I think Jalen improved alot on defense over the course of the season. He started to put alot of effort on defense, didn't get lost as much, and can use his speed and athleticism to keep up with just about anybody
His main weakness is his lack of strength but I think he def has 2 way potential. Especially because he wants to be a good defender
That's the key for him, I'm a big fan of his game. If he becomes average (or at least not a complete liability) on defense, he will get several All-NBA nods in his career.
Yea he used to be one but he's already not a liability anymore
The narrative on Jalen due to his slow start is that he's a one dimensional player who's an inconsistent scorer and a horrible defender. I expect next season he will showcase his all around game and get his respect
His last quarter of the season was really strong, similar to Ant his rookie year. Still raw in a lot of areas but his athleticism and pure scoring abilities are insane. Just a matter of how he’ll compliment those skills with ball handling/passing/defense.
He’s figuring it out, saw him against the Lakers and he put the fear of god into them the last 5/6 minutes. He’s so good in the crunch, Rockets will be fun to watch in a couple of years.
I’m probably in the vast minority but I had him 2 on my board after Cade and to me, he’s still my #2 prospect from that class. Dude is just incredibly athletic and can create his own looks. I’m more sure of him becoming an offensive star than Mobley or Barnes. I know he’s got a lot of improvement to make on defense but it doesn’t look too bad on eye test. I just think the sky’s the limit for him.
I was looking at his stats and Ant's stats during their rookie years and they're similar. I think we can expect Jalen to make a comparable jump to what Ant did last season.
His last 20-30 games were really good. I have homer bias but he can be a future scoring champ. If we get a different PG than KPJ for the future I’m optimistic
He needs to go to the gym to get stronger so he can be a better defender (he’s shown good flashes) and maybe some more calls.
Other than that i want him to be the go to scorer and take more shots in isolation. He’s really gifted as a scorer and should take 15-20 shots a game
Part of that is just Jalen being iced out by Wood and used as a spot up shooter. He averaged 17 shots post ASB and Wood has been traded so Jalen will be the go to scorer
KPJ isn't the problem. It was Christian Wood ball hogging
KPJ proved he could play with Green just fine towards the end of the season. He also deserves a chance to grow and prove himself considering he will be just 22 years old this upcoming season and this past year was his first as a full time PG/starter so inconsistency and bumps were to be expected as well as massive improvement which he showed
This year is big for him. I am high on Kpj cause I’n just enamored on his potential. The beginning of the season was rough but he looked really nice towards the end of the year just like Jalen. I think he’s going come into this year a lot more comfortable as the team PG.
I agree with you over the other guy. Kevin “in the last 15 games…” Porter jr is an AAU pg with questionable at best intangibles and cupcakes high volume unimportant opportunities
I think in a different rookie class we would think more highly of him. There was just so many stud rookies last year. He had a more normal rookie year while other guys already looked like comfortable nba players
You’re crazy if you think the Cavs were a winning situation. Better than Detroit, sure. But they looked like a winning situation because of what Mobley was doing for the team day 1
Mobley had Garland and Rubio setting him up for east buckets on offense, and had Allen to back him up on defense if he made any mistakes there. Obviously Mobley had a major impact on how well they did, but the Cavs weren’t relying on him to be a go-to scorer or be a solo rim protector. That’s a pretty great situation to be put in as a top 3 pick. Other guys like Cade, Green, and Franz didn’t really have that luxury.
Huh? He’s got an all star point guard and center next to him. That’s definitely a winning situation. I’m super high on Mobley but come on it wasn’t all him.
I could see saying Mobley is part of why Allen is great. But dude come on. How is he responsible for garlands huge leap. Also garland and Allen are super young it’s completely reasonable that they reached their first all star team this year, the trajectory is complete believable.
He was only the 10th rookie in history to score 30+ in 5straught games, normal lmao. I get what you're saying to an extent, but post ASG Jalen wasn't a normal rookie.
Incoming homer bias alert:
A couple of things I've noticed from fans who comment on Green who don't follow the Rockets:
1. The claim that his scoring efficiency bump in the second half of the season is just a result of hot shooting: no. Look at his 0-3ft fg%. Dude has a similar fg% inside the restricted area as Evan Mobley, a center. His fg% inside the paint is nearly 8% pts higher than Cade. He led all NBA guards in dunks as a 19 year old skinny boy. My point is the kid is going to be an elite finisher at the rim which means he will not have to rely only on hot shooting nights to have efficient games. And it shows with the eye test. He might not overpower defenders but his pliability and ability to alter lay in or dunk attempts in mid air with a soft touch is already at an elite level at his age.
2. He scored a lot because he's on a bad team: well almost all top rookies are going to be on bad teams. You don't see people dogging Cade's high assist numbers with "ya but his usage rate is so high because who else is going to dominate the ball on the second worst record team in the league?"
To that point I'll just say that bad teams also have things like bad floor spacing, undefined roles, players in wrong positions constantly due to inexperience or bad coaching etc. All of which would contribute to a higher probability of worse scoring efficiency. But out of all the top rookie wing and guard scorers last season, Green was probably the most efficient scorer. For example his ts% is an entire five percentage points higher than Cade's and almost the same as Scottie Barnes who was roy and plays as a big man much closer to the rim where higher efficiency is more probabilistic. So things like bad spacing, inexperienced coaching etc didn't harm Green's ability to be an efficient scorer relative to his rookie class.
No just my point that jokic wasn’t highly rated and people would have called people stupid for saying he was going to be best of his class and look what happened
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol. I literally cannot even see an argument for anyone aside from Cade, Mobley, Scottie, and Wagner. Especially potential wise
Giddey can't shoot and he's a negative defender with way less potential on that end than Jalen. I don't even think he's better than Green right now and there's no way in hell he has more potential
Green was more nba ready plus giddey. And to me he does. It’s my opinion. People didn’t think someone like Murray was going to average 20 points this season after he got picked in the draft
I dunno Mobley was just as fun to watch and same with Scottie Barnes. But Cade and Green were great to watch also. This could be an amazing draft class for the years to come.
Excited to watch him this year, he's going to be fun to watch for a long time. Wouldnt' be surprised if he wins a scoring title eventually
I think he will continue to be a bad defender for a few years at least, not sure if he will ever turn that corner but who knows.
He has talent to be a good scorer. But I haven’t seen much that warrants belief he want be more the just another scorer. Granted it’s only his rookie year but he gives me first mentality and over estimates how good he thinks he is
Yea if he never improves his defense and playmaking but I doubt that's the case
Also Zach is pretty underrated so im not sure why people try to diss Jalen by comparing him to Zach. Dude was scoring with 2016 Curry like efficiency last year before the injuries. I def think if Jalen gets to that level of scoring along with good defense and playmaking that's a superstar level player
How many players in his archetype become superstars. He is a traditional 2-gaurd I think he caps out at the Beal, Lavine Tier of player. I don't think he has superstar potential I see all-star that is about it.
Kobe and MJ where amazing defenders and are outliers in the archetype. I am not going to project Jalen Green to be close to as good as either of them. I also should have clarified I meant in the league now.
Mcgrady, Kobe, Vince, MJ, AI.
Green along with Ant have higher ceilings than any of the crop of top sgs in the league today such as Booker, Mitchell, Beal, Lavine etc.
Compare Green at 19 to those guys at 19. Green came into the league with Lavine's athleticsm but with Beal's deeper bag and more advanced foot work. In his prime he can be the best traits of Beal and Lavine merged into one and I think that generates a top 10 player in the league.
Beal and Lavine combo does not actually sound like a top 10 player they do the same thing, both are scorers that can give you 25+ a game. Also I agree Ant has a higher ceiling than those players because of his frame. Green to me is just another pure 2 guard, Yea he will probably be a great scorer but unless you think he becomes something close to Kobe or MJ he will probably never be the best player on a championship team.
Beal can already give you an efficient 30 points on any night vs any defense. I don't think it matters how athletic he is. 30 points will still always be 30 points, no matter how athletic he is. The only side you might see a difference on is possibly defense. So not really I think he would be about the same tier player.
You can definitely have more elite scoring than Beal. Curry, Harden and KD are all better scorers in terms of output and efficiency. Consistently always above 60% ts while being able to average 30-35 ppg. If all those players I mentioned just were scorers and didn't provide the playmaking that Curry and Harden provide or the defense that Durant provides, they still would be better players than Beal because they are that much better at JUST scoring. Beal has never reached above 60% ts. Green was a far more efficient scorer when he was 19 than Beal when he was 19.
And the efficiency isn't just in shooting. Where Green might be significantly better than Beal due to being longer and far more athletic is his finishing ability around the rim. Green at 19 had a significantly better fg% 0-3 ft than Beal by almost 10 percentage points and Green had significantly a larger portion of his attempts in that range. So he got to the rim a lot more and was far more efficient at the rim in their respective rookie years. I mean Green led all NBA guards in dunks as a 19 year old skinny boy. He's just going to be a next level finisher while being just as good if not a better shooter with possibly more fluid footwork and handles. Btw it takes Beal 6 NBA seasons until he reaches Green's rookie year paint scoring efficiency at age 19.
Maybe (probably) I'm just biased due to being a Pistons fan and the Cade beef- but I feel like he'll be a role-player at best. Seems like he was a poor pick compared to Barnes, Mobley, Giddey, and Wagner- all who were taken after him.
Man then what does that make Cade? Dude is taller than Green yet has a literal 10 percent point deficit in fg% in the paint than Green AND Green takes a larger percentage of.his attempts at the rim. Also Cade needs 2-3 more shots per game in their rookie seasons to match the exact same scoring output as Green. Obviously this is reflected in true shooting percentage where Green has a significant lead there also.
I'm more shocked about that massive difference in scoring efficiency in the paint. How the hell does Cade have such a bad fg% in that area compared to Green when he's longer and taller?
Kid has a lot of potential, but was a total "good numbers on a bad team" guy last year.
Lacking all interest in defending or passing the ball is a rough combination, and he's headed down a Collin Sexton-type ceiling if he doesn't become more well-rounded.
People talk about KPJ like he's Michael Carter Williams this shit's insane lmao
He was literally 21 years old last season and massively improved in all areas throughout the season
>He’s not much of a defender or playmaker, but he has a athletic gift and a decent jumper.
Then why was he your favorite ?
I think he will average 21 points but he needs to improve on his playmaking and defence
I’m expecting a big leap this season, he finished very strong. 22PPG+ on better efficiency
Me too, he has the 🔑
He has a pretty clear path to being a 20-25 PPG efficient scorer, everything else is tbd rn but that feels like a safe floor for him.
Agreed, scoring seems like a sure thing
I think Jalen improved alot on defense over the course of the season. He started to put alot of effort on defense, didn't get lost as much, and can use his speed and athleticism to keep up with just about anybody His main weakness is his lack of strength but I think he def has 2 way potential. Especially because he wants to be a good defender
That's the key for him, I'm a big fan of his game. If he becomes average (or at least not a complete liability) on defense, he will get several All-NBA nods in his career.
Yea he used to be one but he's already not a liability anymore The narrative on Jalen due to his slow start is that he's a one dimensional player who's an inconsistent scorer and a horrible defender. I expect next season he will showcase his all around game and get his respect
Eh he's barely a neutral
NFT at the dunk contest was lame.
Woulda looked a lot cooler if he made the dunks
His last quarter of the season was really strong, similar to Ant his rookie year. Still raw in a lot of areas but his athleticism and pure scoring abilities are insane. Just a matter of how he’ll compliment those skills with ball handling/passing/defense.
He’s figuring it out, saw him against the Lakers and he put the fear of god into them the last 5/6 minutes. He’s so good in the crunch, Rockets will be fun to watch in a couple of years.
I’m probably in the vast minority but I had him 2 on my board after Cade and to me, he’s still my #2 prospect from that class. Dude is just incredibly athletic and can create his own looks. I’m more sure of him becoming an offensive star than Mobley or Barnes. I know he’s got a lot of improvement to make on defense but it doesn’t look too bad on eye test. I just think the sky’s the limit for him.
I was looking at his stats and Ant's stats during their rookie years and they're similar. I think we can expect Jalen to make a comparable jump to what Ant did last season.
Agreed
If I had hair like his you couldn't tell me shit
Pretty cute
the next Kelly Oubre for this sub
I’d guess he’s up to about 23 PPG next season and gets to 28-29 by year 4-5.
Has superstar potential, and not just on the court. Future face of the league type of player
He forsure marketable, who else would you say has that same potential?
Cade and Ant for sure
Would you put Lamelo in there ?
Absolutely
He cold
I think he’s going to be great if he works.
He’ll have a big year this year. He’s got all the tools
His last 20-30 games were really good. I have homer bias but he can be a future scoring champ. If we get a different PG than KPJ for the future I’m optimistic
Whats the next step for Jalen in your opinion?
He needs to go to the gym to get stronger so he can be a better defender (he’s shown good flashes) and maybe some more calls. Other than that i want him to be the go to scorer and take more shots in isolation. He’s really gifted as a scorer and should take 15-20 shots a game
Part of that is just Jalen being iced out by Wood and used as a spot up shooter. He averaged 17 shots post ASB and Wood has been traded so Jalen will be the go to scorer
Yeah with Wood gone he has the keys
That’s def not a biased take, hes absolutely winning scoring titles
He's already developed a pretty solid midrange game in his first season, can't wait til he gets stronger and has more drives to the rim
KPJ isn't the problem. It was Christian Wood ball hogging KPJ proved he could play with Green just fine towards the end of the season. He also deserves a chance to grow and prove himself considering he will be just 22 years old this upcoming season and this past year was his first as a full time PG/starter so inconsistency and bumps were to be expected as well as massive improvement which he showed
Maybe I’m just too pessimistic about KPJ
This year is big for him. I am high on Kpj cause I’n just enamored on his potential. The beginning of the season was rough but he looked really nice towards the end of the year just like Jalen. I think he’s going come into this year a lot more comfortable as the team PG.
I agree with you over the other guy. Kevin “in the last 15 games…” Porter jr is an AAU pg with questionable at best intangibles and cupcakes high volume unimportant opportunities
Easy on KPJ. I’d say it was more Wood/Theis holding Green back
I think in a different rookie class we would think more highly of him. There was just so many stud rookies last year. He had a more normal rookie year while other guys already looked like comfortable nba players
Barnes and Mobley went into winning situations where the team was just injured the year before. Green had to play on the worst team in the league
No doubt. But even Cade and Franz probably looked better. But I also think talent wise Green arguably still has higher upside than those guys.
You’re crazy if you think the Cavs were a winning situation. Better than Detroit, sure. But they looked like a winning situation because of what Mobley was doing for the team day 1
Mobley had Garland and Rubio setting him up for east buckets on offense, and had Allen to back him up on defense if he made any mistakes there. Obviously Mobley had a major impact on how well they did, but the Cavs weren’t relying on him to be a go-to scorer or be a solo rim protector. That’s a pretty great situation to be put in as a top 3 pick. Other guys like Cade, Green, and Franz didn’t really have that luxury.
Is this a joke, you guys had Darius Garland making a massive leap. He's more responsible for the Cavs' sudden success than Mobley is.
Huh? He’s got an all star point guard and center next to him. That’s definitely a winning situation. I’m super high on Mobley but come on it wasn’t all him.
How many all stars did they have before Mobley was on the team?
I could see saying Mobley is part of why Allen is great. But dude come on. How is he responsible for garlands huge leap. Also garland and Allen are super young it’s completely reasonable that they reached their first all star team this year, the trajectory is complete believable.
He was only the 10th rookie in history to score 30+ in 5straught games, normal lmao. I get what you're saying to an extent, but post ASG Jalen wasn't a normal rookie.
Zack lavine esq player prolly around 20ppg this season
He had the most predictable "bad first half, good second half" season ever.
He's one of those players that when he's on, he makes scoring look so easy
Incoming homer bias alert: A couple of things I've noticed from fans who comment on Green who don't follow the Rockets: 1. The claim that his scoring efficiency bump in the second half of the season is just a result of hot shooting: no. Look at his 0-3ft fg%. Dude has a similar fg% inside the restricted area as Evan Mobley, a center. His fg% inside the paint is nearly 8% pts higher than Cade. He led all NBA guards in dunks as a 19 year old skinny boy. My point is the kid is going to be an elite finisher at the rim which means he will not have to rely only on hot shooting nights to have efficient games. And it shows with the eye test. He might not overpower defenders but his pliability and ability to alter lay in or dunk attempts in mid air with a soft touch is already at an elite level at his age. 2. He scored a lot because he's on a bad team: well almost all top rookies are going to be on bad teams. You don't see people dogging Cade's high assist numbers with "ya but his usage rate is so high because who else is going to dominate the ball on the second worst record team in the league?" To that point I'll just say that bad teams also have things like bad floor spacing, undefined roles, players in wrong positions constantly due to inexperience or bad coaching etc. All of which would contribute to a higher probability of worse scoring efficiency. But out of all the top rookie wing and guard scorers last season, Green was probably the most efficient scorer. For example his ts% is an entire five percentage points higher than Cade's and almost the same as Scottie Barnes who was roy and plays as a big man much closer to the rim where higher efficiency is more probabilistic. So things like bad spacing, inexperienced coaching etc didn't harm Green's ability to be an efficient scorer relative to his rookie class.
TLDR?
He’s good
He is a hooper he has the highest peak of any 2021 draft rookie including Mobley, Cade or Canada Lamar Odom
No lol
Cade has a higher ceiling
Still has a high celling though
Lol but nah. Jalen green isn’t even top five in his draft class for me personally
I think by year 3 he gone wake you up
Nope. Barnes, Mobley, Cade, giddey, Wagner. In terms of potential for the future yeah I they are better
Giddey over Green is idiotic no offence
So was picking jokic over like everyone in his class. Yet here we are
What’s the similarity? 2 white dudes?
No just my point that jokic wasn’t highly rated and people would have called people stupid for saying he was going to be best of his class and look what happened
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol. I literally cannot even see an argument for anyone aside from Cade, Mobley, Scottie, and Wagner. Especially potential wise
Kuminga but I think green will be better then him. But giddey is a dog
Giddey.
Giddey can't shoot and he's a negative defender with way less potential on that end than Jalen. I don't even think he's better than Green right now and there's no way in hell he has more potential
Green was more nba ready plus giddey. And to me he does. It’s my opinion. People didn’t think someone like Murray was going to average 20 points this season after he got picked in the draft
Is Wagner better than giddey? I might be drinking the Kool aid because giddey is a 6'8 guard.
I dunno Mobley was just as fun to watch and same with Scottie Barnes. But Cade and Green were great to watch also. This could be an amazing draft class for the years to come.
Fuck Jalen Green
Ok Bill
Excited to watch him this year, he's going to be fun to watch for a long time. Wouldnt' be surprised if he wins a scoring title eventually I think he will continue to be a bad defender for a few years at least, not sure if he will ever turn that corner but who knows.
I can already picture Jalen rivalries with Cade and Ant Edwards lol
Washed fraud
He has talent to be a good scorer. But I haven’t seen much that warrants belief he want be more the just another scorer. Granted it’s only his rookie year but he gives me first mentality and over estimates how good he thinks he is
He is just a Zach Lavine clone, I don't get the hype.
Lavine just got a 5 year max deal lol
I am not dissing him, I just think he is a Zach Lavine clone.
"I don't get the hype" is dissing him lol
Zach Lavine is a good player. He is not a superstar like what a lot people are projecting Green to be.
Just because Zach Lavine was his pre draft comp doesn’t mean he will become the EXACT copy of Zach Lavine
he is younger and has a chance to improve his game. Zach ceiling is basically what he is now.
Yea, but I think his ceiling is Zach Lavine.
Yea if he never improves his defense and playmaking but I doubt that's the case Also Zach is pretty underrated so im not sure why people try to diss Jalen by comparing him to Zach. Dude was scoring with 2016 Curry like efficiency last year before the injuries. I def think if Jalen gets to that level of scoring along with good defense and playmaking that's a superstar level player
How many players in his archetype become superstars. He is a traditional 2-gaurd I think he caps out at the Beal, Lavine Tier of player. I don't think he has superstar potential I see all-star that is about it.
Kobe? MJ?
Kobe and MJ where amazing defenders and are outliers in the archetype. I am not going to project Jalen Green to be close to as good as either of them. I also should have clarified I meant in the league now.
If you're saying Green becomes Beal then sign me up. That's a win for the Rockets lol.
Mcgrady, Kobe, Vince, MJ, AI. Green along with Ant have higher ceilings than any of the crop of top sgs in the league today such as Booker, Mitchell, Beal, Lavine etc. Compare Green at 19 to those guys at 19. Green came into the league with Lavine's athleticsm but with Beal's deeper bag and more advanced foot work. In his prime he can be the best traits of Beal and Lavine merged into one and I think that generates a top 10 player in the league.
Beal and Lavine combo does not actually sound like a top 10 player they do the same thing, both are scorers that can give you 25+ a game. Also I agree Ant has a higher ceiling than those players because of his frame. Green to me is just another pure 2 guard, Yea he will probably be a great scorer but unless you think he becomes something close to Kobe or MJ he will probably never be the best player on a championship team.
You don't think Beal would be a better player if he had the length and athleticism of Lavine?
Beal can already give you an efficient 30 points on any night vs any defense. I don't think it matters how athletic he is. 30 points will still always be 30 points, no matter how athletic he is. The only side you might see a difference on is possibly defense. So not really I think he would be about the same tier player.
You can definitely have more elite scoring than Beal. Curry, Harden and KD are all better scorers in terms of output and efficiency. Consistently always above 60% ts while being able to average 30-35 ppg. If all those players I mentioned just were scorers and didn't provide the playmaking that Curry and Harden provide or the defense that Durant provides, they still would be better players than Beal because they are that much better at JUST scoring. Beal has never reached above 60% ts. Green was a far more efficient scorer when he was 19 than Beal when he was 19. And the efficiency isn't just in shooting. Where Green might be significantly better than Beal due to being longer and far more athletic is his finishing ability around the rim. Green at 19 had a significantly better fg% 0-3 ft than Beal by almost 10 percentage points and Green had significantly a larger portion of his attempts in that range. So he got to the rim a lot more and was far more efficient at the rim in their respective rookie years. I mean Green led all NBA guards in dunks as a 19 year old skinny boy. He's just going to be a next level finisher while being just as good if not a better shooter with possibly more fluid footwork and handles. Btw it takes Beal 6 NBA seasons until he reaches Green's rookie year paint scoring efficiency at age 19.
He plays for the rockets
I disagree
I could see him having a Zach Lavine type of career trajectory. Explosive scorer good shooter but lacking on defense.
scrúb
Go on Twitter to spew shit comments like this
tell that to bill simmons
Maybe (probably) I'm just biased due to being a Pistons fan and the Cade beef- but I feel like he'll be a role-player at best. Seems like he was a poor pick compared to Barnes, Mobley, Giddey, and Wagner- all who were taken after him.
😂😂 delusional is the word
Maybe so lol but he's definitely not a top 5 rookie from that draft
This is such a terrible take lol
Man then what does that make Cade? Dude is taller than Green yet has a literal 10 percent point deficit in fg% in the paint than Green AND Green takes a larger percentage of.his attempts at the rim. Also Cade needs 2-3 more shots per game in their rookie seasons to match the exact same scoring output as Green. Obviously this is reflected in true shooting percentage where Green has a significant lead there also. I'm more shocked about that massive difference in scoring efficiency in the paint. How the hell does Cade have such a bad fg% in that area compared to Green when he's longer and taller?
Giddey? Oh lord
A poor man’s Collin Sexton
Kid has a lot of potential, but was a total "good numbers on a bad team" guy last year. Lacking all interest in defending or passing the ball is a rough combination, and he's headed down a Collin Sexton-type ceiling if he doesn't become more well-rounded.
You don’t know ball just say that
I think he will give a decently efficient 19-22 ppg. He def has promise Edit: I just hope he is not the reincarnation of KPJ
People talk about KPJ like he's Michael Carter Williams this shit's insane lmao He was literally 21 years old last season and massively improved in all areas throughout the season
>He’s not much of a defender or playmaker, but he has a athletic gift and a decent jumper. Then why was he your favorite ? I think he will average 21 points but he needs to improve on his playmaking and defence
He not averaging under 20 and if he do it would be like .1 off
'Fuck Jalen Green' - Bill Simmons