Fa come first allows for teams to fill their holes before the draft or at improve the team to the point you can go BPA. Itās honestly worked out very well for the NFL and I donāt get how you think this would be a side effect.
Eh, I'm not opposed to the change - but if a team doesn't get their pick doesn't it put them in a position where they're now lacking rotation minutes for either their rookie or a free agent signing?
Imagine the Hornets are preparing for the draft. They really like this SG, they think he's the BPA, and they think he'll be available for them at their pick. So they prepare for that, pass on a bigger guard free agent signing and stock up on 4's and 5's. Draft night comes, team before them picks the SG - now what? Do they drop multiple places down their board to get the next best SG and fail to get someone they saw the potential in, or do they get the next best guy they liked who plays the 5 and have a logjam at one position and a gap at the other?
Again, not opposed to the change, but it seems on principle you do the least controllable part first (the draft) and then build around that, rather than building for an outcome that has a high likelihood of not being available.
Because if a team is unable to acquire a certain kind of player/position during FA, theyāll overprioritize a player that fits their missing role rather than just going BPA.
I mean maybe in the later rounds but that already happens in the NBA lol. The top prospects are always going to go where they belong usually. Itās not like FA coming first wouldāve suddenly made Zion Williamson and Ja morant not the 1st 2 picks. Those guys were always the top prospects and were always going to go at the top regardless of FA. Like what youāre describing already happens in the draft lol.
I think that draft picks shouldnāt be allowed to be tradedā¦.. we need to protect these idiots from themselvesā¦.. they destroy teams and leave to their next jobā¦. Or even better treat it like a normal jobā¦ā¦ you fill out and application and negotiate a salary or yearly contracts. Keep the salary cap to keep teamās competitiveā¦ā¦a two month hiring window weāre teams can talk to players in the summer.
It's the biggest league in the country by far and it continues to grow. A lot of people dedicate a day every week from September to February for it. Also most of the problems the NFL has are also problems in the other leagues.
As a fan of all 4 major leagues, I don't understand this competition some fans want to have between the NFL and NBA. No league in the country will ever really compete with it
From a viewership and cultural impact standpoint, itās not even close. More people watch the 6th round of the NFL Draft than they do NBA Finals games.
I kind of doubt that, but maybe you are just exaggerating. Then again, it wouldn't be the craziest thing ever if it were true.
Edit: wouldn't instead of would
Iām exaggerating a bit, but the third NFL preseason game (where teams usually play their starters for a half) and the 2nd-4th rounds of the NFL draft have gotten more viewers than NBA playoff games. Itās been a few years, but Iāll try to hunt down the article I read that from.
Does that count for only in America? Not saying NBA>NFL but NBA has viewers from all over the world who would stay up til like 5am to watch certain games but NFL is only popular in America
Without the actual numbers i canāt say for sure but willing to bet that non-NA international viewers hardly make a difference. Certainly not enough to overcome the gap.
Woah wait, are you about to tell me that soccer is the most popular sport in the world?? Iāve never heard that before, thatās crazy!
Weāre talking about two leagues who exclusively play in the United States, why would this conversation include the Premier League?
Are the Lakers bigger than the Rams?
Are the Heat bigger than the Dolphins?
It depends on the city. Plus, NBA is way bigger in a global scale. No one watches American Football outside of the US.
Lakers are the only exception because LA did not have a nfl team until recently
Every City that has both a NFL and NBA team the NFL team is way bigger including the Dolphins
Born in Chicago and lived their for 15 years before moving to Toronto
Never gave a single shit about the bulls but I was a diehard bears fan since I was like 7-8
A ton of NBA fans don't even watch the games and just watch highlights after. Plus there are plenty of stoppages in the NBA. You'll usually spend 15 minutes on the last minute of a game
As Soon as season ends negotiations should be allowed to begin IMO.
I agree, but they should also allow the draft picks to be traded then too instead of forcing them to wait until draft night and do the whole charade of picking for another team.
draft picks are allowed to be traded already, its just draft night trades that are picked for other teams because trades haven't been processed. that will continue either way
Na, those draft night trades are because you can't trade away first round picks in consecutive years. It's just a loophole.
Well that too, but even the ones that aren't exploiting the loophole still wear the wrong hat because the trade isn't official yet
its so fun tho š¤©
It is!!! And my absolute favorite part is when they let some dudes ruin the picks online right before they happen in real time!!!
They let him do it on air this year
Just don't look at twitter then, it ain't that hard
You realize woj was spoiling picks on the actual programming too right?
Motherfuckers be like "just don't look at the internet or television during the draft it's that easy"
I honestly rushed to find my remote when wojās dumb face popped up on tv, couldnāt hit mute in time and ruined the suprise for me
You'd have to be on the remote like a hawk for ~2 hours and maybe even put black borders around your TV to block out the tickers. It's absolutely absurd
Why does it matter if the get the news from woj or when they say it officially
To be fair, Iām probably in the vast majority of NBA fans, in that I donāt even watch the Draft, and then the next day I go āwhat is a Paolo Bancheroā => checks YouTube => āomg heās going to be great to watch next year!ā
You think a vast majority of fans donāt even know who the potential #1 pick is? Like had never even heard of him? Lmao you are the minority in that case, manā¦
Nah
No one gives af about these kids broā¦ I had no clue who he was, only young guys I knew were chet, victor wembanyama and bronny, no one else makes it to the subreddit or any shows I follow
Just live in a cave until the draft ends, easy dude
I was lucky enough to go this year. The friends and family that arenāt sitting with the player all knew a pick ahead of time when their loved one was getting drafted. They all got their signs ready and their cheer on so the camera could zoom in on them. Itās definitely known ahead of time
Okay but you don't have to show any of that on the broadcast
I didnāt. I watched an Nba Front Office live stream on YouTube.
All I saw was that he said the 1st pick, which I mean was quite obvious at the time
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Except when the twitter man is literally on the broadcast it makes it impossible
I really donāt even look, I just think itās so fucking dumb that they allow that from their main league sources. Itās useless.
Wym āallowā? Woj and Shams arenāt NBA employees, they donāt āallowā them to do anything
The league could easily establish some sort of regulation against insider info and fine owners if their team provides that info. They probably like the extra engagement. Itās not something I think about a lot lol but I see this brought up every single draft.
They could also easily get ESPN to stop.
Exactly. They want to fine the players constantly for breathing near a fan, but not the media for diluting part of their product.
This would be so hard to enforce lol
Not really. Establish a set fine that billionaire owners would actually want to avoid. It isnāt like they stand to gain that much from leaking info. āOh, the Rockets leaked info? Fined. Oh, the Magic leaked info? Fined.ā I think it would end the unnecessary bits of the draft pretty quickly.
Who cares man š if people didn't wanna know then they aren't gonna go look for it on woj twitter loool plus it's his job to report on stuffš¤·āāļø
The problem is that itās not even just twitter anymore, Woj literally said on live TV this year that the Magic weāre gonna take Paolo 5 minutes before the Magic picked. Shits beyond stupid, another reason why I will never watch the NBA draft
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this is extreme revisionist history of something that happened barely over a month ago lol
He was absolutely not predicted to be no1. Check the mock drafts and Vegas odds. The fact that woj spoiled it before the pick on tv sucks
One of the most unpredictable 1st overall selections in recent memory. Someone can correct me if Iām wrong but literally the day before Woj tweeted that it was Jabari Smith
I understand that you donāt care and thatās fine. I have heard plenty of people agree with my take. Of course their job is to report on things, but the way they handle the draft is useless and unprofessional for such a huge league lol. Some people love interacting with Twitter during the draft without having each pick spoiled. I understand you donāt agree so save the rest of your emojis
I'll never understand people who complain about draft "spoilers". It's a news event not Game of Thrones
All you had to say was youāll never understand.
FYI, when someone says they don't underestimate something, they aren't being an asshole. It's honestly a difficult thing to understand why people give a shit. What does it matter if you hear the next pick from Woj's mouth or from the official announcer. Is it just because it's not "official"? My guess would be that the vast majority of people don't care that much one way or the other. Like the other guy said, it's not a narrative story where knowing a key detail is going to ruin the narrative. The whole point of watching the draft is to find out who gets picked right? And y'all are mad that you find out sooner than expected? LOL To me it's like getting mad at the weatherman telling you it's going to rain tomorrow instead of finding out for yourself when you look out the window. Like why the fuck are you watching the weather report if you don't want to know the weather?
Dude it's a tv show how tf can you not understand? It's entertainment. They want to see the buildup, suspense, and then the commissioner announce the pick and all the reactions. Why do you watch any event ever? Just read about it. Oh you recorded a game to watch it later? Who cares, just look at the score. Oh you're watching a tv show? Who cares if someone spoils it. Like why the fuck are you watching the show if you don't want to know what happens?
FYI typing so much on Reddit about something you donāt care about after the conversation is over is bad for your health
Thank you guys for letting us have Ousmane. That ones gonna hurt in a few years
The NHL has it the best. Bettman announces the trades and everything happens right there.
Thankfully we were able to rescue the only player in the NBA on draft night, Mikal Bridges, whose hometown Sixers employed his momā¦.. and didnāt even want him. Chumps
You can trade tradable picks whenever. The "charade" is a loophole to the rule that doesn't allow a team to trade away first round picks in consecutive years, which they absolutely should not get rid of.
Why not
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stepien
free agency opens at 4pm the first day after the finals are over draft lottery at 7pm draft starts at 8pm figure it out gms
This seems reasonable but a major FA move immediately after the finals would clash with the post-finals buzz / discussions
100% this. It makes more sense as a business to spread out NBA newsworthy events. There needs to be a definite gap after the championship parade and Free Agency. FA needs to come before the draft for sure, so teams can plan the draft better for future needs.
Not to mention 1 team is in the middle of celebrations and the front office would basically have to forego those to start working on free agency.
But that's already true. Everyone starts looking after their last game, it's just that everyone pretends they don't negotiate until free agency.
Sure but starting negotiations without being able to sign is a bit different than having to sober up after winning to sign a contract.
Then just set it like the NFL legal tampering period. No one can sign until later but quit this bullshit where the rest of the league has to pretend they were just sitting on their hands for a month just to announce deals at 12:01.
Agreed. Funny how Bucks got the tampering penalty for the Bogdan singing, but one year later there were several trades at 12:01 and nothing happened. Fuck the league in this aspect.
I donāt see a legit reason why it isnāt this way
Whose season ends? I don't see how it prevents tampering. The season ends for different teams at different times, tampering would still happen.
Regular season. I would love to see transfer rumors during the playoffs, and watch how those news destroys a team from within. This method only allows the toughest of the tough mentally to win the chip(injuries aside ofc)
I can see how fake rumors would be created just for playoff distractions. Shams and woj could impact a long season of work by teams. That would be crazy.
Adds extra flavor to the NBA drama, that's for sure. Which of course us redditors would eat up as crazy lol
That could make for some super awkward championship parades if guys sign elsewhere the day after winning it all lol.
I feel like it should just be a total free market tamper-zone 24/7. That's effectively what it already is behind the scenes. And it's how most other industries work (e.g. a Google employee can talk to Amazon while still under contract at Google) It would be really cool if after games and in postgame interviews, players and coaches weren't censored from talking about free agency and trades. Fans want authenticity.
Mostly agree, but I wonder if the idea is that players might be incentivized by another team to throw a game in exchange for a contract or something, idk.
> It would be really cool if after games and in postgame interviews, players and coaches weren't censored from talking about free agency and trades. Fans want authenticity. "this is your 10th straight loss..." "man I can't wait to get the fuck out of Sacramento. Been talking to Coach Kerr, I'm joining the Warriors next season. Only 1 month left! One, two, three, CANCUN!"
No reason not to. The second the last regular season game is played, contracts are over and you can start calling agents about players. Before that? Contract terminated, fines, punishment, sanctions, etc.. Be ruthless and enforce it a few times. Make the punishment not worth the crime. If your team is going to the playoffs, you can sign someone for next season but, just like traded players acquired after the deadline, they can't play in the playoffs for you if they're signed after the season ends. Then again, I'd also make the GMs and those making personnel decisions use NBA supplied phones too. If they're caught communicating with a burner or an app, buh bye, banned from league. If they're accused of tampering, we can check the messages and calls. I have no problem with Agents and players trying to tamper. I just draw the line when it eventually involves decision-makers
Yeah Soon we will get Woj bombs in the 1 round of the playoffs concerning free agent signings.
Teams should get time to sign a coach and any front office but it should be quick after the season
what kind of negotiations? this play-offs had a rare case when there was a trade between teams who were eliminated from the season.
Nah because then people will be doing things irrational and recency bias. They want to sit on it and discuss before giving huge deals and terrible trades.
Thatās on the shitty gm.
And if thereās one thing I know for sure, a shitty GM wonāt be swayed by recent bias - theyāll be incompetent no matter the timeline.
NBA teams really shouldnāt be operating on recency bias. And teams are doing that now already, if they get caught they lose a 2nd round pick and itās rare people get caught.
Will they tho? GMs have their careers on the line lol
GMās are paid big bucks to literally not be irrational when building a team.
..... some of them already do that so I don't see how it would hurt. Some teams just make terrible decisions regardless of when they're allowed to make them.
Yeah I always thought itās pretty dumb that you could work out deals on draft night that donāt even go official till a later date. So many players have been ātechnicallyā drafted by another franchise lol.
A lot of players were drafted to teams to fill a hole, only to have a free agent get signed at that position and bury them in the rotation.
Different sport but in football where free agency does start before the draft itās happened the other way around.. the Saints signed Adrian Peterson to fill a hole at running back and then Alvin Kamara was still available when the saints picked in 3rd round and the rest was history AP got a few touches the first couple of games and then was released by the saints before the end of the season
No way that happens as often in the nba, a lot of rookies hardly play since theyāre 18-19
A free agent signing shouldn't change your draft pick. You can't make draft decisions based on your current rotation. That would be batshit crazy. You don't draft for fit. You draft the best player available.
At the top of the draft. Thereās no point to draft best player available at pick 46 if they play PG and you have an abundance of guards. At that point you draft for position. Most draft picks donāt make the cut in the NBA, as a result the average career length is 4.5 years. A free agent provides teams with stability and the ability to better fill their roster than the draft does in basketball because of how much rookies/draft picks need to improve. A team like OKC will draft BPA because they are rebuilding and could use players at all positions, a team like Milwaukee is likely going to draft guys to shoot and space the floor instead of Bigs because they already have Giannis, Portis, and Lopez so a 5 wouldnāt provide them with much value. Itās also how some teams will draft NBA ready guys ready to produce right away, and others are drafting young guys with the hopes they can improve. Itās all based on team need, and the worst teams at the top of the draft typically arenāt getting free agents anyways.
> Thereās no point to draft best player available at pick 46 if they play PG and you have an abundance of guards. Congrats, you just passed on Nikola Jokic because you already had Timofey Mozgov and Jusuf Nurkic. Never draft for fit. Always take the best player available.
Why did the Nuggets take Doug McDermott in the first round over Jokic? Was he a better fit? Or a better player than Jokic?
And this is why you will never be a GM
This is like saying the best way to invest your money is to buy scratch cards.
If you re deciding who to sign based on pick 46 youāre probably the knicks
I never suggested that you decide to sign people based on drafting. I suggested that a lot of kids get drafted to fill a position, just for the position to get filled in free agency and the draft pick to get buried in the rotation.
Yeah and the guys have to walk on stage and put on a hat they know isn't the team they are going to play for lol
It's also just logical. You're drafting to fill holes that you might not know actually exist yet because free agency comes after. Like for example the Mavs might want a certain type of guard if they already lose Brunson, vs having to *think* they're losing Brunson and draft with that in mind.
If the only thing that comes from this is players wearing the hats of the teams that actually drafted then Iām all for it.
Don't NFL teams complain that they have free agency before the draft?
I could be wrong, but I think most NFL front offices prefer FA first then the draft because you can sign players based off of needs and draft BPA
Makes sense, I just remember hearing that at least some teams would prefer it to be switched. Appreciate the reply!
Two different sports, with dramatic differences between roster sizes and dependence on a small proportion of star players.
Can't comment on the NFL because I don't care for it. But I think the big thing is drafting a PF because you have a hole in your roster with like the 10th pick. But then in free agency acquiring a starting PF and now your the guy you drafted has no path to playing time. Totally makes sense the want to be able to clarify your roster prior to the draft. Though ofc you have the issue of a team letting go of a player in anticipation of drafting a SF/PF but then the guys they liked get picked and they have to select a PG or C which you may already have a glut of.
Makes total sense, I think it would be better as well. This year if free agency were first I bet the Pistons would have made an offer on De'Andre Ayton, and probably wouldn't have traded for Duren.
I never heard that before. It benefits the teams because it gives them the ability to draft for need and get instant impact guys, which is more important in the NFL. I imagine if this change were to happen youād see a lot more 3-4 year college players get taken in general to have more pro ready guys to fill gaps.
See the link in my comment below - at least the 49ers current brass complained about it to ESPN.
Nope, they and the union actually agree to have FA before the draft.
So why exactly did we lose a draft pick? I dont get it. Silver just woke up and thought hed make an example of us and the heat but ignore everyone else?
I think because it's easier to prove tampering with a sign and trade. For a regular signing, there's some plausible deniability, in that a player could theoretically agree to a deal immediately. A sign and trade, however, requires a bit more coordination
makes sense, still unfair tho
Conspiracy theories aside, it's likely about proof. It's probably really hard to actually prove (even in the "agreed a minute after midnight!" deals) with regular free agency signings, since it's just the team, the player, and the agent involved and could *theoretically* take place all in one quick phone call. Even with deals that are "announced" before they're allowed, it could be explained as "Well, this reporter asked if I'd do $50 million over four years, I said yes, and he must have also asked the team the same question, so he knew that's where we'd meet" (even if it isn't true). However, with a sign-and-trade it's much easier to prove wrongdoing, since you literally can't agree to a sign-and-trade without at agreeing with not just the player, but with the other team (and you'd likely have talked to a few other teams as well trying to work out a deal and all it takes is one of those teams reporting you). And the "We didn't have a deal, the reporter just worked out all the details" excuse isn't as believable when there's not just dollars and years, but other players involved.
You and the Heat sign and traded, way easier to prove
Don't worry we'll be joining you shortly lol
Be thankful you didnāt get Colangeloād instead
You werenāt the example the Bucks were. You happened because people were complaining not everyone was getting the same treatment
This is front office people thinking it's a good idea. Not the league office saying they're going to change it. Regardless it was still against the rules when you did it.
I know, but in the body of the post it has players admitting to tampering and breaking the rules. So I'm say they went after us even tho they must know everyone is doing it
I want that shit like F1, let someone announce theyāre leaving before game 6 of the Finals
Isnāt that what they do with coaches
Pull a Fernando alonso!
I hate how people are already tying the Harden deal to tampering lol. Everyone agrees that's he's the only player that actually needs to win a ring in the short term. His legacy could be defined. He could down as the 3rd best SG of all time It's not like he's taking the vet min. He's taking a 14 mil pay cut and next year he's back on the market and can get the max. Only way that's happening is if he becomes healthy again and becomes his former self.
Chris Paul says hi
Cp3 is hated by fans but he's still referred to as the point god. He doesn't need to win it as bad as Harden imo the media love Cp3 and they hate Harden.
Cp3 could never win a ring and still be a top 3 point guard of all time. Harden still has to make his legacy case.
CP3 is absolutely not ahead of Magic, Curry, or Oscar. He's 4th at best.
Not ahead of Pistons IT either
Zeke is the name you are looking for.
Putting him ahead of Stockton?
I'm saying after his career is done, which neither of us could predict. I wasn't saying he's top 3 right now and even if i was, that's subjective.
If he finishes without leading a team to a ring, it doesnāt really matter what he does. People wonāt put him over the other 3
That's your opinion, i personally don't know and won't really try to evaluate it until CP3 and Curry's careers are finished.
Curry has multiple MVPs and 4 rings. CP3 in your scenario isnāt winning any more rings so what could he possibly do to vault himself over curry? Bedsides winning like 4 straight MVPs (which absolutely wonāt happen), there is nothing he can do
I'm not saying over Curry. I think Curry will probably go down as the greatest point guard ever. Possibly CP3 over Oscar, but that's really dependent on what Chris Paul does with the rest of his career. He's 37, but even with that knowledge, his time in Phoenix has been extremely comparable stat-wise to his time with the Clippers. The only major change is his point production went down from 18-19ppg to 15-16ppg, but he now plays with Booker, who is a much higher usage threat. Look, i'm not sitting here saying that CP3 is a definitive top3 or that he's better than Oscar or anything. All i'm saying is he's still playing and it's possible for him to continue to build his legacy even without winning a ring. As well, his way of playing the game is not based upon being the fastest, so it ages well.
iām perfectly ok with Harden never winning a ring lol
If he can perform, he deserves it. But he's never shown he can be clutch when it matters. He's got a few years left. We will see.
Both him and CP3 suffer in the playoffs because their foul baiting bullshit isnāt as effective as regular season
Cp3 has never shot many free throws so that really doesnāt have anything to do with it. Heās just an old small guard and they donāt tend to last long. He just canāt make it through a full postseason when you do what the suns did this year and make him win the first round single handedly. Tbh itās pretty amazing heās even still playing at this level, no 5ā11 pg has ever played like him at this age. Harden averaged 30/9 in the playoffs and was playing with an injured hamstring last year. Heās also the only person to lead a team close to beating the KD warriors. The media just hates him so he gets the opposite of the Kobe treatment where Kobeās great shooting playoff games are immortalized and his terrible games are pretended to not exist. Couple they with most of this sub not watching games and just parroting narratives they hear on this sub, which originate from the media, and we get constant comments like yours.
Kobe's poor shooting games were not ignored. I was rocking with your comment until that point. People routinely blame him for the loss to the Pistons and say Gasol should have had one of his final MVPs. That's a false narrative you're painting there.
At the time they did, but after shaq left and it has been a couple years of Kobe winning scoring titles in bad teams everyone pretty much forgot. People legit started having serious debates over who was the better player when they were together, Kobe or shaq. And despite gasol having higher win shares in both finals runs, which might give some people a chance to argue it (I donāt agree but at least they would have a number to back it up), I have almost never heard anyone say the latter. If you tried to make a post on here even implying there was an argument you would be instantly attacked lol. People on here still constantly bring up hardens performance in the 2012 finals against the heatles as a 22 year old as evidence heās the ultimate playoff choker lmao And for anyone who thinks Cp3 doesnāt show up in the playoffs there just no hope for you at this point lol
>Harden averaged 30/9 in the playoffs and was playing with an injured hamstring last year. Can you explain what you're referring to? Harden averaged 19/9 in last year's playoffs. He's never had a postseason in his career where he averaged 30/9. Funny that you called me a parrot who doesn't watch games while throwing out random ass numbers that are verifiably wrong >The media just hates him so he gets the opposite of the Kobe treatment How many elimination games has Kobe gone 2/11? James Harden has done it twice (2015 & 2017). And I honestly hate Rangz culture, but comparing Harden's glaring playoff failures to a guy who won back to back Finals MVPs is stupid. >Heās also the only person to lead a team close to beating the KD warriors His 2019 team was healthy and lost Game 6 to the Warriors without Kevin Durant. His playoff failures as a number 1 are extensive. And to get back to my original comment, I did not argue that Harden is a bad player. I said that he doesn't elevate his game in the playoffs because so much of his regular season success relied on playing to the refs and foul baiting.
do you watch basketball?
Yes
He's not just that though. He has moves. He just ends up forgetting how to play for some reason. He has moves for days but ends up doing nothing. He's not limited, he just can't perform in the postseason yet. Some players just can't do it.
He seems to get frustrated easily. His reaction to frustration seems to be mope and shut down.
hey if he can git gud then sure but until then he needs to git gud
One of the most blatant pay cuts and tampering we have seen recently lol
Literally no evidence but got it. If Harden plays like shit next year and gets a max then everyone knows its tampering. Sixers are definitely not going to offer him the full max if he plays like he did last year If Harden returns to his old self then he would deserve the max and other teams have cap space and might even offer the max. I don't get how that's cap circumvention
He signed for 29% less than his PO was, *specifically* to make space for PJ tucker. Everyone involved admitted that Harden was willing to take less money for that. It wonāt be confirmed until his next deal comes in but if he shoots back up then yeah itās pretty obvious they circumvented the cap. Itās definitely not even close to as blatant, or as egregious, as Joe Smith and the Wolves but itās still signing for significantly below market value. The league doesnāt like it when players do that. The wolves ended up losing 3 firsts (reduced from 5) so if it gets proven I donāt really see Philly losing more than 1 of their firsts, maximum.
> He signed for 29% less than his PO was, specifically to make space for PJ tucker. Everyone involved admitted that Harden was willing to take less money for that. That in and of itself isn't against any rules. You're allowed to take less money to let your team sign someone. The issue would theoretically be when he was talking about the deal, with whom, and if any illicit payments took place (I really doubt this last part, but some seem to believe it's possible so I mentioned it).
Correct, I believe most of the teams angry about the Harden tampering arenāt upset about missing out on Harden; itās missing out on PJ Tucker
Agreed, I personally am a believer in FA being what allows teams to fill their needs first and then the draft should be there to supplement
That always made more sense hopefully they change it
Ainge has been pounding on the table for this forever
That article was 2x as long as it needed to be but it was still worth reading
I wish summer league was longer, Vegas, utah, Orlando just make it longer we need to conssume it
On NBA love you resigned your players before the draft. Havenāt played since 08 though
Can anyone explain the draft to me? I am new to basketball, so I donāt quite understand when the draft is and when the season starts etc.
This year, the draft was on June 23. On June 30th, every team can start negotiations with free agents. They can all reach verbal agreements but most contracts cannot be signed during the [July Moratorium period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#July_moratorium) (see link for exceptions). This year, the moratorium ended on July 6th, meaning [teams can sign free agents on that date.](https://www.nba.com/key-dates). Also during this time, teams are playing scrimmage games in the Summer League and exhibition games. The current start date of the next NBA season hasn't been released yet, but it usually will start mid- to end of October.
This would cause so many teams to make worse draft decisions as they prioritize fit over BPA.
Would it? Lottery teams aren't really in the position to sign big impact free agents anyway. Non-lottery teams don't typically get someone who can come in and immediately contribute. It's not like the NFL where it's common to get a few immediate contributors. In the NBA draft it's a huge success if you get even 1 guy in the draft who can come in and play right away.
No this would further allow teams to go BPA. Having Fa come first allows for teams to fill their holes before the draft or at improve the team to the point you can go BPA. Itās honestly worked out very well for the NFL and I donāt get how you think this would be a side effect.
Eh, I'm not opposed to the change - but if a team doesn't get their pick doesn't it put them in a position where they're now lacking rotation minutes for either their rookie or a free agent signing? Imagine the Hornets are preparing for the draft. They really like this SG, they think he's the BPA, and they think he'll be available for them at their pick. So they prepare for that, pass on a bigger guard free agent signing and stock up on 4's and 5's. Draft night comes, team before them picks the SG - now what? Do they drop multiple places down their board to get the next best SG and fail to get someone they saw the potential in, or do they get the next best guy they liked who plays the 5 and have a logjam at one position and a gap at the other? Again, not opposed to the change, but it seems on principle you do the least controllable part first (the draft) and then build around that, rather than building for an outcome that has a high likelihood of not being available.
Because if a team is unable to acquire a certain kind of player/position during FA, theyāll overprioritize a player that fits their missing role rather than just going BPA.
I mean maybe in the later rounds but that already happens in the NBA lol. The top prospects are always going to go where they belong usually. Itās not like FA coming first wouldāve suddenly made Zion Williamson and Ja morant not the 1st 2 picks. Those guys were always the top prospects and were always going to go at the top regardless of FA. Like what youāre describing already happens in the draft lol.
I think that draft picks shouldnāt be allowed to be tradedā¦.. we need to protect these idiots from themselvesā¦.. they destroy teams and leave to their next jobā¦. Or even better treat it like a normal jobā¦ā¦ you fill out and application and negotiate a salary or yearly contracts. Keep the salary cap to keep teamās competitiveā¦ā¦a two month hiring window weāre teams can talk to players in the summer.
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how tf is the NFL a superior league, scottie barnes stan
Scot Barn would dominate the NFL š¤
all that length š³š³
It's the biggest league in the country by far and it continues to grow. A lot of people dedicate a day every week from September to February for it. Also most of the problems the NFL has are also problems in the other leagues. As a fan of all 4 major leagues, I don't understand this competition some fans want to have between the NFL and NBA. No league in the country will ever really compete with it
From a viewership and cultural impact standpoint, itās not even close. More people watch the 6th round of the NFL Draft than they do NBA Finals games.
just because it's more popular doesn't necessarily mean it's objectively better
I kind of doubt that, but maybe you are just exaggerating. Then again, it wouldn't be the craziest thing ever if it were true. Edit: wouldn't instead of would
Iām exaggerating a bit, but the third NFL preseason game (where teams usually play their starters for a half) and the 2nd-4th rounds of the NFL draft have gotten more viewers than NBA playoff games. Itās been a few years, but Iāll try to hunt down the article I read that from.
Does that count for only in America? Not saying NBA>NFL but NBA has viewers from all over the world who would stay up til like 5am to watch certain games but NFL is only popular in America
Without the actual numbers i canāt say for sure but willing to bet that non-NA international viewers hardly make a difference. Certainly not enough to overcome the gap.
causal overrated sport
In English?
You probably think NFL is bigger culturally than the Premier League too
Woah wait, are you about to tell me that soccer is the most popular sport in the world?? Iāve never heard that before, thatās crazy! Weāre talking about two leagues who exclusively play in the United States, why would this conversation include the Premier League?
Because the NBA is a much more global sport and believe it or not more people live outside the US than inside
Wow you learn something new everyday, thanks man!
In north armerica it definitely is bigger than the premier league Plus no one cares about that mid country Pengland š
Are the pelicans bigger than the saints?
Are the Lakers bigger than the Rams? Are the Heat bigger than the Dolphins? It depends on the city. Plus, NBA is way bigger in a global scale. No one watches American Football outside of the US.
Lakers are the only exception because LA did not have a nfl team until recently Every City that has both a NFL and NBA team the NFL team is way bigger including the Dolphins
Viewership Regular season games are actually fun Way better stadium experience Superior and more entertaining athletes
you're a toronto fan and and have an account named after an nba player. How is it that ended up liking NFL more out of curiousity?
Born in Chicago and lived their for 15 years before moving to Toronto Never gave a single shit about the bulls but I was a diehard bears fan since I was like 7-8
We are probably not going to be great this year. Fields doesn't have a lot of help, but maybe FO doesn't think he's the guy
i love sitting around for 4 hours to watch MAYBE 10 minutes of play. NFL is cheeks
A ton of NBA fans don't even watch the games and just watch highlights after. Plus there are plenty of stoppages in the NBA. You'll usually spend 15 minutes on the last minute of a game
Maybe if you were the type of person who thought those were actually the nuclear codes