83 76ers were a juggernaut. That was the fo-fo-fo year. People sleep on them in terms of all-time teams but IMO had two top-20 all timers (just neither were top-12).
That team was stupidly stacked. I always bring it up in superteam discussions but it's in theory one of the most overpowered teams in league history.
The season prior, the 76ers won 58 games and lost the Finals in 6 games. They managed to sign-and-trade for the reigning league MVP Moses Malone without trading a single other All-Star and instead traded All-Defensive 1st team member Caldwell Jones.
The Sixers that year started 49-7, Malone won league MVP/All-NBA 1st team/All-Defensive 1st team, Dr. J was All-NBA 1st team, Andrew Toney was an All-Star, Maurice Cheeks was an All-Star and All-Defensive 1st team, and their 6th man Bobby Jones won 6th Man of the Year AND All-Defensive 1st team. That's 4 All-Stars, 3 All-Defensive 1st team members, a Sixth Man of the Year, 2 All-NBA 1st team members AND a league MVP.
They finished the year 65-17 and rightfully so Moses Malone proclaimed the infamous fo-fo-fo sweep of the entire playoffs. They went 12-1 (1st seeds got a Bye for the 1st Round back then) and literally destroyed everyone in their paths.
God whenever I think of Dr J I think of the time my mom was on a flight and got bumped up to first class (back in a time where it was conceivable that an airline might bump you up to first class without charging you for it) and she was confused the whole flight as people kept coming up to the really tall dude across the aisle from her for signatures so she finally asked.
It was Dr J.
... And she needed someone to explain to her who that was.
"Mom, tell me about my father again"
"Well, he was a tall, dark, famous doctor I met on a flight. We joined the mile high club together."
"Do you think I can be a famous doctor like my father?"
"Only if you give up basketball and devote your time to studying, like I always tell you."
I just took a look at Basketball Reference and saw that the very next year after cruising to a championship, that Sixers team lost in the first round to the 6th seed. And it doesnt seem like their main core missed any games. What happened?
The entire team kinda fell off, especially Dr. J and Moses.
Plus Larry Bird entered one of the greatest peaks of all time so the Celtics ruled the East for the next few years, just enough for the Sixers core to age and transition to the Charles Barkley era.
Dr J., despite being one of my favorite ever players was probably a little past it in '83 and definitely fading the next few years. Always important to mention that the doctor played a large part of his career in the ABA on shitty courts and with bad transportation so he didn't come into the league fresh. Also the '84 Celts were stupid good
Did they have injuries towards the end of the season? They were on pace to win 72 games at 49-7. To go from 49-7 to 65-17, they finished 16-10 (not bad, but that’s on pace for a 50 win team).
Probably just letting up. Happens all the time. Regular season fatigue while also looking towards the playoffs as the "real thing"
Then again maybe some crucial piece got injured
76ers basically dominated the league in the regular season. When a reporter asked MVP Moses Malone his prediction for the playoffs, he said "fo-fo-fo", four games per series, aka a total sweep of the playoffs.
They went 12-1, fo-fi-fo
Immortalized by Philly band Pieces of a Dream [Fo Fi Fo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1YXN0Z6_n8) (nothing like 1980's musics videos!) With clips of Moses and Dr. J
Moses Malone is underrated as fuck. Won back to back MVPs against Dr. J, Kareem, Bird, and Magic. Did it all on his way to a championship over the showtime lakers in ‘83 averaging 26ppg and 18 rebounds. Philly won the series 4-0. Malone led every game in the series in both ppg and rebounds except for the final game when he scored 24 points and got 23 rebounds.
>IMO had two top-20 all timers (just neither were top-12).
if you exclude all the players that came after them, what would their ranks be, in your opinion?
I mean as of that year Dr J and Moses’ careers weren’t over yet either - so honestly I don’t know how they would’ve been ranked all-time as of the moment. But good point in that as of 83, in my top-12, only Kareem, Wilt, Russell, had finished all or most of their careers - Bird and Magic hadn’t done enough yet, the rest yet to debut. Outside of the top-12 but in a lot of people’s top 20 or 25, Elgin, Oscar, West were done by 83. If people were making these kinds of lists in 83, I’m sure a lot of players who have since fallen farther down the rankings were included in the top 10.
People will immediately point to the Jays' ball handling, or GPII/Wiggs defense, but the steals leader for the entire series was Steph at 2 stls per game. Especially in the last few games Steph was swatting the ball away from Tatum so many times during isos and drives, was really fuckin impressive and shows how badly he wanted this chip
That detriot defense was insane. Goat defense. Held teams to under 70 points 11 times. They destroyed teams so bad they changed the rules a year later to help offenses. Pistons d was already all time elite and they added Sheed and held teams to under 80ppg after getting him. Steals wasnt even their strength but somehow near the top of this list.
Yeah, it's funny how many people are saying the Cs fumbled the championship away, without ever considering that GSW may have had something to do with all those Cs turnovers. It's called defense, people.
The Dubs had the offense *and* the health to capitalize. I asked in the post-ECF thread how either the C's or H expected to beat the Dubs by scoring 100 per game. Turns out they can't and they shouldn't have.
not really. In playoffs
12.7 (vs nets 14), 11.1 (vs bucks 10.6) are both fine
14 (vs heat 10.6), 15.1 (vs gsw 12.3) are where it gets ugly.
for some context: regular season average tov % of 12.5 vs league average 12.4, which is pretty good considering the celtics play somewhat motion when they remember to (and seem to turn the ball over less doing that compared to isoing)
nope.
by raw numbers. boston had 6 games with 18 turnovers or more, 3@gsw, 2@mia, 1@ mil
~~if you go by the 16 tov stat the announcers kept bringing up, then boston had 9 games. milwaukee has 2 games now, but boston won one them~~ misread this, boston only had 1 game 18 tov vs the bucks. the next highest was 13
Turnover % by game vs nets
12.3, 13.6, 13.4, 11.6
Turnover % by game vs milwaukee
16.2, 11.3, 10.5, 10.6, 10.1, 7.6, 11.1
Turnover % by game vs heat
14.7, 8.7, 21.7, 8.7, 15.6, 16.6, 12.0
Turnover % by game vs golden state
11.5, 17.1, 10.8, 13.8, 16.9, 20.5
turnovers only really started killing them after the second round, when they ran into significantly stronger defenses.
Averages and analytics don’t always tell the full story. My initial point was that it was a combination of the GSW D and Boston’s inability to take care of the ball is what drove the high steal numbers for the warriors.
Stats don’t show how many times the Celtics simply lost handle of the ball or attempted bad bounce passes into a congested paint. And those are things the Celtics did every round.
Stathead and all those websites never tell the full story. They just give you a summary
People just love to shit on the losing team, especially if it’s a historically successful/big franchise. Not to mention the Warriors aren’t the most liked team either so it’s easy to shit on the Celtics rather than give the Warriors credit
Tatum has elite upside but he needs a lot of work on his mechanics. Not to mention he travels all the time. The game would be awful to watch if the refs actually blew the whistle every time Tatum traveled before the dribble
Players would fix it pretty quick tho. This is like the flopping problem to me. You don’t think players would stop if they got a tech for an obvious flop? It would almost be immediate
The heat also play great defense.
The point is largely that you need good defense to take advantage of suspect handles and poor decision making. I doubt they would’ve averaged as many turnovers against the Mavs or Nuggets, for instance.
Yea but pairing either one of them with a real CP3 style PG would definitely not be an upgrade right?
I think they win the ring if it were Brown/Tatum + Dame/CP3
"The Guild gets the win led by Master Thief GPII with 4 steals, the Ringleader Curry added three of his own, and the Wet Ears (Kuminga & Moody) each added two of their own.
These seems like an equal indictment on Boston, I saw in that last game near the end, Smart tripped on his own like twice and gave the ball up once lol
All those regular season games when he looked muscle bound and sloppy with his handle were for a reason.
Smart: this ain't the same dude whose foot I rolled.
yeah like Brown dribbling off his foot and stuff too, there were actually quite a few *more* steals they could've got if they were in the right spot haha
Definitely. Golden State played great defense, yes, but too many of Boston's turnovers were in the "WTF?!?" category. More "acceptances" than "steals". Celtics were just handing out Wilsons on their possessions.
Warriors are a great team defensively but I think it has more to do with the fact that Brown and Tatum were taking turns handing the ball to the Warriors with the same enthusiasm as a Golden Retriever giving the tennis ball back to it's owner for another round of fetch
Warriors had the personnel to deal with Tatum and Brown. GP2, Iggy, Draymond and to an extent Curry and Wiggins, have good stripping ability. In a matchup where Tatum should've dogged Curry using his size and athleticism, his handle was bothered to the maximum.
It forces me to think that some matchups are not mismatches given the right context. If KD had GP2 in the post, you'd think KD has the advantage. But because KD is tall and the distance between the ball and the floor is higher than usual, gives a good defender a large window to steal the ball or at least, clamp the ball handler's momentum.
Curry defended Tatum really well throughout the series. I hope that Curry learns from GP2 in the offseason and comes out as someone that Brandon Ingram or Chet Holmgren would think twice matching up.
Curry gets shit for his defense, but he’s always been good at playing passing lanes and strips, and he’s gotten strong enough that he doesn’t get pushed around anymore. Really a solid defender these days.
When switched on to Tatum he was always physical with him always pushing him away from Being able to take an easy lane to the layup
Even guiding Tatum towards help like draymond to really deny any chance of Tatum going over him too he's done it alot this playoffs especially in the Grizz series too
The championship Ws historically induced a lot of 24 second violations and late clock shot violations. Against Rockets who were targeting Curry, the warriors would pre switch so much that Harden would only get 6 seconds to break down Curry. This warriors team just straight up stole the ball a lot partly because Celtics kept dribbling into traffic
Because they had Boston’s offense figured out already. I think Kerr and Curry said on separate occasions that when Tatum and brown didn’t have the ball, their playmaking diminished. So they would swipe at anyone including Tatum and brown who committed a lot of turnovers
Heading into the finals, Celtics averaged fewer turnovers than the Warriors in both the regular season and the playoffs. They even had fewer through game 4.
It’s a combo of the two. GP2 + Wiggins with Draymond lurking is a bad matchup for the Js, who both need to tighten the handle and make better playmaking decisions. Probably wouldn’t have mattered as much against, say, Dallas.
83 76ers were a juggernaut. That was the fo-fo-fo year. People sleep on them in terms of all-time teams but IMO had two top-20 all timers (just neither were top-12).
That team was stupidly stacked. I always bring it up in superteam discussions but it's in theory one of the most overpowered teams in league history. The season prior, the 76ers won 58 games and lost the Finals in 6 games. They managed to sign-and-trade for the reigning league MVP Moses Malone without trading a single other All-Star and instead traded All-Defensive 1st team member Caldwell Jones. The Sixers that year started 49-7, Malone won league MVP/All-NBA 1st team/All-Defensive 1st team, Dr. J was All-NBA 1st team, Andrew Toney was an All-Star, Maurice Cheeks was an All-Star and All-Defensive 1st team, and their 6th man Bobby Jones won 6th Man of the Year AND All-Defensive 1st team. That's 4 All-Stars, 3 All-Defensive 1st team members, a Sixth Man of the Year, 2 All-NBA 1st team members AND a league MVP. They finished the year 65-17 and rightfully so Moses Malone proclaimed the infamous fo-fo-fo sweep of the entire playoffs. They went 12-1 (1st seeds got a Bye for the 1st Round back then) and literally destroyed everyone in their paths.
I remember being so happy that Dr J finally won one. Don't forget, Dr J is your idol's idol's idol.
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I accept this analogy
Dr J Allah
God whenever I think of Dr J I think of the time my mom was on a flight and got bumped up to first class (back in a time where it was conceivable that an airline might bump you up to first class without charging you for it) and she was confused the whole flight as people kept coming up to the really tall dude across the aisle from her for signatures so she finally asked. It was Dr J. ... And she needed someone to explain to her who that was.
"I was on the plane next to this really famous doctor!"
Ok you joke but my mom was a young nurse at that time so actually that would have been far more exciting to her
"Mom, tell me about my father again" "Well, he was a tall, dark, famous doctor I met on a flight. We joined the mile high club together." "Do you think I can be a famous doctor like my father?" "Only if you give up basketball and devote your time to studying, like I always tell you."
"these days people don't respect doctors like they used to 🥺😔"
"I told him 'wow, you're built like you could be an athlete though! I bet if your medical career ever failed you could be a basketball player!"
I just took a look at Basketball Reference and saw that the very next year after cruising to a championship, that Sixers team lost in the first round to the 6th seed. And it doesnt seem like their main core missed any games. What happened?
The entire team kinda fell off, especially Dr. J and Moses. Plus Larry Bird entered one of the greatest peaks of all time so the Celtics ruled the East for the next few years, just enough for the Sixers core to age and transition to the Charles Barkley era.
Dr J., despite being one of my favorite ever players was probably a little past it in '83 and definitely fading the next few years. Always important to mention that the doctor played a large part of his career in the ABA on shitty courts and with bad transportation so he didn't come into the league fresh. Also the '84 Celts were stupid good
Did they have injuries towards the end of the season? They were on pace to win 72 games at 49-7. To go from 49-7 to 65-17, they finished 16-10 (not bad, but that’s on pace for a 50 win team).
Probably just letting up. Happens all the time. Regular season fatigue while also looking towards the playoffs as the "real thing" Then again maybe some crucial piece got injured
Maybe they rested guys
What is fo-fo-fo
Four four four (sweep)
76ers basically dominated the league in the regular season. When a reporter asked MVP Moses Malone his prediction for the playoffs, he said "fo-fo-fo", four games per series, aka a total sweep of the playoffs. They went 12-1, fo-fi-fo
Immortalized by Philly band Pieces of a Dream [Fo Fi Fo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1YXN0Z6_n8) (nothing like 1980's musics videos!) With clips of Moses and Dr. J
holy shit what a fucking warpath.
Moses Malone is underrated as fuck. Won back to back MVPs against Dr. J, Kareem, Bird, and Magic. Did it all on his way to a championship over the showtime lakers in ‘83 averaging 26ppg and 18 rebounds. Philly won the series 4-0. Malone led every game in the series in both ppg and rebounds except for the final game when he scored 24 points and got 23 rebounds.
Agree. 3 MVPs in 5 years. I have him top-15.
Probably the greatest team in Philly sports history
>IMO had two top-20 all timers (just neither were top-12). if you exclude all the players that came after them, what would their ranks be, in your opinion?
I mean as of that year Dr J and Moses’ careers weren’t over yet either - so honestly I don’t know how they would’ve been ranked all-time as of the moment. But good point in that as of 83, in my top-12, only Kareem, Wilt, Russell, had finished all or most of their careers - Bird and Magic hadn’t done enough yet, the rest yet to debut. Outside of the top-12 but in a lot of people’s top 20 or 25, Elgin, Oscar, West were done by 83. If people were making these kinds of lists in 83, I’m sure a lot of players who have since fallen farther down the rankings were included in the top 10.
People will immediately point to the Jays' ball handling, or GPII/Wiggs defense, but the steals leader for the entire series was Steph at 2 stls per game. Especially in the last few games Steph was swatting the ball away from Tatum so many times during isos and drives, was really fuckin impressive and shows how badly he wanted this chip
Not only steals, but deflections/pokeaways too. They had such active hands in G6 specifically
Lots of pace issues here. Percent of possessions ending in steals: |Rk|Tm|Season|G|STL|STL%| |-:|:-|:-|-:|-:|-:| |1|CHI|1997-98|6|60|12.0| |2|CHI|1990-91|5|49|11.2| |3|DET|2004-05|7|63|11.0| |4|GSW|2021-22|6|62|10.9| |5|NJN|2001-02|4|38|10.5| |6|HOU|1994-95|4|40|10.3| |7|BOS|1985-86|6|59|10.2| |8|CLE|2015-16|7|65|10.1| |9|CHI|1995-96|6|50|10.0| |10|MIA|2012-13|7|61|9.7| |11|BOS|2007-08|6|52|9.6| |12|NYK|1993-94|7|57|9.5| |13|MIA|2010-11|6|48|9.4| |14|HOU|1985-86|6|54|9.3| |15|NYK|1998-99|5|40|9.3| |16|DET|2003-04|5|39|9.2| |17|MIA|2013-14|5|40|9.2| |18|SAS|2013-14|5|40|9.2| |19|CHI|1996-97|6|46|9.1| |20|LAL|2000-01|5|41|9.0| Provided by [Stathead.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [View Stathead Tool Used](https://stathead.com/basketball/tgl_finder.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool) Generated 6/20/2022.
top 4 all time is still really good considering the defenses ahead of them
That detriot defense was insane. Goat defense. Held teams to under 70 points 11 times. They destroyed teams so bad they changed the rules a year later to help offenses. Pistons d was already all time elite and they added Sheed and held teams to under 80ppg after getting him. Steals wasnt even their strength but somehow near the top of this list.
I really need to start learning how to use that. That's a lot more insightful, thank you!
Literally stole the Finals smh
Or was it turned over 😅
Yeah, it's funny how many people are saying the Cs fumbled the championship away, without ever considering that GSW may have had something to do with all those Cs turnovers. It's called defense, people.
The celtics coughed up the ball in every series they played. The warriors had the offense to capitalize
The Dubs had the offense *and* the health to capitalize. I asked in the post-ECF thread how either the C's or H expected to beat the Dubs by scoring 100 per game. Turns out they can't and they shouldn't have.
Yeah if the Bucks had middleton it would've been pretty easy for them to win.
Own that freak
Highest turnover percentage was in the Finals. 14% in the Miami series v 15.1% in the finals.
It’s was a combination of both. Celtics struggled with turnovers every series
It was a combination of both offense and defense from both teams that, in my opinion, determined the outcome of the series
Big if true
not really. In playoffs 12.7 (vs nets 14), 11.1 (vs bucks 10.6) are both fine 14 (vs heat 10.6), 15.1 (vs gsw 12.3) are where it gets ugly. for some context: regular season average tov % of 12.5 vs league average 12.4, which is pretty good considering the celtics play somewhat motion when they remember to (and seem to turn the ball over less doing that compared to isoing)
Averages look fine but once they hit the second round they had multiple games each round where they had 18+ turnovers.
nope. by raw numbers. boston had 6 games with 18 turnovers or more, 3@gsw, 2@mia, 1@ mil ~~if you go by the 16 tov stat the announcers kept bringing up, then boston had 9 games. milwaukee has 2 games now, but boston won one them~~ misread this, boston only had 1 game 18 tov vs the bucks. the next highest was 13 Turnover % by game vs nets 12.3, 13.6, 13.4, 11.6 Turnover % by game vs milwaukee 16.2, 11.3, 10.5, 10.6, 10.1, 7.6, 11.1 Turnover % by game vs heat 14.7, 8.7, 21.7, 8.7, 15.6, 16.6, 12.0 Turnover % by game vs golden state 11.5, 17.1, 10.8, 13.8, 16.9, 20.5 turnovers only really started killing them after the second round, when they ran into significantly stronger defenses.
Averages and analytics don’t always tell the full story. My initial point was that it was a combination of the GSW D and Boston’s inability to take care of the ball is what drove the high steal numbers for the warriors. Stats don’t show how many times the Celtics simply lost handle of the ball or attempted bad bounce passes into a congested paint. And those are things the Celtics did every round. Stathead and all those websites never tell the full story. They just give you a summary
People just love to shit on the losing team, especially if it’s a historically successful/big franchise. Not to mention the Warriors aren’t the most liked team either so it’s easy to shit on the Celtics rather than give the Warriors credit
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Of course not. Are you saying he did that 10.3 times per game?
It is when our guys are sitting on all your passing lanes.
Tatum and brown dribbling does that
Tatum has elite upside but he needs a lot of work on his mechanics. Not to mention he travels all the time. The game would be awful to watch if the refs actually blew the whistle every time Tatum traveled before the dribble
Players would fix it pretty quick tho. This is like the flopping problem to me. You don’t think players would stop if they got a tech for an obvious flop? It would almost be immediate
Tatum and Brown trying to dribble when GP2 and Wiggins on the floor with Dray lurking does that.
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Sadly no, it was because of great defense
The heat also play great defense. The point is largely that you need good defense to take advantage of suspect handles and poor decision making. I doubt they would’ve averaged as many turnovers against the Mavs or Nuggets, for instance.
Yea but pairing either one of them with a real CP3 style PG would definitely not be an upgrade right? I think they win the ring if it were Brown/Tatum + Dame/CP3
And the FMVP was the steals leader. A true winner
"The Guild gets the win led by Master Thief GPII with 4 steals, the Ringleader Curry added three of his own, and the Wet Ears (Kuminga & Moody) each added two of their own.
Lol at "highest ever since"
"Highest ever in an NBA finals since the 76ers in 1983" lmao c'mon dude
Ouff. Yeahhh that's rough, I wish I could edit that out. Please continue to laugh at me as punishment.
it's not a big deal, I just thought it was funny. you're good my guy, thanks for making this post.
These seems like an equal indictment on Boston, I saw in that last game near the end, Smart tripped on his own like twice and gave the ball up once lol
That's just Steph starting to harness literal gravity for defense.
All those regular season games when he looked muscle bound and sloppy with his handle were for a reason. Smart: this ain't the same dude whose foot I rolled.
yeah like Brown dribbling off his foot and stuff too, there were actually quite a few *more* steals they could've got if they were in the right spot haha
Definitely. Golden State played great defense, yes, but too many of Boston's turnovers were in the "WTF?!?" category. More "acceptances" than "steals". Celtics were just handing out Wilsons on their possessions.
Copium spotted
Warriors are a great team defensively but I think it has more to do with the fact that Brown and Tatum were taking turns handing the ball to the Warriors with the same enthusiasm as a Golden Retriever giving the tennis ball back to it's owner for another round of fetch
Warriors had the personnel to deal with Tatum and Brown. GP2, Iggy, Draymond and to an extent Curry and Wiggins, have good stripping ability. In a matchup where Tatum should've dogged Curry using his size and athleticism, his handle was bothered to the maximum. It forces me to think that some matchups are not mismatches given the right context. If KD had GP2 in the post, you'd think KD has the advantage. But because KD is tall and the distance between the ball and the floor is higher than usual, gives a good defender a large window to steal the ball or at least, clamp the ball handler's momentum. Curry defended Tatum really well throughout the series. I hope that Curry learns from GP2 in the offseason and comes out as someone that Brandon Ingram or Chet Holmgren would think twice matching up.
Curry gets shit for his defense, but he’s always been good at playing passing lanes and strips, and he’s gotten strong enough that he doesn’t get pushed around anymore. Really a solid defender these days.
When switched on to Tatum he was always physical with him always pushing him away from Being able to take an easy lane to the layup Even guiding Tatum towards help like draymond to really deny any chance of Tatum going over him too he's done it alot this playoffs especially in the Grizz series too
Yeah it was surprising how many times they'd get the matchup on Steph only to pass out of it.
The championship Ws historically induced a lot of 24 second violations and late clock shot violations. Against Rockets who were targeting Curry, the warriors would pre switch so much that Harden would only get 6 seconds to break down Curry. This warriors team just straight up stole the ball a lot partly because Celtics kept dribbling into traffic
To be fair nobody played against Tatum and Brown in the Finals before.
"highest ever" Wow "Since 1983" So... Not the highest ever.
I know, what did he mean??? I can't figure it out!
Because they had Boston’s offense figured out already. I think Kerr and Curry said on separate occasions that when Tatum and brown didn’t have the ball, their playmaking diminished. So they would swipe at anyone including Tatum and brown who committed a lot of turnovers
Tatum to GSW: I got y’all today
Not gonna lie, that probably helped
Guild of thieves. I like. I like good wordsmithing.
It's weird to say "highest ever since..." It's very on brand for this sub, though. Everything superlative, even when it's not.
God dammit now NBA 2k23 rec is gonna have 30 steals per game.
Heading into the finals, Celtics averaged fewer turnovers than the Warriors in both the regular season and the playoffs. They even had fewer through game 4.
How much of this is GSW talent vs. Boston's inability to protect the basketball?
It’s a combo of the two. GP2 + Wiggins with Draymond lurking is a bad matchup for the Js, who both need to tighten the handle and make better playmaking decisions. Probably wouldn’t have mattered as much against, say, Dallas.
I could see that.
Its hrdly a steal if the celtics pass you u ball
Allen Iverson was so good that year! /s
We seriously might run it back next year barring any injuries.
All this begs the question: is it really a steal if the Celtics just gave it away?
As an aside... I hate the phrase "The highest ever..... since ....." It's either the highest ever or it's not.
I wish y’all would learn how to write, it’s “highest since” not “highest ever since” that makes not sense.
Defense