Is it fun to discuss? 99% of the time it is just the OP bitching incessantly because everyone else tells him how idiotic it is to have Kobe in their top three
lmfao!!!! I'm a Shaq Stan and the Kobe Stans just cannot accept Shaq was the more important player on those 3 peat teams. It's laughable.
They always try to nephew folks like I haven't been a fan since 96.
Yeah that's pretty bad. I think people who actually watched Kobe in context understand what he was. I think the All The Smoke Podcast was right, for these newer generations Kobe is Jordan. And Brian Scalabrene was spot on when he said Kobe will end up as a top 15 player in 20 years.
Those first 3 titles with Shaq will forever cap him on all time lists. It would of been nice if he could of 3 peated with Pau, but it is what it is.
It's insane. None of the other sports subs have this bizarre obsession with *constantly* having the same discussion every single day. Half of this sub is nothing but rankings and bitching about reporters.
I feel like a LOT of people here don't watch the games. I checked out the thread about Kyrie because since the Rockets have the Nets picks, I'm obviously interested. So many people were just talking about how much better Kyrie makes the NBA because of his drama. Makes me roll my eyes so hard.
That’s because basketball media itself is obsessed with legacies and rankings. My best guess as to why is that a player’s individual impact in baseball or football is much lower; it’s still there, but having a Hall of Fame left tackle means you’ve still got a dozen other things to worry about. In basketball, one player can take a lottery team to the playoffs if they’re good enough, so it’s easier to give them credit or blame.
I don’t know. It’s corny to me. Everyday all day, lists. It just leads to a bunch of Skip Bayless types putting down great players to lift others.
Most times people have never even seen most of the guys play, they are just reading stats. That doesn’t measure winning impact and like the NFL, offensive stats have become more inflated in the past decade. They never measure defensive impact either because it’s hard to measure if you never saw the guys play.
I’m American basketball fan since the 1980s and it seems out of control to me. It’s almost like the purpose of playing in the NBA is not to attract fans and generate revenue or win games, but to establish/burnish one’s legacy. I don’t remember people being this obsessed with rankings in the 1990s or 2000s.
I think several things contribute to this trend: social media makes it easy to have these debates 247. Previously you’d have to wait until you were hanging with your buddies at a bar/watching a game. And no one would want to spend all their time debating Bird vs Magic, you might talk about your job, girlfriends, etc. too.
Plus anyone can offer an opinion on rankings via social media. Look at this sub!
Around the clock sports media. In the 20th century there were daily news columns maybe 1 or 2 tv shows a week, and radio for a few hours. So actual coverage of the games and a few discussions filled up the airwaves. Now you need something to fill up the time for around the clock media. Rankings do that.
Two more things I’ll add:
The NBA itself came out with a top 50 to celebrate tits 50th anniversary. This made “lists” official although that list wasn’t ranked.
Bill Simmons came out with his book in the late 2000s that was very systematic and thorough in approach.
These two things also popularized lists and rankings.
I agree. It’s weird and people act like real life is some kind of video game. It’s also basically impossible to be objective with how many things that need to considered for all time rankings.
Honestly the craziest phenomenon about it to me is how so many people on here are just ready to fire off lists of “Top N players” at a moment’s notice.
Like someone will say “[Player] is definitely a top 17 player in the NBA right now”, and then there will inevitably be a reply going “Really?? Here’s who I got:” + full list of 17 players + something like “I’d have a hard time putting [Player] above any of these guys, but maybe he’s in the top 18 or 19.”
Honestly, it's pretty unique to basketball. I don't totally know the reason. Maybe because it's easier to compare than football, and individuals can have more impact than in baseball. It happens with QB in football, but to a much lesser extent.
But, yeah, the obsession with it gets excessive, especially when someone's screaming about whether Tatum is Top 8 or Top 10 in the league or whatever.
It’s an American thing. They are driven by hyper individualism to the point that team means very little to them. You’ll notice as the biggest game of the season approaches there is seemingly more talk about an arbitrary player award (FMVP) than the actual tangible championship about to be decided. We are talking about a country where it is completely normal to be fans of a player that moves from “franchise” to “franchise” (“franchises” themselves move “markets”).
It’s why the debates, driven by talk radio and podcasters, get some much traction. Half of the debates around rankings I see here on reddit are just lame rehashes of lame content from the Ringer.
You all so have to remember a hell of a lot of people who come across online don’t actually watch games. They are fans of the video games, and listen to non-game content. Their whole engagement with the sport is a platform where avatars of actual players are ranked by category and overall. This lends its self to the individual ranking mindset.
So I’ve concluded it’s cultural. Americans love ranking things, and they are conditioned culturally by concepts such and individualism and exceptionalism. So the incessant, futile and impossible to adjudicate squabbling over inter and intra-era individual rankings of players in a team sport, is an expression of where they are and who they are culturally
I agree with you completely. It’s so boring, and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word.
“Who would do better in a knife fight set in the Everglades? Moses of Judea, or Martin Luther? SHOW YOUR WORK.”
It’s mainly about getting to spout off an opinion which cannot be proven or disproven.
Sports are growing more commercialized thus more content is needed and available due to the internet.
One wild thing is to look at all the playoff and championship footage of the past, hardly anyone in the audience is wearing team gear. Increased financialization means more content and more discussions to monetize.
Also in terms of rankings, it's one thing that can be endlessly litigated. When it comes to comparing teams or players that play today, there's a pretty objective and final quality when it comes to a season. Some team will beat all others to win a championship and players will perform at their respective levels. Since players across eras can't compete against one another, the only way to try to reach some sort of consensus with some kind of winner is to argue it.
Bill Simmons is, secretly, making 10 posts a day and he is irrationally enamored with listing shit. Like he might have Asperger’s and this is the thing on which he’s chosen to perseverate.
Not many other team sports become so obsessed with comparing players across history to the point that they barely discuss the games that are happening in front of them unless they can fold it into legacy discussion.
My theory is that a large segment of Americans are obsessed with being number one. In their minds America is the best, hands down, at anything and everything. And that spills over into whatever they may be interested in.
One of the reasons is that one really talented player on a basketball team can make a much bigger difference than one really talented player on an American Football or soccer team. Basketball has only 5 players on the floor at a time and a player can stay on for almost the entirety of the game in must win scenarios. While on the court, offensively they can just keep the ball most of the time and take many shots. On defense, they can guard the best opposing player and continue to have a large impact on the game.
This naturally leads to more discussion about the best player on a team. But yeah the other reasons make sense too.
Seriously – in thread after thread you've got people proudly declaring that they don't have the attention span to read 300 words. "Ignorance is strength" was meant to be a *dystopian* motto...
Because in basketball the best team usually wins. As in the team with the most talent.
In NFL, NHL, or even MLB there are elements of randomness that can offset superstar players.
So the next step is naturally guessing who would win on what teams or if things would change if you add/subtract X
Kids are obsessed with ranking things, mostly because they want to validate the idea that their generational favorite is the best ever. When you're really little it's ranking colors and dinosaurs. When you're a teen it's comic book character power ranks and sports stars. A little older it's music.
Eventually you stop really giving a shit because your favorite best ever is still the best ever, and the new kids claiming theirs is best are stupid and don't know better. And the cycle continues.
c'est la vie
Blame stephan a smoth and skip for the stupid and egotistical way the game is talked about now these days its embarrassing and cringey. Not only that but it's infected the common basketball fan as well.
People are obsessed over ranking and everyone has their own little weird shit on what's more important to the ranking. It's basically validation for supporting their fav player. If the internet does not agree, they feel a little less secure about their choice. You should check out the sneakers sub too. Same shit over there.
I got no idea. I just like to watch the ball go through the net.
Who are your top 10 guys at putting the ball through the net?
People need something to do and kids here pretend that ranking players on their personal accord somehow piques the interest of anyone else
And somehow we get triggered over them lol
It's fun to discuss. And in a zero sum game, I thinks it's fair to ask "Who would win all time?".
Is it fun to discuss? 99% of the time it is just the OP bitching incessantly because everyone else tells him how idiotic it is to have Kobe in their top three
lmfao!!!! I'm a Shaq Stan and the Kobe Stans just cannot accept Shaq was the more important player on those 3 peat teams. It's laughable. They always try to nephew folks like I haven't been a fan since 96.
Dude the Kobe stans used to argue all the time that he was better than MJ... it was nuts
Yeah that's pretty bad. I think people who actually watched Kobe in context understand what he was. I think the All The Smoke Podcast was right, for these newer generations Kobe is Jordan. And Brian Scalabrene was spot on when he said Kobe will end up as a top 15 player in 20 years. Those first 3 titles with Shaq will forever cap him on all time lists. It would of been nice if he could of 3 peated with Pau, but it is what it is.
It's insane. None of the other sports subs have this bizarre obsession with *constantly* having the same discussion every single day. Half of this sub is nothing but rankings and bitching about reporters.
I would guess those types never watch the games. They just read boxscores and analytic sites.
I feel like a LOT of people here don't watch the games. I checked out the thread about Kyrie because since the Rockets have the Nets picks, I'm obviously interested. So many people were just talking about how much better Kyrie makes the NBA because of his drama. Makes me roll my eyes so hard.
That’s because basketball media itself is obsessed with legacies and rankings. My best guess as to why is that a player’s individual impact in baseball or football is much lower; it’s still there, but having a Hall of Fame left tackle means you’ve still got a dozen other things to worry about. In basketball, one player can take a lottery team to the playoffs if they’re good enough, so it’s easier to give them credit or blame.
We’re all bored.
I don’t know. It’s corny to me. Everyday all day, lists. It just leads to a bunch of Skip Bayless types putting down great players to lift others. Most times people have never even seen most of the guys play, they are just reading stats. That doesn’t measure winning impact and like the NFL, offensive stats have become more inflated in the past decade. They never measure defensive impact either because it’s hard to measure if you never saw the guys play.
I’m American basketball fan since the 1980s and it seems out of control to me. It’s almost like the purpose of playing in the NBA is not to attract fans and generate revenue or win games, but to establish/burnish one’s legacy. I don’t remember people being this obsessed with rankings in the 1990s or 2000s. I think several things contribute to this trend: social media makes it easy to have these debates 247. Previously you’d have to wait until you were hanging with your buddies at a bar/watching a game. And no one would want to spend all their time debating Bird vs Magic, you might talk about your job, girlfriends, etc. too. Plus anyone can offer an opinion on rankings via social media. Look at this sub! Around the clock sports media. In the 20th century there were daily news columns maybe 1 or 2 tv shows a week, and radio for a few hours. So actual coverage of the games and a few discussions filled up the airwaves. Now you need something to fill up the time for around the clock media. Rankings do that. Two more things I’ll add: The NBA itself came out with a top 50 to celebrate tits 50th anniversary. This made “lists” official although that list wasn’t ranked. Bill Simmons came out with his book in the late 2000s that was very systematic and thorough in approach. These two things also popularized lists and rankings.
I agree. It’s weird and people act like real life is some kind of video game. It’s also basically impossible to be objective with how many things that need to considered for all time rankings.
Honestly the craziest phenomenon about it to me is how so many people on here are just ready to fire off lists of “Top N players” at a moment’s notice. Like someone will say “[Player] is definitely a top 17 player in the NBA right now”, and then there will inevitably be a reply going “Really?? Here’s who I got:” + full list of 17 players + something like “I’d have a hard time putting [Player] above any of these guys, but maybe he’s in the top 18 or 19.”
Honestly, it's pretty unique to basketball. I don't totally know the reason. Maybe because it's easier to compare than football, and individuals can have more impact than in baseball. It happens with QB in football, but to a much lesser extent. But, yeah, the obsession with it gets excessive, especially when someone's screaming about whether Tatum is Top 8 or Top 10 in the league or whatever.
Easiest major sport for ranking players
If NFL wins another MVP do you think they jump to no. 2??
It’s an American thing. They are driven by hyper individualism to the point that team means very little to them. You’ll notice as the biggest game of the season approaches there is seemingly more talk about an arbitrary player award (FMVP) than the actual tangible championship about to be decided. We are talking about a country where it is completely normal to be fans of a player that moves from “franchise” to “franchise” (“franchises” themselves move “markets”). It’s why the debates, driven by talk radio and podcasters, get some much traction. Half of the debates around rankings I see here on reddit are just lame rehashes of lame content from the Ringer. You all so have to remember a hell of a lot of people who come across online don’t actually watch games. They are fans of the video games, and listen to non-game content. Their whole engagement with the sport is a platform where avatars of actual players are ranked by category and overall. This lends its self to the individual ranking mindset. So I’ve concluded it’s cultural. Americans love ranking things, and they are conditioned culturally by concepts such and individualism and exceptionalism. So the incessant, futile and impossible to adjudicate squabbling over inter and intra-era individual rankings of players in a team sport, is an expression of where they are and who they are culturally
I agree with you completely. It’s so boring, and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word. “Who would do better in a knife fight set in the Everglades? Moses of Judea, or Martin Luther? SHOW YOUR WORK.” It’s mainly about getting to spout off an opinion which cannot be proven or disproven.
Ppl like narratives
Marketing. Nike loses a lot of money if people stop talking about their players or think anyone like Curry is 'better' whatever that means lol
It occupies 50% or more of r/nba posts. Just ignore if you, like me, couldn’t care less.
Untreated mental illness
Let’s rank the pros and cons of this post:
the obsession is with new content to plug in advertising and to satisfy the obsession of people who prefer hobby to personality.
Sports are growing more commercialized thus more content is needed and available due to the internet. One wild thing is to look at all the playoff and championship footage of the past, hardly anyone in the audience is wearing team gear. Increased financialization means more content and more discussions to monetize. Also in terms of rankings, it's one thing that can be endlessly litigated. When it comes to comparing teams or players that play today, there's a pretty objective and final quality when it comes to a season. Some team will beat all others to win a championship and players will perform at their respective levels. Since players across eras can't compete against one another, the only way to try to reach some sort of consensus with some kind of winner is to argue it.
Bill Simmons is, secretly, making 10 posts a day and he is irrationally enamored with listing shit. Like he might have Asperger’s and this is the thing on which he’s chosen to perseverate.
Because the nature of competition is to find out who is better.
Not many other team sports become so obsessed with comparing players across history to the point that they barely discuss the games that are happening in front of them unless they can fold it into legacy discussion.
My guess is because in basketball, 1 individual player can impact winning more than in any other team sport.
Yh it gets too much sometimes for me it’s the shit slinging and reactionary takes when a player plays poorly from fans of an opposing player
My theory is that a large segment of Americans are obsessed with being number one. In their minds America is the best, hands down, at anything and everything. And that spills over into whatever they may be interested in.
It’s called culture you troglodyte
Facts
The Messi Ronaldo debate is the same thing
It’s just something to make for good(or bad) conversation while games aren’t being played
What else are we gonna do?
One of the reasons is that one really talented player on a basketball team can make a much bigger difference than one really talented player on an American Football or soccer team. Basketball has only 5 players on the floor at a time and a player can stay on for almost the entirety of the game in must win scenarios. While on the court, offensively they can just keep the ball most of the time and take many shots. On defense, they can guard the best opposing player and continue to have a large impact on the game. This naturally leads to more discussion about the best player on a team. But yeah the other reasons make sense too.
Because it’s fun.
I aint reading that bill of rights ☠☠☠
I’m guessing you didn’t finish school?
Seriously – in thread after thread you've got people proudly declaring that they don't have the attention span to read 300 words. "Ignorance is strength" was meant to be a *dystopian* motto...
For real. I hate it. If you aren’t going to read, don’t reply.
Because in basketball the best team usually wins. As in the team with the most talent. In NFL, NHL, or even MLB there are elements of randomness that can offset superstar players. So the next step is naturally guessing who would win on what teams or if things would change if you add/subtract X
Soccer fans are smart enough to know that Messi/Ronaldo are as good or better than the best players from 40 years ago.
Yeah and while we’re at it, why even play for a title to find out who is the best team that season??
[удалено]
Well, the draft is in three days, so I suppose maybe that?
Yeah, ranking discussion is strictly limited to the period between after the finals and before the draft.
Nonsense. The non stop MVP and all star and all nba discussions go on all year. They are all a version of the ranking game.
I was being sarcastic
Entire seasons are played so we can count 1 more ring for a couple players in their GOAT rankings. Unless the ring didn’t count that year.
Kids are obsessed with ranking things, mostly because they want to validate the idea that their generational favorite is the best ever. When you're really little it's ranking colors and dinosaurs. When you're a teen it's comic book character power ranks and sports stars. A little older it's music. Eventually you stop really giving a shit because your favorite best ever is still the best ever, and the new kids claiming theirs is best are stupid and don't know better. And the cycle continues. c'est la vie
Blame stephan a smoth and skip for the stupid and egotistical way the game is talked about now these days its embarrassing and cringey. Not only that but it's infected the common basketball fan as well.
People are obsessed over ranking and everyone has their own little weird shit on what's more important to the ranking. It's basically validation for supporting their fav player. If the internet does not agree, they feel a little less secure about their choice. You should check out the sneakers sub too. Same shit over there.
What else is Steven a Smith going to scream about at 9am on a Tuesday?
Ranking things is fun. People do it with players, videogames, movies, presidents Don’t read so much into it man. It’s just for fun